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View Full Version : PhysX = No buy. Period.


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mathesar
08-15-2010, 10:23 AM
Yes exactly. It really isn't that big of a deal. The performance hit isn't noticeable and you could argue that there isn't even one period.

Im not sure why they offer PhysX to be processed by CPU it causes a big performance hit from my testing and im running an i7 920 @ 3.36ghz

Heres one example:

Batman Arkham (All gfx settings enabled & on high, Physx on highest setting)

CPU PhysX enabled (http://ded.zenblue.net/Arkham_Physx_High_CPU.jpg)

GPU PhysX enabled (http://ded.zenblue.net/Arkham_Physx_GTX480+GTX260.jpg) (GTX 480 + GTX 260 dedicated physx card)

PhysX Disabled (http://ded.zenblue.net/Arkham_gtx480_PhysX_Disabled.jpg)

SnakeDiver
08-15-2010, 10:38 AM
You don't need an Nvidia card to use the PhysX in this game, the CPU will run it. I have an ATI card and the PhysX works just fine.

Ya but the PhysX scales depending on if it's run at the CPU or GPU.

If you have PhysX enabled on the CPU, there are a lot less particles flying around, flames look less real, water effects are lessened, etc. Game mechanics still operate though.

SnakeDiver
08-15-2010, 10:45 AM
And if you don't think PhysX is special, just watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7QMzHrD8pM).

[...]

Then there's the deformation effects from the collisions..


Did anyone else notice that the car sustained substantial damage from running over some pylons? That is NOT impressive. I hope that issue is fixed before release.


How can anyone not think that impressive?

Driving is one of the coolest aspects of Mafia 2, and PhysX makes it 10x cooler..


There are other physics engines which can do the same thing. PhysX is probably cheaper and probably faster to use though. And it would be easier to get better performance out oh the physics engine.

Carfax
08-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Did anyone else notice that the car sustained substantial damage from running over some pylons? That is NOT impressive. I hope that issue is fixed before release.

Are you blind? The car was already damaged :rolleyes:

There are other physics engines which can do the same thing. PhysX is probably cheaper and probably faster to use though. And it would be easier to get better performance out oh the physics engine.

Name them! What Physics engine accounts for tires and springs, as well as volumetric smoke all at the same time?

After burning out, notice that the tires are still smoking, due to the heat.

reactioN
08-15-2010, 12:05 PM
There are a number of fallacies in this thread, first among them being the idiotic assertion that Nvidia paid 2K to use PhysX..

Do you know how absurd that sounds? Only a deluded fool would believe that nonsense.

The truth is that 2K (and EA) licensed PhysX from Nvidia. Yes, thats right! They PAID Nvidia for the use of PhysX!

Click here for evidence (http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/ea-2k-games-license-physx-engine/).

So all of you fools hoping that PhysX dies off, continue hoping :D

And if you don't think PhysX is special, just watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7QMzHrD8pM).

Look at the dynamic smoke effects, and how it reacts to not only the car, but the turbulence created by the car spinning.

And look at how the vehicle handles, just like you'd expect of a car from that era with weak springs..

Then there's the deformation effects from the collisions..

How can anyone not think that impressive?

Driving is one of the coolest aspects of Mafia 2, and PhysX makes it 10x cooler..


You have this cloud without physx aswell idiot

also i love how it starts going into 10 fps after some seconds :D

sgtdes
08-15-2010, 12:05 PM
lol I smell a Nvidia fanboy. Any Physics engine can reproduce the same thing with some coding. Unless you're 10 years old, you'd have realized there are always multiple solutions to the same problem. Same goes with programming, and therefore physic engines.

All of that crap is just eyecandy. If i'm running away from the police while they're shooting at me, i'm not going to be admiring how my tire is still smoking. Unlike some of the graphic ♥♥♥♥♥s here, I play games for the gameplay, the story, and the general fun of it. I don't play games because it's "ooo smoky goodness!". If it looks good and has special effects, it's a plus, but I couldn't care less about it.

Finally, enabling physx basically cripples the performance of the game unless someone has a 500$+ graphic card. Funny how havok runs great on a quad core that costs around 200$ at most.

Cyph3r
08-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Uhm... I'm running an Nvidia 285m ... notice the m? I'm on a laptop and I run Mafia 2 just fine with APEX on High. As well as everything else on high.

sgtdes
08-15-2010, 12:11 PM
I love your EXCELLENT detail on your framerate. Did you even restart the game after enabling PhysX?

If a gtx 480 slows to 45 or so fps from constant 60+ fps after enabling PhysX, i doubt your 285m can run any higher, since a 285m is the same as a gts 250, which is like 6x slower than a gtx 480.

Guess what? I can run the game on max with PhysX on max too on my ati 4870! At 10 fps!

Ghastous
08-15-2010, 12:29 PM
i run my game on max setting and i get a steddy 30fps and im using a 295gtx

sgtdes
08-15-2010, 12:32 PM
ok that's great. Too bad a gtx 295 is about... 4x faster than a 285m/gts 250? Still doesn't prove how he can run the game on max with PhysX on max above 30 fps, unless he's bsing.

