Spork!'s Rantings. Includes major power-tip with C4...

[Spork!]

Originally this was a reply to another thread, but it got so long and detailed I figured it would be best to give it it's own thread.

Here goes. It's worth the reading time.

This is hardcore brah, no time to check ammo belt for clips!

Ideally hardcore servers would require you to load your own mags before you spawn. Imagine a screen with a box of ammo, and a magazine/drum/clip(Garand uses a CLIP, a real honest to god CLIP, everything else uses a MAGAZINE!) You must click a bullet from the box and drag it into the top of the magazine, then repeat till the mag is full. You can spend time filling all your mags before you set off, or only fill one or two(saving time) and risk running out and having to do the ammo kit + magazine clicky/drag game again in the middle of the battlefield.


Seriously. You think ammo comes in magazines from the factory? Sounds like you all need a case of mag-thumb from spending a day at the range pulling the trigger 2500 times. (And loading 2500 rounds into 30 round mags... Those last 5-7 rounds are a PITA, trust me.)


(Yes I know there are machine loadable magazines, mostly like the STANAG NATO mag, etc, that are used by armed forces, but I know DAMN WELL that you always have the option of loading your own so you know it's done right. When your balls are in a crunch, can you trust a machine?)

Also, if you think about it. When you load a rifle, there's no way to tell how much is in there. Clear mags help, but most of the time a good portion of it is hidden inside the receiver, so you can glance and say "well I have less than 9 rounds to go".

Also don't get me started on the whole "I'm reloading mid mag, WHY DO I PULL THE CHARGE HANDLE AFTERWARDS?!" Charge handle only needs pulled to put the firearm into battery. Mid mag the rifle is already at battery. I propose two options. ONE: Real life, only pull the charge handle (and add that time to the reload operation) When you're on an empty tube. Mid mag reloads take less time(drop mag, insert new mag. vs drop mag, new mag, charge.)or TWO: Keep it the way it is, but subtract the freaking cartridge that you waste by pulling the charge handle when the rifle already has a cartridge chambered...

Note: Belt fed weapons have their own issues, and I understand changing a whole belt is easier than linking belts. Two man gunner crews can link belts. One man can, but it's easier to slap a new one in and run with it. Charging is required when not linking belts.

While I'm on a gripe roll here. The vulcan style gatling guns in the choppers are modeled on the M197. The M197 is specifically THROTTLED to NOT OVERHEAT with proper ammo. That is the ENTIRE PURPOSE of a gatling gun using 6 or more barrels, so the heat is spread over them evenly, and rotating does help to cool them. I guess it's valid only from a game balance viewpoint, as having a heli with non overheating guns is like Pyro = W+Mouse1 in TF2...

Dice went to such lengths to get the realism right in this game, but the "important" bits are overlooked... For example. Hop on an empty server with a friend, one of you in the T-90 and one of you in an Abrams. Line up on a flat paved surface, and set off at the same time. The Abrams will win the 1/2 mile drag race. BECAUSE in real life, the Abrams has a top speed on an improved surface (road) of 42mph, and the T-90 has an overall top speed of 37mph. Yes I've tested this. Yes I was that bored. I've also determined exactly how many destructible bits are in the 2 story + attic houses, like the 2nd B point in Port Valdez. The answer is 31. I have also determined EXACTLY how to blow one up with only THREE C4 explosives. That's fresh undamaged house, to pile of Destruction 2.0 rubble with 3 charges. Here it is. I did your homework for you so you can make the grade. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFgUf5eVl4

I've studied everything I can to maximize my lethality in game. You should too. I bet very few of you have ever considered these things...

Crap, this rant deserves it's own thread. And so it shall...

[Burbots Revenge]

pls someone tell me if this is worth to read?

[Maizel]

Well the gamemode is hardcore, not 'realism'

[ITF Cho]

pls someone tell me if this is worth to read?

Not really. It's mostly a rant suggesting that would should have to load the individual rounds into our magazines and clips. Loose rounds for everyone!!

Edit:

okay fine - and there's a bit about linking belts, and charging handles, the exact number of destructible explodable bits on a 2 story house (okay - this was somewhat interesting), chaingun overheating, and a roadrace between the two MBTs.

Seriously. You think ammo comes in magazines from the factory?

I seriously think that loose rounds are distributed to soldiers only in very extreme conditions. It's not like the squad leader humps around boxes of loose ammo irl in today's army either.

[Spork!]

