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View Full Version : Decent Bots = Purchase


EnsignBlue
05-01-2010, 11:45 PM
Beyond the extra two degrees of movement bit, bots for SH should be pretty easy to make provided you have someone fairly decent at artificial intelligence programming. It shouldn't be that huge of an addition.

Anyway, the ability to play on a local server with bots is absolutely necessary for me for most games like this. For example, in CSS for the first few weeks all I did was play with bots, because:

1) no ping concerns
2) let me slowly learn the game without getting totally destroyed by experienced players
3) let me play on some lesser played maps without worrying about player counts
4) let me play with my friends without anyone else interrupting

This is doubly so for SH, which is a bit more of a complicated game to learn and is only populated by hardcore dedicated players. I would love this game but I don't want to have to worry about the fact that there are two and a half players at any given time and that those two and a half players are all more than qualified to be capable of absolutely murdering me. I also don't want to have to worry about the longevity of the community, and bots would more or less give me a permanent guarantee for the game.

So FutureMark, I will purchase your game if you release the ability to play with bots on local servers (they do not have to be present on public servers), and I suspect a good number of other people will do so as well. Whether these purchases are numerous enough to make you seriously consider adding bots is not what I'm trying to convince you of, I'm just saying that we are here, and if you want to cater to us, I will throw money at your foreheads.

Isodus
05-02-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm really not trying to sound mean when I say this but, so what if you die by experienced players?

My first online game that I got really hardcore into was CS:S and let me tell you bots teach you almost nothing other than practicing aiming (and poorly at that). I have yet to see a game have bots that can use grenades as well which is a huge part of this game, and then I can also expect that coding a bot to know that if it thrusts in one direction, it will continue in that direction for ever until it hits an object or thrusts in another direction.

Population is also quite a bit more than what you've described. Yes this game has a small following, yes most of the players that do play regularly are fairly good. However, due to more people purchasing the game after Moonrise and in anticipation for Firepower, there are quite a few new people playing. So now more than ever is probably the best time for you to pick up the game, the population of the hardcore veterans is a much smaller percentage to the newer/less experienced players.

Bots are kind of like a double edged sword as well. I don't know about you, but any time I play CS:S and I pop in a server with bots on it, I immediately leave. The bots are very bad players and to make up for that they have some "psychic" abilities (they can more or less pinpoint your location because they "heard" your footsteps sometimes). It's like playing a toddler who barely understands the concept of video games and occasionally hands the controller off to his father who is a pro, it's much too frustrating. Yes they can help server populations, but they can scare them away just as easily.

-PS if we do get a single player campaign that a lot of people have been asking for, we will more than likely get bots (they go hand in hand).

-PPS Most devs really don't take note of a single person asking for a change to their game in order for them to buy it, it would be like you going up to the President of the United States and telling him to put in a stop sign at the end of your street because it's difficult to cross that street during rush hour. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, but the way you are going about it kinda seems a little childish and selfish. Suggestion that FM add bots because it would make it easier for new players to get into the game and thus more sales is a much better tactic (or something along those lines).

EnsignBlue
05-02-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm really not trying to sound mean when I say this but, so what if you die by experienced players?

No offense taken, mate. Don't know why everyone always gets so up in arms when you disagree with them.

My first online game that I got really hardcore into was CS:S and let me tell you bots teach you almost nothing other than practicing aiming (and poorly at that).

It taught me general strategy as well, as well as let me get a feel for the game, the maps, the weapons, etc., in a low-stress environment. Whereas in actual servers there's a constant impetus to either jump up or die trying, in local servers it's just me and a few bots, I can take my time doing so.

I have yet to see a game have bots that can use grenades as well which is a huge part of this game, and then I can also expect that coding a bot to know that if it thrusts in one direction, it will continue in that direction for ever until it hits an object or thrusts in another direction.

These are very easy to program. The former is only slightly more complicated than getting a bot to fire its weapon tactically, and the latter is just a matter of letting the bot know that every movement is a continual progression and that it needs to constantly be moving. Any sufficient AI programmer should be capable of tackling these issues.

Population is also quite a bit more than what you've described. Yes this game has a small following, yes most of the players that do play regularly are fairly good. However, due to more people purchasing the game after Moonrise and in anticipation for Firepower, there are quite a few new people playing. So now more than ever is probably the best time for you to pick up the game, the population of the hardcore veterans is a much smaller percentage to the newer/less experienced players.

