TF2 Espionage: A Guide to Playing Spy

[D3PyroGS]

From another Spy who makes videos, I just want to say great job and thanks for putting in all of the effort that editing requires. It's tougher work than it looks and obviously you have dedication. I think the community will definitely benefit from your contributions for years to come. :)

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Thank you D3, but I'm not done yet. Give me another month and I'll have something else out to show you. :cool:

[Volla]

It is less flexible than the other two primaries, but I'd say that it has a place on a few maps (Turbine, Upwards perhaps), usually the type that are fairly open and lack ammo, and is a good choice with the Dead Ringer. While it may not be equal with the others, it is pretty close to it.

Fair enough, you have a good argument.
Hope Watsyurdeal covers it.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I'm gonna update you all on what's going on, currently I am working on Skullpluggery, I have Part 1 done, and have two other parts to go. When I have time I will work on it but lately so much has been happening that the only way I'll get this done is not have any game time. Which is ok, seeing as how I finally fixed an issue I've been having with my aim. Either way, expect Skullpluggery out in the near future. I will try to get the other vids out at a steady pace but I can not make any promises.

[Alfabetica]

Saw your latest stuff Wats, nice Amby gameplay and Knife, but the pedo mo just ain't doing it, sorry.

[KajiVena]

Hey Sentry, did you think about making a full Saharan set/Kunai vidya? I know you're working on the Skullpluggery video, which looks like it will be amazing, but did the thought cross your mind?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Hey Sentry, did you think about making a full Saharan set/Kunai vidya? I know you're working on the Skullpluggery video, which looks like it will be amazing, but did the thought cross your mind?

Yes it has, I just haven't had the time, as much as I want to to do these vids I have to contend with College and Work.

[ArgandPlane]

WOW :D. Theses are amazing videos. I commend you fine sir :). I am so going to try getting a medic to uber me now.

[Alfabetica]

WOW :D. Theses are amazing videos. I commend you fine sir :). I am so going to try getting a medic to uber me now.

I've had a friend that likes to do this every once in a while. It doesn't work, everyone starts dodging and running, ruin most Amby chance, and messes up any disguises so you'll just get killed as soon as it wears off from being revealed.

Uber Spycrab is a completely different matter though.

[Snipe Me]

It's out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKJgQDPeBKI&feature=related

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Heh, it's not the Kunai Guide I plan to do, but it'll do for now.

[crhoaviet6]

The music for these videos is awesome. I particularly like "Hallways of Always" - it feels sneaky and really gets your adrenaline going after the buildup. Thanks for introducing me to Ulver!

(These are also quality videos in many other respects, but I thought this deserved special mention.)

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

The first addendum should be up soon, it's literally done, all I need to do is iron out the kinks and make some final touches on it. I SHOULD be uploading it this weekend, depending on whether or not Vegas cooperates.



Oh....and I finally realized that I went overboard with the time, it's over 40 minutes long. I am not kidding.

[Magnamancy]

Heheh, I found these on youtube just after I bought TF2 late last
year. They are very, very informative and very, very well done.

I owe you the grand part of my effective Spy play as well as my
humble thanks Sentry. :)



Edit:
You could rename the new one;

"Sentry's Guide to Spy: The Movie".

:3

[Alfabetica]

40 minutes?

...wow is not sufficient here.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Heheh, I found these on youtube just after I bought TF2 late last
year. They are very, very informative and very, very well done.

I owe you the grand part of my effective Spy play as well as my
humble thanks Sentry. :)



Edit:
You could rename the new one;

"Sentry's Guide to Spy: The Movie".

:3



You're welcome :)

And lol no, I get the feeling Killing Blow or Saharan Spy may be longer, but I won't know till I actually work on them this summer. I'm going to attempt to try and do four separate videos at the same time, in the hopes I'll have em all done before I start the Fall Semester for College. Cross your fingers :)




40 minutes?

...wow is not sufficient here.

Yea.....when I said the Ambassador was my favorite weapon....you better believe it.


I'm uploading it all right now, I'll edit the descriptions and everything later after class. I'm going to college now and by the time I get back it should be done.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

It has arrived


Enjoy :)

[Alfabetica]

It has arrived


Enjoy :)

That seems to be a good plan.

[killionaire]

I hate being on the receiving end of shots on these videos.

[Alfabetica]

That seems to be a good plan.

It was a good plan.

Nice videos Wats. Excellent work yet again.

[Piippo]

Great video once again.

One question not directly related to the videos, but how do you get your view distance so far away from the gun? If I play with full field of view and viewmodel distance, the screen is cut off at the elbow joint. In your videos, the viewmodel shows a part of the Spy's upper arm as well. Is it a matter of screen resolution or what?

[:: Chicky ::]

Great tutorials bro !
learn quite abit, especially the last few % :)

can see the effort there :D

[Volla]

Funny thing is, I use the revolver because I wanna prove it can be as good as the ambassador, and at the beginning of your first vid you say the ambassador can be as good as the revolver, that is a sign of nice balance there.

Good vids, as we have come to expect of you.

[RNGgod]

Great video once again.

One question not directly related to the videos, but how do you get your view distance so far away from the gun? If I play with full field of view and viewmodel distance, the screen is cut off at the elbow joint. In your videos, the viewmodel a part of the Spy's upper arm as well. Is it a matter of screen resolution or what?

I, too, would like to know this. I added your viewmodel-zoom script you posted for Christmas, wats, but I'm wondering if you've changed part of it since then to get the increased field of view.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I, too, would like to know this. I added your viewmodel-zoom script you posted for Christmas, wats, but I'm wondering if you've changed part of it since then to get the increased field of view.

I've always used the max fov for the viewmodels and the player fov, 70 and 90 respectively. The zoom I actually don't use much, I've opted for a bind that turns off the viewmodels when held.

[RNGgod]

I've always used the max fov for the viewmodels and the player fov, 70 and 90 respectively. The zoom I actually don't use much, I've opted for a bind that turns off the viewmodels when held.

Ah, I see. Only before I added the script, I had a much smaller fov; about the one that shows up when the zoom key was held. The script thus extended my fov, but it's not as high as yours appears in videos. Thanks, I'll probably change that at some point; I quite like the larger versions.

Edit: Actually, looking at the script, it says my viewmodels and player fov are 70 and 90, yet it's clearly smaller than what I've seen in your videos.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Edit: Actually, looking at the script, it says my viewmodels and player fov are 70 and 90, yet it's clearly smaller than what I've seen in your videos.

It depends on what resolution you have, normally I have it set at 1680 x 1050

[RNGgod]

It depends on what resolution you have, normally I have it set at 1680 x 1050

Many thanks, good sir; for some reason I've been keeping my lovely widescreen monitor on a much lower resolution.

[One Shot Finch]

Just a question, but for newer Spies could you also put some guides on the YER and Kunai on the front page? I know you already made a prototype video for the Kunai, it might be better to make a complete video for that one when it's buffed (it will be).

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Just a question, but for newer Spies could you also put some guides on the YER and Kunai on the front page? I know you already made a prototype video for the Kunai, it might be better to make a complete video for that one when it's buffed (it will be).

My guides for those Knives aren't done, I still have to start them actually.

I'm hoping to work on all 3 remaining vids simultaneously. We'll see how it goes.