I'm glad to see you all read the first two paragraphs and gave up, totally missing the important bits...

Pearls|Swine

[..meatshield..]

nice job with the c4.

only beef is that after you empty the first mag, the bolt is locked back in open bolt position, and does not need to have the charging handle pulled. press the bolt release after inserting mag and gg.

agree that air-mounted vulcans are BS. the ground mounted heavies overheat, as should the miniguns.

[ElChrisman99]

I'm glad to see you all read the first two paragraphs and gave up, totally missing the important bits...

Pearls|Swine


nah i read the entire thing, im a book worm :p

Very nice read it is worth 5 minutes...

U MIGHT LERN SUMTHANG :D

[Ensiferum]

Well it's interesting, thank you for sharing the knowledge :)

But as you said, BFBC2 wants realism, but only in the mood of the game, not in the gameplay. For the gameplay to be realist, it would take a whole other game, not just a gamemode.

I agree though that i'd like to see a SIMULATOR (because that's what you're talking about) with a nice engine, with all the specifics you ask for. But that wasn't and still isn't the objective of BFBC or BF in general.

I understand your rant about the lack of realism, but you only have knowledge of ONE SIDE: the "real-life" side. You obviously don't know how a game is developed. I assure you, learn a bit about the game designing and developing process and you'll understand loads of stuff about why BC2 is the way it is.

(btw nice work on the c4

[Spork!]

Well it's interesting, thank you for sharing the knowledge :)

But as you said, BFBC2 wants realism, but only in the mood of the game, not in the gameplay. For the gameplay to be realist, it would take a whole other game, not just a gamemode.

I agree though that i'd like to see a SIMULATOR (because that's what you're talking about) with a nice engine, with all the specifics you ask for. But that wasn't and still isn't the objective of BFBC or BF in general.

I understand your rant about the lack of realism, but you only have knowledge of ONE SIDE: the "real-life" side. You obviously don't know how a game is developed. I assure you, learn a bit about the game designing and developing process and you'll understand loads of stuff about why BC2 is the way it is.

(btw nice work on the c4

Valid points, but my beef re: realism was the lengths they went to make the game awesome (bullets passing overhead, dopplering, the birds! oh god the BIRDS!) but they overlooked details that should add to the realism. For example the hummvees engine sounds like a gasoline engine, when it is in fact supposed to be a diesel. They gave the Abrams the appropriate gas-turbine sounds vs the T-90's russian diesel tractor engine, so why fudge the humvee?

Also, bear in mind this rant started out regarding people griping about how hardcore wasn't hardcore enough, hence the mag loading minigame I suggested. :)

[Orannis]

If they didn't do the charging handle people could say that there should be an extra bullet in the gun after a reload. Maybe DICE wanted to keep the reload times the same.

The gatling gun thing is there for gameplay too. I really wish they let the APC/Heli pilots have overheat instead of that crappy reload when you can't even tell if you have any bullets left. I've probably fired as many rockets to get the reload as I have fired at a target. Or they could give us a number on the number of rounds remaining.

[Rhodsie]

Actually a good read. I agree with the latter points. I know loading ammo is a PITA as you've described but we play this game for fun, an ammo loading mini game is not very fun. :)

Pretty much everything else I agree with. You mention not knowing your ammo count past about 10 in clear mags but you could always put a tracer as the 5th and 10th to last shot as a warning you are running low. You could really customize how many and how often you used tracers if you really wanted to, like every fifth bullet if you felt the need to. I'd probably do one at 10th to last then 5-1 as all tracers.

As far as magazines go you could use those easy load mags that you put the bullets into from the side (long side of the mag) then you slide the cover over them. I'm kind of disappointed by the plain mags in this game. I'd love to see some PMAGs in the game with varying color.

[Spork!]

Actually a good read. I agree with the latter points. I know loading ammo is a PITA as you've described but we play this game for fun, an ammo loading mini game is not very fun. :)

Pretty much everything else I agree with. You mention not knowing your ammo count past about 10 in clear mags but you could always put a tracer as the 5th and 10th to last shot as a warning you are running low. You could really customize how many and how often you used tracers if you really wanted to, like every fifth bullet if you felt the need to. I'd probably do one at 10th to last then 5-1 as all tracers.

As far as magazines go you could use those easy load mags that you put the bullets into from the side (long side of the mag) then you slide the cover over them. I'm kind of disappointed by the plain mags in this game. I'd love to see some PMAGs in the game with varying color.

