PDA

View Full Version : Unofficial List of Steam Games with DRM


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

flibitijibibo
09-20-2010, 11:51 PM
As of April 27, 2013, The Big List of 3rd Party DRM on Steam has been moved to the PC Gaming Wiki:

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_3rd_Party_DRM_on_Steam

Further discussions regarding the list may still occur here, but I encourage you to collaborate with the PCGW team and use the wiki page's discussion tab.

-flibit

flibitijibibo
10-27-2010, 11:52 AM
A new version of GTA4 has been released: http://store.steampowered.com/app/901583/

It appears to be void of SecuROM, but still uses Rockstar Club and GFWL. If anyone can confirm the removal of SecuROM, please post here with the info.

Toto pectore
10-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Just note: link mentioned in preview post leads to Grand Theft Auto IV: Complete Edition (Grand Theft Auto IV and Episodes From Liberty City). So far it's limited to NA, so if you are getting page error, don't wonder.

Snowey111
10-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Only two games out of 81 i own with DRM. And that's for a reason.
I own GTA:IV and Red faction:Guerrilla.

SunriseDriver
10-27-2010, 02:37 PM
The Witcher at retail has TAGES I think or it was also removed via patch?

thePyro_13
10-27-2010, 06:33 PM
Good read, +rep.

Should EA DRM have its own section, last I heard they were implementing their own form of Ubisoft DRM?

cristianesza
10-27-2010, 06:47 PM
Add ARMA2 to that list, it uses a third party DRM called FADE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARMA_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADE

bb10
10-27-2010, 07:57 PM
Very curious about GTA IV Complete Edition.

EDIT: They removed this part from the fineprint (included on GTA IV store page):
"An internet connection, assorted software installations, and certain service registrations are required for activation and use of this software."

Also, Other requirements doesn't list "software installations required including Sony DADC SecuROM" like on the Episodes store page.

Should EA DRM have its own section, last I heard they were implementing their own form of Ubisoft DRM?

Only C&C4 has it. Probably not going to be used on anything else.

Shenzi
10-27-2010, 08:10 PM
Battlestations Pacific (http://store.steampowered.com/app/12840/)

i was wondering what drm "battlestations: pacific" would have, but your link leads to dirt2. not a complaint, just reporting.

flava_clown
10-27-2010, 11:32 PM
i was wondering what drm "battlestations: pacific" would have, but your link leads to dirt2. not a complaint, just reporting.

the link to "battlestations: pacific": http://store.steampowered.com/app/8170/

there is no info on the storepage about a 3rd party DRM, but i would say it's listed here only because of GfWL since it appears only in the GfWL section ;)

StingingVelvet
10-28-2010, 05:09 AM
Hey look someone moved this back to where it belongs. Way to go.

bb10
10-28-2010, 09:55 AM
Shank (http://store.steampowered.com/app/6120/) seems to be using 3rd party DRM called SolidShield.

"GAME USES SOLIDSHIELD CONTENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY. (WWW.SOLIDSHIELD.COM). GAME CAN BE PLAYED ON UP TO TWENTY COMPUTERS AT THE SAME TIME; USERS CAN MANAGE WHICH COMPUTERS ARE AUTHORIZED OR DE-AUTHORIZED TO PLAY GAME."

Mikouen
10-28-2010, 10:18 AM
Just pointing out that the limits on Alpha Protocol, Borderlands, and GTA4: EFLC are for simultaneous activations, and also deactivate themselves during uninstallation.

It may be worth noting that, lest people mistakenly think the games become useless after being installed five times (like Spore was when bought at retail).

epsylon_Z1
10-28-2010, 10:56 AM
Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition

http://store.steampowered.com/app/58520/

No information about third party DRM on the store page . ( Impulse version has SecuROM )

Aura891
10-28-2010, 11:01 AM
Shank (http://store.steampowered.com/app/6120/) seems to be using 3rd party DRM called SolidShield.

"GAME USES SOLIDSHIELD CONTENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY. (WWW.SOLIDSHIELD.COM). GAME CAN BE PLAYED ON UP TO TWENTY COMPUTERS AT THE SAME TIME; USERS CAN MANAGE WHICH COMPUTERS ARE AUTHORIZED OR DE-AUTHORIZED TO PLAY GAME."

lol that seems like, if i read that correctly, a pretty decent DRM

20 computers at the same time? dang

Also, wasn't there a thread like this already?

epsylon_Z1
10-28-2010, 11:04 AM
Shank (http://store.steampowered.com/app/6120/) seems to be using 3rd party DRM called SolidShield.

"GAME USES SOLIDSHIELD CONTENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY. (WWW.SOLIDSHIELD.COM). GAME CAN BE PLAYED ON UP TO TWENTY COMPUTERS AT THE SAME TIME; USERS CAN MANAGE WHICH COMPUTERS ARE AUTHORIZED OR DE-AUTHORIZED TO PLAY GAME."you know , it's impossible with the Steam version

bb10
10-28-2010, 12:03 PM
you know , it's impossible with the Steam version

Yep, which makes it completely useless.

EDIT: SolidShield seems to be from the company that makes Tages.

http://www.solidshield.com/en
"Copyright © Tages SAS, 2010. All rights are reserved."

flava_clown
10-28-2010, 12:33 PM
Just pointing out that the limits on Alpha Protocol, Borderlands, and GTA4: EFLC are for simultaneous activations, and also deactivate themselves during uninstallation.

that's not 100% correct, at least in case of borderlands you need a "revoke tool (http://download.securom.com/support/borderlands/RevokeallDLCs.zip)" to get your activation back.

https://support.securom.com/pop_borderlands.html
http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=90096

SuperCake
10-28-2010, 06:57 PM
Doesn't DMC3 and 4 have SecuRom? Capcom used to love using that on all their games before they switched to GFWL.

It states on another site, that has a list of DRM'd games (don't wanna link the site here because not sure if it's allowed), they both have SecuRom, but Im not sure if that's only for non-Steam versions.

541n7
10-28-2010, 07:07 PM
It still angers me that they can dare to put a limit on the amount of times you can install a game. IDIOTS. You are penalizing the very people who lined your pockets by Legally and legitimately purchasing your product. WHY. How can they be that STUPID. It's things like that that start to turn people to illegal downloads. DRM just doesn't work. Applications like steam do far more to curb piracy than DRM. I won't knowingly buy a game that I know to have that kind of DRM because I refuse to support it.

flibitijibibo
10-28-2010, 08:32 PM
Holy Jesus, I've totally missed the last couple of days with this thread. For some reason the subscribe button didn't quite do its job the first time.

Just posting to say that I'm updating the info. Will edit when it's finished.

EDIT:

Updates:
- Battlestations Pacific fix
- Added to Other DRM:

Shank, Solidshield
ARMA 2, FADE

Requests:
- GTAIV Complete (http://store.steampowered.com/app/901583/) information (US only? SecuROM/DRM free?)
- Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/58520/) information (DRM free?)
- The Witcher (http://store.steampowered.com/app/20900/) information (TAGES?)

Future Updates:
- I am trying to rewrite the DRM list to make 2 large sections: software-based DRM and account-based DRM. Here's a quote from the old thread:As of now, I'd prefer to limit it to accounts that are involved in activation, such as Rockstar Club and EA accounts. There are simply too many games which have proprietary accounts and other non-intrusive checks (CD key input, for example) that do not serve as DRM.

Updated to remove UT3 from the list. With this new policy, I would also like to begin adding games that have their own account-based activation system, such as EA accounts and Rockstar Club. I consider these DRM because they act similarly to Steam DRM, but without the special client/service.

To those unfamiliar: I have two EA accounts. One is from the old EA system, and the other is from the new EA system. The old EA account has Battlefield 2142 on it, and my new account only has the Medal of Honor beta. The new account is an EA master ID, and my old account needs a master ID, but it will only allow me to create an ID, rather than just allowing me to add the ID to my new account. And, because BF2142's CD key is permanently registered to the old account (a la Steam), I HAVE to log in to BF2142 with my old account.

So, with this in mind: Please post any games with these types of systems.

Edit: I should clarify something for those confused or worried: I'm going to split the DRM list into two categories: Software-based DRM and Account-based DRM. These will be separated in such a way that allows for differentiating between the two and more easily identifying what type of DRM is more intrusive than the other (especially for those who are less concerned with DRM like EA accounts/GFWL).I should have reposted it here, sorry for the confusion.

Kloreep
10-28-2010, 10:49 PM
I remember reading that Witcher shipped with DRM initially, but I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be removed on all platforms in one of the big updates they did.

Unfortunately though, I own it through a different service, so I can't check it for you.

flibitijibibo
10-28-2010, 10:56 PM
I checked it out; it was in fact removed in a patch. This apparently only applies to The Witcher itself; but I can't exactly decipher what else they could be talking about (versus?): http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=17503.0

Updated to include The Witcher in Section 6.

Edit: Also looked into Blood Bowl. It has SecuROM, same activation limits: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1532298

Added.

Mac Flavor
11-01-2010, 07:20 PM
With the 90% MLB sale from 2K right now, I'm curious about MLB 2K10 and Front Office Manager. Looks like 2K9 has SecuROM, but the other two titles don't mention DRM one way or the other.

BTW, glad to see this thread reborn. Are we now on the Patrick Troughton incarnation, or have we moved on to Jon Pertwee? ;)

mouton
11-01-2010, 08:38 PM
You might want to change the title to "games with 3rd party DRM". It's just a minor detail, but that would be more precise.

flibitijibibo
11-01-2010, 09:36 PM
With the 90% MLB sale from 2K right now, I'm curious about MLB 2K10 and Front Office Manager. Looks like 2K9 has SecuROM, but the other two titles don't mention DRM one way or the other.

BTW, glad to see this thread reborn. Are we now on the Patrick Troughton incarnation, or have we moved on to Jon Pertwee? ;)

Haw haw

2K9 uses a CD check, but the other 2 are DRM-free as far as the Intermanets can tell.

Also, I cannot change the thread title, only the subject of the OP. I'll change it if I'm ever given the ability to do so (I should have asked when we moved this to the proper section).

flibitijibibo
11-11-2010, 12:35 AM
Goodness me, it's been a while since I've had to add something to the list. I guess CoD 2010 thinned out the releases for this quarter. Yay aggressive crowd-outs for Tide bleach Activision titles!

Added Divinity II to SecuROM. Thanks remm!

railforge
11-14-2010, 01:03 AM
Risen (http://store.steampowered.com/app/40300/); 3 machine limit, 1 activation added back every 45 days.


There's been some debate about this in the Risen subforum.

No one there has seen any remotely official information that activations are returned after 45-days. The Steam page mentions the "3 machine limit", but nothing about 45-days. Returning activations is a Tages ability whose use is "decided by the publisher for each batch of keys (http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7518/tagesemail.jpg)".

