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So_Useless
03-10-2010, 09:15 PM
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalstringresize.png

Imagine, now, if the wall sections that the portals are attached to begin to retract back into the wall. What happens to the string? Obviously it would break, but due to what force? Nothing is actually touching the string. Consider my mind boggled.

Edit: Assume that the portals don't disappear when the wall moves.

Edit 2: Thanks to all of you for answering the first question. Fascinating Stuff.
Much less of a "mindbender," But some interesting trivia;

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalmaxheightresize.png

I would do the calculations myself, but I haven't started physics courses yet, and I can't seem to find the maximum possible terminal velocity for a human body. The average terminal velocity seems to be 54 m/s, but that is just a random position, not one intended to produce the least drag possible.

Edit 3: More Pictures. Because I can.
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalwaterresize.png
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalcrushresize.png

Finked-out
03-10-2010, 09:18 PM
5 stars. mind boggled. People. we need more threads like this. nice picture.

SnowCold
03-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Portals dissappear when the surface moves

So_Useless
03-10-2010, 09:31 PM
Portals dissappear when the surface moves

This is true. Let's assume, hypothetically, that it isn't. For fun. After all, The earth is in constant motion, so that's really more of a game play than physics thing, or you couldn't make stable portals at all... You know... if any of it were real...

Blaze T Dragon
03-10-2010, 09:47 PM
It breaks as if the string were attached to 2 crates that were being separated. While it appears that there would be no force to pull apart the string, really the portals just serve to over-complicate things, just like aperture intended. The way they've bent space the string ends up pulling on it self, as if there were 2 people pulling on each end of the string, and that's where the energy of the panels moving apart turns into the energy the eventually tears the string into one piece.

So_Useless
03-10-2010, 09:56 PM
I was thinking the same thing, but it seemed far fetched that the string could tear itself apart.

The Mayor
03-10-2010, 10:07 PM
But the idea of portals isn't?

So_Useless
03-10-2010, 10:09 PM
HEY! Do I go to YOUR job and slap the man-chickens out of YOUR mouth?
Yeah. Kind of odd how I file portals under acceptable breaks from reality but scoff at the idea of a piece of string tearing itself in twain.

Blaze T Dragon
03-10-2010, 10:12 PM
Well actually, the string could tear itself into only one piece if set up properly.

smash
03-10-2010, 10:14 PM
Portals dissappear when the surface moves
But, all surfaces move relative to where they are. The earth is spinning, you know. ;)


...Sorry...

youknow
03-10-2010, 10:16 PM
I guess this is one of the reasons why Valve didn't program moving portals in Portal.

claypool
03-10-2010, 10:53 PM
So let me get this straight...

It's a single piece of string tied to itself through a portal, yes?

If so, then the string would either untie itself or snap. When the portals move, it's like pulling on the string, making it tighter, etc etc. So either the knot would untie itself from the forces pulling on either side, or the string would simply snap as if you were pulling on a string in real life.

Kahrandras
03-10-2010, 11:17 PM
So, what you have here is a loop.
It probably would pull itself apart. But it would be acting on itself.

You're increasing the distance that the string can occupy. This is similar to stretching a loop, only you get half the tolerance.

maststef
03-10-2010, 11:27 PM
But, all surfaces move relative to where they are. The earth is spinning, you know. ;)


...Sorry...
But fixed to earth portals are not moving relatively to each other. For example, you are not moving relatively to me, assuming we both sit in front of our computers right now.
Sorry... ;)

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.

Even if you could built it, the string would crack at its weakest point, to ensure the law of energy conservation. The portals would work like a wall where the strings are fixed.

It does not make sense to discuss these kind of question because our laws of physics simply don't allow these kind of constructions. You can only discuss this what would happen if we had other laws of nature, for examples. But we know that our world would not exist if we had other laws.

Goggalor
03-10-2010, 11:36 PM
The string would stretch and break. Odd part of it is thinking of where the string is anchored, in this case to itself. Nice mind bender though :)

DecimaeGeminae
03-11-2010, 12:17 AM
But fixed to earth portals are not moving relatively to each other. For example, you are not moving relatively to me, assuming we both sit in front of our computers right now.
Sorry... ;)

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.

Even if you could built it, the string would crack at its weakest point, to ensure the law of energy conservation. The portals would work like a wall where the strings are fixed.

It does not make sense to discuss these kind of question because our laws of physics simply don't allow these kind of constructions. You can only discuss this what would happen if we had other laws of nature, for examples. But we know that our world would not exist if we had other laws.

Why don't the laws of physics allow the portal to suck a lot of energy from the portal gun to convert in potential energy? I mean, aperture science managed to make orbs of energy, even a permanent one, so it wouldn't be so hard for them to create a huge source of power.(maybe the portal gun is collecting matter and uses it's matter-energy, Ematter = mc^2?).

If portals are instant, the cord will snap. Otherwise, it might pull in from the other portals, causing it to duplicate and to create a paradox(so it's likely they're instant).

Directx10
03-11-2010, 03:50 AM
But fixed to earth portals are not moving relatively to each other. For example, you are not moving relatively to me, assuming we both sit in front of our computers right now.
Sorry... ;)

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.

Even if you could built it, the string would crack at its weakest point, to ensure the law of energy conservation. The portals would work like a wall where the strings are fixed.

It does not make sense to discuss these kind of question because our laws of physics simply don't allow these kind of constructions. You can only discuss this what would happen if we had other laws of nature, for examples. But we know that our world would not exist if we had other laws.

way to ruin our fun :o

shas_mal_caor
03-11-2010, 04:12 AM
To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.


But what you describe is not a perpetual motion machine as the energy generated by your motor is highly unlikely to produce more energy than the energy expenditure needed to keep the portals open. The portals are effectively two ends of a Einstein-Rosen bridge which would require energy to maintain. When calculating energy conservation you must include the entire system not just one part, the portals are integral to the system you describe.

The example of falling is just that falling through the portals, effectively a permanent skydive, you will reach terminal velocity, you are still under the effects of gravity. It is just that the Einstein-Rosen bridge is a shortcut through the space-time continuum to the other portal and therefore does not alter your current velocity on entering/exiting the portal (which is simultaneous).

Mike_Bson
03-11-2010, 04:12 AM
The portals would make an infinitely long tube, and everything inside will be trapped.

Solarmech
03-11-2010, 05:42 AM
But, all surfaces move relative to where they are. The earth is spinning, you know. ;)


...Sorry...

No your not. :)

I think the correct statement is that portals when placed, cannot be moved reletive to each other. This movement breaks the wormhole connection. sm

Moose Muscles
03-11-2010, 06:19 AM
the string would break at the weakest point. it does not get any longer*** therefore when the portal moves away from the knot the string is still a fixed length. It cannot stretch too much before pulling out the knot or breaking at an arbitrary point of weakness...

plus dont forget the know is heavier than any avg point on the string, therefore as the forces of tension pull outward (towards portals in both directions) gravity is also pulling downward.

simple answer: broken becomes it [yoda voice]

redban
03-11-2010, 06:27 AM
MY MIND
IS FRIED

Patcher
03-11-2010, 06:50 AM
But fixed to earth portals are not moving relatively to each other. For example, you are not moving relatively to me, assuming we both sit in front of our computers right now.
Sorry... ;)

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.

Even if you could built it, the string would crack at its weakest point, to ensure the law of energy conservation. The portals would work like a wall where the strings are fixed.

It does not make sense to discuss these kind of question because our laws of physics simply don't allow these kind of constructions. You can only discuss this what would happen if we had other laws of nature, for examples. But we know that our world would not exist if we had other laws.

Portals is possible. We just don't know how to do them. Imagine that you have travelled 2000 years back. Now try to explain them PC, monitors and most of that - videogames. I don't think they will say it's possible in any way. Or go to 1950 and say to the main computer scientist: "In 50 years, a simple 2$ electronic watch that you wear on your hand have more processing power that all of computers on earth now"
Remember this post when you will be teleporting to your job.

zapmunk
03-11-2010, 06:53 AM
the string would snap

Sgt. Boner
03-11-2010, 01:11 PM
:eek:

noemis
03-11-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm normally a lurker on these forums (this being my first post) but the problem with energy conservation and Portals is best looked at with the "jump in portal and fall into portal" problem - as pointed out by maststef. The main problem is that the portals in-game don't represent what would really happen, in that the portals don't transmit gravity - if you were to jump into a portal with the exit above you, you'd oscillate in and out of the portals as gravitational force is emitted by the top portal - thus, no violation of 1st law of thermodynamics. Now, coming to the question mentioned, pulling the portals apart would result in the string being stretched by itself the string is likely to snap once past critical tension.
I'm a physicist, and yes, we do think like this.

Twilight Mage
03-11-2010, 01:41 PM
The string is pulling on itself and thus either the knot or the string will break at a point.

Moving on to the next puzzle:
What happens if you stand between two portals as they move together?
You're crushed by yourself.

Next puzzle:
What happens if a portal travels through another portal?
The portals would end up locking in a way that blocks you from putting one through another any further. Other than that you'd just end up having a slightly more complex loop than you can normally get with two portals.

Anyone got more puzzles?

acdervis
03-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Well, what would happen if you stood between them and the walls started closing on you?

