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View Full Version : Steam = invasive and aggravating game control


BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 06:05 PM
It used to be that I bought a new game, came home and installed it using only the CD key, no internet connection required, and was then playing the game within 30 minutes. Then I encountered Steam......

Many issues, lets begin.

Problem 1: Compulsory updates immediately after installation
These have caused me hours of delay before I can play my game and force me to have an internet connection upon installation, otherwise the game cannot be played. If you happen to be on a fixed usage plan (as I am) this can cost you $ as well, especially when Steam decides to download the entire game when you already have it on disc.
Solution: Give people the option to update manually, as in the days of yore. Also, change it so that patches are downloaded without concurrent installation so that people can keep playing their games instead of waiting hours. Install ONLY after user verification.

Problem 2: Steam account linkage to games
Ridiculous. People do not pay for some "license", they pay for the game. Unacceptable. What happens if Steam goes under? A rant on the topic by another malcontent: http://www.digitalruin.net/node/55
Solution: Remove this bull♥♥♥♥. Make Steam an optional download for those who desire it's services.

Problem 3 (a lead-on from 2): A banned or hacked Steam account results in all linked games becoming unplayable
Completely unacceptable. Why are games not playable except through Steam? Steam should be game MANAGEMENT software, not game CONTROLLING software. This control freak attitude will result in increased piracy.
Solution: Get over yourselves and stop trying to control every aspect of my gaming life.

Problem 4: Steam has become so integrated in some games that they are sold incomplete on disc and can only be completed via Steam
Unacceptable and offensive. We pay for the game, not part of it.
Solution: Give me what I payed for. Also, please avoid responding to this point with something like "What you get is made abundantly clear in the license agreement. If you don't like it don't buy it". That sort of answer will result in a kind of compliance you will not like.


I pay to play, not to deal with anti-piracy bull♥♥♥♥. Hopefully someone in management will take heed of my concerns so that changes can be made (though I hold almost zero hope of that). The customer is not powerless in this digital age and need not depend on the whims of corporations; other solutions can be found if satisfaction is not met.

A quote comes to mind: "And in acting with fear they brought about that which they feared". Rather appropriate isn't it?

Konork
06-12-2010, 07:01 PM
Problem 1: Compulsory updates immediately after installation

For single player, I don't think updates should be required, but if you don't update a multiplayer game, you probably wouldn't be able to play it because the servers are updated

Problem 2: Steam account linkage to games

If you read any one of those agreement things people rarely read, they all say that you have purchased a license to play the game, not the game itself. Also, if Valve, currently one of the most well respected gaming companies, goes out of business, there are probably far bigger problems in the industry than people not being able to play their games

Problem 3 (a lead-on from 2): A banned or hacked Steam account results in all linked games becoming unplayable

VAC bans DON'T disable the entire account, hacked accounts are only disabled to prevent the hacker from doing much, and most other methods of getting your account disable involve things like credit card chargebacks, which most people don't have a reason to do in the first place

Problem 4: Steam has become so integrated in some games that they are sold incomplete on disc and can only be completed via Steam

What games are you talking about? They can't roll all updates onto the discs after the discs have shipped. If there's some other game, check if Valve had anything to do with publishing it before blaming them

L.o.D.
06-12-2010, 08:12 PM
Problem 1: Compulsory updates immediately after installation
These have caused me hours of delay before I can play my game and force me to have an internet connection upon installation, otherwise the game cannot be played. If you happen to be on a fixed usage plan (as I am) this can cost you $ as well, especially when Steam decides to download the entire game when you already have it on disc.
Solution: Give people the option to update manually, as in the days of yore. Also, change it so that patches are downloaded without concurrent installation so that people can keep playing their games instead of waiting hours. Install ONLY after user verification.


You see, after a game cd is stamped, the game's developers have released updates making the cd outdated which is why you download when you install the game.
There is an option to not update said game but it won't work for MP games as you will not be able to join any servers due to your version not matching the server's.


Problem 2: Steam account linkage to games
Ridiculous. People do not pay for some "license", they pay for the game. Unacceptable. Make Steam an optional download for those who desire it's services.

Try reading the agreement for once. You ARE paying for a license to use said software.


Problem 3 (a lead-on from 2): A banned or hacked Steam account results in all linked games becoming unplayable
Completely unacceptable. Why are games not playable except through Steam? Steam should be game MANAGEMENT software, not game CONTROLLING software. This control freak attitude will result in increased piracy.
Solution: Get over yourselves and stop trying to control every aspect of my gaming life.

Don't allow your account to get stolen in the first place & you will never have to worry about that ever happening.
Also, that is not true. Even if there is a ban on the account, it does NOT effect all games that are on said account.
VAC bans by engine version & does not affect SP games.
BTW, stolen accounts can be reclaimed.

