Instead of Main Classes - 2 Sub Classes

[Poisonous Fox]

Okay, before I make this, I will assume that if this was added, they would also implement a Gunslinger (Pistol) Class.

How would you like the option to either get a single class, or get 2 classes, that are about half as useful as the others? But some things wouldn't stack (speed [medic] and speed [berserker]).

Combining Medic and Bersker. Level 5 with both.

Spawn with Machete and Kevlar. (Maybe a unique melee Syringe that can inject heals on allies or poison on ZEDs [anti scrake/FP])

Combining Gunslinger and Demoman.

Stuck in an enclosed area, Use Hand Cannons, stuck in the open? Use explosives! Not master of either, but a well rounded class.

Combining Firebug and Melee.
Level 5 with both (or 6)

Uses flaming oil to cover a weapon, the weapon would stay on fire for a while (other pay for a full round from the trader, or be very powerful, but uses up all the ammo of your flamethrower. Fire would spread among ZEDs but also maybe damage himself.

Ect...

Post some suggestions, tell me NO, tell me I am scrubtarded, w/e you want.

[Zaqq]

Gunslinger is crap

[Saijin_Naib]

Honestly I'd like to see a class where you can pick N(N= level of Custom Perk) bonuses from your other perks of Level N.

So for instance, at level 0 of this perk you've got NO bonuses. At level 1, you can pick one perk bonus from one of your perks. First thing I would do is take Can't be Grabbed by clots from my berserker. At level 2, I'd add Level 5 Medic Armor boost. Etc etc.

Due to the nature of this perk, it would be nigh on impossible for it to become OP or unbalanced because you can only choose one attribute from each one of your perks, and it would only be at the level of the perk you are taking it from. You can take multiple attributes from each perk, but then you run the risk of eating up your limited custom perk slots & too closely duplicating one of the already existing perks which would end up being better (due to having more perk bonuses).

If you level that perk (for this example, Medic 5->6) then your perk bonus would rise with it as if it were that perk.

[trilance]

That's exactly the class I've been looking for: to be able to choose perks at will and select the best ones that would function most effectively in a given situation. You will then be able to choose an overall on whether you're trying to maximize your combat ability or focus primarily on defensive capabilities.

[Saijin_Naib]

Glad you get what I was trying to describe. I think it'd be very useful and fun.

[RalphMalph]

So are you really saying that you couldnt make an OP perk this way?

Youre already well on the way with berserker "cant be grabbed" and medic armor. SS headshot bonus and BAM, OP. Commando with a scar, low recoil, fast reload, medic armor and cant be grabbed? OP

C'mon guys. Im not trying to be a ♥♥♥♥ but this seems kind of obvious to me.

Lets flesh it out more before calling it a balanced idea?

Perhaps a mix and match system where your TOTAL perk level cant exceed six, but you can mix and match level up to that. Berserker 2, medic 2, ss 2 as an example...

[Saijin_Naib]

So are you really saying that you couldnt make an OP perk this way?

Youre already well on the way with berserker "cant be grabbed" and medic armor. SS headshot bonus and BAM, OP. Commando with a scar, low recoil, fast reload, medic armor and cant be grabbed? OP

C'mon guys. Im not trying to be a ♥♥♥♥ but this seems kind of obvious to me.

Lets flesh it out more before calling it a balanced idea?

Perhaps a mix and match system where your TOTAL perk level cant exceed six, but you can mix and match level up to that. Berserker 2, medic 2, ss 2 as an example...

You wouldnt have the damage bonus, nor the stalker sight, nor the health bars, nor the purchase price reduction, nor the ammo boost. You also wouldn't have any of the other medic's abilties nor the rest of the berserker abilities. Also, the SS headshot bonus will still ONLY apply to the SS weapons, so in your example, it'd be useless for the SCAR. See? It works fine.
Also, the berserker can't be grabbed by CLOTS only. Really hard to make that an OP ability. I feel like you either didn't read what I posted or you posted a knee-jerk reaction before thinking it out.
It'd be balanced out quite well I believe.

[RalphMalph]

Ok, so how many attributes do you get to select then?

[Saijin_Naib]

I'm thinking this for the Hybrid Perk, that it will be Hybrid Perk Level + 1 for the number of perk attributes it will have.

So,
Level 0 -> 1 attribute
Level 1 -> 2 attributes
etc etc

You can choose as many attributes from each of your other perks as you wish, but as I stated before, if you take multiple attributes from a single Perk you run the risk of too closely duplicating an already existing perk which would likely end up being better than your Hybrid perk because it will have more bonuses than you can.

Also, when you select a perk say, from Support such as Extra Shotgun Damage, it functions EXACTLY as it did for support. The extra damage only works for the shotguns. Then, lets say you want the extra Headshot damage from the Sharpshooter, right? It will still ONLY be extra headshot damage with the Sharpshooter weapons exactly as it is now.

So, you can take every offensive damage boost from each class but you will only have that boost for the weapons from that class. It could potentially work out well if you took the Berserker Melee Boost (your starting Knife), Sharphsooter Damage boost (your starting 9mm), Demolitions Damage Boost (your included Nades), etc. However, you will not have the purchase price reduction, extra ammo, larger clips, decreased recoil, increase attack rate, and other advantages of the other full perks because you've already burned through 3 out of the 7 max possible perk attributes you can have.

