What just happened? Did I have/lose the rights to "Elements of War"?

[IceIYIaN]

Let me put this into perspective. I started Elements of War on Half-Life years ago. I quickly moved to Unreal Tournament 2003/4 while dabbing with HL/2. Years of work(and play)!

Today I found out an "Elements of War" game is gonna be released, I assume this year. This is obviously super bad news for me. Plenty of questions arise such as, what rights do I have and what rights do they have? I don't really know much, simply that copyright is kind of protected. When issues arise you have to do something about it.

That battle already seems lost. They single handedly landed a crushin' blow :/
No money
No lawyers
No clue
No time
No help

They're also -way- ahead of me.

[gorpie]

Is it "your" Elements of War? Or did they just use the same name?

[Zekiran]

It's an extremely common sounding name. As Gorpie says, have you checked it out, are they using YOUR actual programming/art, etc, or is it another game entirely not in the Source engine?

If you were making a mod, *you have never owned it and cannot take legal action anyway*. You can squabble about a name, but you don't hold the rights to the engine. If you made dialog, unique art, and that kind of thing which doesn't RELY upon the engine, YOU own those things. You do not, however, own the name - names cannot be copyrighted. Only the final product - a full fledged game - can be copyrighted, and in this case since it's a mod, again - you only own what you yourself MADE.

[squeakyneb]

Pretty much what Zekiran said.

If it turns out that they are using your content and you can prove ownership, then you may have a case. If it only shares the name, tough luck.

[fyter1]

Here is some perspective from a person who actually owns a production company:

Copyright is automatically granted upon the creation or birth of any original material or changes to existing materials. However, in most cases, you are only protected against others using your materials if a) you can prove that you created it yourself using an official registration method or what is commonly called "the poor man's method" (sending a registered postmarked package to yourself via your government's public postal service), or have some other way of offering tangible evidence; b)you act within the statute of limitations of your own government; c) you can prove that it is non-coincidental similarity and that you suffered lossed from it.

A name CAN be protected, but not in the form of a title. In order to have EXCLUSIVE protection the name must be used as a brand (i.e. "Final Fantasy", "Lord of the Rings") AND it must be an uncommonly used word or phrase ("Dog Food" won't pass muster). Complicating things is that you can trademark a brand simply by using it (it's often referred to as "common law trademarking"), but you only have exclusive protection within a limited geographic territory. A registered trademark, however, grants you exclusive rights in the entire country of origin. Most countries limit trademarks to a similar set of products or services (i.e. "Best Destiny" could be registered to a hotel company, but not have protection against a motion picture production company from using the same name, since they offer different services.)

In short: it doesn't matter if it is a mod or full game, you own the rights to any materials you create. You just don't own the rights to the engine. (i.e. Valve can't go knocking on the Black Mesa team's door and say "we're taking this, since we own the engine and name") They can prevent you from selling it, though, and if it is a remake or extension of existing materials, they can drop a "cease-and-desist" order on you (which is required in many places to prevent copyrights from being transferred or considered public domain).

In any case, you should be protected to release your own project as long as you have "prior use" on your side (as long as you published something in regards to it somewhere: website with the name on it, ad in the paper, dated letter mentioning the name and premise). You just might not have exclusive rights to it. It is often pretty tough to prove, too, since dates on files can be changed, letters forged, etc.

On the other hand, they could rip your guts out with lawyer fees just because they can afford it.

[gorpie]

About what fyter said. If you have anything with prior/older dates, SAVE IT. I mean an older compiled mod or whatever.

[IceIYIaN]

So, I pretty much need a trademark. I glanced at this subject forever ago and assumed copyright would be ok.

Ouch, I went to LegalZoom.com and they want $200++ just to SEARCH for the trademark.

Is there a cheaper way to find out what trademarks are taken? Mainly just Elements of War ;)

And what does this mean for me? What happens if somebody else or that game company has the trademark to Elements of War?

[Zekiran]

You can't get a trademark on something that's made with the Source engine. Don't even bother.

Unless you already have a game PRODUCED, you can't even apply for a tm - they give you 12 months TOPS to get something out and it must be *for pay*.

If you want to make a MOD, you must live with the consequences. If you make your own engine and your own whole world and textures, art, music and the like, THEN and only then would you really need to do any trademarking.

Seriously: don't bother worrying about it. Ask the other dev team whether they knew you were already working on something, and if it's a MOD for this source engine, they should back off the name and do something else. However, I note that your page has been up since 2k5 and I don't even really know whether it's functional as a mod? If someone else actually gets something out before you, yes, you're SOL in terms of who wants to PLAY it.

We don't have all the information yet either.