Problem 4: Steam has become so integrated in some games that they are sold incomplete on disc and can only be completed via Steam
Unacceptable and offensive. We pay for the game, not part of it.
Solution: Give me what I payed for. Also, please avoid responding to this point with something like "What you get is made abundantly clear in the license agreement. If you don't like it don't buy it". That sort of answer will result in a kind of compliance you will not like.

Buying a game & only having "part"of it has been happening since games came out on disc. It is not possible nor feasible to re-stamp updated cds every time a game is updated, hence the reason/need to download after installation.


I pay to play, not to deal with anti-piracy bull♥♥♥♥. Hopefully someone in management will take heed of my concerns so that changes can be made (though I hold almost zero hope of that). The customer is not powerless in this digital age and need not depend on the whims of corporations; other solutions can be found if satisfaction is not met.

Too bad. You will have to continue to deal with it until piracy goes away or you stop buying games.
Management will not change any of the points you have made.

BTW, there's 25+ million accounts on steam with 2+ million users, which is still increasing, especially now with the mac games added.
Steam is now the largest gaming platform.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:22 PM
For single player, I don't think updates should be required, but if you don't update a multiplayer game, you probably wouldn't be able to play it because the servers are updated
That's fine with me. The point is it should be optional.

If you read any one of those agreement things people rarely read, they all say that you have purchased a license to play the game, not the game itself.
Ridiculous. People do not pay for some "license", they pay for the game. Unacceptable.
Also, please avoid responding to this point with something like "What you get is made abundantly clear in the license agreement. If you don't like it don't buy it". That sort of answer will result in a kind of compliance you will not like.

Also, if Valve, currently one of the most well respected gaming companies, goes out of business, there are probably far bigger problems in the industry than people not being able to play their games
All things die. I shouldn't have to care if Valve goes under, my games should work regardless.

VAC bans DON'T disable the entire account
Could you elaborate on that for me?

What games are you talking about? They can't roll all updates onto the discs after the discs have shipped. If there's some other game, check if Valve had anything to do with publishing it before blaming them
I'm not talking about updates but actual pieces of the base game. It's something I heard about from someone in another rage thread I posted.

L.o.D.
06-12-2010, 08:31 PM
That's fine with me. The point is it should be optional.

It cannot be made optional for multiplayer games. If your game is outdated & you try to join an updated server, you won't be connecting to the server due to incompatibility.
This goes for all MP games.



All things die. I shouldn't have to care if Valve goes under, my games should work regardless.

Software cannot die. It is not a living being and as I stated before, more & more people are joining.


Could you elaborate on that for me?

VAC bans only affect the game engine that the ban occurred on.
Say you were banned on cs1.6. You would still be able to freely play CSS or MW2.
if you were banned on MW2, you can play any other game that you have on said account.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:34 PM
You see, after a game cd is stamped, the game's developers have released updates making the cd outdated which is why you download when you install the game.
There is an option to not update said game but it won't work for MP games as you will not be able to join any servers due to your version not matching the server's.
Updates immediately after installation are compulsory. You apparently can disable further updates afterwards, but the initial update is compulsory. It took me 3 hours to apply it for FEAR 2. I don't care about multiplayer and neither do many others which is why it should be optional, among other reasons I listed.

Try reading the agreement for once. You ARE paying for a license to use said software.
I've responded to this.

Don't allow your account to get stolen in the first place & you will never have to worry about that ever happening.
I shouldn't have to worry about it PERIOD.

Also, that is not true. Even if there is a ban on the account, it does NOT effect all games that are on said account.
VAC bans by engine version & does not affect SP games.
BTW, stolen accounts can be reclaimed.
Good to know, cheers.

Buying a game & only having "part"of it has been happening since games came out on disc. It is not possible nor feasible to re-stamp updated cds every time a game is updated, hence the reason/need to download after installation.
If the base game is included in it's entirety on the disc then it can be played without need of update (ignoring rare critical glitches).

Too bad. You will have to continue to deal with it until piracy goes away or you stop buying games.
Management will not change any of the points you have made.
As I thought. Or you stop buying games - Precisely.

BTW, there's 25+ million accounts on steam with 2+ million users, which is still increasing, especially now with the mac games added.
Steam is now the largest gaming platform.
Good for Steam. Too bad those of us who neither want or need it are also included in those stats.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:39 PM
It cannot be made optional for multiplayer games. If your game is outdated & you try to join an updated server, you won't be connecting to the server due to incompatibility.
This goes for all MP games.
Those of us who don't care shouldn't have to update. Also, both those of us who MP and those who don't should be able to update separately to installation so that we can play our games as we wait.

