What's wrong with DRM?

[punkboy459]

I don't know why you guys are complaining about DRM? I never experienced one before however I do have some games are on DRM for 360 from Ubisoft. What is wrong with the DRM I would like to know, thanks.

[Retailnothx]

troll.

[Freyar]

A lot of people still don't like the notion of having to be online the entire time they play. After my experience with Assassin's Creed II though, it's not.. too bad. I'd much rather it not be there though.

[Retailnothx]

A lot of people still don't like the notion of having to be online the entire time they play. After my experience with Assassin's Creed II though, it's not.. too bad. I'd much rather it not be there though.

that's just a minor issue. Major issue is that if they shut down servers in a few years your game won't work anymore.
Check what EA does with their sport games every year, see what Microsoft is doing with the first X-Box (Halo 2 still has 20.000 players but they're shutting the servers down).
You're not buying a game, you're renting it full price.

[nubreed141]

Why would they shut down the servers though? If they want to continue using this DRM, they have to be maintained. Plus if the servers shut down, they would most likely release a patch so that the games are still playable.

[antiver]

Plus if the servers shut down, they would most likely release a patch so that the games are still playable.

What makes you think they would rather continue to pay for your legacy game servers, than to push you to buy their latest game instead? DRM is partially designed/implemented to control the market.

I'll buy Conviction when it's DRM-free. Until then, it hasn't been "released."

[RTD-Spector]

You guys get so worked up over something that really is absolutely meaningless. Keep on hypothesizing with your what if's. I pre-ordered the DELUXE EDITION!!! DUHN DUHN DUHN!!!!!!!

[nubreed141]

What makes you think they would rather continue to pay for your legacy game servers, than to push you to buy their latest game instead? DRM is partially designed/implemented to control the market.

I'll buy Conviction when it's DRM-free. Until then, it hasn't been "released."


What you just said contradicts itself. DRM will probably be used in all their future products. In order for them to continue using DRM, they have to maintain "my legacy game servers"...

[gft]

What you just said contradicts itself. DRM will probably be used in all their future products. In order for them to continue using DRM, they have to maintain "my legacy game servers"...

They can patch previously released games to no longer require the constant internet connection. Ubisoft can turn off their DRM whenever they want. Or they can turn off their DRM servers and not patch their game. Even if you think they'd never intentionally do that, they will go out of business someday and your game will become useless.

[brent3000]

With my personal stance on DRM i added the pack (all the spintercells) to my cart but after checking the DRM listings on the store page quickly removed it.

Again a console game i will buy simply to remove the PC DRM forced onto it.

Shame on you Ubisoft... Lets see if the servers get another DOS attack forcing no one to play for a few hours again. When will they learn this DRM hurts PC users :( Steams DRM should be the only one implemented on Steam games.

Personally i would love to see sales charts of AC and AC II from steam. Just to compare if it actually hurts the sales of the game.
they will go out of business someday and your game will become useless.

Good luck with that...

EA or MS will buy them out before that.


Check what EA does with their sport games every year, see what Microsoft is doing with the first X-Box (Halo 2 still has 20.000 players but they're shutting the servers down).
If u actually read whats happend with the whole MS and xbox live system you would understand their reasons behind it. Yes its a kick in the afce but due to the intergration behind it all it was a must do else they would need to split the XBL sections up.

vertually all of the players with H2 are playing it on their 360 anyway and with Reach coming out that number would have gone right down.

EA are just bad and everyone knows it. Since they started hosting their own servers (xbox live and PC etc) they have been doing this and it was an early form of DRM. Bad EA. To their defence though before some games got the axe they did hand the servers off to Game Spy which to this day keep them alive where EA would have killed it off.

You're not buying a game, you're renting it full price.
I like that motto :)

[wokelly]

You guys get so worked up over something that really is absolutely meaningless. Keep on hypothesizing with your what if's. I pre-ordered the DELUXE EDITION!!! DUHN DUHN DUHN!!!!!!!

Joke is on you than, ubisoft games are notorious for being horribly buggy upon release and need several patches to usually be brought up to the level you would expect a game to be at release. In all likelihood by the time the game is properly patched (thats questionable on its own, ubisoft have shown with SC: DA and SH4 they are willing to abandon a game before its fixed) the price will be down.

Frankly I no longer care if I have a new game immediately upon release, I am more than happy to wait a year after release to play a game, when its cost is down 50%, when its patched, and most importantly after reviews are out to tell me if the game is worth it.