[Jigsore MK II]

Does anyone find playing Spy effortless anymore? I mean don't get me wrong it can still be a challenge and I enjoy it, but I just realised when I kill someone as a Spy I made someone haev to wait for the respawn and it was so EASY ?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Does anyone find playing Spy effortless anymore? I mean don't get me wrong it can still be a challenge and I enjoy it, but I just realised when I kill someone as a Spy I made someone haev to wait for the respawn and it was so EASY ?

Depends on who you play with



And hey, keep that remorse and pity ♥♥♥♥ outta here, we're Spies, we don't know the meaning of mercy.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Quick question for everyone, if I did a livestream, would you watch it?

[KinGamer7]

Quick question for everyone, if I did a livestream, would you watch it?
Depending on the timeslot (GMT for me), I definitely would.

[thejimz]

For some reason, I recently completely lost my Spy game. These videos helped me to learn the first time; I think I'll revisit them and start from scratch. As always, huge thanks for these amazing tutorials.

[RockstarMaxx]

watsyurdeal has no clue

[stabby stabby]

Thanks, mods.

[Volla]

Ding Dong the troll is dead.

[-BlazeFire!]

Nice tuto!
Ever since i started playing TF, i liked to play as Spy (i played TFC, but tough, i did'nt REALLY play online, i only played on Lan games, thus, being a Spy was'nt very smart...) and ever since its my Main class. i had about 30Hours of gameplay when i started seeing your tutos, ive learned ALOT, and, i thank you sir.
@off topic
Would make a Pack with those textures you have on your game? i actually liked'em!

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Would make a Pack with those textures you have on your game? i actually liked'em!

If you go to my channel and scroll down the left, most of the skins I used are there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/watsyurdeal

[Billy Tim]

Quick question for everyone, if I did a livestream, would you watch it?

I realize this is a bit old, but yes, I'd watch it.

Also, the link to Cheshire Cat's Spy guide on your YT page is broken.

[Kyronea]

I'd like to thank you, TheSpyIsASentry/Watsyurdeal very much for this guide. Instant three times improvement in my spying capabilities, and with that I'm able to actually practice well enough against human opponents to improve upon skills.

Cannot tell you how difficult--yet satisfying--playing the "dodge every enemy on your way behind their lines" game is, especially when you're going down the lone sole path of carnage. Difficult, but very rewarding.

[Chaostalker]

Amazing series! I'd love to see a video demonstrating the other guns, their advantages and disadvantages etc'.

Same for the various knives.

And of course I subscribed:D

[aegisfate117]

First episode of Skullpluggery is very nice.

[Mastarius]

My guides for those Knives aren't done, I still have to start them actually.

I'm hoping to work on all 3 remaining vids simultaneously. We'll see how it goes.

After UBER-UPDATE there are 1 new knife and 1 new revolver. So we have 5 unguided weapons (YER, Kunai, Big earner, L'etranger, Enforcer). And 1 unguided set Saharan spy (there is the second set in uber-update, but now its bonuses undiscovered).

I'm sure, spy community is waiting for updating ESPIONAGE GUIDE!

[StickFigureBB]

Wasn't there a knife addendum that was posted as a work in progress? The one with "Why So Serious?" from The Dark Knight soundtrack?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Wasn't there a knife addendum that was posted as a work in progress? The one with "Why So Serious?" from The Dark Knight soundtrack?

It's not quite done yet, it's roughly 90% finished. I'm doing a tribute for SubtleArt and I'm also doing a little more work on the credits. It should be done soon, hopefully by the end of the month.

[TripleZM]

It's not quite done yet, it's roughly 90% finished. I'm doing a tribute for SubtleArt and I'm also doing a little more work on the credits. It should be done soon, hopefully by the end of the month.

By the way dude, in your Episode 2 video, you say that teleporter and healing effects from enemy Engineer dispensers and teleporters still persist on a Spy even while cloaked. You may want to put an annotation on that video saying that that has been patched.

Just a heads up, because any new player who didn't follow the patch notes might not know that and may be afraid to use teleporters and dispensers in such situations.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

By the way dude, in your Episode 2 video, you say that teleporter and healing effects from enemy Engineer dispensers and teleporters still persist on a Spy even while cloaked. You may want to put an annotation on that video saying that that has been patched.

Just a heads up, because any new player who didn't follow the patch notes might not know that and may be afraid to use teleporters and dispensers in such situations.

I think I meant to say that you can still use them while cloaked and disguised, bad wording on my part. I'll fix that later.

[TripleZM]

I think I meant to say that you can still use them while cloaked and disguised, bad wording on my part. I'll fix that later.

Alrighty. I'm re-watching that play list because of boredom, so if I spot any more out-dated stuff / errors I'll let you know about them while I'm watching them again.

[dood]

Anyone wanna give me a rough picture of how far away you need to be to safely uncloak with the DR? I'm never sure if I'm too far away or too close so this kind of info would be useful.

[RNGgod]

Anyone wanna give me a rough picture of how far away you need to be to safely uncloak with the DR? I'm never sure if I'm too far away or too close so this kind of info would be useful.

I think wats' 6th episode covers this pretty well. I don't remember which of the three parts dealt with decloak sound though.

[ParanoidDrone]

Anyone wanna give me a rough picture of how far away you need to be to safely uncloak with the DR? I'm never sure if I'm too far away or too close so this kind of info would be useful.

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgYW2uJEnyw) should give you a good idea.

[dood]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

It's here, go watch it now

[Alfabetica]

It's here, go watch it now

I'd say this was a pretty good time for me to decide to check out the Spy subforum again.

[ton de mo nai]

It's here, go watch it now

Oh you misspelling bastard...

Misspelled my name, misspelled epilogue...
Damn the U.S. school system! ;)

Good video, though. I think the only thing missing would have been a thank you to SubtleArt's sister for putting his old vids back up.

EDIT: Fixing for censors. They are really out of hand around here.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Oh you misspelling bastard...

Misspelled my name, misspelled epilogue...
Damn the U.S. school system! ;)

Good video, though. I think the only thing missing would have been a thank you to SubtleArt's sister for putting his old vids back up.

EDIT: Fixing for censors. They are really out of hand around here.

I can never gt rid of these spelling errors. They always find a way into my vids, even if I spend an hour spell checking everything.

[RNGgod]

I can never gt rid of these spelling errors.


Indeed, your words are prophetic.
Anyway, I commented on the video itself, but great work again, wats. I'm just sad it's nearly half an hour shorter than the Ambassador one. But there's only so many trickstabs...

One thing I would have liked to see was, in either the section on ramp stabs or the one on impro stabs, some discussion on just how little height is needed for overhead stabs. I seem to remember the checkpoint at the end of Goldrush II working, as well as a broken teleporter. That would be great to see, as well as helpful to anyone searching the maps for places to overhead stab from.

[Piippo]

No Helicopterstabs or Frogstabs? I am disappoint.


Jokes aside, great video once again. Although I find the separate naming of all the sub-stabs of the Overhead stab silly. Impro stab comes to mind mainly. But other than that, awesome video.

And shamefully I have to admit that I had never heard of SubtleArt before this. Checked out some of his videos, and definitely gonna watch some more.

[ParanoidDrone]

Jokes aside, great video once again. Although I find the separate naming of all the sub-stabs of the Overhead stab silly. Impro stab comes to mind mainly. But other than that, awesome video.

I have to agree with this somewhat. They all boil down to "Jump over the target's head and backstab them on the way down," with minor variations based on the map features -- slope of the stairs or ground, any props you can use for a quick height boost, and whether or not nearby geometry blocks the target's LOS to you.

