Firepower Weapons Pack Complements and Criticism

[Isodus]

Instead of flooding the forums with multiple threads complimenting or criticizing basically the same things over and over again regarding today's release of the Firepower Weapons Pack I would hope if anyone posting on the steam forums would use this thread. Please keep this as mature as possible, everyone understands that this latest pack had a huge change on the game but simply posting that because of whatever change was made makes you hate it and if it isn't changed back immediately you'll quit. Instead I recommend using this formula:

State the change you did not like, state why you do not like it, if possible give a reason why overall this is a bad decision on the part of FM (in other words, why you think it will drive away more players than bring in), and then finally any ideas you have that could change this for the better (just changing it back is fine, but thinking of something more is much better).

Don't forget this is meant for compliments as well, what changes were made that you liked and why do you think it was an improvement? Where do you think FM could go to make it better (either adding to it or refining it).

Since this post is becoming rather long I'll post my compliments/criticism in the next message.

[YoEr13]

Criticisms:

Grenade Pistol: I just really feel this is a step backwards. Due to this, tossing around grenades is a lot less fluid. Plus the counter is in a bad spot. I will commend the range finder, though. Revert to a similar style for the nade launcher. Not necessarily an undermount attachment, but something that doesn't require taking out a different weapon. Making the count larger and in a slightly better place would be a good idea too.

Pistol: Only one aspect. Taking out the pistol is weird. I'll hit Q, pull it out, but I can't shoot for, like, two seconds even though there's no longer an animation. Either extend the animation or reduce the time where you can't fire it.

Moon Pick: The animation seems really slow and clunky. It just bothers me. It also doesn't seem like he follows through with a swing making it a but hard to judge timed swings. Polish the animation a bit.

Compliments:

Pistol: Aside from what I listed, the pistol is a fantastic addition. Great accuracy with relatively low damage to balance. Gives shotty users a chance on those open maps.

Shotgun: Favorite weapon here. The high mobility is what I really feel that you did right. Zipping around the map and using hit and run tactics really make this weapon shine.

Machine Gun: A defenders dream weapon. Plant yourself by the cap point, zoom into the red dot scope, and unload. I must admit, that relatively short reload time kind of makes it overpowered, but you can't use the thing worth a damn unless you're planted.

Can't comment on much else. Haven't used any weapons except those listed.

[Isodus]

Criticism

Problem:
The guns don't look that great in comparison to the original assault rifle. I think they look overall kind of fake, as if they are made of plastic. I think this look might have something to do with the white parts of the guns but I'm not certain of this, it's just that in space if you want to have visual stealth the best way to go is all black and the fact that most guns people see on tv are pretty much black or gray with no white.

Solution:
I realize some people might like the current color schemes, so if FM is wanting to keep these in the game might I suggest possibly having multiple color schemes for the guns that are unlockable. This could be similar to the space suits however instead of unlocking the next skin and being stuck with it, you can choose which skin you would like to have. People like customization and although doing this might not bring in more players, I think it will keep them in game longer if they can customize their gun that they are always staring at rather than get tired of looking at something they might see as ugly.

Problem:
The text on the hud for ammo and grenades is really small, before although it was off to the side it was really big. It took only a short glance or even a look out the corner of your eye to tell how much ammo was left in your current clip, what grenade was selected, and how many grenades you had left. Now it takes a bit of looking to figure that out and if you are in a brighter area or an area that has a similar color to the hud, it's almost impossible to see. I realize it's still the first day and I haven't had a huge amount of play time, so it could just be needing to get used to, but even still I think it needs change.

Solution:
To fix the problem of looking at an area that is lit up a similar color (or just a bright area like a flare) as your hud, I suggest maybe a darker background around the radar/info area. This doesnt have to be a big ugly black box, but simply a gradient or something that is semi transparent but obviously darkened (of course it could be a black box, but I don't have any great ideas to give you on that, which wouldn't turn out ugly). The other solution is to make the text a bit bigger, now I'm not suggesting the sizes they were originally since that would look weird in the middle of your screen, but maybe 1.5-2x the size they are now.

Complements:

At first I was concerned that the guns would imbalance the game, but from what little I have played each gun really seems pretty balance and each gun has it's own situation it is obviously situated for. This adds a little more strategy to the game and I think it was done in such a way (we'll have to wait and see to be certain) that the strategy wont be so much team based, but individual based. In other words, what is the individual going to do and what is their play style and from that what gun will best suit that round/situation. Team based would be, something like having excess number of x, y, and z gun, but you are short on w, so the someone needs to change to w in order for the team to stand a chance against the enemy who has enough of each.

The radar, I really do like the change of everything to that one location. If I need to know anything about myself or my surroundings I simply look there.

Reload animation being interrupted by other actions such as melee, grenade, or boost. I don't know how many times I got killed because I couldn't get under cover after someone came around a corner that I didn't know about but I was stuck reloading.

Range meter was done wonderfully imo. It still has the whole "get the feel" type of system where you need to figure out how long of a charge lets it go for what distance, but at least now I know what duration of a charge I'm using.

This last bit isn't really criticism or compliments, but why were the bullets animation changed? I liked the old ones more (the new ones are fine) but I'm just wondering why the change?

[honrguard]

Criticism:

Genade pistol makes the grenades less useful in combat.

AR needs a new paint job.

I'm not sure if this is still a problem, but the hands don't look all that great with the SMG, Shotgun, and Pistol. Needs better normal maps/textures.

Pick needs a faster, more aggressive animation

MG's sound effect could be a little deeper

Rail Gun's overpowered. 2 shots to kill would be best, imo.


Complements:

Great weapons. I'm particlarly fond of the Shotgun, MG, and Pistol.

