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View Full Version : Dear Valve, since you're listening, a few more these requests and we're done!


darkmoon47
11-11-2010, 10:39 AM
So, as Valve has fixed (or added I should say) by pressing E button cycles you to different survivors through a lot of requests, I say a few of these suggestions should be implemented as well. (All requested before, but requesting again).

1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.


2. Fix tank spawn locations. Spawning tanks at places where there are no dumpsters/cars/hittable objects is just ridiculous. Precisely, I mean wide open areas like just before the event on The Parish 2, right outside the trailer. I know tank is not one man killing machine and needs team backup, but when they kill the backup, what you can do? Attack in open and get owned in 10 seconds? The tank should be spawned at least when event is triggered in most cases and like I said before, where there are hittable objects.


3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).


4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.


5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Jockey part is now in at number 5.

prophecy holder
11-11-2010, 10:51 AM
1) Maybe a training mode would be better, but something should be thier to prevent them from running in and ruining it for everyone right from the get go.

2) Agreed

3) Sorta agreed, shotguns are meant to be powerful but not that powerful.

4) As of right now, rushing has no drawbacks. It's not only very effective against great teams of infected but it completely destroys less skilled teams. Decreasing the spawn time is more helpful.

Adding in:

5: Match making system, to sort out the bads from the goods. The chronic quitters from the people who rarely quit.

RedSe7en
11-11-2010, 11:01 AM
In vanilla, auto shotguns have 98 rounds. It's not much and I usually have to go looking for another gun halfway through the round. I think it's fair.


I thought Valve cut down the spawn timers for when players rush now?

Marked One
11-11-2010, 11:02 AM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.



I totally agree with this one.
I hate noobs playing versus.

super31
11-11-2010, 11:59 AM
1. Agreed.
2. Not neccesarily, tanks in an open space are surely dead if they follow Valve's brilliant tip of "run in and attack", but if tanks hang back and harass the survs from afar with rocks, while waiting for a distraction like boomer bile, they can still wipe a survivor team. Still, I wouldn't mind more cars, dumpsters, etc.
3. I guess.
4. Rushing is still very common after the update to "reduce it". Agree.

xxxVJ300xxx
11-11-2010, 12:10 PM
The only thing I agree with is the rushing part. Too many times the other team has rushed and I've seen no reduction in spawn time. They said they gave us somthing against them, but DIDNT tell us what.

Seriously now, just take a second off spawn times for every 50 points they get in distance if they never stopped.

iceman78772
11-11-2010, 05:27 PM
In vanilla, auto shotguns have 98 rounds. It's not much and I usually have to go looking for another gun halfway through the round. I think it's fair.


I thought Valve cut down the spawn timers for when players rush now?

They reduce spawn time now correct.

Smear
11-11-2010, 07:07 PM
1) The team isn't going to limit the kind of gameplay that people who pay for a product can use and it's silly of us to ask them. I agree with the people who said a trainer would be good. I've made a sticky request for my post that explains how to learn VS without other players.

2) The infected team needs to work together to make the Tank useful. The spawn locations (aside from the obvious ones like "Stuck in the stairs" on Dark Carn Finale) are fine. Even if all you do is put a few players on the ground, sometimes that's all you need. If Team A gets a bad spawn location, Team B will be able to go to the same location. Not a big deal.

3) I don't see what the big deal is about a whole team with Shotguns. I never have. Also not a big issue.

4) It's pretty hard to expect the AI director to know when a team is "rushing" and when your team just isn't good enough to slow a team down. Should Team A be punished because Team B doesn't know how to spawn together and create an effective slow down? Should Team B get to spawn more speical infected just because Team A is working together and moving well? Why should Team A get to have less speical infected just because your team splits up, checks every room even when you have all the items you need and doesn't take the oppertunity to move ahead after all 4 SI are dead?

I'll agree "Rushing" is a boring style of game play to play against, but I see problems with granting the opposing team faster spawns as well. As it stands, you can punish rushers on your own. Make sure you spawn your Boomer and Charger in the right locations, make sure your Jockey and your Smoker are behind, and make sure your Spitter is taking advantage of the easy seperation of teams that are in a hurry.

jesse_lee
11-11-2010, 07:46 PM
1) The team isn't going to limit the kind of gameplay that people who pay for a product can use and it's silly of us to ask them. I agree with the people who said a trainer would be good. I've made a sticky request for my post that explains how to learn VS without other players.

2) The infected team needs to work together to make the Tank useful. The spawn locations (aside from the obvious ones like "Stuck in the stairs" on Dark Carn Finale) are fine. Even if all you do is put a few players on the ground, sometimes that's all you need. If Team A gets a bad spawn location, Team B will be able to go to the same location. Not a big deal.

3) I don't see what the big deal is about a whole team with Shotguns. I never have. Also not a big issue.

4) It's pretty hard to expect the AI director to know when a team is "rushing" and when your team just isn't good enough to slow a team down. Should Team A be punished because Team B doesn't know how to spawn together and create an effective slow down? Should Team B get to spawn more speical infected just because Team A is working together and moving well? Why should Team A get to have less speical infected just because your team splits up, checks every room even when you have all the items you need and doesn't take the oppertunity to move ahead after all 4 SI are dead?

I'll agree "Rushing" is a boring style of game play to play against, but I see problems with granting the opposing team faster spawns as well. As it stands, you can punish rushers on your own. Make sure you spawn your Boomer and Charger in the right locations, make sure your Jockey and your Smoker are behind, and make sure your Spitter is taking advantage of the easy seperation of teams that are in a hurry.