The reason I bring this up is that it can be overwhelming for some players to see a laundry list of various types of trickstabs that, in practice, are executed nearly identically and differ only by the object you jump from and whether or not the target can see you. It was more helpful to me, personally, to conceive of the general concept and go on to realize how widely applicable it is.

Not that I'm belittling your work or anything, just my two cents.

[ton de mo nai]

I have to agree with this somewhat. They all boil down to "Jump over the target's head and backstab them on the way down," with minor variations based on the map features -- slope of the stairs or ground, any props you can use for a quick height boost, and whether or not nearby geometry blocks the target's LOS to you.

The reason I bring this up is that it can be overwhelming for some players to see a laundry list of various types of trickstabs that, in practice, are executed nearly identically and differ only by the object you jump from and whether or not the target can see you. It was more helpful to me, personally, to conceive of the general concept and go on to realize how widely applicable it is.

Not that I'm belittling your work or anything, just my two cents.

Yep, absolutely agree with both of you. There is no reason at all to name them something different. Dropstabs and jumpstabs are different, sure. But the stairstabs, propstabs, railstabs, rampstabs, etc... is kind of ridiculous. But that section would have been kind of short without subcategories I guess. I mean it would have been: "Overhead stabs can be done any time you have even a minor height advantage over your target. Just find some stuff to jump from and stab a mofo."

[Volla]

You know, why dont we have a different name for frontal stairstabs and backwards ones? surely there is more difference between those then a ramp stab/prop stab?

You know what I mean, wats mostly did overhead stabs where he is facing his enemy and turns around in mid air, but alot of people just jump backwards without facing their opponent or turning in mid air.

It almost makes it an entirely different move all together, and yet as far as I know we just call both stairstabs.

Great video btw, nice addition to your previous works, and I enjoyed the Lauper tribute, another song that would have worked was true colours, though Im guessing you wanted the lighter mood of girls just wanna have fun to remember him in better times.

[StickFigureBB]

Excellent video! I especially loved your usage of The Dark Knight soundtrack.

Great video btw, nice addition to your previous works, and I enjoyed the Lauper tribute, another song that would have worked was true colours, though Im guessing you wanted the lighter mood of girls just wanna have fun to remember him in better times.

The song was most likely used as a tribute to the SubtleArt video of the same name: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrWZlcj1jlk

[Obeliskos]

I never considered medieval mode as practice for jukestabbing. My first session seemed successful. I played for about half an hour and some guy complained about facestabs over and over again (funnily enough, he was a crossbow medic, aka the most frustrating thing on medieval servers to me) and eventually switched to spectator before he could get a slot on my team...

Amazing video, by the way. I haven't personally learned much from this guide since I discovered it after already learning the majority of its contents, but one thing I've always wanted to see from this video was a disguising section, where you focus entirely on telling people why the scout is the best disguise. I would very much like to see that.

[Volla]

Excellent video! I especially loved your usage of The Dark Knight soundtrack.



The song was most likely used as a tribute to the SubtleArt video of the same name: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrWZlcj1jlk

Yes, but the reason Lauper used that title as his vid and the reason wats used that song is because the song is made by Cindy LAUPER, as is true colours.

[ChaoSynergy]

I have a curious question.

I've been seeing a lot of videos featuring the Dead Ringer, and almost in every single one they've been holding the DR out all the time, only lowering it when they're about to stab someone. Is this common practice with the Dead Ringer or bad form?

[ParanoidDrone]

I have a curious question.

I've been seeing a lot of videos featuring the Dead Ringer, and almost in every single one they've been holding the DR out all the time, only lowering it when they're about to stab someone. Is this common practice with the Dead Ringer or bad form?

A bit of both, in general, but at the same time holding it out protects you against unexpected headshots/backstabs/etc. A risk-free safety net. (Incidentally, this is a major reason people don't like it.)

If you have faith in your ability to not get ambushed, you can keep it away until you take a hit or two and feign to the shot that would otherwise kill you. Generally more convincing than "dying" to a single pistol shot.

[ton de mo nai]

I have a curious question.

I've been seeing a lot of videos featuring the Dead Ringer, and almost in every single one they've been holding the DR out all the time, only lowering it when they're about to stab someone. Is this common practice with the Dead Ringer or bad form?

When I was using DR a lot, I would always hold it out while running to the frontlines, as a shield against any sneaky players on the enemy team getting the drop on me. But once I got within sight of my team, I would put it away and find someone to get in a shootout with.

[Toxicsniper]

Spy is a time honored tradition in tf. The best spys always learn
to jump, duck, juke, and just plain circle around the enemy. Ahhhhh spy you've been in our hearts for years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2WFB7uOXPg

[pickle129]

I just wanted to say I really liked your 2nd addendum, the part with Matador Stabs was great. It's one of those techniques that most spies never learn because people don't talk about them, but you did an excellent job explaining them. It was truly art to watch them.

[Kahunaburger]

Dude, your guide is amazing. I'm a nub, and I literally just did the following: played a couple of rounds as a spy, sucked terribly, watched your guide, played as a spy again, and top-fragged. Thanks for explaining a complicated class so well!

[dextrin303]

Thanks for the guide, i learned alot! i subbed, looking forward to more videos!!

[NickNarwhal]

usually i can handle one engie and his sentry without too much of a problem (unless i get a failstab, i seem to failstab engies way more that any other class) but what about when there's more than one engie, and all the engies in the area have lv3 sentries? usually it's only 2 or 3, the only time i've seen 4 or 5 is on that one roof in gorge that you can wrangler-jump to. it's hard enough to deal with one competent engie and his sentry, but when they make a bunch like that, idk how i'm supposed to deal with that, and my teams ALWAYS expect me to, refusing to just uber up and push(which, in the situations where the sentries are crammed close together, should easily work). if i sap one sentry, all the engies will immediately know i'm there and remove my sapper and kill me, either with their shotguns or wrangled sentries. if i backstab one of the engies, all the unsapped sentries open fire on me. this is especially bad when the engies and sentries are spread out, though i can't handle them crammed together either. the only solution i can think of is bringing another spy or two and coordinate our attacks, but pulling that off would be unlikely in the first place, and finding a decent spy in the pubs to do it with is effing impossible. so what do i do to deal with these groups of engies?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

In those scenarios, go Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H28ERni_Tw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qksh2CAcQds&feature=related

[pwnsome]

Just got round to watching the latest-amazing.

I owe you a lot Wats, you inspired me to play spy two years ago and I haven't looked back since. If it weren't for your videos I probably wouldn't still be playing the game today, so thank you.

And as an aside, your tribute to SubtleArt was heartwarming. I never got to speak to the guy, but he was an amazing spy and died tragically young.

So yeah....stay awesome.

[TheFobb]

Awesome videos, thanks very much.

[Snipe Me]

@Narwhal: You could try using Your Eternal Reward, but as Sentry said, Demo would work quite well. If you can do it with YER, then do it, but if you're struggling and nothing seems to work, just switch to Demo or DH Soldier.

[PatienceIsKey]

Today I was kicked and banned from a server for "cheating". A SPY cheating, I just began to play this morning with my Strange Ambassador and apparently tonight people disliked the fact that I had catch on the way of using it.