To be sure, no one has yet claimed to have run into the 3-machine limit and then been unable to get more activations after 45-days, but nonetheless the dialog has been... heated. Since no one wants to deliberately run into the limit, none of us knows the truth for certain.

The Unofficial List of Steam Games with DRM seems to be the only source of the 45-days info that we can find, though maybe our Google-fu is weak. Can you please shed some light on where that info came from?

flibitijibibo
11-14-2010, 01:07 AM
That information was on the list when I picked it up, so I unfortunately do not have the sources to back it up. For all I know it could have just been assumed because of the other products' x-day policy (which, as you've cited, isn't always there).

I like how the only way we can test it is by deliberately destroying the product, too. The developer won't put out a statement?

railforge
11-14-2010, 01:19 AM
I'll let you know if I get an informative response from them.

flibitijibibo
11-14-2010, 01:20 AM
Alrighty, thanks. To avoid feedback loops I'm-a post a warning on that game's info. Hope that helps :P

flibitijibibo
11-14-2010, 03:59 PM
Yeah, thst is true. The Steam store does this as well, but its accuracy is plain terrible. This is the best way that we can keep a proper list without access to the store database and such.

railforge
11-15-2010, 07:05 AM
The developer won't put out a statement?

We've got an answer. Risen has three activations; they're not automatically returned. Users can contact Deep Silver tech support for more activations if they use up their three.

The German publisher's actual statement:

As promised, I just has a call with our support guys to gather information about the activation-limit and here are the details:

First off let me explain when you need to reactivate your game. You will only have to reactivate the game when you change the hardware in your PC or doing a complete reinstall of your operating system. Other than that, you will not have to activate your game again since Tages remembers the activation even if you install and reinstall the game a hundred times.

Buyers of Risen will be able to activate the game three times, before you will have to fire off an email to the Deep Silver support. If you send them your current key and a proof of purchase (e.g. receipt from Steam) you will get another bunch of activations. So there is in fact no limit in activations, but if you change your hardware 3 times or reinstall Windows on a regular basis you will have to send the support guys an email.

The reason why there is a check is that we'd like to monitor the usage of keys to combat fraudulent use. If you're doing regular reinstalls of your OS or changing hardware like crazy I would also like point out that there is the possibility to buy the disc version of Risen from retailers like Play.com, Amazon.com etc. which will neither require an activation nor Steam.

flibitijibibo
11-15-2010, 09:07 AM
Awesome, many thanks. I hate having inaccuracies like that.

Updated the TAGES list and added your post to Section 4.

flava_clown
11-15-2010, 10:20 AM
I noticed on gamersgate when a game has DRM, they put a picture on the store page that the game contains DRM.

unfortunately not always. there are alot of games where the DRM info is missing, which is in case of Ubisoft published games quite bad. i've contacted the support there once to ask what kind of DRM a game is using to see if i can buy it or not and the answer was everything but helpful! (it was an Ubisoft title and i was afraid that this is using the socalled Ubisoft DRM which is used in games like Settlers 7)

and what they call DRM-free is also not 100% the truth.

if you want 100% DRM-free games buy indie games directly from the developer... like Nyxquest (which would be for europeans even cheaper than to buy it here on steam)

Don2Pac
11-15-2010, 10:22 AM
Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. 2 has DRM also

flibitijibibo
11-15-2010, 11:16 AM
Added. I seriously cannot believe that they're still trying Ubisoft DRM.

railforge
11-15-2010, 12:12 PM
I got a reply back (http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2590/tagesdrmrisenonsteam.png) from Deep Silver's tech support. At least now we know where the 45-day rumor likely comes from. Retail versions of Risen have 45-day regenerating activations and Steam versions do not.

flibitijibibo
11-15-2010, 12:14 PM
Wow, bonus points for them actually responding about DRM. I've always had nothing but trouble when contacting EA and such about it. And this...We support people don't have a clue why the management decided it to be this way...I'm... I'm sorry. Give those guys some promotions. Not just any promotion either. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZH3SpBujwk)

I guess I'll add that part to the OP.

CrazyTerabyte
11-15-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm confused... The german publisher said the retail version does not require any kind of activation, while the Deep Silver said the retail has regenerating activations every 45 days. What's correct anyway?

flibitijibibo
11-15-2010, 03:22 PM
I imagine support is telling the truth. The publisher usually has no clue what they're talking about without a technical adviser feeding them the facts. Both games have activation, but retail has a regenerating limit. Considering how TAGES works, makes sense to me (well, as much sense as DRM can make).

Fozzy the bear
11-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Arma2's DRM isn't all that bad.

Wings of Prey is another story. It requires you to log onto Yuplay.ru, a Russian version of Steam and only give you three activation limit. It seems overly complicated and shouldn't be so. Why even have a DRM for the game when Steam is enough?

flibitijibibo
11-15-2010, 11:13 PM
Updated to include the new Borderlands DLC Pack. Does it bother anyone else that they've released all these new Borderlands PC packages and none of them address SecuROM at all? You'd think that removing it would help with all of the promotion...

Metro
11-15-2010, 11:35 PM
So wait... the Steam version of Risen has only 3 activations that don't restore on an uninstall such that you have to contact the publisher past the third installation? That's terrible.

flibitijibibo
11-16-2010, 01:53 PM
Updated to include "nail'd" under TAGES. No information on regenerating activations.

faceless007
11-21-2010, 11:31 AM
The game Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper comes with TAGES DRM, even though it's not listed on the game's store page.

flibitijibibo
11-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Added. Any idea what the activation rules are?

flava_clown
11-24-2010, 12:21 PM
does someone know if they have solidshield removed from Shank? coz the information that Shank comes with this 3rd party DRM is removed from the storepage.

also does Alpha Protocol still have uniloc?

bb10
11-24-2010, 12:42 PM
does someone know if they have solidshield removed from Shank? coz the information that Shank comes with this 3rd party DRM is removed from the storepage.It seems the DRM was removed in an update. Or at least the activation.

4. Shank needs to activate every time we launch the game
We’ve fixed this issue — in this update, activation will no longer be necessary.

Also: After the update, a file related to activation may remain on your machine. If this file is present on your machine and you wish to delete it, you will find it in your steam directory in the steamapps\common\shank\bin folder. The file is named “activation.x64.dll.”

Not sure if a clean install leaves any inert DRM files.

also does Alpha Protocol still have uniloc?I don't see why not.

flava_clown
11-24-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't see why not.

first of all, thanx for your answer.

to answer your question. coz the storepage says absolutly nothing about a 3rd party DRM, i know there was a note on the storepage to Shank, however i don't know if there was once one on the Alpha Protocol storepage.
it would have been good if they would have removed uniloc, but okay at least i can save some money...

bb10
11-24-2010, 01:24 PM
first of all, thanx for your answer.

to answer your question. coz the storepage says absolutly nothing about a 3rd party DRM, i know there was a note on the storepage to Shank, however i don't know if there was once one on the Alpha Protocol storepage.
it would have been good if they would have removed uniloc, but okay at least i can save some money...
They said they would remove it, but not when.

In the future, SEGA will be releasing an unprotected patch of the game to alleviate any fears of not being able to play the game when the Uniloc servers won’t be around anymore.

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/05/01/alpha-protocol-pc-drm-details/

flibitijibibo
11-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Yes, Alpha Protocol still has Uniloc. When it will be removed has not been disclosed.

Just to clarify: Shank does have activation files, but does any type of activation other than Steam activation occur in any way? If not, I need to move Shank to the Inert DRM section.

bb10
11-24-2010, 03:54 PM
Yes, Alpha Protocol still has Uniloc. When it will be removed has not been disclosed.

Just to clarify: Shank does have activation files
Even after a clean install?

Zyrin
11-24-2010, 06:54 PM
Actually, Alpha Protocol had a patch released yesterday that patches out the DRM. It's available via Sega:

http://help.sega.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=865&nav=0

I have no idea if it's been distributed via Steam yet or if it will, as I have a retail copy. It's only an exe file and there's specifically a digital distribution version, so it should (hopefully?) work fine on Steam:

Patch notes:

================================================== ========================
ALPHA PROTOCOL
================================================== ========================
This file contains the log of the fixes and changes made to Alpha Protocol
since its initial release.

VERSION 1.1
-----------
- To resolve activation issues, PC copy protection has been removed.
- In Moscow during the assault of Brayko's Mansion, the player could get
into a situation where a door would not be openable preventing progression
through the rest of the level. This has been fixed.
- In Taipei, during the Stop the Assassination mission, the user can fall
out of the world if they reload the "Exit Gardens" checkpoint. There was
also a problem where if the player backtracked, part of the level might
not load in properly. This has also been fixed.
- In the same mission, a problem with subtitles was corrected.
- In the museum in Rome, the game could crash when using Focused Aim to
kill the NPC holding Madison in the elevator.
- Bosses could get stuck in an accelerated mode when Fury wears off.
- Chainsot was exploitable to slow time and get critical headshots without
consuming its cooldown.

flibitijibibo
11-24-2010, 07:13 PM
To my knowledge Prototype does not have DRM.

Can anyone confirm first-hand that Alpha Protocol/Shank do not have active DRM?

Mikouen
11-24-2010, 07:15 PM
A user in the Alpha Protocol forum confirms that the patch linked above does in fact work with the Steam version and will remove the Uniloc protection.

Doesn't seem like Steam is auto-patching the game yet, though since the patch was just released yesterday that's to be expected.

flibitijibibo
11-24-2010, 07:16 PM
When it is officially removed in the Steam version (not just in text) I will move it to the Removed DRM section.

loinbread
11-24-2010, 07:18 PM
Dark Void Zero is probably the most unnecessary instance of DRM I have ever seen. It did NOTHING to curb piracy and all it does is inconvenience users who want to play a tiny, casual ten megabyte game. Problems with a HDD mean I'm close to approaching my install limit.

ARMA 2 on the other hand - that's more like glorified copy protection than true DRM. It's also hilarious.

number3son
11-29-2010, 02:10 AM
Great job keeping up with this list. There are a few more games I believe you should include.

Blacklight: Tango Down - The Gamespot review (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/blacklight/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Bread-review) notes that even though this game has a single-player component, it requires you to be constantly connected to GFWL in order to play (a la Ubisoft). I do not own the game so I can't confirm it, but if true I would think that would qualify as much more restrictive than the standard GFWL scheme.

Monster Trucks Nitro - Requires online activation with RedLynx servers in order to play. I've played and confirmed this: pics 1 (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9zB12X-cnP-erIRBFkyKIw?feat=directlink) 2 (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gP_m2AIE8j9BGTKnsbR8yA?feat=directlink)

Plain Sight - Similar to Blacklight in that it has an offline single-player mode vs bots, but requires online authentication to play. This one's maybe borderline since the game's store page doesn't list Single-Player as one of the game's features (unlike Blacklight)

Stormzzz
11-29-2010, 04:08 AM
Nice work OP, this should be a sticky IMO, help steer people away from this virus that is DRM, and hopefully the devs/publishers will stop putting this crap in their games.