I went absolutely ecstatic when I realized the medic XM-8 had a lifelike Beta-C drum mag attached to it. Wheeee!

Also, an occasional misfire, like randomly seeded every 4500 rounds fired would be a fun and exciting bit. Just reload to clear the dud...

[neuromancer]

This should fix all the realism issues (http://store.steampowered.com/app/33900/) :p ;)

[Rhodsie]

I went absolutely ecstatic when I realized the medic XM-8 had a lifelike Beta-C drum mag attached to it. Wheeee!

Also, an occasional misfire, like randomly seeded every 4500 rounds fired would be a fun and exciting bit. Just reload to clear the dud...

Yeah I'd love weapon jamming to be honest, with either a reload or just like in America's Army where you just clear it.

[Rhodsie]

This should fix all the realism issues (http://store.steampowered.com/app/33900/) :p ;)

Before I clicked on that I knew it was going to be ARMA II. :)

[Ensiferum]

Yeah I'd love weapon jamming to be honest, with either a reload or just like in America's Army where you just clear it.

Add that in multi and you will have a bajillion complaint threads because no one, and i mean NO ONE would like to be killed when they had an easy kill, just because their stuff sucks. (and i'm not even talking about the bugs)

It's a GAME, it's targeting a large audience, and the population of hardcore army/guns/etc enthusiasts is not as large as the rest, who just care about the FPS aspect, not the realism aspect.

But as i said before, i totally approve to have some sort of simulator where you're really on your own, with no HUD, no approximation, something that feels like the old Operation Flashpoint, where is was actually ♥♥♥♥-scared in a wood, with my m16 and a sniper i couldn't even spot that could 1-shot me.

[neuromancer]

Nothing wrong with a little predictability :)

How 'bout this:

Every 4-6 hours of gameplay your knife should be replaced with a roll of toilet paper. When this happens you need to use your melee key on a tree which causes you to squat there for 2-3 minutes. Failure to do this will cause your soldier to die of a bowel obstruction which prevents you from joining any server for 1 hour.

[Spork!]

Nothing wrong with a little predictability :)

How 'bout this:

Every 4-6 hours of gameplay your knife should be replaced with a roll of toilet paper. When this happens you need to use your melee key on a tree which causes you to squat there for 2-3 minutes. Failure to do this will cause your soldier to die of a bowel obstruction which prevents you from joining any server for 1 hour.

Heck, they limit playtime in China of WoW for similar reasons. Exploding bladders/colons etc...

[Ensiferum]

Nothing wrong with a little predictability :)

How 'bout this:

Every 4-6 hours of gameplay your knife should be replaced with a roll of toilet paper. When this happens you need to use your melee key on a tree which causes you to squat there for 2-3 minutes. Failure to do this will cause your soldier to die of a bowel obstruction which prevents you from joining any server for 1 hour.

That i'm totally cool with. Actually i would go so far as to add the gameplay that if you get killed in-game, an agent from EA comes and kills you in your house.

[neuromancer]

Heck, they limit playtime in China of WoW for similar reasons. Exploding bladders/colons etc...

LOL good one :)


PS. +rep for the house destruction. GJ with that one.

[ITF Cho]

That i'm totally cool with. Actually i would go so far as to add the gameplay that if you get killed in-game, an agent from EA comes and kills you in your house.

But what if you hear the nefarious EA agent sneaking up on you, and get the drop on him?? Hmmm?? What then??

[neuromancer]

Should a sniper crouch behind the tree you've relieved yourself at his accuracy shall be reduced by 25% while he is there as the smell adversely affects his concentration.

A fecal cleanup kit can be equipped in place of a pistol to counter this.

[Spork!]

Should a sniper crouch behind the tree you've relieved yourself at his accuracy shall be reduced by 25% while he is there as the smell adversely affects his concentration.

A fecal cleanup kit can be equipped in place of a pistol to counter this.

You ever smelled a real ghille suit? Smelling "earthy" helps quite a bit. And covers the cordite smell quite well... Some go so far as to ferment theirs...

[Spork!]

LOL good one :)


PS. +rep for the house destruction. GJ with that one.

YAY! 21 months on the forum and I finally get rep! Thanks!

Edit: Vote up the thread if you found anything you learned even slightly useful... Seems some people think its funny to vote 1 because it's "OMG! TL;DR."

[hireath]

do whatever you like to hardcore, it's more about camp and less about skill therefore sucks.

