PDA

View Full Version : Telemetry graphs, tuning, etc


PavelKrupets
09-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Hello,

Does anybody knows if this game is going to have telemetry (acceleration, etc for the whole lap or even a couple of them)?

I totally miss this feature from F1 games from 199#s... If not I am not going to buy it. No point, hard to improve your time without seeing what I am doing wrong.

Alexc26
09-04-2010, 04:39 PM
There will be full telemetry in F1 2010, so don't worry guys. Confirmed.

Found that on the the F1 2010 Codemaster forums.

leahcim
09-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Hello,

Does anybody knows if this game is going to have telemetry (acceleration, etc for the whole lap or even a couple of them)?

I totally miss this feature from F1 games from 199#s... If not I am not going to buy it. No point, hard to improve your time without seeing what I am doing wrong.

No

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/f1-2010-game-1316/418915-telemetry-3.html#post6289300

You can tweak many aspects in our game, but it has been built with the single-player element in mind (Career) which revolves around you being the driver. In this instance, you have the Race Engineer preparing the car for each circuit. Naturally some people will want to alter this setup to get more speed and/or better fit their driving style/requirements.

If CM are to continue with the series (it's well documented we have '11 but it's unclear after that) we'd no doubt get around to adding a number of features, one being telemetry. I'd especially like to include telemetry if it could be passed around amongst players, so that it's interesting for those that don't tweak setups, but want to know where they lost time to their mate...(cont)

PavelKrupets
09-04-2010, 05:36 PM
Greatest drivers always worked closely with the engineers to set their car up. So this decision tells a lot about developers and how much they know about racing. No buy for me.

Check Ayrton Senna career.

PavelKrupets
09-04-2010, 06:01 PM
This was an awesome game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_2

2IS
09-04-2010, 11:54 PM
I'm a huge F1 fan and while F1 2010 may not be a "pure" sim, it makes little difference to me. Definite buy, it's close enough and more importantly, the game looks like it's a blast to play.

PavelKrupets
09-05-2010, 12:22 AM
That's a kind of a problem for me. New games sure look great and I have no problem with this. But they are simpler (in a sense that they are farther from real life) and less interesting than old games. That suxx.

I like racing. I do go carts (as it's cheap and a lot of fun) and I would like to see telemetry to improve my skills otherwise it's a waste of money for me.

2IS
09-05-2010, 10:38 AM
What you need is a simulator, an actual simulator if you really want to improve your skills. This is a game with simulator aspects. It's not ment to improve your real world driving skills but to simply have fun with it. Even if it did have telematry, I doubt it would have much real world use to you unless other parts of the game were also changed to make it a pure sim.

PavelKrupets
09-05-2010, 12:32 PM
Shoot... I was hoping that F1 2010 would be more like simulator... Oh well...

Alexc26
09-05-2010, 01:07 PM
Shoot... I was hoping that F1 2010 would be more like simulator... Oh well...

It has some Simulator aspects to it, but its not a full on simulator like flight simulator etc.

PavelKrupets
09-05-2010, 01:14 PM
It has some Simulator aspects to it, but its not a full on simulator like flight simulator etc.

What aspects?

As I understand:
- there is no tuning (like setting gear ratios, suspension, etc)
- there is no telemetry (how can I find my mistakes?)

2IS
09-05-2010, 01:26 PM
I believe the physics in the game are far more simulator than arcade, which IMO is the most important thing. That would go a lot further in helping real world driving skills than telemetry IMO.

PavelKrupets
09-05-2010, 01:39 PM
I believe the physics in the game are far more simulator than arcade, which IMO is the most important thing. That would go a lot further in helping real world driving skills than telemetry IMO.

I am not sure how to judge degree-of-simulation. I've never driven F1. I see no data on how it performs. It's purely subjective (i.e. if you feel it's more a simulator than arcade).

2IS
09-05-2010, 01:47 PM
I am not sure how to judge degree-of-simulation. I've never driven F1. I see no data on how it performs. It's purely subjective (i.e. if you feel it's more a simulator than arcade).

Well then it wouldn't matter either way regarding telemetry since it wouldn't improve your driving one way or another unless you're planning to drive an F1 vehicle. ;)

PavelKrupets
09-05-2010, 01:55 PM
Well then it wouldn't matter either way regarding telemetry since it wouldn't improve your driving one way or another unless you're planning to drive an F1 vehicle. ;)

Maybe you are right. But game can use a lot of arcade-driving and you wouldn't really notice. It might be good to have fun but I am looking for something different. I have a couple of games from Codemasters and as I am sure they use the same engine I don't need just-another-game-like-those-I-already-own.