Moose Muscles
03-11-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm normally a lurker on these forums (this being my first post) but the problem with energy conservation and Portals is best looked at with the "jump in portal and fall into portal" problem - as pointed out by maststef. The main problem is that the portals in-game don't represent what would really happen, in that the portals don't transmit gravity - if you were to jump into a portal with the exit above you, you'd oscillate in and out of the portals as gravitational force is emitted by the top portal - thus, no violation of 1st law of thermodynamics. Now, coming to the question mentioned, pulling the portals apart would result in the string being stretched by itself the string is likely to snap once past critical tension.
I'm a physicist, and yes, we do think like this.

I too am a physicist, and I certify this message

Moose Muscles
03-11-2010, 01:46 PM
Well, what would happen if you stood between them and the walls started closing on you?

half man bear pig half hoopy the hoop would beat you to death with gordon freemans arm still clutching a crowbar

Errorl
03-11-2010, 01:48 PM
But, all surfaces move relative to where they are. The earth is spinning, you know. ;)


...Sorry...

End of discussion :p

PycBouH
03-11-2010, 02:12 PM
This picture (nicely drawn, btw!) blew my mind. You know what it is? It's perpetuum mobile: string pulling itself. As a matter of fact, if you make some solid tube, put it though portals, seal it with itself and put it on some support so it will be in the air and able to go back and forth freely at the same time, and give it some motion in one of the directions, it will go forever! %)

Quakerman
03-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Imagine, now, if the wall sections that the portals are attached to begin to retract back into the wall. What happens to the string? Obviously it would break, but due to what force? Nothing is actually touching the string. Consider my mind boggled.

Edit: Assume that the portals don't disappear when the wall moves.

It's like when you tie the string around a ballon and then you blow the ballon, making it grow.... the pression is due to yourself blowing the ballon. In this case, the pression is due to yourself moving the portals

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy).

In fact, it could be possible to violate the conservation of momentum admitting that the portals are giving energy to the system. In this case, they will necessarily fade away given enough time. Haha don't worry I don't believe in such things :p

Zechnophobe
03-11-2010, 02:24 PM
I think the question is where does the 'force' come from, and I think the answer is that the force comes from the same source as the force which moves the walls.

Consider if you hold a loop of string, tied to itself, in your hands. You push the loop onto a cone, and push the string down onto the fatter and fatter end of the cone, until it snaps. Where did the force come from? You pushing down on it.

Similarly, if the force pulling the walls apart were insufficient, the tautness of the string would prevent them from continuing to pull apart, so those are your two opposite forces.

shuaRx
03-11-2010, 02:25 PM
edit: crap ninja'd^
I hope this explains it. consider the portals just to be two sides of a doorway, split the doorway in half and make the space in between the back of them infinitely (spelled wrong in the pic) small.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/shuaisme/pseudoform/conundrum.png
So essentially the string would be pulling on itself, and the distance it has to span gets wider.

Consider this though, would the walls have to exert extra force to break the string? The same amount of force as if you had just tied the string to the walls.

Bajeezus
03-11-2010, 02:37 PM
The string is tied to nothing, so it would just fall to the ground.

VinLAURiA
03-11-2010, 09:15 PM
Similarly, if the force pulling the walls apart were insufficient, the tautness of the string would prevent them from continuing to pull apart, so those are your two opposite forces.
I don't know about this part. The string is in no way touching the portals, they are merely doorways. It has no means to exert any force on the walls. If anything, I'd see the portals exerting an infinite, "uncancellable" amount of force on the string as the very fabric of reality would be pulling it apart.

I've still got a better question, though. Say you have a movable plane - a wide concrete block, the side of a cardboard box, a plank of wood, anything - with an orange portal on it, just large enough to fit the portal.

You have blue portal on a wall. You insert this plane into the portal lengthwise. What exactly would happen here? To demonstrate (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5963/portaldox.png)...

Chrome235
03-11-2010, 09:18 PM
...and this is why portals don't exist in real life.

thorvan
03-11-2010, 09:32 PM
I've still got a better question, though. Say you have a movable plane - a wide concrete block, the side of a cardboard box, a plank of wood, anything - with an orange portal on it, just large enough to fit the portal.

You have blue portal on a wall. You insert this plane into the portal lengthwise. What exactly would happen here? To demonstrate (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5963/portaldox.png)...
I would assume that the end of the orange portal board would come out of the... huh. Wait, I have an answer, just give me a second to draw it it out.

VinLAURiA
03-11-2010, 09:36 PM
Good luck with that.

Chrome235
03-11-2010, 09:39 PM
The orange portal would come out of the orange portal. Hence the paradox. End 'O story.

charlysotelo2
03-11-2010, 09:39 PM
what would happen if instead of the portals moving, you just pull the knot towards you?

Zechnophobe
03-11-2010, 09:45 PM
I don't know about this part. The string is in no way touching the portals, they are merely doorways. It has no means to exert any force on the walls. If anything, I'd see the portals exerting an infinite, "uncancellable" amount of force on the string as the very fabric of reality would be pulling it apart.


Well, that's not really consistent with anything. I understand that we are talking about fictional technology, but the whole point behind this is to determine if there is any way to CONSISTENTLY describe something.

I would say that the only force that can be applied lengthwise on the rope is the force of tension. The rope is being required to increases its tension when you move the portals apart. The amount of tension increased is based solely on the distance between the two portals right? Only after a certain amount of tension on the rope is made will it break, meaning that the force increases as the portals move.

So I think it makes the most sense to say that force is then required to move the portal, in addition to the force required to physically move the object the portal is on.

This portal displacement force is the 'equal and opposite' force to the tension in the rope.

Honestly, the real mistake that I think is being made, is the assumption that a portal is 'attached to a surface'. In any workable model that I can immediately think of, moving the slabs would simply cause the portal to hover in mid air, not cause it to move.

VinLAURiA
03-11-2010, 09:48 PM
what would happen if instead of the portals moving, you just pull the knot towards you?

That's a lot easier to equate with real physics. The string would just snap, because each side of the knot would be pulled on with a hand (albeit the same hand) with the one "wall" that the portals create making a cutting motion.

That's not that hard of a one to figure out. Despite the screwing with physics, that's a clear cutting force.

The real problem with problems like these is how much portals completely ♥♥♥♥ the very concept of topology. When the concept itself becomes a physical force capable of being changed (especially when it's the topology of physical space itself), that's when things start to get very, very screwy.

VinLAURiA
03-11-2010, 09:54 PM
Well, that's not really consistent with anything. I understand that we are talking about fictional technology, but the whole point behind this is to determine if there is any way to CONSISTENTLY describe something.

I would say that the only force that can be applied lengthwise on the rope is the force of tension. The rope is being required to increases its tension when you move the portals apart. The amount of tension increased is based solely on the distance between the two portals right? Only after a certain amount of tension on the rope is made will it break, meaning that the force increases as the portals move.

So I think it makes the most sense to say that force is then required to move the portal, in addition to the force required to physically move the object the portal is on.

This portal displacement force is the 'equal and opposite' force to the tension in the rope.

Honestly, the real mistake that I think is being made, is the assumption that a portal is 'attached to a surface'. In any workable model that I can immediately think of, moving the slabs would simply cause the portal to hover in mid air, not cause it to move.

Well, just remember this: run water between portals on the floor and ceiling and it would fall forever. Put a generator wheel under that stream, infinite energy. I'd say this potential for infinity can apply either to a force of finite power over an infinite amount of time (as with the water wheel), or an infinitely strong force in one finite instant (as with the string.)

Basically, nothing can withstand the force of the fabric of space itself pulling it apart.

(Whoops, doublepost.)

So_Useless
03-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Fun stuff, here, and there is a new question in the original post. It's more of a useless trivia thing rather than a mind bender. If you feel like considering another mind-boggling application of portals, take a metal drum and saw it in half vertically so that you have two half-pipes. Discard one half and place the other inside a portal loop as shown in the string picture. Weld the half-pipe to itself so that it looks like as if it doesn't end when looking lengthwise down the loop. Commence pouring water into the half pipe loop. I might make a diagram of this, just for the lulz, but I don't have time right now.

Fluffles
03-12-2010, 07:22 PM
If you jump into a portal from a height and get flung back out of a portal the momentum-time graph would be p=cot(t+π/2) with a restriction of t>0.
Or a graph looking much the same, but instead having a horizontal point of inflection at 0.

There is actually no increase of height, because the velocity curve of a fall due to gravity is a perfect x^2.
And if we count in friction, then the curve would be lessened each time, so you would actually lose height...

surfrock22
03-12-2010, 07:54 PM
Well, what would happen if you stood between them and the walls started closing on you?

Now this.. this concept really blows my mind.

Would you be crushed to death? And, if so, by what force? A lack of "space"?

SteveJoe11
03-12-2010, 08:37 PM
The string would not break, it would simply fall to the floor. The length of the string is the length between the portals + whatver the curve is adding to it, the string was at this length when it was put through the portal and tied to itself. The string is essentially tied in a loop, and is anchored to the bottom of the portal.

EDIT: Misunderstood; the string would brake due to the force of the portals moving apart.

So_Useless
03-12-2010, 08:45 PM
Now this.. this concept really blows my mind.

Would you be crushed to death? And, if so, by what force? A lack of "space"?

This was discussed in another thread and the general consensus is that your body would crush itself due to a lack of space for it to occupy. The part that I would love to see answered is whether your body can apply any force to the walls that the portals are "attached" to. If so, they walls would probably break before anything truly spectacular happened. However, if not, there is nothing to stop you from being crushed into... a black hole maybe? Certainly any matter caught in between the portals as the wall sections closed would be very densely compacted.