+ rep to you on a job well done.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 08:04 AM
Nice work OP, this should be a sticky IMO, help steer people away from this virus that is DRM, and hopefully the devs/publishers will stop putting this crap in their games.

+ rep to you on a job well done.Thanks!

Great job keeping up with this list. There are a few more games I believe you should include.

Blacklight: Tango Down - The Gamespot review (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/blacklight/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Bread-review) notes that even though this game has a single-player component, it requires you to be constantly connected to GFWL in order to play (a la Ubisoft). I do not own the game so I can't confirm it, but if true I would think that would qualify as much more restrictive than the standard GFWL scheme.

Monster Trucks Nitro - Requires online activation with RedLynx servers in order to play. I've played and confirmed this: pics 1 (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9zB12X-cnP-erIRBFkyKIw?feat=directlink) 2 (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gP_m2AIE8j9BGTKnsbR8yA?feat=directlink)

Plain Sight - Similar to Blacklight in that it has an offline single-player mode vs bots, but requires online authentication to play. This one's maybe borderline since the game's store page doesn't list Single-Player as one of the game's features (unlike Blacklight)GFWL is like that for all of its games. I guess Blacklight makes it a wee bit harsher than the rest, though.

I couldn't see the photos, but I added Monster Trucks Nitro to the list under Other.

I can add Plain Sight, but it'd be nice to have the activation method. Is it something like SecuROM, or is it a more proprietary/unique activation method like RedLynx?

EDIT: Oh Christ I thought I had Blacklight listed. It'll be up in like an hour, I have class in 2 minutes.

flava_clown
11-29-2010, 08:57 AM
I can add Plain Sight, but it'd be nice to have the activation method. Is it something like SecuROM, or is it a more proprietary/unique activation method like RedLynx?


Plain Sight comes with a serial number which is required to register/activate an account on their server, you have to be "logged in" to play. however you can mark a field "remember me" which make sure that you don't have to log in manualy each time you play.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 09:07 AM
Ah, so it's a key registration.

K, added that as well as Blacklight for GFWL.

Keen eyes will see that Plain Sight is pretty much the same as UT3, but I removed it from the list. This is because I'm still working to rebuild the list. As a reminder, here is how it's going to work:

Hardware-based DRM

SecuROM, TAGES, etc.

Account-based DRM

Games for Windows Live, EA account, other large-scale logins like Steam

Account-based DRM Per-Game

UT3, Plain Sight, etc. These may include games with simple logins, probably those requiring the use of CD keys.


Good? Good.

CalmWind23
11-29-2010, 09:37 AM
Where did you get this information?.

Server-Side Activation, or SSA. This binds the CD key permanently to your account, similarly to Steam. This has no activation limit on Steam, but Games on Demand (their online store) has a 5 activation limit. On top of this, a new GFWL feature has been added: Zero Day Piracy Protection (or ZDPP). This is their attempt to prevent pre-release copies from being played, and it can be applied to SSA games.

According to their site it states:

Server Side Authentication (SSA). This is the newer system that ties the game’s Games for Windows — LIVE access code to an individual user account. This means the user can download, install, and play the game on any number of machines, without limits. Note, however, that only the user account that activated the game’s Games for Windows – LIVE access code will be able to play the game online using Games for Windows — LIVE.

http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/About/Games-for-Windows-Live-FAQ/

nunnet1995
11-29-2010, 09:49 AM
I'm sure they have got rid of the Grand Theft Auto IV DRM now? I dont recall seeing the GTA sign in thing.

bb10
11-29-2010, 09:59 AM
Where did you get this information?.

Server-Side Activation, or SSA. This binds the CD key permanently to your account, similarly to Steam. This has no activation limit on Steam
Not all GFWL games have SSA.

I'm sure they have got rid of the Grand Theft Auto IV DRM now? I dont recall seeing the GTA sign in thing.
I did not see an update removing it. The Complete edition may or may not have SecuROM, but we don't know that for sure.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 10:01 AM
Not all GFWL games have SSA.

This.

To my knowledge the Complete Edition of GTAIV is pretty much the same as the separate products. It's like the Borderlands GotY Edition.

I haven't explicitly listed it because there is no solid evidence from either side. The DRM list policy is usually "guilty until proven innocent" (a policy I happily borrowed from DRM developers themselves), but considering GTAIV is already listed it may do the job already. Borderlands was DRM-free for some of its parts, so it was necessary to list GotY from the start.

Wooglah
11-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Company of Heroes requires cd-key based activation ingame, with special 3rd party account creation and managment. I'm pretty sure other games from Relic/THQ like WH40K Dawn of War do the same.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 11:15 AM
Alrighty, I'll keep those in mind. When I feel the list is ready to replace the current, I'll replace it all at once. I'm kind of forking it at this point, so if I add some here and don't add others, just know that it is at least in the list I'm working on.

Goteki-45
11-29-2010, 11:31 AM
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404469

Spectromancer seems to have activation limits tied to their own proprietary CD-Key authorization.

Shame too, since I was interested in that game for a while.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 11:34 AM
Added. It would be nice to know the limit though.

CrazyTerabyte
11-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I don't remember if Galcon Fusion requires an account login to play offline, but I know it is required for online play. Somewhat similar to Plain Sight.

In Plain Sight, it can be somewhat justified by the fact the game is mostly online multiplayer.
It can't be justified on Monster Trucks Nitro, as it is a single-player game. (and yes, I confirm that type of activation, and this was mentioned somewhere in the old thread)

Goteki-45
11-29-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't remember if Galcon Fusion requires an account login to play offline, but I know it is required for online play. Somewhat similar to Plain Sight.

Galcon Fusion initially required an account to play anything, it now only requires it for the multiplayer modes.

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 12:48 PM
Added to the internal list then.

CalmWind23
11-29-2010, 08:21 PM
Not all GFWL games have SSA.


I know that very well.

But my question is what does this mean "Server-Side Activation, or SSA. This binds the CD key permanently to your account, similarly to Steam. This has no activation limit on Steam, but Games on Demand (their online store) has a 5 activation limit.".

Has far i know there is no activation limit on SSA even on Games on Demand. I need to know where you got this information.

kijib
11-29-2010, 08:29 PM
great thread lets blacklist those DRM losers

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 08:36 PM
It appears to be outdated. The policy now only applies to SecuROM games.

Updated to fix the activation inaccuracy.

CalmWind23
11-29-2010, 08:44 PM
It appears to be outdated. The policy now only applies to SecuROM games.

Updated to fix the activation inaccuracy.

Thanks.

paratech2008
11-29-2010, 09:45 PM
So the Witcher doesn't have Tages / Install limits anymore? Is that true only to Steam, or retail / Direct 2 Drive / any version updated to 1.5?

flibitijibibo
11-29-2010, 09:47 PM
It sounded like it applied to all versions, but don't hold me to that. I only keep track of the Steam stuff.

BadSanta
11-30-2010, 06:58 PM
So the Witcher doesn't have Tages / Install limits anymore? Is that true only to Steam, or retail / Direct 2 Drive / any version updated to 1.5?

retail for sure. 99% any version updated to 1.5

HeroOfDarkness
11-30-2010, 08:52 PM
Do Mass Effect and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 have to be purchased through Steam to be linked to a Steam account and receive the patch? Or can it be bought from retail and still linked to Steam?

flibitijibibo
11-30-2010, 09:21 PM
Not sure about Mass Effect, but Bad Company 2 is a definite yes.

HeroOfDarkness
11-30-2010, 09:35 PM
Not sure about Mass Effect, but Bad Company 2 is a definite yes.

Um... to which question? :p I'm guessing the first one?

flibitijibibo
11-30-2010, 09:39 PM
Oh, yeah... that's to the first question. Retail can't be used on Steam.

Christ, it's not even finals week yet. Guess it's bedtime!

Right2Live
11-30-2010, 09:58 PM
What about all the ValvE games? They all use Steam as DRM.

flibitijibibo
11-30-2010, 09:59 PM
What about all the ValvE games? They all use Steam as DRM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gN2hdybFY

SuperCake
11-30-2010, 10:04 PM
What about all the ValvE games? They all use Steam as DRM.

This is a list of games with 3RD PARTY DRM - ya know, the type of DRM that is detrimental to your PC and has ridiculous activation/install limits. Some games on Steam STILL use these DRM options, for some reason, even though Steam itself is a DRM.

And, While Steam is a type of DRM itself, its not in anyway harmful or annoying as other DRM methods.

Right2Live
11-30-2010, 10:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gN2hdybFY

Eh. You're the troll.

My question was valid.

Steam is a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by the Valve Corporation.

King's Bounty: The Legend has no DRM whatsoever, and can be run without having Steam open.

Left 4 Dead 2 uses Steam DRM and cannot be run, because it's protected by the Steam DRM.




This is a list of games with 3RD PARTY DRM - ya know, the type of DRM that is detrimental to your PC and has ridiculous activation/install limits.
Thread title: "Unofficial List of Steam Games with DRM".
Point out "3rd party".

And, While Steam is a type of DRM itself, its not in anyway harmful or annoying as other DRM methods.
There are several of the DRMs listed here that are in no way harmful nor annoying.. Eg. FADE.

And most of the DRMs here actually aren't annoying at all, unless you're a pirate.

SuperCake
11-30-2010, 10:21 PM
There are several of the DRMs listed here that are in no way harmful nor annoying.. Eg. FADE.

And most of the DRMs here actually aren't annoying at all, unless you're a pirate.

DRM like GFWL and ones that give you install/activation limits are annoying to the general consumer.

Right2Live
11-30-2010, 10:53 PM
DRM like GFWL and ones that give you install/activation limits are annoying to the general consumer.

If you install a game 5 times a day, you're crazy. If you install a game 5 times a year, then how can that ever be annoying?

You just ask the company to reset your limits, and you've got another year.

And even 5 a year is a lot of reinstalls.

flibitijibibo
11-30-2010, 11:55 PM
Well, let me grab my list of possible answers here... *grabs a binder*

1. A lot according to who? ♥♥♥♥ happens: hardware, new OS, broken OS, etc.
2. It's rarely per month; in most cases it's just never. It's usually 5 times total, forever. There are numerous cases where people run out of activations and the companies don't care at all. A friend of mine has Crysis on Steam, but because he activated it 5 times he can never ever play it again without a crack.
3. Please stop being an apologist for companies that refuse to give paying customers the purchased product that they paid for with their money.
4. Go away. I'm tired.
5. Don't try to justify attempts to keep customers from products when they have worst-case scenarios without a positive best-case scenario.
6. For chrissakes, activation limits are just silly, why am I even bothering to write this when I can tell the whole thread to just ignore you?