In Ubisoft's case I am more than willing to outwait their ridiculous DRM. Eventually they will send out a patch to allow for non-internet connection playing, or they wont and will just shut down the server, in which case I would not want to buy the game if its just a full price rental.

[7aji88]

You guys get so worked up over something that really is absolutely meaningless. Keep on hypothesizing with your what if's. I pre-ordered the DELUXE EDITION!!! DUHN DUHN DUHN!!!!!!!

Well, beside this being such a ♥♥♥♥ty business practice, some of us don't have much money to spare on video games that we may not be able to play in the future even though we paid for them.

[RTD-Spector]

Well, beside this being such a ♥♥♥♥ty business practice, some of us don't have much money to spare on video games that we may not be able to play in the future even though we paid for them.

All the more reason to get a good education and become rich.

[nubreed141]

Well, beside this being such a ♥♥♥♥ty business practice, some of us don't have much money to spare on video games that we may not be able to play in the future even though we paid for them.

Then don't buy them and stop complaining. Plain and simple. I know that sounds mean but there's really no point of ranting online. People will continue to buy the game simply because they don't care about what Ubisoft does. I'm one of those people.

[djuara]

The point of ranting on internet is to inform those that don't know or notice the DRM about it. If you know about the DRM and it is okay for you then feel free to buy it.

BTW, the gameplay for single player is only about 5 hours long. So $60 for 5 hours of gaming with a bonus of a DRM that can stop you from playing the game.

[nubreed141]

well you have to remember that there's another 5 hours of gameplay in coop with different levels. Along with that there's multiplayer.

[DJ_Professor_K]

A lot of people still don't like the notion of having to be online the entire time they play. After my experience with Assassin's Creed II though, it's not.. too bad. I'd much rather it not be there though.

Setlers 7 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6061083365/m/9121044648/p/1) -> 68 pages (2nd topic, the other one had +70 pages too) of people unable to play just about every time.

While AC2 worked "fine", S7 isn't working at all until now (and how long was it released?), and there is no way to know how any upcomming games will be like AC2 or S7.

I do hope to never see the same problems as S7 again tough, no legit player should pass by that EVER.

The problems aren't about ubi shuting down their servers, it's mostly becouse their servers fail in just about every way, we always had issues connecting to their master servers from the previous games, their MS were down for hours to end in several random times, etc. It doesn't matter our connection, but it does matter if their servers work and if we wish to play the game where ever we want (vacations house with no internet for example).

With this i think the OP got his answer ;)

[hurleyboy]

What you just said contradicts itself. DRM will probably be used in all their future products. In order for them to continue using DRM, they have to maintain "my legacy game servers"...



No they dont they maintain the DRM severs but it in no way signifys keeping the ACII servers online

When we get to ACIV theyll go well its using up our bandwidth and resources to support a 6 yr old game or we can cut it off

[velvetmeds]

All the more reason to get a good education and become rich.

considering your decision to buy this POS i doubt you have any education at all.

[Jagged Tooth]

He's a little intro to why DRM is a problem.

Ubisoft's DRM Kicks Australia While It's Down (http://kotaku.com/5506062/ubisofts-drm-kicks-australia-while-its-down)
Denial Of Service Attack Kills Ubisoft DRM (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/03/denial-of-service-attack-kills-ubisoft-drm/)
Ubisoft's New DRM System Falls Down, Locks Out Paying Customers (http://kotaku.com/5487918/ubisofts-new-drm-system-falls-down-locks-out-paying-customers)

[Roost3rCANNON]

DLC is on it's way maybe for a price? I hope it's coming ! LOL

[RTD-Spector]

In the famous words of South Park ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE PEAS AND CARROTS

ps: If using ubsisofts servers are such a problem there is a way around it in the form of a server emulator. I'm not condoning such things just simply acknowledging its existence.

considering your decision to buy this POS i doubt you have any education at all.

Tsk tsk personally attacking someone for choosing to purchase a video game. You my friend are the scum of the internet goodbye!

[unfakingb]

I don't know why you guys are complaining about DRM? I never experienced one before however I do have some games are on DRM for 360 from Ubisoft. What is wrong with the DRM I would like to know, thanks.

Tell me, how is the DRM in this game good for you? If you intend to say stop pirates from acquiring/playing the game for free, how does that benefit you? What extra value do you get from draconian DRM protected games you do not from games with less intrusive or no DRM? How does Ubisoft 'reward' you for you allowing them to hold you on a leash and dictate when you can or cannot play?

You see, this is about exercising your freedom and demanding your rights as a paying customer.