Moleculor
03-12-2010, 09:43 PM
Answer to second question (terminal velocity down, distance traveled upwards once passed through portal):

Assuming this takes place on Earth, and we're using a terminal velocity of 56m/s, the distance traveled upwards would be 160 meters.

phillipjfry6
03-13-2010, 12:12 AM
Someone get Steven Hawking.

leahcim
03-13-2010, 02:39 AM
Someone get Steven Hawking.

Why what's he done this time?

Still pretending to be an American with that fancy accent? He's from North London you know...pretentious.

Randomspoon
03-13-2010, 05:09 AM
I have it in my head that touching the edge of a portal would be a very bad idea, due to my assumption that given the edge has no thickness, it could cut through anything and everything with ease.

Am i right in thinking this?

Orannis
03-13-2010, 06:55 AM
Why what's he done this time?

Still pretending to be an American with that fancy accent? He's from North London you know...pretentious.

Well it's not as if he asked for it. He's kind of stuck with it.

Huzzah
03-13-2010, 07:34 AM
This was discussed in another thread and the general consensus is that your body would crush itself due to a lack of space for it to occupy. The part that I would love to see answered is whether your body can apply any force to the walls that the portals are "attached" to. If so, they walls would probably break before anything truly spectacular happened. However, if not, there is nothing to stop you from being crushed into... a black hole maybe? Certainly any matter caught in between the portals as the wall sections closed would be very densely compacted.

I don't think it would become a black hole, because the platforms that have the portals on them wouldn't have the strength to push the portals that close together.

Takkenrakker
03-13-2010, 08:14 AM
The front of the string is broken apart by the back of the string.

So_Useless
03-13-2010, 08:22 AM
I don't think it would become a black hole, because the platforms that have the portals on them wouldn't have the strength to push the portals that close together.

I was thinking that as well, but if the substance between the two portals can't push back on the platforms because the portals prevent them from exerting the "Opposite Reaction" from Newton's third law, the strength of the platforms doesn't matter, right? All that would really matter was how well the surfaces were aligned. I'm not entirely sure about this, though. I'm simply speculating.

So_Useless
03-13-2010, 08:23 AM
Answer to second question (terminal velocity down, distance traveled upwards once passed through portal):

Assuming this takes place on Earth, and we're using a terminal velocity of 56m/s, the distance traveled upwards would be 160 meters.

Cool. Anyone who has happened by this thread have any map making knowledge? I would love to test this in-game.

danm36
03-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Cool. Anyone who has happened by this thread have any map making knowledge? I would love to test this in-game.

Sadly, the terminal velocity in portal isn't quite the same as it is on earth. You could probably set it to that ingame via the console, though I havn't tried.

surfrock22
03-13-2010, 10:31 AM
This was discussed in another thread and the general consensus is that your body would crush itself due to a lack of space for it to occupy. The part that I would love to see answered is whether your body can apply any force to the walls that the portals are "attached" to. If so, they walls would probably break before anything truly spectacular happened. However, if not, there is nothing to stop you from being crushed into... a black hole maybe? Certainly any matter caught in between the portals as the wall sections closed would be very densely compacted.

I really don't see any other outcome. I'll ask:

Is there an alternative to this theory? Again, what force is actually crushing the person? I thought there was no such thing as "no space"? How could, essentially nothing, crush something? :confused:

For example, if there were no portals, the person would obviously be crushed, by "space". Insert the portals, and what is actually going to crush that person?

Edit:

Wouldn't you be essentially crushing yourself?

Artemirr
03-13-2010, 11:06 AM
I read this, a lot of it is intriguing debate. We also are having a lot of perceptions and assumptions. One assumption is that the portal is actually being created on a surface of an object. It could be just being created with in that space itself and it just needs a flat surface to emulate a quantifiable plane. Thus itself has no baring or effect ion any object or its surroundings, simply put it is a doorway in space. Its energy and use is not thoroughly explained but perhaps it would utilize antimatter which in itself would explain it in some sort of law avoidance in the matter state. As mentioned previously it is true no matter or particle is to be completely stationary, every single particle, querk, quark whatever is always in motion. Some say that is the state of decay. If antimatter could be utilized perhaps it would break these fundamental theories that everything has motion of some sorts, via vibrating. Then again Absolute zero is the temperature where molecules stop moving so we have entered into another quandary. There is contradicting information though because there are microwaves and all sorts of different structures absolute zero is said to be impossible. Therefore if the portal is just a door way like a mirror one can walk through, is the matter entering it being destroyed at the same time it is being created? Almost instantly? So for every portal one enters they are committing suicide but yet being reborn? What is the exact state of death is it the part of destruction of our matter that is death or is it the state of ones being that is death? Matter cannot be created nor destroyed still holds true, although some misconceptions are out there so far all we have done is change the states of matter. Such as the forth state is super fluidity or plasma or something. Now here is a real puzzler.
http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/e144/nytimes.html
It is said they created matter and its antimatter component, I think its very presumptuous but then again it is tangible, but science cannot exist without doubt it is why its always in a continued study. Its why perhaps matter can be created out of nothing, but if matter can be created how is it destroyed, removed from space once it is created. Thus this leads back to the portal dilemma. I think that’s all I am going to think about it for now lol. I love science and I always enjoy new discoveries that squash old theories. Nothing in science is absolute, as with the laws of nature, they just keep getting bent.

Takkenrakker
03-13-2010, 11:09 AM
I read this, a lot of it is intriguing debate. We also are having a lot of perceptions and assumptions. One assumption is that the portal is actually being created on a surface of an object. It could be just being created with in that space itself and it just ...

Epic +rep

Stranger63
03-13-2010, 04:45 PM
This thread made me smile. I remember thinking ages ago that since the portals in Portal allow for perpetual motion of an object, you could use them to harness a never-ending supply of clean energy.

Fluffles
03-13-2010, 06:44 PM
This thread made me smile. I remember thinking ages ago that since the portals in Portal allow for perpetual motion of an object, you could use them to harness a never-ending supply of clean energy.

Oh yeah... but how do you harness it?
If you get a perpetually falling object at its maximum velocity, how do you get the energy out of it?

Ninto55
03-13-2010, 06:45 PM
Okay now I'm not exactly a scientist or anything, hell I barely know anything, but this topic was a good read. I am still very interested in the putting one portal into another. I have an idea, it'll be easier to explain with a picture I ill make after this post. (I'm going to go ahead and apologize now, I only have MS paint and I suck at it anyway so don't expect anything good) Hoever I feel lie it'll end up inside out in a way. Like if there were a creature that only was a mouth and it ate itself. One would assume it'd go inside out right? Well that may happen with portals.

Also Artimerr's post just ble my mind! However if portal weren't on walls then they would be able to be made in thin air. Infact it'd probobly make a portal right in the portal gun as it is being fired with this logic. But like I said I ain't no scientist ;)

Fluffles
03-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Okay now I'm not exactly a scientist or anything, hell I barely know anything, but this topic was a good read. I am still very interested in the putting one portal into another. I have an idea, it'll be easier to explain with a picture I ill make after this post. (I'm going to go ahead and apologize now, I only have MS paint and I suck at it anyway so don't expect anything good) Hoever I feel lie it'll end up inside out in a way. Like if there were a creature that only was a mouth and it ate itself. One would assume it'd go inside out right? Well that may happen with portals.

Also Artimerr's post just ble my mind! However if portal weren't on walls then they would be able to be made in thin air. Infact it'd probobly make a portal right in the portal gun as it is being fired with this logic. But like I said I ain't no scientist ;)

Can't happen. When you lean forward to eat the back of your head you head will move forward, away from the your head (through the other portal)
You'd be able to eat your own feet... but whats the point?

(and you'd be able to orally pleasure yourself... I mean what?)

Ninto55
03-13-2010, 07:05 PM
Can't happen. When you lean forward to eat the back of your head you head will move forward, away from the your head (through the other portal)
You'd be able to eat your own feet... but whats the point?

(and you'd be able to orally pleasure yourself... I mean what?)

When I said eat itself I didn't mean it would use portals. I mean if it just life it's upper lip over the bottem and somehow ate itself. Of course such a creature would never exist and if it did I doubt it'd eat itself. Also as for your pleasure yourself thing, yeah we've all had that idea. Where's the Garry's Mod pic of Chell doing this?

However I could not figure out how to illistrate that but I'm sure you know what I mean. Granted we will probobly never learn what an inside out portal would look like if it would even look like anything other then the same as the outside or a black hole. Yet I did manage to make another theory, a bit more of an obvious one but none of the others show any pictures of it.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5558/portaltheory1.png

It is all explained in there. Once again I apologize for the poor quality but it is all I can do. Besides even if I had better stuff I have no idea how to put it to use. Whatever. Please tell me what you thin of my theory and I'm sure there are many contradictions as there are when any amature 'scientist' (Calling me that is a compliment!) is creating theories based on video game physics.

So_Useless
03-13-2010, 07:47 PM
Well, the orange portal would come out of itself, I agree with that. That would become some kind of horrifyingly complicated fractal if you kept pushing it through, I'm sure. Though, given that the portals seem to be the exact same width, I don't think you could even put one through the other more than halfway. I'm not sure what would happen if you went through one of the portals in this hellish fractal, though...