I agree with this post for the most part. I'd hate to have my brother start playing this game and feel he has to go through all campaigns on Co-op just to be able to play versus. Someone maybe an fps veteran and just needs to understand how the game works (ie. pinners, sticking together, what a tank/witch/thowable does and how they affect the game).

The second point in my opinion is not necessarily the tank spawn, but rather poor map design. For example, in Parish 2, if you get a tank just before the event, you can run back down the alley way and the tank has no way of getting around other than running down that narrow alley; he has nothing to hit at them, and no water to put himself out. On top of all that it's an area that's very open and easily defendable by the survivors. Fix shoddy map design, not where the tank spawns.

The third point; actually auto shotguns aren't the problem, it's tier 2 weapons in general. The AK is superior to an AS so why nerf shotguns and not all others? I think t2 would be better if they were given a better balance and weren't as massive an upgrade as they are. Also every gun should just be limited to 1-2 drops before they disappear, not just AS.

Fourth point; spawns should just be a static 20 second, as they are in confogl. The whole placebo of them claiming to fix rushing via dynamic spawn timers is bs, period.

darkmoon47
11-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Thank you for your suggestions. I have added Jockey part at number 5 as well now. Thank you again.

Smear
11-11-2010, 09:40 PM
The second point in my opinion is not necessarily the tank spawn, but rather poor map design. For example, in Parish 2, if you get a tank just before the event, you can run back down the alley way and the tank has no way of getting around other than running down that narrow alley; he has nothing to hit at them, and no water to put himself out. On top of all that it's an area that's very open and easily defendable by the survivors. Fix shoddy map design, not where the tank spawns.

That's true, the Tank has no escape and no way around the issue. I'd like to see an infected ladder for the Tank to use to get over those buildings, but otherwise I don't really see this as an issue. Even a Tank that's been set ablaze can still cause massive dramas for a team if his infected amigos attack at the right moment.

The third point; actually auto shotguns aren't the problem, it's tier 2 weapons in general. The AK is superior to an AS so why nerf shotguns and not all others? I think t2 would be better if they were given a better balance and weren't as massive an upgrade as they are. Also every gun should just be limited to 1-2 drops before they disappear, not just AS.

I disagree, and many people disagree with me. But that's okay, different strokes for different folks. :) I would, however, back a request to see T2 become an "In map only" weapon, that appears some place during the map, not in the safe room... Just to make those first 10 mins on the street a real panic moment.

Fourth point; spawns should just be a static 20 second, as they are in confogl. The whole placebo of them claiming to fix rushing via dynamic spawn timers is bs, period.

I wouldn't object to an overall reduction on spawn times in general, thou I would suggest it would need a lot of play testing to make sure that survivors who've had a man go down aren't swamped utterly and unable to make a come back in any fashion thanks to constantly spawning SI. :)

CoelusGamer
11-11-2010, 09:40 PM
Everything besides limiting weapons I 100% agree with. Perhaps giving the shotguns a range nerf would yield the same end?

Anyhow, great thread. Let's all pray the food court is okay Valve is still listening.

cityuk04
11-12-2010, 02:57 AM
How about a sprint bar that allows you to run at normal speed when you need to. This would run down after 5/10 secs at full speed and which time you have to walk to recover it... Stop me if I am being stupid but:

a) this is already part of games like half-life deathmatch
b) it will instantly stop teams from rushing straight through content
c) it would require skill and timing to use correctly
d) it would have little effect on normal pace teams. I mean how aften do you run non-stop for more than 10 seconds?
e) it's also pretty realistic unless the survivors are trained athletes. If not in versus than maybe in realism vs?

Shift bar will do! Any thoughts?

Smear
11-12-2010, 03:35 AM
How about a sprint bar that allows you to run at normal speed when you need to. This would run down after 5/10 secs at full speed and which time you have to walk to recover it... Stop me if I am being stupid but:

a) this is already part of games like half-life deathmatch
b) it will instantly stop teams from rushing straight through content
c) it would require skill and timing to use correctly
d) it would have little effect on normal pace teams. I mean how aften do you run non-stop for more than 10 seconds?
e) it's also pretty realistic unless the survivors are trained athletes. If not in versus than maybe in realism vs?

Shift bar will do! Any thoughts?

So, hang on... Would we walk without the "Sprint", or travle at the normal, non-walk speed we do at the moment?

cityuk04
11-12-2010, 04:48 PM
So, hang on... Would we walk without the "Sprint", or travle at the normal, non-walk speed we do at the moment?

Either. I didn't have any specifics. It just occured to me that stopping people moving fast for long periods of time would reduce the power of rushing. Probably needs hashing out properly before it becomes a solution worthy of implementation.

Move at a more sensible jog speed (in between running and walking) which could be boosted to a little more than current run speed?

RVAIS
11-12-2010, 04:56 PM
y stop rushing its a valid play strategy!

prophecy holder
11-12-2010, 05:31 PM
y stop rushing its a valid play strategy!

Because rushing has no drawbacks, even poor teams can rush with survivors and nulify special infected attacks forcing them to spawn on the dime.

Smear
11-12-2010, 05:54 PM
Either. I didn't have any specifics. It just occured to me that stopping people moving fast for long periods of time would reduce the power of rushing. Probably needs hashing out properly before it becomes a solution worthy of implementation.

Move at a more sensible jog speed (in between running and walking) which could be boosted to a little more than current run speed?

