Silver is not a metal????

[IDED2010]

Sorry maybe this is just me but when did silver become a non-metal?
as this is the second time someone in my shop has come in asked for something metal I have offered silve gauntlets or silver armor and they said thats not what I was looking for..
Excuse me but wtf? silver most certainly is a metal or at least so says the periodic table and pretty much everyone for the past thousand or so years so why does recetter suddenly think its ok to redefine the elements and tell me that silver isnt a metal? please can you fix this or at least make it clear that they want steel items or sumin also is there a way to see what you guys classify as made of what as there are several items that I couldn't even hazard a guess at like the bows that look metalic but most liely arent and the people who ask for weapons but when you give them cetrain ones they also dont seem to think the bow or glave etc are weapons, I wish there was a button to press so recetter could say trust me it is as watch *taps the button several times* and we return to a bloodstained mess which once was the consumer who claims the glave isn't weapon.

Sorry but it just seems a little off that the text doesnt explain the exact requirements of the items the items dont explain themselves and when people purchase they seem to running with some distorted view of the world which means they only view certain mystery items as being what they want and you have to litterally guess from hundreds of items as some do and some dont work even if they are the same type of item.

[AllenJB]

In other news, treasures can be plain and candy isn't what someone wants when they ask for sweets.

[StarlightGamer]

The item descriptions in this game are all screwed up, IMO. It took me the longest time to figure out what people wanted when they requested Home Decorations, because apparently carpets and wallpaper don't count. Thankful Statue was accepted, so I just give them those every time. "Warm" is an equally annoying item description. They should have made a list of how the item is flagged under the item info so we can be sure we're trying to sell the right item, but... at least the item description helps sometimes.

[IDED2010]

I agree completely but the thing is why should we have to do this when the developer really should just get their act together some what and sort out the text or at least put the properties on the descriptions as this game obviously doesnt use real world rules to dictate its classification like one would imagine considering it makes no effect to tell you that they have ignored reality and have made gold and silver non metals and they also dont classify glaves or bows as weapons some of the staffs are weapons but some arent still I guess we can begin listing some of the problem items we know of.

[Aphileon]

Precious metal != metal. Either learn how to play the game and don't complain about it on the forums or don't learn how to play the game and stop playing.

[007Bistromath]

I think it's weird, too, but I just figured that they used "metal" to mean "iron." Not the most uncommon thing in the world, and would make sense what with being translated from moonspeak.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that a Gilded Sword isn't metal. Yes, I get that "gilded" could put it in the precious metals category, but it doesn't even look like it should be there. :|

[fnord3125]

Well, the best thing to do at this point is to keep an eye on what items change with various events. You'll see that when "metal" items go up or down in price, your silver helmets and gilded swords will be unaffected.

[IDED2010]

Precious metal != metal. Either learn how to play the game and don't complain about it on the forums or don't learn how to play the game and stop playing.

I'm sorry but thats bull♥♥♥♥ in my opinion so your saying silver isnt a metal because its a precious "metal" surely thats still metal honestly predantic bull♥♥♥♥, sorry but worth a lot or not that doesnt change what it is mate its still metal so stfu troll boy.

Agreed on the listing thing i do keep an eye on it but there are more than a few of these inconsistencies as I said earlier even some items in same catergorie are considered to be different e.g. weapons some bows are some arent and staves etc this makes it more than confusing its a lot of guess work.
I will give examples next time i get one and screenshot it.

[Aerowind]

Except in this case you're wrong. For the context of the game, Precious Metals and Common Metal is totally different.

Warms things are things like coats, scarves, fur boots, etc.

Get over it.

[TheCosmicCheese]

If it helps, think of it as they just wanting something plain, and you bust out the expensive rare stuff and their response is lol, no.

"I'm looking for a gemstone necklace"
"Here we have a 42 diamond and platinum chain with . . ."
"Ummm thats not what I'm looking for . . ."
"DIAMOND IS A GEMSTONE!"

Don't think of it as silver not being a metal, just think of it as being your utter failure as a salesperson to judge what your customer is actually asking for.

Having done sales before and having dealt with customers where unless they are specific you go for middle ground and not the highest possible grade, this doesn't bother me.

