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SnowBrigade
10-29-2009, 10:54 AM
Hello everyone,

List of new features (most of them requested and invented by you) to come in the next update.

I will add 'Done' when these features have been added and are working in our studio, and all that remains is to publish them on Steam.

- Multiplayer on-line coop. This will allow you to play coop with anyone with a Steam ID.(Done)

- Local coop. This is 2-player coop on the same machine. You can play either Player1: mouse and Player2: controller or Player1 and Player2 both use controllers (this makes the game feel almost console-like if you prefer to play like that)(Done)

- New Game Mode: Auto Perk. (Done) Allows you to create a list of perks which is saved between games. Whenever you level up, the game will automatically and intelligently upgrade you using the set of perks(modifiers) you defined. Allows you to play without having to pause the game for perk selection.

- New maps, especially focusing on barricade/defend the castle (In Progress now)

- Multiplayer gameplay mode: Anti-Perks. Disable your opponent by selecting perks which work against your opponent. (You will still have a selection of positive perks/modifiers for yourself to choose from as well, but anti-perks will be added to the list)

- New weapons. We propose to add the following six extra weapons to the game:


M4A1 Carbine Assault Rifle (Done)
M14 Assault Rifle
Heckler&Koch MP5 Submachine Gun (Done)
OC-14 Groza Grenade launcher + Assault Rifle combo
12 Gauge Super Shorty Shotgun (Done)
Beretta 93R Burst Fire (Done)
MP5 Submachine Gun (Done)


- New Perks/modifiers (still adding more but these are confirmed). These are all from perk ideas posted here on the forum.


Anarchist: Get a free grenade every 30 seconds. Optionally combine this with Remote Detonator and this perk can get you out of a bad situation very quickly;)

Weapon Station: Upgrades the Sentry Gun to a FLW-200 Weapon Station (Done)

Apocalypse: Doubles Wrath of God (Done)

Handicap (coop): Gives you 20% more zombie damage but your coop partner 20% less. Can be selected a maximum of 3 times.

Propane Nightmare: Increases the effectiveness of Gas Cannister explosions with zombies outside lethal blast range catching fire (Done)

Back To Back (coop): Reduces zombie damage when both players are within 6 feet/2 meters of each other.

Recharge (coop): Revive fallen coop players by standing over their body for 10 seconds without moving.

Proficiency: Reduces cooldown period (time between each attack) of Hand of God (Wrath of God, Apocalypse), Saw Blades, Venom (Headlock, Payload) Aftershock, Fuse Bolt, and Seekers by 10% (Requires experience level 10 or above) (Done)

Expertise: Doubles Proficiency to 20%. (Requires level 20 or above and Proficiency) (Done)

Mastery: Doubles Expertise for a total of 40%. (Requires level 30 or above and Proficiency and Expertise) (Done)


This is in addition to several Anti-Perks we're designing.

- New SP Achievements:


Boss Hunter (Done)

All 4 Deadly (Done)

Demolitions Expert (Done)

Grenadier (Done)


A list of coop achievements also coming up.

- New Powerups:


Rage: One shot, one kill for all zombies except bosses for duration of powerup + 25% extra damage to bosses. (Done)



Please post your comments here:)

CrankerR
10-29-2009, 02:14 PM
OMG CANT WAIT !!!! =D

dark-gio
10-29-2009, 02:36 PM
I was thinking about this game and when i get here.. BAM, NEWS!! :)
I love this new features.

I wonder if there will be another character for coop or it will be the same with different colors.

c3rebraL
10-29-2009, 11:08 PM
I've loved this game since the day it was released. Can't wait for all the new additions, thanks so much for your continued support for the game!

Dimi347
10-30-2009, 08:18 AM
I don't know if it's ok to ask but I'm so curious.

How do the updates improve the sales of this game? If you are not allowed to give us a number of sold copies ... can you tell us the rise in percentage?

I love the game, it's a nice timekiller and would love to hear that Diezelpower is growing due to the updates. Keep them coming. Can't wait for Coop :)

Sorry if this has been asked before and sorry for my crappy english

SnowBrigade
10-30-2009, 09:04 AM
Hello Dimi347, I think above all what the updates allow us to do is to keep sales going pretty continuous.

What I suspect normally happens is smaller games dropping off the radar rather quickly without an update once or twice a month.

We may actually do a quick update over the next few days introducing the new strategic gameplay mode (mentioned above). I think that's almost done and since it allows you to hand pick your perks, it adds a new angle to the game:)

Ohnoo
10-30-2009, 09:47 AM
Thats awesome, anti-perk mode:D

Hmmm,does anyone think that "Magnet" achievement is impossible to get? collect 10 rammers in one game? anyone have unlocked it?

SnowBrigade
10-31-2009, 08:18 AM
Hello Ohnoo, I will check the boards if Magnet has been unlocked. If it hasn't yet, (even though it is possible) then we should probably adjust it to a lower number. We're updating with a new gameplay mode around Monday, that would be a good time to include this if necessary. What's your current high in the number of rammers collected?

CaptainDingo
10-31-2009, 09:18 AM
Personally, my highest Rammer count is probably about 3 or 4.

Maybe I just have bad luck. :p

Ohnoo
10-31-2009, 09:32 AM
my highest was 5-6 rammers in one game, and i'm on top 3 on global leaderboards with 22633499 exp points, under the name "Galkafisher". After 20-25min power-ups dont drop very often so its very tough to collect all 10 of them.

SnowBrigade
10-31-2009, 09:50 AM
Hello Ohnoo, we've checked this since yesterday; you're right the frequency of powerups drops slowly over time, and collecting 10 Rammers is possible, but I agree it is too difficult by about 40% given that current high scores top out around 25 million. (which is already quite high!)

What we're doing is increasing the drop chance of a Rammer. I'm told that after checking the best options, we will drop a Rammer sometimes instead of health if your health is already over 50% (especially early in a game, you won't need health dropping if at 90-100% health anyway).

That way, you should get about 5+ extra Rammers when playing a 10+ million game, and then I assume it is definitely possible for multiple players to get the Magnet achievement;)

We're working on adding a few multiplayer achievements, so don't think it ends here:)

Also, this is the best time to tell us if you have any interesting single player achievements you'd like to see added!

And BTW, since we will update around Monday, the Magnet achievement update will be included also.

Ohnoo
10-31-2009, 10:58 AM
great news:D

Hmm about new achievements.How about..

Collect all perks in one game (very hard) (except deathclock perk, the one
that you die after 30sec)

Kill 250,000 zombies

Kill 40 Bosses in one game

SnowBrigade
10-31-2009, 11:20 AM
Hello Ohnoo, not bad.. but your suggestions are very hard:)

Collecting all perks: I think currently only a few people out of xx1000 who have the game can do that. But I agree this is a good achievement and I will get it included. It is clear some people can reach it!

Kill 250K zombies: it's a grinding perk, but many people seem to like those. I think currently we have a good mix of grinding perks versus interesting gamestyle perks, so I think this can be included as well.

Kill 40 Bosses: Let's make it 50, because looking at the boards some players are already getting 25+ boss kills. Since we are adding more Rammer pickups it should be possible to kill 50 of them. I will try myself, but I think it's a good achievement:D

I think we need to go and design some cool new icon pictures for the achievements..

Ohnoo
10-31-2009, 11:46 AM
yeah i know lol:D

50 bosses sure, why not, its harder:)

Hmm it is possible to add a leaderboard for achievements? You dont have to do it if its hard to add something like that.

Alixey
10-31-2009, 11:47 AM
I've just purchased today Nation Red, it's the best indie game i've ever seen so far on steam ;)
How about a meeting with developers in multiplayer once the update comes out? That would be nice. :cool:
Anyway thanks that you keep updated this game :D

masterjokin
10-31-2009, 07:08 PM
just thought id point out... on my thread here (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1003365) snow posted that they will be shooting for an update to add stratigic on nov 2nd..

SnowBrigade
11-01-2009, 04:31 AM
I've just purchased today Nation Red, it's the best indie game i've ever seen so far on steam ;)
How about a meeting with developers in multiplayer once the update comes out? That would be nice. :cool:
Anyway thanks that you keep updated this game :D

Good idea! I think that may very happen;)

masterjokin
11-01-2009, 04:58 AM
yeah. i posted a suggestion that they list the dev's on the leaderboards as a special color so we can see where they are in the game standings :P.. would be cool to lay the hurt on snow thought.. JK, i made a thread about getting more info on our favorite devs here (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=986650) dunno if snow saw it or not.. no one posted sadly..

Ohnoo
11-01-2009, 05:39 AM
I dont know if u like my achievements names ._.

"THE COLLECTOR" Collect all perks in one game
"TERMINATOR" Kill 250,000 Zombies
"WHO IS THE BOSS NOW" Kill 50 bosses in one game :)

SnowBrigade
11-01-2009, 05:56 AM
Hello Ohnoo, we're actually doing them now:) You'll be able to play for those new achievements Monday or Tuesday at the latest. Let's see which names will be used;)

Ohnoo
11-01-2009, 06:45 AM
you guys are very fast, i wasnt expecting them so soon, thats great:)

SnowBrigade
11-01-2009, 09:37 AM
We're also going to give you something else to kill. We just finished work on that. With the new Strategic gameplay mode, I think this will be a good update in between the Leaderboards and Coop!

invisiblejesus
11-01-2009, 03:57 PM
Is the coop patch going to add voice chat too? I won't be complaining if it doesn't, but if it does that'd be pretty sweet.

Dimi347
11-02-2009, 01:19 AM
Hello Dimi347, I think above all what the updates allow us to do is to keep sales going pretty continuous.

I love to hear that :)

BTW Is Diezelpower planing on doing other games? Or are you exhausted with all our beggings for more content ;) ?

masterjokin
11-02-2009, 01:53 AM
im sure they got there hands full making lots of gamers happy campers. lol. i wish they could do feature expanding dlc, like a dlc that added a whole story mode chapter and all that, like charge 2$ or so? they said all updates will be made for free though. all my steam friends think l4d 1 and 2 are valves gift from god and wont even try it.. its sad.

acetken
11-02-2009, 03:32 AM
I'd just like to encourage the team by saying I specifically bought the game BECAUSE of all of the support it has recieved. There's more than enough indies just dropping a game and running.

THANK YOU GUYS!

Robou
11-02-2009, 08:10 AM
You guys are doing a great job on this game. Thank you.

EnsignBlue
11-02-2009, 03:22 PM
How much more content are you planning on adding to Nation Red after the co-op update? Is that the end, minus bug patches and what not?

masterjokin
11-02-2009, 05:30 PM
i doubt it ensign. they have expressed a desire as well to make a mod package for the game. there is also alot of scenario's they could make for the game, plus im sure they will expanded to co-op and single player aspects of the game after co-op is officially added

Master_Odin
11-02-2009, 08:55 PM
Great job on Strategic Mode. It definitely changes how the game plays out now.

masterjokin
11-02-2009, 09:29 PM
i just had a killer idea, challenge mode, like the ones in portal, exept they are certian rule set and goals, like, no bosses spawn, you get all melee perks, no weapons or enhancements drop, survive for as long as you can, or min #### to complete, silver,gold, platinum.

and you can make leaderboards for this like for the survivor mode, and maybe a few acheivements..

SnowBrigade
11-03-2009, 01:57 AM
Hello masterjokin, I agree there's still scope for more leaderboards. Challenge mode could work.. We're going to look into this now.

Razze
11-03-2009, 07:46 AM
whats the strategy mode about?

and hows the progress on coop?

SnowBrigade
11-03-2009, 07:59 AM
Hello Razze, coop is mostly completed here in our studio; in a few days we'll start to move to testing it and creating a few more levels/maps for it.

