Anyone else get the feeling...

[ThatWhiteGuy]

... That the only reason Valve bothered to dig up the source files for this game was for their big mac port of their portfolio?

Think about it, we've been asking for this for years and suddenly just as valve is brushing up their package and tweaking their games to run on mac - the CSS source files get dug up for a refurbishment so those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mac users can get on with it. Fact is CS:S is CS:S because of its bugs and its mixed community and its slightly casual but charged gameplay.

This, as its been stated, is a huge move towards their casual TF2 branch.



All my ♥♥♥♥♥ing aside, I love the idea.

I just think Valve only makes improvements when it suits them. No matter how big the CS:S community had gotten, or how many bugs had been reported- none of the developers took it upon themselves to overhaul it.

Atleast its one good thing to come out of this Mac-Port travesty.

[SpecialForcie]

You just might be right.

[Vlad211]

This just in, Mac users are like lame console users. No wonder Valve is dumbing down the game in preparation for the Mac release with less recoil and faster movement speed.

[SirPorkchop]

I'm hoping this is testing grounds for bringing Half-Life 2 and Episode 1 to the Orange Box Engine.

[Matt]

This just in, Mac users are like lame console users. No wonder Valve is dumbing down the game in preparation for the Mac release with less recoil and faster movement speed.

If this is all you have to contribute, then don't.

[ThatWhiteGuy]

@Matt Good point, its not needed. But on the other hand, he summarised what I was getting at. They do seem to be the type of audience who leans more towards the less complicated style of gameplay, where everything is done for them with big nice shiny buttons and no thinking whatsoever.

CSS does require a level of skill, and I believe these additions just kicked it in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and knocked it straight down to the likes of bejeweled and peggle. Too casual for the built up dedicated community which surrounds CSS today. Bad move Valve, baaaad move.

Just my view but I think I speak for the CSS community when I say if Valve wanted to turn back now on these messed up changes. We wont miss the new horde of 12 year olds and people who cause drama. A more wholesome tribute to its long standing players would be engine side fixes, and bugs that have been around since it came out and have never been touched. Looking at these forums, some basic problems are still occuring.

A bit dissapointed they're doing this for Mac users and not their long standing PC users.

Could've hid the reason better, dont you think?

[defragen1911]

... That the only reason Valve bothered to dig up the source files for this game was for their big mac port of their portfolio?

Think about it, we've been asking for this for years and suddenly just as valve is brushing up their package and tweaking their games to run on mac - the CSS source files get dug up for a refurbishment so those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mac users can get on with it. Fact is CS:S is CS:S because of its bugs and its mixed community and its slightly casual but charged gameplay.

This, as its been stated, is a huge move towards their casual TF2 branch.



All my ♥♥♥♥♥ing aside, I love the idea.

I just think Valve only makes improvements when it suits them. No matter how big the CS:S community had gotten, or how many bugs had been reported- none of the developers took it upon themselves to overhaul it.

Atleast its one good thing to come out of this Mac-Port travesty.
And the worst part about it is that valve isnt even making the update
they got some CONSOLE devs that I never even heard of !!! hidden path!!?!?!? WTF?

I don't think valve really cares

[Mkay]

You're all completely missing the point.

They have to update their rendering engine to support DirectX AND OpenGL. The source engine is hardcoded to use DirectX. They would've (and have) done major source code editing to achieve cross-platform compatibility.

This isn't something "just to appease the mac users." This is a technical investment in a technology that will be the basis of their games for years to come.

They probably said, "well why don't we update CS while we're at it"?
EA wouldn't be caught dead doing this for free.

[defragen1911]

They probably said, "well why don't we update CS while we're at it"?
EA wouldn't be caught dead doing this for free.

oh how about "WHILE YOU'RE AT IT"
update the top played game on steam http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

this game has had bugs since release
and we've been complaining for 6 years

and when orangebox came around and dods got updated
we've been complaining for 3 years for this update


Seriously
I don't think I want deathcams....
I want bug fixes and a CSS running on the latest source engine version

And let me say the achievements are completely generic and disconnected from the game
its like somebody that doesn't play the game made them
Wheres the 1deag achievement???
Right now the achievements are like *insert weapon name* expert achievement ... like WT?F!?

[pengu1NZ]

oh how about "WHILE YOU'RE AT IT"
update the top played game on steam http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

codmw2 is owned by activision who constantly updates their game on their own.

:>

[Mkay]

oh how about "WHILE YOU'RE AT IT"
update the top played game on steam http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

That's not even a VALVe game. What are you referring to?

[Mkay]

oh how about "WHILE YOU'RE AT IT"
update the top played game on steam http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

this game has had bugs since release
and we've been complaining for 6 years

and when orangebox came around and dods got updated
we've been complaining for 3 years for this update


Seriously
I don't think I want deathcams....
I want bug fixes and a CSS running on the latest source engine version

♥♥♥♥ happens bro. Instead of pouring your anger into a post that a CS programmer wouldn't understand, try contributing to the bug thread (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263762). This is probably your only chance to get them to fix any CS bugs for the next 10 years.

