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View Full Version : so far, im actually not impressed with Civ IV


SargentTaters
05-08-2010, 12:51 AM
Heres my story. I got a computer from a friend a while back (my very first computer, i was like 12) it had civ 2 on it. i played it a bit, but i never understood it.

a few years ago, civ rev comes out for xbox/ps3. it was the first civ game i reaaally played. i LOVE civ rev. i love everything about it.

I knew that Civ IV was gonna be different, i heard that revolution was dumbed down compared to IV.

so when i saw that the entire Civ IV pack plus colonization (basically four games) was only ten bucks, i jumped right on that.

I was kinda dissapointed when the 'complexity' was just in the ammount of tech and buildings you can make. It just doesnt seem that an individual building or tech does all that much for you, like it does in Revolution. Im not saying that im gonna stop playing, oh god no, these are just first impressions. But they ARE first impressions.

I hope i didnt make a bad purchase, I would love for this game to make me never play revolution again.

SargentTaters
05-08-2010, 02:10 AM
Bump for discussion

The only thing i actually enjoyed about the game was being able to improve tiles around your cities. that was pretty cool.

spyrochaete
05-08-2010, 05:10 AM
Keep playing, and jog your memory. There are many, many improvements in Civ 4 compared to 2.

monique
05-08-2010, 06:37 AM
I really liked Civ 4, so much so that I just picked it and all its expansions up on Steam thanks to the sale. I have a boxed copy somewhere in my boxes from when I moved out of college. I'm downloading it now on Steam after just purchasing it.

Maybe you didn't try the right civilization for you, or set your opponents to the right difficulty level.

TBH, I suggest you try multiplayer, or get a buddy and team up. I found that this particular Civ really shined when you got a buddy and worked against the AI. It was a nice way to learn it back in the day, and I plan on doing that this weekend once I get my copy up and running.

minerva79
05-08-2010, 07:21 AM
Civ2 is probably the best Civilization. So it's not surprising for that first impression.

I'm personally not as impressed with Civ4 as well. But it does seem to prevent some cheap tricks I used to use for the previous Civ games, and force me to think of new strategies. That in itself is a winner.

By the way, Colonization is a different game from Civilization. It really can't be considered as an expansion, since you don't do research, you don't win by conquering land (though that would be favourable) and you have to do a lot of diplomatic moves with the natives and your king. Not exactly the best remake under Sid Meier, but the spirit of Colonization is captured quite nicely.

SargentTaters
05-08-2010, 12:13 PM
Keep playing, and jog your memory. There are many, many improvements in Civ 4 compared to 2.

I was more comparing civ 4 to civ rev. When i said i played civ 2, that was back when i didnt understand it at all, and i didnt like it that much.

BoomWav
05-08-2010, 08:36 PM
Check the Civilopedia in the "game mechanics" sections. There's a lot of hidden stuff that you don't know. Did you know, for example, that rivers can act as road to transport resources? That's espacially great at the start of the game. Then, there's all the great zone between "economy" resource and actual money. Then, there's the culture and all that. There's a lot of hidden stuff in the game.. Read a bit, it makes everything funnier.

minerva79
05-08-2010, 09:41 PM
I was more comparing civ 4 to civ rev. When i said i played civ 2, that was back when i didnt understand it at all, and i didnt like it that much.

Civ Revolution was a pretty awesome game. It's not a hardcore strategy game in any extent, but it's a good introduction to the civilisation series. Coming from Civ Rev, you might be turned off still slightly with Civ4, due to the number of elements that are now controllable (as opposed to the elements being automated in Civ Rev). However, if you'd enjoyed Civ Rev, I bet you would enjoy Civ4 pretty soon. The curve of Civ may be steep, but it's much more manageable than some other games in the franchise (like Colonization or Master of Orion 3).