Break reload feature is very much appreciated

New grenades are genius

Grenade pistol reduces grenade spam

Range indicator's very helpful

While I prefer it on the gun, the new HUD's well designed


Misc.

It'd be nice to see the return of the feature where guns wear down with session time, rank, or maybe even how long you use each weapon.

ADS could use a little Depth of Field.

[JJ509]

When I first heard about adding new weapons I was the first to be like "great this will ruin the game" We already had a 4 in 1 weapon (assault, snipe, grenade launcher, melee) Now they had to change is to where you only can use one at a time now instead of all 4 at once. It now takes forever to pull out the grenade pistol. It feels like the bullet spread is HUGE now. Far less accuracy then before. Overall just a big disappointment.

[honrguard]

When I first heard about adding new weapons I was the first to be like "great this will ruin the game" We already had a 4 in 1 weapon (assault, snipe, grenade launcher, melee) Now they had to change is to where you only can use one at a time now instead of all 4 at once. It now takes forever to pull out the grenade pistol. It feels like the bullet spread is HUGE now. Far less accuracy then before. Overall just a big disappointment.

How long have you played? I may take some people a while to get used to aiming with the new guns. Initially, I'd be lucky to get even one kill, but after working with the new weapons for a while, I played better than I did before.

[LoganDougall]

Personally I love the new DLC and believe we did a good job in working out the balancing during arco testings - things were much much more skewed in build one....god... but they got better right up till release where everything seemed to flow.


However, I've collected a few things that are negatives towards the new weapons from other sources: Weapons Missing Triggers? (Shotgun)
Weapon Designs are physically flawed, ie Ejection port and forward assist don't line up with the barrel. (AR, MG)
Some of the sights are unusable design (not just in-game but handling real life wouldn't work)
But Stock of Railgun would not dampen recoil, would just fly up and off due to current curve design?

All of these just add up to some more research done as to the components that make up a weapon to accuracy depict them in a video game - you'd be surprised just how many people are knowledgeable in this field and take note of these things. Since FM fixed up some terminology use in their media releases I think they could potentially address these in a later update as well to be as accurate as possible.

[Isodus]

When I first heard about adding new weapons I was the first to be like "great this will ruin the game" We already had a 4 in 1 weapon (assault, snipe, grenade launcher, melee) Now they had to change is to where you only can use one at a time now instead of all 4 at once. It now takes forever to pull out the grenade pistol. It feels like the bullet spread is HUGE now. Far less accuracy then before. Overall just a big disappointment.

If you are holding down your fire button yes the spread is huge, I just went 19/4 with about half of my kills headshots using the new Assault rifle.

I agree the grenades have a bit of a lag now, but I can kind of see why it was done, to limit MPR boosting and grenade spam. Now you have to plan when you want to use the grenades more in advance rather than on a whim, although I'd like to see the grenades back to the speed they were before, I won't have a problem with the way they are now.

Also not to be mean, but your post is exactly what I was hoping to avoid. The way you said the problems you have makes it come across as being really immature, if you want the problem fixed give ideas for solutions and quite saying "I told you so."

Now, for further criticism/compliments of my own.

... Actually I don't really have anything more really, mostly questions if anyone else is seeing the same thing and thinking what I am.

During boost and when firing gun, the camera seems to shake more than it did before. I kind of liked the camera not shaking during boost and when firing just the cross hairs getting wider, but after play for a while longer I have gotten used to it. I think this is a more preference thing, and it really isn't a huge deal so if there is no change to this or no option to turn it off I can easily live with it.

Does anyone else think the railgun does too much damage? It takes about 4/5 of your health for any non-headshot which is almost impossible to recover from. With the old AR in sniper mode it took 1/2 - 2/3 of your hp, which although it left you down, you were definitely not out. I know this means I just have to be extra careful about where and how I fly, but I think the damage for non headshots might need to be toned down. Anyone else agree or is it just me?

Also upon further investigation I realized that part of the problem with reading the selected grenade and number of grenades left is due to that readout being actually inside the bottom of the radar. I think moving it completely below the radar would help in visibility and legibility quite a bit, though text size really does need to be increased regardless.

[honrguard]

I've been meaning to ask: what exactly is MPR boosting?

[Isodus]

It's where you fire an MPR grenade at a surface so that it bounces back and explodes behind you and allows you to fly really fast.

Any time you are in a server and see someone fly by you really quickly (they also bounce a little but nothing like warping) that is because they mpr boosted.

I wasn't the greatest at it before Firepower, but I tried doing it now and it's pretty hard, for me at least. I could probably start doing it again, but it will take a lot more practice.

[bankaiuser]

I love the Grenade Pistol but I would like that the Flare Grenade were less effective because they throw three at you and you can't view anything :P

By the way.. I had to turn down Ambient Occlusion and Shadows in order to get a performance gain. It was unplayable at 1680x1050, everything max, 2AA with this update.

Q9550
2x2GB
5850 1GB @ Win 7 64 @ Catalyst 10.4

[Isodus]

Radar HUD ideas
Ok so now that I know what everything is around the Radar I have an idea to make everything much more visible without taking up much more (if any more) room on your screen.

The number above the SI bar (max bullets in clip) replace it with the number of grenades you have. It doesn't have to be a fraction, just the number you have left. Between the two numbers is this little bar that goes down toward the number of bullets in your current magazine, replace it with the text for the current selected grenade, and make the text larger than it currently is. The bar that goes down is the same thing as the number that goes down, since you have the number and it is much more information with less concentration, why have the bar? Once that is gone you have all that space to fit any of the grenade names again without taking up much space at all.