Artemirr
03-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Well I see what your saying, but wouldn’t you not be able to go through the overlapping part, since you would be blocking yourself. >.> Essentially it would be like jumping into a mirror and knocking yourself out... I suppose though you could use that to your advantage and climb into the portal holding yourself up with the overlapping part. Then if your portals are that close what is the point. Who knows. Something else to ponder is space itself... once again matter in each point in space actually never touches anything else but interacts at a special level of attraction, beyond that who knows. If matter requires a certain amount of space and it can be created but not destroyed then we have a infinite universe and the space we see represents how much matter there is. But matter unlike space is attracted to itself and pulls itself back to a whole, or at least tries to or the opposite it pushes itself away. Unless one could destroy space and collapse it in on itself then perhaps we are destroying space and matter at the same time. That which is not destroyed is hurdled across, yet more space. That’s only in thinking if space and matter are equally balanced. So if you pinched your fingers together the space in-between your fingers is pretty much as vast as the entire universe (infinite) depending on your perspective. When pinching your fingers together you have an infinite amount of space between your fingers, its just so infinitely small you can’t perceive it. Likewise as infinitely big, but then we have super string but beyond that something smaller, currently individuals are trying to find the building blocks of the universe, if one is to find that would it mean that the universe is finite?. Perhaps matter is what created space? Thus it always was, and it was space that gave matter direction. We know something weird happens when too much matter gets together it begins folding in on itself collapsing what we think is the space around itself, thus becoming a whole again... That itself is purely speculative on what it actually it does. I don’t know though that is a tangent of other theories though. Then again Einstein took the fastest thing in the universe and squared it. Perhaps it’s possible with a portal. >.> lol

Huzzah
03-13-2010, 09:18 PM
Answer to second question (terminal velocity down, distance traveled upwards once passed through portal):

Assuming this takes place on Earth, and we're using a terminal velocity of 56m/s, the distance traveled upwards would be 160 meters.

The terminal velocity of a human in that position is 210 mph, or 939 m/s after some math.

Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080412205510AAEu62v

I have no idea how to calculate the distance, so ill leave that to you.

EDIT: I may be wrong

Artemirr
03-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Makes sense... In the world of Source there is no dynamic particle resistence, to a character. The enviroment is very well young in dynamics. I guess to calculate it you would need to know what your rate of loss is traveling upwords. Then again it would be a geometric calculation I think for everytime you travel a certain distance you would exponetial lose more distance and speed... its late and I lost an hour so I will sleep on it lol

claypool
03-14-2010, 12:56 AM
In response to your second picture:

You're suggesting that the maximum velocity of an object will produce it's maximum height? I'm a bit confused. But it won't go as high as you may think, because the force of gravity is acting upon it. On the way down, gravity helps the object gain momentum and speed, but when moving upwards, gravity quickly slows down the object, thus reducing it's maximum height.

So_Useless
03-14-2010, 09:57 AM
In response to your second picture:

You're suggesting that the maximum velocity of an object will produce it's maximum height? I'm a bit confused. But it won't go as high as you may think, because the force of gravity is acting upon it. On the way down, gravity helps the object gain momentum and speed, but when moving upwards, gravity quickly slows down the object, thus reducing it's maximum height.

I mean that if you enter one ground portal going at terminal velocity, your exit speed from the other portal is the highest that it can possibly be without external assistance (being fired from a cannon etc.) Therefore, as long as you are gaining momentum via falling, there is a theoretical maximum possible height that you can gain via flinging yourself in this way.

In other words, if you jumped out of an airplane and went into one of the portals shown, you wouldn't go all the way back up to the airplane. You would go the maximum possible height allowed by the physics of portal flinging, and I simply want to know what that height is.

psihomir2
03-14-2010, 10:39 AM
This thread reminds me of a picture I used to use as an avatar some time back... no idea where it came from tho :D http://i42.tinypic.com/1fv610.jpg

PycBouH
03-14-2010, 12:51 PM
This thread reminds me of a picture I used to use as an avatar some time back... no idea where it came from tho :D http://i42.tinypic.com/1fv610.jpg
You know, if you do not perform this correctly, you may stuck spinning in this pose forever!

Ninto55
03-14-2010, 01:01 PM
This thread reminds me of a picture I used to use as an avatar some time back... no idea where it came from tho :D http://i42.tinypic.com/1fv610.jpg

That would be awesome!:D:cool:

uber_hobo
03-14-2010, 01:03 PM
My mind! It is mush!!

Dark Flesh
03-14-2010, 01:27 PM
I just want to say something to the String Theory .. I think that the String will just fall out of the portals as they move away ...
Couse no Force is Keeping the String Weld to the Portals and or Wals which move...
Its like you would place something on 2 Crates and move the Crates aways ;)

Midnitte1
03-14-2010, 01:36 PM
What happens to the string if you place one of the portals elsewhere?

So_Useless
03-14-2010, 01:42 PM
What happens to the string if you place one of the portals elsewhere?

Wow... I don't even know. Well, since the portals can dislodge cameras from the wall, they must be able to exert some force when being formed. So I imagine it would simply cut the string. Though, nothing other than the cameras ever gets damaged by a portal. Things just get pushed to one side or the other. To answer that, I think we would need more information about how the portals would work.

legice
03-14-2010, 02:31 PM
image strange,thinking hurts...must...stop
rep for idea=)

arrararts
03-14-2010, 02:39 PM
What happens to the string if you place one of the portals elsewhere?

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv326/sentryman/portalstring.jpg

I drew this quickly in MS paint, not a masterpiece but you get the idea what would happen, I imagine the string would just be cut where the blue portal was and fall from the middle

Midnitte1
03-14-2010, 02:52 PM
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv326/sentryman/portalstring.jpg

I drew this quickly in MS paint, not a masterpiece but you get the idea what would happen, I imagine the string would just be cut where the blue portal was and fall from the middle

hm fair enough, I think if the panels were to crush somebody between two portals they would be pushed into a singularity, my reason for this being that they have density but would no longer take up any space. Reasonable no? =)

MADDOGGE
03-14-2010, 03:40 PM
It would be like a Mobus strip. Once you tied the ends together you could pull forever either way. It's easier to visualize using a rope or garden hose.

Artemirr
03-14-2010, 04:38 PM
Thats almost funny you could litterally tie both ends of a rope toegther without bending it. Therefore I Suppsoe it would be cut if the portal was closed... it would make for an interesting pulley system...

vivaramjetjr
03-14-2010, 06:26 PM
You have blue portal on a wall. You insert this plane into the portal lengthwise. What exactly would happen here?

This. (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1933/portalinfinity.jpg/)

nod113
03-14-2010, 06:31 PM
This. (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1933/portalinfinity.jpg/)

404 Image not found?

Coconut
03-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Oh yeah... but how do you harness it?
If you get a perpetually falling object at its maximum velocity, how do you get the energy out of it?

There are no doubt several ways portals can be used to give infinite energy.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lad79t.jpg

So_Useless
03-14-2010, 07:34 PM
There are no doubt several ways portals can be used to give infinite energy.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lad79t.jpg

The portals probably take more energy to maintain than you could get out of the system. If that somehow isn't the case, It would be awesome/hilarious to see portal-based turbine energy rooms in portal 2.

Sgt. Boner
03-14-2010, 07:37 PM
This. (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1933/portalinfinity.jpg/)

Derp. (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1933/portalinfinity.jpg)

Coconut
03-14-2010, 07:52 PM
The portals probably take more energy to maintain than you could get out of the system. If that somehow isn't the case, It would be awesome/hilarious to see portal-based turbine energy rooms in portal 2.

Where from do these portals pull the energy it takes to maintain them?

So_Useless
03-14-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm not certain...

ZeroPlus
03-14-2010, 08:04 PM
strange things seem to happen when you put portals onto movable objects. I thought of these a while ago:
1. What if you had a stationary portal on the floor, and the other on the underside of a card table, and you reached through the portal on the floor, grabbed the edges of the portal, and pulled up? Would the card table rise into the air?
2. What would happen if you put one portal on the floor, another on the underside of a card table (held above floor portal), held an object between the two, and dropped both the table and the object? it'd get caught between the two portals... then what?
3. What if you put one portal on the floor, another on the underside of a card table, put the table portal-side down on the floor, and stood on the floor portal? you'd be standing on the floor just under the card table, but then what if someone lifted the table into the air? would the person standing on the floor portal feel the floor under his feet slowly lower, or would he feel the room around him rise up?
4. http://lolblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dividebyzero.jpg

EllOhEll
03-14-2010, 08:05 PM
Where from do these portals pull the energy it takes to maintain them?

Perhaps they use negative energy?

youknow
03-14-2010, 08:45 PM
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalcrushresize.png

Now that... that'll kill you.

Blaze T Dragon
03-14-2010, 09:08 PM
The portals probably take more energy to maintain than you could get out of the system. If that somehow isn't the case, It would be awesome/hilarious to see portal-based turbine energy rooms in portal 2.

Maybe that's how it's managed to still have power, despite there being (probably) nobody left to make electricity after several hundred years. Maybe near the end of the game you'll be wandering around the back rooms again, and somewhere there'll be a room/hallway with windows that show a portal turbine.

Also, what exactly is going on here (http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalwaterresize.png)? I'm just wondering if I'm missing the thing that makes this a brain-buster.

So_Useless
03-14-2010, 09:13 PM
Maybe that's how it's managed to still have power, despite there being (probably) nobody left to make electricity after several hundred years. Maybe near the end of the game you'll be wandering around the back rooms again, and somewhere there'll be a room/hallway with windows that show a portal turbine.

Also, what exactly is going on here (http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalwaterresize.png)? I'm just wondering if I'm missing the thing that makes this a brain-buster.