Obviously you'd need to slow down the current pace of the game for this to work, in retrospect. The sprint button would only make teams faster if they also kept their current speed. I guess the essential play testing would invovle:

If the normal movement speed enough to escape a Boomer once shoved?

If the normal movement speed is enough to dodge a Hunter or Jockey once you are aware of them.

If the normal movement speed still makes the Tank a challenge and not an instant murder fest.

So on, so forth.

Nyte v2
11-12-2010, 06:51 PM
confogl

Krandel
11-12-2010, 07:29 PM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.

NO. While it's true that noobs get annoying, they won't learn much if they can't play versus. A training mode, like the one in TF2, would be better.


2. Fix tank spawn locations. Spawning tanks at places where there are no dumpsters/cars/hittable objects is just ridiculous. Precisely, I mean wide open areas like just before the event on The Parish 2, right outside the trailer. I know tank is not one man killing machine and needs team backup, but when they kill the backup, what you can do? Attack in open and get owned in 10 seconds? The tank should be spawned at least when event is triggered in most cases and like I said before, where there are hittable objects.

In L4D2, they made it so that tanks have to rely more on the other special infected to do some damage to the survivors, so there's really nothing wrong with their spawn locations.

3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).

I don't really see what's wrong with the auto shotguns, or any T2 weapon. Maybe it's because I don't play enough versus.

4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.

I think someone already mentioned this, but keeping the respawn rate at 20 seconds would be better.

5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

This is the only thing I agree with, since the jockey is hard to control.

blarg222224
11-12-2010, 08:14 PM
number 1 is just crap, but the rest is okay

darkmoon47
11-19-2010, 11:28 AM
BUMP!

ozw
11-19-2010, 11:56 AM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.

Best suggestion I've heard yet, and I can't believe it never occurred to me. Keep Versus locked until the player has completed all campaigns on Normal (or maybe after completing any campaign on Advanced) and Versus would be much more balanced, especially after sale periods.

audryzas
11-19-2010, 12:09 PM
None of the above should be in game.

1. Limiting to 50% of game without playing on expert is dumb. And wouldn't solve the problem, because you can't do great in vs without playing it. You need practice.
2. Work as a team 'nuff said. You can't fix what's not broken.
3. Yeah why don't we limit to 1 primary too while we're at it.
4. Work as a team 'nuff said. Spawn together instead of separately.
5. Jockey is fine as it is.

mattdamonsblues
11-19-2010, 12:19 PM
biggest improvement for jockey would be to allow the jockey to KILL survivors with a jockey ride off edges, instead the current condition makes them hang.

This would give the jockey the killing power of the charger on stages like dead center and no mercy.

Most people kill the jockey for a charger on these stages and further belittle the monkey man that is the jockey.

ozw
11-19-2010, 12:20 PM
1. Limiting to 50% of game without playing on expert is dumb. And wouldn't solve the problem, because you can't do great in vs without playing it. You need practice.

Nobody said expert. If that were the case, there'd barely be anyone to play with. Normal (or even Advanced) would be fair. Yes the only way to be good at Versus is to play Versus, but that really only applies to the Infected side, which has a much quicker learning curve. Anyone who can't at least beat a campaign on Normal shouldn't be allowed in Versus, period.

audryzas
11-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Nobody said expert. If that were the case, there'd barely be anyone to play with. Normal (or even Advanced) would be fair. Yes the only way to be good at Versus is to play Versus, but that really only applies to the Infected side, which has a much quicker learning curve. Anyone who can't at least beat a campaign on Normal shouldn't be allowed in Versus, period.

Limiting ability to play is still not good. Considering the difficulty of finding a game at times, that's why any kind of ranks/unlocks wouldn't do anything good for the game, except decrease number of games even more :p

Athelstone
11-19-2010, 01:47 PM
Don't forget the No Mercy elevator glitch.

ozw
11-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Limiting ability to play is still not good. Considering the difficulty of finding a game at times, that's why any kind of ranks/unlocks wouldn't do anything good for the game, except decrease number of games even more :p

Eh. No, I'd rather have all bots on my teams than people who can't beat a campaign on Normal. Maybe unlock the campaigns in Versus one by one as the player beats them in Campaign mode, so they don't have to wait too long before jumping into Versus for that level, but at least one run-through on Normal should be required. I don't see how this would have ANY negative effects on Versus whatsoever.

Even when new DLCs come out, even the good players jump right into Versus without a run-through on Campaign mode and spend half the level getting lost. Not a huge deal, but it's inconsiderate to those who actually know what they're doing and where they're going. It doesn't take that long to beat a campaign on Normal. I doubt anyone would complain if this was required.

darkmoon47
11-19-2010, 03:10 PM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.




The reason I said unlock because new players jump in versus games without even having finished campaigns first; thus ruining all the fun of what to do and where to attack from.

Mase123y
11-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Also need to add in a charger fix when they grab a survivor but the survivors behind him act like a brick wall.

And #3 I would say a big no. Limiting the survivors should not be the way to kill them.

darkmoon47
12-31-2010, 12:19 PM
A little BUMP!

Chocolate Rain!
12-31-2010, 12:32 PM
(Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn).

Not the mode that I play on :cool:

Also, you should mention a couple of the bugs, yes they have been mentioned many times but the chargers hitbox is ridiculous, also, the point blank charge bug, I really want that fixed, one more thing is the: Stop charging if you hit a spec of dirt on the floor, come on now.