You are expending resources on entertainment, which means you should be entertained, if you're hindered or completely shut out from the service, then you're basically getting scammed.

What baffles me is that you need to ask what is wrong with a feature that does not provide you with ANY added value whatsoever, moreover, is prone to shut you from your purchase completely.

If you're fine with that risk, which I assume you are, then go ahead and feed Ubisoft with money and hope your user experience will be a smooth one.

[PimpMyCat]

Considering the single player is only around 5 hours of gameplay (and I'm hoping there's more replay value from co-op and multiplayer), I'm honestly not too concerned about DRM on a game like this. I do understand there's no justification for it on a game like AC2, which is exclusively single player, though.

[Ytsejam]

well you have to remember that there's another 5 hours of gameplay in coop with different levels. Along with that there's multiplayer.

10 hours worths 60 bucks? You gotta be kidding me.

Personally, I couldn't care less mor multiplayer and coop when it comes to SC (to me there are far superior games for multi and coop like Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, the Battlefield series...).

I'm huge fan of the series, and the single player aways was the best thing on those games. Even if I care for coop, 10 hours is way too short for that kind of money. Furthermore, is a digital copy. I thought lower prices were one of the advantages over retail since there's no additional costs with paper, plastic and so on.

I wouldn't buy it anyway because of the stupid "always online" DRM, but the fact is no game in the world worths 60 bucks.

[GrimCW]

10 hours worths 60 bucks? You gotta be kidding me.


how bout the 20+ hour or so tutorial in FFXIII? is that worth it?
heh... had to ask..

[QuickCam7]

My problem? Basically If your game F*cks up once or twice (requireing you to install and use one of your "install permissions") and/or someone pirates the CD Key then your game just became a worthless piece of security-locked hardware which you paid full-price for. (and yes this has happened to me, ♥♥♥♥ you very much EA.

[VooDooAddict]

The point of ranting on internet is to inform those that don't know or notice the DRM about it. If you know about the DRM and it is okay for you then feel free to buy it.



.....

[Ytsejam]

how bout the 20+ hour or so tutorial in FFXIII? is that worth it?
heh... had to ask..

I don't know the game you're talking about, but no game worth that kind of money.

[GrimCW]

I don't know the game you're talking about, but no game worth that kind of money.

Finaly Fantasy 13
its tutorials can last literally some 20+ hours before it finally just unleashes you onto the game.
its got jokes to said degree all over the net.

[velvetmeds]

Tsk tsk personally attacking someone for choosing to purchase a video game. You my friend are the scum of the internet goodbye!

you personally attacked people for choosing to NOT purchase a video game. what does that make you?

[Zefar]

that's just a minor issue. Major issue is that if they shut down servers in a few years your game won't work anymore.
Check what EA does with their sport games every year, see what Microsoft is doing with the first X-Box (Halo 2 still has 20.000 players but they're shutting the servers down).
You're not buying a game, you're renting it full price.

Did you know that when Steam servers went down, people couldn't access their games at all?

Most likely not but there where two times when this happened. A lot of people where mad as hell too.

So if Valve goes out of business you wouldn't have access to your games either. As I think it would be rather hard to keep offline mode working.

But you know what? Companies have a PLAN for this. Yes, it's true, Valve, Ubisoft and any other company that has a DRM that rely on you getting information from a certain server. Will be patched out before they go out of business. They probably have the code ready just in case if it happens too quick.

So you'll be able to play Assassin Creed 2 10 years from now if the OS actually supports it. The DRM will most likely go away after a year or two.

So all you're doing now is spreading somewhat lies about the DRM that if the company goes down they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s about it and never patch the game.


PimpMyCat: My brother got well over 10 hours out of this game. So if you rush through the story you might end up with a short time.

[djuara]

Maybe Valve will patched out their DRM, but I'm not so sure about Ubisoft. Eventually if Ubisoft is around, they'll likely to patch out the DRM when it is too costly to maintain the servers, but there is no guarantee of that. When pushed, Ubisoft's PR staff avoid to answer questions about that.

Same with Valve, they promised but there is no guarantee if they go down there are still anyone around that is nice enough to patch out the DRM. Ubisoft is worse, they didn't even have the patch to remove the DRM from Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 that they had to use pirate's crack to do it. They almost never release a patch to fix their buggy PC release. They haven't released any patch to fix the problem with wireless XBOX 360 gamepad and their games. Something that can be easily fix by them if they want to.

[Jito463]

But you know what? Companies have a PLAN for this. Yes, it's true, Valve, Ubisoft and any other company that has a DRM that rely on you getting information from a certain server. Will be patched out before they go out of business. They probably have the code ready just in case if it happens too quick.