A trough connected to itself through a portal filling up with water. Perhaps its simply my lax understanding of the thing, but it would be interesting to see how the water interacts with itself at the edges of the portal. Now that I think about it, it would probably act like any two sources of water would when meeting one another. Not terribly interesting.

ThermalSausage
03-14-2010, 10:21 PM
Wouldn't the guy in between the two portals be crushed by himself? As he goes through the portal he's being pushed into himself, arm being pushed against his side etc.

Very bizarre, love it.

surfrock22
03-14-2010, 10:26 PM
That's exactly what I was thinking..

Polendino
03-14-2010, 10:31 PM
These are why Portals dissipate on moving platforms.

Anyway; I lol'd pretty hard at the pipe filed with water. It'd need to have flexible joiners on it, to connect it to itself. Then; INFINITE WATERSLIDE YEAH!

Another one; Imagine a large syringe in between two Portals. The syringe is removing water from itself.

:O

Hiroshima
03-14-2010, 10:42 PM
In 1 and 2 the ends of the pipe would crush the ends. And the second one he would be squashed on either side by his shoulder to shoulder until its flat.

trogdor1424
03-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Have you realized that there may NOT be portals?

VinLAURiA
03-15-2010, 12:38 AM
I have it in my head that touching the edge of a portal would be a very bad idea, due to my assumption that given the edge has no thickness, it could cut through anything and everything with ease.

Am i right in thinking this?

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought this...

Well, the orange portal would come out of itself, I agree with that. That would become some kind of horrifyingly complicated fractal if you kept pushing it through, I'm sure. Though, given that the portals seem to be the exact same width, I don't think you could even put one through the other more than halfway. I'm not sure what would happen if you went through one of the portals in this hellish fractal, though...

This is why I put the orange portal on its side yet kept it vertical - it's not as wide as the blue portal is tall, so it would fit.

marciohuser
03-15-2010, 04:10 AM
But fixed to earth portals are not moving relatively to each other. For example, you are not moving relatively to me, assuming we both sit in front of our computers right now.
Sorry... ;)

To solve the problem:
The problem is no problem. It assumes that these kind of portals would be possible in real life. They are not. The portals in the game violate the law of conservation of momentum (and with it the law of conservation of energy). You can jump in a portal fall, accelerate, and fall with the new speed in the same portal again and again... Now replace "you" with water and place a wheel between the portals. Connect it to a power generator. Now you have a pertuum mobile of the first kind. But that's impossible. So the question makes no sense.In that case, it is not perpetual: you expend energy to keep the portals open. It would be if the wheel where the sole source of energy to keep the portals.

reameesh
03-15-2010, 06:07 AM
Portals dissappear when the surface moves

Then what would happen with the string? Would it get stuck in the wall`? :confused:

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 06:16 AM
I just know i would put the orange portal in my neighbors closet and the blue one at the bottom of the drop off for the atlantic shelf

halogen4
03-15-2010, 08:34 AM
Placing a portal into another one
Now from my understanding this is what will happen. Say we place a portal on 2 pieces of metal just large enough for the portal to fit on. Now lets assume the portal remains on the metal piece regardless if it is moving or not. Now if one pushes the orange portal into the blue it will come out as Ninto55 picture shows on page 5 and not a fractal in my opinion:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5558/portaltheory1.png

Now if you keep pushing it through the blue portal, the orange portals horizontal length will just get smaller while its vertical height increases. This will happen till the metal plates on which both portals are found stop the movement from going any further through.

My question is based on this picture:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalcrushresize.png

Since the person will be crushed because of his own body due to lack of space my question is will the walls pushing the portals experience "resistant" forces of the body pushing back out or will it go completely smoothly in the crushing of the poor victim? At first I suspected that the walls would be subjected to an equal opposite reaction of crushing the person but then I realised that the portals will subject no force on the walls what so ever.....do you agree? If this is true then two guys each holding a metal plate with a portal on it will be able to crush anything regardless of the crushing force normally required to crush it if i am making sense.

Also on the topic of the second picture what happens to matter trapped in the portals once they are fully close (blue portal touching orange portal)? Does the matter collapse on itself and becoming nothingness, does it exploded before it can disappear, does a black hole form?

Well I know this is still pure friction but is still interesting

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 09:21 AM
Placing a portal into another one
Since the person will be crushed because of his own body due to lack of space my question is will the walls pushing the portals experience "resistant" forces of the body pushing back out or will it go completely smoothly in the crushing of the poor victim? At first I suspected that the walls would be subjected to an equal opposite reaction of crushing the person but then I realised that the portals will subject no force on the walls what so ever.....do you agree? If this is true then two guys each holding a metal plate with a portal on it will be able to crush anything regardless of the crushing force normally required to crush it if i am making sense.

Also on the topic of the second picture what happens to matter trapped in the portals once they are fully close (blue portal touching orange portal)? Does the matter collapse on itself and becoming nothingness, does it exploded before it can disappear, does a black hole form?

Well I know this is still pure friction but is still interesting

In our world, everything experiences forces (whether they are opposing or not). Therefore the walls would be subject to these forces. The portals are not plasma, high heat, high energy beams or any other destructive nature (which is why we can safely pass through them). You would feel the same effects as shoppers at walmart on black friday, being crushed by other bodies, for this case the body crushing you is your own.

the second part, a black hole would not form. Forget black hole as a mythological space phenomena. A black whole, according to my physics professors, PH.D in astronomy is an infinitely small point in space that yields gravitational fields larger than anything else in existence do to that insanely small piece of nothingness having an infinite amount of mass. No black hole here.

Hope that helps a little in your mind blowing portal experiment. At least thats whay my B.S. in Physics can lend you at the moment, feel free to ask anything.

MADDOGGE
03-15-2010, 09:48 AM
Don't think Portals' portals have anything to do with black holes period. They are more dimensional doorways. If you got squished between two of them, I think you would just be endlessly moving between them.

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 09:51 AM
Don't think Portals' portals have anything to do with black holes period. They are more dimensional doorways. If you got squished between two of them, I think you would just be endlessly moving between them.

what about when they are moved so close together there is less than a half inch between them?

Artemirr
03-15-2010, 10:18 AM
Okay, makes sense though but you are saying that the portal is actually a point, but yet we see it more then that. What happens if it is formed from a single point, then do to some crazy innovations multiple amounts of points were created from a single point and then pushed apart from each other forming a passable area to walk through? Like a soap bubble? The main structure is the perimeter of the portal which is created by multiple points. The perimeter of the portal exerts a large amount of force where as the center area is balanced to the current area. Using this method the balance would have to be not geometric but in linear design that way the body would not be crushed by a difference of exerted forces through out the portal. Then again were assuming the portal has anything to do with a black hole. If matter can give us thought and life, can we reformat matter and bend it to our will? For the most part we can order it around and utilize it in rudimentary methods so in essence we are already doing this to matter; but could we go beyond and give all matter life like qualities? Or is it already alive? We are also assuming that both points in space are connected.
If you had an orange glass and a blue glass and you wanted to move the say the liquid of the blue glass to the orange glass without moving them. Gravity manipulation would be an interesting way. Were still in the mind set of attached ratios though, objects having to move from point A to B and that both these points have to be connected by something. If one is to inifinitize themselves in some matter would they then be everywhere at once. Let’s say for instance that in the future humans are no longer biological beings but more technological advanced HAI machines that transferred their conscience over. If by ordering matter into such precision and one was to collapse them self to an infinitely small piece of matter at will and vice versa. Could one travel anywhere at any moment, simply by stretching infinitely in one direction? Then we are still utilizing A to B principles but bending them through gravitational distortion. Since matter is so ordered and giving specific points to be in, rematerializing wouldn’t be a problem. Thus being infinitely small one wouldn’t even risk in endangering themselves with a collision. Still doesn’t answer the portal question though only leaves more questions to be answered! I need pie.

danm36
03-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Placing a portal into another one
Now from my understanding this is what will happen. Say we place a portal on 2 pieces of metal just large enough for the portal to fit on. Now lets assume the portal remains on the metal piece regardless if it is moving or not. Now if one pushes the orange portal into the blue it will come out as Ninto55 picture shows on page 5 and not a fractal in my opinion:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5558/portaltheory1.png

Now if you keep pushing it through the blue portal, the orange portals horizontal length will just get smaller while its vertical height increases. This will happen till the metal plates on which both portals are found stop the movement from going any further through.

My question is based on this picture:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/So_Useless/Portalcrushresize.png

Since the person will be crushed because of his own body due to lack of space my question is will the walls pushing the portals experience "resistant" forces of the body pushing back out or will it go completely smoothly in the crushing of the poor victim? At first I suspected that the walls would be subjected to an equal opposite reaction of crushing the person but then I realised that the portals will subject no force on the walls what so ever.....do you agree? If this is true then two guys each holding a metal plate with a portal on it will be able to crush anything regardless of the crushing force normally required to crush it if i am making sense.

Also on the topic of the second picture what happens to matter trapped in the portals once they are fully close (blue portal touching orange portal)? Does the matter collapse on itself and becoming nothingness, does it exploded before it can disappear, does a black hole form?

Well I know this is still pure friction but is still interesting

(My hypothesis)

Because the portals are nothing but empty space, the walls themselves would probably need almost no force to crush anything (It's super effective!). Think of mirrors, and pushing them together.

From your drawing, the portal walls are not sealed, so you won't be sub-atomically crushed, but rather pasted sidewards in a similar effect to the combine energy ball explosion halo.

Artemirr
03-15-2010, 10:30 AM
more to think about.