So basically, what's the point of being too good if in the end you're only going to be regarded as a hacker or a cheater? This injustice greatly affected me I must say D:

[Volla]

Today I was kicked and banned from a server for "cheating". A SPY cheating, I just began to play this morning with my Strange Ambassador and apparently tonight people disliked the fact that I had catch on the way of using it.

So basically, what's the point of being too good if in the end you're only going to be regarded as a hacker or a cheater? This injustice greatly affected me I must say D:

There there, have a free hug.

...From Wats...

*backs away*

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

There there, have a free hug.

...From Wats...

*backs away*

lol


And ignore people like that, they're obviously morons if they ban you without any evidence of any kind.

Trust me, real hackers are NOTORIOUSLY obvious.

[Virus.]

Just complain. The server I admin requires evidence for a ban to stick.

[Shippou]

I need help practicing the backstab tactics. Where can I train?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I need help practicing the backstab tactics. Where can I train?

tr_walkway and cp_degrootkeep

[Shippou]

How do I get tr_walkway? I can enter cp_degrootkeep cause there are lots of such games

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

How do I get tr_walkway? I can enter cp_degrootkeep cause there are lots of such games

Go to Game Banana and search for it in the maps section.

[khaldrogo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTHI3Vrhy4

[Twigs here]

Ran into you on a pub when I was practicing medic. Much rage was had :(

[Virus.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTHI3Vrhy4

Damn some of that is pretty good. It's a shame the other team wasn't. Also, you are the fastest slow-weapon-switch-mode user I've ever seen.

[khaldrogo]

Damn some of that is pretty good. It's a shame the other team wasn't. Also, you are the fastest slow-weapon-switch-mode user I've ever seen.

Thanks lol...yeah ive gotten into a habit of switching disguises and weps that way, luckily im fast at it so it doesnt mess me up
also I made separate vid for the degroot, leapstabbing flying demoknights part, since people seem to enjoy that part the most

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt3Fd3HbdMM

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Just to let you all know, Addendum 3 is done. However, I'm doing another tribute, and until it's done I won't post the final version of the vid.

On who? Well, let's just say he's still actively playing and plays more Spy than anyone I know.

[Piippo]

On who? Well, let's just say he's still actively playing and plays more Spy than anyone I know.

stabby stabby?

[Volla]

Well that was a no brainer.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Yea, I know Volla, but since you all know who it is, get yer asses on harassing about those replays. I wanna finish my vid dammit :(

[tsr2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xAYW_E36Bw

A tactic for the battlement scouts

[sinez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xAYW_E36Bw

A tactic for the battlement scouts

Yes. You get 2 stabs on scouts in a full game of 2fort.


Here are the PROBLEMS with this plan:

1) its 2fort. You have GOT to be kidding me.


2) Since you are using the mostly useless CnD, and using it in the very way that makes it useless, you aren't actually acomplishing anything. AT ALL. A good spy may be able to cripple a sentry as an allied soldier is coming up so they can push past a lvl 3. You cant. A good spy may be taking down snipers with amy headshots before deadringing from the scout that saw him and imediatly heading back into the enemy fort with almost no damage taken, you aren't.

A good spy may be doing SOMETHING. YOU AREN'T.







This summarizes the problem with the CnD, really.

[Obeliskos]

Seems like a tactic he put up for fun. Chill out.

[Virus.]

Seems like a tactic he put up for fun. Chill out.

It's pretty hard to ignore something like that. I don't blame him.

[Cereal Killer]

When are you going to start working on that paranoia video you were talking about in your latest video, Sentry?

I really would love to play mindgames on my opponents.
Plus, it's not like your doing the Man of Honor Set at all really...

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

When are you going to start working on that paranoia video you were talking about in your latest video, Sentry?

I really would love to play mindgames on my opponents.
Plus, it's not like your doing the Man of Honor Set at all really...


Well, seeing as how the next vid is the Kunai/Diamondback, it'll be quite a while before that vid comes out. But I have at least started on the intro, just need to make a plan of what I want to cover and how I want to do it.

[Achillies]

Well, seeing as how the next vid is the Kunai/Diamondback, it'll be quite a while before that vid comes out. But I have at least started on the intro, just need to make a plan of what I want to cover and how I want to do it.

What's the ETA on that Kunai vid? I'm looking forward to it.

[ton de mo nai]

I thought Wats already had a kunai vid...

[ParanoidDrone]

I thought Wats already had a kunai vid...

He has a few videos of him using it, but not a full on instructional video.

[ton de mo nai]

He has a few videos of him using it, but not a full on instructional video.

How to Kunai:

1. Be very careful
2. ?????
3. PROFIT!

[God_Hand21]

How to Kunai:

1. Be very careful
2. ?????
3. PROFIT!

I thought that was just Spy in general.

[Volla]

I thought that was just Spy in general.

Which is why the kunai is such a fitting spy weapon.

[ton de mo nai]

I thought that was just Spy in general.

Nah, Enforcer DR spies don't have to worry about anything.

[Alfabetica]

Nah, Enforcer DR spies don't have to worry about anything.

Verbal abuse.

[CaptainSurprise]

Verbal abuse.

*admin abuse

*evil grin*

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Change of plans, I'm going to have Addendum III out today, but I'm doing the tribute on someone else. Mostly because I planned to show off her work already in a video, but I kinda forgot about it. At least this time I can show off her stuff and give her my respects.

As for Stabby, I'm saving his tribute for Addendum IV, he's still one of my most favorite Spies to watch and consistently inspires me to play. He will get credit where credit is due, I promise.

[Wliu]

do you need to kill a target before you can disguise as them?

No, you can disguise as them even if they're alive. This is why sometimes your cover is blown because they'll see someone with their name, that's an immediate sign of a Spy.






My answers are in Red

Actually...with the Your Eternal Reward, u need to kill somebody before you can disguise.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Actually...with the Your Eternal Reward, u need to kill somebody before you can disguise.

Look at the date of that post, this thread has been around longer than you have.

[ParanoidDrone]

Look at the date of that post, this thread has been around longer than you have.

It was funny when YER was bugged so that you got a disguise even if you backstabbed an Uber or a Razorback.

EDIT:
Change of plans, I'm going to have Addendum III out today, but I'm doing the tribute on someone else. Mostly because I planned to show off her work already in a video, but I kinda forgot about it. At least this time I can show off her stuff and give her my respects.

You're doing a tribute to the Pyro?

*hides*

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

You're doing a tribute to the Pyro?

*hides*

Nope, Ms. Shaylyn Hamm

[ParanoidDrone]

Nope, Ms. Shaylyn Hamm

I confess I've never heard of her.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I confess I've never heard of her.

She made the Saharan Spy Set

[ParanoidDrone]

She made the Saharan Spy Set

Oh, ChemicalAlia. Didn't know that was her real name.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

She works for Gearbox atm, working on Borderlands 2 I think.

I actually got to meet it her in person at the Gearbox Community Day, pretty cool girl. Would've been nice if I could've stopped fidgeting so damn much.

[Piippo]

Just noticed Addendum III is up. Gotta watch it when I've got some more time.

[Alfabetica]

Good work with addendum 3, unfortunately there really isn't anything new in there. Were you just looking for an excuse to play Saharan Spy for a while? :P

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Good work with addendum 3, unfortunately there really isn't anything new in there. Were you just looking for an excuse to play Saharan Spy for a while? :P




Ball buster man, seriously

[Virus.]

I'm afraid you've been called out Watsurdeal. You'll just have to get us another video.

