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totallylost
07-05-2010, 07:26 PM
If you want to purchase Bioshock 2 are you forced to sign up with Windows Live? I have no interest in having them on or in my computer.

Death31133
07-05-2010, 07:53 PM
You can create an offline profile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLMr4tPV9Hc

MovieMan999
07-05-2010, 09:23 PM
If you want to purchase Bioshock 2 are you forced to sign up with Windows Live? I have no interest in having them on or in my computer.

Yes, whether it's an offline profile or online, you have to have GFWL installed and you have to sign in during gameplay, otherwise you will not be able to save throughout the game.

In return, GFWL gives you...oh...nothing. Seems like a great deal, doesn't it?

Rogersdead
07-06-2010, 02:56 AM
Yes, whether it's an offline profile or online, you have to have GFWL installed

Just like Steam then.

and you have to sign in during gameplay, otherwise you will not be able to save throughout the game.

Lies.

In return, GFWL gives you...oh...nothing. Seems like a great deal, doesn't it?

You get the same as you do with steam, give or take a few features.

Nekomancer
07-06-2010, 02:57 AM
It's not a lie, you need at least an offline profile to be able to save a game. That has been always like that in any Games for Windows LIVE! game.

BritishGaMer
07-06-2010, 03:00 AM
If you want to purchase Bioshock 2 are you forced to sign up with Windows Live? I have no interest in having them on or in my computer.

Install windows client but like others have said you can play your game in offline mode. NO need to be connected to internet un less your interested in dumb points from windows live. ;)

1 other thing YES you need windows client to be able to save progress in game. even in offline mode.

velvetmeds
07-06-2010, 03:53 AM
having windows live on the pc is as bad as having bioshock 2 in it

*flame shield*

Europhoria
07-06-2010, 05:01 AM
having windows live on the pc is as bad as having bioshock 2 in it

*flame shield*

I hope your flameshield isn't made of asbestos.

Combii
07-06-2010, 05:03 AM
I hate live! :mad:

Rogersdead
07-06-2010, 06:10 AM
It's not a lie, you need at least an offline profile to be able to save a game. That has been always like that in any Games for Windows LIVE! game.

He said you have to sign in to GFWL to save a game. How can you sign in when offline?
Infact you never even have to go online atall to play any GFWL game, and they will all save just fine in offline mode. Steam requires an internet connection to start with.

Dreadjaws
07-06-2010, 06:15 AM
having windows live on the pc is as bad as having bioshock 2 in it

*flame shield*

A flame shield won't be enough to protect you from an atomic death ray from space!

Also, I was perfectly able to play Batman: Arkham Asylum without ever installing the Windows Live client, but then I decided to make an online account (yeah, I know, I was just curious), which then forced me to install the client and forever use that account to login into the game (and erased my previous savegames too:o).

Point is, you can play Live games without Live (at least B:AA), but once you start using it, you can't quit.

MADDOGGE
07-06-2010, 06:17 AM
Oh for heavens sake if you want the game, Live is required. Deal with it, pos program that it is. So either suck it up or don't buy the game. Those are you choices.

Temar
07-06-2010, 06:53 AM
Oh for heavens sake if you want the game, Live is required. Deal with it, pos program that it is. So either suck it up or don't buy the game. Those are you choices.

Do you suck everything up what they throw at you?

If you don't like these posts, don't read them. Complaining AND not buying the game is the right move here. Where does all this account madness lead to? If we do not stop that now, you will have to register more and more accounts just to play one game.

Soon we will need 4 accounts:

Steam Account
Developer Studio Account (i.e. Bioware Community)
Publisher Account (i.e. EA Online)
GFWL


One Steam account should be enough! If we don't stop that now, sooner or later these accounts will be required to play. So if only one instance fails, you can not play the game at all.

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 07:10 AM
Soon we will need 4 accounts:

Steam Account
Developer Studio Account (i.e. Bioware Community)
Publisher Account (i.e. EA Online)
GFWL


You surely are lucky person if you don't seriously need more accounts.

Temar
07-06-2010, 07:40 AM
You surely are lucky person if you don't seriously need more accounts.