Also, the hitbox for the jockey needs a wider grab radius.

darkmoon47
02-16-2011, 06:47 AM
Bump for hearing in Valve's courtroom! Thank you.

Volg
02-16-2011, 07:11 AM
You know.. that's actually a pretty good idea. The Versus unlock thingy could work like a charm. Let's say.. complete all the campaigns at least in advanced?

Although that would bring up the problem of how many people play campaign these days, and if those games are suitable for newbies. Like vote-kicking and such. But that's more of a community side problem..

And about limiting shotties? I'd be up for it. Actually, why not limit the sniper rifles too? It's really annoying to get sniped from 60 feet away in maps like DC3 with a team of 4 snipers..

4 assault rifles didn't had any issue on L4D1, as they're kind of an all-around guns, but shotties and snipers? please, just two per team -_-

.:TBC:. Runner
02-16-2011, 07:15 AM
1)agree yer but should be a lobby option not written rule - something that thelobby leader can specify...

2)agree there should be more thought out spawn points and should be the same for both teams, bloody aweful when the second team gets a later spawn and the tank is miles away becasue of it...

3) disaggree the ammo runs dry rather quickly - quick enough for it not to be an advantage plus the lack of a rifle in the team is a risk you should exploit not moan about

4) hmmm disaggree i think the spawn time should be a set time... none of this adaptive bollox, if the team is rushing then tough you should of played better and stopped then and equally in the current set up is wrong as if your yellow and orange thats your own problem and the infected shouldn't be held back after making a great attack...

5) striongly aggree the jockey is a limited underpowered si and it should have full control with a slower pace or improved control with current pace...

6) remove the dam invisible walls http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1757895 and add the proper l4d1 maps...

USI Zombie
02-16-2011, 01:49 PM
How about a sprint bar that allows you to run at normal speed when you need to. This would run down after 5/10 secs at full speed and which time you have to walk to recover it... Stop me if I am being stupid but:

a) this is already part of games like half-life deathmatch
b) it will instantly stop teams from rushing straight through content
c) it would require skill and timing to use correctly
d) it would have little effect on normal pace teams. I mean how aften do you run non-stop for more than 10 seconds?
e) it's also pretty realistic unless the survivors are trained athletes. If not in versus than maybe in realism vs?

Shift bar will do! Any thoughts?

This I like. A sprint that has limited duration and a long recharge, like BF2. Another aspect from Operation FlashPoint and ArmA is a wildly moving crosshair after sprinting, forcing you to "catch your breath" to be accurate.
Limited sprint could also be justified by storyline. The survivors are not trained athletes, have been running/fighting for a couple weeks, are probably undernourished, dehydrated and haven't slept well since who knows when. I would accept that a tank spawn could cause an adrenaline surge that would negate the sprint fatigue, thereby taking the worry over escaping a tank away.

source-maps
02-16-2011, 02:04 PM
I totally agree with this one.
I hate noobs playing versus.

dude, Valve didn't call it 'noob versus' and 'realism versus' for no reason

Ilovevotekickin
02-16-2011, 02:18 PM
to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked.

VS should have an expert mode as well, and to unlock expert you'd have to get.. experience. Who really knows why VS has no difficulty modes? (ok, realism VS is indeed kinda expert VS, but it came very late)

gatherto
02-16-2011, 02:28 PM
dude, Valve didn't call it 'noob versus' and 'realism versus' for no reason

from some points of view, realism versus allows more noob behavior than regular vs. in RVS, a single SI can kill a surv if he catches them in the middle of a horde (or the survs just suck)
reg vs takes teamwork to pull off anything as SI
on the other hand, surv is far easier to play in vs than rvs. it's more a matter of which side has the harder job, than one more being quintessentially harder than the other

source-maps
02-16-2011, 02:32 PM
from some points of view, realism versus allows more noob behavior than regular vs. in RVS, a single SI can kill a surv if he catches them in the middle of a horde (or the survs just suck)
reg vs takes teamwork to pull off anything as SI
on the other hand, surv is far easier to play in vs than rvs. it's more a matter of which side has the harder job, than one more being quintessentially harder than the other

not really, good survivors can still easily make is to the saveroom depending on the campaign and map.. it's way more balanced for both sides now.. I guess you can call that easier for the infected.. I call it BALANCE :D

also that previous post of mine was a troll post

Peegee
02-16-2011, 02:35 PM
I don't like the idea of limiting weapons - but they can fix that by having the weapons available as single pickup rather than a reusuable doodad.

My suggestion is to remove ammo piles from the entire game (even in safe rooms). Combined with the first suggestion (of just putting single use guns), you will force players to use different weapons which is more interesting and challenging.

slack3r
02-16-2011, 02:49 PM
VS should have an expert mode as well, and to unlock expert you'd have to get.. experience.

And hats!!:D

darkmoon47
04-08-2011, 01:01 PM
B-U-M-P!

wootin
05-06-2011, 04:37 PM
4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.




Dunno how old this is, but I was just about to post the exact same suggestion. Heck yes spawn timers should be dynamic based on how fast the survivors are moving through the map.

wootin
05-06-2011, 04:42 PM
3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).


And this too - just take away the unlimited guns and make them single pickups, so that the survs are using a varied selection of weapons based on what they find. This means they'll have to use tactics based on their weaponry - who leads with the short-range weapon, who covers against SI with the long range ones, etc., which is a good thing for gameplay.