Strategic Mode is unlocked when you complete the missions; unlike normal playing mode, you can select your perks at will (no more random perks), but you are limited to a maximum of 10 per game. (Unlocking new weapons doesn't count towards that maximum).

CaptainDingo
11-03-2009, 08:41 AM
Aye, to expand on SnowBrigade's description, in Strategic Mode, you will level up like normal. Every time you level up, you're presented with every perk in the game in one big list (except ones you already picked). You can level up 10 times.

Some people got confused about this and thought you picked 10 perks right from the start.

hwxlhrider
11-03-2009, 12:20 PM
I liked the game when I tried it steam,except "the demo" only had one map and it overwhelmed the map with zombies, and I said to myself "coop" mode would be cooler?Plus I don't care for role playing in a single player game. Nothings bad about it if the updates aren't just addons and coop games would be available, and more maps would be great too.

Turnkey
11-03-2009, 01:25 PM
Yea I Bought Nation Red this morning and have been playing it all day. I'm glad to see that you guys are updating this really great game. With the addition of Multiplayer co-op this game will even beat L4D (maybe 2!!?)

Shingy
11-03-2009, 01:54 PM
So a quick question about the multiplayer in progress, how many people will we be able to play with?
Will there be an option to have local multiplayer, adding a gamepad, adding another keyboard and mouse or osmeone using one half of the keyboard and someone else using another etc.
If there was an option for local would we be able to play online against others as well?

markblanco
11-03-2009, 03:03 PM
I'm enjoying the update and Steam Achievements! I wanted to bump my request for Robotron-Style control via Xbox360 Gamepad for windows support. Would love to see that at some point during the life of this game.

Keep up the great work!

Ohnoo
11-03-2009, 03:51 PM
About survival leaderboards._. how it possible for someone to survive for 23min and 58 sec, and kill only 8 zombies and without kicks? (kicks attacks kill zombies too)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4233/81615148.jpg

CaptainDingo
11-03-2009, 04:22 PM
Good question.

I don't want to run with an accusation, but I'm sure Nation Red isn't cheat-proof. Wouldn't surprise me if we started seeing cheaters topping the boards.

masterjokin
11-03-2009, 07:54 PM
if someone is verified as cheating they should take away there steam achievements and ban them from the leader boards and co-op. in my opinion if you cheat you aren't capable of playing with others... i'm sure that diezelpower will find a way to fix them though...

as a side note to all the co-op questions they stated that it will be in game, and its working in the studio, they just need to add maps and features, as for missing feature worries im sure that diezelpower will add anything thats agreeably missing from the feature set, i think there goal now is to get it out to us as fast as playability allows. and i have no doubt that more is to come.

i've posted about adding xbox controlls, similar to the ones you might see in live arcade games, and im sure the devs have it noted, i believe they even play to export it to xbox live even. several of us have talked about it here, but i think there working on making nation red a fully rounded and featured game before they start looking to port it to a console. right now the most asked for update is co-op, so they are pouring their best efforts into that right now, but im sure we will get gamepad support too later.

SnowBrigade
11-04-2009, 01:37 AM
Hello, yes unfortunately it's very hard to make a game completely cheat proof. Valve told us that this is one of the reasons they want to focus on leaderboards centered around Friends. You expect your friends won't cheat. BTW, there are some checks in place for leaderboards and unexplainable scores like the one you mentioned will of course be removed;)

hwxlhrider
11-04-2009, 07:21 AM
I see there are two Nation Red threads one for coop and one for the original release.
My newest observation while everyone is on the same page is, I got the game yesterday and playing it is like trying to google the www without a mouse pointer:confused:
I can't play this game when the crosshairs and the AI shooter keeps going off the map. Did the devs ever test it before they released it?I haven't looked for older games that can put that bug to shame but if I did I'm sure I could come up with more than one!

SnowBrigade
11-04-2009, 07:39 AM
Hello hwxlhrider, I am trying to understand what you're reporting but I have to admit that I haven't got a clue what you mean by the AI shooter goes off the map and having no mouse pointer? You mean the player character goes off the screen all the time? Please explain;)

TheSilverKnight
11-04-2009, 09:12 AM
I bought it yesterday, seemed kinda half finished and boring, but when i read this, my faith in this game has been renewed !

Noggin on Wheel
11-04-2009, 12:32 PM
hi snow
just wanted to add my thights on multiplayer co-op, now i know your going for online coop (which is awesome) but will there be local coop also? of course online coop is the major priority but i would love to see a local coop option, on a personal note there is nothing better than chilling out with some mates gettings some beers in and firing up a local coop game on..well..pretty much anything, Trine, CTR on the PSX, and lego star wars always go down a treat with the lads XD. sadly not many games support local multiplayer anymore as online multiplayer can bring together more people and create a larger player base (which means more for the devs and game studios). I think that nation red is a great arcadey shooter and gets soo many things right in my book and as nice as it is to be able to play games with my candain freind across the pond i find playing with other people there is just that little bit better ;P. also on a side note, we need a difficulty slider/selector for steam mode, would love 350 controller support for the game (a must if local polay is to be added), and steam mode should become the only play mode and have slider reserved only for practise mode (if it is not possible to implement in the current "steam mode".

hwxlhrider
11-04-2009, 12:48 PM
Hello hwxlhrider, I am trying to understand what you're reporting but I have to admit that I haven't got a clue what you mean by the AI shooter goes off the map and having no mouse pointer? You mean the player character goes off the screen all the time? Please explain;)
Thanks for understanding, I already have a support ticket with steam on a resolution issue in HL2 deathmatch and it's probably getting deleted because they are so backed up,so I don't think they're ready for this too!

Maneuvering on the map first I noticed the crosshairs get moved way off the map/screen. I don't know if its me or the game doing it. Because I'm trying hard to avoid the zombies!
It would help if I could at least see a small glow on the edge of my monitor so i can tell what side of the monitor its on.
And combine that with the shooter that can move out of my view and still be in the map, makes it really hard to stay at it with a slight sense of "I know what I'm doing wrong".
I mean the crosshairs don't stay close to the shooter, it moves like a dog that runs away after the leash breaks? lol Know what I mean? Is it supposed to do that?:confused:

TBbadmofo
11-04-2009, 01:20 PM
In coop mode is there going to be a random chance to buy a perk to bring your friends back to life after they die? Like if your the last one left and you keep leveling up and the perks are random to maybe some times see a revive perk to bring a friend or maybe even friends back. Or some way to come back to life like a timer or something. Because otherwise people are just going to leave right when they die.

masterjokin
11-04-2009, 03:45 PM
hwxlhrider, the crosshairs aren't bound to a certain distance from the character, you can move them all over the screen. and the character can move to the border of the screen, just try to remember what your doing and keep the crosshairs close to you and your persons away from the edges...

its all part of the skill of the game.

TBbadmofo
11-04-2009, 07:37 PM
On Strategic Mode could you add some kind of order to the list like Alphabetical order because I think its random everytime and takes awhile to find what I want.

Also just an idea, but maybe some kind of way to see which perks you have in all modes like maybe when you press tab or something. Because sometimes I play this to much I forget which perks I do and don't have this round and confuse it with a different round.

masterjokin
11-05-2009, 02:35 AM
Snow, and to all the others interested, captaindingo has started a co-op perks and achievements thread for us all, i thought i would point that out here sense most people read the stickies first. its here. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013825)

i hope to see you all there posting away, hopefully we will get some idea's into the game, and help the devs out as well in the process. and as a side note i saw snow say there would be a small patch this weekend. not sure whats in it, probly just minor bug fixing and balancing.

as a side note to snow and the devs, ive been playing threw, and i noticed several weapons have there words all in capitals.. like my post about the "ShotGun" there is others like "MineLayer" and the like in game, you might wana go threw the weapons and mods list and fix all these. some of them look ok like that, and in the case of MineLayer kinda help given the powerups small model. but others might not look as well?

SnowBrigade
11-05-2009, 02:54 AM
Hello TBbadmofo, sure we can make the list in alphabetic order in Strategic Mode, I'll see if we can get this included in a quick update before the weekend. A perk list you can call up should be possible as well;)

stop ruinin TF2
11-05-2009, 04:12 AM
- New maps, especially focusing on barricade/defend the castle

Hahaha nice! I had not seen this thread
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1014010

Lord Killmore
11-05-2009, 05:03 AM
hm i didnt see that defend the castle thingy till yesterday o.O
did they take my suggestion into consideration or did they get it from somewhere else xD

Lord Killmore
11-05-2009, 08:31 AM
btw i dunno if this was already mentioned sicne i didnt read through the whole topic but on which numbers of players are we speakin in coop?

2 overall or even more?

besides i would love to see a "drop weapon" feature in multiplayer so you can exchange weapons with your buddy ;)

SnowBrigade
11-05-2009, 08:39 AM
Hello Lord Killmore, initially coop will be 2 player. It really feels much better than loads of players. Already a lot happening on screen pretty fast and I think you'll easily lose track with 4+ people running around.

Two player coop also strengthens the buddy feel with a 'BackToBack' fighting style.

Lord Killmore
11-05-2009, 08:41 AM
yeah youre right on that
besides other stuff can always be added later may it be more players or mode or whatsoever ^^

for more players you would need quite bigger maps though .

...oh noes more thoughts of kinky multiplayer gamemodes just popped into my head >_<

CasualSax
11-05-2009, 10:58 AM
Another achievement idea:

ITSY BITSY TEENIE WEENIE: Win a mission at 800x600 resolution.

Ohnoo
11-05-2009, 11:25 AM
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3521/22471064.jpg
he is back lol

CaptainDingo
11-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Well that's annoying.

Lord Killmore
11-05-2009, 12:10 PM
yeah there are also some guys with something like 53000 kills or somethin on free mode. i mean srsly you cant survive that long as soon as you get to somethin like 4 k you get rushed from all sides like hell besides it would take hours to have such a score >_>

Ohnoo
11-05-2009, 01:00 PM
well , i'm 2nd (under the name Galkafisher) on free play right now, it took me 1 hour and 13 min to get that score. Last Breath perk is very useful, without it i would die alot earlier.

CaptainDingo
11-05-2009, 01:04 PM
Yeah I don't think any of the Free Play scores were cheated for. It's possible, just extremely hectic and you have to have been lucky and gotten good survival perks up to that point.

SnowBrigade
11-05-2009, 01:13 PM
True, apart from that one top player in Survival mode most/all other scores appear to be legit. Lord Killmore, I agree when you start playing you don't think it's possible but don't forget there are thousands of people playing at any one time.

And don't think it becomes easier as the game goes along. There are actually fewer and fewer powerup drops and more zombies. The initial game has about 60-75 on screen at any time, later on in Free Play you could be facing 100+ zombies simultaneously.

I am not that bad at Nation Red myself but I must admit that players like Ohnoo and CaptainDingo are amazingly good, actually better than we expected to see. Anything close to 10 million or over in Free Play..That's seriously good.

Mr_Fayce
11-05-2009, 05:23 PM
Anyone know if there will be dedicated server hosting for the up and coming coop dlc?

EnsignBlue
11-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Hey, so Nation Red just updated on my Steam Profile but I can't find a changelog anywhere. Anyone know what's new this time around?

TBbadmofo
11-05-2009, 06:36 PM
I don't know if yall meant to do this but I was playing in free mode and after I picked a perk theres a longish pause of when I can fire my weapon again.

Lord Killmore
11-05-2009, 06:38 PM
lol @ snow i know that i suck but thanks for pointing it out again :P

well sorry i didnt want to call anyone a cheater or somethin it was just really hard for me to believe how ppl could actually get such scores xD

CaptainDingo
11-05-2009, 06:41 PM
I don't know if yall meant to do this but I was playing in free mode and after I picked a perk theres a longish pause of when I can fire my weapon again.

It's happened for as long as I can remember. For about a second after picking a perk, can't attack.