SargentTaters
05-09-2010, 12:34 AM
Civ Revolution was a pretty awesome game. It's not a hardcore strategy game in any extent, but it's a good introduction to the civilisation series. Coming from Civ Rev, you might be turned off still slightly with Civ4, due to the number of elements that are now controllable (as opposed to the elements being automated in Civ Rev). However, if you'd enjoyed Civ Rev, I bet you would enjoy Civ4 pretty soon. The curve of Civ may be steep, but it's much more manageable than some other games in the franchise (like Colonization or Master of Orion 3).

True, and thats what im hoping for.

some of the things i was worried about was during the tutorial it said that all religions are exactly the same, as to not offend anybody, i say, then what is the point of having them at all? also, like i said, it just seems as though nothing you do in the game has as much of an impact on the game. you can build this, and get a tiny bonus, it just makes the entire game seem like direction isnt that important. you can just willy nilly do what you want. Idk, ive only played the tutorial so far, and im definitly going to give the full game a shot (i think the tutorial turned me off to the game because it was way too easy, i play deity on civ rev)

minerva79
05-09-2010, 03:09 AM
True, and thats what im hoping for.

some of the things i was worried about was during the tutorial it said that all religions are exactly the same, as to not offend anybody, i say, then what is the point of having them at all? also, like i said, it just seems as though nothing you do in the game has as much of an impact on the game. you can build this, and get a tiny bonus, it just makes the entire game seem like direction isnt that important. you can just willy nilly do what you want. Idk, ive only played the tutorial so far, and im definitly going to give the full game a shot (i think the tutorial turned me off to the game because it was way too easy, i play deity on civ rev)

If you'd play diety on civ rev, why are you so stuck onto the tutorial? Just pick up the game along the way like the good old days.

And frankly, the point of having wide variety of components with tiny bonuses is great. In the most simplistic point of view, a civilisation is defined by its multiple variations coming together to found a synergy and an identity. So, you're not forced to go to the cookie cutter route (like how pretty much the previous Civ were, where anything less than Republic is pointless). Instead, you could pick and choose what you want, in accordance to your playing style.

Frankly, Civ4 ain't that hard to pick up. It's much more difficult to master and be faithful to how you wanna plan the legacy of your leader and the historical footprint your civilisation will leave behind.

Antiscamp
05-09-2010, 10:21 AM
Hear hear. I agree with the above.

Also, check out all the Civilization mods. The improvements in all the thousands of mods for civ might actually get you going. Maybe a change of setting is your cup of tea.

SargentTaters
05-09-2010, 03:08 PM
Oh i never said i was stuck on the tutorial, i was only playing the tutorial to see if it had any new features.

Luckz
05-10-2010, 05:03 AM
The curve of Civ may be steep, but it's much more manageable than some other games in the franchise (like Colonization or Master of Orion 3).

How is Master of Orion related to the "Civ franchise"?

abbe
05-10-2010, 06:21 AM
some of the things i was worried about was during the tutorial it said that all religions are exactly the same, as to not offend anybody, i say, then what is the point of having them at all?

The point of the religion is that they act as a corporation (just like real religions), they are a MASSIVE source of pure income, hammers and happyfaces and any neighbour that shares your religion will automatically be more friendly towards your actions. (Even if you are not the founder you will enjoy at least some of the bonuses.)
On the other end you will have neighbours that have another religion so they will be more annoyed towards your existence.

What the religion of the game isn't about is telling us which of the "real" religions in our world that are better or not. So even if you do not agree to the ideological stances of the religion in real life, you will not have to suffer those in the game. This is, after all, a game to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of beliefs, thus they have simplified the religions to only have the essential gameplay values.

Gunishment
05-10-2010, 08:19 AM
@SargentTaters

I hear what your saying about feeling that individually techs/buildings/wonders dont have as great an impact as in Civ Rev. Perhaps it would help if you played on a harder difficulty. I always enjoy my games the most when i feel i'm neck and neck with my opponents and i'm desperately waiting on the next tech or wonder to give me however small an edge. Also bear in mind there's a setting to change the speed of your Civ 4 campaign. That might help too.