Carfax
08-15-2010, 01:14 PM
You have this cloud without physx aswell idiot

I know idiot, but it disappears after 3 seconds idiot, but with PhysX on, the smoke cloud is much bigger and lasts a lot longer idiot.

also i love how it starts going into 10 fps after some seconds :D

What imaginary FPS counter were you looking at?

Carfax
08-15-2010, 01:24 PM
lol I smell a Nvidia Hammer Legion Member. Any Physics engine can reproduce the same thing with some coding. Unless you're 10 years old, you'd have realized there are always multiple solutions to the same problem. Same goes with programming, and therefore physic engines.

No ♥♥♥♥.. :rolleyes: But the advantage of using PhysX is that it can run on the GPU, thus saving the CPU (which is needed to run many other things in game) from the enormous performance hit associated with running advanced physics effects.

Finally, enabling physx basically cripples the performance of the game unless someone has a 500$+ graphic card. Funny how havok runs great on a quad core that costs around 200$ at most.

Great, you're ignoring that this is an unpolished demo and that the final version will not only look better, but perform faster due to better drivers and coding.

Also, I have a dedicated GTS 250 PhysX card that cost me 130 USD (you can find even cheaper ones) that runs the PhysX on high with zero problems.

Apex high setting was meant to be run with a dedicated PhysX card..

Medium setting will run just fine on a single card however, providing it's powerful enough.

milkyjoe
08-15-2010, 01:25 PM
Since this is just the demo, the full version will most likely run better and we have only seen a small fraction of the game, there are probably alot more scenes where there is alot more physx.

n3ko
08-15-2010, 01:52 PM
And if you don't think PhysX is special, just watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7QMzHrD8pM).
lol nice frame skip with lots of smoke.

no thanks. physx is a gimmick.

Carfax
08-15-2010, 03:07 PM
lol nice frame skip with lots of smoke.

no thanks. physx is a gimmick.

This is just an unpolished demo. The final version will perform much better, and look better as well.

Here's a purported picture of the final version of the PS3 DLC (http://a.imageshack.us/img39/3833/mafia2.png).

The graphics look much sharper than even the PC demo version, and keep in mind that the PS3 demo was the worst of all the versions when it came to image quality and performance.

TheOD
08-15-2010, 05:20 PM
You can run PhysX on the CPU if you disable Apex clothing (or just leave the Apex clothes for Vito on but remove it for all the pedestrians which you wouldn't really notice anyway).
Well actually, Apex clothing runs on the CPU even with hardware PhysX set to on, that's the main problem with performances.

Oh, and PhysX on medium, there isn't much of a noticeable difference between medium and high other the number of particles and the frame loss from high.

But yeah, they could have reproduced most of those effects through other means, the Apex technology was what was hyped the most (realistic clothes movements and such) but right now it kills the frames even if you have a powerful NVidia card since it's not even running on the GPU.

Scared
08-15-2010, 06:57 PM
Any Physics engine can reproduce the same thing with some coding

Yea, just spend an afternoon of coding and you can have yourself a nice physics engine....

.......I am trying really hard not to laugh right now.

sgtdes
08-16-2010, 06:41 PM
you must be trying really hard not to seem like an idiot. Did I say anything about an afternoon of coding? I'm talking about additions to a pre-existing engine such as havok. L2read.

Gabkicks
08-17-2010, 02:59 AM
i had a 9600gt hanging around and i slapped it in to assist my 5850, and now my average framerates while running physx on high have more than doubled. I just ordered a used gts 250 for $65 shipped to see if that gives me a nice boost in framerates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcgF_htfUO4

Coolspyboy
08-17-2010, 03:19 AM
Am I the only nVidia card owner who doesn't really care whether or not PhysX is enabled? >_>

SoulThief
08-19-2010, 06:31 AM
you must be trying really hard not to seem like an idiot. Did I say anything about an afternoon of coding? I'm talking about additions to a pre-existing engine such as havok. L2read.

Havok can't touch PhysX in form of real physics simulation, just because things 'bounce' on the floor and stuff doesn't mean that it can do the same as PhysX.
I've never seen debris staying on the floor in a Havoc game, do mind to that PhysX was meant as a mass physics engine where hundreds maybe even thousands of object could be manipulated in real time, without performance issues with the addon-accelerator card.

If it could so the same, I see no reason why developers would want to buy a PhysX license and eliminate a large portion of their user base if they could go with a variant that is available for all to enjoy without hardware requirements.

Secondly Havok does not support GPU acceleration, the project that was planned for it is canned and discontinued.
So yes it would require a long time before Havok reaches the same features and level of realism as PhysX, the engines are not remotely alike.

n3ko
08-19-2010, 08:30 AM
do mind to that PhysX was meant as a mass physics engine where hundreds maybe even thousands of object could be manipulated in real time, without performance issues with the addon-accelerator card.

there is no such thing as accelerator card "without performance issues". everything has its limits.

if you enable physx on your nvidia you got less fps overall. so (if you want to play with all the eyecandy, full hd res, aa etc) you need very fast and expensive card (plus equivalent m/b, cpu etc) for fps still be acceptable after enabling physx.

DIENER
08-19-2010, 12:12 PM
Am I the only nVidia card owner who doesn't really care whether or not PhysX is enabled? >_>
You are not alone but I enable it anyway because I can. Why not when I can get playable fps with it on.