If an infinite amount of parallel universes exist and they are all exactly the same. Then portal works as a rift between them. It’s sort of like hacking the universe by traveling to another dimension all at the same time in order to go from point A to point B. Thus the need of travel from A – B still exists but bent again. Really one would be traveling from A to A but arriving at B(in another universe that is parallel).

danm36
03-15-2010, 10:39 AM
more to think about.

If an infinite amount of parallel universes exist and they are all exactly the same. Then portal works as a rift between them. It’s sort of like hacking the universe by traveling to another dimension all at the same time in order to go from point A to point B. Thus the need of travel from A – B still exists but bent again. Really one would be traveling from A to A but arriving at B(in another universe that is parallel).

This is what I think about with time. When you travel backwards or forwards in time, you do so in your universe/dimension, but when you arrive, you suddenly enter a duplicate universe/dimension, from which you can kill your father with no paradox crap.

MADDOGGE
03-15-2010, 10:45 AM
what about when they are moved so close together there is less than a half inch between them?
The blender effect perhaps? LOL, haven't a clue. Thats what makes these kinds of threads fun.

Maybe it's like finding a limit in mathematics. You can get very very close but they will never touch.

danm36
03-15-2010, 10:47 AM
I have decided to begin programming something that can simulate all these conundrums efficiently and below 4000 degrees K

Rumina
03-15-2010, 10:54 AM
I really don't see any other outcome. I'll ask:

Is there an alternative to this theory? Again, what force is actually crushing the person? I thought there was no such thing as "no space"? How could, essentially nothing, crush something? :confused:

For example, if there were no portals, the person would obviously be crushed, by "space". Insert the portals, and what is actually going to crush that person?

Edit:

Wouldn't you be essentially crushing yourself?

The force of the person is crushing himself, the portals simply over complicate things. It's not much different than two walls closing in on a person, the person is just closing in on himself. They would be crushed and all of what was left would be pushed out between where the portals met.

What makes this interesting is that it would take no extra force to do this upon contact. If 2 portals were being held on giant boards by two people walking towards each other with the test subject in the middle, the two testers would experience be met with no resistance in essentially liquefying the test subject.

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 11:03 AM
look up quantum tunneling.

There is no guarantee that you can sit in the chair without falling through it (particle by particle, atom by atom). It is just highly(very low uncertainty) probable that you will remain on top of the chair, and on the other hand highly improbable (very high uncertainty) that you will go through the chair.

No I do not mean break through the chair, remember quantum leap, going through walls and that type of sci fi stuff.

dont know how pertinent this is to the conversation, if anything, it will kill some time for you doing some google searches. If your anything like me, my office job right now while the university is on spring break blows, no students on campus mean no students keeping me busy with judicials, lock outs, blah blah blah... So 9-5 I'm super forum active.

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 11:04 AM
liquefying the test subject.

"add ice, shaken not stirred, 2 olives, success" - my hannibal lector conscious

bonechatters
03-15-2010, 11:10 AM
New puzzle.


One portal is normal size. The linked portal is half size.

Commence the headaches.

Moose Muscles
03-15-2010, 11:16 AM
New puzzle.


One portal is normal size. The linked portal is half size.

Commence the headaches.

easy, gary coleman comes out singing "we want the funk"

Artemirr
03-15-2010, 11:17 AM
hmm interesting... would you come out smaller... would you come out crushed, or would you have to squeeze and suck in your belly to get through.

Ninto55
03-15-2010, 01:54 PM
Well I remember some timeback someone was creating a game where you would go through one portal and be smaller in the other, or go into the small one and come out larger. He was going to use these for puzzles but I think he stopped development. It had nothing to do with Portal though. I'll find the link to the video soon. It was called Portaled I think.

Ninto55
03-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I can't seem to find it, however I saw it on Gamefaqs Portal board. So if one of you can find it then good on you.

On another note I would like to see a custom map with two walls close together then to put two portals on the walls. When I say close I mean the closest you can get two walls in the game. Then no clip into it and see how the game reacts.

Artemirr
03-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Kingdom of Hearts "Alice and wonderland" with the doors. You go in one and come out a different size in the other.

Coconut
03-15-2010, 02:57 PM
hmm interesting... would you come out smaller...

That would be bad if you put a big portal on the floor and a small portal on the ceiling and fell a few times...

Ninto55
03-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Yeah generally it would let you get infinatly smaller, or larger.

Rumina
03-15-2010, 05:23 PM
New puzzle.


One portal is normal size. The linked portal is half size.

Commence the headaches.

I'm not sure that is possible, they're the same doorway and I believe they can't exist in varying size.

Girog
03-15-2010, 05:47 PM
Now, most people here are thinking of this as something extremely complicated. It's not.


The guy being crushed by portals- Push your hands together. The same thing would happen, only there would be a portal between them.

The string- Pull a piece of string. Remember that what goes into a portal goes directly out of the next one. There is no middleman. Only the data put into the portal can be taken out. The string will remain the same length. Imagine putting a string through a portal. Instead of tying it together, imagine holding either end of the string. Do you imagine it being pulled taught? That's because you're holding the string with both hands. The same goes for tying it together, except it's the string that would be pulling itself taught. Remember- the portals aren't gateways to another reality. They're gateways to our own.

The water- The water will just flow back and forth. Once again, remember that the portals transfer "data" from one location to another. It will react with the other end of the water the same way it would react if you poured two cups into the same vessel. Actually, it would be pouring ONE cup into the same vessel.

leahcim
03-15-2010, 06:02 PM
easy, gary coleman comes out singing "we want the funk"

What'choo talkin' 'bout, Moose?

VinLAURiA
03-15-2010, 11:25 PM
I always figured that, in the event that the portals weren't the same size/shape, as in the case of the "smaller portal" problem, it would be much like if there was only one portal fired what with the portal-colored glowing wall thing. Only here, it would apply to any area not shared by the other portal.

Like in this (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5791/portalgate.png) example, using two hypothetical non-oval portals that are linked, but different shapes from each other. It makes the most sense in my opinion, considering how we know portals work.

So_Useless
03-15-2010, 11:31 PM
I always figured that, in the event that the portals weren't the same size/shape, as in the case of the "smaller portal" problem, it would be much like if there was only one portal fired what with the portal-colored glowing wall thing. Only here, it would apply to any area not shared by the other portal.

Like in this (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5791/portalgate.png) example, using two hypothetical non-oval portals that are linked, but different shapes from each other. It makes the most sense in my opinion, considering how we know portals work.

That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the excess, unportaled area would collapse into a shape that is suitable to both portals. Perhaps that is what already happens, and that's why they are both the same size. Interesting speculation?

Moose Muscles
03-16-2010, 08:00 AM
we should alert the people at CERN, let them know of our finds of portal transport and the safety precautions of making the portals exactly the same size...they will be pleased

Artemirr
03-16-2010, 11:20 AM
I missed my science loop on this but I thought I would share it.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/41539

Moose Muscles
03-16-2010, 11:24 AM
I missed my science loop on this but I thought I would share it.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/41539

nice find, interesting stuff...i specifically like the orange circle on the left side of the diagram, it would be nice if it were followed by a blue circle on the right with the arrow leading from orange to blue :cool:

shoop
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
This 'passing one portal through another' question keeps popping up so I created the following:

http://i.imgur.com/e8QFk.gif

Someone asked if the results would be the same if the blocks took up considerably less space. Indeed they would:

http://i.imgur.com/muyuH.gif

The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant. It will always be constrained by its own size and shape.

Some of you guys aren't thinking clearly enough about it. Remember that if you were to pass 25% of an object through a portal, the other 75% of it would come out. In this situation, 100% of both portals are right in front of you at all times. Nothing is disappearing, there are no paradoxes here.

Ninto55
03-16-2010, 01:22 PM
This 'passing one portal through another' question keeps popping up so I created the following:

http://i.imgur.com/e8QFk.gif

Someone asked if the results would be the same if the blocks took up considerably less space. Indeed they would:

http://i.imgur.com/muyuH.gif

The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant. It will always be constrained by its own size and shape.

Some of you guys aren't thinking clearly enough about it. Remember that if you were to pass 25% of an object through a portal, the other 75% of it would come out. In this situation, 100% of both portals are right in front of you at all times. Nothing is disappearing, there are no paradoxes here.

First of all your first picture dosen't show it right. I see the portal going into it, but what you forgot was as you push the portal down the rest of it has to come down too. So it should only be able to go about 50% in. Unless you do it on the edges at which point the portal would be too wide to even go in 50%.

Secondly the angle of the portal does matter. However I'm not really sure how to explain it :p but I'm sure someone else will get it. However if you put it in sidewas it won't fit due to portals being the same size. It's hard to explain via text and I am too bad with MS Paint to illustrate it.

shoop
03-16-2010, 01:28 PM
First of all your first picture dosen't show it right. I see the portal going into it, but what you forgot was as you push the portal down the rest of it has to come down too. So it should only be able to go about 50% in. Unless you do it on the edges at which point the portal would be too wide to even go in 50%.

Secondly the angle of the portal does matter. However I'm not really sure how to explain it :p but I'm sure someone else will get it. However if you put it in sidewas it won't fit due to portals being the same size. It's hard to explain via text and I am too bad with MS Paint to illustrate it.

I believe we are in agreement here. When I said "The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant." What I meant was, no matter which way you try to squeeze that portal in there, it isn't going to go all the way through.

Ninto55
03-16-2010, 01:29 PM
I believe we are in agreement here. When I said "The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant." What I meant was, no matter which way you try to squeeze that portal in there, it isn't going to go all the way through.