In case of problems with ammo, that can be solved by putting an ammo pile at the weapons. No problem.

hedberg
05-06-2011, 06:07 PM
"I don't like the idea of limiting weapons - but they can fix that by having the weapons available as single pickup rather than a reusuable doodad."

Yeah, in public VS one guy is always front and getting everything. Not fun for the others, sorry. You can test it in some custom campaigns, where single pickup is the norm.

Rdemption
05-06-2011, 06:36 PM
I really hope this thread is never read by anyone at VALVe.

xxxVJ300xxx
05-06-2011, 07:04 PM
This thread is old. And it's a joke to limit Auto Shotties and not AK-47's. So really... we dont need a forced limit on guns :P

hvlaikyr
05-06-2011, 08:51 PM
1. Players both noob and elite should get along as human beings first and foremost, in defeat or victory. It is NOT Valve's fault that people have a despicable attitude towards people that are not amazingly good at video games. THAT fault is our own, we SHOULD be able to enjoy the game in both defeat and victory, and I KNOW your pains man, I feel them too, I hate losing. Fact of life though, its going to happen to everyone.

2. Unfortunately the problem with tank spawns, the ONLY problem with tank spawns is that it ALWAYS spawns in front of the survivors. If there was a chance the tank could come from behind, or the sides, or in front as well, then there would be a better chance for infected teams to utilize an element of surprise.

3. Surprisingly, your comment gave me a eureka moment on how to fix tier2 weapon spawns in general, ADD A COOLDOWN FOR HOW OFTEN A WEAPON CAN BE PICKED UP. This way, if a team has to wait even 10-20 seconds for a Tier2 weapon spawn to respawn, the infected can pounce on an opportunity, or better plan a future assault while waiting for the survivors to get their guns. In anycase, having a perma spawned infinite autoshotgun spawn is ridiculous period, agreed.

4. Rushing. Having markers on the map so that a crowd control special infected gets to spawn would be ideal. That way every so often a boomer, or spitter, or charge could rip into the survivors and cause some havoc among the already relentless hordes of commons. You don't need to give EVERY player this quick spawn, just one, so that the survivors don't just get to have an easy time. They SHOULD work for their ticket to safety.

5. What the Jockey actually needs is a "Get out of Death free card" We all know that the Jockey is by far the weakest and most unreliable special infected except in EXTREME circumstances where he is by far the MOST effective in the game. Simply being able to NOT die the first time you jump on someones shoulders would be ideal, giving the jockey an "Always ride twice" perk would fix it permanently.

Thank you that is all.

vonbach
05-06-2011, 08:53 PM
I agree with all except the first.

zero85545
05-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Sounds like to me people are just butthurt and want a ton of easy wins. As for the noob thing it's annoying to play with people who don't know what they are doing, but how else will they learn how to play versus unless they play? Versus play is FAR different from regular campaign play. If it's THAT bad kick them out. A team is only as good as it's weakest link. All I see is a group of players not coordinating and blaming everyone/everything else. Have fun, it's just a game, not a BIG deal if you lose, but I know it feels great to win. In every game there's a winner and a loser,so complaining because you lost is futile.

Xalphin
05-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Agree with OP entirely and most of the other suggestions in this thread.

BROfest
05-06-2011, 10:09 PM
Lol...valve...listening...haha. The only things they listen to are very miniscule in comparison to the things they obviously choose to ignore.

misfit410
05-07-2011, 08:14 AM
I'd add thanks for fixing so many exploits.. now take care of the construction lamps in the sewers of No Mercy.. . either make them non moveables, or make them disappear like cars do when infected move them around.. nothing is more lame than survivors not being able to progress with some sore losers exploit that.

MattNF
05-07-2011, 09:30 AM
Agree with 1, 3, and 5.

Disagree with 2: Learn to play Tank better. Some areas just suck to fight Tanks in, true, but that's part of the game. Even if you made Tank spawn somewhere else, a smart survivor team would run to that area anyway because it's easier to fight Tank there.
4: Valve already implemented this a while back. Anyway, in this game you get points for distance, therefore it's the smartest choice to move as fast as possible from point A to B (especially while spawns are down) to maximize your points and minimize the amount of attacks the SI get. Therefore rushing will always happen no matter what, and it will always be a viable strategy unless you fundamentally change versus.

Also, even with those changes, we wouldn't be "done". There's so many other things that need to be fixed and tweaked as well.

Steeli
05-07-2011, 10:10 AM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.

Have to disagree. I have owned the game since release and have yet to complete all campaigns, especially the newer ones. Your idea would lock me out of vs until I complete ALL campaigns, or do I get a buy for owning and playing the game for so long?

Did you actually think this through? What happens when a new campaign is released? Are we all locked out of vs till we complete the new campaign at least twice through? Also, think of people who are buying for the first time but played a lot of left4dead. While they may be new to left4dead 2, are they still "noobs"?

The solution it seems is easier and already available; stop being elitist snobs, help the noobs learn to play, make use of the vote kick if they're genuine griefers.

Steeli
05-07-2011, 10:12 AM
1. Players both noob and elite should get along as human beings first and foremost, in defeat or victory. It is NOT Valve's fault that people have a despicable attitude towards people that are not amazingly good at video games. THAT fault is our own, we SHOULD be able to enjoy the game in both defeat and victory, and I KNOW your pains man, I feel them too, I hate losing. Fact of life though, its going to happen to everyone.

2. Unfortunately the problem with tank spawns, the ONLY problem with tank spawns is that it ALWAYS spawns in front of the survivors. If there was a chance the tank could come from behind, or the sides, or in front as well, then there would be a better chance for infected teams to utilize an element of surprise.