[Ensiferum]

But what if you hear the nefarious EA agent sneaking up on you, and get the drop on him?? Hmmm?? What then??

I guess i created another gameplay then ;) Yay me !

[ITF Cho]

I guess i created another gameplay then ;) Yay me !

Now that is hardcore....

[Rhodsie]

I think one thing that should really be addressed is headshot damage. I think most people would agree that it should only take 1 hit from any gun, but at least from all rifle cartridges and larger.

[tseruzhy0]

On the charging handle note, I agree that it is always done wrong in games although you did leave out a part.

You only pull the charging handle when you first start firing as in the bolt is forward and the chamber is empty.

When you run dry from firing you bolt is locked back so when you put in a new mag all you press is the bolt release.

Then reloading when you still have a round in the chamber you do nothing which you got.

Anyway you missed the second one no biggie but my biggest gripe in these games is reload speed if you kids want hardcore than reload speed on assault rifles would be well under a second for any seasoned combat veteran. I know i can do it, numerous reload drills and lots of loading of magazines and a sore thumb :)

[Rhodsie]

Anyway you missed the second one no biggie but my biggest gripe in these games is reload speed if you kids want hardcore than reload speed on assault rifles would be well under a second for any seasoned combat veteran. I know i can do it, numerous reload drills and lots of loading of magazines and a sore thumb :)

You forgot to factor in something. The other 2-3 seconds of reloads they are taking the remaining rounds out of the mag you just changed and putting them into their pockets. :)

[Ensiferum]

Hey here's an idea to unbalance the whole game ! The more you are ranked, the faster you reload !

[Spork!]

You forgot to factor in something. The other 2-3 seconds of reloads they are taking the remaining rounds out of the mag you just changed and putting them into their pockets. :)

Also funny to think that an engineer with explosive trousers and the goose equipped is carrying in the neighborhood of 250lbs of tube and projectiles. :)

[neuromancer]

You ever smelled a real ghille suit? Smelling "earthy" helps quite a bit. And covers the cordite smell quite well... Some go so far as to ferment theirs...

Now that I didn't know :)

Makes an obvious kind of sense when you think about it.

[tseruzhy0]

You forgot to factor in something. The other 2-3 seconds of reloads they are taking the remaining rounds out of the mag you just changed and putting them into their pockets. :)

LOL yes because i would do that while under fire, realism should never come into games, i am still waiting for the m16 that has an ejection port cover that closes after every shot.

[Rhodsie]

LOL yes because i would do that while under fire, realism should never come into games, i am still waiting for the m16 that has an ejection port cover that closes after every shot.

Lol I know right. Sometimes I wonder if the devs even tested the weapons in real life before they portrayed them...

[tseruzhy0]

You ever smelled a real ghille suit? Smelling "earthy" helps quite a bit. And covers the cordite smell quite well... Some go so far as to ferment theirs...

I remember our snipers making their suits and breaking 3 drying machines in the process, I ended up pulling out a pound of dirt from the drying machine.

[Spork!]

LOL yes because i would do that while under fire, realism should never come into games, i am still waiting for the m16 that has an ejection port cover that closes after every shot.

occasionally dropping your gun and screaming/fleeing because a hot brass went down your neck would be funny too...

[ZanderArch]

It's a semi-tactical war shooter. It isn't realistic and it bothers me a bit, but it's too damn fun to get angry at the "CHANGING CLIP!" people usually yell when reloading any weapon or the fact the belt fed machine guns always have a full belt shown even if you only have one bullet left.
But it is a video game, and it didn't try to sell itself on realism other than the destruction and ballistics.

Same for the rest of your complaints.

But thanks for the C4 tip, I'll make sure to put it to good use.

And that was without Improved Explosions, right? No specific specializations?

[Spork!]

It's a semi-tactical war shooter. It isn't realistic and it bothers me a bit, but it's too damn fun to get angry at the "CHANGING CLIP!" people usually yell when reloading any weapon or the fact the belt fed machine guns always have a full belt shown even if you only have one bullet left.
But it is a video game, and it didn't try to sell itself on realism other than the destruction and ballistics.

Same for the rest of your complaints.

But thanks for the C4 tip, I'll make sure to put it to good use.

And that was without Improved Explosions, right? No specific specializations?



Improved explosives and explosive trousers so you carry 6.

[Spork!]

Courtesy bump for the late night crowd. Important info and all... :)