But equally I think you'll just need a little time to get used to the slower pace of Civ 4. Personally i love the feeling of when i've fallen behind my rivals and after taking a look at where my empires gone wrong, forming a multi stage plan to fix it and seeing the results slowly over 50+ turns.

City Builder
05-16-2010, 02:25 AM
True, and thats what im hoping for.

some of the things i was worried about was during the tutorial

Wait! There's a tutorial in Civ 4? Where is it in the menu system? I could really use a tutorial right about now.

Thanks,

BuckyBit
05-16-2010, 03:29 AM
I don't 'get' the game at all. I have no time to browse 12 months through wiki-civi-pedias etc...

My first impression: I click on random things - random things happen. After 30 minutes, I still don't know what I did accept ending turns and clicking on this and that - playing this for hours without a feel for me doing strategic decisions/progress will be nothing but an unsatisfactory waste of (my) time.

People love this game. It must have depth. I cannot reach the point where all makes sense to me. The Sid Meier tutorial could only hint to what/how to play.

YouTube vids of better players didn't help me neither. I analyzed them for a bit.

I feel, this game is not for me, sadly. I don't doubt that it is 'great'.

Aesir Rising
05-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Wait! There's a tutorial in Civ 4? Where is it in the menu system? I could really use a tutorial right about now.

Thanks,

It only shows up in the starting menu for vanilla Civ IV. If you've been launching the Warlords or Beyond the Sword expansions to play you don't see it. The tutorial is very basic, sprinkled with a few obscure, but helpful tidbits of info. Everything else of use is contained in the Civilopedia - though that's a bit like reading a dictionary. I'd point you to the Game Concepts section of the Civilopedia though.

drunkugly
05-16-2010, 12:55 PM
as others are saying, the tutorial is not very hard. most of the effects of tech and development are really small. they don't seem to matter much in lower difficulties. if you up the level, then all of a sudden you don't understand why, even though you're developing your cities and whatnot, the AI just gradually seems to outpace you. then you have to read the forums (civfanatics.com) for strategies.
cottage farming is really important, because early on they do nothing, but once they have grown into towns you start to make money, and this is what you need later in the game. you'll lose just by not understanding the tiny effect each cottage has over time. also , where to place them. do you go farming to increase population or cottage? city placement also becomes crucial. you learn to spot ideal sites;i.e. next to a river, with a resource, easily defensible. if you attack across a river, the defenders have an advantage, so if you set your city with a river between you and your opponent, they have to attack across it.
the techs work in a similar way. sometimes the tech you're pursuing really doesn't matter, but it is on the way to something important. knowing what techs are key game changers matter. knowing if you're going to go war monger or peaceful affects the tech tree decisions you make.
all these things take time to pick up. i'd play a lower difficulty setting and practice cottage farming. then learn about another strategy like specialized cities, and try that out. once you have a few strats and understand the importance of the tech tree, the harder difficulties will show you how the little effects actually add up to a lot.

Nox
05-17-2010, 06:26 AM
I have been addicted to Civ3 but the game completely frustrates me. In fact, I've logged 50+ hours in that damn game and I still don't understand how superior combat units can lose to inferior ones. So because I have failed to grasp some of the underlying game mechanics I decided to pass on Civ4 (part of me wishes I hadn't, but oh well).

However, I did check out Civ Rev for XBOX360 and I think it was everything I wished part 3 was. Simple game mechanics, easy to learn, fun to play (and I still lose some combat and can't figure out why, but whatever, the other stuff is fun). So I'll be playing that for a while.

I definitely hope that you find some fun in Civ4, but it may just be that you are like me playing a game you can't seem to put down, and yet makes you want to put your foot through the computer when you are 3+ hours into a map and Japan decides to use their bullet blocking samurai swords on your riflemen's backsides crushing 50% of your cities in a few turns because they liked your well paved roads. #$^%!