[defragen1911]

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

That's not even a VALVe game. What are you referring to?
css isnt always the top ranked
but ive seen it rank over modern warfare 2 many times ( recently )

and usually the peak for css is always higher than modern warfare
even if codmw2 has more "current players" at that moment

[Mkay]

css isnt always the top ranked
but ive seen it rank over modern warfare 2 many times ( recently )

and usually the peak for css is always higher than modern warfare
even if codmw2 has more "current players" at that moment

Coulda just said CSS :)

Again, contribute, contribute, contribute to the bugs (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263762) thread! If you want your bugs to even be heard of, you need to post there with them.

[5killer]

I really don't understand how it is now casual. Right now you are really sounding like an elitist. And this just wasn't just willy nilly. I imagine the choice to port Steam games to the Mac was a huge decision on Valve's part, and since it is a Source game, it got a much needed engine upgrade, only to prepare it for the Mac release. And they also decided to add in community requests like achievements.

[GreatWorkDude]

If this is all you have to contribute, then don't.
People can't have an opinion on a public forum?

[leahcim]

... That the only reason Valve bothered to dig up the source files for this game was for their big mac port of their portfolio?

Think about it, we've been asking for this for years and suddenly just as valve is brushing up their package and tweaking their games to run on mac - the CSS source files get dug up for a refurbishment


I dunno, if the same folks have done the Mac port too, it could well be.

But, I think you could say it's because MW2 appeared and now sits at the top of the 'Most played' stats. It's clear that if the 2 communities of CS and CSS are added together it's still the biggest (and Valve has a set of games and player bases that's probably better than Activision's idea of having one big game that you shoot in the foot just as it gets big)

Perhaps they feared changing something that is so popular? It seems interesting they've elected to have a beta when TF2 updates go out warts and all and then glitches / balance and so on are fixed in later updates (although that could be explained by having a 3rd party involved)

Perhaps the folks that write the game have mostly been doing other Valve games (isn't this being done by someone else?)

Perhaps they hope lots of us that have CSS but rarely if ever play it, but are playing MW2 or TF2 will start playing it again if they update it?

But you can see already the moans, both from folk who weren't even playing CSS and feel the need to come here and say it's still rubbish? And from those who don't want change to a game they play.

I just wish it was an opt-in beta like the steam client rather than something that was probably filled before I'd finished reading the press release and clicked the link - but I guess I'll get the update eventually...maybe they should add a 'I've played 2 minutes of the beta now and moaned on the forums' button to recycle beta slots? :D

[ThatWhiteGuy]

I think most of you are missing the point here. It could be that you're one of those ♥♥♥♥ who want to see a more mainstream CSS pop up which mimics MW2 and TF2 alike - but the truth behind it all is this will put a big tear in the CSS community, and instead of attracting new players - I can see ALOT more people going idle: Biggest threat to that unfortunately are the large percentage of underage children(who shouldnt even have access to the 17+ game) who will put their heart and soul into ripping on people without as many achievements as them, or a worse array of stats.

You could ignore this ofcourse, but its one of those problems which could've easily been avoided. Before, the line between "elitest" and "casual noob" was pretty much non-existant, everyone played together. This update poses a big threat to what we all regard to be one of Valve's gems.


On another note: That guy who kept demanding we post on the bugs forum? Yeah you know who you are- I'm fairly sure you've never been there because if you had, you'd see alot of bugs have been reported countless times since it's release and there has been no effort whatsoever to capture the ones which have been presiding over us for the longest time.

Having said that, I will acknowledge that changes and updates have been applied throughout CSS's life, but those are mainly server faults or restricting a tiny minority of pesky problems.


At the end of the day, no posts in this forum will make a dent in the developer's decision, but instead it is up for discussion what your views are. If you're going to be a ♥♥♥♥ and flame anyone who voices an opinion on here, or cannot be bothered to form a stable arguement: I suggest you ♥♥♥♥ right off back to MW2 or TF2 and let the people who love CSS discuss its future.

[Hobo Joe]

And the worst part about it is that valve isnt even making the update
they got some CONSOLE devs that I never even heard of !!! hidden path!!?!?!? WTF?

I don't think valve really cares

Hidden Path aren't console devs.

[CoffeeCrazy]

I never even heard of !!! hidden path!!?!?!? WTF?
I don't think valve really cares

Don't assume that just because you don't know a studios name, that they are not good.

Many great game titles have come from groups of friends who just wanted to make a fun game, and now are top dogs in the gaming industry.

I for one, am glad to see Valve 'did something', they are too invested with other games at the moment to focus on this old game, so they've recruited the help of others so that it can actually be done.

I think it's a great first step.

[ThatWhiteGuy]

First step? Or Last?

Unfortunately, we'll have to see how far these third party devs can go with Valve's permission.

[Hobo Joe]

I think most of you are missing the point here. It could be that you're one of those ♥♥♥♥ who want to see a more mainstream CSS pop up which mimics MW2 and TF2 alike - but the truth behind it all is this will put a big tear in the CSS community, and instead of attracting new players - I can see ALOT more people going idle: Biggest threat to that unfortunately are the large percentage of underage children(who shouldnt even have access to the 17+ game) who will put their heart and soul into ripping on people without as many achievements as them, or a worse array of stats.