Yeah, screw it, I'm going with Plan 6. It's 2AM and I don't need to derail the thread with something that's forbidden AS MARKED BY THE BOLD, RED AND UNDERLINED TEXT IN THE OP. SERIOUSLY, ♥♥♥♥ OFF. Moderators already seem iffy about this thread even when I'm policing the hell out of it; I don't need illiterate corporate apologists making it harder.

SuperCake
12-01-2010, 02:24 AM
If you install a game 5 times a day, you're crazy. If you install a game 5 times a year, then how can that ever be annoying?

You just ask the company to reset your limits, and you've got another year.

Multiple PCs. I also re-format my computers often. Why should I have to ask a company if its OK to install their game? Contacting someone so I can re-install/play a game is a hurdle I shouldn't need to jump over.

And even 5 a year is a lot of reinstalls.

No. 5 a year is a very small amount of "OKs".

Just stop sucking up the companies that use barbaric DRM methods before you cause someone's head to explode.

Predrag95
12-01-2010, 02:34 AM
A new version of GTA4 has been released: http://store.steampowered.com/app/901583/

It appears to be void of SecuROM, but still uses Rockstar Club and GFWL. If anyone can confirm the removal of SecuROM, please post here with the info.

"site eror"?

Tempest_Wales
12-01-2010, 04:49 AM
Multiple PCs. I also re-format my computers often. Why should I have to ask a company if its OK to install their game? Contacting someone so I can re-install/play a game is a hurdle I shouldn't need to jump over.



No. 5 a year is a very small amount of "OKs".

Just stop sucking up the companies that use barbaric DRM methods before you cause someone's head to explode.

And what about the DRM's that thinks changing out a HDD or a network card a new system?

Upgraded to a new shiny graphics card? One less activation for you!

Zorlac
12-01-2010, 04:52 AM
DRM like GFWL and ones that give you install/activation limits are annoying to the general consumer.


GFWL it's self doesn't add install limits. If you look at most GFWL games they generally contain securom (see Batman) it's what imposes the install limits, but it also gives them back every month.

Please if you're going to bash something at least know what you're talking about.

Aemony
12-01-2010, 10:25 AM
Seriously? Can't you even read?:

By moderator request, this thread is NOT to be used for ANY DRM debating, period. This is only for discussing the existence of DRM on Steam games. Additionally, mentions of piracy and instructions on how to pirate games will be reported.

flibitijibibo
12-01-2010, 11:12 AM
In case my yelling and Aemony's flat-out requoting the OP didn't send the message, I'm going to do this:

-----------------------------------------


See that line? Any DRM debating below this line is getting reported to the mods. NO EXCEPTIONS. I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ if you're for or against DRM, your blathering isn't happening here. Take it somewhere else.

I encourage others to enforce this system, because I can't manage this myself.

lozanogo
12-02-2010, 01:33 AM
First of all: excellent thread, and definitely useful as a database for extra DRM on top of Steam's own.

In regards to the EA accounts:
+ Dragon Age: Origins requires to tie the CD key to an account with them, which you can sign in inside the game itself. But their DLCs actually require you to be signed in (have an internet conection) in order to access them. On that I'm not 100% sure if a continuous internet conection is required or not.
+ The same above may apply to Mass Effect 2, but I haven't played it yet.

In addition, someone some posts above mentioned about Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War. I have the first game and expansions and there is no visible DRM for the single player campaign (never played online).

Headcrab_Zer0
12-02-2010, 03:47 AM
Got info on the implementation of TAGES for nail'd.


Note on TAGES™ DRM
3 activations
Every 30 days 1 activation gets automatically added by TAGES until the full 3 activations are reached again.

5 revocations (for the 3 activations above)
Every 30 days 1 revocation gets automatically added by TAGES until the full 5 revocations are reached again.

From the Store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/40380/).

zaney
12-02-2010, 08:29 AM
Dont care about these DRM games, if you really want a game you buy it, and if DRM is stopping you from doing it, then go eat a cookie.

COGlory
12-02-2010, 08:45 AM
Thank you for this list! I usually don't buy it if it has a DRM. (Though I couldn't resist ARMA II Combined Ops for $22.49 the other day. And I have Clear Sky too, got the uninstall for that.

flibitijibibo
12-02-2010, 08:48 AM
Headcrab_Zer0:
... What?

I uh, added the TAGES information... I think? I'll be honest, that's some confusing information right there. TAGES has no revocation system... how is that possible?

COGlory
12-02-2010, 08:49 AM
Everything has a revocation system. Format unconditionally. :P

flibitijibibo
12-02-2010, 08:50 AM
http://www.tagesprotection.com/main.htm

Mash "Activation", then Ctrl+F "Revokation".

richard.eid
12-02-2010, 12:05 PM
GFWL it's self doesn't add install limits. If you look at most GFWL games they generally contain securom (see Batman) it's what imposes the install limits, but it also gives them back every month.
SecuROM, when it's used for GFWL games, generally provides ZDPP. It's up to the publisher as to whether or not SecuROM will also provide activation limits. Not installation limits. As a requirement, all non-SSA GFWL games include installation limits, not activation limits, which is a feature of the GFWL client/service. How many is up to the publisher.

Please if you're going to bash something at least know what you're talking about.

Goteki-45
12-07-2010, 06:50 PM
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404469

Spectromancer seems to have activation limits tied to their own proprietary CD-Key authorization.

Shame too, since I was interested in that game for a while.

Added. It would be nice to know the limit though.

Someone just posted in that thread again with some info you might be interested in. I'll quote the relevant part here to save time:

I've had my key expired 3 times already. There is are 5 activations possible per key (separate for both base game and expansion).
After sending an email to support@spectromancer.com the activation limit was reset within a couple of hours.

flibitijibibo
12-07-2010, 08:43 PM
Updated the Spectromancer activation limit. Thanks again Goteki!

Zrchrn
12-07-2010, 11:25 PM
Can we get a sticky please?

railforge
12-08-2010, 03:56 AM
Headcrab_Zer0:
... What?

I uh, added the TAGES information... I think? I'll be honest, that's some confusing information right there. TAGES has no revocation system... how is that possible?

I asked on the publisher's forum. Deep Silver seemed to pretty communicative about Risen's DRM, so hopefully they'll be just as helpful with Nail'd's (that marketing apostrophe is awful).

http://forum.deepsilver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53068

I'll post here when we get a reply from the publisher.

Headcrab_Zer0
12-08-2010, 04:07 AM
Given that the info came from the store page for the game, I have to assume that it's accurate.

railforge
12-08-2010, 04:21 AM
Given that the info came from the store page for the game, I have to assume that it's accurate.

Which is why Flibitijibibo added it to the OP.

Nail'd's store page is the most definitive source of information we can currently see, but that info also seems to contradict what we know about TAGES. The best way to resolve the confusion is by asking the publisher.

bb10
12-14-2010, 03:06 PM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/47870/

Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit

No third party DRM listed or any mention of solidshield (which it uses on retail). Can anyone confirm this is true?

paratech2008
12-14-2010, 03:08 PM
Yeah, I'm curious if Need for Speed Hot Pursuit has limited installs. I purchased Need for Speed Undercover on Steam just because it doesn't have limited installs.

flibitijibibo
12-14-2010, 03:09 PM
Broadband connection for online activation

It appears to use it. This may be EA activation but either way it'll be on the upcoming list. Added under Solidshield, Other DRM. There probably aren't any activation limits if it uses the EA Master ID.

bb10
12-18-2010, 10:14 AM
It seems to be DRM free... or at least Solidshield free.

Screenshot of the folder of the Steam version: http://min.us/mvkaHC

version.txt = 1.0.1.0s <- Seems to be a custom version for Steam.

Solidshield DRM files/folders are missing (retail has a "Core" folder and Activation.exe, Activation.x86.dll and Activation.xml files).

Thanks to dudes45 for the screenshot.

flibitijibibo
12-18-2010, 11:27 AM
That's good enough for me. The activation is likely EA then, so expect it on the EA account list when that's ready.

Moved to Removed section.

sciopath
12-20-2010, 07:02 AM
Hi,

SEGA recently released a patch (http://help.sega.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=865) for Alpha Protocol; it corrected too little bugs *but* also removed Uniloc protection (not clearly explained though).
Anyway, two weeks ago I noticed an update on steam. And the store page doesn't notify the third-party DRM anymore. Seems to be okay, but not 100% sure, inert maybe?.

Kloreep
12-20-2010, 07:50 AM
There is indeed a new patch, and it does self-advertise, at least, as having the Uniloc DRM removed: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1640122

flibitijibibo
12-20-2010, 08:12 AM
Added to the Removed section. If someone has proof that it's just inert (rather than totally removed), post it here.

Also removed Uniloc subsection since it's just Football Manager now.

pmc64
12-20-2010, 08:29 PM
Anyone have any idea how we can get ea to remove secure rom from crysis and crysis warhead? All other EA games on steam have removed the limits.

pmc64
12-21-2010, 03:04 AM
F.E.A.R. multiplayer seems to be trying to install securerom because a sony dac UAC prompt keeps coming up when i try to play it.

praetorian42
12-21-2010, 03:25 AM
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1136257

Does Battlefield: Bad Company 2 need to be on this list?

pmc64
12-21-2010, 04:08 AM
No they removed securerom from bad company 2.

praetorian42
12-21-2010, 05:13 AM
K, I saw it mentioned in the agreement I had to okay before installing, it mentioned the SecurROM. So DRM was removed but the EULA or whatever wasn't updated?

flibitijibibo
12-21-2010, 08:09 AM
On BC2: Yeah, it was removed in a patch. It's probably still in the EULA in case someone installs the retail version.

On F.E.A.R.: Photo evidence would be great. For completion's sake:
1. The UAC Prompt
2. The game's executable directory
3. A Protection iD check.

pmc64
12-21-2010, 12:57 PM
there are 3 of them and 2 are in the format below and the 3rd ends in a 7.
securerom detected 07.40.0006

flibitijibibo
12-21-2010, 01:24 PM
Yup, so FEAR has SecuROM. Added. If there are activation limits, let me know. I'm sure it's available in the readme files.

Also, I just added F.E.A.R. 1, so if it's the whole pack, let me know.

I'm-a just tell you guys now, I JUST got my wisdom teeth taken out, so updated might be a little slow. I'll at the absolute very least update once a day.

I appreciate your patience and your efforts.

praetorian42
12-21-2010, 04:20 PM
Dude the thread as is is the cake. You regularly updating is the icing.
And I guess get better and enjoy those meds if/while you can.

bb10
12-22-2010, 05:47 AM
Ok, so here's the deal with F.E.A.R.:

The singleplayer executable "FEAR.exe" is SecuROM free.
The multiplayer executable "FEARMP.exe" has a SecuROM CDkey check v7.31.0007.

Then there's the 2 DLCs.
Extraction point executable "FEARXP.exe" has a SecuROM CDkey check v7.40.0006.
Perseus Mandate executable "FEARXP2.exe" also has a SecuROM CDkey check v7.40.006.