All those numbers and indications to how much ammo you have are really redundant, so why have them? Players will know what their max number of rounds are when they select the weapon (it says in the loadout screen iirc) and also from when they spawn they can see the number. They don't need to be constantly told what their maximum number is by a static number displayed on the screen all the time, it only confuses people. A number or bar that changes is much easier to figure out by actions and interactions than a static number. When you shoot, the bullet counter goes down, that is obviously your bullets; when you get shot, the bar above SI goes down, that is your hp; when you boost the bar above B goes down, that is your boost.

[tb87670]

I played this game for a week at first hen left due to only way to win was get the drop on someone, everything so so much the same the game fell to luck. Now the game gives teams purpose, some rush while others can lay back. I now enjoy this game much much more.

[Keyelite]

Criticisms:

Grenade Pistol: I just really feel this is a step backwards. Due to this, tossing around grenades is a lot less fluid. Plus the counter is in a bad spot. I will commend the range finder, though. Revert to a similar style for the nade launcher. Not necessarily an undermount attachment, but something that doesn't require taking out a different weapon. Making the count larger and in a slightly better place would be a good idea too.

Pistol: Only one aspect. Taking out the pistol is weird. I'll hit Q, pull it out, but I can't shoot for, like, two seconds even though there's no longer an animation. Either extend the animation or reduce the time where you can't fire it.

Moon Pick: The animation seems really slow and clunky. It just bothers me. It also doesn't seem like he follows through with a swing making it a but hard to judge timed swings. Polish the animation a bit.


I agree with this. These are really my only criticisms (the weapons are awesome and everything else is fine).

The grenade pistol makes sense as a solution to 'throwing' nades in space, and I personally don't mind it-- BUT I do feel that it gets a little confusing with so many grenade types. I have no idea how you can address this though. I also noticed when I hit Q to pull out my pistol, I switch to a different grenade type. It's sort of annoying since sometimes I just want to keep my nade type on decoy, or EMP, for instance.


The pistol, as you said, has this weird pause after you pull it out that makes it feel like it's bugged. You would be out of ammo, then hit Q to switch to your pistol and start firing-- but it would never fire. When it does work though, it's INCREDIBLY satisfying when you take out the enemy and live.

I noticed the moon pick could be a bit faster in the animation. Going past an enemy and trying to moon pick them seems quite difficult (but would be INCREDIBLY satisfying if you did). It just feel's like it's less spontaneous to use and more of a novelty kill. I mean what's stopping you from putting three bullets in their back instead? I haven't used it too much so this was my first gut reaction to the moon pick. Maybe it's better for humiliation kills, who knows.
EDIT: After playing with it a bit more, I think it's balanced just fine the way it is. It's definitely better than the old melee weapon.


The rest is great though. SMG is great, the assault rifle is great, the machine gun is great, even the shotgun and sniper rifle. If you just spectate the match, it feels like there's so much more life going on in the firefights.
I do think the UI/controls could be a little more streamlined somehow. The UI + Space + keybinds + grenade types gets a little overwhelming sometimes.

[Sekh765]

I very much like this new DLC, it helps give the game more variety and all new situations to deal with, plus team makeup will now be something factored into games. I am a particular fan of the SMG, as I have been able to use it in flyby maneuvers due to the low spread and high fire rate, something that wasn't as easy to pull off before. A very fun hit and run weapon.

I agree that the Grenade pistol seems to limit the usefulness of grenades, not sure how to fix it besides adding a grenade launcher to every gun, which would look and seem kind of ridiculous. I love the new grenades though. Using decoy grenades to pull in campers is just way too funny.

[Blindjonn]

Praises (major):

New weapons are EXACTLY WHAT THIS GAME ALWAYS NEEDED.

New weapons and grenades are hugely entertaining and at times astoundingly useful without being frustrating to fight against.

The ability to adopt a clear cut role allows for better team play.

So many new ways to play massively increases this game's originally poor longevity.

The delay in switching to the Grenade Pistol means that grenades are harder to spam, important considering the amount we now spawn with. Grenade Pistol functions quite nicely once you are used to the HUD.

Criticisms (minor):

New weapons are generally very ugly and/or unfeasible, in particular the Grenade Pistol which simply doesn't make sense.

Possible drop in performance. Some new maps seem poorly optimised.

Grenades are less intuitive.

The powerful SMG possibly renders the shotgun redundant, as they both operate in very similar roles.

Melee animation is horrible, a few other weapon switch animations could use work.
Possible overuse of the Railgun, which dissuades players from aggressive objective capturing.

Some control config overlaps. Q changing grenades as well as switching to pistol (?) and control help and weapon switch assigned to F1.

Fixes:

Patch the obvious bugs and minor balance problems once they are clear.

Optimize.

Slightly remodel the obviously impossible weapons and animations.

Possibly introduce a 'classic mode' which retains the original weapon config, but only if there is enough demand for it.

Obviously this isn't perfect and is in need of a patch, but the Devs should be commended for such an ambitious update. We need more support exactly like this for more games. Congratulations, Futuremark, I am extremely grateful.

[JJ509]

@ Isodus-

Sorry for my poor post, I was on a rant all day yesterday, I absolutely hate what they've done to this game. To me they took away the best part of the game which was the HUD and ammo counter on the gun IMO. I'll try playing more today after work to see if I warm up to it.

[bankaiuser]

Congratulations, Futuremark, I am extremely grateful.
Me too. I love the new update. I love ALL the weapons and the Grenade Pistol, which gives a lot of realism IMO.

I'm looking forward to a patch that can improve the performance, which was GREATLY reduced. I'm getting 20 fps very often with AO off, Shadows and Shaders in Balance and Post Proceesing in Balance. Before this update I had been playing with everything max and the minimum fps I ussualy got, were 25 fps.