Ohnoo
11-06-2009, 06:19 AM
i beat the cheater:), (he is the 2nd one on the list)
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3774/12765269.jpg

SnowBrigade
11-06-2009, 06:42 AM
Hello Ohnoo, yes I saw it too;) Well the problem the other player will continue to get it that since the score and the amount of kills needed doesn't fit, his score is likely to be automatically deleted every day.

(I think it got deleted yesterday, and the same thing may happen today)

hwxlhrider
11-06-2009, 06:47 AM
Deleted!!!!!!!LMAO

ZombieBunny
11-06-2009, 03:24 PM
Not a huge deal but you guys aren't adding local co op are you? If a buddy comes over it'd be cool to be able show them this awesomeness. I notice not many pc games let you play couch co op.

SnowBrigade
11-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Hello ZombieBunny, local and Steam coop is what we're working on as far as I know;)

PenPen
11-06-2009, 04:04 PM
- Multiplayer gameplay mode: Anti-Perks. Disable your opponent by selecting perks which work against your opponent. (You will still have a selection of positive perks/modifiers for yourself to choose from as well, but anti-perks will be added to the list)


: D

Its like seeing a child grow up.

kaden_sotek
11-07-2009, 11:12 AM
How about a sub-mode for survival mode which I like to think of as Romero mode? There wouldn't be any running zombies or boss zombies; however, the rest of the zombies would do more damage. Also, instead of the AK47, you'd just have the Glock.

TBbadmofo
11-07-2009, 02:58 PM
I thought you said there were updates coming this weekend. When will that be if there are any?

masterjokin
11-08-2009, 08:41 AM
they said they would try for the 8th or so, but even if they did update it today valve needs to make it go live. and that takes a day or 2. gabe is slow in his old age... :P

Lord Killmore
11-08-2009, 09:42 AM
so you decided on the M14 or M14 EBR now ? ^^
and i see you didnt take the G36 too bad :P
anyway cant wait for the update .
got an eta on the release of it maybe?


btw its called "M4A1 Carbine" not "M4A1 CarAbine" ^^


ps : still waitin for pm XDD

CrankerR
11-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Defibrillator...that's from l4d2 =P

SnowBrigade
11-08-2009, 09:52 AM
Hello Lord Killmore, yes I thought you would recognize most of the new weapons;) Your suggestions were good, we added another today, the OC-14 Groza as suggested by someone. Looks good, special forces weapon, being Russian-designed it's bound to have a different impact and feel from say, an M4A1.

Regarding the M14, my personal tendency would be to go for the EBR, but don't forget for the general gamer, they may not know the difference? Main problem probably will be getting the sounds..

pm coming up, I already asked so they're probably just working on it.

SnowBrigade
11-08-2009, 09:56 AM
Hello CrankerR, that's just the name as it was suggested on the board. You're probably right and it has been changed so there's no overlap. I pity the team having to make a game in 2020 not using any name used before in any game:)

Lord Killmore
11-08-2009, 10:21 AM
Hey snow

yeah sorry for bothering you with it ^^

well i still prefer the "ordinary" M14
so i guess you mean youll add the normal M14 since its more known than the EBR

so youre trying to do the advantages /disadvantage stuff more indepth now too since youll have multiple assault rifles and all?

and yeah for the sounds , i dunno if you do them from scratch on an Audio programm or you take them from somewhere else like a studio or somethin .
the best way is always to find a shooting range or somethin like that and actually record the sounds and edit them later on ^^

and lol at those russians :P
cant they design a gun of their own for once xD
first they copied the AK 47 design from the germans and that OC-14 is definatly copied from the british SA80 or the L85A1/A2xD

i could be mean and start askin /discuss what version of the 92FS you ppl can add xD there are tons of different versions of it ^^
anyway . cant wait for the update =D

SnowBrigade
11-08-2009, 10:38 AM
Hello Lord Killmore, agreed. Recording shooting range sounds is by far the best option, but that may mean delaying the update until we have that set up.

Our plan was/is to release the new weapons and new player perks as an intermediate update while we polish off the multiplayer coop. It's always best to keep releasing new gameplay in the meantime;)

But true, the M14 needs good sounds otherwise adding it is lost on everyone who knows the weapon. I am going to have to think about what the quickest way to get these gunshot fx;)

Lord Killmore
11-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Hey Snow,

well isnt it like that with all weapons?if the sounds arent right the weapon just doesnt feel good ^^
and ppl who know the M14 and ever fired it/heard it knows how awesum it sounds and feels =D

yean i agree on that one since i guess polishing /finalizing coop mode will still take some time ( sadly ^^ )

well one method would be buying it from sound fx studios who actually got sounds from the real deal
but oh well...im sure you guys will figure a way out so itll be best for all of us ^^

masterjokin
11-08-2009, 07:55 PM
i wouldn't mind waited for sound updates, or holds on certian weapons or perks/mods due to quality reasons. im sure everyone else here wouldn't nay you for it.

TSO
11-08-2009, 08:09 PM
A possible future issue I'd like to quickly ask about.

Are there plans for when there are many more perks and power ups to explain or make all their exact abilities quickly understood by new players?

And a quick idea. Have more zombies or bosses spawn faster or spread around as a handicap for newer perk(s).

masterjokin
11-08-2009, 08:10 PM
i know there are some cd's that you can buy for game dev;ing that are royalty free and contain sounds like this. not sure how well done they are. i wounder if they could get someone who owns a rifle to fire it for them to record. i've seen people on youtube showing off there military rifles, im sure they could find someone like this, or a company that would be willing to record the sounds if sent the proper equipment and an honorable mention?

Smokindan50
11-08-2009, 09:43 PM
A possible future issue I'd like to quickly ask about.

Are there plans for when there are many more perks and power ups to explain or make all their exact abilities quickly understood by new players?

And a quick idea. Have more zombies or bosses spawn faster or spread around as a handicap for newer perk(s).

I think it'd be cool to have a perk/powerup index accessible from the main menu which has the list and accompanying description. Maybe a weapons index, too?

Lord Killmore
11-09-2009, 06:41 AM
i wounder if they could get someone who owns a rifle to fire it for them to record...

well the thing is in my oppinion

1. its always "bad" if a dev team has to count on other ppl for help sort of

2. if it isnt done "right "with the right equipment and on the right surroundings the sound qualitiy will be quite bad and also "wrong" and makes it hard to edit ^^


but im sure they know what theyre doin and well get some kickass sounds...YOU BETTER GET THEM KICKASS!! xD

masterjokin
11-09-2009, 02:00 PM
well, i looked up where they are based. and there not in exactly the most gun friendly places on earth... so those where my thoughts to save cash.

Lord Killmore
11-12-2009, 10:09 AM
especially the americans huh :P
well ill let myself be surprised what you ppl do im sure itll be all fine =D

masterjokin
11-14-2009, 07:10 PM
i think the past updates, and overall dev interaction speaks in bounds to the quality that diezelpower is capable of, and im sure that if things are a bit off, they will fix it. thought i doubt that there will be much of a quality issue when it comes to models or sounds, based on past releases.

EnsignBlue
11-16-2009, 04:33 PM
I think it'd be cool to have a perk/powerup index accessible from the main menu which has the list and accompanying description. Maybe a weapons index, too?

Seconded. An "Encyclopedia" option would be really cool, just so you can use it to examine all aspects of the game so you can plan for your next matches and find out new things to try.

TBbadmofo
11-16-2009, 11:31 PM
So since this thread is about coop about how long is it going to take before we see any coop?

Smokindan50
11-17-2009, 02:21 AM
I think the devs were thinking about releasing a little bit of stuff in single player this week and beta testing the co-op stuff next week with release the week after. So perhaps, 3 weeks-ish? That's just a really broad guestimate, though. I'm sure SnowBrigade can clear it up.

I'd rather they get the quality right anyway instead of rushing out. I do love the little updates with new perks and features like the perk list but a big ♥♥♥ update is also awesome and must be done right.

SnowBrigade
11-17-2009, 07:38 AM
Hello Smokeindan50, you're roughly correct.

As soon as we iron out remaining coop issues here, we will ask Steam to do a Beta in about two weeks. Beta shouldn't last more than a week or so and then we do the proper release.

In the meantime we want to do an update over the next 7 days with 5 new Achievements, new weapons, perks, a new gamemode Auto-Perk and a new game style Barricade/Defend the Castle.

I've just updated the sticky with more detail.

Rhylos
11-17-2009, 08:21 AM
...my achievements?

SnowBrigade
11-17-2009, 08:43 AM
Hello Rhylos, they are;) And we've just completed adding the Proficiency, Expertise and Mastery Perks as well. Sticky is updated.

We'll try to get these out as a Steam update within the next 5-7 days together with some new weapons, perks, gameplay modes to soften the coop (Beta) wait.

Rhylos
11-17-2009, 08:47 AM
Awesome! So where's my cut of the profits?

SnowBrigade
11-17-2009, 10:15 AM
Awesome! So where's my cut of the profits?

I'm glad you said 'profits' there instead of 'revenue'. Phew..

Seriously it is great to get so many good and workable suggestions for gameplay from the forum. If we feel the ideas will work we'll always try to make them playable within 7-10 days.

Achievements are quicker for us to add than new weapons or new zombies because they don't need new 3D models etc.

Next update should be really nice; new weapons, new achievements and powerups and two new gameplay modes: Barricade defense and Auto-Perk. I hope that will tie us over until coop only a few weeks later.

ZelDerX
11-17-2009, 11:17 AM
I'm glad you said 'profits' there instead of 'revenue'. Phew..

Seriously it is great to get so many good and workable suggestions for gameplay from the forum. If we feel the ideas will work we'll always try to make them playable within 7-10 days.

Achievements are quicker for us to add than new weapons or new zombies because they don't need new 3D models etc.

Next update should be really nice; new weapons, new achievements and powerups and two new gameplay modes: Barricade defense and Auto-Perk. I hope that will tie us over until coop only a few weeks later.

Snow i got a question that repeat how the co-op\pvp will work ?

is it like borderlands\MW2 That a PERSON host ?

or will it have servers ?

and if its person host can i play with poeple that arent in my friend list ?

roman2838
11-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Yeah, snow would be awesome. Footsteps and poor visibility could at some atmosphere and tension... as I think about it, there are some weather effects that could add to the gameplay. Maybe an option that enables random weather incidents or constant, specific weather effects like snow, heavy rain or fog.
Maybe I should make a new post about it as a suggestion sometime tomorrow :)

TBbadmofo
11-17-2009, 06:43 PM
Hello Smokeindan50, you're roughly correct.

As soon as we iron out remaining coop issues here, we will ask Steam to do a Beta in about two weeks. Beta shouldn't last more than a week or so and then we do the proper release.

In the meantime we want to do an update over the next 7 days with 5 new Achievements, new weapons, perks, a new gamemode Auto-Perk and a new game style Barricade/Defend the Castle.

I've just updated the sticky with more detail.

So will we all be able to join this beta?

masterjokin
11-17-2009, 06:55 PM
I'm glad you said 'profits' there instead of 'revenue'. Phew..

Seriously it is great to get so many good and workable suggestions for gameplay from the forum. If we feel the ideas will work we'll always try to make them playable within 7-10 days.

Achievements are quicker for us to add than new weapons or new zombies because they don't need new 3D models etc.