Also great is the fact that you can't install FEAR without installing the DLCs if you bought them. They are 1 big package even though the DLCs have their own entries in Steam.

EDIT: Just sent WB an email, let's see what they respond with.

JanKowalski
12-22-2010, 08:22 AM
^
Just like Company of Heroes. (the last bit)

flibitijibibo
12-22-2010, 10:21 AM
Interesting. So these two games just add to the expansion in the DLC tab, not as pseudo-stand-alones? I suppose that makes sense, but I like how the Doom and Quake series do it. It gets pretty bulky fast though:

http://www.flibitijibibo.com/images/LookitAllDatQuake.png

Anyway, clarified the F.E.A.R. DRM on the OP.

JMSNorthern
12-22-2010, 12:49 PM
Hey flibitijibibo, can also add Spore to section "6. Steam Games With DRM Removed", noticed it on the Steam holiday daily sale for today, wasn't sure at first if SecuROM was removed for the Steam version, but I checked around at a few sources which all said it's without SecuROM now on Steam.

Anyway you can see that here -

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Spore_%282008_video_game%29

just Ctrl+F search "Steam", it's under the "Controversy" section.

flibitijibibo
12-22-2010, 01:08 PM
Holy crap, when did Spore release on Steam? How did I miss THAT game of all games to be rereleased SecuROM free?

Added.

pmc64
12-22-2010, 01:10 PM
I'm pretty sure all ea games except crysis and warhead have removed the drm on steam.

bb10
12-22-2010, 01:14 PM
Holy crap, when did Spore release on Steam? How did I miss THAT game of all games to be rereleased SecuROM free?

Added.

2 years ago. :P

flibitijibibo
12-22-2010, 01:22 PM
Well, that totally didn't go past my radar at all... :P

pmc64: Yeah, I think the EA games that had/have DRM are covered. It's so hard to tell; they throw it on some games and don't even bother with others. Why Crysis/Warhead are the 2 games EA refuses to patch, I have no idea.

Dr_Orpheus
12-22-2010, 04:46 PM
I have GTA IV: Complete and I can verify that it DOES still include SecuROM despite the fact that the store page does not mention it.

bb10
12-22-2010, 04:52 PM
I have GTA IV: Complete and I can verify that it DOES still include SecuROM despite the fact that the store page does not mention it.

Thanks for the info. ;)

Hi2u! Tw1TcH
12-22-2010, 05:33 PM
Nice list, needs to be stickied for future refernce.

Screecher
12-22-2010, 06:10 PM
Battlefield 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, and BFBC2 Vietnam require an EA account to play online.

flibitijibibo
12-22-2010, 07:30 PM
Screecher: Yup, it's currently on my WIP list. Thanks for pointing it out though, the more I work on it the less I feel it's done, haha. Just means I have to get my ♥♥♥ moving on that thing.

Dr. Orpheus: Thanks very much for the info! I guess this shows how many people are buying this game anyway. That SecuROM sure is helping! By the way, you wouldn't happen to have any ties with Luiz Bonfa's Black Orpheus now, would you? :P

I think updates will be a bit more frequent again, because the hard part of the wisdoms' removal is pretty much done. Or at least I hope so *grossness ahead*
I basically spent from 5 minutes after my last post in here until now puking my head off because of the meds. Back to advil I go...

Psygnosis
12-23-2010, 10:25 AM
Does the DLC for Mass Effect have activation limits?

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 10:27 AM
You would have to check with Bioware, as I believe they distribute the DLC solely through their own site.

Kloreep
12-23-2010, 11:18 AM
I know that the EA activation system for the main game (which I believe is used for most DD services besides Steam) limits activations within a 24-hour period, but there is no persistent limit. Although I have not confirmed this, I would imagine the DLC is the same, or possibly unrestricted.

JanKowalski
12-23-2010, 02:03 PM
It says on first page, that Steam version of Chaos Theory doesn't have Starforce. What about Silent Hunter III and Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones ?

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 02:04 PM
I know nothing about either one. I would ask Ubisoft directly, as Google returning nothing helpful.

Goteki-45
12-23-2010, 04:26 PM
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1314930

This makes me think The Two Thrones has no Starforce in it, since the post:

Well, I can play the steam version, but I can't play the retail version that I own. Does that help?
This also goes for Sands of Time and Warrior Within.
My retail version is the PoP TTT Special Edition. It has all 3 games. None of which have worked since I ditched windows XP.

Seems to be referring to the fact that Windows 7 computers couldn't run games protected by the version of Starforce found in the retail box release.

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 04:27 PM
That's 1 point for no Starforce. Doesn't give a lot of concrete evidence though.

Actually, ask the owners of both games if they'd be willing to run Protection iD on the game. That'd be mighty helpful.

Goteki-45
12-23-2010, 04:42 PM
I bought all the Prince of Persia games (except for Forgotten Sands) in the holiday sales, so I'll be able to let you know when they finish downloading. Or if they finish downloading, at the speeds I'm getting.

Also BLAH.

I bought the F.E.A.R. pack because it wasn't included on this list at the time. It hasn't even finished installing.

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 04:44 PM
If it makes you feel better, at least the SP vanilla is clean. As long as you don't run any of the other stuff you should be alright. (And at $5? Not too bad, eh?)

I'll keep an eye on my inbox for updates. Anyone looking at Silent Hunter III?

pmc64
12-23-2010, 04:56 PM
I scanned them and they're all clean.

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 05:00 PM
That works for me. (Yay Steam profile stalking!)

Added both to Section 6.

jdun
12-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Great work Flibitijibibo. The only game I own that has DRM is Sacred 2: Fallen Angel. I'm not going to install the game because of SecuROM.

pmc64
12-23-2010, 05:14 PM
I got a question on f.e.a.r. If the uac prompt only came up on the multiplayer does that mean the 2 expansions are inert? I also think it's safe to say that there are no activation limits on it because it pre dates that. Since the game came out in 2005.

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 05:20 PM
For F.E.A.R., I would check 3 things:
1. A CD key check upon first running the game.
2. Network activity involving some activation (UAC prompt would give it away)
3. Deleting files related to SecuROM (other than the exe) and running the exe to see if the SecuROM files regenerate.

If any of these exist, then SecuROM is active. Otherwise, it is inert similarly to Borderlands (it's on the exe, but never really used).

Using the SecuROM Removal Tool (https://support.securom.com/removaltool.html) after running the game would also be a good way to check.

Goteki-45
12-23-2010, 08:31 PM
More F.E.A.R. questions:

Is there a way to tell yet if the SecuROM in F.E.A.R. 1 MP and the expansions have activation limitations?

Also, Securom's website has a page for revoking activations in the F.E.A.R. 2: Reborn expansion, is it removed on Steam or is it there as well?

I'm on the verge of just trying my luck for a refund. The games are still only 4%-16% downloaded and I'm never going to play them if they've got activation limits. :\

paratech2008
12-23-2010, 08:35 PM
I am curious about Fear and Fear 2 Reborn as well, but either way its only $5.

I'll keep in it mind when Fear 3 is up for sale.

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 08:37 PM
Goteki:
1. Other than the bruteforce method, I don't know.
2. I don't see any information on it. If someone has access to F.E.A.R. 2 + Reborn, please post your findings ASAP.

Good lord, the F.E.A.R. series has the most confusing DRM pattern I've ever seen. How did they overcomplicate the overcomplicated??

Goteki-45
12-23-2010, 08:38 PM
yeah, it was only $10 for the pack that day, but I'd still rather spend $10 on games I know I'll play :P

flibitijibibo
12-23-2010, 08:49 PM
Okay, I'm going to make a sublist here just to keep track of what the hell is up with the F.E.A.R. series.

F.E.A.R. SP: Clean

F.E.A.R. MP: SecuROM detected and active. Activation limits improbable, as MP is free as "F.E.A.R. Combat". As a result, the included CD key for F.E.A.R. vanilla is useless because you need to register with the new MP component: http://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1398-SLZN-5363

F.E.A.R. Extraction Point: SecuROM detected on exe, possibly inert. Limits unknown. CD key check?

F.E.A.R. Perseus Mandate: SecuROM detected on exe, possibly inert. Limits unknown. CD key check?

F.E.A.R. 2 + Reborn: Steamworks!

mrwar
12-24-2010, 03:48 AM
What about Mass Effect 2? No DRM at all? Are you guys sure?

mrwar
12-24-2010, 04:47 AM
One other input concerning Batman: Arkham Asylum, the DRM information posted here seems to be correct only about the original Batman, the GOTY edition's DRM seems to be a little different.
First, I could not find any official information that the 4 machine activation limit is renewed monthly. Even the Steam Batman GOTY page only states 4 machine activation limit (and that's it). Second, I read the Batmam forum a lot during the last Batman sale and the users there confirmed that Securom was installed with the GOTY edition and at least one user tested that the revoke tool available for the original edition did not work for the GOTY edition (and there were no revoke tools available on Steam Tools). And there is no revoke tool for the GOTY edition on Securom's website.
So, I guess you should add a warning concerning the GOTY edition...

DISCLAIMER:
Last, I would like to add that I gathered all the info above from the Steam Batman forum, I did not test it myself because in the end I decided NOT to buy the game due to the above mentioned DRM.

mrwar
12-24-2010, 05:08 AM
Here, the original post from a user that did buy Batman AA GOTY:


Old 10-23-2010, 04:05 PM #32
Malolan
[0 - 99 posts]

Join Date: Nov 2009
Reputation: 0
Posts: 16

Exclamation please read first before buy


Sorry for BAD english I speak only French

I hope i can help others french people who want buy this NICE game, but you MUST know (I think):

- Securom ASK your game s/n for activation
- NO revoking tool for GOTY edition, tool on SecuROM site for normal editon DON'T work
- NO revoking tool in Steam tools tab or Steam options
- NO link on official site and support site


-> i think YOU MUST write down in safe place, the code for de-activation (when you enter the game s/n on the securom window)

BUT the game is really NICE !!!

if other people can help me for revoking tool.


Link: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1527782&highlight=drm&page=3

I wish they would just remove Securom from Batman GOTY...

Goteki-45
12-24-2010, 08:38 AM
What about Mass Effect 2? No DRM at all? Are you guys sure?

The main game has nothing aside from Steam, any purchased DLC content will need to check online to be authenticated (EA account logon, similar to what Spore uses to track user-generated content). This authentication is supposed to be a one-time thing, but at least when the game was released this wasn't the case for everyone and so you needed to go online each time you started the game to authenticate or else you wouldn't be able to load a save with DLC content active.