Q9550 @ stock - 2x2GB - 5850 1GB @ Catalyst 10.4 - Win 7 64

[FM_Piit]

Instead of flooding the forums with multiple threads complimenting or criticizing basically the same things over and over again regarding today's release of the Firepower Weapons Pack I would hope if anyone posting on the steam forums would use this thread. Please keep this as mature as possible, everyone understands that this latest pack had a huge change on the game but simply posting that because of whatever change was made makes you hate it and if it isn't changed back immediately you'll quit. Instead I recommend using this formula:

State the change you did not like, state why you do not like it, if possible give a reason why overall this is a bad decision on the part of FM (in other words, why you think it will drive away more players than bring in), and then finally any ideas you have that could change this for the better (just changing it back is fine, but thinking of something more is much better).

Don't forget this is meant for compliments as well, what changes were made that you liked and why do you think it was an improvement? Where do you think FM could go to make it better (either adding to it or refining it).

Since this post is becoming rather long I'll post my compliments/criticism in the next message.

Very good and useful thread. Thanks Isodus :cool:

[ROBOLEADER]

Overall I am very much still enjoying SH, and since I'm too lazy at the moment to recover my SH forums password, I'll just post my feedback here for now :D

Compliments:

-The sounds.

-While I sorely miss the old all-purpose rifle, I find myself adjusting to the newer weapons well.

-You brought a lot of players back, and some say they hope to stay. If this means no more empty servers I'll be ecstatic.

-The weapons seem pretty well-balanced.

Gameplay gripes:

-The delay between pulling out the pistol and firing is weird as hell and needs to be synced with the animation.

-With 6 grenade choices, grenade selection now seems a bit clunky with the default controls.

-Genade choices change when swapping between the pistol and primary weapon.

-Reload animations often simply don't work if interrupted for any reason.

Aesthetic gripes:

-The viewmodel for the assault rifle looks a bit off to me, like it would be uncomfortable to hold it.

-The new weapons' viewmodels don't seem to have the same visual polish that the original rifle had. The shiny black brushed metal of the original rifle was much more pleasing to the eye than the matte whites of the newer ones.

My only "what the hell how did this get past testing" gripe:

The help and weapon selection screens are bound to the same button. What. The. Hell.

[Isodus]

Weapons balancing:
These are mostly my opinion, though I think they are fairly valid concerns and I will try and explain why the best I can.

Railgun:
The damage is too great, if I take any damage from anything a single raigun shot can then kill me even if it is not a headshot. Or the other way around is true as well, a railgun shot takes my health so low, that a bullet from any other weapon will kill me. The damage with the old sniper mode on the old AR I think was actually perfect even for the Railgun and here is why.

A headshot is still the only way you can get a one shot kill (even with the railgun) otherwise it is a two shot kill. The old damage did about 1/2 to 2/3 of the health bar. This allowed a player shot by the sniper that wasnt a kill to be able to make an escape even under light fire from someone else (though this required a bit of luck as well). Reducing the damage would also encourage people to get better with the gun rather than simply spamming it as it seems to be now. If left at it's current damage I fear that the game will almost always devolve into a sniper war with people simply spamming their shots instead of using skill. If the game does end up being primarily sniper wars I think it will end up driving away more players rather than having a game were all the guns are really balanced which will draw in more players.

Pistol:
I haven't used it too much but from what I have seen this does a little too much damage, I think decreasing the damage a little but increasing the accuracy would be the way to go with this gun.

I've see several people simply running around doing killing sprees (and being quite effective) with the pistol when in reality it really should be the last ditch weapon even for railgun/shotgun.

All Weapons:
If I'm incorrect here forgive me, but just one thing I think could help.

Using the scope should increase accuracy a little, if it does now I don't think it is enough. Everyone I've talked to in game and on my friends list thinks it doesnt do anything. The reason for stating this is because if using the scope actually doesnt increase accuracy then there really is no reason to use it. Yes instead of the wider spread crosshairs you get a more specific dot, but at the cost of losing a lot of your field of vision. The cost outweighs the benefits and in the end most people will end up not using it. A way to balance out the (further) increased accuracy is to decrease the field of vision even more, and by that I mean what you can't see in the scope gets completely blocked out or very limited, or if it isnt in place already, removing the radar.

Grenades:
If I hit my grenade button and release it too fast, the grenade doesnt fire and I put away my grenade pistol. I think it would be an improvement that even if the delay is still in there for the time to fire the grenade that a click will still fire it. (if this is simply a bug then ignore this and I apologize)

The last few things that I havent talked about are things other people have mentioned before. The pistol animation should either be extended (possibly the player checking the pistol as he does primary when they spawn) or the delay after it is pulled out removed. Then also the animation for the melee attack needs to be polished a little, sped up and extend how far the swing goes across the screen (in order to make up the difference for the quickened animation?).

Default keybindings:
This one was really a slip up on FM part, several of the default keybindings now overlap. Since I have changed my keybindings so much I really didn't notice this but here are my suggestions.

Next grenade, change that to the scroll wheel on the mouse default.
Change weapon, many games have the switch team button as default to "m" since SH has the defect to other team button in the wrist menu they could use this (since it is a button everyone is familiar with) as their switch weapon button.

I havent found any of the other ones yet, but then again that could easily be because I've changed mine so much.

[BundD]

I like the new DLC. Makes the game more interesting.

I like........
-All the weapon choices
-The sound effects
-Game atmosphere
-MORE PEOPLE playing!