Next update should be really nice; new weapons, new achievements and powerups and two new gameplay modes: Barricade defense and Auto-Perk. I hope that will tie us over until coop only a few weeks later.

i wait as long as it takes, and i don't complain about setbacks. atleast we make a diffrence and our idea's get into the game, soon ill be able to go "look, auto-perk, i thought that up". the level of support you've given us if leaps and bounds above what is called for. and thanks to you, you have turned this game, into our game.

so i doubt anyone will complain if you take a week or 2 on implementing things that require assets, or longer, especially on things that require coding and animations. but we are all eager to beta, and help out as soon as we can.

im sure soon as barricade hits we will see a spike in posts as well. lol. i cant wait to see what the co-op beta will bring out in posts, idea's, and the lot. i remember when i suggested barricade, and its been a long wait i think, but if i can wait on a mode that i suggested, i think everyone else can :)

SnowBrigade
11-18-2009, 03:01 AM
Snow i got a question that repeat how the co-op\pvp will work ?

is it like borderlands\MW2 That a PERSON host ?

or will it have servers ?

and if its person host can i play with poeple that arent in my friend list ?

Hello ZelDerX, it will be peer-peer. Since the game is relatively 'small' I doubt servers is a realistic option.

You should be able to play against/with anyone with a Steam ID (of course they'll to accept your request).

SnowBrigade
11-18-2009, 03:03 AM
Hello TBbadmofo, the Beta should be available to everyone if Valve sets it up as such. (because of the system they're using it's not accessible to people who only have the demo installed).

Lord Killmore
11-18-2009, 03:45 AM
Hello snow.
sooo well have somethin like a Multiplayer tab and then a Join and Host option then?
and on join it well basicly searches for other ppl that are waitin and hostin?

SnowBrigade
11-18-2009, 10:14 AM
Hello Lord Killmore, that's correct.

By the way we're using the SteamWorks multiplayer SDK, so apart from servers we're using similar code as Valve is using for L4D/2.

The only difference is we have 50-100 zombies on screen at any one time, which slightly complicates the multiplayer code part. We need to make sure everyone playing is seeing the exact same 'group of enemies' on screen:eek:

Lord Killmore
11-18-2009, 01:19 PM
hm yeah could be also troublesome if the players go out of synch cause of lag or somethin . well you guys will figure a way how to make it work ^^

SnowBrigade
11-19-2009, 09:56 AM
I've changed the original post and included the word 'Done' when that feature has been completed and added here in our studio. That means any upcoming upgrade/patch will include those additions for you (usually within one week).

It's also a way to keep up with what we're adding day to day;)

Rhylos
11-19-2009, 10:46 AM
Woooo I can't wait to get my achievements.

And they're my achievements! No one else is allowed to get them!

Lord Killmore
11-20-2009, 04:07 PM
awww you took the 92FS out :( too bad

SnowBrigade
11-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Hello Lord Killmore, don't worry the Beretta is still in the pipeline just not for this upcoming update, it'll be the update following (coop:)

We have to make sure the weapons handle differently and need to fine tune the Beretta more, so we replaced it with another requested weapon: the 12 Gauge Super Shorty. It has a wide but limited kill range and it handles different from the M1014 Shotgun currently in the game. It's a great weapon, very effective in close-quarter combat and will fill the gap until the Beretta arrives:)

Lord Killmore
11-20-2009, 11:08 PM
Hello snow ,

good too hear ^^
yeah the 12 gauge sounds nice , if i remember right i suggested a sawn off shotgun back in my topic too xD anyway cant wait for more youre doin a great job and the rest of the devs too of course =D

Master_Odin
11-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Looking very nice there SnowBrigade. Can't wait to take the new weapons out for a spin.

killedlove
11-23-2009, 08:20 AM
coop? i'll buy this game now !

Fatdude
12-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Looking forward to Coop and a sale that comes with that update :D

KrazyKain
12-05-2009, 03:38 AM
Hello Lord Killmore, that's correct.

By the way we're using the SteamWorks multiplayer SDK, so apart from servers we're using similar code as Valve is using for L4D/2.

The only difference is we have 50-100 zombies on screen at any one time, which slightly complicates the multiplayer code part. We need to make sure everyone playing is seeing the exact same 'group of enemies' on screen:eek:



does this mean anyone who bought NR from D2D or Gamersgate is screwed and wont get any of the multiplayer?

TBbadmofo
12-05-2009, 02:29 PM
No he said steamworks sdk not source sdk which means you'd only have to have steam for multiplayer to work.

KrazyKain
12-05-2009, 05:15 PM
so steam works doesnt need a steam version to work? i dont really no the details but i figured steamworks would run on steam

SnowBrigade
12-06-2009, 04:31 AM
Hello, well some of the features we're adding rely on Steamworks (achievements, leaderboards, coop over Steam).

Those features (incl. coop) are not going to work with non-Steam versions of the game (from GamersGate, D2D)

For one other portals won't even want to have Steamworks included.. that's why Modern Warfare 2 was boycotted by GamersGate and Direct2Drive;)

Also when you launch the game Steam needs to 'know/see' that you own it so it will allow you to register achievements, access leaderboards, etc. There is no way for Steam to do this unless other portals sell copies with Steamworks built in, which is something they do not want to do.

So we basically have to develop two versions of the game: one for Steam and one for the rest.

Extra game features which do not rely on Steamworks such as Barricade Mode are of course possible and will be available outside Steam.

KrazyKain
12-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Hello, well some of the features we're adding rely on Steamworks (achievements, leaderboards, coop over Steam).

Those features (incl. coop) are not going to work with non-Steam versions of the game (from GamersGate, D2D)

For one other portals won't even want to have Steamworks included.. that's why Modern Warfare 2 was boycotted by GamersGate and Direct2Drive;)

Also when you launch the game Steam needs to 'know/see' that you own it so it will allow you to register achievements, access leaderboards, etc. There is no way for Steam to do this unless other portals sell copies with Steamworks built in, which is something they do not want to do.

So we basically have to develop two versions of the game: one for Steam and one for the rest.

Extra game features which do not rely on Steamworks such as Barricade Mode are of course possible and will be available outside Steam.
I hate to say this.. but i feel ripped off, I dont mean to troll or sound like a disgruntled customer, it's just... i obviously now wish i knew that the gamersgate version was a 'lite' version so to speak. It's obvious you never intended for this (i'm assuming) but suddenly found some tools on steam you had to take full advanatage of.. which i fully respect, but this of course results in certain customers feeling very abondoned. Sure fort mode sounds awesmoe (and I am genuinly looking forward to it) but the final push for me to buy the game was the promise of co-op...

You have to understand my position here.. I hold independant game designers in the utmost highest regard so i truly have alot of respect for you, but I just feel if your going to focus the big features on steam.. then I think you owe it to potential buyers to try and get the gamersgate and d2d versions off the market... I do appreciate you explaining the case and not leaving me with a 'your ♥♥♥♥ed'

TBbadmofo
12-07-2009, 12:06 AM
You shouldn't feel ripped off you did buy the game knowing it didn't have coop or multiplayer. It's just a added bonus that came later in the works. Making a coop version for outside of steam would take entirely much longer seeing as how they are using a prebuilt source for multiplayer via steam. Game developers sell their games at stores and on steam and people get bonuses from using the steam version all the time over using the store copy it's not like this is something new.

SnowBrigade
12-07-2009, 01:23 AM
Hello KrazyKain, well people here on Steam asked for multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards and more game features.

We said we will add those. When people then go buy on Gamersgate instead after reading about the above on the Steam forum, true, it gets beyond our control especially now that Gamersgate/D2D refuse to include Steamworks.

There are good reasons for us to use Steamworks so that players can see their achievements and leaderboards, etc. which is what they asked for in the first place. I don't see what else we could do. We only discussed new features here with players on this Steam forum.

Again, whether D2D and GamersGate want Steamworks included is not under our control.

We're constantly adding new free features (new weapons, gameplay modes, etc. which Gamersgate customers also get. And a lot of those ideas were suggested here by Steam players) but you feel 'ripped off' anyway?

It would be easier for us not to add anything new to avoid possible complaints..

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 06:18 AM
Hello KrazyKain, well people here on Steam asked for multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards and more game features.

We said we will add those. When people then go buy on Gamersgate instead after reading about the above on the Steam forum, true, it gets beyond our control especially now that Gamersgate/D2D refuse to include Steamworks.

There are good reasons for us to use Steamworks so that players can see their achievements and leaderboards, etc. which is what they asked for in the first place. I don't see what else we could do. We only discussed new features here with players on this Steam forum.

Again, whether D2D and GamersGate want Steamworks included is not under our control.

We're constantly adding new free features (new weapons, gameplay modes, etc. which Gamersgate customers also get. And a lot of those ideas were suggested here by Steam players) but you feel 'ripped off' anyway?



at the very least it would make sense that the other versions get some content that steam doesnt. I understand steam users are going to think "hey thats not fair, if it CAN be implimented it should" and to some extent i agree with them... but there has to be some sort of balance here.

It would be easier for us not to add anything new to avoid possible complaints..


Now thats just being unreasonable. I can respect that what your doing is free, but in the end we paid as much as everyone else, and no where were we informed that the game we are getting will have half the features of the steam version. even steam itself only advertizes a few extra weapons and acheivments over the other versions.


I will repeat here, I do NOT wish to troll or sound disgruntled. but in the end, we paid as much as everyone else for the same game, but we did not get the same game, we got a lite version of the game... I mean heck, it's not like some of us bought a wii version and some bought the 360 fully featured version... whats gaming coming to if we cant even have a standard for a single game on the same platform?!

SnowBrigade
12-07-2009, 06:33 AM
Hello KrazyKain, it is impossible to have the same game on Steam and GamersGate, simply because Steam has more features which GamersGate doesn't have. There are no achievements, no leaderboards, no steam cloud and no SteamWorks multiplayer features.

we paid as much as everyone else for the same game, but we did not get the same game, we got a lite version

GamersGate will get the exact same version without the SteamWorks-related additions because it is impossible for us to do, and GamersGate will refuse it anyway. BTW, why 'we'? You are the only person who has brought this up.

the game will have half the features of the steam version

That's very exaggerated. We are adding features to Steam because we can, and players want us to. We can't say: we won't add this because GamersGate won't support it.

Also, a lot of new features were created and suggested by Steam players which will benefit the GamersGate version of the game as well.

I still don't understand why if the Steam features are important to you, you get the game on GamersGate knowing they don't support it? They cut Modern Warfare out for the same reason.

at the very least it would make sense that the other versions get some content that steam doesnt

Anything like that would not be very popular here on Steam..

whats gaming coming to if we cant even have a standard for a single game on the same platform?!

Steam offers more at this moment for PC gaming, so Steam games often have more features. This really isn't something down to us. Many games have extras on Steam, Nation Red isn't the only game. We cannot control the advantages of Steam or the disadvantages of GamersGate.

In the end I don't see how we can provide the exact same game, it is technically impossible for any developer to do when Steam offers more to play with.

Skaery
12-07-2009, 07:24 AM
I have no clue if this is possible, but what about a "activate on Steam" option? Not forcing you to use Steam, but the possibility of activating it through a key.
A few games have this option, but since it's very few I'm guessing there's a block somewhere.

On another note, don't see those versions as "lite" versions, but see the Steam version as a "SteamWorks" version or "Extended" version. It's not like the games were completely different at launch.
For instance, I buy game X. At some point the dev release an add-on Y to the game, and they bundle the two at the same price as I paid for X. I do not expect to get Y for free even though I paid the same (though, here the dev are nice and actually give the Y for free if you purchased it on Steam - this has happened before and is not something new!).

SnowBrigade
12-07-2009, 07:29 AM
Hello Skaery, I think GamersGate and D2D from now refuse to carry any game with SteamWorks support.

It's not like the games were completely different at launch

Exactly. Nation Red was basically the same game on Steam and GamersGate; when the game became popular here and people asked more features, some of them Steam-specific, we added them best we could.

Speaking for myself, if I like the 'exclusive' Steam features for a game I would get the game through Steam and not take any risk buying it elsewhere knowing those extras may not be included.

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 07:54 AM
fine, i'm obviously the minority here, and nobody cares about the minority.