I don't know if they've totally worked out the kinks yet with the authentication.

pat_pat
12-24-2010, 08:57 AM
Fear 1: SP is clean, the MP and the Expansions have securom( but according to sources they suck anyway)

Also there are many sources confirming that FEAR2 only uses Steam as DRM.

no idea about Reborn tho.

flibitijibibo
12-24-2010, 10:29 AM
On Batman: AA: The games DO have a monthly activation reset, and it is a 4 machine limit for all versions. However, the revoke tool may be the only difference, and it might only work for the original Batman: AA. If you can find more evidence of this, I'll update it.

Also, updated the F.E.A.R. sublist. (I also heard that they suck, mostly because it was done by third parties.)

pmc64
12-24-2010, 10:35 AM
the goty edition doesn't have a revoke tool.

bb10
12-24-2010, 10:38 AM
F.E.A.R. Extraction Point: SecuROM detected on exe, possibly inert. Limits unknown. CD key check?

F.E.A.R. Perseus Mandate: SecuROM detected on exe, possibly inert. Limits unknown. CD key check?
Yes.

F.E.A.R. 2: Supposedly clean

F.E.A.R. 2 Reborn: ???
From what I saw when I had it installed, reborn just added a couple of game files to F.E.A.R. 2 itself. So it doesn't come with a separate executable or anything. And F.E.A.R. 2 uses Steam, so no third party DRM.

Yakk
12-24-2010, 10:43 AM
Don't come to forums often, but good information here. Got caught a few times with DRM, now I always avoid games with additional DRM (read: automatic lost sale), steam itself is about the most DRM I'll tolorate.

Keep it up.

flibitijibibo
12-24-2010, 10:55 AM
Updated 2 things:
- Redirected F.E.A.R. to the sublist, because I still dunno what's up with it.
- Noted that Arkham Asylum non-GotY has a revoke tool while GotY does not.

bb10: Could you give us some screencaps/diagnostic information? As soon as I get that I can FINALLY put F.E.A.R. in the list properly. I'd really appreciate it!

Also, yes to what? A CD key check? Inert?

Brom
12-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Wait, does Bioshock seriously lack Securom now? Or does it just refer to the installation limits? Because I could have sworn it still carried the potentially malicious form.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Yup, BioShock 1 is 100% SecuROM free, down to the exe.

It did have it when it was originally released, but public pressure/compatibility issues led them to remove it on Steam.

Brom
12-25-2010, 01:06 PM
I find that pretty hard to believe. How recent is this? For example, this thread points out how in 08, only the activation limits were removed: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1426084

But then someone says they ran a Securom removal program, and it couldn't be detected. Still, I'd prefer some kind of official statement on it, if that exists.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 01:09 PM
This happened around 2009. SecuROM detection tools from SecuROM themselves, Protection iD, and resource watching have proven this to be absolutely true.

It is true that around the game's release, they removed the original 2/3/5 machine limit to get positive PR, but it was not until much later that it was entirely removed. These were two different events.

If you would like for me to provide another set of detection information to prove this, I would be happy to do so.

Edit: Nevermind, I'll just use the support site: https://support.securom.com/pop_bioshock.html
Steam version: Please note, that the Steam version of 'BioShock' does not use SecuROM™ anymore. Also the Steam client automatically updates the game to the latest version when you start it.

Germaximus
12-25-2010, 02:12 PM
What is DRM?

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 02:15 PM
What is DRM?
I assume M stands for mod? Whats the rest?

Digital Rights Management

Germaximus
12-25-2010, 02:20 PM
Whats it mean tho?

A list of games that has DRM or whatever, how does it effect the game?

Moklakins
12-25-2010, 02:28 PM
After installing FEAR i noticed some Securom files in my registry. edit. I am infected with securom v7 now it came from either star ruler, fear, or the The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom as those are the only games i have installed since last time i checked my registry. second edit. Ah it automatically installs the fear expansions as well thats where the securom came from. Oh well was about time for a reformat anyhow.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 02:49 PM
Winterbottom is inert, so that's good to know, thanks. I'll update the sublist later tonight.

If you want to know more about DRM, you'd best google it or read at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/, as it would take too long to explain here (especially since I'm on a Droid right now...)

Moklakins
12-25-2010, 02:52 PM
I know all about drm. I was just posting because i saw you were still tring to figure out the situation with FEAR. After installing it i have securom files in my registry and securom v7 files in appdata.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 02:54 PM
Sorry, that was to the post above yours. To the person asking about DRM.

Moklakins
12-25-2010, 02:57 PM
Ok next im going to delete the securom files and run fear and all of the expansions to see if it reinstalls them.

Edit. it does not replace the files in the securom folder but wont let me delete the folder or some of the entries in my registry.

Mac Flavor
12-25-2010, 03:50 PM
Last, I would like to add that I gathered all the info above from the Steam Batman forum, I did not test it myself because in the end I decided NOT to buy the game due to the above mentioned DRM.

I've been curious about that game for a long time. As soon as they get around to removing the DRM, I'll buy it.

jdun
12-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Ok next im going to delete the securom files and run fear and all of the expansions to see if it reinstalls them.

Edit. it does not replace the files in the securom folder but wont let me delete the folder or some of the entries in my registry.

Try deleting it under console/dos.

type in cmd in the run field on the start menu.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 06:42 PM
The fact that these files are installed in the first place makes these expansion packs active. Thanks for the info, I appreciate your sacrifice. :P

pmc64
12-25-2010, 06:48 PM
The fact that these files are installed in the first place makes these expansion packs active. Thanks for the info, I appreciate your sacrifice. :P

Or maybe he has other games that use securom? I'm pretty sure only the mp has it active. I used the tool to remove securom and the uac promp popped up again. It only happens on mp and not on anything else.

jeffreydean1
12-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Gothic 4 isn't unlimited activations. They call it that because you can revoke, but it's limited to 3 installs which most people don't consider unlimited. Verified on JoWood's (the publisher) website.

flibitijibibo
12-25-2010, 07:00 PM
Or maybe he has other games that use securom? I'm pretty sure only the mp has it active. I used the tool to remove securom and the uac promp popped up again. It only happens on mp and not on anything else.

Oh ♥♥♥♥, maybe I should read better next time.

Uhhhyeah, when you get the proper data lemme know. I totally read that as if you only installed the SP+Expansions...

>.>

Also, linky linky to the publisher information for Gothic 4 and I'll update. IIrc we were told by support that it was unlimited. You're probably right about the revocation thing if this is true.

Moklakins
12-26-2010, 02:37 AM
Oh ♥♥♥♥, maybe I should read better next time.

Uhhhyeah, when you get the proper data lemme know. I totally read that as if you only installed the SP+Expansions...

>.>

Also, linky linky to the publisher information for Gothic 4 and I'll update. IIrc we were told by support that it was unlimited. You're probably right about the revocation thing if this is true.

I have no other games that have securom but i did play the multiplayer so it could of been from that. I can do more testing for you if you would like as i am already infected.

jdun
12-26-2010, 04:32 AM
Does Loki have DRM?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/7260/

tororosso1
12-26-2010, 04:51 AM
GFWL and Games for windows market place are 2 different services. look it up OP

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 08:51 AM
Does Loki have DRM?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/7260/

Not that we're aware of.

GFWL and Games for windows market place are 2 different services. look it up OP

The client is the marketplace, but the service is what's relevant. They both branch from the same system.

I have no other games that have securom but i did play the multiplayer so it could of been from that. I can do more testing for you if you would like as i am already infected.

All I really need is whether or not the expansion packs install anything in either the registry or in Appdata.

lenz633
12-26-2010, 10:20 AM
Sorry for the dumb question, but what is DRM?

MPeror
12-26-2010, 12:28 PM
Isn't Dawn of War 2 GFWL protected? Why isn't it on the list?

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 01:26 PM
lenz: Read at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ and google DRM in news.

MPeror: It is listed, as Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War 2.

jdun
12-26-2010, 02:00 PM
Not that we're aware of.



The client is the marketplace, but the service is what's relevant. They both branch from the same system.



All I really need is whether or not the expansion packs install anything in either the registry or in Appdata.

IIRC Loki retail version had DRM. A really bad one I think. That's why I did by it back than. It's a Diablo clone.

Mogilwik
12-26-2010, 02:58 PM
So FEAR pack is on sale again, which is great. I'm thinking of purchasing it, but don't want to buy any games with DRM other than Steam itself. Is there any new information about Securom on it? Or as long as I don't use multiplayer it's ok?

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 03:21 PM
The only part of the FEAR pack without DRM is the SP. We think the expansions are inert.

Also, I see Loki had Starforce. I think it's clean on Steam.

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 03:24 PM
Double post in case MPeror is subscribed (newcomers to the list, please subscribe! :D): Dawn of War 2 is on the list, silly. It's listed as Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War 2.

Mogilwik
12-26-2010, 03:30 PM
The only part of the FEAR pack without DRM is the SP. We think the expansions are inert.

So I guess this is yet to be confirmed :confused: Hopefully someone will investigate this further before the sale ends!

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 03:31 PM
Yeah. To be honest, you're better off without it anyway, as I believe you have to install EVERYTHING at once. You're basically screwed unless you can perform black magic mid-installation.

We still don't know anything about FEAR2 though, so hopefully that will come sooner than later.

Updated the sublist (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19743152&postcount=162) to show what we're looking at and what we need. If you have the games, we'd like the information 5 minutes ago. Sorry to be rude, but we've been getting almost no information for days now. If I don't get it by tomorrow morning I'm just marking them all under SecuROM, because as of now that's the best info we have.

Mogilwik
12-26-2010, 03:43 PM
Nah, it's ok flibitijibibo. It's publisher's own failing to think people would be glad to dig through layers of DRM. As if Steam alone wouldn't be enough.

By the way, thank you for that great list. If enough people boycott those overDRMed titles maybe something will start improving.

IvanDoomer
12-26-2010, 08:18 PM
Sorry for the dumb question, but what is DRM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

It's a draconian attempt to try stop piracy that don't works to stop it, but wotks to restrict legal user experience and put these users in trouble, as rootkits installed, limited number of instalation, invalid or already redeemed key codes...

IvanDoomer
12-26-2010, 08:25 PM
I'm a common victim of DRM.

I purchased the game Blacklight Tango Down for Windows on www.gamesforwindows.com, downloaded and after 3 weeks I installed it. I tried to use the code on GFWL SSA DRM provided but they said that someone already used the code, but I never shared it. I called Live support and they said that can't give me another key code or revoke my own key used by somebody.

DRM is one of the worst things that exists in this world.

flibitijibibo
12-26-2010, 09:14 PM
To combat the fact that discussion is occurring and to at least defend GFWL, the SSA would actually be just as great as system as Steam's activation if they just skipped the CD keys and just used the GFWL account/password, using either the marketplace client or, say, Steam as the unique activation medium. I've used their marketplace before and it's a very good system, but the redundancy of some of the steps had me scratching my head for a while.

I think by now we've made CD keys useless. That's best left to retail games; it's silly with digital distribution.