Cheers! :) Have fun playing.

KCK
09-06-2010, 09:49 AM
I don't think that detailed telemetry improves your driving/setup, it's only useful for the engineers to see if every part works as intended or if something might be damaged. As driver lap/sector time shows everything you need to know. In addition you'll 'feel' if you hit the rev limit on straights or not and a few laps with different gear settings would quickly show if a change improves lap time or not.

What I hate about tuning in most games is, that the developers seem to forget that it's a game and expect players to have serious knowledge about car mechanics. You're either stuck with default settings or you have to adjust 30-50 different settings, of which most affect each other. In order to improve handling you could adjust the springs or the roll bars OR wheel alignment OR downforce..it's insane and adjusting the gearbox is even worse.. Then you have these informations at the side of the screen, that explain all the technical crap and you have to wait until it scrolls down to the point where it actually tells you what a higher/lower setting does.

You can tweak many aspects in our game, but it has been built with the single-player element in mind (Career) which revolves around you being the driver. In this instance, you have the Race Engineer preparing the car for each circuit. Naturally some people will want to alter this setup to get more speed and/or better fit their driving style/requirements.
Just once in a game I want to be the driver, without having to be a engineer at the same time. While real drivers have more or less deep knowledge about cars..it's just a game and adjusting a car could be as simple as a handful sliders instead of 30-50 settings.

understeer<>oversteer
corner control<>straight speed
acceleration<>top speed
front<>rear (brake balance)

I want to complain to my engineer about understeer, tell him I need more top speed for straights and then more downforce, because it becomes unstable in corners..I don't get why no developer has included a simplified tuning interface that automatically adjusts the complex car settings to get the desired effect.

I haven't seen the tuning interface of F1 2010 yet, but my guess is it will be the all or nothing approach as always..

PavelKrupets
09-06-2010, 12:22 PM
I don't think that detailed telemetry improves your driving/setup, it's only useful for the engineers to see if every part works as intended or if something might be damaged. As driver lap/sector time shows everything you need to know. In addition you'll 'feel' if you hit the rev limit on straights or not and a few laps with different gear settings would quickly show if a change improves lap time or not.

For instance you can see how you applied brakes and/or accelerator while entering and leaving the corner. I find it of huge help.

Like for instance accelerating with 1/2 the strength or accelerating and then depressing the accelerator pedal. All this points out that I entered corner with incorrect speed. When you get better all this becomes hard to notice by the feeling you need some hard data (as we are talking about fractions of the second).

Also you can tune your car and go for a test lap and check where you win and loose time. Nobody drives the same so everybody has different settings. So for me and for you 'fast' setting will be different.

Another thing is that you can show it somebody who knows something abut racing and telemetry.

What I hate about tuning in most games is, that the developers seem to forget that it's a game and expect players to have serious knowledge about car mechanics. You're either stuck with default settings or you have to adjust 30-50 different settings...

I like it vice versa. I like technical stuff.

By the way games of old (see my previous posts for examples) had it all. Like for instance you can tell it that you want speed but if you really want to learn how it's done you can play with the gears ratios and wings settings (plus much more).

Problem today is that they target mass market and totally forget about everybody else. As I said I already have games like upcoming F1 2010 from Codemasters and don't need another just like them.

leahcim
09-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Greatest drivers always worked closely with the engineers to set their car up. So this decision tells a lot about developers and how much they know about racing. No buy for me.

Check Ayrton Senna career.

Ayrton Senna? He's like you is he? Heh.

Seriously though, he could drive, ergo the feedback he gave was from driving the car and seeing how it felt, not from looking at a graph.

You won't be any quicker with telemetry. You seem to have misunderstood the quote too, there is tuning, it's just that, like in real F1, you start with a realistic tune from your engineer, which you can then tweak.

So, the game will have everything you need to pretend to be Ayrton Senna except his car. You'll have to make do with one of the 2010 models :)

As Ant Davidson said in one of the developer videos, F1 cars aren't taken to races with the completely wrong settings, the wrong gear ratios and the wrong aero. Yes, they tweak their setups over the weekend, but they don't devise them there. And he's speaking as someone that has been part of a team.

But it seems moot, there's little point arguing in here about it, the game doesn't have telemetry, end of story. If you weren't interested in the game you'd just hit x and type the url of a forum for a game you were interested in. You wouldn't sit here arguing about it :)

To me it would be very surprising if someone who has enjoyed any previous F1 game released and / or is a fan of F1, didn't find this game enjoyable to play and couldn't find a lot of hours gameplay from it.