:cool:

City Builder
05-17-2010, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the info on where the tutorial is located. I actually found it very helpful for some very minor but key points that I did not fully know. It was worth digging out the original Civ 4 disk to load up vanilla Civ 4.

I am finding that the more that I play the game, even only a couple hours here and a few hours there, it's slowly starting to sink in. I can play it as long as I just follow the suggestions on what to build and don't try to form my own strategy using my own choices of what to build (other than the obvious of buildign more military units when I need them) but I'm slowly trying to break free of that and form my own strategy on what to build to accomplish how I wish to play.

Watching some Youtube videos was actually also immensely helpful, especially the ones that bothered to explain why they do what they do in the game instead of those that just do it which doesn't help me at all.

So, slowly getting the hang of Civ 4, but know I've got a long uphill road to travel to get to the point of doing something as simple as choosing the items in the build list and the techs that maybe are not the suggested item or tech.

lyravega
05-19-2010, 01:09 PM
I grabbed Civ IV as soon as I was able to. I missed the sale though, I got Civ IV due to Mac releases. I wasn't able to buy it before, but I guess they released it worldwide finally.

Well, aside from that, the civipedia helps a lot if you like reading. Leave a PM if you would like to learn a bit more about the game, by playing together I mean.

Also, Civilization is a game, that lies in the details. Some micro-managament if words suit.

And, a suggestion, if you like specializing your cities (playing with a few maybe), never automate your workers.

Vargas78
05-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Make sure you play with Beyond the Sword as well for the extra features. I admit though, Civ IV is not as complex as some games, but it still requires skill and strategy, and the artificial intelligence is some of the best. I've had A.I. opponents use suprisingly complex strategies especially later on in the game, while in Civ II it was just a case of Steam Roller your way in.

HadesScorn
05-22-2010, 06:12 AM
May I suggest Fall from Heaven II, one of the better known mods out there?

Each race is truly unique. Resources are game-changers and worth fighting entire wars over. Religions can usher in enlightenment or crack the gates of hell.

Basically, FfH2 is like civ4 on crack.
Main forum with links to the mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190
Handy manual, a little outdated but gives an idea of the scale of FfH2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=265888

chaoztheory1
05-22-2010, 03:22 PM
I haven't played Civ 4 in over a year because I lost my CD key [hence why I love STEAM so much]

Civ IV never had a CD Key, and I own the CD version, hence why I don't own any of the expansions.

Aesir Rising
05-23-2010, 09:51 AM
No Key needed. However, I own the CD version of Gold and BtS. With the latest patch to BtS (3.19) you don't need the CD in the drive to launch BtS. But you do need the Gold CD in the drive if you want to run either vanilla or Warlords (for their respective tutorial and Scenario maps). So... if you have the disks still, you should be fine.

The disk requirement may not apply to the disk version of The Complete Edition (I only have the Steam version of that).

lyravega
05-23-2010, 10:21 AM
some of the things i was worried about was during the tutorial it said that all religions are exactly the same, as to not offend anybody, i say, then what is the point of having them at all?

Yes, they're basicly the same, and they have their impact on Diplomacy mostly. Other civilizations that share the same religion will trust you more, while other ones that don't, will get angry more and more. And even though they're the same, benefit of having one religion is 25% production bonus with "Organized Religion" civic! :P

also, like i said, it just seems as though nothing you do in the game has as much of an impact on the game. you can build this, and get a tiny bonus, it just makes the entire game seem like direction isnt that important. you can just willy nilly do what you want.

World Wonders mate. Or National Wonders. If you inspect some of those, some of them provide excellent bonuses. Like +50% great person birthrate in all cities, or +1 production in all water tiles, or 25% more defense in cities... Which seems a little to you, but those effects are great. OR, the best one for me, The Great Wall, which makes barbarians unable to cross your borders a.k.a. less to worry about... Tiny things lead to victory in CivIV.