[Zechnophobe]

Except in this case you're wrong. For the context of the game, Precious Metals and Common Metal is totally different.

Warms things are things like coats, scarves, fur boots, etc.

Get over it.

See, I'd agree with you, if the game used 'common metal' instead of 'metal'. That'd make *perfect* sense, and I think we'd all nod in solemn agreement at that point.

But it doesn't. While I enjoy the sub-game of figuring out what is 'warm' (fur coats seemed an obvious choice) I do feel the metal thing was a little inconsistent.

Especially for items with no specific description saying they aren't metal, but all other versions are.

[sweitx]

I think it's weird, too, but I just figured that they used "metal" to mean "iron." Not the most uncommon thing in the world, and would make sense what with being translated from moonspeak.

I'm more annoyed by the fact that a Gilded Sword isn't metal. Yes, I get that "gilded" could put it in the precious metals category, but it doesn't even look like it should be there. :|

Iron and steel, to be more specific.

Yeah, it took me a while to figure out what is what.
Warm stuff are, well, what you would think are warm clothing, scarves are a safe-bet (and I think some hat, wool hat I think also works).

[IDED2010]

Dang man, no need to swear because your intelligence level is closer to the floor than your pen15. I was just stating obvious common sense. Sorry you have none. Good day.

Love the try troll boy but I notice a distinct lack of content in your post beyond mild troll style comments so I take it you realised your arguement was poor and really had no solid base to stand upon and like you fell apart at the first sign of resistance so back to the point I believe.

Yeah I think the easiest fix would be to adjust it from metal to iron or similar as this would at least orientate the user towards the correct items and then maybe a minor note in the item details screen to say what its made of would be good unless its supposed to be a mystery what each thing is defined as.

[Runt]

I personally never found a problem in selecting what people wanted. If someone was to say that x item is made of metal, you'd naturally presume its made from iron, nickel, zinc, copper, etc, all the various common metals that things are made from. I wouldn't presume any gold, silver or platinum unless they actually said that it is as such. If someone asks for metal, then you'd give them something steel. The 'common' is implied so unless there are any indications to the contrary, they simply want a common metal. The precious metals are such that they're normally only identified by name or as 'precious metals.' If I showed you a ring and said it was metal, I'd be surprised if you presumed it was silver or platinum rather than being a simple steel ring.

I haven't had any problems with bows or staves not being counted as weapons when a customer asks for one. They're usually what I recommend whenever they ask for 'a weapon' too unless its an adventurer when I have something better for them. 'Something warm' seemed pretty intuitive to me, though I wonder if they'll accept foods that are usually served warm/hot or things like the natural heater. 'Home Decorations' I would have presumed to be something you display on your wall or counter at home. While carpets/wallpapers are decorations as well, they would normally take alot more effort to place. If someone is installing new carpet in their house, they're not decorating, they're renovating.

[Miniver]

Why anyone would even bother trying to reprimand OP is beyond reason. It takes some serious fanboyism to take the time to argue against the fact that silver is indeed metal. Game designers should've put more thought into the ambiguity here (it's a stretch to call anything about this "ambiguous," though, as the metallic nature of silver is patently obvious).

[Heegu]

Also apparently silver gauntlets don't count as "a piece of armor".

[TheCosmicCheese]

Also apparently silver gauntlets don't count as "a piece of armor".

Gauntlets are weapons for the brawler character Elan. Noone in the game uses them as armor. They're medieval brass knuckles :D

[Zechnophobe]

Also apparently silver gauntlets don't count as "a piece of armor".

That one at least makes some sense. Not only do gauntlets only get used by mr ninja, but they also don't provide a significant bonus to defense.

While common RPG logic may tell us that it should be armor, I think it is fairly reasonable in the context of the game.

That said, it is a fair bit more ambiguous BEFORE you've unlocked Elan that this is true, because you don't have him as a baseline to inform you what they are for.

[Aerowind]

The fact that they boost attack instead of defense should be the biggest clue.

But since when was Elan a ninja? O_o He's a priest. An incredibly buff one with a serious drinking problem but a priest nonetheless.