'we' are everyone who bought a nonsteam version, i might be the only person who brought this up but beleive me theres more.

how was I supposed to know the other ersions dont get extras included? i wasnt, you dont have a central information website which can tell me this, infact the nationred website makes no mention of this steam super version. so how the heck are we supposed to just 'know' that this is the difinitive version to have?

you can keep making excuses, and the community can keep agreeing with you, because it's pretty easy to do so when you have the full version simply because you just happend to open the right door.

Obviously trying to bring my point across here is futile. I tried to to approach you with respect and maturity but you've more or less told me "we only care about our steam community and nobody else"

SnowBrigade
12-07-2009, 08:19 AM
Hello KrazyKain,

We do care about GamersGate otherwise we wouldn't be updating the game there this week. And it is updated with features designed by the Steam community which should be positive for GamersGate.

And you do get extras: The same new gameplay modes, weapons, perks, etc. will all be available to GamersGate as well. Without the Steam community, you wouldn't get all these ideas and updates.

The only thing is that Steamworks-related code cannot be given as extras to GamersGate players.

Valve is competing with them and using Steamworks as a means to get developers to add more features to Steam games. Valve wants you to buy Nation Red here and not on GamersGate, and adding leaderboards, etc. to Nation Red here is one of the ways to entice you to do that..

If we could offer the same achievements, coop, leaderboards over GamersGate we would but they have no facility for it. It is not because we don't want to, and we didn't advertise those features on GamersGate.

Sorry if the difference between games confused you. For the last two months we've been trying to add as much as possible to the game so your comments were a little surprising, that's all. I guess I completely lost the ability to deal with criticism;)

Ohnoo
12-07-2009, 09:19 AM
Just buy the game on steam its just 9$ , its like ordering a pizza, its not big deal.

Valve and DiezelPower are the best companys i have ever seen, they update their games very regularly and ALL updates are free.

I havent seen any other indie game that costs 9$ to be updated so often really. Have you?

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 09:38 AM
Hello KrazyKain,

We do care about GamersGate otherwise we wouldn't be updating the game there this week. And it is updated with features designed by the Steam community which should be positive for GamersGate.. right?

And you do get extras: The same new gameplay modes, weapons, perks, etc. will all be available to GamersGate as well.

Only Steamworks-related code cannot be given as extras to GamersGate.

Valve is competing with them and using Steamworks as a means to get developers to add more features to Steam games. I still feel strange trying to explain that since I assumed that was obvious. More features in Steam games is what SteamWorks is supposed to do. Valve wants you to buy Nation Red here and not on GamersGate, and adding leaderboards, etc. to Nation Red here is one of the ways to entice you to do that..

If we could offer the same achievements, coop, leaderboards over GamersGate we would. But they have no facility for it. It is not because we don't want to, and we didn't advertise those features on GamersGate either.

For the last two months we've been trying to add as much as possible to the game so your comments were a little surprising, that's all. I guess I completely lost the ability to deal with criticism;)


ok, let me just make my points clear

Correct me if im wrong, but you do not have a central information center regarding your game.. only teh steam forums... right? if thats true.. then obviously, your suggestions, comments and feedback are coming from steam

second of all, yes i fully understand steamworks, but hiding behind the excuse of 'it makes steam competitive' excuse doesnt sit well with me. Steamworks is for the developers, if a developer chooses to use steamworks, thats up to them, and props to you for using it.. but.. if you are going to use steamworks for some very obviously important features, then sell your game exclusivly on steam!

You're supposed to treat customers equally, so if you give steam users an exlusive feature, then its only fair that others get something to, Yes you say this may not go well with the steam users but what about everyone else?

I know you dont advertize the features on gamersgate and d2d but thats really not the point here, atleast set up a central information forum where we could have learnt this before purchasing.

TSO
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
You're supposed to treat customers equally, so if you give steam users an exlusive feature, then its only fair that others get something to, Yes you say this may not go well with the steam users but what about everyone else?

It doesn't feel like it when all us steam users agree with the dev. Yes it's unfair that you got a 'lite' version poorly labeled or explained. Maybe it didn't pop into mind that you could go to the forum just before purchase and figure out details. Who has time for that?

Creating a online community and severs and programs to track cheaters, high scores. Starts to press a developer on skills and resources.

The price tag alone explains this game wasn't done to support everyone. It was to reach out to those who can afford it and still enjoy upgraded arcade experience.

But from the Dev's perspective.

Steam members gathered together and wanted to provide feedback for future Weapons, Modes, tweaks. this would not only improve steam versions as the Dev said, those basic features could be transferred to other versions sold on less supported systems.

(I was pissed off when PS3 Fallout 3 never got DLC but I understand that PC gets the advantages for a reason. and I'd have to wait and pay for the time taken to change all the code for a PS3 system. I didn't do it and it sucked but I know how PS3 F***s the developers about it.)

Those same additions help improve sales, create a learning experience for whats fun, and wasn't time consuming to code additions.

Steam provided a community feed back and the dev took advantage of it to hear the (yes majority) of people out.

You can't always treat all customers equal because some will ask for a 1 shot killing machine gun, while others will take a straw and some peas to fight the horde.

I think the co-op and leader boards is returning the favor for new additions to the community that provided it. The feature was available and ready. They community asked for it. And Dev only needed a few key strokes to let them have it.

Stick around and maybe provide feedback for less supported versions and heck. I'll pay for your steam version with my meager money saving up for Left 4 dead 2...

wedge119
12-07-2009, 12:02 PM
I have no clue if this is possible, but what about a "activate on Steam" option? Not forcing you to use Steam, but the possibility of activating it through a key.
A few games have this option, but since it's very few I'm guessing there's a block somewhere.

On another note, don't see those versions as "lite" versions, but see the Steam version as a "SteamWorks" version or "Extended" version. It's not like the games were completely different at launch.
For instance, I buy game X. At some point the dev release an add-on Y to the game, and they bundle the two at the same price as I paid for X. I do not expect to get Y for free even though I paid the same (though, here the dev are nice and actually give the Y for free if you purchased it on Steam - this has happened before and is not something new!).

I was just about to suggest this. Great idea.

TBbadmofo
12-07-2009, 06:06 PM
Why would steam allow you to activate a game that they didn't recieve money for? That wouldn't be smart for steam and steam would have to be the ones to make that activation not DiezelPower. When you buy from steam you are also buying games that have the opportunity to use Steam tools. If gamersgate provided these tools, which they wouldn't because they're not a community, then I'm sure DiezelPower would use them.It's common knowledge if you've heard of steam that steam allows the release of more downloadable content. This isn't DLC, but it's practically the same thing sice it uses tools from steam. Their main forum is steam, so it would make sense that steam would be the better place to buy it.

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 09:58 PM
ok so i've slept it over, calmed down, and now will make one final attempt to get everyone to see my logic here.

Point a)
So, to everyone else.. i.e. the steam community...

You have taken the time to carefully point out to me, that we all purchased the same 'vanilla version' of the game correct? that what you are getting is nothing more then a free goodwill gesture from the developers that is by no means necessary, and therefore I should not condemn them, for not also receiving this... correct? I think that's it... you are right...

So, now, to Snowbrigade.. you said, that exclusive content on non steam versions would not make the steam community happy, did you not? now, refer to what i just said to the steam community... clearly it would be hypocritical of these people to complain about an exclusive goodwill gesture to us (yes us, not me, i'm not the only d2d/gg client) when they have more or less told me i should be happy with the version i have got.

Point b)
If i buy the steam version... what do I do with the GG version? it is in every way inferiour to the steam version. In order for me to buy the steam version I need either a refund for my GG version, and we know that's never going to happen, OR a reason to have both versions... whats that reason? exclusive content... (and lets be realistic, nobody's giving refunds to all d2d/gg customers, so it boils down to the reason to own both)

point c)
Yeah... The steam community has been the most helpful voice so far, with suggestion and feedback... That's because they are the only voice, GG/D2D dont have a voice.

So to sum it up... If i have a reason to own both, I will buy the steam version. Give us that reason by giving us an exclusive feature... and it has to be a good one, and secondly, set up a central forum where ALL your customers can discuss your game, not just the steam community.


surely you can see my logic here?

EnsignBlue
12-07-2009, 10:41 PM
The thing is simple: Diezel Power released their game, and then as they went to develop it further began increasingly relying more and more on Steam as a platform for their new content, due a lot to the incredible convenience Steam offers and the fact that the majority of Nation Red owners are Steam purchasers.

Thus, by their reliance on Steam, they have inadvertently made it impossible for non-Steam customers to utilize all the new content. It's like TF2 for the XBox, although significantly less severe.

Now this is of course made non-Steam purchasers unhappy, and the way some people have been defending the state of affairs is wrong. Saying "just be happy with what you have" is wrong -- they shelled out just as much money as the Steam purchasers did (and in many cases more since a lot of people, myself included, got Nation Red at the 30% off sale), and there was no indication prior to purchase that the version they were buying was incomplete and lesser. It's like if you buy a game from EB Games only to find out that Electronics Boutique has exclusive rights to distributing an included expansion pack.

Saying "the Steam community suggested the ideas so they deserve it more" is also silly. For one, Steam's position in the Nation Red community did allow us the privilege of being able to influence the design; I can certainly point out perks or powerups in the game that were my idea or something I supported, and a lot of Steam users can do the same. So to say that you also DESERVE all the new additions as well is to miss the entire gift we had in the first place, a gift that I've never seen in any other game community -- namely, getting to actively choose the way the game develops. Second, claiming ownership is just childish -- we're all adults, right? There is no reason for mindless selfishness in the slightest.

So on those fronts there is no grounds for any superiority claims.

Now the true issue here is the co-op, achievements, and leaderboards, all of which utilize SteamWorks technologies and are therefore inherently Steam-exclusive. Sadly, there is nothing to be done, and that's certainly not Diezel Power's fault -- they have pledged to carry over as much content as they possibly can to purchasers from other distribution platforms -- it's just simple capitalism at work. Every distributor wants you to buy from their platform, so their not going to support games that have such a heavy insistence on the usage of other distributors, and Steam isn't going to want activation codes for other platforms since it does them no good to spend money providing a service to people who aren't even their customers in the first place and are in fact their competitor's customers.

Now I know Defense Grid: The Awakening (another great game BTW with a developer worth supporting) got away it, so maybe Nation Red can too if it can use its small indie game guise to sneak under the radars. Perhaps Diezel Power could shoot Hidden Path Entertainment an email asking how they negotiated it or something? I think D2D's issue is mainly with games that require Steam, and since Nation Red doesn't it should be fine. Then I guess DiezelPower gives Steam a cut of their D2D profits and they then allow D2D products to be put onto Steam. I believe that's how Defense Grid did it. I am unsure what Gamersgate will do, however.

So I can sympathize with people who are angry about not receiving the content everybody else did, but sadly there's nothing that can be done or could've been done without just throwing the content out altogether, which does no one any good at all. So don't blame it on Diezel Power, these guys are doing the best that they can, blame it on industry competitivity, because at the end of the day that's why you don't have the content Steam purchasers do.

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 11:13 PM
You know how like.. final fantasy used to be on nintendo, then they moved to sony.. and recently released remakes of the classics on the ds as a sort of 'hey sorry nintendo fans... it was a choice we had to make, but heres something just to show you we still appreciate you'

thats sorta what i'm asking for here.. doesnt have to be as big as co-op.. but some mode that will make it worth owning 2 versions..2 slightly different versions, not just a 'good version' and 'less features version'

if you can give us that, i swear i'll buy the steam version and personally gift it to a couple of people who also have the gamersgate version.