Zefar, you're making the mistake of *assuming* that Ubisoft actually cares enough to make or release this patch. From past experience, I don't trust them to do either. Unless you're saying you have definitive knowledge/evidence of this.

So you'll be able to play Assassin Creed 2 10 years from now if the OS actually supports it. The DRM will most likely go away after a year or two.

Again, you're assuming. There is no evidence - especially based on past behavior - to indicate this will happen.

Yes, I admit that I'm assuming, too. But I'm basing my assumptions on their past actions. I'd like to know what you're basing your assumptions on.

[mikes100]

So all you're doing now is spreading somewhat lies about the DRM that if the company goes down they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s about it and never patch the game.


What lies are these then?:confused: Please inform us if you no more about DRM?

[Quint]

I think its in the best interest of everyone that the pessimistic lads here do not purchase any games from steam or from Ubi.Also their fear of servers getting shut down and losing their games after 5 years is just too much.

Constantly ranting and making stupid threads on the same issue wont get you anything..your better of wasting that time on other things(if you have any).

[GrimCW]

Maybe Valve will patched out their DRM, but I'm not so sure about Ubisoft.

valve has already actually stated they'd release a steam "release" patch like a no cd crack sorta thing for their games.
i'd trust Valve to do it, but Ubi... Ubi's stated something of the sort IIRC, but by the time they go down, or anything else, it'll be long dead and they'll ignore the few still playing their games.
my bet is they will drop support after a few months (as is the par for Ubi) and in doing so refuse any DRM removal, along with the death of actual software support.
Valve won't just up and quit on their games, HL1 is still supported and sold, vs say, Ghost Recon. Sold, but not supported any longer.
he** they don't even support GRAW or R6V 1 or 2 of either.

as for the steam being down thing, i don't recall that one, when did that happen, and did anyone (dur!) try the offline mode?

i've only had steam since HL2, and can't say i've EVER been locked out of my games except the initial connection req cause i was in Iraq when i got HL2.

[flipmode009]

I don't know why you guys are complaining about DRM? I never experienced one before however I do have some games are on DRM for 360 from Ubisoft. What is wrong with the DRM I would like to know, thanks.

Good lord, 60% of the world does not have good enough internet to run this DRM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with you, you support a company that is trying to void the privacy act, along with blatantly being ignorent to cutomers to the point where customers need to conform to their privacy rules? The government made those laws, only for you guys to ingore what protects us from dictatorship so you can have a game addiction fix? Digital Dictatorship!

How can UBI think everyone has fiber/adsl? Their ignorance is so horrible they should be banned from valve. Valve likes costomers...so stop supporting anti-customer companies!

[Kral]

Why would they shut down the servers though? If they want to continue using this DRM, they have to be maintained. Plus if the servers shut down, they would most likely release a patch so that the games are still playable.

It's happened before. Most recent one I can think of was when Wal-Mart shut down their music DRM server for WMA protected files when they switched to a different way of selling music so all the tracks purchased using that DRM became useless. People who bought a bunch of music from them had to burn them all to CD-Rs and rip them before the shutdown, which was unworkable for people that bought a lot of music.

If you're trusting a company to provide a patch when shutting down a DRM server, realize that it has rarely happened that way in the past.

[GrimCW]

If you're trusting a company to provide a patch when shutting down a DRM server, realize that it has rarely happened that way in the past.

one exception would be ID, and its why i love'em despite some mediocre titles lately.
they ALWAYS release a final patch to remove the DRM used (cd-keys aside)
normally its just a no disc patch, but seeing as thats all they really had in the past its enough.

i trust them to do it should they ever stoop this low.

otherwise you end up with things like Sierra and Vivendi.
when Vivendi got shut down anyone who wanted to play Tribes 2 still was shi* outta luck till some hackers came along and booted some fake servers.

[thermalburn]

I think DRM's just serve to instigate more piracy. My "argumentative" attitude usually implies that i'll pirate a game for no reason other than to say; "See, that anti-piracy measure didnt work."

[GrimCW]

I think DRM's just serve to instigate more piracy. My "argumentative" attitude usually implies that i'll pirate a game for no reason other than to say; "See, that anti-piracy measure didnt work."

thats the excuse they throw at anyone who disagrees with DRM.