I don't like.............
-The gun models. Even playing at 2048x1152 the guns don't look nice. The old gun looked sick
-The flare gun.
-FPS drop

Every other addition is great :).................keep it up!

[honrguard]

Pistol:
I haven't used it too much but from what I have seen this does a little too much damage, I think decreasing the damage a little but increasing the accuracy would be the way to go with this gun.

I've see several people simply running around doing killing sprees (and being quite effective) with the pistol when in reality it really should be the last ditch weapon even for railgun/shotgun.

I like that the pistol's actually useful. I think they should keep it as-is. :)

All Weapons:
If I'm incorrect here forgive me, but just one thing I think could help.

Using the scope should increase accuracy a little, if it does now I don't think it is enough. Everyone I've talked to in game and on my friends list thinks it doesnt do anything. The reason for stating this is because if using the scope actually doesnt increase accuracy then there really is no reason to use it. Yes instead of the wider spread crosshairs you get a more specific dot, but at the cost of losing a lot of your field of vision.


I don't know if they changed anything since the arco build, but using the scope does make a difference. Unload a clip on a wall while scoped and unscoped to see what I mean. .....

[Isodus]

.....

Heh, the pistol and scope part might be a bit too soon for me to make judgement, I haven't gone that far into testing it like you seem to have.

And again I really don't use the pistol all that much since I treat it as a secondary and only pull it out when absolutely necessary.

If what you say is correct then after this weekend (when I can really play it in length) I'll probably be going back on those parts.

[vijil]

"Some of the sights are unusable design"

This is true. Ever tried looking through standard sights with a paintball mask on? Impossible. It would be significantly worse with a space helmet on. I suspect that in a real life space combat scenario all sighting systems would be slaved to the suit HUD rather than being physical sights. The again in real life there would be no ice grenades either.

I agree that the weapons seem hastily designed from an aesthetic and functional point of view. Especially the grenade pistol which looks like it was slapped together absolute last minute. I work as a concept artist myself - I'd like to have a go at some fan redesigns.

That's a minor issue however. The gameplay seems pretty good to me. Please don't nerf any weapons, rather make OP ones slightly harder to use.

[Keyelite]

And again I really don't use the pistol all that much since I treat it as a secondary and only pull it out when absolutely necessary.


Same here, but it seems when I absolutely need it, it won't fire. There is that noticeable delay between pulling it out and firing usually will kill you as a result. So much for having a "trusty" side arm. If they make that quicker, it would be SO much more satisfying to use. Otherwise, it's technically more useful if it's already pulled out.

[blueyes77]

Now game real worth is 5€, before it was 20€

Complaints:
- You have removed improving player skills and turned them into improve guns.
- You have changed gameplay from challenging to nobrainer, now you just shoot and die, before you manouvered and planned attacks.

Congrats: for making plastic looking guns that will excite about 1 hour and then they feel old.

btw: Arconauts program sucks, idea was not to make guns worse, but better, example: pistol

[vijil]

^ grow up. This thread is for constructive crit, not being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Me, I'm out. Not because I don't like the weapons (I do) but because I get kicked for ping spikes every three minutes and always have - I'm talking about the australian internode server here mostly, but many do it. Because every time I get into a firefight my framerate drops enough to get me killed, despite being on the lowest possible settings. Because that's getting a little too annoying to put up with. Because the framerate hotfix didn't work for me.

It's a shame. I love the concept and I think the execution is great. I wish FM all the best in future and understand that they're doing their darnedest to make this game great. I'm going to come back in a few months to see if things work better. Til then, peace.

[Isodus]

If what you say is correct then after this weekend (when I can really play it in length) I'll probably be going back on those parts.

I'm already willing to take back what I said about the scope, it does improve the accuracy, I think it was more me expecting the old hit registry system and not the new one (still taking a bit to force myself to realize I have to lead a little more now).

As for the pistol, well I still haven't played around with it much but I'll do that tomorrow and get back to it, though I feel I'll probably be eating my words on that one as well. From the little bit that I have played with it, it does seem to be balanced with accuracy and damage.

I've also had more time to mess around with melee and I think that part of the problem might be that the damage is actually done when the pick is still coming down in the upper left corner of the screen. I think simply speeding up the animation a little so that the damage is done when the pick is in the center of the screen would help a lot in making the game feel more fluid. As far as the animation feeling a bit off beyond that I'll have to take a look into it further.

I'll leave off with a small, useless, glitch that I have found. Right after spawning if you hold down your roll button (default is right click I believe) and melee you should see your pick appear at the end of your gun and not actually do the animation. The window for this to occur is maybe 10 seconds after spawning, but still a kind of funny thing to do while you are flying in.

[honrguard]

As for the pistol, well I still haven't played around with it much but I'll do that tomorrow and get back to it, though I feel I'll probably be eating my words on that one as well. From the little bit that I have played with it, it does seem to be balanced with accuracy and damage.


Yeah, it's fine now. The damage seems to be lower than usual (though I'm still pretty good with it). :(

Also, I'd like to point out that every now and either the sound effect or animation for reloading is delayed and after it happens, the delay gets longer each time you reload. I'm not sure what the cause is, though.

[harry_zhe]

I think the weapons are inappropriate for the game.

If you look at the SH "world" youll see that the two beligerents involved are small mining bases (i mean, you can see a lot of the moon in-game and you can see it's not a teeming metropolis)
and small teams deployed to space (usually a single shuttle can be seen as the source of these guys, not a giant space hulk for a normandy-scale invasion of the moon.)

This suggests to me that the forces fighting it out were fairly impromptu, taking up arms with the standard weapon and getting their ♥♥♥ into space ASAP. You've added military style weapons to a game about a non-military action.