3. Surprisingly, your comment gave me a eureka moment on how to fix tier2 weapon spawns in general, ADD A COOLDOWN FOR HOW OFTEN A WEAPON CAN BE PICKED UP. This way, if a team has to wait even 10-20 seconds for a Tier2 weapon spawn to respawn, the infected can pounce on an opportunity, or better plan a future assault while waiting for the survivors to get their guns. In anycase, having a perma spawned infinite autoshotgun spawn is ridiculous period, agreed.

4. Rushing. Having markers on the map so that a crowd control special infected gets to spawn would be ideal. That way every so often a boomer, or spitter, or charge could rip into the survivors and cause some havoc among the already relentless hordes of commons. You don't need to give EVERY player this quick spawn, just one, so that the survivors don't just get to have an easy time. They SHOULD work for their ticket to safety.

5. What the Jockey actually needs is a "Get out of Death free card" We all know that the Jockey is by far the weakest and most unreliable special infected except in EXTREME circumstances where he is by far the MOST effective in the game. Simply being able to NOT die the first time you jump on someones shoulders would be ideal, giving the jockey an "Always ride twice" perk would fix it permanently.

Thank you that is all.

This I agree with. the op needs to read #1 of this reply.

curran12
05-07-2011, 10:15 AM
That number 1 always amazes me. I've never seen a culture of group of gamers that are so completely unwelcoming to new players. And I've been around the most hardcore of WoW geeks (used to be one) but never has a group of gamers wanted new players gone as much as the hardcore l4d crowd.

Left 2 B Happeh
05-07-2011, 10:27 AM
5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Jockey part is now in at number 5.

Well, maybe the Jockey should sort of get more than one life. If it's on a survivor, shooting them only knocks them off. Or maybe damage done to the Jockey is also done to the survivor.

source-maps
05-07-2011, 11:33 AM
That number 1 always amazes me. I've never seen a culture of group of gamers that are so completely unwelcoming to new players. And I've been around the most hardcore of WoW geeks (used to be one) but never has a group of gamers wanted new players gone as much as the hardcore l4d crowd.

that is simply because you rely too much on your team mates in this game, it's the gift and curse of l4d

newbies and veterans so to speak, shouldn't be matched together.. it's asking for trouble and I think the l4d2team should know that by now :P

darkmoon47
07-08-2011, 10:56 AM
BUMP to show no. 1 point made originally in the first post for calidude.

wootin
07-08-2011, 05:36 PM
So, as Valve has fixed (or added I should say) by pressing E button cycles you to different survivors through a lot of requests, I say a few of these suggestions should be implemented as well. (All requested before, but requesting again).

1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.


2. Fix tank spawn locations. Spawning tanks at places where there are no dumpsters/cars/hittable objects is just ridiculous. Precisely, I mean wide open areas like just before the event on The Parish 2, right outside the trailer. I know tank is not one man killing machine and needs team backup, but when they kill the backup, what you can do? Attack in open and get owned in 10 seconds? The tank should be spawned at least when event is triggered in most cases and like I said before, where there are hittable objects.


3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).


4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.


5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Jockey part is now in at number 5.

1. Unlocking. I think it punishes the player for Valve's lack of a matchmaker. I don't like single-player modes myself, but will use them as training until I think I've got the hang of things. But then, I will go right into multiplayer.

However, I will of course choose EASY game difficulties so that I'm teamed with other inexperienced people and won't bother veterans with my mistakes, and will work my way up in difficulty as I feel ready.

Versus doesn't have that at all, not even just a dumb selector when you create a game that does nothing but tells other players "this game is for people who want an EASY game" instead of Normal, Hard or Expert.

So no /sign because a better answer is to give players a way to choose games that are right for their level, and that's all on Valve.

2. Tank spawn. Yes, definitely. I also favor making the tank's Rage level increase their speed - high Rage = +10% green survivor speed, 1/2 Rage = ordinary Tank speed. This gives the tank incentive to charge in and the ability to chase down a survivor to get the hits they need to keep their speed.

3. Weapons. Absolutely. All weapons should be 1 pickup. And military weapons should only be available from military locations like humvees, official barricades, etc. so that survivors are encouraged to scrounge for the good stuff.

4. Rushing. The problem there is that the Director is not challenging the rushers by creating hordes ahead. The rushers are not just outdistancing the opposing team, they're outdistancing the commons that are supposed to be in their faces.

The simple fix there is to respawn those commons in front after the team has passed through so that the team is guaranteed to have to deal with the same number of common no matter how fast they rush. Setting up a howl when x number of common are behind them is another answer too.

5. Jockey. Yes. Also it needs long-jump damage. I dropped 4 stories onto a survivor's head, which is a 25-point hunter pounce. No extra damage because it was a jockey, and that's just wrong.

Also, let the jockey "flatten" someone with a full-damage hit like that so that they have to get back up and let the jockey keep his leap timer so he can hit someone else immediately after. Put those two together and suddenly the jockey is a great disruptive SI that takes actual skill to play, but is worth it when done right.

darkmoon47
07-08-2011, 06:29 PM
I like all your suggestions, but the jockey one is much better. Hope someone at valve actually listens...

source-maps
07-08-2011, 06:33 PM
5. Jockey. Yes. Also it needs long-jump damage. I dropped 4 stories onto a survivor's head, which is a 25-point hunter pounce. No extra damage because it was a jockey, and that's just wrong.


that wouldn't fit the jockeys part in the infected team
you need to stick to buffs that fit his job like giving him more control, I'm sure you get the picture :)

KillerHunter
07-09-2011, 01:20 PM
1. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YES.
2. I don't have a problem with this :S
3. PLEASE... PLEASE LIMIT IT. PLEASE. Autoshotgun x4 ruins the game and is for wusses who can't aim.