Off you go.

[Alfabetica]

Ball buster man, seriously

It's still good, just everything else you've done has bought something new to the table pretty much, either throwing something new at us, giving a new perspective on something or helping us refine out tactics as Spies and improve as a whole. This episode really has no merit with anyone who's been around since the polycount update was released and has had time to work all this out themselves. Sure, nice with the Uber update and all the F2Ps coming in, but outside of that just some good footage of Saharan Spy gameplay, this episode is about 8 months on from when it was needed.

This latest episode is the L'etranger of TF2 Espionage, it helps some people, but is a bit worse than the competition and doesn't do much for a good chunk of players. That said, we'd all rather have it around than be without it, it's a great tool for newer Spies and players.

Sorry for being a ♥♥♥♥ here, but would you honestly prefer lies?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

It's still good, just everything else you've done has bought something new to the table pretty much, either throwing something new at us, giving a new perspective on something or helping us refine out tactics as Spies and improve as a whole. This episode really has no merit with anyone who's been around since the polycount update was released and has had time to work all this out themselves. Sure, nice with the Uber update and all the F2Ps coming in, but outside of that just some good footage of Saharan Spy gameplay, this episode is about 8 months on from when it was needed.

This latest episode is the L'etranger of TF2 Espionage, it helps some people, but is a bit worse than the competition and doesn't do much for a good chunk of players. That said, we'd all rather have it around than be without it, it's a great tool for newer Spies and players.

2 things

1. I'm a student in college, I don't exactly have the option to just put all my time aside for these videos.

2. When the Saharan Spy was released I JUST finished Episode 6 in the original series. I had over 3+ vids planned for Spy alone when the set came out.

Not trying to be harsh but I don't HAVE to do any of these videos, I do them for me more than anything else as it's a skill that could make me money someday if Game Design.

Besides, despite the fact this set has been out for a while, people have this weird notion that it's terrible without the Set Bonus, which is entirely untrue. It just requires different tactics, that's it.

[Alfabetica]

2 things

1. I'm a student in college, I don't exactly have the option to just put all my time aside for these videos.

2. When the Saharan Spy was released I JUST finished Episode 6 in the original series. I had over 3+ vids planned for Spy alone when the set came out.

Not trying to be harsh but I don't HAVE to do any of these videos, I do them for me more than anything else as it's a skill that could make me money someday if Game Design.

Besides, despite the fact this set has been out for a while, people have this weird notion that it's terrible without the Set Bonus, which is entirely untrue. It just requires different tactics, that's it.

Sorry I'm coming off harsh myself. Addendum 3 is still great. I'm not saying it isn't, and I'm not saying you could have done a better job on it, you can't bring much new to the table in relation to Saharan Spy.

It's an A, not an A+. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Obeliskos]

It was a bit late to the party, but you have to understand:

1) Wats' scheduling conflicts
2) New players are constantly joining and taking interest in the spy class, so it's never really late since there's always gonna be an audience and people to inform

[Volla]

Saharan spy needed to be covered anyway, wouldnt be a complete spy guide if one of the most used setups ingame isnt even covered.

[then again I dont see Wats doing an enforcer DR guide any time soon]

And you have to admit Alfa, not alot of people are going to review the letranger as broadly as this guide has done.

Still looking forward to the Kunai/Diamonback one alot more though.

[RNGgod]

And you have to admit Alfa, not alot of people are going to review the letranger as broadly as this guide has done.

Still looking forward to the Kunai/Diamonback one alot more though.

This; I'll admit I was hoping for a little more about YER/the set as a whole, but it was all more than worth it for the sheer depth of information about L'Etranger. Seriously, that was brilliant. Actually tempted to use the bloody thing now.

[ton de mo nai]

Saharan spy needed to be covered anyway, wouldnt be a complete spy guide if one of the most used setups ingame isnt even covered.

[then again I dont see Wats doing an enforcer DR guide any time soon]

And you have to admit Alfa, not alot of people are going to review the letranger as broadly as this guide has done.

Still looking forward to the Kunai/Diamonback one alot more though.

The surveying I've done shows that the full SS set is one of the least popular loadouts. Needs more data points though, to be conclusive.

[Volla]

The surveying I've done shows that the full SS set is one of the least popular loadouts. Needs more data points though, to be conclusive.

I find that hard to believe, I see more Saharan spies than any other spies, this includes friendly spies.

[ParanoidDrone]

I find that hard to believe, I see more Saharan spies than any other spies, this includes friendly spies.

I don't know about the full Saharan set, but I have seen a lot of YER Spies lately for sure.

[ton de mo nai]

Well, admittedly I only went to a dozen servers or so and only saw 40 spies, and this was last weekend.
But this is what I found:

7 vanilla spies

4 vanilla with Amby

3 CnD/knife/Amby

2 each of the following: CnD/YER/Amby, CnD/Knife/Letranger, DR/knife/Enforcer, and DR/YER/Amby

1 each of the following: Full SS, CnD/knife/Diamondback, DR/YER/Diamondback, DR/BigE/Enforcer, DR/Kunai/Letranger, IW/YER/Amby, CnD/BigE/Amb, CnD/knife/enforcer, CnD/YER/revolver, IW/knife/enforcer, IW/YER/letranger, IW/BigE/Enforcer, CnD/knife/revolver, CnD/kunai/enforcer, DR/knife/Letranger, DR/kunai/amby, CnD/YER/letranger, IW/YER/revolver

If you want to go around and catalog some servers, send me the results so we can improve this. I got tired of it pretty quickly.

[Obeliskos]

Full SS includes a hat which can be hard to get.

And obv vanilla will be the most popular since EVERYBODY has vanilla.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

If you're from the UK, Germany, or any other country that doesn't allow you to view the video, I added download links so you can get the mp4 file that way.

Enjoy

[CatatonicMan]

The surveying I've done shows that the full SS set is one of the least popular loadouts. Needs more data points though, to be conclusive.

The fact that the hat is required probably has something to do with the relative scarcity of the full set.

Also, people like to wear hats as a cosmetic; if they have a hat (particularly an unusual or rare one) that they like better than the Fez, they might be less inclined to use the set.

[kyselak]

2) New players are constantly joining and taking interest in the spy class, so it's never really late since there's always gonna be an audience and people to inform

Confirmed. I bought the Orange Box in Spring 2011 & play TF2 since then. Not until now i tryed out the Spy Character seriously for some reasons, majorly my problems coordinating stuff ingame at all :-D

Having seen these Videos, i'm now going to train my Spy skills every day, since i have gotten a completely new view at this class.

Summed up: Amazing tutorial, thanks a lot & keep up the good work!

[Virus.]

The fact that the hat is required probably has something to do with the relative scarcity of the full set.

Also, people like to wear hats as a cosmetic; if they have a hat (particularly an unusual or rare one) that they like better than the Fez, they might be less inclined to use the set.

Now that TF2 remembers sets I'd say not.

[Cereal Killer]

Hey Wats. Just a quick question. What program do you use to record your tf2 gameplay?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Hey Wats. Just a quick question. What program do you use to record your tf2 gameplay?

Well, first I record a demo by typing "record <demoname>" in the console

Then after I'm done playing, I start up xfire, watch the demo, and record the frames I want.

[MidnightOne]

Hey Wats. Just a quick question. What program do you use to record your tf2 gameplay?

Fraps does just fine.