** Is THEIR game a half-life source mod?
** Have any of their devs ever worked with you on yours?

Those things really do make a difference in what advice I can give you. Right now, it stands as above: you cannot trademark something you cannot legally sell. You don't hold the rights to the GAME. You only hold YOUR creative efforts. You cannot sell this mod - ever - since it is a MOD. No trademark lawyer in the world would offer you a tm on someone else's engine. I don't think you really understand how these coverages work.

Copyright covers a finalized, fully released "item" - a poem, a song lyric, a recorded song, a video game, a movie.
Trademark covers the distinct likenesses, logos, and key words - superman (no one in their right mind messes with superman, that S in a diamond shape is very, very distinct), Valve's 'source logo' lambda, Gordon Freeman's image.
Patents (which you see the information on the opening screen of every game about who owns what technology) may also be involved in games because of the engine programming.

You cannot copyright a single word or short phrase.
If someone already holds a Trademark, you would be violating their rights if you attempted to market, produce or sell (or make any kind of dent in their customership) something *similar enough* to be confused. This is why you cannot sell Valve's source engine games. THEY own that engine, period. If someone messed with it, and sold the product they made, say a terrible game that didn't work and had lots of bugs, and kept the Valve appearances - it would dilute Valve's work.

So... I would just say "ask them what they're doing". However, if this isn't a mod off of a source engine, and some company has a real live other engine game they've been working on, tough luck - it's theirs.

[IceIYIaN]

It's a game you buy:
http://www.playnatic.com/en/projects/EOW/

I also found this book:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Elements-Of-War/Jonathan-Lopez/e/9781438994406

As for my mod being sold, haha that's a laugh. However, Elements of War: 1337 Board isn't a joke and I could probably sell that. Before it was like, oh, I can make like ten dollars. But lose like, *insert how much it costs to make a company and that good stuff* too much. Now it's like crap I've gotta get the trademark at all costs!

[gorpie]

Their game "Elements of War" sounds completely different from your mod. And I've seen you refer to yours as "Elements of War: 1337"--unless that's only when you're talking about the board.

There are two different Ravenholm mods I see talked about. One is just "Ravenholm", the other is "Ravenholm - The Lost Chapter".

You could copyright your name, not trademark it. But what would be the point? You don't/can't make any money off of it anyway. As long as there are distinctions between Elements of War the mod (yours) and Elements of War the RTS game (theirs) I don't know if there's a legal conflict with the name.

[General Frags]

You only need to trademark/copyright a name if you intend to make money out of it, the best option would be to email those developers of the other game and explain to them about your mod and to see what they say, there shouldn't be a problem as you aren't making money out of it and they have probably trademarked the name beforehand.

[Zekiran]

It's a game you buy:
http://www.playnatic.com/en/projects/EOW/

I also found this book:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Elements-Of-War/Jonathan-Lopez/e/9781438994406

As for my mod being sold, haha that's a laugh. However, Elements of War: 1337 Board isn't a joke and I could probably sell that. Before it was like, oh, I can make like ten dollars. But lose like, *insert how much it costs to make a company and that good stuff* too much. Now it's like crap I've gotta get the trademark at all costs!

really, no. You don't need a trademark on something as vague as "elements of war" - what Gorpie said is right, EOM 1337 perhaps could be a tm IF you made it into a full-blown site with its own product line.

Seriously - just work on your mod and enjoy the mod community. It's not going to overlap in any way.

[gorpie]

I was thinking more of a copyright for EOW 1337, rather than a trademark. But I'm not necessarily up on legal/business things...

[IceIYIaN]

I don't really think you guys get it. I started Elements of War YEARS ago. COUNTLESS text files, images, you name it. I just assumed copyright was ok. Then somebody else swoops in and takes "World of WarCraft, Half-Life, Halo, whatever"! I didn't even think that was possible.

Now if somebody owns the rights to the Elements of War name that isn't me, they can stop me from doing -anything- with Elements of War. Sure, it's just a mod. But I wanted to take Elements of War to the next level, games, books, movies, whatever.

Without Elements of War I have to create a new title. HOW do you replace Elements of War? Then I have to edit the game files. I'm talking boring, tedious work... An insane amount of it. They can also probably take ElementsofWar.net

Then, after all that, I spend the next three years working on that title. Bam, another company finally gets the idea to use the name or outright takes the name.

It's like, what's the point if I don't even have any protection?

[gorpie]

I would see a lawyer.

[Zekiran]

I don't really think you guys get it. I started Elements of War YEARS ago. COUNTLESS text files, images, you name it. I just assumed copyright was ok. Then somebody else swoops in and takes "World of WarCraft, Half-Life, Halo, whatever"! I didn't even think that was possible.

I don't think you understand how copyright works AT ALL.

You are making a MOD. That mod is based on another product. This is called "derivative work" and is only able to cover what YOU PERSONALLY did. If YOU made a piece of art for this project then YOU hold the copyright on that piece of art. However you cannot sell this MOD since you do not HOLD the rights to the engine - period.