My team: 2 Assault rifles, 1 sniper, ONE SHOTGUNNER. and i dont care if the word shotgunner isn't real... i dont know if it is but yeah w/e.

4. Sounds good.
5. Erm, kinda agreed.

mondegreen
07-09-2011, 02:16 PM
that wouldn't fit the jockeys part in the infected team
you need to stick to buffs that fit his job like giving him more control, I'm sure you get the picture :)

Bingo! More jockey damage is a pseudo-buff. It causes the survivor to incap before you get to where you want to drop them. I don't know how many times I've incapped someone before I wanted to because of the last jockey damage boost.

Koga Shiro
07-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Bingo! More jockey damage is a pseudo-buff. It causes the survivor to incap before you get to where you want to drop them. I don't know how many times I've incapped someone before I wanted to because of the last jockey damage boost.

It certainly wouldn't put him on par with the charger or hunter or smoker for doing his job (in part because of too-openness of the maps), but I think completely removing the "waggle your xbox directional controller" resistance feature would definitely increase his currently abyssmal utility.

I also enjoy the modded servers I've seen where, while riding, spacebar lets you make the survivor jump, so that you can get them to set off alarm cars and move them over obstacles and such.

turistas
07-09-2011, 02:24 PM
So, as Valve has fixed (or added I should say) by pressing E button cycles you to different survivors through a lot of requests, I say a few of these suggestions should be implemented as well. (All requested before, but requesting again).

1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.


2. Fix tank spawn locations. Spawning tanks at places where there are no dumpsters/cars/hittable objects is just ridiculous. Precisely, I mean wide open areas like just before the event on The Parish 2, right outside the trailer. I know tank is not one man killing machine and needs team backup, but when they kill the backup, what you can do? Attack in open and get owned in 10 seconds? The tank should be spawned at least when event is triggered in most cases and like I said before, where there are hittable objects.


3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).


4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.


5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Jockey part is now in at number 5.

1. i like this the most, it not being mean, its saving them from raging and understanding the differnce.
2.agree
3.hmm, never saw this problem
4. rushing can be hangle in 2 way, make players/ medkits worth more, way more then it is the walking distance,
5. hmm, i couldnt go in more detail with this one either

wootin
07-10-2011, 08:58 AM
that wouldn't fit the jockeys part in the infected team
you need to stick to buffs that fit his job like giving him more control, I'm sure you get the picture :)

No actually, I really like the idea of rewarding players for executing very difficult, one-off things. Jockey is a combo character, no question, but does it always have to go second? I use it as a first-in distraction a lot, and it works ok because it expands its role and helps the team, but these buffs would make it a much better first-in character. Provided the player could pull off the long-range leap or drop, of course :)

Edit: was thinking of the one-offs other SI can do. Here's a list:
Charger - deathcharge
Smoker - deathpull, hang pull
Boomer - ? blind all survivors, kill downed ones with horde I guess?
Spitter - ? massive AOE damage on all survivors I guess
Hunger - 25 damage pounce
Jockey - ? ride over a ledge, I guess?

The jockey just doesn't have something gamechanging, I guess. If damage isn't the right buff, at least they should be able to flatten someone with a max range jump and hop on someone else immediately thereafter. Then it would have a role as a setup special for the rest of the team, and that's a very good thing considering the team makeup is constantly changing.

Zombie'wBraces
07-10-2011, 09:14 AM
1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.


That is the problem with every player in Versus playing together, Valve needs to separate rage,beginners,fun / serious,old players,pubstompers.

No need to unlock, just a better matchmaking system.

source-maps
07-10-2011, 09:22 AM
That is the problem with every player in Versus playing together, Valve needs to separate rage,beginners,fun / serious,old players,pubstompers.

No need to unlock, just a better matchmaking system.

I agree, should have been added to the game from start

JackieChan
07-10-2011, 09:23 AM
So, as Valve has fixed (or added I should say) by pressing E button cycles you to different survivors through a lot of requests, I say a few of these suggestions should be implemented as well. (All requested before, but requesting again).

1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.

This is NOT a good idea because you're basically telling people that they can't play all of the game they purchased until they are forced to place a certain mode of it first. Honestly, people should be able to play what they want when they want, however a training mode for Versus that new players have to play first before playing online would be more than welcome.

Yes, that's a little contradictory, but it's not forcing newbs to sit though hours of campaign play time before they can play Versus.

darkmoon47
08-27-2011, 11:35 AM
This is NOT a good idea because you're basically telling people that they can't play all of the game they purchased until they are forced to place a certain mode of it first. Honestly, people should be able to play what they want when they want, however a training mode for Versus that new players have to play first before playing online would be more than welcome.

I agree with your training mode thing; that's why I had made a new thread asking why Valve does not ask in-game blog/poll questions such as: Do you play in 10 vs 10 game groups or something similar.

Because 9/10 noobs I play with in game, when I ask did you join any 10 vs 10 groups, they ask what game groups?

If noobs join those groups and play in them, they will get better instead of getting kicked in versus games all the times because of lack of skill.