[Cereal Killer]

OK. Thanks on that one, though i kinda saw Jerma985's entire tutorial on it lol. One thing he didn't mention however, is how to put in the special text that you usually put in. So...how do you do that?

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Courier New is the text I use

[Dark_Reaper115]

YOU ARE MY HERO :D

[Repulsen]

Very nice lessons.

I have to watch them more to remember them more, though.

And stairstabs are SO MUCH TRICKIER than they look.

[Pinion_]

I watched the commentary on episodes 1-3 this morning, pretty cool. It never really occurred to me that you were still early into spy when you were making these Wats.

On the section about taking out sentries, I think you kind of overstate the need to strafe around them, even while behind. Maybe I'm just the fastest sapper I've seen, but unless I'm at about a 45 degree angle or less to the front of the sentry, I don't strafe. But that's kind of nitpicking, it is good advice.

I do have an idea for something for you to include in a future video: Being invisible while uncloaked, or staying out of an enemy's field of view.

Ever noticed how most people, when they have to turn around, turn clockwise because they're right handed? Blind spot.

Edit: I might actually have a demonstration of that blind spot on a replay, but it's currently broken (CTF_Jar or something). If it gets fixed, I could pass it on to you Wats.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Ever noticed how most people, when they have to turn around, turn clockwise because they're right handed? Blind spot.


Very true



But the thing is, that's not going to be easy to capture on a demo.


It's a good thing to tell people, but trying to demonstrate it might be a tad difficult. If anything, I'll include it in the notes. I have plans for another big vid, but it'll be a LONG time before I make it.

[killionaire]

Still working on these dood?

(Man I must suck so bad if I could ever get back into the game. Six months out)

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Starting work on Addendum 4, it will cover these items in the following order


Kunai
Diamondback
Spy Cicle
Man of Honor Set

[RNGgod]

Starting work on Addendum 4, it will cover these items in the following order


Kunai
Diamondback
Spy Cicle
Man of Honor Set


Woah, that's going to be a big 'un.

[CaptainSurprise]

Blergh, Man of Honour. You even said yourself you had more important things to cover, like advanced movement *hint hint*

But in all serious, pumped for this new episode, looks like a lot of work.

[Torham]

Impressive, TheSentryIsaSpy!

I really like your series and I like how you add new stuff in Addenums, your guide is detailed and very educating in terms of learning how to spy in TF2. Definitely one of my favourites.

Looking forward to new Addenum.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Blergh, Man of Honour. You even said yourself you had more important things to cover, like advanced movement *hint hint*

But in all serious, pumped for this new episode, looks like a lot of work.

Yea I know, but it seems Valve has no interest in trying to change it, I might as well cover it as it is and get it out of the way.

[RockyTF2]

Hurp. I pride myself on strategically trying to outsmart pubbers on payload maps. I am E2 Spy.

[RNGgod]

Hurp. I pride myself on strategically trying to outsmart pubbers on payload maps. I am E2 Spy.

Uh, what prompted this little display?


Just pointing out, this sub-forum has quite a few E2 spies, and if Wats is the only one with the time and effort to make videos educating other spies, we're sure as hell going to let him.

Because we're lazy.

[ParanoidDrone]

Yea I know, but it seems Valve has no interest in trying to change it, I might as well cover it as it is and get it out of the way.

Sometimes I suspect that Valve managed to not realize that people would use the Enforcer separately from the rest of the set. -25 HP is a bit much for the Big Earner, but it makes more sense if it's intended to balance the Enforcer at the same time.

Not that this is remotely good design sense, but still.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Sometimes I suspect that Valve managed to not realize that people would use the Enforcer separately from the rest of the set. -25 HP is a bit much for the Big Earner, but it makes more sense if it's intended to balance the Enforcer at the same time.

Not that this is remotely good design sense, but still.




Idk, personally it feels like both unlocks were entirely unnecessary. We got one item that is simply too much, and one that is simply not worth it.

I think they just intended this to be a beginner's Spy Set, and that's how I'll explain it in the video.

[PopularVote]

This seems like a better place to ask than starting an entire new thread...

Are two Spies working together a good strategy? One acting crappy as a decoy, the other getting stuff done while the team chases the decoy?

[A GJP]

I think it got mentioned in the guide at some point, not sure when it was, though. Spy teamwork can work quite well, f.i. as you described above, while taking out multiple engineer nests at the same time or walking in the base at the same time to look legit, but it requires a lot of communication which should be better handled by microphone instead of text since texting requires you to stand still. Because of the need of two good spies and a lot of com it's not really usable on pubs, but as soon as you get this to work, you'll break a lot of stuff.

[ParanoidDrone]

This seems like a better place to ask than starting an entire new thread...

Are two Spies working together a good strategy? One acting crappy as a decoy, the other getting stuff done while the team chases the decoy?

In my experience, multiple Spies tend to get in each other's way unless you're explicitly communicating between each other. You can certainly try to take advantage of the other Spy as a scapegoat of sorts, although that's kind of a ♥♥♥♥ move. (Which is what Spy is all about, really.)

For anything more elaborate than "Backstab these guys while they're distracted with the other Spy and hope he doesn't blow my cover" I suggest you recruit a friend and use Skype or something.

[Snipe Me]

For setting up distractions, it'd probably be more effective to team up with a combat class like Soldier. If you're going to have the second be a Spy, though, I'd advise Dead Ringer.

[Eriorguez]

Pyros make in my experience good Spy partners, with the whole putting flames off, airblasting people into knifes, and distracting the enemy team by setting them on fire.

[Qwerty04]

I definitely liked the videos, they were very informative.
However, I think you should have some more focused on co-op spying, which, for me at least, was a whole new perspective at Team Fortress espionage. You may have covered all the strategies, but maybe a few more examples of where and when co-op is best would be helpful.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I definitely liked the videos, they were very informative.
However, I think you should have some more focused on co-op spying, which, for me at least, was a whole new perspective at Team Fortress espionage. You may have covered all the strategies, but maybe a few more examples of where and when co-op is best would be helpful.

The truth is it really isn't all that helpful, Spy is at it's best when there's only a single Spy who knows his role.

Anything another Spy can do, your allies should do fairly well. Creating distractions and synchronizing their actions with yours to accomplish the objective, like sapping a gun and having your team run in and mop up.

[Qwerty04]

The truth is it really isn't all that helpful, Spy is at it's best when there's only a single Spy who knows his role.

Anything another Spy can do, your allies should do fairly well. Creating distractions and synchronizing their actions with yours to accomplish the objective, like sapping a gun and having your team run in and mop up.

This isn't always true. If a pyro sees maybe a scout or a pyro he might not chase, thinking his teammates could probably handle it. However, if he were to see a spy, he would definitely chase him unless on really low health because A) its a pyros job and B) because of paranoia. I know when i see a spy ill always chase him until one of us is dead, but if its someone else i might let them go.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

This isn't always true. If a pyro sees maybe a scout or a pyro he might not chase, thinking his teammates could probably handle it. However, if he were to see a spy, he would definitely chase him unless on really low health because A) its a pyros job and B) because of paranoia. I know when i see a spy ill always chase him until one of us is dead, but if its someone else i might let them go.

True, but good co op between Spies is very rare, unless it's someone you know and trust very well with the class it's usually not that great.


I don't really want to encourage it either, otherwise we'll end up with more of the whole "omg 4 Spies" scenario.