Now if somebody owns the rights to the Elements of War name that isn't me, they can stop me from doing -anything- with Elements of War. Sure, it's just a mod. But I wanted to take Elements of War to the next level, games, books, movies, whatever.

You can't have made any money off the mod, and quite frankly there already ARE books and a movie with the title. You're not understanding how this all works. And yes - this IS how it works: you didn't get it published in time, and didn't work on your own project with your own program (which they DID, it is not a derived work, as yours clearly is), so that's the breaks.

Without Elements of War I have to create a new title. HOW do you replace Elements of War? Then I have to edit the game files. I'm talking boring, tedious work... An insane amount of it. They can also probably take ElementsofWar.net

If you're already paying for your .net, make sure your registration is kept up and they *cannot* take it from you. You don't need to rename it, just use it's full title of elements of war - 1337. That's distinct from just "elements of war". PLUS you're really reading a lot into this... They don't know or CARE whether you're making a mod off someone else's engine. They have their own. You are not competing with them. You CAN have the same name.

Then, after all that, I spend the next three years working on that title. Bam, another company finally gets the idea to use the name or outright takes the name.
You didn't own the property, you didn't publish anything unique, you cannot claim the name. It is a *COMMON* name, common enough that it's already been in use - do a google search.

It's like, what's the point if I don't even have any protection?

You do. On what YOU have created. You didn't make the engine for this mod. Period. You do not hold the rights to it. Period. You cannot make any money off this product unless you have your OWN program, your OWN art. It must be UNIQUE TO YOU if you want to do any of those things you mentioned with it.

If you wrote a screenplay and brought it to Hollywood and then admitted, "oh yeah there was this game mod I made from the Source software, that's what this is from" they wouldn't TOUCH it - that's trademark infringement if it looks even remotely like someone else's existing work!

If you want to make your own project, be aware that you need to have the work AND RESEARCH done before hand.

The people who "stole" the name were likely working on their project just as long with people who were being PAID to do so - including a legal team to figure out their tm's and whatever else, distribution and the like. They stole nothing - if they didn't actually take what you particularly made FOR your project - artwork, specific written information (not names, not titles which are already in use in real life), specific plots which can be proven to have been written out by you (ie: a scan of a note, etc)... You own what you make. But they published first, and yes that means you're SOL on any trademark of the name "Elements of War". But you could not EVER have trademarked it since it was a MOD.

I hope that you understand I'm not trying to be harsh but frankly you have no idea how trades and copyrights work, and yes in point of fact, I do. You're making a mountain out of a molehill - just finish your mod, work on whatever you've got going and forget about their "theft". They didn't steal it. They got it FIRST.

[liamsharkey]

is it same as yur eow

[pash1k]

Movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102538/releaseinfo#akas)

Book (http://www.amazon.com/Elements-War-Isaac-Maltby/dp/114107656X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270222546&sr=1-7)

Music (http://www.amazon.com/Elements-of-War-Explicit/dp/B000R01048/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1270222528&sr=8-2)

Oh oh!!! :eek:

[lanux128]

well for now, googling returns your mod as the 1st result. so who is publishing the game, you might get a cease & desist letter from them if you don't take any pre-emptive actions to protect the "trademark".

• http://www.google.com/search?q=elements+of+war

[DirectVic]

This reminds me of what happened to FireArms. A group of guys working on a mod based on FireArms hacked the official site of the mod to redirect to their own mod (I think it was called FireArms 2 or something to that effect). Now the site is gone, the original mod is almost dead, some other mod called FireArms Source is being worked on, and the original devs are working on a completely different FireArms game.
They couldn't do anything about it, and I'm afraid you can't either. Just relax, mods, movies, games and books with identical or similar names pop up all of the time. Since your mod was released earlier you should be in the clear.

[SIFU]

Well pore mans way of copyrighting,for future referance,say you have a uniuqe name,and story plot,also maps n crap you been working on,backthem all up,put said name of title-with you signature, and ur possable plot notes,and backups ,and mail them to yourself,Uncle sams time n date stamp,an stamp are legaly binding in court,unless they can produce proof of haveing it at an earlyer date,
well at least it works for my artwork,story ideas,ect,ect.as long as that is sealed an if its ur baby,court will be on ur side.

and anyways as others said urs seem deff from the others,Its a mod just keep on truckin,an as other dude says the 1337 thing can help deferintiate your game from theres,and there is no real legal issue.

[Zekiran]

Uncle sams time n date stamp,an stamp are legaly binding in court,unless they can produce proof of haveing it at an earlyer date,

Actually, no they're not. Copyright is automatic but in order to actually defend it, you MUST have it registered with the copyright office and pay for that (c) symbol. They're usually enough to get someone who doesn't have a credible proof in their favor, to back down, however.