To play a single game? That has nothing to do with luck. Just don't buy the crap.

I didn't buy Bioshock 2 because of GFWL and the SecuROM DRM. I don't care if I have unlimited activations or if I can use GFWL in offline mode. This has to stop now. Steam is DRM enough.

After all I am a paying customer and I don't like to be treated like a criminal. I don't want to authenticate to multiple services just to proof that I did not pirate the game. And I don't like messing with activations/revocations. That's not the kind of service I expect as a paying customer. If they want authentication they can use Steam, that should be enough.

Rogersdead
07-06-2010, 07:46 AM
I didn't buy Bioshock 2 because of GFWL and the SecuROM DRM. I don't care if I have unlimited activations or if I can use GFWL in offline mode. This has to stop now. Steam is DRM enough.



So Steam is the king DRM and everyone should just use that? What if someone wants to just use GFWL and NOT steam? Can one choose to play Modern Warfare 2 with the DRM of choice? No they have to use Steam like it or not.
Saying that the other services must stop because you don't like them is a bit, well...fanboish :)

R~S
07-06-2010, 07:48 AM
C'mon people, it's only something for when you play the game....

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 07:55 AM
I didn't buy Bioshock 2 because of GFWL and the SecuROM DRM. I don't care if I have unlimited activations or if I can use GFWL in offline mode. This has to stop now. Steam is DRM enough.

Blizzard isn't going to stop developing their Battle.net.
EA isn't going to stop developing their EA Store.
Microsoft isn't going to stop developing their GFWL.
And I don't see why CD Projekt must go out of business.

No matter how much you wanted it.

Temar
07-06-2010, 07:56 AM
So Steam is the king DRM and everyone should just use that? What if someone wants to just use GFWL and NOT steam? Can one choose to play Modern Warfare 2 with the DRM of choice? No they have to use Steam like it or not.
Saying that the other services must stop because you don't like them is a bit, well...fanboish :)

I didn't say they should all use Steam. If you read my other posts, you will probably see that I'm not a Steam fanboi. In fact I don't like Steam-DRM either, but I accept that the publishers want some kind of DRM for their games. So I'm willing to accept Steam as Steam is not only a simple DRM but also offers a good service for their customers.

I don't mind if the publishers offer their game on GFWL with the GFWL-DRM. They can use any DRM they want, but I won't buy it, as long as I need MULTIPLE accounts. I expect that the Steam version uses Steam-DRM. I wouldn't tolerate it either if I would buy the GFWL-Version and it would require a Steam-Account.

AltairITA
07-06-2010, 08:00 AM
C'mon people, it's only something for when you play the game....

with you .

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:00 AM
Blizzard isn't going to stop developing their Battle.net.
EA isn't going to stop developing their EA Store.
Microsoft isn't going to stop developing their GFWL.

No matter how much you wanted it.

I don't ask them to stop that. I just don't want to be required to register. If I ever buy a game on the EA Store, I expect that an EA Store account is enough to play it. They can make all the other accounts optional. I don't mind that at all.

R~S
07-06-2010, 08:02 AM
I don't ask them to stop that. I just don't want to be required to register. If I ever buy a game on the EA Store, I expect that an EA Store account is enough to play it. They can make all the other accounts optional. I don't mind that at all.Pretty much means you should keep to retail games then, since neither valve will stop using steam for it's digital distribution platform and the publishers with their drm features...

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 08:02 AM
I don't ask them to stop that. I just don't want to be required to register. If I ever buy a game on the EA Store, I expect that an EA Store account is enough to play it. They can make all the other accounts optional. I don't mind that at all.

And what about CD Projekt?

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:06 AM
Pretty much means you should keep to retail games then, since neither valve will stop using steam for it's digital distribution platform and the publishers with their drm features...

There are plenty of games out there with no additional DRM. As I said, I accept ONE kind of DRM. So if they use Steam-DRM for games sold on Steam, that is OK.

Moreover often the additional DRM gets removed after a while. As soon as it is removed, I don't mind buying the game.

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:08 AM
And what about CD Projekt?

Never heard of them. But in case it is something like Steam/GFWL/D2D/Impulse: They should just use the CD-Project-DRM then.