1 is usually enough, you really don't need more than 2.

[RNGgod]

Hey, I loved that Co-op video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96cQbYnc1sA) as much as anyone. Great stuff.

But it doesn't happen that often.

[Qwerty04]

I guess I just want to see more of it in game
It looks really cool when everything goes as planned

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Hey, I loved that Co-op video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96cQbYnc1sA) as much as anyone. Great stuff.

But it doesn't happen that often.



Hm.....you know, maybe we should do a frag vid like this. Just members of E2 working together, showing what we can do as a team.


Be pretty cool I think.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Ispired by Stabby and Black Lite Attack, I started live streaming today, channel is here: http://www.twitch.tv/watsyurdeal

[Badmonk]

awesome!! thanks very much for the spy tips!! i love ALL classes in TF2 but the spy is by far my fave one, also imho the hardest and sometimes the most frustrating to play!! thanks again for the great vids etc :)

[ycxia]

For some weird reason, every server that I go on has 4 spies and they never co-op.

[MoneyMayhem]

ive herd you can sometimes get and use the waeapons of the character your disguised as . is that true or what ? every time i use spy i only get the disguise and thy spy weapons suck

[ParanoidDrone]

ive herd you can sometimes get and use the waeapons of the character your disguised as . is that true or what ? every time i use spy i only get the disguise and thy spy weapons suck

Um, what? You can make your disguise look like it's holding the weapons of the respective classes, but you're still a Spy and are therefore limited to using Spy weapons.

Also claiming that the Spy weapons suck is a surefire way to draw the ire of the subforum. Your funeral.

[XAwesomeOneX]

ive herd you can sometimes get and use the waeapons of the character your disguised as . is that true or what ? every time i use spy i only get the disguise and thy spy weapons suck

MUST. NOT. CORRECT.

[Bluefish]

For some weird reason, every server that I go on has 4 spies and they never co-op.

Yeah, I see this frequently

It's frustrating, because the more spies there are (that aren't cooperating of course), the harder it is for any of them to get anything done.

More spies = more paranoia.


Then I am obligated to play a class that our team needs, like a medic for example, when I came into the server wanting to play spy.

BUT, that's just tf2.

Anyways, the main reason I came to post on this thread was to say how awesome and useful this tutorial is! Thank you so much watsurdeal for making what I consider the best spy tutorial on the internet. It helped me alot when I was just a scrub f2p.

[TzC | :D]

Bump, good work sentry, nice vids they should help some begginers

[Piippo]

Still waiting for that Addendum, wats :D

[Makarni]

The last vid where you coverd the l'et. Where you ofc try to show the wepaons point.. you actualy show why the weapon is pointless.

At 5:12 this is a perfect example of why the gun is utterly useless.

A lone pyro took 5 hits was it?.. to fill your bar and be able to use Dr again. If the pyro was in range, you would have been dead after 2 bullets. the pyro died just as you had enough cloak for dr. In that situation you didnt actualy need the cloak. Now, if you did not need the cloak.. you did not need the guns + and its -. In other words, any other gun was a better deal in that situation becuase it would have killed the pyro faster.. and then you could have ran away quicker to get out of more incoming enemy.

If we take that to a group situation. Lets say all you need is 2 shots to fill the Dr to escape. You now have 2 enemy, the chances of you getting 2 shots on a player then getting out dr before those players (any combo of players) has killed you.. is very slim.

With the invis watch its much the same. If you have over 4 seconds of stealth no point talking about that since its enough to get away in most cases.

Better to take it worst case and have no bar at all. Being realistic you will need a minimum of 3 hits to gain enough cloak (plus the charge time between those shots) to escape. Now.. 3 hits will not kill any class with that gun.. and then you escape leaving the person alive to hunt you down with some 4 seconds of cloak (and some of that is in blink). you would have been much better off with any other gun and going for the kill.

Again in the group situation, needing 3 hits minimum to have enough cloak to get away?.. the 2 players will have killed you.

Ofc i understand this gun is forced for the set bonus. But, i think trying to say this gun is benificial is flat out wrong. This gun is a complete nerf to the spy no matter what way you look at it.

0.5 extra blink time is not so bad.

Not being able to choose your disguise.. meh.. kinde balanced weighted by the fact the knife is silent.

That leaves the l'et.. this gun is the real forced down side for the upside of no de-cloak noise.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

The last vid where you coverd the l'et. Where you ofc try to show the wepaons point.. you actualy show why the weapon is pointless.

At 5:12 this is a perfect example of why the gun is utterly useless.

A lone pyro took 5 hits was it?.. to fill your bar and be able to use Dr again. If the pyro was in range, you would have been dead after 2 bullets. the pyro died just as you had enough cloak for dr. In that situation you didnt actualy need the cloak. Now, if you did not need the cloak.. you did not need the guns + and its -. In other words, any other gun was a better deal in that situation becuase it would have killed the pyro faster.. and then you could have ran away quicker to get out of more incoming enemy.

If we take that to a group situation. Lets say all you need is 2 shots to fill the Dr to escape. You now have 2 enemy, the chances of you getting 2 shots on a player then getting out dr before those players (any combo of players) has killed you.. is very slim.

With the invis watch its much the same. If you have over 4 seconds of stealth no point talking about that since its enough to get away in most cases.

Better to take it worst case and have no bar at all. Being realistic you will need a minimum of 3 hits to gain enough cloak (plus the charge time between those shots) to escape. Now.. 3 hits will not kill any class with that gun.. and then you escape leaving the person alive to hunt you down with some 4 seconds of cloak (and some of that is in blink). you would have been much better off with any other gun and going for the kill.

Again in the group situation, needing 3 hits minimum to have enough cloak to get away?.. the 2 players will have killed you.

Ofc i understand this gun is forced for the set bonus. But, i think trying to say this gun is benificial is flat out wrong. This gun is a complete nerf to the spy no matter what way you look at it.

0.5 extra blink time is not so bad.

Not being able to choose your disguise.. meh.. kinde balanced weighted by the fact the knife is silent.

That leaves the l'et.. this gun is the real forced down side for the upside of no de-cloak noise.



Everyone plays differently

[JebinZedalu]

I couldn't pull off half this stuff. ;-; Not out of lack of skill (though that definitely plays a factor, and those involved with this guide are flippin' amazing), but because I simply do not have the luck to not get screwed over when I try any of it. Keep watching this videos thinking "that Pyro would have turned around right as I came near him", or "that Soldier would have hit me directly", or "I would've been meatshot by a Scout right before that stab", or "that Medic would have critical-Ubersaw'd me as I jumped over him".

That said, really awesome video series. XD

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Addendum 4 should be done in the next few days, just working on the credits now.

Also added some people for you guys to subscribe to, k thnx bai

[ParanoidDrone]

Ooh goody. Something to look forward to.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Addendum 4 is done, go watch it

[RNGgod]

Awwwwwwww yeahhhhhh

[NeoSamus]

Was your name "Dr. Pepper" during one of those kunai sections? <__<

Man of Honor screenie pops up, new track plays -> Holy ♥♥♥♥ Big O. I'm considering giving you rep just for using tracks from that show because the soundtrack is so amazing.

And Stickerbush Symphony are you kidding me wats, I'm just gushing over the music choice here. Ending segment was great too.

Actual content was good as always, though :3

[Hammock]

Heh, Coughin' and Sneezin.