Liliith
12-07-2009, 11:26 PM
I still can't believe what people are capable to do because of lousy 10$. You have probably totally missed the fact that this is an indie studio and you are the only one complaining here.
The support of this game is far beyond common standards and this dev studio is something extraordinary as far as listening to the community and enchancing the game go.
So wipe your tears and buy it from Steam. The number and quality of updates have already made it worth far more than stupid 10 dollars.

Kaese
12-07-2009, 11:27 PM
Where did this "you owe me" mentality come from?
I read that everyday on the whole Steamforum, "you owe us updates" or "lets force them to make x".
Noone owes you anything these days in the gaming industry, you could even buy a totally broken game that never gets any update and the publishers/devs would get away with it.
If i remember right, even at launch(or a little later) the Steamversion was advertised having lots of more and exclusive stuff. If you really want to get the version which might some day be the one better supported, its Steam and it usually is always Steam.
As i am somewhat of an Indiedeveloper myself, i can fully understand that they use Steamworks API for their online code.
If they would want to implement online code from a totally different framework it would take ages and way to many hours of work. Lets face it, its a <10$ game, you cant expect them to build everything from scratch for free. I am sure if the other distribution services offered something along the lines of Steamworks they would try to make it possible on those versions at well. Even with Steamworks i guess its alot of work to do, while you dont have to do friends/browser/networking code and so on yourself, you still need to build a game around it beeing exciting in coop. Diezel Power is already among some of the most respected Indie developers, everyone is excited to see whats coming next(2.5 sidescroller O).
That said, if you want to change the way it is you could try reaching Gamersgate, tho i dont think that will help at all.

As for now, Coop isnt even out. So just some patience, i am sure there will be another deal when it comes out(hopefully not more then 30%, dont sell yourself below value) and you can snatch another copy. Its a few coffee/beer/smokes only in the end.
And saying "Give gamersgate something exclusive too! wuahh wuahh" just makes you look ignorant, like stated a few thousand times its not about bordering other services out, its about what is there and whats not. AFAIK Gamersgate doesnt provide anything to developers.
If it was a 50$ game i could fully understand your point here, but seeing as it will be probably available for 5$ when coop is out, that just looks cheap.

KrazyKain
12-07-2009, 11:45 PM
You people just dont understand do you? it's not about the money. And I would appreciate it if we kept things civil here, i've not insulted anyone.

It's not about the 10 dollars its the simple fact that picking your shop is a gamble.. it shouldnt be. And ofcourse i'm the only one complaining, this is the steam forums, where everybody who bought it bought the 'good' version and is happy. if there was a central forum that had everyone who bought the game on it from anywhere, you can damn well bet i will NOT be the only one.

And for that reason i just give up... you are right.. these are the steam forums and because of that everyone's happy and too closed minded to even TRY to see it from anyone elses point of view (except ensignblue, thanks for that). so frankly I give up.. go ahead, pretend that customers beyond your precious steam community dont exist, and that our complaints dont matter, because obviously nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥.. i've tried being calm but now I just give up, so I hope your happy.

Liliith
12-07-2009, 11:56 PM
This is just a childish behaviour. As one of the fellow posters pointed out I would understand this if we were talking about big budget 50 euro game. But < 10$ game? This is ridiculous.
Do you really think they have resources to make everyone happy? Coop is bound to Steamworks, that's a fact and you can't do anything about it. This game wasn't supposed to have coop in the first place you realize this right? It is only a good will of the devs it is being added.

But seriously wanting a small indie company (prolly on tight budget) to make a special content for every selling platform to satisfy your needs, that's just laughable.

SnowBrigade
12-08-2009, 01:51 AM
Hello KrazyKain, there isn't a 'good' and a 'lite' version of the game. Nation Red is identical wherever you buy it from but Steam has additional exclusives on top of that because Steam gives developers tools to do so. GamersGate doesn't offer that. Not to us as developers and not to you as a customer.

You're obviously active on Steam forums, you read about these Steam features here before buying, you say you understand SteamWorks and want the features but then you go and buy on GamersGate instead? That is confusing.

If you value Steam's features, community, leaderboards, extras, etc. it is a good choice to buy games here on Steam. As people point out, it's common knowledge. If you buy games on GamersGate, you clearly may not have access to some or all of Steam's features.

Right now Steam offers more features. It has nothing to do with not caring about GamersGate.

As for your request for a GamersGate exclusive version: as soon as GamersGate offers developers something exclusive to play with and add to games, I'm sure you'll start to see that happen really quick. Since this isn't the case now, there is no technological reason why we shouldn't give Steam users 100% of all game features.

If we add some special gameplay mode or perks or weapons only for GamersGate, we'll get players here asking why they don't have access to those and in reality, there's no reason why they shouldn't.

In the end this comes down to what Steam offers versus GamersGate but we will add as many features to the GamersGate version as possible. Every single addition which doesn't require SteamWorks will be available to you.

At this moment the only two features you don't have are Steam leaderboards and achievements, that's it so I disagree with your exaggerated statement that the GamersGate version is 'inferior in every way'. There are dozens of games with exclusive Steam features, I don't see why this suddenly surprised you.

In the meantime if you have suggestions for improving the game please let us know.

Lord Killmore
12-08-2009, 07:18 AM
hm i still dont get what the fuss is about , anybody mind telling me whats the big difference of the steam version and the "Other" one ?

Skaery
12-08-2009, 07:35 AM
hm i still dont get what the fuss is about , anybody mind telling me whats the big difference of the steam version and the "Other" one ?
The "other" one doesn't have leaderboards, achievements, and it won't have coop.

TSO
12-08-2009, 09:48 AM
All the points have been covered and what demands can be met made clear.
Start a boycott if your stubborn enough.

TBbadmofo
12-08-2009, 11:15 AM
On another note away from this subject, can the update news be kept updated so we can easily see what has been updated?

rh10031994
12-08-2009, 04:42 PM
@KrazyKain:
I am sure that Diezel Power would gladly add in the Steam-exclusive features to their games distributed by D2D/GG, but D2D/GG do not provide them the proper software to add in features only available in the Steam version. It isn't their fault whatsoever, Steam just had the proper tools that allowed them to add in multiplayer and a number of other features.
For the D2D/GG versions, they added in what they could - in fact, they added in everything they could that the Steam version had when they were able to. It isn't their fault; D2D/GG did not provide them with the tools necessary to incorporate multiplayer gameplay, but Steam did, so Steam gets multiplayer.

Hawkb
12-09-2009, 03:45 AM
I've been wondering if there will be any editing software released in the future, like map making, importing new mission or models, ...?

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 04:13 AM
Hello Hawkb, yes modding tools are planned. The timeline for new additions we're following:

1. achievements + leaderboards
2. new perk playing modes
3. barricade mode + new weapons
4. coop + new weapons
5. modding tools

Right now we've reached somewhere between 3. and 4.

B3RS3RK
12-09-2009, 04:31 AM
I got a quick Question about Coop, didnt find anything about that yet:

How Many Players will be max?2 Player Coop or will 4 Player also be possible?Thanks for answering.
Greets

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 04:57 AM
Hello B3RS3RK, it will be 2-player coop and 2-player anti-perk gameplay. It may be possible to add more players later but only if this makes the gameplay better.

masterjokin
12-09-2009, 05:10 AM
2v2 barricade, and anti-perk barricade snowbrigade?

masterjokin
12-09-2009, 05:13 AM
snow, i had an idea, why not see if you could get valve to let them upgrade there cd key to a steamworks key for like 2$ or 3$ ?

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 08:24 AM
Hello masterjokin, that's a kind idea but in the end Steam and GamersGate are competitors. If Steam allows one person to update their D2D or GG game to Steam for a few dollars, millions of people could then ask the same for any game, especially if they got those games cheaper elsewhere.

Suppose game X costs 10 Dollars during a GamersGate sale while it's 20 on Steam. Customer comes to Steam saying: give me a Steam copy for 2-3 Dollars.

Steam would only receive a fraction of the profit that GamersGate got while having to provide the same service. Then GamersGate would need to know about the upgrade, deactivate the original game (not possible usually), otherwise the customer gets a second copy for 2-3 Dollars. I can see a lot of gifting happening:)

Steam would make much more by selling the same game on Steam themselves. This is why they add value in providing Leaderboards, Achievements, Steam multiplayer.. So it makes sense that if you like those extras, buy your games on Steam.

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Let us try to keep the thread about the game's features and not about the advantages or disadvantages of buying the game on Steam vs. GamersGate, etc.

If someone feels unfair that Steam has features like Achievements, Leaderboards and SteamWorks Coop, there is nothing any developer can do about that. GamersGate can add these features if they wanted to and spends the time and resources to implement them.

Liliith
12-09-2009, 08:49 AM
So when is the update going live? I thought it would be yesterday or today but still no changes.

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 08:52 AM
Hello Liliith, Valve usually updates games around 5PM Pacific Time, meaning just after midnight European time and lunchtime in Aus/NZ. I'll double-check to be sure.

TBbadmofo
12-09-2009, 01:32 PM
Can the Update News be kept updated?

SnowBrigade
12-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Hello TBbadmofo, we will ask Valve to update the game news. We can't update that news ourselves:(

But in any case I will post the complete update notes here tomorrow. That will include the new jump fatigue, new fortress achievement, etc.

masterjokin
12-10-2009, 02:03 AM
but i think this offically makes nation red the most updated game on steam.

btw snow, the turrets dont seem to fire now. they just stay facing forward mostly... side to side they dont shoot... and also. i had an axe zombie spawn during a wait period..

Jmb301530
12-10-2009, 01:54 PM
Dammit jump fatigue? Well there goes my high score! Lol.

Hello TBbadmofo, we will ask Valve to update the game news. We can't update that news ourselves:(

But in any case I will post the complete update notes here tomorrow. That will include the new jump fatigue, new fortress achievement, etc.

MrB
12-10-2009, 03:49 PM
but i think this offically makes nation red the most updated game on steam.



Really? It has beaten Team Fortress 2? :)

ZombieBunny
12-10-2009, 06:10 PM
So any chance of adding a little more time in between each wave like 5-10 more seconds???

SnowBrigade
12-11-2009, 01:00 AM
Hello ZombieBunny, yes that's no problem; we'll increase it by at least 5 seconds in the next update.

Rhylos
12-11-2009, 07:36 AM
Hey Snow, when are we getting the update where you can move while attacking with a melee weapon? I want my achievement to be:

Knight of Rhylos: Kill 2000 enemies with the machete in a single game

artimus2015
12-11-2009, 11:52 AM
The only complaint I have is that the replenishment powerup still counts as a perk, even though it doesn't decrease the number of perks you can achieve at level-up.

Just saying, it'd be nice to have a break at leveling up when going for the 1000 enemies achievement.

Suomis
12-11-2009, 01:25 PM
One thing Id like, is some kind of free play, with a HUGE map, I mean so that it would take alot of time to reach the border, I think that the current map size is quite small.

B3RS3RK
12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
Thats something Id wish for Coop, and maybe Increase the current map size for singleplayer too, but just slightly.

TSO
12-11-2009, 01:51 PM
The only complaint I have is that the replenishment powerup still counts as a perk, even though it doesn't decrease the number of perks you can achieve at level-up.


Not sure what your sayin but I was thinking that perk could be expanded on for maybe more health from health powerups and similar perks. Like slip stream or something that trigger bullet time occasionally.

Liliith
12-11-2009, 05:10 PM
I would like to know if there will be (optional) friendly fire included in coop. I would appreciate this option.

artimus2015
12-13-2009, 05:50 PM
Not sure what your sayin but I was thinking that perk could be expanded on for maybe more health from health powerups and similar perks. Like slip stream or something that trigger bullet time occasionally.

There's an achievement "kill 1000 zombies without picking up a perk." So, when you level up, you can't choose a perk from the list. You know how you can only choose 10 perks in strategic? When you pick "replenish" that number doesn't decrease. Yet, when you choose replenish, you can't get the trophy because it's technically a perk.