" oh no! they don't like DRM they must be a pirate!"

lets look to the 258 PURCHASED games in my steam list and say that again... now lets take a look at the 300+ hard copies i have in boxes and the multitude of other digital formats (D2D, G2G etc..)

yup, must've pirated all of'em right?... i mean, steam must be a major piracy tool then on its own if thats the case.

i don't like this kind of DRM cause its a severe inconvenience and can ruin the game.
in the case of activations i hate it cause a simple screw up on the activation server can lose me my game (as has happened with my EA Downloader copy of crysis, prompting 2 months fighting with EA and the eventual crediting of 1 free new copy. the catch? i needed to make a SECOND ea downloader account for ONE game, the rest of my games remained on the old account with the dud Crysis. Also mistyped my key for Chronicles of Riddick and had to spend 2 weeks arguing with TAGES support that i wasn't a pirate. they literally insult you and call you such BTW.)
i don't mind the one time activation anymore, despite it locked me and many others from playing HL2 when it was released (I, like many, was in Iraq at the time, and finding an internet connection during a com blackout for anyone under the rank of LT or better isn't likely)

so i'm not completely anti DRM, but i am against this "leasing the software" bullsh** completely.
down the road they'll drop support, never release the DRM, and screw anyone from continuing to play the title in an attempt to sell the new one at that time.
its how consoles easily work, and they're trying to push PC gamers away from our originals to make us play the new game that was "similar" to the original.
imagine if the original Ghost recon had this lockout, and got dropped.
we'd have been left with nothing but "alternatives" making us buy new games to play the similar style when we feel nostalgic and want some GR goodness.

on consoles its easy enough because the player base usually sinks pretty fast with the kids moving onto the next new title, but on PC's we can hold onto a game for YEARS to come.
nearly 15 or so years now and Quakeworld still has servers. can we say the same for even something such as gatherings to play 007 on the N64 much anymore? the only real early online console just got its cord cut, blacking out still popular runs in Halo 2 for crying out loud.
think M$ cares? nope, reach is coming out soon, and people will buy new copies of Halo 3, or Reach to continue playing.

now if Ubi has truly changed face, maybe they'll release a DRM offing patch... but i doubt it.
they're notorious for releasing unfinished games to the PC market of late, having only given a few months time to even make the game the developers can't even be totally blamed.
and then dropping support some 6 months post release, despite any remaining problems while they prep for their next short term release, leaving games unplayable and in a total state of shat.

remember folks they (Ubi) and EA want 12 month release schedules so they can flood the market with "new titles"
problem is, these 12 month games are going to be shorter, and at full price.

i'll hand it to EA though on one account, they still have released patched well beyond the support cutoff. BF2's a fine example of that.
now to see if they'll fix 2142, 1942, and nam :p

[mezoforte1509]

see what Microsoft is doing with the first X-Box (Halo 2 still has 20.000 players but they're shutting the servers down).
My god call the baww bunny. You expect them to sponsor servers for multiplayer 10 years after xbox live launched? You paid 50 dollars for 6 years of servers and you can still play it offline.

[Viiru]

that's just a minor issue. Major issue is that if they shut down servers in a few years your game won't work anymore.
Check what EA does with their sport games every year, see what Microsoft is doing with the first X-Box (Halo 2 still has 20.000 players but they're shutting the servers down).
You're not buying a game, you're renting it full price.

this is the only post that made perfect sense, gj dude.

[piman]

Why would they shut down the servers though? If they want to continue using this DRM, they have to be maintained. Plus if the servers shut down, they would most likely release a patch so that the games are still playable.

And Bankers will self regulate themselves also.....
Hey it's always good to have a dream!

[Jito463]

And Bankers will self regulate themselves also.....
Hey it's always good to have a dream!

Off topic, but bankers don't have an opportunity to self-regulate, because they're already among the most heavily regulated industry. And yet, the government blames them when something goes wrong, in spite of the fact that it's usually due to the government's own regulation.

In other words, it's a bad example.

[Frankdux]

In the famous words of South Park ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE PEAS AND CARROTS


I would just like to point out that the correct word is 'rabble', as in a mob or unruly crowd.

As for DRM, eh, whatever. If the servers go down you don't get to play for a couple hours? That's not something you should be all that upset about. A new product crapped out and needed maintenance on the first weekend of it getting released!? oh noes!

[Jito463]

Don't get to play for a couple of hours? Tell that to Australia.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6061083365/m/4651055548/p/1

[bodybag2224]

Personally a DRM like this I don't have any real qualms with. But I also have a stable internet connection and don't have a limit. So for people outside of that situation this would be a pain and is a valid reason to complain. The only DRM that I hate are ones that limit number of installs.