The MMC are not an army, their weapons would be those of a security force on a sensetive colony, and the ISA aren't an army either, but rather obviously something more like a law enforcement unit, think of a space-SWAT. In reality, these kinds of forces are smaller in number and almost always use all-standardised weapons... Their numbers just aren't big enough to justify carrying different, incompatible weaponry. So the "only one gun" actually made a lot of sense and complimented the setting perfectly. The grenades, being all non-lethal, also helped to convey this non-military feel. Machineguns, railguns etc have just destroyed this and made it feel less like a real hard sci fi and more like the dreaded "COD in space" type of thing. I mean, machinegunners for crying out loud. Machineguns! For suppressing large numbers of guys - the kind of numbers that aren't even seen in the game.

What's next, air strikes? I mean, If we supposedly have full sets of military hardware and troops being deployed surely there are gunships and orbital bombardment platforms as well? (THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION) It's this kind of military image the game should stray from, and be instead unique.

Why guns? Why listen to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who think more guns = better gameplay? You're the designers, not them.

The reason the game is feeling so stale to people is because of the gameplay itself. They get tired of team deathmatch, and "the masses," not being bothered to actually care to think deeply about the concept of the game and what could improve it, think that tacking on more guns would surely be the solution.

What the game probably needs most of all is a wider range of gameplay modes. You guys have come up with the most interesting and innovative FPS since halflife and the best you can do is team deathmatch and capture points?

Remember portal? Did anyone complain that portal only had one gun? At the end of the day a gun is a gun, it means nothing until it has a real role to fill in the game.

If we think about the setting, as i said above, the setting dictates smaller numbers of security or enforcement type operators. I might suggest some kind of missions with a story to them. Rescuing people, doing objectives kind of stuff. It doesn't really make sense to spend millions of dollars inserting a few guys into space so they can line up and start firing at another line of guys. The point capture game mode comes very close... But it the game is still invariably solved by gunfights. Think special forces, read about many special forces missions and get ideas for ways that completing objectives can be more important than eradicating the enemy. Right now, combat is the most important thing to any player, which is why people didnt like that there was only one gun. You have a beautiful gameplay element of totally unique and free movement, focus on movement and tactics rather than battles - not only will you end up with a unique and extremely entertaining game, but you wont have to pay any more weapon artists every time you make a patch.

next time, add some more maps or gameplay modes please. You had an awesome theme going, the game felt so unique and plausible enough to be called hard sci fi... But now we have some weird mish mash based on the suggestions of 15 year old COD maniacs.

I know you guys want more people to play the game but don't let it get in the way a beautiful, artistic concept which used to have a real direction and cohesion to it. Pleasseee.

[krainert]

Everything I have to say has probably been said before, but I don't really think the weapons are distinctive enough, and the idea of having separate weapons for grenades and melee doesn't exactly make attacks more elegant. I understand if people like the new, perhaps more common, approach so I'd really just like a classic mode featuring the original SH gameplay. I don't suppose one such is already there (and I just missed it)?

[honrguard]

You have a point. A very good point. While I enjoyed the 4 hour session I had today, I was kinda sad the entire time since it felt much different than the game that I've been craving all week. :(

Everything I have to say has probably been said before, but I don't really think the weapons are distinctive enough, and the idea of having separate weapons for grenades and melee doesn't exactly make attacks more elegant. I understand if people like the new, perhaps more common, approach so I'd really just like a classic mode featuring the original SH gameplay. I don't suppose one such is already there (and I just missed it)?

As would I, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. :(

[liamsharkey]

reload sound will sometimes not play in synch with animations and the moon mining pick thing has slow as ♥♥♥♥ animation
everything else is good

[vijil]

I don't really understand why the grenade pistol and regular pistol are seperate weapons. Wouldn't it make sense to have a pistol with underslung grenade launcher? That would at least give you something to shoot with while grenading. It's also a lot more elegant gameplay wise.

The other thing I still think needs fixing is the constant draws on assault missions - it should be speed based.

Also I take back what I said before about quitting - that seemed to be a bad rash of temporary network issues that pop up on certain servers. Meh :p

[Trenchgun]

1. I miss the look of the original assault rifle.

2. I also miss the concept of an undermounted grenade launcher.
Although there's not much difference in functionality, the idea of pulling out a grenade pistol so quickly and putting it back doesn't seem as realistic or practical.
I'd keep the grenade pistol perhaps for sniper rifles and heavy machine guns, but put an undermounted attachment back on the assault rifle, submachine gun, and shotgun.

3. It's better conceptually to have a dedicated sniper rifle because the concept of firing 10 bullets as one with the assault rifle never made sense.
But I don't think it's fair that the sniper rifle requires two shots to kill whereas the original assault rifle did not. Furthermore, the sniper rifle is vulnerable to enemies at closerange whereas the assault rifle was very versatile.

4. Decoys are fun.
Flares are useful.
Pulses I don't use much but they are tactically sound to have.

5. It makes no sense conceptually that weapon type is tied to jet movement speed. This is an arbitrary restriction that tries to mimic ground based ideas about weapon balance, rather than looking for other ways to make the classes stand apart in a way that is natural to space combat.

6. It's better now that I can use the assault rifle to plink far targets through the sights without the limitations imposed by being a one shot kill sniper rifle substitute.

7. Having an SMG and an assault rifle is conceptually redundant without arbitrary differences. The reasons for having these variations in earth warfare don't necessarily translate to orbital warfare.

8. I would have liked to have deployable mines, which either float where they are placed or cling to walls. Promixity fused but can be avoided by silent running.
Either I would use them to cover my back when sniping, or to defend a point.