It's really not that hard to switch the DRM of a game. Especially if they expect thousands of sales. It's not like they have to rework the whole game - just the authentication mechanism is different.

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 08:12 AM
Never heard of them. But in case it is something like Steam/GFWL/D2D/Impulse: They should just use the CD-Project-DRM then.

It's really not that hard to switch the DRM of a game. Especially if they expect thousands of sales. It's not like they have to rework the whole game - just the authentication mechanism is different.

LOL!
CD Projekt is owner of Good Old Games. And publisher of The Witcher (only Poland).

So you think that there is only one good copy protection and it's Steam DRM. Starforce? Disc check? Safedisc? Tages?

Edit: I know that Disc check isn't actually a CP, but it still checks if you have disc in the drive or not.
Edit2: CD Projekt RED (part of CD Projekt) developed The Witcher.

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:16 AM
LOL!
CD Projekt is owner of Good Old Games.


Still never heard of them. But as long as they just require one account per game, it is ok.


So you think that there is only one good copy protection and it's Steam DRM.


No, never said that. Please actually read my post from above and please refrain from quoting out of context.


Starforce? Disc check? Safedisc?

I don't like em and I don't buy them. It's that easy. I don't like DRM which messes with your system files.

R~S
07-06-2010, 08:17 AM
Overall, it's like saying you don't want police in your city because you yourself don't commit any crimes. Just imagine your city without them.

I'm all for drm as long as they only run when in-game... it's not like they have an impact on your gameplay (unless it's the "always online" one, that one sucks).

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 08:23 AM
Still never heard of them. But as long as they just require one account per game, it is ok.

The makers of The Witcher and you haven't heard of them...
Only account you need is to access their store and your account at GOG website.
Games are DRM free and they don't require any kind of login.

I don't like em and I don't buy them. It's that easy. I don't like DRM which messes with your system files.

You have missed many good games then. Safedisc and Starforce have been used in many games. Not to mention that disc check is in almost every retail game out there.

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:27 AM
Overall, it's like saying you don't want police in your city because you yourself don't commit any crimes. Just imagine your city without them.


No, it's like saying I don't want the police AND the military AND the national guard in my town. I don't mind ONE instance, so the police on its own is ok.


I'm all for drm as long as they only run when in-game... it's not like they have an impact on your gameplay (unless it's the "always online" one, that one sucks).

It's less about effecting the game play, but more about how they treat you as a paying customer. They don't need 20 different DRMs per game to prevent piracy. The gaming experience you get as a paying customer gets worse every year because you have to mess around with more and more registrations/activations/revocations. On the other hand pirates just download a game and start playing. So as a paying customer I expect to have a better gaming experience than someone who did not pay anything.

It's really that simple.

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:30 AM
You have missed many good games then. Safedisc and Starforce have been used in many games.


Yeah, I'm sure of that. But one has to draw the line somewhere and take a stand. I don't like being f****d by the industry.



Not to mention that disc check is in almost every retail game out there.

Guess that's why I'm buying Steam games and not retail games ;)

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 08:36 AM
Guess that's why I'm buying Steam games and not retail games ;)

You can't get every game from Steam, you know.

Can you get Blur from Steam? No.
Can you get Starcraft 2 from Steam? No. Never.

Temar
07-06-2010, 08:41 AM
You can't get every game from Steam, you know.


I don't need to. I don't mind using another service to buy a game - as long as I don't need multiple accounts to play it.


Can you get Blur from Steam? No.
Can you get Starcraft 2 from Steam? No. Never.

Never played them, never missed them. I do not need to own every game out there.

velvetmeds
07-06-2010, 08:54 AM
steam drm good? lol

no such thing as good drm.

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 09:02 AM
I do not need to own every game out there.

Who said you need to? Point is that you miss many very good games because of your hate.

Temar
07-06-2010, 09:11 AM
Who said you need to? Point is that you miss many very good games because of your hate.

Well, I would not call it hate. As I said, I can accept ONE kind of DRM per game. Overall, I just expect a better gaming experience than someone has, who pirates the game. If you want to call that hate - so be it.

And I don't mind missing some very good games. There are plenty of good games out there.