[IDED2010]

Still makes it pretty confusing why they arent armor metals are not metal sepending on their value its all symantics I guess but I still believe that a slight change to the ingame text on certain requests would solve a lot of unhappy peoples issues here as it annoys me as each time it happens I'm pretty sure it effects their loyalty and as I've been playing on a purely merchant basis that effects my profits over something that really should be fine.
My mind armor covers all the suit not just the breast plate otherwise you should ask for a breastplate otherwise a helmet or gauntlets should fufill the requirements, silve and gold regardless of their value are metals and I will never understand anyone trying to argue against that the word is to general to claim it only means iron and steel items thats just stupid in my mind if someone came to me and said whats this ring made of (displaying a silver ring) are you saying if I reply metal I would be wrong? if so then maybe my education was different to yours but the periodic table clearly shows them as metals and thus trying to claim their anything else makes me believe that what I thought was common knowledge and obvious to everyone is apparently to complex?!
The fact is that the game has a few slight problems that need fixing and thats all we are highlighting here its not something up for discussion really its for the dev team to pick up and either explain and give better documentation or fix so the game makes sense and terms do specify what type of element the person is looking for. I get the ambigous terms like warm etc are fine its a bit of a guess but having items that do fit the bill not work means its a fault in either the propeties of the item or in the text used is wrong.

[Zechnophobe]

Still makes it pretty confusing why they arent armor metals are not metal sepending on their value its all symantics I guess but I still believe that a slight change to the ingame text on certain requests would solve a lot of unhappy peoples issues here as it annoys me as each time it happens I'm pretty sure it effects their loyalty and as I've been playing on a purely merchant basis that effects my profits over something that really should be fine.
My mind armor covers all the suit not just the breast plate otherwise you should ask for a breastplate otherwise a helmet or gauntlets should fufill the requirements, silve and gold regardless of their value are metals and I will never understand anyone trying to argue against that the word is to general to claim it only means iron and steel items thats just stupid in my mind if someone came to me and said whats this ring made of (displaying a silver ring) are you saying if I reply metal I would be wrong? if so then maybe my education was different to yours but the periodic table clearly shows them as metals and thus trying to claim their anything else makes me believe that what I thought was common knowledge and obvious to everyone is apparently to complex?!
The fact is that the game has a few slight problems that need fixing and thats all we are highlighting here its not something up for discussion really its for the dev team to pick up and either explain and give better documentation or fix so the game makes sense and terms do specify what type of element the person is looking for. I get the ambigous terms like warm etc are fine its a bit of a guess but having items that do fit the bill not work means its a fault in either the propeties of the item or in the text used is wrong.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/7/7/

The bad boys of punctuation are going to come for you. And there will be much rejoicing :).

[MithranArkanere]

We are noting many of them in the wiki:
http://recettear.wikia.com/wiki/Categories

The bes way to notice them are the news.
When you see a single increase or decrease, you can check you items to see the changes.
If the only new is 'Sweets are up', you go to the list, and check which items are red. And ding, those are sweets.
That works only when there's a single one, though, but it's faster than getting clients angry by testing stuff.

[IDED2010]

Awesome, will ensure I check that :-D

and oh no my book report oh no actually its just a forum not an english test so I'll continue not caring about spelling, grammar or punctuation :-D

[DarkJeff]

Note that vendors are made of metal. Buy'em when they're cheap (80k value!) and sell'em to people who want metal. Sweet, sweet cash...

(A previous poster made a good point though. In real life, if you talk about a metal box, usually you're thinking iron or steel, not gold or platinum.)

[Zetta Hoff]

Awesome, will ensure I check that :-D

and oh no my book report oh no actually its just a forum not an english test so I'll continue not caring about spelling, grammar or punctuation :-D

Good. Everyone else will continue not caring about anything you have to say.