Software cannot die. It is not a living being and as I stated before, more & more people are joining.
Companies can and so can their service. Popularity now does not equal popularity in the future.

VAC bans only affect the game engine that the ban occurred on.
Say you were banned on cs1.6. You would still be able to freely play CSS or MW2.
if you were banned on MW2, you can play any other game that you have on said account.
That's some good news at least, cheers.

L.o.D.
06-12-2010, 08:44 PM
You need to double check your quoting as you are quoting me in your last 2 posts, not Konork.

Scared
06-12-2010, 08:49 PM
We pay for the game, not part of it.

You pay for the game (licence) and you get everything you need. Most of the data is contained on the disc with the rest (only a small part of it) on the Steam servers which is given to you as soon as the game is installed. You are not being robbed of part of the game, you just get it via a different method.

It is to help stop piracy. Most piracy occurs by taking the game disc and upload it to the internet...but if the whole game isn't on the disc then the pirates can't play the game.

MW2 was on the internet a week before it was released but no one could do anything since VALVe had the rest of the data on their servers (which they wont release till the game is officially released) which stopped the zero day piracy (piracy before the release).

You can say "back in the day we did this" all you want, but back in the day we used to fight each other with rocks tied to the end of a stick. Everything moves forward and software is moving forward now. A lot of the things that are happening today have been in the user agreement for a long time but no one has been able to enforce it until recently.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:52 PM
You need to double check your quoting as you are quoting me in your last 2 posts, not Konork.
Sorry about that, copy-paste error.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:58 PM
You pay for the game (licence) and you get everything you need. Most of the data is contained on the disc with the rest (only a small part of it) on the Steam servers which is given to you as soon as the game is installed. You are not being robbed of part of the game, you just get it via a different method.

It is to help stop piracy. Most piracy occurs by taking the game disc and upload it to the internet...but if the whole game isn't on the disc then the pirates can't play the game.

MW2 was on the internet a week before it was released but no one could do anything since VALVe had the rest of the data on their servers (which they wont release till the game is officially released) which stopped the zero day piracy (piracy before the release).

You can say "back in the day we did this" all you want, but back in the day we used to fight each other with rocks tied to the end of a stick. Everything moves forward and software is moving forward now. A lot of the things that are happening today have been in the user agreement for a long time but no one has been able to enforce it until recently.

I don't oppose progress, I oppose DRM bull♥♥♥♥. I don't care for enforced updates which take hours and I don't care for games which are dependent on some secondary service for their operation, especially when that service may screw up.

BenEvolent
06-12-2010, 08:59 PM
The game industry seems to be moving in the same direction as the music industry is in regards to controlling piracy. We've all seen how effective that turned out to be.....

CannibalBob
06-13-2010, 02:32 AM
Welcome to digital distribution, my friend :D

If you've played games as much as I have, you'll realize that the pains of Steam far make up for the pains of physical disks, game stores, and more.

If you miss the physical games, well, there's no reason why you can't buy some blank DVDs, DVD cases, a Lightscribe DVD writer and a good printer for covers.


Oh and to address one thing:

Ridiculous. People do not pay for some "license", they pay for the game. Unacceptable. What happens if Steam goes under? A rant on the topic by another malcontent: http://www.digitalruin.net/node/55
Sorry but you do and always have paid for the license. Getting the physical disk that you can freely give away was just a side-effect of technology not offering a suitable way to distribute the game by any other way.
Think of it this way - if you actually owned the game, then you'd be allowed to copy it and sell it as many times as you like.

Forsythia
06-13-2010, 03:37 AM
Seriously, if you hate Steam that much, why do you even use it? Steam simply isn't for you, get over it. Your previous thread was closed by your own request, why start another when you know you're just going to get the same responses?

Yes, some retail games require you to install Steam nowadays. It stinks for people who don't want to use Steam, but that's just how it is. Should I whine at the Sony forums for not being able to play Heavy Rain on my Xbox 360?

Seth.Sekhmet
06-13-2010, 04:19 AM
HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

Dude, the very reasons you list for hating steam is why I like it so much !

Are you kidding me ? Free updates ? YES !
One account for all my steam games ? YES !
Cheaters discouraged to... cheat ? YES !
at point 4 you lost me, but it's about updates again. IT's not valve's fault that some games end up with patches only days after release.

All I can say is that you and steam are incompatible. Because what you dislike is what makes steam great and it's not gonna change anytime soon.

cheeseus
06-13-2010, 09:37 AM
If you get VAC banned you still can play those games on servers that don't have VAC enabled.

But I agree that singleplayer game updates should be optional but I'm not sure if Valve decides that or is it the publisher of the game.

Matt
06-13-2010, 09:46 AM
We went through this once before. Don't re-post closed topics.