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 09:24 AM
I can accept ONE kind of DRM per game.

Because you only use Steam... There is your problem. You already have that one DRM. You don't like those other DRMs because Steam is enough for you.

Edit: Why am I even doing this? Is he/she trolling? Quite possibly. You are probably one of those who uses same password for many places.

JBBooks
07-06-2010, 09:37 AM
Also, I was perfectly able to play Batman: Arkham Asylum without ever installing the Windows Live client, but then I decided to make an online account (yeah, I know, I was just curious), which then forced me to install the client and forever use that account to login into the game (and erased my previous savegames too:o).


I'm not too sure about that. With Fallout3, I was forced to use GFWL to get the game update, but I then played without logging in. The curiosity factor got the better of me, and I logged into GFWL after being well into the game. NO SAVE GAMES!!!1!!11 Or so I thought.... GFWL used a different folder for them. I signed back out, restarted Fallout3, and SHAZAM! savegames were back! And I was able to play without ever going into GFWL again (until Bishock2)

Temar
07-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Because you only use Steam... There is your problem. You already have that one DRM.


Yes, I already have that one DRM. And that should be enough to prove that I did not pirate the game. With Steam you get DRM (you have to accept any kind of DRM), but you also get a good service. Using Steam, I actually have a better gaming experience than someone who priated the game. That's the point here.

I don't mind buying from other digital distributers like GFWL/D2D/Impulse/etc. But they have to offer me the same level of service. Steam is pretty much click & play and runs very stable on my system. So Steam is my prefered plattform. However this might change any day if another company offers me a better service.



You don't like those other DRMs because Steam is enough for you.

No, I don't like additional DRM because I have to spend MY time to mess with registrations/activations/revocations. It's not my job to do this and it is not necessary to prove that I bought the game.

Don't you see that DRM is one of the reasons why PC gaming is going down? People like me don't want to mess around with all this DRM crap - I just want to play. The more DRM they implement, the more people will switch to consoles. I love PC gaming because the games are not dumbed down, like the console ones. But I'm not willing to pay any price.

Temar
07-06-2010, 09:49 AM
Edit: Why am I even doing this? Is he/she trolling? Quite possibly. You are probably one of those who uses same password for many places.

You are accusing me of trolling, but you can't offer some pro-DRM arguments. Instead of standing up for your rights as a paying customer, you just accept everything they throw at you. In my opinion this is weak.

Darkstar83
07-06-2010, 11:58 PM
It's just that I don't think "publisher thinks that I'm a bloody pirate!" when I play Bioshock 2. I've paid for these games and I don't have any troubles playing these games.

Kran De Loy
07-07-2010, 02:57 AM
All that I give a ♥♥♥♥ about is that the DRM from GFWL is ♥♥♥♥ing up my Bioshock2. I end the GFWL process before he can finish loading and I can play Bioshock2 without it crashing. But I can't save the game.

Whenever GWFL loads Bioshock2 will crash, so I got the game disc from a friend I tried to install by disc. It doesn't use the Steam program at all, only GFWL. But somehow I still get the exact same crashing bug as if I DL'd it from Steam...

Darkstar83
07-07-2010, 03:09 AM
All that I give a ♥♥♥♥ about is that the DRM from GFWL is ♥♥♥♥ing up my Bioshock2. I end the GFWL process before he can finish loading and I can play Bioshock2 without it crashing. But I can't save the game.

Whenever GWFL loads Bioshock2 will crash, so I got the game disc from a friend I tried to install by disc. It doesn't use the Steam program at all, only GFWL. But somehow I still get the exact same crashing bug as if I DL'd it from Steam...

If it gives you some info, for example error code, just go and google it. I think that there is something wrong in your computer. Probably messed up Windows installation or registry.

tmk
07-07-2010, 06:54 AM
...and no one mentioned about the patches. If you want to download the patch for Bioshock 2, you need an online GFWL account but if you are in the unsupported xbox live region, you need to register with one of the supported countries but remember - if you do that, you will never get a support from GFWL/xbox live so the choice is yours.
And remember one thing - you can lost your savegames if you change you offline account to online and you will have to start the game again.