What I'm saying is to make it so you can choose replenish when you level up, and still be able to get that achievement.

SnowBrigade
12-14-2009, 03:24 AM
I would like to know if there will be (optional) friendly fire included in coop. I would appreciate this option.

Hello Litiith, friendly fire is no problem for us to add (as an option during coop games). It will be included.

SnowBrigade
12-14-2009, 03:28 AM
There's an achievement "kill 1000 zombies without picking up a perk." What I'm saying is to make it so you can choose replenish when you level up, and still be able to get that achievement.

Hello artimus2015, we can do that, although like you say technically it is a perk. It will make ToughGuy a little easier since you can refill your heath at least once. But if there are no objections, then we can add it.

SnowBrigade
12-14-2009, 03:30 AM
One thing Id like, is some kind of free play, with a HUGE map, I mean so that it would take alot of time to reach the border, I think that the current map size is quite small.

Hello Suomis, we're adding a couple of new maps for coop and will increase the freeplay map as well. Don't know if it will be 'huge' since zombies may end up chasing you for hours:D

We'll playtest some map sizes to see how big we can go.

Fatdude
12-14-2009, 05:51 AM
Still looking forward to 2-3-4 player coop and even maybe some 4 player pack or something + a sale for solo game etc.

LT.Schaffer
12-14-2009, 11:55 AM
two things i think need to be changed please.

1.When playing Barricade mode you should not lose just because you barricade is breached[have instead that once you die it ends]
cause it's hard to keep track of every side when defending.

2.Please make it so you only take damage when actually hit by a zombie[cause right now i take damage just by brushing by a zombie]

Thank you for your time.

Love the game&support BTW :cool:

B3RS3RK
12-14-2009, 12:08 PM
two things i think need to be changed please.

1.When playing Barricade mode you should not lose just because you barricade is breached[have instead that once you die it ends]
cause it's hard to keep track of every side when defending.

2.Please make it so you only take damage when actually hit by a zombie[cause right now i take damage just by brushing by a zombie]

Thank you for your time.

Love the game&support BTW :cool:



1, Would totally defeat the Purpose of Barricade Mode.It would basically be a Free Play map with this.
And, Come on, its not that hard to watch 3 Zombie-Spawns!

2. You were hit by a Zombie, the Health just takes time to go down, that was often mentioned before and I agree its kind of annoying because you sometimes feel like you lose health without getting hit.

LT.Schaffer
12-14-2009, 01:31 PM
Fair Enough.

But i feel that when your defending against Zombies you should not Auto Die the moment they Pass the barrier.

B3RS3RK
12-14-2009, 01:35 PM
Yeah thats something I dont really like, too.Maybe they could make some "Health Points" For the Barricade so each zombie takes one health(Maybe 3 Health altogether?I dont know)?

LT.Schaffer
12-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Yeah or have it so the barriers are in such a way that the zombies have to destroy them to get to the player instead of walking between them.

So like you said the barriers have a health bar so you can see how long before they collapse.

SnowBrigade
12-14-2009, 01:50 PM
Hello LT.Schaffer,

Please make it so you only take damage when actually hit by a zombie[cause right now i take damage just by brushing by a zombie

We're adjusting that in the next update; you're not hurt by brushing against a zombie, what's happening is your health doesn't immediately decrease when you're hit, it happens slower so it sometimes seems you're losing health a second or so after being hit. But it will be made faster so it's a lot more obvious.

the zombies have to destroy the barriers

That's possible for us to add. We'll look into that. Although destroying solid concrete blast blocks by hand would normally take a very, very long time:D These are the same things they use for protection against car bombs.

B3RS3RK
12-14-2009, 02:12 PM
How about making just SOME of the Barriers breakable and give the Breakable ones a different skin so they actually look like Barriers Survivors would make up Quick from different things lying around to reinforce the Actual Wall?

TSO
12-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Could it be that every zombie that passes by takes 1/4 health?

I get the feeling the health bar is the same as a reload bar just put sideways and only progressed when 'damage' is taken. Couldn't make a health count from 100 or something instead? =P

LT.Schaffer
12-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Hello LT.Schaffer,



We're adjusting that in the next update; you're not hurt by brushing against a zombie, what's happening is your health doesn't immediately decrease when you're hit, it happens slower so it sometimes seems you're losing health a second or so after being hit. But it will be made faster so it's a lot more obvious.



That's possible for us to add. We'll look into that. Although destroying solid concrete blast blocks by hand would normally take a very, very long time:D These are the same things they use for protection against car bombs.

Thanks, i hope the feedback helps.

ZombieBunny
12-19-2009, 10:20 AM
I have a question about barricade mode in general right now:

when you guys first released barricade mode the sentry turrets would shoot in front AND the two incoming waves from the SIDES so, my question is are you going to make it so the sentry guns shoot the sides too again or just leave them only shooting the zombies coming in through the front?

I only ask because I can't seem to see all the zombies and a lot of the time I'll miss one and not know about it and then fail.

Also if you are not near the back of the barricades by the other turrets do they shoot? Because the zombie stragglers aren't getting shot by them when I'm not back there. (or at least I think)

Thanks Snow!

TSO
12-19-2009, 10:33 AM
Also if you are not near the back of the barricades by the other turrets do they shoot? Because the zombie stragglers aren't getting shot by them when I'm not back there. (or at least I think)

Thanks Snow!

Yes they shoot. IF they are in range. I've seen many MANY times where the gun trail is crossing the whole middle of barricade as the zombie walks right by the breach.

And if they are just a few steps toward the center (perhaps from a moment of following your character) They will be out of gun range and more or less walk right by the turrets.

cl_hulksmash
12-23-2009, 01:45 PM
Sorry... didn't feel like sifting through 13 pages, but is the coop going to be online? Thanks. :)

SnowBrigade
12-23-2009, 01:49 PM
Sorry... didn't feel like sifting through 13 pages, but is the coop going to be online? Thanks. :)

Hello cl_hulksmash, yes you'll be able to play against or coop with anyone with a Steam ID.

LockerOfWecs
12-23-2009, 11:42 PM
Hello cl_hulksmash, yes you'll be able to play against or coop with anyone with a Steam ID.

so it is live right now?

SnowBrigade
12-24-2009, 08:18 AM
Hello LockerOfWecs, we plan to release a beta for multiplayer over the next 7-10 days and follow it with the actual release probably 2 weeks after that.

Valve will set up the Beta to be easy to access, basically you just start Steam with a command line we'll post on this forum and then instead of the 'regular' game starting, it will start the beta.

Apart from testing the multiplayer itself, we need a Beta since it will allow us to get player's feedback on the difficulty level. We will then create special coop leaderboards off that.

If this is the first time on the forum, there are a lot of posts but basically when we released Nation Red a few months ago, we had requests for: Adding achievements, leaderboards (done in October), new perks and perk selection methods (November), Barricade Mode, new zombie types, more achievements (now being done in December), and multiplayer (also now being done).

acare84
12-24-2009, 01:47 PM
Hello LockerOfWecs, we plan to release a beta for multiplayer over the next 7-10 days and follow it with the actual release probably 2 weeks after that.

Valve will set up the Beta to be easy to access, basically you just start Steam with a command line we'll post on this forum and then instead of the 'regular' game starting, it will start the beta.

Apart from testing the multiplayer itself, we need a Beta since it will allow us to get player's feedback on the difficulty level. We will then create special coop leaderboards off that.

If this is the first time on the forum, there are a lot of posts but basically when we released Nation Red a few months ago, we had requests for: Adding achievements, leaderboards (done in October), new perks and perk selection methods (November), Barricade Mode, new zombie types, more achievements (now being done in December), and multiplayer (also now being done).

Great to see the devs that listens gamers and support their games. I love you guys, every devs should be just like you. Happy holidays. :)

Kailieann
12-25-2009, 11:07 AM
When the co-op update is released, will we be able to give out guest passes so our friends can try it?

SnowBrigade
12-25-2009, 02:31 PM
Hello Kailieann, setting up a guest pass system will be up to Valve; we'll need to ask them. No idea if they want to reserve that for their 'special' games, so this is one thing I can't confirm now - I'll post back here.

lemmingzappa
12-27-2009, 07:32 AM
I'm looking forward to the updates !

MrXGamer
01-02-2010, 07:25 PM
I haven't read about this and not sure if it's asked before, but are we getting Co-op offline support? Two players on single screen. It's very possible, just don't allow the screen to move if players run in different direction - ya know, old school gaming. ;)

One can use gamepad and other can be on KB/M. I've seen games support this - such as Trine.
I hope this is in!

SnowBrigade
01-03-2010, 01:35 AM
Are we getting Co-op offline support? Two players on single screen. It's very possible, just don't allow the screen to move if players run in different direction - ya know, old school gaming. ;)

One can use gamepad and other can be on KB/M.

Hello MrXGamer, definitely yes. In fact as soon as we added 360 controller support we immediately started work on offline coop since it was the obvious thing. We need to add a couple of menu options for it, etc. but you can expect it within days of the controller support update (which is Mon/Tue I hope when Valve comes in from the holidays;)

TheSilverKnight
01-03-2010, 05:42 PM
Sounds Good

TBbadmofo
01-07-2010, 10:55 PM
So what's the ETA of coop?

SpikedRocker
01-08-2010, 03:09 AM
We should see the local version with intergrating the gamepad for the second player any day now. they've be slowly updating things quietly . we hope a full push possibly today. as far as an online multiplayer, forbidding and problems occuring in the local co-op we should see that in a week or 2, hopefully.

TBbadmofo
01-09-2010, 01:26 AM
Well local coop would make me quiet happy, getting very eager :D

TSO
01-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Hope someone can capture some gameplay cuz I don't have anyone for local co-op except my self >.>... don't feel like mastering that trick just yet...

CrankerR
01-11-2010, 04:50 AM
I love the super shotty ^^

SpikedRocker
01-11-2010, 12:03 PM
Looks like Valve is working on the update now. The achievements page was updated. Wiki page has been updated as well.

Vohn_exel
01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Hope someone can capture some gameplay cuz I don't have anyone for local co-op except my self >.>... don't feel like mastering that trick just yet...

Haha yeah...although maybe I'll do that just so I have a decoy, unless we both lose when one of us loses, though that would suck :P.

SnowBrigade
01-17-2010, 10:15 AM
Hello everyone, the latest update:

Local coop seems to be working very nicely so that is definitely going out to you next week. We'll bundle it with some new zombies as well.

Coop (local or not) will also have its own leaderboards so you can show off your team skills. Plus we'll add special coop achievements. Coop opens up some nice achievement ideas..

We're also adding more single player achievements regarding the new zombie hostiles, so if you're a single player achievement hunter, you'll have more to do!

Then if there are no issues reported by you, we'll release the net coop Beta soon after. This means play with/against any player with a Steam ID.

Coop really changes the gameplay, you can cover your coop player, revive him/her, take on boss zombies together to kill them faster (Two new boss zombies are coming up, The Brawler and The Comrade), choose an effective weapon combination, kill hostiles to leave some powerups for your coop player, etc. etc. Plus you can both work towards achievements or that coop leaderboard high score:)

I'll post back as soon as local coop goes live.

Quick
01-17-2010, 10:49 AM
omg, I can't wait! ;) :D

Hawkb
01-17-2010, 10:50 AM
How will online coop be working?
Will you only be able to play with friends, or also with random players?

SnowBrigade
01-20-2010, 09:35 AM
Hello Hawkb, any player with a SteamID can be invited (as long as they own the game of course); they can then accept or decline to play coop.

So it's not just limited to Friends. Plus we'll add more features to coop as we get your suggestions.

BTW Local coop is now done and should be available over the next 24 hours. Full coop will follow if there are no major issues found.