Ah, well then that makes sence, just misunderstood.

Moose Muscles
03-16-2010, 01:31 PM
I believe we are in agreement here. When I said "The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant." What I meant was, no matter which way you try to squeeze that portal in there, it isn't going to go all the way through.

i was literally about to say this...you guys are on the same path

i will say that the angle does matter, it effects the direction that the portal is angled as it exits itself.

^^^that being said, it is geometrically impossible to pull that off.

Claybay1
03-16-2010, 01:49 PM
Now, most people here are thinking of this as something extremely complicated. It's not.


The guy being crushed by portals- Push your hands together. The same thing would happen, only there would be a portal between them.

The string- Pull a piece of string. Remember that what goes into a portal goes directly out of the next one. There is no middleman. Only the data put into the portal can be taken out. The string will remain the same length. Imagine putting a string through a portal. Instead of tying it together, imagine holding either end of the string. Do you imagine it being pulled taught? That's because you're holding the string with both hands. The same goes for tying it together, except it's the string that would be pulling itself taught. Remember- the portals aren't gateways to another reality. They're gateways to our own.

The water- The water will just flow back and forth. Once again, remember that the portals transfer "data" from one location to another. It will react with the other end of the water the same way it would react if you poured two cups into the same vessel. Actually, it would be pouring ONE cup into the same vessel.
Yeah this is it.

danm36
03-16-2010, 02:16 PM
This 'passing one portal through another' question keeps popping up so I created the following:

http://i.imgur.com/e8QFk.gif

Someone asked if the results would be the same if the blocks took up considerably less space. Indeed they would:

http://i.imgur.com/muyuH.gif

The shape of the object going through, and the angle it goes through at are irrelevant. It will always be constrained by its own size and shape.

Some of you guys aren't thinking clearly enough about it. Remember that if you were to pass 25% of an object through a portal, the other 75% of it would come out. In this situation, 100% of both portals are right in front of you at all times. Nothing is disappearing, there are no paradoxes here.

Finally, someone understands this conundrum in the same way as me. The portal will collide with the edge of the other portal. Simples.

zapmunk
03-16-2010, 03:33 PM
Now, most people here are thinking of this as something extremely complicated. It's not.


The guy being crushed by portals- Push your hands together. The same thing would happen, only there would be a portal between them.

The string- Pull a piece of string. Remember that what goes into a portal goes directly out of the next one. There is no middleman. Only the data put into the portal can be taken out. The string will remain the same length. Imagine putting a string through a portal. Instead of tying it together, imagine holding either end of the string. Do you imagine it being pulled taught? That's because you're holding the string with both hands. The same goes for tying it together, except it's the string that would be pulling itself taught. Remember- the portals aren't gateways to another reality. They're gateways to our own.

The water- The water will just flow back and forth. Once again, remember that the portals transfer "data" from one location to another. It will react with the other end of the water the same way it would react if you poured two cups into the same vessel. Actually, it would be pouring ONE cup into the same vessel.

correct. have a repcookie.

zapmunk
03-16-2010, 03:42 PM
srry for doublepost, but...
imagine 2 paralell portals.
put a long aperture science unenhanced steel rod through one, and weld it to itself.
then, no matter how you move it (without unwelding it) it would remain paralell to its original position!

....|.................................|
....|......steel rod..................|
....|--------------------X------------|
wall|.................................|wall
....|.................................|
....|portal.....................portal|
....|.................................|
the X is the point at which it was welded to itself.

EDIT:
oops. ascii art doesnt work right...

another EDIT:
fixed ascii art

yet another EDIT:
ascii art apperently doesnt work...

EDIT #... umpteen:
another thought...
it one portal was upside-down...
I came to the conclusion that the rod would be stuck in the middle unable to move, since it cant bend-- since moving one end down would move the other up, but those points are attached, so they couldn't move. it seems weird...
anyone care to prove me wrong on this?

Claybay1
03-16-2010, 04:15 PM
srry for doublepost, but...
imagine 2 paralell portals.
put a long aperture science unenhanced steel rod through one, and weld it to itself.
then, no matter how you move it (without unwelding it) it would remain paralell to its original position!

....|.................................|
....|......steel rod..................|
....|--------------------X------------|
wall|.................................|wall
....|.................................|
....|portal.....................portal|
....|.................................|
the X is the point at which it was welded to itself.

EDIT:
oops. ascii art doesnt work right...

another EDIT:
fixed ascii art

yet another EDIT:
ascii art apperently doesnt work...
That would be cool.

L. Power
03-16-2010, 04:20 PM
Ok, another question: why are portals 100% soundproof?

Try, they are!

phantasmic
03-16-2010, 04:27 PM
In regards to the perpetual motion device, would this result in a change in Earth's velocity through the universe? Remember that every object exerts a gravitational force on every other object. The earth exerts a force on you, but you also exert an equal force (I think it's equal...I forget my physics a bit) on the Earth, though since it's so large it isn't noticeable.

In the case of throwing a baseball up and having it fall back down, the earth will shift slightly because of the pull the baseball has on the Earth, though this is equaled out by the force of throwing the ball up and when it touches ground again. With portals though, there is never a point when the object hits the Earth again; it continuously falls and pulls on the earth. Over time would this result in a noticeable change in Earth's velocity?

L. Power
03-16-2010, 04:32 PM
In regards to the perpetual motion device, would this result in a change in Earth's velocity through the universe? Remember that every object exerts a gravitational force on every other object. The earth exerts a force on you, but you also exert an equal force (I think it's equal...I forget my physics a bit) on the Earth, though since it's so large it isn't noticeable.

In the case of throwing a baseball up and having it fall back down, the earth will shift slightly because of the pull the baseball has on the Earth, though this is equaled out by the force of throwing the ball up and when it touches ground again. With portals though, there is never a point when the object hits the Earth again; it continuously falls and pulls on the earth. Over time would this result in a noticeable change in Earth's velocity?

Assuming the portals themselves somehow equal this out, no, but in every other case, good bye sun ;)

marciohuser
03-16-2010, 04:39 PM
srry for doublepost, but...
imagine 2 paralell portals.
put a long aperture science unenhanced steel rod through one, and weld it to itself.
then, no matter how you move it (without unwelding it) it would remain paralell to its original position!

....|.................................|
....|......steel rod..................|
....|--------------------X------------|
wall|.................................|wall
....|.................................|
....|portal.....................portal|
....|.................................|
the X is the point at which it was welded to itself.

EDIT:
oops. ascii art doesnt work right...

another EDIT:
fixed ascii art

yet another EDIT:
ascii art apperently doesnt work...

That's correct. You couldn't rotate it, since it is looped and welded to itself. All you could do is move it paralelly to its original position.

dnsthmnce
03-16-2010, 07:59 PM
In the last picture, I wonder if that person would get a portal-high off the amount of times he will be manipulated between space so many times. Ever millimeter, you would be changing spots until your body is out of the portal rift.

L. Power
03-16-2010, 08:44 PM
In the last picture, I wonder if that person would get a portal-high off the amount of times he will be manipulated between space so many times. Ever millimeter, you would be changing spots until your body is out of the portal rift.

Your own head will crush itself.

Artemirr
03-17-2010, 12:20 AM
Okay after some thinking and pondering I thought I would try to logically put it in my head lol. Here is what I came up with spatially. It is not absolute but meh it was fun.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2898/portalk.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/portalk.jpg/)

I hope this makes sense. I put an Or in there instead of "of" mmake sure you can zoom in to read lol... anyways meh... This is jsut messing with photoshop noway is it intended ot be an emulation of the game.

L. Power
03-17-2010, 07:52 AM
Okay after some thinking and pondering I thought I would try to logically put it in my head lol. Here is what I came up with spatially. It is not absolute but meh it was fun.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2898/portalk.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/portalk.jpg/)

I hope this makes sense. I put an Or in there instead of "of" mmake sure you can zoom in to read lol... anyways meh... This is jsut messing with photoshop noway is it intended ot be an emulation of the game.

Get a new font.

p0rtalplayer
03-17-2010, 07:58 AM
Ok, another question: why are portals 100% soundproof?

Try, they are!

Remember how water doesn't travel through portals? Well then why should air molecules on one side vibrate the air molecules on the other side? SOURCE ENGINE FAIL, that's what.

monkeedude1212
03-17-2010, 08:50 AM
Where from do these portals pull the energy it takes to maintain them?

The Mass thats no longer existant on the surface that you've put the portal on, and the energy never leaves the system, probably breaks a law or two of Thermodynamics, but is completely reversable.

TyreFyre
03-17-2010, 09:01 AM
That's like 2 working portals occupying the exact same spot. You get a mirror that you can walk through. But if you walk through this portal mirror, shouldn't you bump into yourself? +1 SOURCE ENGINE FAIL.

Artemirr
03-17-2010, 12:03 PM
lol hater of my font. Anyways the other day playing portal I was on one of those missions with the glowing ball and the discharging fields. I created a portal and a portal for the ball so it would come out at its intended place. I went into the field just as I was about to enter. Then the Ball disappeared when the portals disappeared but I could still hear it. It was strange, was it bouncing around an invisible space somewhere waiting for me to re-open a portal? More questions unanswered lol.

Ninto55
03-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Yeah the source engine often ♥♥♥♥s up. I say SEFU Source Engine ♥♥♥♥ Up. Spread the word!

However did you try to make a portal after or did the ball disapear or something before you could blast another portal?