Firstly, the DLC packs are most certainly temporary population boosts; DLC content usually results in a population boost for a few weeks followed by a pretty rapid descent back into normal ratios. DLC's population impact is more long-term; it gives people a reason to keep coming back. Before long these new players will either dissipate or become hardcore players themselves. The issue will return back to normal.

Further, on the long-term spectrum, even with these DLC packs, SH has a very constant low population. I don't want to spend twenty dollars on a game that may die out at any given moment and then just spend its days rusting on my Steam Library shelf. I would much rather buy a game I can know that I can download in not just three months from now but in three years from now will be able to be playable, thanks to bots. Local bot servers would make it so that SH would be a game I can always play. That sounds like a universal positive to me.

Bots are kind of like a double edged sword as well. I don't know about you, but any time I play CS:S and I pop in a server with bots on it, I immediately leave. The bots are very bad players and to make up for that they have some "psychic" abilities (they can more or less pinpoint your location because they "heard" your footsteps sometimes). It's like playing a toddler who barely understands the concept of video games and occasionally hands the controller off to his father who is a pro, it's much too frustrating. Yes they can help server populations, but they can scare them away just as easily.

Firstly, bots on public servers is entirely SH's perogative, I'm merely arguing for local applications of them. Or if they go public, FM can add server tags and have an option to auto-filter bot servers (perhaps even by default) so as to negate your concerns.

-PS if we do get a single player campaign that a lot of people have been asking for, we will more than likely get bots (they go hand in hand).

Sounds good to me.

-PPS Most devs really don't take note of a single person asking for a change to their game in order for them to buy it, it would be like you going up to the President of the United States and telling him to put in a stop sign at the end of your street because it's difficult to cross that street during rush hour. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, but the way you are going about it kinda seems a little childish and selfish. Suggestion that FM add bots because it would make it easier for new players to get into the game and thus more sales is a much better tactic (or something along those lines).

Some times all it takes is a small reverberation to start an avalanche. Even if that reverberation is unnoticeable by itself, in the grand scheme of things it, while perhaps not pivotal, is worth the effort it took. The President may not take notice of a single letter, but perhaps a 100,000 letters, and each one of those letters is, at its core, a single letter. And we operate at a much, much smaller scale here.

B3RS3RK
05-02-2010, 02:50 AM
Are the "No Damage Learning Servers" Gone?I remember they set ups some servers without Damage to learn the movement in the start.


And: There are so few Games, even Multiplayer Games, that support Bots.Thatīs just the Way of life.I donīt think SH needs bots, there are way more important things to work on.Bots are always a nice addition, but they arenīt necessary.

I also believe someone fro mthe Dev Team said that Bots in SH would be incredibly hard to make, because of the 360 Degrees warfare(Bots in CSS just move forward, backwards, left or right.Imaging what a SH bot would have to do).

vijil
05-02-2010, 03:38 AM
"Bots are always a nice addition, but they arenīt necessary."

Not for me. Either they add bots or I can't play at all because of my timezone and the massive ping to US servers from here. For me and many like me it's the single most important thing they can do. I'd like to be playing now, but the best ping I can get is 600, and there's hardly anybody in that server. I haven't played for two whole months because of this.

With bots I could at least mess around and shoot something.

B3RS3RK
05-02-2010, 04:36 AM
Yep, but watch the other part I said.Why would they make Bots if making those would take as much as making the whole game?And if it would obviously only affect a small part of the Buyers?

LoganDougall
05-02-2010, 07:08 AM
Existing topic/FM response - http://getsatisfaction.com/futuremark/topics/single_player_full_story_driven_campaign

Ryne S.
05-02-2010, 08:18 AM
I hope they add bots.

Isodus
05-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Not for me. Either they add bots or I can't play at all because of my timezone and the massive ping to US servers from here. For me and many like me it's the single most important thing they can do. I'd like to be playing now, but the best ping I can get is 600, and there's hardly anybody in that server. I haven't played for two whole months because of this.
With bots I could at least mess around and shoot something.

I don't know if you've tried these servers at all or not, but having a 200 ping really isnt that bad in this game. I don't know if it is because of the coding or not, but I live on the west coast of the US and have played on servers in France and some of the official EU servers. I get about a 200-300 ping, but I really don't notice much of any lag.

It seems about 50/50 any more as to whether the server is EU or US based that is populated, I'm assuming the 600 ping servers are the US ones so the EU should be a better/playable ping.

vijil
05-02-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm in New Zealand - everywhere is a bad ping besides Australia and sometimes I'll manage a 300 to the US - but that's generally at about 6am or something.