9. The pistol is conceptually out of place. Pistols by their nature are wildly inaccurate beyond point blank, last ditch self defense weapons. This is why it's preferable with special forces to have a small machine pistol if you're serious about using it in a combat situation.
There is also no real need for anyone but the sniper to use them. There shouldn't be a need for the shotgun to use them because they shouldn't be so accurate at range.

10. The shotgun I don't think it necessary from a conceptual standpoint, and from a gameplay standpoint it's function is too narrow.


Overall I would have preferred that the weapons reflected the unique nature and challenges of orbital combat, as opposed to being cut and paste retreads of existing FPS designs.

[Isodus]

The other thing I still think needs fixing is the constant draws on assault missions - it should be speed based.

Could you clarify? I don't really get what you mean on this one.

[Keyelite]

Could you clarify? I don't really get what you mean on this one.

I think I get what he means. Every time they capture all the points and you capture all the points -- it ends in a draw.

Personally for me I just think those assault missions last a bit too long. Especially if the teams are imbalanced, it will just turn into a camp fest for 10 minutes. Not fun.

[Isodus]

I think I get what he means. Every time they capture all the points and you capture all the points -- it ends in a draw.

Personally for me I just think those assault missions last a bit too long. Especially if the teams are imbalanced, it will just turn into a camp fest for 10 minutes. Not fun.

The only time I ever see that happening is when the assault team starts camping as well. It's an odd strategy, but simply rushing to the point and defending there has proven time and time again to break this. The more coordination you have with your team mates the more effective it is, if it's just you it might take a while.

[xyos212]

1. I miss the look of the original assault rifle.

2. I also miss the concept of an undermounted grenade launcher.
Although there's not much difference in functionality, the idea of pulling out a grenade pistol so quickly and putting it back doesn't seem as realistic or practical.
I'd keep the grenade pistol perhaps for sniper rifles and heavy machine guns, but put an undermounted attachment back on the assault rifle, submachine gun, and shotgun.

3. It's better conceptually to have a dedicated sniper rifle because the concept of firing 10 bullets as one with the assault rifle never made sense.
But I don't think it's fair that the sniper rifle requires two shots to kill whereas the original assault rifle did not. Furthermore, the sniper rifle is vulnerable to enemies at closerange whereas the assault rifle was very versatile.

4. Decoys are fun.
Flares are useful.
Pulses I don't use much but they are tactically sound to have.

5. It makes no sense conceptually that weapon type is tied to jet movement speed. This is an arbitrary restriction that tries to mimic ground based ideas about weapon balance, rather than looking for other ways to make the classes stand apart in a way that is natural to space combat.

6. It's better now that I can use the assault rifle to plink far targets through the sights without the limitations imposed by being a one shot kill sniper rifle substitute.

7. Having an SMG and an assault rifle is conceptually redundant without arbitrary differences. The reasons for having these variations in earth warfare don't necessarily translate to orbital warfare.

8. I would have liked to have deployable mines, which either float where they are placed or cling to walls. Promixity fused but can be avoided by silent running.
Either I would use them to cover my back when sniping, or to defend a point.

9. The pistol is conceptually out of place. Pistols by their nature are wildly inaccurate beyond point blank, last ditch self defense weapons. This is why it's preferable with special forces to have a small machine pistol if you're serious about using it in a combat situation.
There is also no real need for anyone but the sniper to use them. There shouldn't be a need for the shotgun to use them because they shouldn't be so accurate at range.

10. The shotgun I don't think it necessary from a conceptual standpoint, and from a gameplay standpoint it's function is too narrow.


Overall I would have preferred that the weapons reflected the unique nature and challenges of orbital combat, as opposed to being cut and paste retreads of existing FPS designs.

AGREE 100%! I REALLY liked the old Rifle. The new weapons (no offense) seem rushed and very basic. Almost like bad Gun models on FPS banana. The old Rifle was a unique design, and looked badass. At least can we have it as a visual option only for the new assault rifle?

Its freaking amazing that Futuremark listens to its fans this much. I love the new maps and the concept of the new guns, just wish their design was focused on more.

I dont want to come off as ungrateful though. Thank you futuremark for all the FREE updates and support. The core zero g battle is still intact and fun as hell :D

[wazups 2x]

Criticism: When scoping into sights you need to be able to cancel scoping by clicking again. Also, it it would be very nice if you could shoot while scoping in. Doing these two things would make scoping into sights feel much more fluid.

Compliment: Love the new weapons, really adds more variety to the game.

[honrguard]

The pistol's borderline useless now. It used to be both an effective close quarters weapon as well as a good "last-ditch sidearm." Now, it's hardly effective in any situation. Also, in my last session, I realized just how frustrating the grenade pistol can be. It's too dang slow:
-Wait for GP to be taken out
-Wait for Grenade to fire
-Wait for GP to be put away
-Wait for primary to be taken out

If an enemy shows up during any one of those steps, you're as good as dead. You can't get away and you can't fight back. All you can do is wait for them to kill you. :mad:

EDIT: The AR's overpowered. It needs to be either less effective either on the ground or in flight. As it is now, it's better than the SMG and MG at both.

Also, the rank servers are frequently going down.

Criticism: When scoping into sights you need to be able to cancel scoping by clicking again. Also, it it would be very nice if you could shoot while scoping in. Doing these two things would make scoping into sights feel much more fluid.
Um, what?

[Isodus]

3. It's better conceptually to have a dedicated sniper rifle because the concept of firing 10 bullets as one with the assault rifle never made sense.
But I don't think it's fair that the sniper rifle requires two shots to kill whereas the original assault rifle did not. Furthermore, the sniper rifle is vulnerable to enemies at closerange whereas the assault rifle was very versatile.