CrazyTerabyte
12-27-2010, 02:26 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with you about using GFWL account, since that service is not available worldwide (unlike Steam).

But anyway, we are discussing DRM, and thus this is getting off-topic (look at the red text from the first post).

{Yotsuba}
12-27-2010, 02:41 AM
All of these games have unlimited activations, but a constant Internet connection is required at ALL times.

Someone else will have to check the other Ubisoft games, but I can confirm that Assassin's Creed 2 ONLY requires an internet connection to launch the game. After that, it no longer checks. If your internet connection is permanently lost, the game will simply warn you that it was unable to upload your save games on exit (and will upload them the next time the game is launched).

If your internet connection is temporarily lost, the game won't pause anymore and will simply let you continue on.

The easiest way to check this is to launch a Ubisoft game and then while in the actual game (ie, not just on the main menu), physically disconnect your internet connection and quit out of the game while your connection is still disconnected.

Friendliest
12-27-2010, 03:00 AM
re: fallout 3 / GFWL - yes, it can be ignored. but GFWL hotkey is HOME and it is hard-bound -- u cannot reuse this key in game. Yes, it is an issue.

re: GTA IV both my friend and I have been unable to complete whatever hoop-jumping stupidity is required to actually save our games in GTA IV, thus we have played the intro mission repeatedly only to be denied the ability to save. Don't know if this is a problem with their servers, or somehow the game is getting local accts mixed up w/ network, or what, but it doesn't work. And then u have to sit thru the stupid intro stupidity for 10 min to try again. Be warned.

also, re: Earth 2160 has DRM: I lol'ed. Hot property, that one!

pretttt
12-27-2010, 03:23 AM
All of these games have unlimited activations, but a constant Internet connection is required at ALL times.

Someone else will have to check the other Ubisoft games, but I can confirm that Assassin's Creed 2 ONLY requires an internet connection to launch the game. After that, it no longer checks. If your internet connection is permanently lost, the game will simply warn you that it was unable to upload your save games on exit (and will upload them the next time the game is launched).

If your internet connection is temporarily lost, the game won't pause anymore and will simply let you continue on.

The easiest way to check this is to launch a Ubisoft game and then while in the actual game (ie, not just on the main menu), physically disconnect your internet connection and quit out of the game while your connection is still disconnected.
Is this really true?
Can someone else also please confirm?

I avoided buying Assassin's Creed 2 and Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands because of the constant online DRM. Has Ubisoft finally seen the light removed that crap?

IvanDoomer
12-27-2010, 04:43 AM
Is this really true?
Can someone else also please confirm?

I avoided buying Assassin's Creed 2 and Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands because of the constant online DRM. Has Ubisoft finally seen the light removed that crap?

It's not true for both games, I already had problem freezing my gameplay when my connection got down.

I don't know if this onlick check occours on (near and recurrent) checkpoints or if it occours in entire game.

pretttt
12-27-2010, 04:49 AM
It's not true for both games, I already had problem freezing my gameplay when my connection got down.

I don't know if this onlick check occours on (near and recurrent) checkpoints or if it occours in entire game.

ok, so its still a no-buy for me.

Thanks!

mrwar
12-27-2010, 07:07 AM
On Batman: AA: The games DO have a monthly activation reset, and it is a 4 machine limit for all versions. However, the revoke tool may be the only difference, and it might only work for the original Batman: AA. If you can find more evidence of this, I'll update it.

Also, updated the F.E.A.R. sublist. (I also heard that they suck, mostly because it was done by third parties.)


flibitijibibo, sorry to bother you again, but how can you be sure that Batman GOTY has a 4 machine activation limit PER MONTH? I could not find that information anywhere on the internet... Even the steam game page only says 4 machine activation limit (with no mention of a time frame). Did you read it somewhere? Did someone checked it out?

Again, sorry to insist, activation limits are the thing I hate the most with DRM, I have a strange habit of playing games years after they were purchased. I was playing both The Longest Journey and Emperor-Battle for Dune, just last month...

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 08:07 AM
re: fallout 3 / GFWL - yes, it can be ignored. but GFWL hotkey is HOME and it is hard-bound -- u cannot reuse this key in game. Yes, it is an issue.

re: GTA IV both my friend and I have been unable to complete whatever hoop-jumping stupidity is required to actually save our games in GTA IV, thus we have played the intro mission repeatedly only to be denied the ability to save. Don't know if this is a problem with their servers, or somehow the game is getting local accts mixed up w/ network, or what, but it doesn't work. And then u have to sit thru the stupid intro stupidity for 10 min to try again. Be warned.

also, re: Earth 2160 has DRM: I lol'ed. Hot property, that one!To rebind the Home key, go into the GFWL menu and go to the settings. It should let you pick another key in one of those options.

flibitijibibo, sorry to bother you again, but how can you be sure that Batman GOTY has a 4 machine activation limit PER MONTH? I could not find that information anywhere on the internet... Even the steam game page only says 4 machine activation limit (with no mention of a time frame). Did you read it somewhere? Did someone checked it out?

Again, sorry to insist, activation limits are the thing I hate the most with DRM, I have a strange habit of playing games years after they were purchased. I was playing both The Longest Journey and Emperor-Battle for Dune, just last month...

Totally understandable. I've spent years in the campaign against DRM, and my insistence to boycott certain products gets a LOT of hate. Wanting a product that will WORK isn't a problem with me.

The per-month info I believe was confirmed through both news and tech support. If news articles aren't popping up, I would contact Steam support and Eidos support.

{Yotsuba}
12-27-2010, 09:32 AM
It's not true for both games, I already had problem freezing my gameplay when my connection got down.

It is true. I tested it today by physically removing my ethernet cable (for AC2) and by blocking all firewall activity with Comodo (for Splinter Cell Conviction).

Neither game notices when the net connection is absent. If it's still absent when you quit it will simply warn you that saves were not uploaded. Saves are then uploaded the next time you run the game.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:35 AM
You tested it incorrectly. As shown by the Ubi DRM cracks (hold on, it has a point), the game has random points in the game where it will check the connection by sending certain data to the Ubisoft servers. If the data fails to send, the game is dropped.

These points can be range from large parts of the story to simple interactions with the game.

If your proposal were true, even Ubisoft would know better than to demand a constant Internet connection. A simple "Internet required for saves" would be fine, and it really wouldn't be DRM in the first place.

{Yotsuba}
12-27-2010, 09:38 AM
That is no longer true. It did used to kick you out after 30 seconds of no net connection. It no longer does that. It will simply warn you on shut down if there was a problem.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:40 AM
Would someone like to second this claim? I *really* think that Ubisoft would have published that information EVERYWHERE, including their own games.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:56 AM
... Well I'll be damned. Transcript incoming.

Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: holy shiet
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: it doesnt
flibitijibibo: even at major checkpoints?
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: I did a synchronization to increase map space
flibitijibibo: well i'll be damned
flibitijibibo: why did ubisoft keep that quiet?
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: no idea.
...
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: could explain why it loaded quick as the ps3/360 versions did
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: even though it has to contact the server for loading info
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: might want to add that to your drm post
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: :3
flibitijibibo: yeah
flibitijibibo: what the ♥♥♥♥
flibitijibibo: how did this never come to the news?
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: No idea.
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: maybe it was a steam-only patch, or it was a "silent" update
steam-only patch, or it was a "silent" update
flibitijibibo: that's the last thing i'd keep silent, haha
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: yea
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: maybe they dont want to admit defeat :p
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: btw from what I recall from during the server emu days, ubisoft said if it was properly cracked to full functionality, they would remove that drm
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: I'm surprised it wasnt news though
Pyong - Derp Squad Unusual Hat: maybe its because by the time it happened, nobody cares.


The fact that Ubisoft didn't openly publish this is still baffling to me. That's... just, embarrassing.

Updating the Ubisoft information. When the new list is done, this will be listed under Account-based DRM.

Edit: Further evidence is in here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673733

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 10:30 AM
T-T-T-TRIPLE POST

I have discovered that FEAR 2 actually uses Steam as its primary medium. Huh.

Updated the list to mark FEAR 1; FEAR 2 is clean.

Pleb
12-27-2010, 10:37 AM
Cool, FarCry 2 gets added to my wishlist!

durrem
12-27-2010, 01:20 PM
So Neverwinter Nights 2 just came out. I remember the box version had some nasty Securom included. Can anyone find any info on this new Steam release?

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 01:26 PM
Going by Obsidian's usual pattern, the game is likely clean. If someone wants to take the dive, post the results in here.

number3son
12-27-2010, 03:06 PM
I purchased the game Silverfall: Complete over the holiday and noticed two Tages files in the game directory: TagesSetup_x64.exe and TagesSetup.exe. I don't know if they're inert or not, and upon starting the game for the first time I did not receive any activation notice of any sort (I'm assuming Tages works similarly to SecuROM), but the files are definitely present.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 03:08 PM
Run the TagesSetup.exe and see if it tries to remove anything. If so, it's active.

JMSNorthern
12-27-2010, 06:39 PM
Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic, which is on sale today, may or may not need to be added to the list.

Saw this awhile ago, been meaning to mention it, now seemed like a good time.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083825

Seems that the game may or may not contain SecuROM or at least traces of it, and that the non-Steam retail version does contain SecuROM I believe. Never got around to fully investigating it and a bit busy right now so I thought I'd at least point it out and throw it out there for anyone with the time to look into it.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Thanks for the tip. Let's make this interesting, shall we?

If I get conclusive DRM information for KotOR, Silverfall and Neverwinter Nights 2 in the next 3 hours (by midnight EST), I'll reveal a special surprise! OooOoo!

Kloreep
12-27-2010, 08:01 PM
I had the box version of KOTOR, it definitely had a disk check. (Funny story, actually: the disk check kept crashing the game. First DRM to bite me.)

I also have the Steam version now, so I could potentially check it. What should I be looking for? (I already let SecuROM on to my system for some other games, so its presence in system files is assured. Anything I can look for in KOTOR's own directory and/or behavior?)

{Yotsuba}
12-27-2010, 08:03 PM
Updated the list to mark FEAR 1; FEAR 2 is clean. The retail uses SecuROM, however, so it'll be in the removed section.

Fear 2 retail is a Steamworks title. Thus that too only uses Steam for DRM. It's the versions sold on GamersGate and D2D that use Securom instead of Steamworks.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 08:03 PM
If you use the Removal Tool or Diagnostic tool from http://support.securom.com/ it should point out KotOR in at least directory format.

Also, if you use the above removal tool and remove SecuROM, then active SecuROM games will bring those files back. If active, KotOR will do this.

There may also be SecuROM files like paul.dll in the game's main directory.

Yotsuba: ... ♥♥♥♥, sorry. What is wrong with me today? I even said "Steam is the primary medium."

Fixed. FEAR2 is no longer on any list since it is irrelevant.

Edit: Added a "Current Suspects" subsection for potential newcomers.