First legitmate crit of stats I've seen, kudos. And I agree, although stats can be nice, they have a way of turning the game into point-whoring, instead of playing effectively, as a team. Most stats are meaningless in real-game situations. Accuracy means diddly squat, as blind firing is very common, it's not a measurement of how well you can hold your crosshair on the target.

And it's all relative. You could be a world-class player, and have stats that are no better than an average player, simply because you play against equal competition, but of course things like that never phase the people who go around bragging about stats, and I guarantee a lot of people will be doing that.

It'll be a plague on pub-play, something which obviously isn't exactly a rewarding experience as is, but every game will now be full of people waving their epeens and bragging how their stats are superior to whoever they killed or whoever killed them. Right now it's just KD ratio, but pretty soon it's going to be so much more.


Brace yourselves.

[CoffeeCrazy]

First step? Or Last?


Even the last step, is still a step.

If this is the only update we'll ever see again, then so be it, I think it's a great thing.

[ThatWhiteGuy]

Definately agree with Joe on this one. Stats can have its upsides, it can even be wrong for the most part. But the underlying statement is that its going to bring a world of problems to people who play CSS competitively(not elitest) and to those who just enjoy a pub game.

As for the killcam... Who else smells increases whining about lucky shots? I can hear them now: "HAX! OMG I JUST SAW U!!! LOLOL U SHOT ME FROM BEHIND! HAX!"

But thats nothing compared to people bragging about domination <= Biggest killer of pubs ever.

Edit::

@CoffeeCrazy: Its a step that whilst comes with good intention, may have the biggest negative impact on the game.

[Nacimota]

You're all completely missing the point.

They have to update their rendering engine to support DirectX AND OpenGL. The source engine is hardcoded to use DirectX. They would've (and have) done major source code editing to achieve cross-platform compatibility.

This isn't something "just to appease the mac users." This is a technical investment in a technology that will be the basis of their games for years to come.

They probably said, "well why don't we update CS while we're at it"?
EA wouldn't be caught dead doing this for free.Thats more or less my view on the subject.

[Kand]

Bad Company 2 would rank better if Steam included those who own the retail game and didnt buy it from steam. :D

[ThatWhiteGuy]

Just to make myself perfectly clear in relation to that post, Nacimota: I fully support the idea to broaden the compatibility.

HOWEVER! At the cost of lower range computers not being able to use CSS? At the cost of a large chunk of console commands dissapearing? Gameplay being ruined by cheap effects and additions? Communities being ruined by unessasary bumph?

I'd gladly sacrafise a bit of compatibility. Especially with Macs.

Edit::

@Kand Dude, not the time or the place to start that f@nb0y war. Im cereal :P

2nd Edit::

F@nb0y is censored. Haha.

[Hobo Joe]

HOWEVER! At the cost of lower range computers not being able to use CSS? At the cost of a large chunk of console commands dissapearing? Gameplay being ruined by cheap effects and additions? Communities being ruined by unessasary bumph?



What part of engine upgrade says lower performance to you? Also, nothing in this update has changed gameplay, certainly not 'cheap effects and additions'. And the BETA just came out yesterday, stop making apocalyptic prediction as to the state of CSS communities. I'm guessing most won't even suffer the slightest blip. And with improved netcode, the comp community should improve.

Most people are getting better performance with this update, myself included.

[ThatWhiteGuy]

What part of engine upgrade says lower performance to you? Also, nothing in this update has changed gameplay, certainly not 'cheap effects and additions'. And the BETA just came out yesterday, stop making apocalyptic prediction as to the state of CSS communities. I'm guessing most won't even suffer the slightest blip. And with improved netcode, the comp community should improve.

Most people are getting better performance with this update, myself included.

The forums say otherwise.


I could just leave it at that but I'll explain. There have been many posts saying how the new engine is removing some people's abilities to play effectively with their rig. The new crap they're adding doesnt really do much but get in the way. And as the way of communities splitting? I refer you to the statement I just made: The forums say otherwise.

Its L4D all over again. :P

[PatPeter]

If this is all you have to contribute, then don't.

In fact, he should contribute more.

You're all completely missing the point.

They have to update their rendering engine to support DirectX AND OpenGL. The source engine is hardcoded to use DirectX. They would've (and have) done major source code editing to achieve cross-platform compatibility.

This isn't something "just to appease the mac users." This is a technical investment in a technology that will be the basis of their games for years to come.

They probably said, "well why don't we update CS while we're at it"?
EA wouldn't be caught dead doing this for free.

Good! I wish it were EA, then I would have the OPTION of buying the upgrade or staying.

[Ghos7Soldier]

If you're going to be a ♥♥♥♥ and flame anyone who voices an opinion on here, or cannot be bothered to form a stable arguement: I suggest you ♥♥♥♥ right off back to MW2 or TF2 and let the people who love CSS discuss its future.

Well, now I know not to take you serious after you having of said this.

:D