You'd really need to think about what perk attributes are most important to your playstyle and what will not closely duplicate an already existing and more powerful perk.

I think it really could work and balances itself out because you are so limited in regards to max perk bonuses you can have. For instance, if you look at the KF-wiki, Medic, Support, and Commando all have 8 perk bonus attributes. The rest have 7 or below, so at its best, the Hybrid perk would have a purely average number of perk bonuses.

[Sweet Blasphemy]

Actually, the sharpshooter headshot bonus is for any weapon. That's how my friend leveled up his commando at first. I'd buy him a Scar and he'd take advantage of the level 6 sharpshooter headshot bonuses.

Interesting idea on the skill class, though as Ralph said, I could see it becoming over powered very quickly. Take level 6 medic armor, berserker damage reduction, commando reloads, sharpshooter headshot bonuses, and supports shotgun damage bonus. You'd have a class with ridiculous amounts of armor, and shotgun damage that would make stack with the headshots and faster reloads. And that's only 5 skills. I think that's a bit over powered personally. Or hell, it can use about any weapon with the headshot bonuses. It's already quite overpowered. Plus it seems kind of complicated to pick out your perk bonuses. Especially if you want to change them between waves.

[Mister.D]

Want to balance the game?

Remove all difficulty modes except for one, then work from there.

Biggest problem with balance in this game, is the difficulty+perk stepping.

Such as, players too low level playing Hard or Suicidal and dying leaving fewer players to deal with the extra zeds, or high level players hijacking the normal or hard games.

If there was only 1 difficulty setting, weapons and player perks could be much easier to balance for TWI, and just maybe people would have to work together more.

[Saijin_Naib]

Fair enough blasphemy, but how will you afford the amour repair, the shotguns, and the other weapons and ammo? You wont have any of the price reductions, recoil improvements, penetration, and improved clip size.

Also, in order to use the perk attribute bonus, you have to have already EARNED it with the real Main classes. I'm pretty damned sure not everyone has all level 6 perks looking at the Steam Achievement statuses. I sure as hell don't, I've only got two (Support/Sharp). Everything else is 5 and 4.

All I'm saying is that I believe it would work out to not be any more powerful than any of the other Level 6 perks. I can't verify this without playtesting however :\

Oh, also, any perk attributes that would "stack" are averaged together. So if you try and take both Medic & berserker Speed boost or Bloat Resistance you just get the average of the summed values.

[Alex Immortal]

I really like Saijin's idea.

I just can't figure how you'd level it.

[Saijin_Naib]

Good point Alex. I'm not certain myself either. I'm thinking you'd level it by either number of kills (total while using Hybrid Perk) or some other metric. I really have no idea what would be fair and appropriate. Suggestions are very welcome.

[Miidgi]

Good point Alex. I'm not certain myself either. I'm thinking you'd level it by either number of kills (total while using Hybrid Perk) or some other metric. I really have no idea what would be fair and appropriate. Suggestions are very welcome.

Perhaps base it on the other perks? Since it has so much to do with them already, this would make sense. Maybe take the average of all of the other perk levels (rounded down), or just take the lowest. I'm in favor of the latter.

[turtlesoup]

hey here's a novel idea, what if we could save a bunch of presets with these abilities, that would be chosen at various points in the game, depending on the situation. these combinations could get more and more effective the higher your level, we could keep track of things like number of kills with certain weapons and abilities to advance them, but then we would also need some type of indicator to show how effective they might be on different server settings. I like this idea, sounds like it would be fun if players were somehow able to join games that match their level of experience.

[Sweet Blasphemy]

Well, if you aren't allowed to change classes while using this class, it may be more balanced. But being able to start as a class and get the discount, then switch over to the class and getting tons of power from it.

As far as the people not being level 6, that may well be true. I've kinda become jaded about levels from playing on suicidal. Most people hit up a level 5 or 6 class (except for the occasional idiot on a level 2). It would most definitely be an interesting class though. I'm level 6 in everything but firebug and I can just imagine the bonuses I would pick. There are quite a few.

[Saijin_Naib]

Well, if you aren't allowed to change classes while using this class, it may be more balanced. But being able to start as a class and get the discount, then switch over to the class and getting tons of power from it.

As far as the people not being level 6, that may well be true. I've kinda become jaded about levels from playing on suicidal. Most people hit up a level 5 or 6 class (except for the occasional idiot on a level 2). It would most definitely be an interesting class though. I'm level 6 in everything but firebug and I can just imagine the bonuses I would pick. There are quite a few.
The whole idea is to have it function pretty much 1:1 to how the current classes work. Can you change classes multiple times per wave currently? No. Exactly the same as this. You would have to change at the trader or before you joined.

[18672]

I can see how this has potential as long as Trip Wire spend time and come up with a algorithm to prevent a over powered combination. What I picture happening is this; someone comes up with a versatile and effective combo and in the long run EVERYONE will have the same combo.

[Saijin_Naib]

I can see how this has potential as long as Trip Wire spend time and come up with a algorithm to prevent a over powered combination. What I picture happening is this; someone comes up with a versatile and effective combo and in the long run EVERYONE will have the same combo.
I believe this combo has proven itself to be SharpShooter Level 6 or Support Level 6 has it not?