I have to say, I love your videos. This may be useless feedback but I certainly enjoy recieving it.

The format and theme of your videos make me feel invigorated to stab butts and shoot faces. I almost wish I could contribute as much seeing as a project like this (especially being 50 mins) requires serious attention. I take my hats off to you sir for your determination to make these guides for an often frustrating class.

Especially the stigma attached to using certain weapons or tactics, yet you caarry on knowing its for the viewers benefit.

Carry on stabbing my friend! I feel inspired to do tedious rendering on my POV's and give my own feedback. :D

[ParanoidDrone]

I already left a comment on Youtube to this effect, but I love you forever for the SM64-style credits.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

I already left a comment on Youtube to this effect, but I love you forever for the SM64-style credits.

You are more than welcome, I enjoyed paying homage to one of my favorite games. :)

[Piippo]

Pretty sexy vid. Nice work as usual :D

[Vlisa]

Saw you in a pub once. You left before I could ask for a backstab, but it was cool all the same, Thanks for the vids! <3

[MissAprilFools]

Your video's really helped me out once I got over the whole nervousness issue I had with playing Spy. Also, I just really love your playlist. I even heard Deus Ex music and Lifeformed in the newest. :cool:

So I not only got cool spy tips, but some sweet new tracks to add to my library.

[GentleMad]

I'm sorry, I feel I need to stick up of the man of honour set. I'll just say that I love your video and they were what got spending most of my time playing spy, but I feel you were to quick to judge the man of honour set now because of what it use to be.Yes I agree that the enforcer was over powered before but to say that valve made it for the sole purpose of helping new players is a lie. What I think they tried to do is make a combat spy; like a weak scout that can feign death, which is why the whole set has an amazing senergy with the dead ringer. The idea was the spies would fight with heavy classes and if they came under fire, feign, run behind the enemy and clear the path with full cloak. One thing you failed to see with the big earner is the if you use the dead ringer for a short time, your cloak goes to 40%, you stab and pick up their weapon for 55% of your cloak and basically get full cloak back per kill. I love playing combat spy as it so different from the normal play style and it relies you work with your to distract the enemy. You may (will) disagree with me but I just saying but don't hate the set cause it promote a new style of play unlike any spy play style we've seen.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

What I think they tried to do is make a combat spy; like a weak scout that can feign death, which is why the whole set has an amazing senergy with the dead ringer.


The Revolver already did this, look up Evan (http://www.youtube.com/user/stingcandy) on youtube, watch him play, he's proof that the Revolver is more than capable of suiting the Combat Spy Role. We did not need the Enforcer, and the Spy didn't need a gun that further encourages him to shoot instead of simply stab his opponents.





One thing you failed to see with the big earner is the if you use the dead ringer for a short time, your cloak goes to 40%, you stab and pick up their weapon for 55% of your cloak and basically get full cloak back per kill. I love playing combat spy as it so different from the normal play style and it relies you work with your to distract the enemy. You may (will) disagree with me but I just saying but don't hate the set cause it promote a new style of play unlike any spy play style we've seen.



It's not a new style, it's the same thing we've always seen with the Dead Ringer except buffed, there is nothing new the Man of Honor Set offers.


And regarding the Big Earner, you have a number of ways to get cloak back, you do not need this knife. Especially since it encourages you to be aggressive when you don't even have a full feign ready, that sort of mistake gets you killed.


I wasn't unfair with the Set, it's been out for over a year, and I've analyzed and tried to give it a fair chance, but it's pretty clear that it was in fact made for beginners. Because only beginners would need, a) a gun that does what the Revolver does except more, and b) make up for poor cloak management and encourage aggressive play, which you really shouldn't do as Spy.

[GentleMad]

Let's agree to disagree then. I feel feel valve should change stock if they are going to make a weapon for beginner, but I understand that valve might want people to buy the weapon to help them start spying. I thank you for teaching me all that I know so far about the spy class from one of the best spy playing at the moment, but I just love being reckless with the man of honour set.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

Added a frag vid to op

[SoulLeapers]

Those amby headshots are wicked sick! Great work there mate!

[GentleMad]

Quick question, what gun would you suggest for the kunai? Is there revolver that it works well with? I got a strange one and I want to do better with it.

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

USe whatever works best for you



Personally, I like the Amby

[GentleMad]

Personally, I like the Amby
Really! There's a big surprise. Thanks.

[Volla]

Quick question, what gun would you suggest for the kunai? Is there revolver that it works well with? I got a strange one and I want to do better with it.

Just make sure you use either the stock or the CnD with that kunai.

using the DR defeats the point.

[5p3ak]

Just make sure you use either the stock or the CnD with that kunai.

using the DR defeats the point.

What's wrong with using DR with the kunai? :confused:

[TheSentryIsaSpy]

So with the limited time that I've had with Mann vs Machine, here's my advice to everyone.

Loadout

Revolver: Enforcer or L'etranger

Sapper: Default

Knife: Default

Watch: Dead Ringer



Upgrades

In order of priority

1. Armor Penetration (Knife)/Robot Sapper Power (Sapper)/+10% Attack Speed (Knife)

Much like in normal play, your knife is the biggest game changer. Instantly killing any enemy, in mvm, it does HUGE damage when maxed out, usually allowing you to kill most Giant Bots in about 4-6 stabs if your team keeps up the pressure. As a Spy, it's your job to go for these bots as often as possible.

As for your sapper, remember, it disables groups, it does NOT deal damage. So use it as a crowd control device, sap a single enemy, and watch the group of bots stop dead in their tracks, allowing you or your allies to mop up.

Also, since you usually get only 2 stabs normally, it helps to upgrade the attack speed of your knife as well, that way you can get in some extra backstabs on the giant bots before you need to feign.



2. Spy Base Buffs Health Regen/Blast Resistance/Bullet Resistance

Your next goal is to beef up your Spy, as in make him a little more sturdy. Toss points into health regen, Blast Resistance, Bullet Resistance, these will keep you alive, and as long as you stay alive, you can keep dealing damage to bots and keep groups under control.

You can dump credits into fire resistance since I don't recommend using the Spy Cicle in this game mode. 15 seconds is a LONG time, you don't want to risk losing your knife at any point during this game mode, so just dump points into fire resistance instead. Crit Resistance is also useful.



3. For dealing with tanks, buff your gun's speed, and get some crit canteens

For choosing which gun you want, it's best to go with the L'etranger if you have some crit canteens ready, as the Cloak Restoration will be useful in giving you feigns you can use. Otherwise, use the Enforcer, you'll need to deal as much damage as possible to the Tank when it comes around, and the faster firing speed buffs and crit canteens completely nullify all of the downsides of the Enforcer.

Basically, you're choosing between damage output, and utility, I personally will perfer the L'etranger since dealing with Giant bots is probably the most effective way to get the job done. That and crit canteens will make up for the L'etranger lack of damage.




Your High Priority Targets

1. Giant Bots

Stab them, as fast as you can, feign, rinse and repeat. Use L'etranger to get more cloak if you need it.



2. Sentry Busters

Sap them when they appear, and help your team get rid of them.



3. Spy, Sniper, and Medic Bots

Stab the Spies and Snipers, sap Medic groups to stop the heals and possible ubers.


Expect an Addendum within the next few months, this should be simple to cover.

[GentleMad]

What's wrong with using DR with the kunai? :confused:

the health buff gives you the protection that the DR gives, using both would just be overkill on the safety side.