Sorgen
12-27-2010, 08:05 PM
huge help thanks

Kloreep
12-27-2010, 08:34 PM
Okay, I'm fairly certain SecuROM was removed for the Steam release. The SecuROM diagnostic tool was able to identify not only Batman: Arkham Asylum, but also my disc installation of KOTOR2, which uses SecuROM for a disk check like the original KOTOR. So if the Steam version of KOTOR had either kept its original version of SecuROM (a la KOTOR2 disc) or had a newer version put on it (something closer to what new games like Batman are using) it seems very likely it would have shown up in the diagnostic tool.

Secondary Info
I didn't think to check on KOTOR2 immediately, so here's some more info. I collected it, might as well post it. ;)

First of all, a possible distinction: I searched my registry for "securom" and found a \Bioware\SW\Securom subfolder under one of KOTOR's listings. It's just a list of strings for the game to use for various DRM situations from when it was on disc, e.g. "No CD/DVD-ROM drive found." and "Please insert Play disc." (In another subfolder of the same directory, a "Flavour" key has the value "Retail.")
I found a similar subdirectory for my KOTOR2 disc installation. I imagine it's purely legacy, but depending on your definition of "inert file," this might qualify KOTOR1 Steam for that section rather than escaping from the list entirely.

Here's a complete list for *.exe and *.dll found in and under the swkotor Steam folder:

binkw32.dll
Mss32.dll (two copies)
Patchw32.dll
swconfig.exe
swkotor.exe
swupdate.exe
swstub.exe

I recognize Bink as a video library. Google suggests Mss32.dll is a sound library (Miles). I can't identify Patchw32.dll, but it doesn't sound like a DRM library. That only leaves the .exes themselves, which of course I can't tell you the contents of.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 08:38 PM
Excellent information. Everyone, take this as a reference. Pretty much all your information is correct, down to the Miles Sound System dll.

We can conclude that KotOR does not have active SecuROM, which is good. Now to see if it's inert or just missing altogether.

Take the KotOR1 keys and delete them. Then run the game and see if they come back. Like you said, it might just be legacy. Winterbottom does the same thing upon downloading the game; it adds a registry key that's literally just "2K Play" with no information or data.

Kloreep
12-27-2010, 08:52 PM
Holy SecuROM, Batman! I deleted the "legacy" keys, but they were indeed regenerated when KOTOR1 runs. Inert it is.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 08:53 PM
Welp, it's certainly better than active.

Updated. That's one down, and even on a mildly positive note!

bb10
12-27-2010, 09:05 PM
IMHO, I wouldn't call a bunch of text strings in the registry inert.

As you can see here: http://i.min.us/idFv5e.png
It also has a titlebar string. So it's not really a surprise that it would regenerate.

Protection ID says all files are clean.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:11 PM
This is true. The concern is that the strings would be used by other parts of the registry (dependencies in other parts of the registry, parts of the game we haven't analyzed, etc.).

I should have asked for the registry entries, the custom/independent strings on top of Protection iD's information tilts it in favor of removed. It is likely that the SecuROM folder was designed by Bioware themselves, not simply added on like SecuROM implementations usually are (which is why I believed it to be official SecuROM data).

bb10
12-27-2010, 09:20 PM
Yeah, usually they forget to remove certain text strings when patching out DRM. And IMHO they're not worth mentioning, even in the inert section, because they're just that... a harmless bunch of letters.

Here's another example, Farcry 2: http://i.min.us/idFv9q.png

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:23 PM
I'll do a better job of keeping it that way. As far as I know all of the currently listed games either have it in the exe, have the DRM files, or explicitly show dependencies toward a DRM installation (i.e. HKEY_etc/Software/SecuROM/).

Speaking of that last part, any update on Silverfall? I found out that the demo actually has TAGES active, but no word on the full version.

flibitijibibo
12-27-2010, 09:33 PM
Double post: It seems Neverwinter Nights 2 was made SecuROM-free in a patch: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=560311&forum=116

Updated! All that's left is Silverfall...

Edit: Aw, missed it by one game. Since I'm sure we'll have more games to look at in the next daily deal: I'll reveal the surprise when the suspects list is empty. If you guys can get Silverfall before we find more games, that still counts.

number3son
12-28-2010, 12:19 AM
Double post: It seems Neverwinter Nights 2 was made SecuROM-free in a patch: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=560311&forum=116

Updated! All that's left is Silverfall...

Edit: Aw, missed it by one game. Since I'm sure we'll have more games to look at in the next daily deal: I'll reveal the surprise when the suspects list is empty. If you guys can get Silverfall before we find more games, that still counts.

Alright, sorry about that but I was away from my computer for a while. So after running Silverfall a couple times (with the Earth Awakening expansion installed as well), I quit out and ran the TagesSetup.exe file. The first time I ran it a message came up saying "The drivers require installation" (clicked 'OK'), followed by "The drivers are now installed and running." I immediately ran it a second time and got the message "The drivers were correctly configured and are running. Do you want to uninstall them?" (clicked 'Yes'), "Are you sure?" (Yes), "The drivers are now uninstalled." I take this to mean that Tages was never activated when running the game, so these should be inert files.

Also found some info on Sacred 2 from the SecuROM website. Supposedly with the latest patch, the limit has changed from 2 activations total (ridiculous) to 4 activations every 3 months (https://support.securom.com/pop_sacred2.html). I do not own the game so I cannot confirm whether the latest patch has been applied to the Steam version, nor if the new activation limits are in effect.

flibitijibibo
12-28-2010, 07:42 AM
Haha, it's okay. Added Silverfall and modified Sacred 2.

Okay! So that clears up that list. Now to reveal the new one!

http://steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com/

A few things you need to know:
1. Note the PRE-RELEASE SITE at the top right. That's pretty much what it is. All of the information is subject to change. Please point out any and all errors and feel free to contribute your own additions.
2. The biggest placeholder of all is the visual setup. It's basically the theme for my personal blog with Steam colors. If there are any web developers out there who'd like to make a Steam-like theme, or if someone knows where to get a better Steam-like theme, let me know. If you make it, I'll happily credit you!
3. You're probably wondering, "how on earth are updates going to work here?" Well, the way we do it now is relatively simple, but the big problem we have is that we're limited to a little forum thread. That's a good way to communicate, but we need to make this as accessible as possible and spread this around as much as possible. I've designed the site to do both of these in two ways:
A: It's its own website, not just a thread. It's much nicer to link to this thing, and it's much easier for everyone to contribute, especially with...
B: Twitter account! This is probably the biggest update next to the new lists. I will use it to give out updates (i.e. "New addition: Cities XL, SecuROM, 5 machine limit"). Those with Twitter accounts can tweet their findings to me as well if it's conclusive, making it the third way to contact me (the first two being e-mail and this forum thread).
4. That said, if this site launches successfully, the list at the OP will simply be a link to this site, the steam group, and probably the preface since it's written for the thread.
5. I can't afford a dedicated domain at the moment. If it's that important to people I'll consider other options.

Let me know what you think!

CrazyTerabyte
12-28-2010, 09:25 AM
First suggestion: it's easier to have all types of DRM together at one page. It becomes easier for users to find their game (instead of looking at 4 different pages).

You can even keep them separate, as it might be good for organization, but please provide some kind of "view" that renders them all at once.

flibitijibibo
12-28-2010, 09:29 AM
Keeping it all in one place suffered from MassiveWallOfText Syndrome, so I just added a search function to the site to compromise. You can highlight the results using the site feature or simply Ctrl+F the results.

pmc64
12-28-2010, 11:39 AM
You're going all out with this aren't you.

number3son
12-28-2010, 12:33 PM
I love the website; it's helpful to have an outside resource to make things easier to find. One note - You may want to distinguish between the core Dragon Age game and the Ultimate Edition as far as EA account activation goes. As I understand it, while the Basic game connects with EA's servers every time you play to verify add-on content, the Ultimate Edition includes all add-on content by default and does not require an online connection at all. I don't own the Ultimate Edition so I'm just assuming that to be the case, but if correct I think it's worth mentioning.

number3son
12-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever asked a Steam rep why some games' store pages have such outdated/inaccurate DRM info on them? I'm sure in a few cases, Valve and the publisher just don't care enough to update it (EA would probably prefer that people think C&C 4 has no DRM), but I have to believe Ubisoft would be happier if the Far Cry 2 page scrapped any mention of SecuROM. So why doesn't Valve do that? I expect it wouldn't take more than a few seconds to update.

Kloreep
12-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Cool, great site! And yes, the most important thing is to be able to find a game quickly. The search function looks pretty good.

Looking up the Mass Effect games, I think they may need some clarifications on them.

Mass Effect 1 is listed under EA accounts, which as far as I know is inaccurate. I believe it uses SecuROM just about everywhere, except for Steam, for which it was removed. However, you may want to note that SecuROM is still used for both ME1 DLCs, including the one you get free with registration. Even if you have the Steam version. Also, EA's own revocation tool does not work with either DLC - a lovely state of affairs. *sigh*

Mass Effect 2 does use the EA account system in many places, but I believe both the disc and Steam versions are exempt. You may want to get confirmation from someone who has the Steam version, though (I don't). However, it too uses the same DRM for all DLC (EA account in this case), regardless of what version of the main game you have. Since you get some DLC free with your Steam purchase, you are pretty much guaranteed to get roped in to the EA account system, even if the Steam executable may technically not rely on it.

Kloreep
12-28-2010, 01:22 PM
I love the website; it's helpful to have an outside resource to make things easier to find. One note - You may want to distinguish between the core Dragon Age game and the Ultimate Edition as far as EA account activation goes. As I understand it, while the Basic game connects with EA's servers every time you play to verify add-on content, the Ultimate Edition includes all add-on content by default and does not require an online connection at all. I don't own the Ultimate Edition so I'm just assuming that to be the case, but if correct I think it's worth mentioning.

As far as I know, all copies of Ultimate still have to authenticate DLC with your EA account, just like the main game. Ultimate does indeed install them all as part of its one monolithic install package, along with the main game & expansion, so you don't have to download or install them separately. But they are still on the same authentication system.

I don't have the Steam version myself, but if you visit the Dragon Age forums I think you'll see the standard group of people you see following a sale, for whom the DRM flaked out in some manner.

number3son
12-28-2010, 02:17 PM
As far as I know, all copies of Ultimate still have to authenticate DLC with your EA account, just like the main game. Ultimate does indeed install them all as part of its one monolithic install package, along with the main game & expansion, so you don't have to download or install them separately. But they are still on the same authentication system.

I don't have the Steam version myself, but if you visit the Dragon Age forums I think you'll see the standard group of people you see following a sale, for whom the DRM flaked out in some manner.

*sigh*... Yeah it looks like that's the situation. In that case, flibitijibibo, I would definitely add Dragon Age: Ultimate Edition to the list of games with account-based DRM included, since most of the included content can't be played without an active internet connection.