Quick
01-20-2010, 11:40 AM
Hello SnowBrigade,

How many players can play in one server?

Fatdude
01-20-2010, 01:46 PM
I wish that the online coop will go up to 8 players with bigger map and more ppl means more zombies style game like in killing floor.Also some different map seetings like inside a store or such would be great and bigger default maps !!

EnsignBlue
01-20-2010, 04:43 PM
I wish that the online coop will go up to 8 players with bigger map and more ppl means more zombies style game like in killing floor.Also some different map seetings like inside a store or such would be great and bigger default maps !!

Eight player Nation Red wouldn't be half as fun as you think.

Quick
01-20-2010, 10:57 PM
At least 4 players would be enough?

SpikedRocker
01-21-2010, 02:42 AM
I think with our current levels/maps 2 players are more than enough. If we get some bigger maps i could see expanding to more players but with the more players depending on how its setup it could be laggier. That is one thing that pushed me away from Zero Gear. It had one player run as host of a server while playing and unless you had a beast of an internet connection any more than 3 it would lag like hell. A dedicated server is a must for servers that expect to run over 3 players.

DarkWolf2
01-21-2010, 05:33 AM
Hey SnowBrigade, How's the big update on Barricade coming? Is it a bit like The Last Stand gameplay, or anything other compareable experience?

I was also thinking of perks in (realistic mode) barricade mode that not only helped an individual but also upgrades the base. Say, for every 3 or so levels or some other system, you get the option to buy a Base perk. I think that Serveral tiers would be best. From the small snare traps and make-shift walls, to the more imposing (AI?) persistant sentry gun(s) and so forth!

Fatdude
01-21-2010, 07:05 AM
Well i was thinking 8 player online coop like the 32 player server in tf2.You cant select it in game but you can increase it to that much with changing ini files/using console commands.4 players would be more balanced but 8 players would also be chaotic fun :)

B3RS3RK
01-21-2010, 09:21 AM
The Only Thing an 8-Players NR game would be is: LAG

CaptainDingo
01-21-2010, 09:32 AM
Wouldn't have to be lag if instead of increasing the zombie count you increased their individual toughness.

B3RS3RK
01-21-2010, 09:46 AM
Wouldn't have to be lag if instead of increasing the zombie count you increased their individual toughness.

Imagine 8 Peoples with Steam hammers or Maybe the MG...Thats too many Projectiles to render for almost any PC I bet(Especially if the Informations have to be transported through the net).And its not only the Ammo all thos people shoot.All the Venoms, Sawblades and Ghosts going around there...It would be pretty chaotic(Maybe it would be okay if the maps were 8 Times bigger :D)

SnowBrigade
01-21-2010, 09:55 AM
Wouldn't have to be lag if instead of increasing the zombie count you increased their individual toughness.

CaptainDingo is on to something there:

For those who are lucky enough to have an Xbox 360 Controller *and* someone to play with, today or tomorrow you will be able to play in local coop, which is basically the first version of coop.

Since there are 2 (or more) players, it should become easier to kill zombies, but each zombie in coop is a little stronger so the overall 'hostile strength' feels the same.

This avoids having to double, triple or quadruple the zombie numbers and avoids a lot of lag associated with coop.

Let's see how high we can go with player numbers, and more importantly, how high we can go while keeping the game at the most fun factor. I've been playing two player coop and that already is frantic..

We're also enabling coop for every game mode: Missions, Survival, Free Play and Free Play Barricade.

Fatdude
01-21-2010, 11:23 AM
Snowbrigade would it be possible to add triple, quad zombie numbers in the future if you work on multiplayer part of the game a bit more?Or is online coop the last update we will see for nr?

JK_DC
01-21-2010, 03:40 PM
Doubling the number would be cool enough. And maybe some slow motion, zoomed-in kills with unreal tournament announcements. "ludicrous kill" lol

SnowBrigade
01-21-2010, 04:48 PM
Hello Fatdude, don't worry we will continue to update the game even after coop; we can try how far we can push the number of zombies.
It may become a seperate mode, Horde or Crowd..

One thing to remember though is that apart from the multiplayer aspects, your machine needs to have a reasonable graphics card to render 2-4x zombies. On the other hand, we've tested 2x zombies here (literally 150+) and it runs fine on medium range ATI and NVidia cards.

The local coop update is done, so over the weekend we'll probably get some feedback on that, then coop follows, and then we can definitely look into how far we can push the game.

killedlove
01-26-2010, 04:50 AM
Too bad only local coop is avaible so far... I didn't bother much. but thanks for the support

SnowBrigade
01-26-2010, 05:01 AM
Hello killedlove, it makes sense for us to release local coop first since it shares some code with on-line coop. The more code we can get working nicely, the quick on-line coop will work 100%.

We're going to add another mode to local co-op and then release the on-line coop Beta.

Orio
01-26-2010, 01:08 PM
I have a question to you Snowbrigade regarding the coop part.


When this is all completed, will you be able to play coop with the keyboard/moouse? And if so, will you be able to play 2 players on 1 computer with 1 keyboard?

I sure hope so, that would be awesome, Player 1 using the WASD keys and player 2 using the numpad instead. Would bring very much fun to me and my friends.

SpikedRocker
01-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I've seen that done before, if you don't mind being in such close proximity to your friend (hope he/she doesn't stink ;-D). The big issue is the mouse being used for a dynamic aiming system. It would be difficult to get the 2nd player cursor/crosshair to do what the mouse does with say the arrow keys.

Orio
01-27-2010, 02:00 AM
I've seen that done before, if you don't mind being in such close proximity to your friend (hope he/she doesn't stink ;-D). The big issue is the mouse being used for a dynamic aiming system. It would be difficult to get the 2nd player cursor/crosshair to do what the mouse does with say the arrow keys.


Sitting close to someone is not a big problem, yet :)

But the mouse / aiming could be as you say. But would be fun it it would work.

Since I dont have a controller and not getting one, the coop part isnt so much fun yet, I hope we can be able to coop with other people online soon. NOT using a controller.

Suomis
01-27-2010, 02:22 AM
Achievemt for coop:

Survive in coop survival for X minuites
kill a total of X kills in coop
survive for x min after you parner has died.

WaZzUp115
01-27-2010, 02:32 AM
Since this games is basically built upon getting highscores, perhaps you could add the ability to choose country for your profile and to see your National leaderboard.
Also a leaderboard for friends would be cool to see!

SnowBrigade
01-27-2010, 02:32 AM
Hello Orio, adding keyboard only 2-player local coop is possible but targeting is the main issue here.

There are probably 3 options to handle this for player 2:

One, target the movement direction. This makes it kinda old school.

Two, add two keys to rotate the player and target that position. Hardest to control but more versatile than above.

Three, target the same area as player 1

None would be perfect though and player 1 will have an easier time than player 2 unless you use option 3.

But yes, we can add such a play mode.

WaZzUp115
01-27-2010, 02:40 AM
Snowbrigade, if you go with the "old school movement" you can always add a key which makes the player stand still and aim while it's pressed.
Still you won't be able to move backwards and shoot, but you could call it "old school mode" and make a thing out of it, both players would use the keyboard or the same kind of movement at least, and perhaps something could be done to the gameplay to compensate.

DarkWolf2
01-27-2010, 07:25 AM
Multiple mouse inputs perhaps? It's not much different from taking an extra XBOX controller and would not have any drawbacks :)

SnowBrigade
01-28-2010, 10:25 AM
For local coop (keyboard and mouse only) we will add some options so you can pick your favorite controls.

Multiple mouse inputs: that would solve everything especially since they're all USB now but not sure if anyone has ever tried that:) I wonder what Windows thinks when it starts up and finds 2 mouse inputs..

SpikedRocker
01-28-2010, 11:24 AM
Multiple mouse inputs: that would solve everything especially since they're all USB now but not sure if anyone has ever tried that:) I wonder what Windows thinks when it starts up and finds 2 mouse inputs..

At work we use extended mouse and keyboard inputs for use over long distances. Windows itself allows this to happen through something like a KVM, but it only acts as 1 mouse. Both can control the cursor independantly but if both try to use it, it gets confusing and cursor does unexpected things. I would assume this would be a simular result if you use two USB or even 1 PS/2 and 1 USB.

To even possibly work mouse 2 would actually have to be recognized as a gamepad/joystick controller. At least thats my opinion.

WaZzUp115
01-28-2010, 11:27 AM
I wonder what Windows thinks when it starts up and finds 2 mouse inputs..

I've got a mouse and a trackball, and I can use them at the same time and windows takes the input from both to steer the pointer :P
Not sure how that would work out if you separated them in-game, I guess as soon as you go to the menu both players will have to fight over the cursor :D

TBbadmofo
01-29-2010, 01:23 AM
I've seen a program called Team Player that allows multiple mice to be used. It adds extra cursors to the screen and each mouse is assigned to a cursor. All of them can move at once in their own direction just how you would imagine multiple mice to work. So it is possible.

SnowBrigade
01-29-2010, 05:50 AM
Hello TBbadmofo, looking into this now. Two mice would solve everything and work great with this game. Everyone would be able to play local coop as long as you have an extra USB mouse.

I just tried plugging in an extra mouse; you don't get two cursors but the movement of the two is combined into one.

So what we need to do is find out how to access input from the 2nd mouse (probably easy) and manually draw a second cursor/target.

Could be a fun little project, if it works we'll include it in next week's update:)

maxser
01-29-2010, 01:17 PM
I just noticed a small bug when playing random perk mode. When you gain lvl and open up perk selection screen and click cancel you can't select perk for that lvl anymore.

SnowBrigade
01-29-2010, 02:05 PM
Hello maxser, it's not a bug;) If you cancel and don't select a perk you should get a 'unused perk' bonus score at the end. So we designed it that way. If you think about it it makes sense: you could 'cancel' multiple times to get exactly the perk you want;)

But thanks for making sure - these careful checks are exactly what we're looking for!

Marsec
01-29-2010, 03:11 PM
Whoa, I didn't know about the bonus and most of the time selected a useless perk to just skip it. How significant is that bonus?

SnowBrigade
01-30-2010, 02:26 AM
Hello Marsec, currently the bonus = ( numunselectedperks x numunselectedperks ) x 1000.

We're probably changing this in next week's update to: numunselectedperks x 50000 since the current method builds up a bit slow.

Suomis
01-30-2010, 03:02 AM
A new weapon:

AA-12 autoshotgun

SnowBrigade
01-30-2010, 03:22 AM
A new weapon:

AA-12 autoshotgun

Not a bad weapon:) Let's see how long it will take us to put it in the game;)

AA-12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c&feature=player_embedded#)

I particularly like the warhead option; fragmentation payload (near the end of the video)

maxser
01-30-2010, 09:25 AM
Whoa, I didn't know about the bonus and most of the time selected a useless perk to just skip it. How significant is that bonus?

Exactly i didn't know about the bonus either, good to know anyway.


About the AA-12, from what i saw on youtube the weapon is very strong and have a lot of ammo, this could be very overpowered in game.

SnowBrigade
01-30-2010, 09:47 AM
Hello maxser, the AA-12 is extremely strong since it has a 20-round magazine firing at 2x the speed of the JackHammer weapon. But changing/reloading the drum magazine takes longer.

We've put a prototype in the game today and I'd say overall the weapon is among the 3 most powerful but you definitely need to know when to reload in safety. It can literally take down bosses in less than 10 seconds but if you don't know how to move and reload in this game, that's when you're going to get hit.

Suomis
01-30-2010, 02:13 PM
Yay my idea was taken into thought :D


If too OP, you can always make it have the small mags (take a look at cod6).

TBbadmofo
01-30-2010, 07:49 PM
I just tried plugging in an extra mouse; you don't get two cursors but the movement of the two is combined into one.


Yeah I meant the program "Team Play" added extra cursors.