L. Power
03-17-2010, 10:47 PM
Remember how water doesn't travel through portals? Well then why should air molecules on one side vibrate the air molecules on the other side? SOURCE ENGINE FAIL, that's what.

Saying Vavle were too lazy to implement it is a solution, but a poor one. Instead you could think of a logical reason, and have some brain crushing thoughts.

zapmunk
03-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Saying Vavle were too lazy to implement it is a solution, but a poor one. Instead you could think of a logical reason, and have some brain crushing thoughts.

or maybe sound should go through, and valve had limited time, money, and team.

hopefully this will be implemented in portal 2...

GannonSlayer143
03-18-2010, 09:10 PM
What would happen if you made a portal big enough to absorb something bigger than earth, let's say Jupiter, then put the other portal in the core of the earth, then sent it through the portal to the center of Earth?

marciohuser
03-18-2010, 09:15 PM
What would happen if you made a portal big enough to absorb something bigger than earth, let's say Jupiter, then put the other portal in the core of the earth, then sent it through the portal to the center of Earth?Lets speculate: you have a very HUGE portal beside Jupiter, and a very small one inside Earth. That's It? Well, hipotetically, Jupiter's mass would be condensed to a much lower size and considering the mass conservation, we would have a REALLY BIG BUM!!! And probably a new tiny star :P

L. Power
03-19-2010, 05:24 AM
I think portals have to have the same size.

leahcim
03-19-2010, 06:31 AM
And probably a new tiny star :P

Unlikely. I dunno the exact additional mass required to make Jupiter shine, but I suspect it's several multiples of Jupiter's mass and not simply mass of Jupiter + Earth.

Besides, it sounds like the plot of 2010 :D

marciohuser
03-19-2010, 07:20 AM
Unlikely. I dunno the exact additional mass required to make Jupiter shine, but I suspect it's several multiples of Jupiter's mass and not simply mass of Jupiter + Earth.

Besides, it sounds like the plot of 2010 :DIts not only a matter of MASS, but density counts too. If you somehow could shrink Jupiter to be the same size of Earth, you would increase its density by 1321.3 (from 1.326 g/cm³ to 1752.0438 g/cm3). Our Sun has a density of 1408 g/cm³, for comparision. Mass would collapse over itself, hence, starting a fusion reaction. Ergo, a new star :) (all this hipotetically, of course).

And the plot of 2010 is correct, it is based on a common astronomy knowledge: if Jupiter were just a little smaller, keeping the same mass, it would collapse due to its own gravity, transforming it into a tiny star

marciohuser
03-19-2010, 07:21 AM
I think portals have to have the same size.Well, considering it is all FICTION, why should it be? :)

ZoSo15
03-19-2010, 10:06 AM
Its not only a matter of MASS, but density counts too. If you somehow could shrink Jupiter to be the same size of Earth, you would increase its density by 1321.3 (from 1.326 g/cm³ to 1752.0438 g/cm3). Our Sun has a density of 1408 g/cm³, for comparision. Mass would collapse over itself, hence, starting a fusion reaction. Ergo, a new star :) (all this hipotetically, of course).


+rep for reading my mind.

Well, considering it is all FICTION, why should it be? :)

SCIENCE fiction tries to break as few rules as possible. That doesn't mean we can't break all of them and speculate on what would happen. But we must remember what is possible and what isn't.

Hit in the Head
03-19-2010, 12:14 PM
The water- The water will just flow back and forth. Once again, remember that the portals transfer "data" from one location to another. It will react with the other end of the water the same way it would react if you poured two cups into the same vessel. Actually, it would be pouring ONE cup into the same vessel.

I think you are just barely off here.

The trough or whatever can be thought of as a circle. The water will fill up, move in whichever direction, overflow, because, according to the picture, it is touching itself.

The person would simply crush themselves (the pic someone posted of a person standing with one foot in either portal on the floor is a good depiction of why that would occur). The string would snap itself.

Still, super-fun brain-teaser.

leahcim
03-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Its not only a matter of MASS, but density counts too. If you somehow could shrink Jupiter to be the same size of Earth

"Somehow", like, err, by adding more mass? :D

The average density of Earth is a lot higher than the sun (I think you got confused between g and kg somewhere) and it's, well, just about the size of the Earth. It aint a star.

At least you got rep I suppose...

chickengod799
03-19-2010, 03:44 PM
1. the portals moved so close they did make a black hole for a second and destroyed the string

marciohuser
03-19-2010, 03:55 PM
"Somehow", like, err, by adding more mass? :D

The average density of Earth is a lot higher than the sun (I think you got confused between g and kg somewhere) and it's, well, just about the size of the Earth. It aint a star.

At least you got rep I suppose...My mistake. I did the account again and that is correct (Sun's density is about 1000 times less than I stated). But even so, if you concentrate that much mass of a planet like Jupiter down to Earth size, things would turn out REALLY ugly.

L. Power
03-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Chuck Norris' density is 2000x higher than your mom's!

And that's saying something!

andyofcomixinc
03-25-2010, 10:23 PM
The crushed in the wall thing, surely you would survive... stuck in a perpetual wormhole created in an infinite Portal loop? So however thick the edges of the wormhole of the Portal are, times that by ∞ and wallah - that's the space you have to occupy. No crushy-crushy!

Edit: Also, concrete slabs pressed together wouldn't really be airtight would it?

Claybay1
03-26-2010, 07:22 PM
The crushed in the wall thing, surely you would survive... stuck in a perpetual wormhole created in an infinite Portal loop? So however thick the edges of the wormhole of the Portal are, times that by ∞ and wallah - that's the space you have to occupy. No crushy-crushy!

Edit: Also, concrete slabs pressed together wouldn't really be airtight would it?
You would be crushed nevertheless...
BY YOURSELF!!

MADDOGGE
03-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Its not only a matter of MASS, but density counts too. If you somehow could shrink Jupiter to be the same size of Earth, you would increase its density by 1321.3 (from 1.326 g/cm³ to 1752.0438 g/cm3). Our Sun has a density of 1408 g/cm³, for comparision. Mass would collapse over itself, hence, starting a fusion reaction. Ergo, a new star :) (all this hipotetically, of course).

And the plot of 2010 is correct, it is based on a common astronomy knowledge: if Jupiter were just a little smaller, keeping the same mass, it would collapse due to its own gravity, transforming it into a tiny starExcuse me but when did mass and density become the same thing. Never mind we are just playing at being scientist here.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=i-have-heard-people-call

rubywoundz
03-26-2010, 08:45 PM
I don't know about this part. The string is in no way touching the portals, they are merely doorways. It has no means to exert any force on the walls. If anything, I'd see the portals exerting an infinite, "uncancellable" amount of force on the string as the very fabric of reality would be pulling it apart.

I've still got a better question, though. Say you have a movable plane - a wide concrete block, the side of a cardboard box, a plank of wood, anything - with an orange portal on it, just large enough to fit the portal.

You have blue portal on a wall. You insert this plane into the portal lengthwise. What exactly would happen here? To demonstrate (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5963/portaldox.png)...It would come out of the orange portal. Since the orange portal is in the blue portal, it would come back out the orange portal, try to occupy the same space as the piece of wood, and destroy the wood, causing the portal to dematerialize.

Stimich
03-26-2010, 08:49 PM
I really didn't get the half-pipe thing filled with water
'cus it will be filled eventually, since the water is moving through both portals, therefore filling the space, so it technically is like if there was walls instead of portals.

Or am I missing the point?:confused:

IcanHazZombys
03-26-2010, 09:48 PM
I think the last one is a good mind bender.


What would happen if "crushed" between two portals? There is no surface to crush you against, but there is also no space for you to occupy.

wade
03-27-2010, 01:31 AM
squish (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4203/squish.gif)

I haven't been following the thread too closely, but I made this for you guys.

moldy_tomato
03-27-2010, 05:51 AM
I skipped most of this thread, so I don't know if something like this has already been discussed.

What will happen when you cut the rope? (http://hemuliman.wippiespace.com/mindboggler.png)
Let's also assume that the box is made of incredibly hard material.

Will the box still be flattened, or will the piece of wall with the blue portal float in the air?

nws703f
03-27-2010, 07:06 AM
I suppose that is EXACTLY why portals don't work on moving surfaces.

Jimmy T Malice
07-15-2010, 09:47 AM
This isn't possible in the first place, unless you have an endless piece of string.

surfrock22
07-15-2010, 01:16 PM
What?

Mike_Bson
07-16-2010, 06:37 AM
I skipped most of this thread, so I don't know if something like this has already been discussed.

What will happen when you cut the rope? (http://hemuliman.wippiespace.com/mindboggler.png)
Let's also assume that the box is made of incredibly hard material.

Will the box still be flattened, or will the piece of wall with the blue portal float in the air?

First, let's assume the box's size is ''one unit''. Right now, the space between the boxes is more than one unit, so it is falling. When the space is exactly one unit wide, the box's top will touch it's bottom through the portal, and vice versa. This would make it so that is portals could not go closer together, kind of like how support beams make the ceiling of a building not touch the floor.

Hardun
07-16-2010, 08:05 AM
For the first one:

If oone portal moved, it would spin, as the rope is a circle being pulled from one end. I think.

santali
07-16-2010, 09:47 PM
For the last picture - the human gets crushed by his own sides.

So_Useless
07-16-2010, 10:18 PM
The questions have all been answered satisfactorily already. You can stop bumping the thread. Unless you have questions of your own to discuss or something to that effect.