JarHed
07-13-2010, 02:49 PM
I loaded Bioshock2 and the patch. I didn't know it was a Windows Live game. Have another that I never had a problem with. As soon as I start the game, the windows live screen comes up. I go to log in press login and I get a windows error message that Bioshock has stopped working. I never get through the windows live login. Anyone have any idea what the problem is? I've got vista but never had a problem with a steam game before. It's disappointing when you want to go play a game you've just bought and it doesn't work. Question is, what now??????

godflesh
07-17-2010, 05:24 PM
Oh for heavens sake if you want the game, Live is required. Deal with it, pos program that it is. So either suck it up or don't buy the game. Those are you choices.

Agreed. I did it. It's nothing bad, just takes a while to load upon start up.

RadioactiveJade
07-17-2010, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by MovieMan999
and you have to sign in during gameplay, otherwise you will not be able to save throughout the game.

Lies.

Rogersdead, what in the world are you talking about?? You can't save unless you're signed in to Live. The SAVE button is literally unclickable. What "lies"?

SmileyBarry
07-18-2010, 05:13 PM
I think there IS a way to avoid GFWL. GFWL is "unsupported" in my country (but I registered a US account and got it through Steam. Woohoo!), and I just noticed all of the retail copies of BioShock 2 that I saw in-stores don't have the "LIVE" part, just "Games for Windows". That would mean that copy has no LIVE features (no key), and thus maybe it's not, erm, "enhanced" with GFWL.

Darkstar83
07-19-2010, 01:40 AM
I think there IS a way to avoid GFWL. GFWL is "unsupported" in my country (but I registered a US account and got it through Steam. Woohoo!), and I just noticed all of the retail copies of BioShock 2 that I saw in-stores don't have the "LIVE" part, just "Games for Windows". That would mean that copy has no LIVE features (no key), and thus maybe it's not, erm, "enhanced" with GFWL.

When you guys learn that Games For Windows and Games For Windows - Live are different things?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows_-_Live

SmileyBarry
07-19-2010, 05:20 AM
When you guys learn that Games For Windows and Games For Windows - Live are different things?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows_-_Live

They are different. GFW games have no LIVE component, while GFWL (obviously) use LIVE and sometimes require it. I guarantee you every GFW games you'll find will not have the "Games for Windows - LIVE" system, while every GFWL will have it.

Darkstar83
07-19-2010, 05:45 AM
They are different. GFW games have no LIVE component, while GFWL (obviously) use LIVE and sometimes require it. I guarantee you every GFW games you'll find will not have the "Games for Windows - LIVE" system, while every GFWL will have it.

No!
Games For Windows is brand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand

Games For Windows Live is service/program.

Batman: AA uses GFWL, Street Fighter IV uses GFWL, Flatout: UC uses GFWL, Bioshock 2 uses GFWL...

You probably meant that not every Games For Windows game uses GFWL.

SmileyBarry
07-19-2010, 06:10 AM
No!
Games For Windows is brand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand

Games For Windows Live is service/program.

Batman: AA uses GFWL, Street Fighter IV uses GFWL, Flatout: UC uses GFWL, Bioshock 2 uses GFWL...

You probably meant that not every Games For Windows game uses GFWL.

That's exactly what I said. I kind-of tripped all over myself because of their similarity in names (and the fact the two are similar in name).

But my point is this: If BioShock 2 requires GFWL to actually let you play the game (no matter if online or not), you have to agree to the EULA. But if the EULA states you may not use the software if you're not in one of the supported regions, you can't play BioShock 2 without breaking the rules, thus forcing Microsoft (or 2K) to remove GFWL from versions of BioShock 2 sold outside those 20 supported regions. So it's highly probable that BioShock 2 comes only with its basic SecuROM wrapper in countries unsupported by GFWL.

CimaJackal
07-19-2010, 12:38 PM
Yes, whether it's an offline profile or online, you have to have GFWL installed and you have to sign in during gameplay, otherwise you will not be able to save throughout the game.

In return, GFWL gives you...oh...nothing. Seems like a great deal, doesn't it?

Next thing you know we'll have to pay to play games offline.