[IDED2010]

Good. Everyone else will continue not caring about anything you have to say.

lol I love people like you devoid of content for their arguement so they pick on things like spelling or punctation, its a nice way of showing that beyond being a predantic fool you really have nothing of value to say or contribute.
I'm sorry my dyslexia bothers you and I'm sorry I dont punctuate or spell properly but does it draw from my points no but then I imagine your the kinda guy who give ♥♥♥♥ to a guy in a wheelchair because he cant walk, you know the real classy type who is well thought and considers everything before opening his mouth...
I could list a whole host of dyslexics now that have changed the world and most of them suffered from the same problems i do but I think as your obviously so ignorant in ya little bubble it wouldn't have much effect on your self righteous opinions.

still the point isnt the fact the type of metal, metal is metal regardless and a minor change to the ingame text would make this a lot clearer rather than wrong, as silver is a metal and so is gold of course iron is to but thats why if someone says metal any of these should be acceptable as the fact remains like it or not that THEY ARE METAL, and I cannot see how anyone can argue against that its not a debate its a fact, feel free to ask your teachers or if you like me and an actual adult then feel free to go look at those since books you ignored at school.

[Keeshin]

To be fair, the game differentiates between "metal" and "precious metals". Once you've played more you will see the News text saying that "precious metals" have dropped (or increased) in value and you will also see this regarding "metals", so this theme is used in a number of different places. It's not specific to dialogue.

With that said, it was a little confusing at first when the metal items didn't sell, but it wasn't the end of the world.

[madgreyone]

I would just point out that in the third tutorial Tear does say that you will have to figure out what a customer really wants when they make a general request, and she doesn't say that it will always make sense to you.

This does in fact reflect the real world(of retail) in that often when a customer asks you for something they looking for something else. This can be for a number of reasons, including that they think a word means one thing and you think it means something else. In this case they think metal means certain items on the list, and the OP thinks it should also mean silver items.

Just because you think that a customer is wrong doesn't mean you get a sale out of them by offering them what you think they should want.

[IDED2010]

I would just point out that in the third tutorial Tear does say that you will have to figure out what a customer really wants when they make a general request, and she doesn't say that it will always make sense to you.

This does in fact reflect the real world(of retail) in that often when a customer asks you for something they looking for something else. This can be for a number of reasons, including that they think a word means one thing and you think it means something else. In this case they think metal means certain items on the list, and the OP thinks it should also mean silver items.

Just because you think that a customer is wrong doesn't mean you get a sale out of them by offering them what you think they should want.


Thats a very fair point, guess I'm used to niche marketing so people only come to me because they know what they want (I run a lot of online niche websites so we get traffic via people searching for things e.g. lay betting system) so I guess I've educated myself into feeding customers items to exact specifications rather than trying to hit general markets that are hard to sell to as people who dont know what they want rarely buy anything but this game goes against real life economy as rather than saying weapon and meaning any weapons they say weapons but what they mean is sword lol its a bit of a round about way of doing it but I guess your suggestion does cover the slight inconsistencies in the text.

Oh and to the precious metals comment I must admit I have completed all the payments based purely on buying and selling (no dungeons) and still never saw that news so that would also lend to that point I guess there should be a section to cover all the varieties of item types, I dont mean catergorise them and define as I see the point of making you figure it out but being aware of the varieties that could appear would help people make an educated choice rather than stabbing in the dark otherwise its like them saying clothes and only accepting weapons.

[madgreyone]

All I did was figure out at least one item for each category and stocked up on a bunch. Even if I'm not making much money selling them a rusty dagger(metal, weapon, plain) I don't miss my just bonus and i don't upset my customer.

I also keep around wool hats(warm, clothing, plain), and thankful statues(precious metal, home decoration), as well as melons(food, sweets).
While the requests can be a pain in the beginning, looking for items that fit more than one category makes it a bit easier. The only one i'm still not too sure about is the "something rare" request. Fishing poles and music players work, maybe some of the ingredients and fusion items too. So far it looks like rare means things you can't buy. There may also be a price minimum, as they won't take slime fluids or other more common ingredients(well, duh i guess, they are pretty common). They also won't take the weapons that sell one at a time, which was my first thought.

[ExoCorsair]

The Wikia pages are good for this.

http://recettear.wikia.com/wiki/Recettear_Wiki

[IDED2010]

I never would have gussed the idols were home decoration I thought they were religous items, like offerings to their god or whatever so they buy them and take them to temple so thanks and good find on that one.
Thanks for the heads up on the rare thing to I haven't had that request either, do the odd vase comply to rare or only the poles and music players?

[Edit]
*Notes wiki link and bookmarks it this time!*
Cool I'll use that as the manual as is deffinately covers the game in better detail.