Concentrating on the features the game does have, rather than the ones it doesn't and, imo, it looks a great game that, if it lives up to these expectations, I expect to play for, well, enough hours to justify the price. YMMV, but I think its worth considering the glass half full perspective.

Will it be the ultimate F1 game? Possibly not. As they've said, they have to start somewhere and time and budget means the game cannot have every feature. But they've also said they've got the F1 license for future years and their intentions are to take what they've developed here and move it forward.

That said, I'm sure it will be the best F1 game considered from some perspectives if not all.

PavelKrupets
09-06-2010, 10:13 PM
Ayrton Senna? He's like you is he? Heh.

Nah of course he isn't. And I am as far from him as our sun from the center of the galaxy. I just watched some training sessions and he was working on telemetry with his engineers. Also some documentaries note that he was fine tuning his car almost every available second. But all that's irrelevant.

I find that I miss telemetry (as I played games with it) and as I am spending my money I am not spending them here.

I was checking games features before buying it.

bschuler
09-07-2010, 09:13 AM
Personally, I'm holding out for F1 2011. IMHO, They are just basically skinning Dirt 2 with street courses and F1 cars for F1 2010. Oh and adding the way over hyped interviews. Yippee..

It's my understanding that any actual F1 stuff not in Dirt2, like safety car laps, telemetry, etc.. won't be in the game until atleast F1 2011.

If you own Grid or Dirt 2.. save your $35 and in 10 months it will help cut almost 50% off the price of the much better and more realistic $60 F1 2011 game.

Vodor
09-07-2010, 10:48 AM
Ouch, Seriously is there any evidence that this is based off Dirt or Grid? Was hoping it was going to be more like Race07 but F1 based.
That's going to be a huge disappointment to a lot of people if it is.

dafrety
09-07-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm of the understanding that it will use the same engine as Dirt and Grid. However, I doubt they're just going to change the cars and tracks and call it a day. In my experience with Codemasters they just don't do that.

2IS
09-07-2010, 04:05 PM
Ouch, Seriously is there any evidence that this is based off Dirt or Grid? Was hoping it was going to be more like Race07 but F1 based.
That's going to be a huge disappointment to a lot of people if it is.

That's more a guess on his part than anything else. Yes, it's based on the same engine as Dirt 2, which means the graphics will look similar, that hardly means it's the same game.

Transmeta
09-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Greatest drivers always worked closely with the engineers to set their car up. So this decision tells a lot about developers and how much they know about racing. No buy for me.

Check Ayrton Senna career.

And look where he ended up...

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 12:10 AM
And look where he ended up...

Stars which shine twice as hard live half as long. At least he will be remembered for a while. Everybody already forgot most of the other pilots.

P.S. Unlike in the real world, F1 game couldn't kill, which is a definite plus.

Transmeta
09-08-2010, 12:22 AM
Don't get me wrong, he was a great driver, but now we have another 'great driver' that should suffer the same fate just to keep his own legacy intact. And there were many before Senna and will be many after, lets watch hammy not get robbed again this year!

2IS
09-08-2010, 12:44 AM
Stars which shine twice as hard live half as long. At least he will be remembered for a while. Everybody already forgot most of the other pilots.

P.S. Unlike in the real world, F1 game couldn't kill, which is a definite plus.

Senna "legendary" status is for great driving and dying. They dying he had no say in, but I'm sure it goes a LONG way in carrying his name. Would he be as highly regarded and talked about as much if he were still alive today? Doubtful unless he was still involved in the sport somehow.

I personally think Hamiliton is every bit as good as Senna ever was, if not even a little better. He's fast, aggressive and exciting to watch. Barring a senna-like tragedy, I see him breaking lots of records. Hopefully McLaren can help avoid such tragedy by designing a wheel that doesn't keep machining itself to pieces.

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 09:10 AM
I personally think Hamiliton is every bit as good as Senna ever was, if not even a little better. He's fast, aggressive and exciting to watch. Barring a senna-like tragedy, I see him breaking lots of records. Hopefully McLaren can help avoid such tragedy by designing a wheel that doesn't keep machining itself to pieces.

Yeh. Hope nobody dies in F1. And there are no 'if's in history. I like Hamilton but F1 isn't even '10%' as interesting as it was during the days of Senna (not only because of him).

Maybe it has to do with the fact that back than I was a kid and everything was much more interesting.

leahcim
09-08-2010, 09:42 AM
Nah of course he isn't. And I am as far from him as our sun from the center of the galaxy. I just watched some training sessions and he was working on telemetry with his engineers. Also some documentaries note that he was fine tuning his car almost every available second. But all that's irrelevant.


Indeed, remember this game is F1 2010. The 2010 is the year. Senna died and isn't in this game.

Plus, the rules have changed since he was driving in F1. Spending weeks and weeks and millions of pounds testing at "every available second" no longer happens.

But, if you don't think you can be competitive it's reasonable to chicken out. Not everyone can be quick, even in a computer game. I heard Hanna Montana is releasing a game, maybe you'll be good at that :)

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 09:52 AM
Indeed, remember this game is F1 2010. The 2010 is the year. Senna died and isn't in this game.

Plus, the rules have changed since he was driving in F1. Spending weeks and weeks and millions of pounds testing at "every available second" no longer happens.

But, if you don't think you can be competitive it's reasonable to chicken out. Not everyone can be quick, even in a computer game. I heard Hanna Montana is releasing a game, maybe you'll be good at that :)

I'd rather wait for proper racing sim (I am sure this one will be more arcade than not). For now I will race go-carts in real life. More fun anyway.

leahcim
09-08-2010, 10:02 AM
For now I will race go-carts in real life. More fun anyway.

Indeed, it's a much better thing to do than to kid yourself a computer game is real or "a proper sim"

I always recommend folk who wonder if playing a game will get them into motorsport "Buy a push bike, not a 360". F1 drivers are fit.

The 8-10 year olds that are really good at karting go onto bigger and better things, eventually reaching F1. So good luck with that, you never know. You're probably better practising as you wouldn't want to be one of these adult karters that never made it past stage one :)

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 10:07 AM
You're probably better practising as you wouldn't want to be one of these adult karters that never made it past stage one :)

Well simulators have their uses and they do teach you stuff, but they couldn't replace a real deal. I race go-carts 'cause they are cheap. I am not planning on becoming a race driver (too late and I like my current carrier).

leahcim
09-08-2010, 10:12 AM
Well simulators have their uses and they do teach you stuff


Bear in mind these are kids talking about buying computer games, not simulators. A decent F1 simulator would cost them far more than a seat in a real car, let alone more than karting.

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 10:15 AM
Well it's hard to argue as I am not aware of any F1 sims currently available. On the other hand X-Plane cost only $40 and it's a decent flight simulator (you can spend more to enable some features but you can learn to fly without them).

leahcim
09-08-2010, 10:25 AM
Well it's hard to argue as I am not aware of any F1 sims currently available.


Many of the F1 teams have them. Ant Davidson, who played a part in developing F1 2010 regularly drives Mercedes one. You'll often see Webber showing the track in the Red Bull one.

Some are based off of rfactor pro.

But as I say, too expensive for most pockets. If someone had no racing experience at all, much cheaper for them to go to their local track.

On the other hand X-Plane cost only $40 and it's a decent flight simulator (you can spend more to enable some features but you can learn to fly without them).

I think if you check the fuss over being able to learn to fly in a simulator and getting it FAA certified and so on. The FAA aren't as interested in how accurate the physics are so much as they are about procedures and controls being realistic.

Learning to xxx is very different from doing xxx to the nth degree.

E.g Learning to drive would be far easier to do in a simulator than learning to race. Because, when you learn to drive you don't generally do 300kph around your town seeing how fast you can get around each corner. I'm sure you'll find learning to fly is similar. So you simply wouldn't need anything that simulated "driving on or over the limit" in the first place.

PavelKrupets
09-08-2010, 12:09 PM
I think if you check the fuss over being able to learn to fly in a simulator and getting it FAA certified and so on. The FAA aren't as interested in how accurate the physics are so much as they are about procedures and controls being realistic.

Well unlike arcades X-Plane allows you to create aircraft and then check if it flies. I mean it does the math. It's quite accurate on slow speeds (basically it's accurate where humankind really understand physics of what's going on). But we are getting off topic.

Thanks for mentioning "rfactor pro" will check this out.

dustyjo
09-12-2010, 09:46 AM
Greatest drivers always worked closely with the engineers to set their car up. So this decision tells a lot about developers and how much they know about racing. No buy for me.

Yeah because Anthony Davidson knows NOTHING about racing.

Nicolay77
09-15-2010, 10:33 AM
Well it's hard to argue as I am not aware of any F1 sims currently available. On the other hand X-Plane cost only $40 and it's a decent flight simulator (you can spend more to enable some features but you can learn to fly without them).

I would argue it is more because of your lack of searching than because none exists right now.

rFactor (http://www.rfactor.net/) has several F1 mods. They are somewhat good, limited only by the tire model of rFactor.

iRacing will have a F1 car later this year. (http://www.iracing.com/news/williams-f1-and-iracing-announce-virtual-version-of-att-williams-fw31/) It is argued by most sim racers to be the best and more realistic driving simulator available. They will updated the tire model and graphics engine this year too.

You can test your skill in the Ferrari Simulator (http://www.ferrarivirtualacademy.com/game/en/index.jsp) too. Recently released, it is also considered to be very good.

Of course, none of them are in Steam. I hope rFactor2 will be.

I preordered F1 2010 just for the fun factor.

beute89
09-15-2010, 12:09 PM
I would be totally happy with simple car adjustments like we had in dirt2.

that would be enough.
Is that implemented?

And I really hope this games comes close to NFS shift and GT5 in terms of realism. (if all aids are turned to off of course)

I definetaly dont want it to be the next burnout, even dirt2 was too arcade for my taste.

not on topic, but does anyone know if there will be mod support for the PC version?
or atleast replaceable textures/models/configs.
(you know, like swapping the mclaren with a mclaren of 1999, just for pure cosmetics, or editing a config file to rename michael schumacher to ayrton senna or something like that, just easy modifications)

enkilol
09-15-2010, 01:48 PM
well like GrandPrix4 after some time they create a lot of programs to edit the game itself.so if F12010 become the new GP4.. i mean years going to pass and no new F1 game released new programs ll exist.

AND I MEAN IT

leahcim
09-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I would be totally happy with simple car adjustments like we had in dirt2.

that would be enough.
Is that implemented?


Yep. From what I've read : you can alter the setup / save and load setups. You get a bunch of pre-set setups from your engineer, for each track, to cater for different driving styles and conditions (like wet weather, understeer, oversteer) which you can then tweak if you want.

The basic idea is (and this is paraphrasing ant davidson's interview), you get a competitive car to start. You might tweak a few tenths, but you aren't starting with a car with all the wrong steering and gear ratios and aerodynamics that's seconds off the pace that you have tune from scratch.


And I really hope this games comes close to NFS shift and GT5 in terms of realism. (if all aids are turned to off of course)


It's likely to be as good or better as those titles in that respect. Certainly from the tweets and comments I've seen from people who've played it (@F1Badger, @antdavidson)

not on topic, but does anyone know if there will be mod support for the PC version?
or atleast replaceable textures/models/configs.
(you know, like swapping the mclaren with a mclaren of 1999, just for pure cosmetics, or editing a config file to rename michael schumacher to ayrton senna or something like that, just easy modifications)

Well, it's difficult for a game developer to stop modding on PC games so I imagine it will happen. There's no indication they've done anything specifically to help modders though.

PavelKrupets
09-16-2010, 02:17 AM
I would argue it is more because of your lack of searching than because none exists right now.

...CUT...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! REALLY APPRECIATE!!!

Transmeta
09-16-2010, 02:25 AM
Any software would stink without proper hardware anyways. (I think but am not 100% sure that the software is Xpand Rally) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3736085669317117726#

PavelKrupets
09-16-2010, 11:59 AM
Any software would stink without proper hardware anyways. (I think but am not 100% sure that the software is Xpand Rally) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3736085669317117726#

Oh... I want this...

nicoacademia
09-17-2010, 04:46 AM
Ferrari Virtual Academy. Wonder who's that german at the top.

Jin_D3vil
09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
This is more Sim than Arcade. The whole point of not having so many options for tuning your car is that quite simply there is no such options in the real deal. You don't go to a circuit with millions of parts and build the car then and there. It's all about minor tweaks to builds that have been tested and expanded apon every race before.

A lot of drivers give feed back which in the long term adjusts the teams engineering/development of the actual cars outside of the track. But not to the scale at which a lot of racing games give you, at most that kind of element belongs on the less pro circuit. Where it's harder for a driver and teams to afford the use of multiple cars and engines. They spend a lot more time developing and testing, trying to increase engine reliability and a useful formula which gives them results. Within the tighter confines of not having a large manufacturer to back them up on costs.

PavelKrupets
09-24-2010, 05:28 PM
Ferrari Virtual Academy contains telemetry (basic). What's more you can compare it to professional driver's telemetry. How's that not educational?

ncsteeltoe
09-24-2010, 08:18 PM
It would be nice to have full Motec compatiblity view like Simbin does so you can see what the car is doing.