And because we don't have any tutorial mode, I was asking to keep it locked or at least enlighten noobs about the game groups.

hctilG
08-27-2011, 12:01 PM
So, as Valve has fixed (or added I should say) by pressing E button cycles you to different survivors through a lot of requests, I say a few of these suggestions should be implemented as well. (All requested before, but requesting again).

1. Have an unlock thing for versus. We know when the game is on sale, there is a tidal wave of noobs jumping in versus games and not knowing what to do, they spoil the fun and ruin the rounds. To end this, there has to be a system that by playing all the campaigns atleast twice on normal/hard mode only, versus mode will be unlocked. It's not hard, c'mon Valve. And do not give me that play with friends only thing. Not all the friends are available when I wanna play casually.


No. People don't need to work to play versus. The whole selling point of this game is the multiplayer/infected part of it. Having to play through all campaigns twice on hard? Valve would never do this. Campaign is boring. A training mode would be nice, like someone said. But until then, deal with noobs.


2. Fix tank spawn locations. Spawning tanks at places where there are no dumpsters/cars/hittable objects is just ridiculous. Precisely, I mean wide open areas like just before the event on The Parish 2, right outside the trailer. I know tank is not one man killing machine and needs team backup, but when they kill the backup, what you can do? Attack in open and get owned in 10 seconds? The tank should be spawned at least when event is triggered in most cases and like I said before, where there are hittable objects.

Throw rocks. The tank shouldn't spawn at specific areas, that is boring and predictable. Sometimes the tank just has to deal with what is given to him.

3. Limit the number of autoshotguns players can pick up. I mean all 4 players pick the autoshotty/combat shotgun, shoot everyone/everything on sight, rush like there's no tomorrow and finish the round. Is this a rat race? I mean, shotguns are so powerful they should be limited as to only two people can pick up the shotguns at a given time. (Think about that 20-23 seconds for respawn when your team has been dashed by blasting autoshotties).

This would be fixed by removing or nerfing tier 2s completely, which is what I think valve should do. Limiting it to 2 is still overkill.

4. Rushing. For this, the only thing I can say is if they're moving rapidly, spawn timing should be reduced dramatically to cope them. The biggest reason for that is when they are yellow/orange in health, AI director instead delays our spawn timers to 25-27 seconds, which is a big loss for the infected team.
No. Spawn timers should be consistent, 20 seconds is nice.

5. Increase control for jockey when you start riding. Some servers have modified the cvar of controlling jockey and increased a little bit, resulting in better control than the regular (sometimes hard) control when you first lapse on the shoulders. The major problem is this is the only infected where survivors can "resist", so that they will start resisting your attempt to take them away from the group, resulting in frustrating attempts to ride them away. Now, I am not against jockey here, but the control should be tweaked to make a little easier to ride them.

I still remember when Valve decided to increase the DPS of jockey from 3 to 4, there was a good thread here explaining jockey needs better control tweaks, rather than increase of damage. Just saying.

Thank you.

EDIT: Jockey part is now in at number 5.
Agreed. I don't think survivors should be able to resist.
......

Bliz
08-27-2011, 05:35 PM
1. I understand what you're trying to do but that is the wrong way to do it. What if I want to mess around in versus with friends and some of them are new to the game, they have to go spend hours clearing all the campaigns?

2. Parish 2 was a bad example: You do know there are dumpsters to punch there, right? Even then, I agree that isn't the best place for a tank. Nonetheless, if your backup all dies, and you have no opportunity to do much damage by rushing in, fall back instead: there's cover for the tank around the crescendo area.

3. Honestly I think L4D2 should just keep its ammo count but revert to the gameplay of the L4D1 shotguns. It would be a fair nerf.

4 and 5: Okay.

Dosidataskeli
08-27-2011, 05:38 PM
3. Honestly I think L4D2 should just keep its ammo count but revert to the gameplay of the L4D1 shotguns. It would be a fair nerf.


You do know that the t1 shotguns in l4d2 are actually marginally more powerful and useful at range than the l4d1 t1 shotgun right?
(though only VERY VERY slightly)

It is the layout of the l4d2 maps that makes them seem worse.

Bliz
08-27-2011, 05:50 PM
You do know that the t1 shotguns in l4d2 are actually marginally more powerful and useful at range than the l4d1 t1 shotgun right?
(though only VERY VERY slightly)

It is the layout of the l4d2 maps that makes them seem worse.

L4D1 shotguns have an extra reload animation if the clip reaches 0. It really deters spamming, and it was removed in L4D2. This is what I'm referring to.

Qb3r7
08-28-2011, 06:50 PM
playing campaign on advanced or expert is not a good thing to train for versus. i agree to that you have to play the campaigns but not skill related, its just that you have to know the map layout and as we know the bot specials suck.

tank spawns hmm not that way, rock throwing is the solution but id agree to you to make it somehow easier. like on parish 2 having infected ladders onto the roofs of any house. so you have good long distance rock sniping spots.

they should stick a bit to the confogl settings when its about spawn times and gun limits.
limiting the tier 2 guns would be nice. autoshotgun is totaly op, personally id just get rid of it at all and alter the 2 pumpshottys more. maybe just lower the damage of it dramatically.
its just me, but id made more alternating uzis, too. more like a p90 with 50 shots and a bit lower damage and a loud sound and the known uzi with silencer

the jockey thing ist just that you need to do some like a strafejump. movement right when hitting the survivor, it gives you a huge speedboost and speed gives you control. thats what i found out on my own mybe you mean other things.