7. Having an SMG and an assault rifle is conceptually redundant without arbitrary differences. The reasons for having these variations in earth warfare don't necessarily translate to orbital warfare.

8. I would have liked to have deployable mines, which either float where they are placed or cling to walls. Promixity fused but can be avoided by silent running.
Either I would use them to cover my back when sniping, or to defend a point.

9. The pistol is conceptually out of place. Pistols by their nature are wildly inaccurate beyond point blank, last ditch self defense weapons. This is why it's preferable with special forces to have a small machine pistol if you're serious about using it in a combat situation.
There is also no real need for anyone but the sniper to use them. There shouldn't be a need for the shotgun to use them because they shouldn't be so accurate at range.

10. The shotgun I don't think it necessary from a conceptual standpoint, and from a gameplay standpoint it's function is too narrow.

For the most part the rest of your post I agree with however these points I see major problems in if they were to change in the way I think you are asking for/suggesting.

Having a one shot kill for sniper on any shot is really just game breaking. There is a reason why most CS:S server limit one awp per team or restrict awps completely. Having two shots encourages players to actually aim for the head rather than simply spam. You can say I'm biased in this standpoint though since I'm advocating the damage for the sniper be reduced further (still two shots on a full hp opponent, but not to the degree it is now). Another game you might have played that a one shot sniper would equate to would be the golden gun in goldeneye for the N64.

Having an SMG, Assualt Rifle, and Shotgun is fine, each also have their own play style and range of effectiveness. The assault rifle has a slower rate of fire than the SMG but is more accurate at range making it a better weapon further off than the SMG. The SMG does more damage per second (assuming you land all of your bullets) than the assault rifle, but it requires you to be close to your target as the accuracy decreases rapidly. For maps where you can keep close range like most of Moondust and some of Arc this is actually a really good weapon. The same goes for shotgun although it's damage fall off and accuracy range is even shorter than the SMG, it also fires a lot slower but in return each shot does a lot more damage. Again close range combat is great but since the firing rate is slower you have to aim better (SMG is more newb friendly).

Having proximity mines is yet another spam and win strategy weapon, even if they disappear after the owner dies you still will have most of the people simply spamming all their proximity mines the second they spawn especially on the point. We have an explosive grenade (mpr) that is more than enough and in contrast requires quite a bit more skill than simply placing proximity mines.

Pistols are necessary and despite what Honrguard thinks, I believe the changes to them are fine (I just killed him with a pistol not 30 minutes ago when I ran out of primary ammo, I was still pulling out the pistol when he started to shoot me with either the SMG or AR.) Although I'm no weapons expert I've always felt in games that a more accurate less damage pistol was preferred. It would lose out to the primary weapons (because of damage and rate of fire) every time unless you get a headshot off or are really lucky, but it would be a good combo for a shotgun. If the draw was a little quicker it would also make a great combo this way for the sniper by simply putting one sniper round into the enemy then switching to pistol to finish them off (a strategy a lot of players use in CS:S and BF2142) but the draw is a little too slow for that to really work as it is now.

As for the movement speed being linked to weapons, I completely agree that from a physics standpoint it doesnt make sense. They are in a zero gravity environment with no friction, however from a gameplay standpoint and a balancing standpoint it does make sense. Giving the guns that require ambush tactics a little more speed while giving the guns that are more defensive, plant yourself here less speed.

[Keyelite]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wazups 2x View Post
Criticism: When scoping into sights you need to be able to cancel scoping by clicking again. Also, it it would be very nice if you could shoot while scoping in. Doing these two things would make scoping into sights feel much more fluid.


Um, what?


I think he means that you have to wait for the sights to go up before taking them down again, instead of canceling mid-transition. I would agree that this will give you a more fluid feel to the ironsights. I've also caught myself trying to use a grenade while scoped in. It just doesn't work.

[honrguard]

Pistols are necessary and despite what Honrguard thinks, I believe the changes to them are fine (I just killed him with a pistol not 30 minutes ago when I ran out of primary ammo, I was still pulling out the pistol when he started to shoot me with either the SMG or AR.) Although I'm no weapons expert I've always felt in games that a more accurate less damage pistol was preferred. It would lose out to the primary weapons (because of damage and rate of fire) every time unless you get a headshot off or are really lucky, but it would be a good combo for a shotgun. If the draw was a little quicker it would also make a great combo this way for the sniper by simply putting one sniper round into the enemy then switching to pistol to finish them off (a strategy a lot of players use in CS:S and BF2142) but the draw is a little too slow for that to really work as it is now.


I didn't say it was unnecessary, just useless in most situations. As it is now it's only good for taking out enemies that are either disoriented or preoccupied with someone else (the former was the situation when you killed me). It used to be an excellent weapon for guarding small control points from SMG's and shotguns.

I think he means that you have to wait for the sights to go up before taking them down again, instead of canceling mid-transition. I would agree that this will give you a more fluid feel to the ironsights. I've also caught myself trying to use a grenade while scoped in. It just doesn't work.Makes sense, though I'm indifferent on the matter.

[p4r4n01d]

2 things that made this game unique was the in space free float combat and the assault rifle.

Bring back the modes with just assault rifle so we can choose that.

[Isodus]

2 things that made this game unique was the in space free float combat and the assault rifle.

Bring back the modes with just assault rifle so we can choose that.

It's already been said that will probably not happen since it would require too much coding.

[honrguard]

2 things that made this game unique was the in space free float combat and the assault rifle.

Bring back the modes with just assault rifle so we can choose that.

Keep playing and you'll get over it. I almost am. Though I get over it immediately if they'd make the pistol more powerful. :mad: