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Xalphin
11-15-2010, 02:26 PM
Get over it.







Unless you all just bought the game and have under 100 hrs it's a pubstomp.

shadowray7
11-15-2010, 02:29 PM
No ♥♥♥♥ sherlock

Xalphin
11-15-2010, 02:33 PM
No ♥♥♥♥ sherlock

Put on your surprised face, inc...

Zeratulz
11-15-2010, 02:34 PM
Inorite, some don't even get they have an advantage because they're all friends and are familiar with eachothers gameplay.

Trodamus
11-15-2010, 02:35 PM
That's just like, your opinion man.

JustPlainJef
11-15-2010, 02:36 PM
Come one out and beat up on four of my friends any time.

I've got plenty of friends in my list that I've only played 2 - 4 games with. Months ago. (I'm lazy about cleaning) So tell me how that would constitute a pubstomp?

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
4 friends =/= a pubstomp.

You get over it. Just because 4 mates want to sit down, joke around and have a blast with each other playing a game doesn't make them any worse or better than other players. The only thing they have differently I've noticed is communication - and that's because randoms don't talk nearly enough - their fault, not the friends.

Additionally; there have been times where I *just* meet someone and friend them, playing a round with this relatively new friend, while playing with friends I haven't played with in months. Is *that* a pubstomp?

Met a couple blokes last night, added them to my friends list - then played a game with them. Is that a pubstomp???

Seriously, enough with the butthurt. Get some friends and play a game or stick to singleplayer or co-op mode.

Per Valve: Play With Friends.

Xalphin
11-15-2010, 02:40 PM
4 friends =/= a pubstomp.

You get over it. Just because 4 mates want to sit down, joke around and have a blast with each other playing a game doesn't make them any worse or better than other players. The only thing they have differently I've noticed is communication - and that's because randoms don't talk nearly enough - their fault, not the friends.

Additionally; there have been times where I *just* meet someone and friend them, playing a round with this relatively new friend, while playing with friends I haven't played with in months. Is *that* a pubstomp?

Met a couple blokes last night, added them to my friends list - then played a game with them. Is that a pubstomp???

Seriously, enough with the butthurt. Get some friends and play a game or stick to singleplayer or co-op mode.

Per Valve: Play With Friends.

Butthurt? The only butthurt is when my friends reverse you and you all start crying about how it's not a pubstomp and we should go play some magically nonexistent teamvs game :)

JustPlainJef
11-15-2010, 02:41 PM
Oh, and I joined a lobby today with a team. Luckily it was TAAAAANK so I didn't leave. My team was HORRIBLE. But with a decent team, it would have been a close game. My team was a bunch of mutes....

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 02:44 PM
Butthurt? The only butthurt is when my friends reverse you and you all start crying about how it's not a pubstomp and we should go play some magically nonexistent teamvs game :)

Hey man, as long as you don't block your profiles and act all "oh, what? we don't know each other", totally fine by me.

In fact, whenever someone comes into the lobby of our games, we insist they invite their friends - we *want* a fun/challenging game.

It's annoying to see "LOLUMAD" and over competitive crap, meanwhile Team Versus is/has always been broken.

However; your *cough* 'reverse' pubstomp is actually just a plain, run-of-the-mill pubsotmp. No righteous indignation for you, mate. Sorry.

I was with one friend the other night (count em, ONE), with two randoms. Wouldntcha know it? 3 *cough* reversies joined the other team, booted the random guy off so they could invite their 4th member to "REVERSE STOMP US LOLUMADBRO?"

What you do is no different from what you fight against, while I and my mates suffer from this voodoo reputation that 4 mates = automatic pubstomp.

Basically - I see you created a troll thread to try to 'bait' people into arguing with you just so you can strut around with "umadbro we reverse u!" garbage.

Xalphin
11-15-2010, 02:53 PM
Hey man, as long as you don't block your profiles and act all "oh, what? we don't know each other", totally fine by me.

In fact, whenever someone comes into the lobby of our games, we insist they invite their friends - we *want* a fun/challenging game.

It's annoying to see "LOLUMAD" and over competitive crap, meanwhile Team Versus is/has always been broken.

However; your *cough* 'reverse' pubstomp is actually just a plain, run-of-the-mill pubsotmp. No righteous indignation for you, mate. Sorry. I was with one friend the other night (count em, ONE), with two randoms.

Wouldntcha know it? 3 *cough* reversies joined the other team, booted the random guy off so they could invite their 4th member to "REVERSE STOMP US LOLUMADBRO?"

What you do is no different from what you fight against, while I and my mates suffer from this voodoo reputation that 4 mates = automatic pubstomp.

Basically - I see you created a troll thread to try to 'bait' people into arguing with you just so you can strut around with "umadbro we reverse u!" garbage.

So because some people fail reverse because they very stupidly assume that they are all friends without checking profiles means that all reversers are the same as pubstompers.

Seems right to me.

Not a troll thread. Just tired of the common excuse that you and other people have that think that 4 friends don't have an advantage over pubs and while not all many, cry or rage when they start to lose.

Magi Kavin
11-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Someone clearly has no friends to play with.

I don't consider having three other friends in a Versus game to be a 'pubstomp'. Hell, just the other night, I sat down with some new friends for a fun Versus game. Finally, after ten minutes, we got four people to stay, and we were the ones that got stomped. All around, it was a fun game, and the team was just better coordinated than we were.

Freese
11-15-2010, 02:55 PM
Hey man, as long as you don't block your profiles and act all "oh, what? we don't know each other", totally fine by me.

In fact, whenever someone comes into the lobby of our games, we insist they invite their friends - we *want* a fun/challenging game.

It's annoying to see "LOLUMAD" and over competitive crap, meanwhile Team Versus is/has always been broken.

However; your *cough* 'reverse' pubstomp is actually just a plain, run-of-the-mill pubsotmp. No righteous indignation for you, mate. Sorry.

I was with one friend the other night (count em, ONE), with two randoms. Wouldntcha know it? 3 *cough* reversies joined the other team, booted the random guy off so they could invite their 4th member to "REVERSE STOMP US LOLUMADBRO?"

What you do is no different from what you fight against, while I and my mates suffer from this voodoo reputation that 4 mates = automatic pubstomp.

Basically - I see you created a troll thread to try to 'bait' people into arguing with you just so you can strut around with "umadbro we reverse u!" garbage.

Agreed. My three close friends and I hate joining lobbies where we know that the other team will only consist of random players. Therefore, we look for lobbies that look like they have premade teams in them. We don't know how well these players know each other, nor do we know how good they are. However, if they are all on the same team and their profiles or private or if they are public and we see that they are all friends, we will stay in the lobby. During the game, we don't shout banter like "LOL GET REVERSED" or stupid ♥♥♥♥ like that. In fact, we usually do not say anything at all. Simply put: finding "premade" teams in lobbies usually nets a fun, challenging, and, above all, a full game. Therefore, we try to find these lobbies at all costs.

Aelok
11-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Technically the OP could be wrong, people could friend ppl that suck at the game. But come on, who's going to be friends with a noob?

So yeah, 99% of the time a team of friends in a public game are generally pub stomping, even if they don't think of it as such.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 02:58 PM
So because some people fail reverse because they very stupidly assume that they are all friends without checking profiles means that all reversers are the same as pubstompers.

Seems right to me.

Not a troll thread. Just tired of the common excuse that you and other people have that think that 4 friends don't have an advantage over pubs and while not all many, cry or rage when they start to lose.

I've listened in on the other team now and again out of curiosities sake(I know, I know, the nitpickers are going to gasp CHEATER, but shush, lemme finish my point) - and do you know what I hear from pubs?

Nothing. No strategizing, no compliments or encouragements. The occasional 'you guys suck', quiet rumblings that our team must be using aimbot or hacks to lower spawn rate, decrease their weapons damage, or (LOL at this one) modified the map to allow death charges, or some squabbling amongst each other.

That, indeed, is the ONLY real advantage friends have over pubbers - and that can be solved by the public, at large, to grow the ♥♥♥♥ up and learn to communicate with one another like human beings; rather than blame their communicable shortcomings on people who DO talk to one another.

Perhaps 1 game in 20 do I hear any actual strategizing, which I promptly stop listening and proceed with the game as normal.

To the community at large: Learn to communicate. Talk to, encourage, and strategize with your fellow pubbers and you'll find that the 4-friends thing means NOTHING.

Ken the Eagle
11-15-2010, 02:59 PM
Get over it.







Unless you all just bought the game and have under 100 hrs it's a pubstomp.

Ok.

Then I only play l4d2 versus with the intention to pubstomp.

That alright with you?

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 02:59 PM
Agreed. My three close friends and I hate joining lobbies where we know that the other team will only consist of random players. Therefore, we look for lobbies that look like they have premade teams in them. We don't know how well these players know each other, nor do we know how good they are. However, if they are all on the same team and their profiles or private or if they are public and we see that they are all friends, we will stay in the lobby. During the game, we don't shout banter like "LOL GET REVERSED" or stupid ♥♥♥♥ like that. In fact, we usually do not say anything at all. Simply put: finding "premade" teams in lobbies usually nets a fun, challenging, and, above all, a full game. Therefore, we try to find these lobbies at all costs.

As long as you are straight and above the level - we'd gladly play with you.

princos70
11-15-2010, 03:40 PM
4 friends =/= a pubstomp.

You get over it. Just because 4 mates want to sit down, joke around and have a blast with each other playing a game doesn't make them any worse or better than other players. The only thing they have differently I've noticed is communication - and that's because randoms don't talk nearly enough - their fault, not the friends.

Additionally; there have been times where I *just* meet someone and friend them, playing a round with this relatively new friend, while playing with friends I haven't played with in months. Is *that* a pubstomp?

Met a couple blokes last night, added them to my friends list - then played a game with them. Is that a pubstomp???

Seriously, enough with the butthurt. Get some friends and play a game or stick to singleplayer or co-op mode.

Per Valve: Play With Friends.

I suppose your "not pubstomping team" is always using Team VS, aren't you? pse...

PeeWee1477
11-15-2010, 03:41 PM
People need to get over losing.

Hobo Joe
11-15-2010, 03:43 PM
People need to get over losing.

People need to stop sucking

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 03:48 PM
I suppose your "not pubstomping team" is always using Team VS, aren't you? pse...

No, Team Versus is broken. Period. And not only because nobody uses it.

Every Team Versus Match goes thusly:
Round 1: One team wins, the other loses - and the losing team ragequits. As it is Team Versus, nobody comes in to fill the slots left by the ragers.
Back to Lobby for another 30 minutes.

OR we could do it the other way. Public lobby; and whenever somebody comes in - ask them to invite their mates. That way, when they ragequit out, the slot is open for new people to join.

Again, we really push for people to bring in their mates so we can get a *Good* Game going. But I'm not going to miss out on having fun WITH my mates, talking it up and playing a good game just because you want to spread some voodoo paranoia around.

princos70
11-15-2010, 03:55 PM
No, Team Versus is broken. Period. And not only because nobody uses it.

Every Team Versus Match goes thusly:
Round 1: One team wins, the other loses - and the losing team ragequits. As it is Team Versus, nobody comes in to fill the slots left by the ragers.
Back to Lobby for another 30 minutes.

OR we could do it the other way. Public lobby; and whenever somebody comes in - ask them to invite their mates. That way, when they ragequit out, the slot is open for new people to join.

Again, we really push for people to bring in their mates so we can get a *Good* Game going. But I'm not going to miss out on having fun WITH my mates, talking it up and playing a good game just because you want to spread some voodoo paranoia around.

Team VS fails because many teams are lurking the public lobbies and complaining of players quitting when the poor randoms don't want to stand one hour of steamroll.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 03:57 PM
Team VS fails because many teams are lurking the public lobbies and complaining of players quitting when the poor randoms don't want to stand one hour of steamroll.

Then fix the part where when one team ragequits - more people can join.

Drowning Witch
11-15-2010, 04:05 PM
never saw this thread before :rolleyes:
i played 1 against 4 russian friends last night. i lost, and in the process broke my left mouse button. but it was fun, and i didn't rage. you can only learn from a pubstomp, because if they're winning, they must be doing something right? or at least they can pose a bigger challenge.

and lol at the reverse stopmer knights in shining armor. All high and mighty, then they rage out after realisn their reverse isn't going as planed.

Freese
11-15-2010, 04:08 PM
Team VS fails because many teams are lurking the public lobbies and complaining of players quitting when the poor randoms don't want to stand one hour of steamroll.

Losing is serious business!

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 04:13 PM
never saw this thread before :rolleyes:
i played 1 against 4 russian friends last night. i lost, and in the process broke my left mouse button. but it was fun, and i didn't rage. you can only learn from a pubstomp, because if they're winning, they must be doing something right? or at least they can pose a bigger challenge.

and lol at the reverse stopmer knights in shining armor. All high and mighty, then they rage out after realisn their reverse isn't going as planed.

Reverse Stompers are just pubstompers that want to validate their stomping. As in my previous example - there were two friends and 2 randoms on a team - and they still brought in their pubstompy friends anyway (kicking their one random so they could bring in their friends).

Kinda strays from the ideal of the virtuous anti-stomp eh?

Stagger Lee
11-15-2010, 04:18 PM
I seem to end up with a friend in a pub regularly merely because I'll boot up L4D2 and a friend will notice and follow. Rarely the same ones, some are good and some are not but it's funny how others in the lobby assume we are "stomping". I couldn't care less what their opinions are. Either play well on your side or don't.

Spycake
11-15-2010, 04:19 PM
Just saying, if I see anyone in my server trying to stack a team with friends or clanmates, you can best bet you're getting kicked/banned.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Just saying, if I see anyone in my server trying to stack a team with friends or clanmates, you can best bet you're getting kicked/banned.

I care less about that than I do stacking with all four "this user's profile can only be viewed by friends" or "this user hasn't set up a steam profile yet". THOSE are being kicked - or allowed into the server so I can ban their Steam ID.

leftforgotten
11-15-2010, 04:23 PM
So I used to play Xbox. I got the PC version when the Sacrifice came out. I've racked up some hours in the short span, also due to a friend playing on my name when she's over. I recently had two friends get this game. If I get someone on my play list plus these two friends, is that a pub stomp? I certainly don't think so even though it follows under your definition of one.

FYI: I got like 60 hrs gametime on PC.

JustPlainJef
11-15-2010, 04:23 PM
Someone joined our game the other night, myself and three friends. First thing typed was "Pubstomp?" I replied "not likely."

Here's one advantage to playing with friends. Most everyone on my team is a competent player, and knows how to communicate, or has a clear and working mic. So we won't have any crap players on our team.

But to think that we spend hours playing together, feeding off of each other's skills so we can become a cohesive unit....... Dude, you are over thinking...

Oh, and we lost that match. But it was (I think) 17 points.... Amazing game. Tons of fun.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Moreover, playing with 3 mates raises the odds against a ragequit on your own team....

Unfortunately, the more rabble rousing that "4 FRIENDS IS A PUBSTOMP!!!!1111" is done the less friends can play with one another because the new people who don't know a thing about the game pick up the cry as a defense of why they lost.

The name of the game is excuses; from pubstomp, to hacking, to 'MODDED SERVER!!!!' - any excuse to play off why you lost instead of manning up and just owning up to it.

Stagger Lee
11-15-2010, 04:34 PM
Here's the thing i want to know...

Joe Noob wants to play the game and he wants to (presumably) perhaps get better at the game. Is Joe Noob going to get better by playing people even worse than he is or can he learn by watching a team communicate and work together?

I don't practice with anybody. That turns it more into work than anything else. I just bring ideas to teammates and they bring theirs as well. We communcate.

It seems Joe Noob could learn from this rather than rage out in search of players more horrid than he is.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Here's the thing i want to know...

Joe Noob wants to play the game and he wants to (presumably) perhaps get better at the game. Is Joe Noob going to get better by playing people even worse than he is or can he learn by watching a team communicate and work together?

I don't practice with anybody. That turns it more into work than anything else. I just bring ideas to teammates and they bring theirs as well. We communcate.

It seems Joe Noob could learn from this rather than rage out in search of players more horrid than he is.

Considering the amount of people that ragequit after the first infected attack is nullified? Or when your team makes it 25 or 50% of the map? Yep.

Have one video of us on the 3rd map of the Parish. The other team had murdered us the round previous (and surpassed us in score)and we needed to stop them there or we'd lose. We stopped them with the first infected attack - A stack of ragequits followed. They were still in the lead by 150-200 points.

Mechdemon
11-15-2010, 04:45 PM
I've listened in on the other team now and again out of curiosities sake(I know, I know, the nitpickers are going to gasp CHEATER, but shush, lemme finish my point) - and do you know what I hear from pubs?


Wait wait wait...you're listening in to the other team's communications (regardless if any are going on) and I assume this is without their knowledge because honestly, who is going to talk strat on an all talk server? And you support an RQ penalty, so what, if people find out, they cant leave without hurting thier rep?

what a scummy thing to do.

sting9701
11-15-2010, 04:49 PM
I saw Mike Tyson on TV.

Drowning Witch
11-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Just saying, if I see anyone in my server trying to stack a team with friends or clanmates, you can best bet you're getting kicked/banned.

your missing out.its very satisfying to own guys like that.

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 04:56 PM
Wait wait wait...you're listening in to the other team's communications (regardless if any are going on) and I assume this is without their knowledge because honestly, who is going to talk strat on an all talk server? And you support an RQ penalty, so what, if people find out, they cant leave without hurting thier rep?

what a scummy thing to do.

lol, knew this was coming. Yes - I've dialed in a few times to see what their 'morale' was like. To peer inside the psyche of the other team. What I found was very insightful about the whys and hows on many subjects.

Research is not ongoing, as doing that is way too much of a hassle. But nice tying in the RQ penalty in there bro.

Considering Nothing was being discussed of import - or if there turned out to be I dialed back out, no big deal. I did catch, amusingly, a couple who were fighting over L4D2 (both players, arguing about chores, sex, etc). Rather uproarious.

Also: Caught a team of hackers who discussed loading up their scripts, aimbots, etc. They were quite shocked to find out they had been nabbed (and subsequently bannned). :)

bobby415
11-15-2010, 05:07 PM
Either way, I don't mind pubstompers unless their goal is to belittle the opposing team.

JustPlainJef
11-15-2010, 05:17 PM
Exactly. Those players are horrible....

The Hop Goblin
11-15-2010, 05:18 PM
Either way, I don't mind pubstompers unless their goal is to belittle the opposing team.

The problem is that even the most innocuous comments are read as insults.

The other night when the other team righteously stomped us good mid Dead Center 2, I typed "Nice Stop Infected".

I got "STFU" for my troubles, and two of their team raged.

JustPlainJef
11-15-2010, 05:22 PM
Well again, those are probably people you don't want to play with.

For most normal people, it's pretty easy to tell the good guys from the "feminine-hygene-for-that-not-so-fresh-feeling"bags.

Freese
11-15-2010, 06:14 PM
What I have found is that when you're losing, the winning team = pubstomp. When you are winning, the other team are noobs. I know that there are people out there who deliberately seek out randoms in order to stop them, but I think that the pubstomp term gets thrown around just to make the losing side feel better: "Well, there's nothing we could've done because they were a pubstomp, so this means that they were going to win anyways." Wrong.

Zora-Link
11-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Really, the only difference between friends and pubs is communication. If people are talking and laughing and enjoying the game with me, I friend them. It's pretty simple. Was in a pub versus yesterday, completely alone (Everyone else on my team had raged after the enemy team got to the saferoom, then a new guy joined), we talked and laughed while also calling out attacks and whatnot, and easily came back on our turn as survivors and made it as well, despite our bots. Got another two on our team (One who was silent most of the time, said the occasional thing) and another who just piped in every once and a while, all those people are now on my friends list. Not the best players, but I enjoyed playing with them a lot. All of our games were close (We played 3, all were close, within 200-300 points), and were some of the most fun I've had in L4D2 in a while. Were the second and third, once I had friended them, pubstomps? It probably looked that way to people in the lobby, as I have no problem showing my profile to anyone. But oh well.

And as an aside, apparently I sound like Ellis when I talk with a Southern accent. Who knew? (Discovered this with these people while joking around)

whirlmaster
11-15-2010, 06:30 PM
The problem is that even the most innocuous comments are read as insults.

The other night when the other team righteously stomped us good mid Dead Center 2, I typed "Nice Stop Infected".

I got "STFU" for my troubles, and two of their team raged.

Oh yeah, I hate these guys. I was once playing on Sacrifice Finale. We were winning by a margin of 500 points or so. Anyway, we went first as Survivors and when we reached the generator, I kept hearing Boomer groans, spotted the Boomer and popped its big belly.

As a kind guy, I typed,"As a tip, next time try not to spawn until you are going to attack." Nice advise no? Guess not, I got cusssed at until that idiot ragequitted.

Aiya
11-15-2010, 08:49 PM
Oh yeah, I hate these guys. I was once playing on Sacrifice Finale. We were winning by a margin of 500 points or so. Anyway, we went first as Survivors and when we reached the generator, I kept hearing Boomer groans, spotted the Boomer and popped its big belly.

As a kind guy, I typed,"As a tip, next time try not to spawn until you are going to attack." Nice advise no? Guess not, I got cusssed at until that idiot ragequitted.

Those who are not willing to learn from the tactics of better teams or learn from their own mistakes are the players you don't want anyway. They never learn, so they remain at newb level in terms of skills. It's no fun playing with noobs like those.

I don't mind pubstompers, unless they start insulting us, calling us names and generally acting like immature asshats. Sometimes, even pubstompers have tactics that we can learn from.

景圣临
11-15-2010, 09:32 PM
My recent aim in L4D is to reverse all the pub stomps with my friend.
Now 50+ successful reverse and only failed once.
I start to wonder whats the difference between those pub stompers and those who reverse the forementioned lobbies.

PeeWee1477
11-15-2010, 09:36 PM
People need to stop sucking

Exactly! And losing is one way to help people learn to be better. Bring on the pubstomps!

Dr.Boo.j2
11-15-2010, 11:15 PM
Whenever I see a lobby with just 4 Infected, it's usually pretty sure they're 4 friends. So I check their profile and yup, they're friends.
So I call in 3 of my friends not because I want to reverse them, but because I want some competition.

We beat them on map 1 by 100 points, all 4 ragequit.
Now you're telling me these 4 guys weren't looking for an easy game? But they got butthurt when they realized it's not gonna be that easy?

Often, 4 friends are just looking for an extremely easy game where they can steamroll the other team. If they fail to do that or if they face some difficulties, they ragequit. Really sad.

Xalphin
11-15-2010, 11:44 PM
Whenever I see a lobby with just 4 Infected, it's usually pretty sure they're 4 friends. So I check their profile and yup, they're friends.
So I call in 3 of my friends not because I want to reverse them, but because I want some competition.

We beat them on map 1 by 100 points, all 4 ragequit.
Now you're telling me these 4 guys weren't looking for an easy game? But they got butthurt when they realized it's not gonna be that easy?

Often, 4 friends are just looking for an extremely easy game where they can steamroll the other team. If they fail to do that or if they face some difficulties, they ragequit. Really sad.

QFT^^^

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 12:18 AM
Whenever I see a lobby with just 4 Infected, it's usually pretty sure they're 4 friends. So I check their profile and yup, they're friends.
So I call in 3 of my friends not because I want to reverse them, but because I want some competition.

We beat them on map 1 by 100 points, all 4 ragequit.
Now you're telling me these 4 guys weren't looking for an easy game? But they got butthurt when they realized it's not gonna be that easy?

Often, 4 friends are just looking for an extremely easy game where they can steamroll the other team. If they fail to do that or if they face some difficulties, they ragequit. Really sad.

Again - not all groups of friends are like this. What you describe happens with plenty of "reverse" teams that suck as well.

If you are playing above board that you have friends - say so, and you just might be surprised that a group will actually *want* to play another team for a good game.

cico34
11-16-2010, 01:16 AM
Butthurt? The only butthurt is when my friends reverse you and you all start crying about how it's not a pubstomp and we should go play some magically nonexistent teamvs game :)

You reversed a non-existant pubstomp. Good job.

cico34
11-16-2010, 01:24 AM
Im just gonna say that people who cry "Pubstomp" don't have any friends.
I mean seriously, if my friends are online, im gonna play with them. Like it or not, we might just be better at communicating in-game than the russian, german and australian guys you got teamed up with.


Yes, i know its unlikely, but get over it. It is a team-based survival horror game, so of course people who can understand their teammates are gonna come out on top

NewbieNub
11-16-2010, 01:30 AM
Now, now, people.

Reversing a pubstomp only works if:

1. You don't kick anyone from your team
2. Your team is entirely made out of Pubs
3. The opponent team is obviously just out to pubstomp

Without these 3 basic requirements, it's not a reverse pubstomp anymore. It's not a pubstomp if you kick people from your team because inviting your entire team in doesn't makes you any more better than a pubstomper. If your team has more than just 2 friends, it's the same as pubstomping the weaker team. On the other hand, if the other team isn't playing for pubstomping, you can't reverse a non-existant pubstomp.

Exactly, people who call in friends, load their own teams into lobby filled with friends or vice-versa is not a reverse pubstomp. It's a pubstomp on pubstompers.

And two wrongs doesn't make one right.

dominatorNL
11-16-2010, 02:56 AM
Now, now, people.

Reversing a pubstomp only works if:

1. You don't kick anyone from your team
2. Your team is entirely made out of Pubs
3. The opponent team is obviously just out to pubstomp

Without these 3 basic requirements, it's not a reverse pubstomp anymore. It's not a pubstomp if you kick people from your team because inviting your entire team in doesn't makes you any more better than a pubstomper. If your team has more than just 2 friends, it's the same as pubstomping the weaker team. On the other hand, if the other team isn't playing for pubstomping, you can't reverse a non-existant pubstomp.

Exactly, people who call in friends, load their own teams into lobby filled with friends or vice-versa is not a reverse pubstomp. It's a pubstomp on pubstompers.

And two wrongs doesn't make one right.

So what are you saying ? Don't play the game if you have friends you want to play VS with ? Like stated before, Team VS is non-existant.

I have a couple of regulars I'll join if they have a slot open in their games but if not I'll happily join a VS somewhere else. Within an hour I usually get one or more invites so we can play together and wait till the lobby fills up.

If anyone rq's on the other team we usually try to wait (we ask nicely, but if they continue to play with a bot then we continue also). And we lose plenty of times. We also win plenty of times. That's all in the game right..

Most people who played with us (or against us) liked the game afterwards (compliments all around, nice goodbyes and usually one or more friends richer). We don't all have to be jerks around here.. maybe it's an age thing.. all of us over 20 (some of us even bordering on 34.. ahem..).

marshmellowman
11-16-2010, 03:00 AM
get more friends

Interrobangin
11-16-2010, 03:01 AM
4 friends of the pubocalypse

Aiya
11-16-2010, 03:01 AM
I've recently discovered that people only scream about pubstomps when they lost. /sarcasm

@OP: This has been gone over in so many different topics, it's beginning-- okay, scratch that, it IS freakin' annoying, and this sh*t's getting old. Say what you want about friends playing in Versus, that ain't gonna stop us from "pubstomping", as you put it. If you don't like it, then get your own four and stop whining.

Mambini
11-16-2010, 03:04 AM
your missing out.its very satisfying to own guys like that.

Sure it is but for that, people would need to be the drowning witch, with his considerable gameplay hours and experience on left 4 dead 2.

"There's a ship arriving too late
To save a drowning witch
She was swimmin' along
Tryin' to keep a date
With a merchant marine
Who told her he was really rich
But it doesn't matter no more...
She's on the ocean floor"

- Frank Zappa

Drowning Witch
11-16-2010, 03:18 AM
damn frank zappa stole my nickname and used it for his awesome 12 minute guitar squeal :p

Choreamajor
11-16-2010, 03:24 AM
All I can say is that if me and my friends who I usually play with enter a versus game together it's hardly a pubstomp, even though we are nearing 100 hours of gametime now.

We usually play campaign - versus only on very very rare occasions, so as Infected team we fail pretty hard.

Just saying that friends playing together doesn't make a pubstomp.

What I absolutely hate is four friends entering a server, and once they realize they are the better team, insult the sh*t out of you. I mean come on, if we are SOO NOOBISH you should look for a team that is actally a challenge for you, I am inclinced to think you would have more fun that way, too :V

godrifle
11-16-2010, 04:18 AM
Does 4 friends = a pubstomp?

The average gamer on the 4 friends team is:
-Able to use mics.
-Able to display at least SOME teamwork
-Past a certain skill barrier
-Has some/all of these qualities in order to be friended in the first place.

The average gamer on a pub team:
-Might be a rager
-Might be someone who doesn't pass the skill barrier needed to be friended.
-Might be a person with no mic, or not even literate in English.
-Has never coordinated with your pub team before
-Might be a total prick/griefer

Hop Goblin, I don't care that you've had good and balanced games against pubs. On a pub team someone might be one of the above. We could luckily find a team with full mics and great teamwork, but that's rare in pub settings.

It only takes ONE. In a 4v4 game, it only takes ONE guy to justify an unfair point lead for that pubstomping team of yours. If this guy has rage, we get AI. If the guy has no skills, we lost our tank round. If this guy has no mic, we had no idea he was being pulled until it was too late. This one guy starts a point deficit, a rage, and then a chain rage.

It only takes one, and that's something your friends team is immune to! The very principal of a selected team against a random team is unfair. You say you want a "good" game? Why don't you hit the random button and go against your friends some time?

That's why when you enter a server, people call for random teams. I want a chance to have good players on my team, and I want a chance for your team to have bad players; it's only fair.

JohannasGarden
11-16-2010, 04:18 AM
I try to play with at least one friend because I suck at Versus and am an emotional wimp. I'm fine with losing, with most insults from the other team, but rising frustration from my team mates will often have me in tears by the end of the game. And there actually are people who add me and invite me back besides the fact that they have to be really good or me really lucky that night in order to have a chance of winning. There are all kinds of particulars people come to prefer in this game--there are many who'd rather lose with people with mics, especially if they laugh at stuff, rather than win in silence, for example.

I play better and learn more if I'm with someone with a mic who is not easily frustrated and is willing to do a lot of hand holding to help me understand what others don't need to be told. This can extend to telling me when to spawn, where to find the ladder to get to the top of the room everyone is already on, etc. Many people hate having to do this AND hate seeing me fail.

I don't mind another group of friends coming in to "reverse" us, though I don't think they should self-righteously think they have a right to be a jerk, especially to randoms on their team, in order to do this.

Choreamajor
11-16-2010, 04:24 AM
Wait I am actually a little confused about the intent for this thread.
OP, you said that four friends are a pubstomp. What are you trying to say with this? Is it unfair in you opinion or do you think that the pubbers who encounter a team of friends should just "deal with it"?
It's not entirely clear from your post.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 04:50 AM
Wait I am actually a little confused about the intent for this thread.
OP, you said that four friends are a pubstomp. What are you trying to say with this? Is it unfair in you opinion or do you think that the pubbers who encounter a team of friends should just "deal with it"?
It's not entirely clear from your post.

I'd think he was stating that having 4 friends is a pub stomp and is unfair to the other team.

"get over it"
He's telling you to get over the fact that it's true (his words) and that any team of friends is unfairly abusing the public versus system into their odds of winning the game.

But that's my opinion of what his opinion is. Seems clear enough to me.

misfit410
11-16-2010, 05:08 AM
If you suck, the players on the other team being good is an advantage, whether they know each other or not.

Stagger Lee
11-16-2010, 05:31 AM
If you suck, the players on the other team being good is an advantage, whether they know each other or not.


It's really as simple as this guy put it.

Tired of getting beat? Learn to play better. Communicate with your team. That doesn't mean try and order them around. That puts people off also.
Instead, state what you plan to do and then they can follow up with a complimenting attack.
Example: "OK, I have the Charger. I'm going to charge them down the stairs." Another guy who has a Spitter now knows where you plan to hit them and can be ready to spit acid at the bottom of the stairs.

That one little bit of communication is all the difference in the world.

It's little things like this that immediately make you a better player

SaintzJoey
11-16-2010, 05:50 AM
It's been said before in the thread and in other threads- Communication is key, sure you can play good without it but it helps in 9 out of every 10 situations, few seconds to prepare and attack as infected or a route+ game plan for the tank as survivors etc.

If you join a random game and the other 3 guys are competent players AND use mics, you are gonna be ok and probably do well against if not roll the other team, tbh I have played with friends lots of times and it can cause a lot of trouble if a friend gets angry at another one, or does a stupid thing, its more personal and you know you cant vote your friend off if hes messing the game up or having a bad day so it means 1 + hour with them - personally I don't let it get to me as its not all about winning but I know people that it bugs and that spreads bad vibes through the team leading to fail!

Its not about friends, its about being good at the game, using communication and being a teamplayer, if every public player brought those skills to every game there would be no reason for all these subjects, unfortunately you get : People that don't use mic , people that can't speak your language (mostly a Euro problem), people that are new to the game, people that want to lead and do things that the other 3 don't want to causing a split + possible death etc.

Tbh I don't blame people for playing with friends if they are faced with the above problems in public games - its not a crime to play with friends and friends are not teams, even if they know each other they may only play 3-4 games of L4D2 together a week which is the complete opposite of a "team" playing competitively and practising maps + attacks for countless hours.

There is a difference so don't be a sheep and think that because the four people in your lobby prefer to play together to enjoy the game or to have a laugh that they are the most uber pro players out there that want an easy win on their stats.

hypernation
11-16-2010, 06:16 AM
Unless 4 better players who are friends join the lobby, then it's a reverse pubstomp.

natedogXVI
11-16-2010, 06:21 AM
Just popping in to say that, like nearly everything ever, this is not a 100% true statement 100% of the time. There is some gray area to account for.

For example, of the 34 friends on my friends list, only 3-4 are people I know in real life. Only 1 of these even semi-regularly plays on Steam. The rest, are people that I've played one or two good matches with in L4D, L4D2, and occasionally TF2.

If I was in a Versus match, playing with 3 of the people I actually know in real life, we'd get out asses handed to us. Even if we all had mics, and tried to coordinate everything, we'd blow. Because only one of them has played even close to a respectable amount, and none of them are good at Versus. Yet according to your all-emcompassing rule, this would still be us pubstomping (or at least trying too).

Even if I SOMEHOW put together a team consisting of myself and 3 Steam friends who I made playing L4D Versus (which I couldn't, seeing as out of however many are online at any time, rarely are 3 playing the same game), we still probably wouldn't be doing any kind of amazing job, due to likely conflicting personalities, different ideas on what should be done, maybe somebody would rage because they didn't like the level or had been playing a couple hours already and got bored or whatever. But according to OP, this is us trying to pubstomp.

I'm not saying that EVERY or even MOST of the time 4 Steam friends are in a lobby, they aren't trying to pull something. But you have to understand that you just can't say "ALL" in a situation like this. And even if they all were "pubstomping" in the sense that they knew they'd probably do better than their opposition, what do you suggest they do if they want to play together? Most of them likely aren't trying to be "Pro" but rather play together for fun, so they aren't going to go to some higher level/difficulty server. And they can't use the Team Versus function, since there's basically no one in there and you can sit for and hour and never get a lobby together.

Much like rage-quitting, things like this are not definite. And so a solution to them as a problem, when it is a problem, is hard to come by. I mean, you can't tell people NOT to play with their friends unless they only play with 2-3 on the team, or a full 8 person game of friends. There's practically no matchmaking function in the game, and even if you could do that to pit a good team of friends against players who can handle them, the friends may have wildly different stats, and there's no way to assess their teamwork abilities and accurately predict their performance against someone.

/morningrant

godrifle
11-16-2010, 06:27 AM
/morningrant

Sure, it's not 100% true all the time. Nobody said that a 4 friend team is guaranteed to win.

It's just the likelihood of better players in a friends team versus a pub team.

If I had a random friends team and pub team playing, which one would you bet on to win? I can't believe that I'm going to state my opinion as fact, but the fact is, having a friends only team is selective towards good players, while pub is random. I could even argue that people that play longer tend to have more friends, thus tend to play on friends only teams more.

I'm tired of hearing "It's not definite" or "If you suck, you'll get pub stomped". How about some real arguments in favor of this pub team?

Freese
11-16-2010, 06:46 AM
Sure, it's not 100% true all the time. Nobody said that a 4 friend team is guaranteed to win.

It's just the likelihood of better players in a friends team versus a pub team.

If I had a random friends team and pub team playing, which one would you bet on to win? I can't believe that I'm going to state my opinion as fact, but the fact is, having a friends only team is selective towards good players, while pub is random. I could even argue that people that play longer tend to have more friends, thus tend to play on friends only teams more.

I'm tired of hearing "It's not definite" or "If you suck, you'll get pub stomped". How about some real arguments in favor of this pub team?

What's wrong with wanting to find three other competent, like-minded players? Now, I don't think that teams of friends should only seek out easy stomps, but there's nothing wrong with playing with friends. If it weren't for my left 4 dead friends, I would have left this game by now. I have played with at least 1-2 friends on my team since May. I just cannot imagine going back to playing with random people. My friends and I only play in premade lobbies. We hate going against random pubs because the games are not fun and they do not last very long.

Again, if you're losing, the other team is automatically a "pubstomp."

If you're winning, the other team is a "fail pubstomp" or "noobs."

People want to make themselves feel better for losing, and they want to make themselves feel even better when they win: "OMG Guys. We beat a PUBSTOMP! Those guys are FAIL!"

Pubstomp does not equal guaranteed win every time.....

Optics233
11-16-2010, 06:59 AM
And your point being? People have the right to play the game together.

I love pub stompers. Me and my team reverse them and it's good times when they get all mad and ♥♥♥♥.

Thatsright19
11-16-2010, 07:00 AM
Being on a friends list doesn't mean you are a good player. It means you know how to use a friends list.

People who pubstomp are exactly the same as the ragequitters that they hate. They stack the deck to win, and if they run into actual good players who beat them, their group leaves. This game is nothing but people looking for someone worse because that's one of the only ways this game is fun. When players are balanced or good on both teams, the terrible gameplay balance between infected/survivers and the horrible scoring system stands out even more.

Also, how can anyone possibly think presets vs randoms is NOT a tremendous advantage? If you don't win at least 80%+ of your preset games vs randoms, you are terrible individual players.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 07:08 AM
What's wrong with wanting to find three other competent, like-minded players? Now, I don't think that teams of friends should only seek out easy stomps, but there's nothing wrong with playing with friends. If it weren't for my left 4 dead friends, I would have left this game by now. I have played with at least 1-2 friends on my team since May. I just cannot imagine going back to playing with random people. My friends and I only play in premade lobbies. We hate going against random pubs because the games are not fun and they do not last very long.

Again, if you're losing, the other team is automatically a "pubstomp."

If you're winning, the other team is a "fail pubstomp" or "noobs."

People want to make themselves feel better for losing, and they want to make themselves feel even better when they win: "OMG Guys. We beat a PUBSTOMP! Those guys are FAIL!"

Pubstomp does not equal guaranteed win every time.....

There's nothing wrong with wanting to play with your friends, just know that if you're doing it against a pub team, the odds are in your favor.

Seeing that you guys are dead set on "Presets does not equal guaranteed win every time....." (which I agree)

How about we compromise and agree that instead of "4 Friends = a pubstomp"
... and change it to "4 Friends = In favor of winning"

whirlmaster
11-16-2010, 07:13 AM
I don't see what's wrong with playing with my friends. Why should I suffer from heart failures against mutes, micspammers, trash talkers, people who abuse game mechanics(HEY GUYS! WE HAVE A DEFIB! I'LL JUST JUMP DOWN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND FLOOR AND YOU GUYS CAN DEFIB ME! Tip: It doesn't work) and just generally idiots who attack on their own.

No, we do not ragequit the moment we lose, we encourage the others to bring in their friends too and we don't talk trash about the other team if we're winning. Is that a pubstomp then?

princos70
11-16-2010, 07:17 AM
(...)

People who pubstomp are exactly the same as the ragequitters that they hate.

(..)


How they dare to quit on us? Why? we are just a group of four friends that play together and use same language, yet still that bunch of randoms insist on quitting! Are they mad? Learn 2 Play noobs!!!

Pubstompers exactly the same as hated ragequitters... yeah, sure.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 07:22 AM
I don't see what's wrong with playing with my friends. Why should I suffer from heart failures against mutes, micspammers, trash talkers, people who abuse game mechanics(HEY GUYS! WE HAVE A DEFIB! I'LL JUST JUMP DOWN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND FLOOR AND YOU GUYS CAN DEFIB ME! Tip: It doesn't work) and just generally idiots who attack on their own.

No, we do not ragequit the moment we lose, we encourage the others to bring in their friends too and we don't talk trash about the other team if we're winning. Is that a pubstomp then?

Would you rather dominate a team that has ragers and eventually quits before the match is over, or press random, be with just one of your friends and have a balanced GOOD game against your other two friends?

I'm guessing the former.

Thatsright19
11-16-2010, 07:24 AM
How they dare to quit on us? Why? we are just a group of four friends that play together and use same language, yet still that bunch of randoms insist on quitting! Are they mad? Learn 2 Play noobs!!!

Pubstompers exactly the same as hated ragequitters... yeah, sure.

Nice quote mine without taking the second sentence that explains what I meant...

They share similar mindsets. Rampent quitters quit any game they lose...these are the type of players who create pubstomp groups to set up imbalnces where they can win all of the time. They are the same type of player. Not good enough to win, but they expect to win everytime. Presets create even more quits than just a regular random group....but make no mistake...if they (the 3 or w/e friends) get matched up against good players or another team by chance....they quit just like the people that they hate the instant they see a challenge. What it boils down to is everyone is seeking a winning game, and it's why playing past stage 2, or playing a finale, is next to impossible.

The point is, the player base is god awful, and Valve does absolutely nothing to correct the behavior....so good luck.

IcePOP4wHO
11-16-2010, 07:24 AM
if you play with 3 friends and you don't win, you need new friends.

misfit410
11-16-2010, 07:27 AM
Would you rather dominate a team that has ragers and eventually quits before the match is over, or press random, be with just one of your friends and have a balanced GOOD game against your other two friends?

I'm guessing the former.

My honest answer here is option a... Because my intentions are not to stomp noobs, but rather to catch up with my friends while we play together.... The ideal scenario is that we get reversed so an intense game follows.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 07:31 AM
My honest answer here is option a... Because my intentions are not to stomp noobs, but rather to catch up with my friends while we play together.... The ideal scenario is that we get reversed so an intense game follows.

Right, and good luck finding a reverse while you own it up and just add to the ragequit problem. I mean it's so bad already why does it matter right?

For me, anytime I'm winning, even with friends, I'll switch to the losers side to spice things up. It's usually not enough to make a difference, but I've made the game a little more fun for everyone.

Kernal Cupcakez
11-16-2010, 07:34 AM
Hey man, as long as you don't block your profiles and act all "oh, what? we don't know each other", totally fine by me.

In fact, whenever someone comes into the lobby of our games, we insist they invite their friends - we *want* a fun/challenging game.

It's annoying to see "LOLUMAD" and over competitive crap, meanwhile Team Versus is/has always been broken.

However; your *cough* 'reverse' pubstomp is actually just a plain, run-of-the-mill pubsotmp. No righteous indignation for you, mate. Sorry.

I was with one friend the other night (count em, ONE), with two randoms. Wouldntcha know it? 3 *cough* reversies joined the other team, booted the random guy off so they could invite their 4th member to "REVERSE STOMP US LOLUMADBRO?"

What you do is no different from what you fight against, while I and my mates suffer from this voodoo reputation that 4 mates = automatic pubstomp.

Basically - I see you created a troll thread to try to 'bait' people into arguing with you just so you can strut around with "umadbro we reverse u!" garbage.

Didnt you hear? Even if you are volunteering at a shelter and playing games with the kids there, or maybe even your kids, this is a pubstomp.
Like when you gather some of your friends to play some Basketball at the park, regardless of thier skill level you are friends so you have an unfair advantage that everyone must go out of thier way to punish you for.

This is why vigilantism is something that is encouraged, because run of the mill avergae joe is more than qualified to tell you what you are doing and administer punishment for this.

Just playing. =) We both know this reverse pub stomp is just an excuse for people to pubstomp guilt free.

Kernal Cupcakez
11-16-2010, 07:41 AM
I've listened in on the other team now and again out of curiosities sake(I know, I know, the nitpickers are going to gasp CHEATER, but shush, lemme finish my point) - and do you know what I hear from pubs?

Nothing. No strategizing, no compliments or encouragements. The occasional 'you guys suck', quiet rumblings that our team must be using aimbot or hacks to lower spawn rate, decrease their weapons damage, or (LOL at this one) modified the map to allow death charges, or some squabbling amongst each other.

That, indeed, is the ONLY real advantage friends have over pubbers - and that can be solved by the public, at large, to grow the ♥♥♥♥ up and learn to communicate with one another like human beings; rather than blame their communicable shortcomings on people who DO talk to one another.

Perhaps 1 game in 20 do I hear any actual strategizing, which I promptly stop listening and proceed with the game as normal.

To the community at large: Learn to communicate. Talk to, encourage, and strategize with your fellow pubbers and you'll find that the 4-friends thing means NOTHING.

Hate to comment on another post of yorus right away, however this is so true. Id ont know how many times Ive been the odd man out (friend number 5) and won the match with three randoms, but on the other side of the spectrum I dont know how many times ive been kicked by the randoms when stuff gets tough. You just have to brush it off and move forward, quickly there are zombies chasing you.

jasminethecat
11-16-2010, 07:43 AM
Anyone who thinks playing with friends constitutes a reverse pubstomp is a freaking idiot.

Pubstomp - anytime 4 friends beat up on random players (people who do not know each other).

Reverse Pubstomp - 4 randoms beating 4 friends. Period. It is not one group of friends beating another. It is not a group of friends joining a lobby late and winning.


Pubstomp doesn't mean that 4 friends are playing randoms, it only applies when they are kicking the crap out of randoms. A close match isn't a pubstomp.

Have any of you ever added a person to your friends list who doesn't compliment your playing style? Ever add someone who refuses to communicate or go along with a strategy? No...friends are people who talk and play nice with you, and as such do give you an advantage. But it isn't cheating and you shouldn't be punished for having friends.

If you are beating up on the other team because you're playing with friends, you should really look for more skilled opponents. And you shouldn't go in yelling "pubstomp!" "reverse stomp!" all freaking day either.

THE SOLUTION IS FOR THE PLAYERS TO EACH BE THE BETTER PERSON. IF WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS, THEN RAGING WILL DECLINE AND WE'LL ALL ENJOY BETTER MATCHES. DON'T BE BAITED BY LOSERS WHO TRY AND INCITE ANGER FROM YOU.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 07:46 AM
THE SOLUTION IS FOR THE PLAYERS TO EACH BE THE BETTER PERSON. IF WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS, THEN RAGING WILL DECLINE AND WE'LL ALL ENJOY BETTER MATCHES. DON'T BE BAITED BY LOSERS WHO TRY AND INCITE ANGER FROM YOU.

Nice try (and definitely in the right place), but the real solution is for Valve to do something.

Valve. Do something.

prophecy holder
11-16-2010, 07:47 AM
I don't see what's wrong with playing with my friends. Why should I suffer from heart failures against mutes, micspammers, trash talkers, people who abuse game mechanics(HEY GUYS! WE HAVE A DEFIB! I'LL JUST JUMP DOWN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND FLOOR AND YOU GUYS CAN DEFIB ME! Tip: It doesn't work) and just generally idiots who attack on their own.

No, we do not ragequit the moment we lose, we encourage the others to bring in their friends too and we don't talk trash about the other team if we're winning. Is that a pubstomp then?

4 friends going against a bunch of randoms which usually have no communication skills/strategy and will thus be steam rolled. Then once you destroy them you urge them to bring friends in which will result in people getting kicked and ragequitting.

Yah, I call that a pubstomp.

princos70
11-16-2010, 07:49 AM
Anyone who thinks playing with friends constitutes a reverse pubstomp is a freaking idiot.

Pubstomp - anytime 4 friends beat up on random players (people who do not know each other).

Reverse Pubstomp - 4 randoms beating 4 friends. Period. It is not one group of friends beating another. It is not a group of friends joining a lobby late and winning.


Pubstomp doesn't mean that 4 friends are playing randoms, it only applies when they are kicking the crap out of randoms. A close match isn't a pubstomp.

Have any of you ever added a person to your friends list who doesn't compliment your playing style? Ever add someone who refuses to communicate or go along with a strategy? No...friends are people who talk and play nice with you, and as such do give you an advantage. But it isn't cheating and you shouldn't be punished for having friends.

If you are beating up on the other team because you're playing with friends, you should really look for more skilled opponents. And you shouldn't go in yelling "pubstomp!" "reverse stomp!" all freaking day either.

THE SOLUTION IS FOR THE PLAYERS TO EACH BE THE BETTER PERSON. IF WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS, THEN RAGING WILL DECLINE AND WE'LL ALL ENJOY BETTER MATCHES. DON'T BE BAITED BY LOSERS WHO TRY AND INCITE ANGER FROM YOU.

The solution is, if you have three friends online, use Team VS.

Forcing the result (or at least trying to do it) playing friends vs randoms is what makes Team VS fails.

cajun911
11-16-2010, 08:04 AM
Someone joined our game the other night, myself and three friends. First thing typed was "Pubstomp?" I replied "not likely."

Here's one advantage to playing with friends. Most everyone on my team is a competent player, and knows how to communicate, or has a clear and working mic. So we won't have any crap players on our team.

But to think that we spend hours playing together, feeding off of each other's skills so we can become a cohesive unit....... Dude, you are over thinking...

Oh, and we lost that match. But it was (I think) 17 points.... Amazing game. Tons of fun.

Oh yeah, that was me. It did turn out to be a great game. I always think the worst when I see 4 people on the same team waiting for "victims". But in some cases you end up with an awesome team of 4 randoms, so you never know.

jasminethecat
11-16-2010, 08:27 AM
The solution is, if you have three friends online, use Team VS.

Forcing the result (or at least trying to do it) playing friends vs randoms is what makes Team VS fails.

Sometimes I have 2 friends, sometimes i have 4 or 5. What then? You'll apparently still cry pubstomp and ignore the fact that team versus doesn't work well (if at all). And one of my closest friends has a bad router which fails a lot. If she is playing, i cannot play team versus even with the magic number of 4.



Nice try (and definitely in the right place), but the real solution is for Valve to do something.

Valve. Do something.

Valve has repeatedly told us to play with friends. Valve cannot fix stupid. I am not calling you stupid, i am calling the idea that you can fix human (bad) behavior stupid. What can you do programatically to fix this? Please think about it and respond with an idea of some sort. My post asking the community to be "better people" is an action. Saying "valve do something" isn't helpful at all.


Many of you miss the point of defining these terms and will never "get it". Screw Learn2Play, try Learn2Read.
If you are not STOMPing the other team, it isn't a pubSTOMP.
Friends playing together is not a criminal act, even against randoms. Friends beating up on pubs (which is an action in-game, not in a lobby) is agreeably wrong. Nobody is arguing that.

Every time you choose to use bad behavior you teach and encourage others to do the same.

misfit410
11-16-2010, 08:29 AM
Right, and good luck finding a reverse while you own it up and just add to the ragequit problem. I mean it's so bad already why does it matter right?

For me, anytime I'm winning, even with friends, I'll switch to the losers side to spice things up. It's usually not enough to make a difference, but I've made the game a little more fun for everyone.

nothing is going to solve the problem, if any one team goes first on dead center and makes it to the safe room alive...rage happens...it happens if I play with friends, it happens if I play with pubs..

Pubstomps are not a problem In any way shape or form, they are a scapegoat for whiny rage quitters.

godrifle
11-16-2010, 08:34 AM
Please think about it and respond with an idea of some sort. My post asking the community to be "better people" is an action. Saying "valve do something" isn't helpful at all.


Sorry, I thought we were on the same line here. By saying "Valve, Do something", I mean that it's been a good year since L4D2 came out, and in this time they've implemented nothing to fix rage quits. People have all been talking about displaying the number of quits you've had and for the people who agree that action must be taken against ragequitters, it's agreed that we need that, but Valve has done nothing except recently promise that they're looking into it.

Fixing rage quits won't directly fix four friend pub stomps, but anything towards fixing this community is a step in the right direction.

StakeX
11-16-2010, 08:39 AM
The way I see it is, if you want a GOOD/FAIR game and your playing with 4 friends... 2 of you go one team, 2 of you go on the other team and let randoms fill in the other slots. That way, the game is fun and fair for everyone and your still playing with your friends.

Otherwise, you are certainly going to have a huge advantage over the randoms that join and you know it (unless you absolutely suck). If you still go ahead and all play together, don't come running to the forums to cry about "rage quitting" when randoms simply don't want to deal with you guys playing together and end up quitting.

prophecy holder
11-16-2010, 08:51 AM
Sometimes I have 2 friends, sometimes i have 4 or 5. What then? You'll apparently still cry pubstomp and ignore the fact that team versus doesn't work well (if at all). And one of my closest friends has a bad router which fails a lot. If she is playing, i cannot play team versus even with the magic number of 4.




Valve has repeatedly told us to play with friends. Valve cannot fix stupid. I am not calling you stupid, i am calling the idea that you can fix human (bad) behavior stupid. What can you do programatically to fix this? Please think about it and respond with an idea of some sort. My post asking the community to be "better people" is an action. Saying "valve do something" isn't helpful at all.


Many of you miss the point of defining these terms and will never "get it". Screw Learn2Play, try Learn2Read.
If you are not STOMPing the other team, it isn't a pubSTOMP.
Friends playing together is not a criminal act, even against randoms. Friends beating up on pubs (which is an action in-game, not in a lobby) is agreeably wrong. Nobody is arguing that.

Every time you choose to use bad behavior you teach and encourage others to do the same.

You can fix bad behavior, it's called punishment. That's where society is failing since it's going through the "Just reward reward reward, no punishment" phase.

In a lot of other games, they have punishment system to stop people from:


Team killing
Griefing in many ways
Quitting repeatedly on small teams
Cheating
Glitching and clipping


Those games not only manage to have a better playerbase, but also a manage to keep players playing the game. Unlike L4D2 where people are quitting the game on a daily basis.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

13k peak hours. Couple days ago it was 17k at this same moment.

Xalphin
11-16-2010, 09:14 AM
I've recently discovered that people only scream about pubstomps when they lost. /sarcasm

@OP: This has been gone over in so many different topics, it's beginning-- okay, scratch that, it IS freakin' annoying, and this sh*t's getting old. Say what you want about friends playing in Versus, that ain't gonna stop us from "pubstomping", as you put it. If you don't like it, then get your own four and stop whining.

Lol, so much misconception! I'm not whining nor do I care considering I reverse. I just love all the pustompers who cry that they are just "friends and it's not a pubstomp" when they all have 500+ hrs.

turkey twizzler
11-16-2010, 10:40 AM
its all been said really, after 5 minutes of survivor play its pretty obvious to tell whether a genuine pubstomp is going down or if it's a pub or group of "non-serious" friends.

it's a pretty simple concept to grasp. if you (+ 3 friends) join a game with the intention of reversing pubstompers and find that it's not actually a pubstomp, you bail and find a better game. if you don't, then you're the pubstompers.

my favourite type of pubstompers are the groups that complain that they never play full games because the other team always ragequits, then after getting rolled in the first map they all leave without a word. bahahaha.

princos70
11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
Sometimes I have 2 friends, sometimes i have 4 or 5. What then? You'll apparently still cry pubstomp and ignore the fact that team versus doesn't work well (if at all). And one of my closest friends has a bad router which fails a lot. If she is playing, i cannot play team versus even with the magic number of 4.

(...)


Still 3 friends can give one team the upper hand, just take care of the random player. With only two friends things become interesting if you are not skilled enough to turn the tide of the match.

Anyways, I find it strange that you are the only contact on each of your friend's list.

Koga Shiro
11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
You can fix bad behavior, it's called punishment. That's where society is failing since it's going through the "Just reward reward reward, no punishment" phase.

In a lot of other games, they have punishment system to stop people from:


Team killing
Griefing in many ways
Quitting repeatedly on small teams
Cheating
Glitching and clipping


Those games not only manage to have a better playerbase, but also a manage to keep players playing the game. Unlike L4D2 where people are quitting the game on a daily basis.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

13k peak hours. Couple days ago it was 17k at this same moment.

Don't forget League of Legends which has more people actively playing than like the top five steam games combined, and has a very harsh set of penalty systems.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 11:02 AM
Lol, so much misconception! I'm not whining nor do I care considering I reverse. I just love all the pustompers who cry that they are just "friends and it's not a pubstomp" when they all have 500+ hrs.

4 friends =/= pubstomp.
High number of hours played =/= good player.

I saw a few people in the 700 hour range last week and they were completely abysmal. I see you are still stoking the fires with your big dream of "baiting the pubstompers of the forums to come in so you can lord your anti-stomp stories over them" bit.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 11:05 AM
nothing is going to solve the problem, if any one team goes first on dead center and makes it to the safe room alive...rage happens...it happens if I play with friends, it happens if I play with pubs..

Pubstomps are not a problem In any way shape or form, they are a scapegoat for whiny rage quitters.

+Rep for this man/woman. I'd give it ten times if I could.

princos70
11-16-2010, 11:09 AM
4 friends =/= pubstomp.
High number of hours played =/= good player.

I saw a few people in the 700 hour range last week and they were completely abysmal. I see you are still stoking the fires with your big dream of "baiting the pubstompers of the forums to come in so you can lord your anti-stomp stories over them" bit.

700 hours? that's dedication... or waste of time; maybe they were sharing the account with other people.

Ken the Eagle
11-16-2010, 11:12 AM
Don't forget League of Legends which has more people actively playing than like the top five steam games combined, and has a very harsh set of penalty systems.

Man. That game looks neat but insanely complex.

Too much stuff to absorb.

jasminethecat
11-16-2010, 11:17 AM
Still 3 friends can give one team the upper hand, just take care of the random player. With only two friends things become interesting if you are not skilled enough to turn the tide of the match.

Anyways, I find it strange that you are the only contact on each of your friend's list.

I am not sure what you mean...I have 84 friends right now...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/jasminethecat/home

I cleverly disguised my forums name by using my in-game name.

So now are we saying that 3 people are a pub stomp too? and 2 might be if they're good enough? where does it end people?

Sooner or later you will have to realize that SOMEONE will have an advantage from skill, strategy, friends, spawn choices, hit detection, tank spawns, throwable placement, etc. etc. I have 900+ hours between the 2 l4d games and I am not that good. I do not play competitive matches and my friends and I, when we play, do lose about 50% of the time. I don't even play with 3 friends most of the time because a lot of my friends have moved on unfortunately.

Freese
11-16-2010, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=jasminethecat;18684292]Sooner or later you will have to realize that SOMEONE will have an advantage from skill, strategy, friends, spawn choices, hit detection, tank spawns, throwable placement, etc. etc.[QUOTE]

Shh! Don't tell people that. They are supposed to think that everything in life and in competition is absolutely fair and balanced. After all, we're ALL winners here, right? Everyone is the same and no one should have an advantage over other people, right? We all should get shiny metals and pats on the back if we lose because it's not about winning, it's about trying hard.

(sarcasm if you couldn't tell)

LocalFiend138
11-16-2010, 11:31 AM
4 friends playing together do have an advantage, but that doesn't make it a pubstomp. It's only a pubstomp if they go into the game with the intention of "PWNING SUM RANDOM n00BZ!"

If you go into a public match all by yourself with randoms, you'll probably lose. That's common knowledge by now.

If you go into a match with two other friends, it's not unlikely that a terrible random will join and ruin your mojo. That's why people like having a full team.

If you're playing to win, play with friends. Plain and simple. Otherwise, best get over it.

EDIT: 500th post. Yay.

Koga Shiro
11-16-2010, 11:32 AM
I've back and forthed with Princos a lot on the whole matchmaker/pubstomper topic and yeah... I mean, the bottom line is, even if Valve put all those things in.... you're still going to run into "unfun" situations where you're simply losing, and then the excuses of unfair matchup will be gone... I think it's REALLY naive to think ragequitting is just going to evaporate because the crybabies raging now yelling "pubstomp/cheats/unfair" will no longer have a credible excuse. I think they're raging just because they can, and will continue until there's a penalty.

misfit410
11-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Amen, the difference between good and bad players is, good players were once bad players who never raged, instead they stayed and Learned a few things.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 11:38 AM
700 hours? that's dedication... or waste of time; maybe they were sharing the account with other people.

Or maybe someone hacked them, or maybe it was really the Red Army practicing in secret for the upcoming Z-day, or maybe.. or maybe... or maybe.

Or maybe you are grasping at straws in desperation to uphold your defense that hours = skill so you can continue your crusade on "pubstompers".

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 11:39 AM
Amen, the difference between good and bad players is, good players were once bad players who never raged, instead they stayed and Learned a few things.

Goll-y misfit. Now I'd give you 20 rep.

JustPlainJef
11-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Would you rather dominate a team that has ragers and eventually quits before the match is over, or press random, be with just one of your friends and have a balanced GOOD game against your other two friends?

I'm guessing the former.
ACtually, C. I'd like to spend some time gaming with my friends, and I'd like the game to be completed by 8 people and have the score close enough that either team can win it.
if you play with 3 friends and you don't win, you need new friends.
I play with my friends, we lose, we enjoy the time together. One was the best man at my wedding. We joke how he sucks at the game. But I wouldn't not invite him to a game.
4 friends =/= pubstomp.
High number of hours played =/= good player.
Thank you good sir. I have hundreds of hours played (over 400, I don't know exactly how much), but I'm not an amazing player. I play for fun. I play with friends.

If we have 4 friends, and we are beathing up on the other team, we don't insult them. To me, that's got to be part of the pub stomp equation.

If we start a game, and it's close, or we are getting rolled, we don't quit as long as the other team aren't jerks. However, if the other team blows chunks, we aren't going to go looking for another game. We'll finish up the game. I don't want to go looking for a new game every 5 minutes because people are too immature to lose.

LocalFiend138
11-16-2010, 11:53 AM
If we have 4 friends, and we are beathing up on the other team, we don't insult them. To me, that's got to be part of the pub stomp equation.


That's what angers me most. I don't mind losing at all, but when the opposing team starts tossing insults my way, I have no problem raging.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 12:20 PM
That's what angers me most. I don't mind losing at all, but when the opposing team starts tossing insults my way, I have no problem raging.

umadbro? UMAD? here, lemme invite you to the UMADBRO gaming group, and the UGOTPWNT gaming group HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hense why generally we a) don't do overcompetitive leagues, team vs, etc and b) why we have our own server.

PlayerX: UMADBRO?
PlayerX has been kicked from the game.

Play nice, play polite, learn, remember, and utilize sportsmanship and the gaming community will be better for it.

MechaPencil
11-16-2010, 01:00 PM
I've read a few pages, and from what I can tell, and from my experience playing versus and well, pretty much every online multiplayer team based game, pubbers refuse to communicate and then blame their problems eachother or on the other team.

In this case specifically, they're raging on people who are friends playing together, because they can't possibly TALK to eachother and plan and strategize.

It's obviously the people having fun's fault, being intelligent and not acting like ♥♥♥♥♥♥s to eachother.

WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, PLAYING WITH FRIENDS?

THATS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

*QQ, Ragequit*

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 01:04 PM
I've read a few pages, and from what I can tell, and from my experience playing versus and well, pretty much every online multiplayer team based game, pubbers refuse to communicate and then blame their problems eachother or on the other team.

In this case specifically, they're raging on people who are friends playing together, because they can't possibly TALK to eachother and plan and strategize.

It's obviously the people having fun's fault, being intelligent and not acting like ♥♥♥♥♥♥s to eachother.

WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, PLAYING WITH FRIENDS?

THATS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

*QQ, Ragequit*

+rep. I'm tired of being demonized for playing with friends as Valve suggested we do - as THE ENTIRE GAME WAS DESIGNED FOR. You have some people who defend ragequitting and demonize playing with friends as if every friend team are some 13 year olds grinding fist into palm and saying "yeah, we're gonna ♥♥♥♥ some people up!"

4 Friends =/= Pubstomp
Sometimes a Cigar is JUST a Cigar.

MordGesicht
11-16-2010, 01:57 PM
+rep. I'm tired of being demonized for playing with friends as Valve suggested we do - as THE ENTIRE GAME WAS DESIGNED FOR. You have some people who defend ragequitting and demonize playing with friends as if every friend team are some 13 year olds grinding fist into palm and saying "yeah, we're gonna ♥♥♥♥ some people up!"

4 Friends =/= Pubstomp
Sometimes a Cigar is JUST a Cigar.

People, in general, seem to have a hard time accepting defeat, so they look for anything to blame, other than themselves. It's classic poor sportsmanship, amplified by the volume of immature little kids playing this game.

Playing with friends has gotten a bad rep because of the "teams" of 13 year old kids who only play to "pubstomp" and be rude to their opponents.

There is nothing wrong with playing with friends, as long as you are polite and don't talk trash to the other team. If you fail to communicate with your team, regardless of the relationship with them, then you fail to grasp the idea of cooperative gameplay.

Nastradamus
11-16-2010, 02:02 PM
By definition it technically IS a pubstomp, but whatever haters gonna hate.

princos70
11-16-2010, 02:13 PM
I've read a few pages, and from what I can tell, and from my experience playing versus and well, pretty much every online multiplayer team based game, pubbers refuse to communicate and then blame their problems eachother or on the other team.

In this case specifically, they're raging on people who are friends playing together, because they can't possibly TALK to eachother and plan and strategize.

It's obviously the people having fun's fault, being intelligent and not acting like ♥♥♥♥♥♥s to eachother.

WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, PLAYING WITH FRIENDS?

THATS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

*QQ, Ragequit*

Team VS is there for a reason but, if friends keeps playing vs randoms, quitting will happens.

Xalphin
11-16-2010, 02:13 PM
In this thread: People trying to say 4 friends don't have an advantage over 4 pubs.

princos70
11-16-2010, 02:16 PM
(...)

There is nothing wrong with playing with friends, as long as you are polite and don't talk trash to the other team.

(...)


As long as the opposing team is made of friends too, there is nothing wrong.

But, when you join a lobby and see four spots in one side taken by four friends... do you really think that group search a fair match?

JustPlainJef
11-16-2010, 02:17 PM
No. We are saying that 4 friends =/= 4 a-holes looking to stomp you into the ground, and 4 friends =/= the 4 best players in a vs campaign.

If people don't want to be good people during the game, it doesn't matter if there's 1 or 4 of them. But don't try to lump my friends and I in with the people who are OK with quitting games after level 1 because you made it to the safe room, or the ones that ask you "LOLUMAD" when you are down by 150 points.

JustPlainJef
11-16-2010, 02:18 PM
As long as the opposing team is made of friends too, there is nothing wrong.

But, when you join a lobby and see four spots in one side taken by four friends... do you really think that group search a fair match?
Yes. I'd prefer a fair match. And yes. I want to play on my friend's team. There's a really good chance that you can beat us. We aren't amazing.

The other thing to recognise is that with "friend of a friend" there's a good chance that I don't know one or two of the people on my team.

princos70
11-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Yes. I'd prefer a fair match. And yes. I want to play on my friend's team. There's a really good chance that you can beat us. We aren't amazing.

The other thing to recognise is that with "friend of a friend" there's a good chance that I don't know one or two of the people on my team.

Sorry but I have to decline, I do not have enough "friends" currently. I'm not that good to play "1 vs 4".

MordGesicht
11-16-2010, 02:29 PM
Sorry but I have to decline, I do not have enough "friends" currently. I'm not that good to play "1 vs 4".

Well YOU aren't the entire community, and the fact that you don't have 3 friends to play with, probably says a lot about your in game behavior.

How can you just assume that everybody who plays with their friends is looking to destroy a group of pubs? I've had plenty of close matches. And it's been proven that being polite/a good sport will increase the chances of people staying in game.

I don't know how many times we have to say 4 friends=/=pubstomp

Koga Shiro
11-16-2010, 02:50 PM
People, in general, seem to have a hard time accepting defeat, so they look for anything to blame, other than themselves. It's classic poor sportsmanship, amplified by the volume of immature little kids playing this game.

What really disturbs me is I could count the "young kids" I've run into in the L4D games on two hands. It's the guys in their 19's - 20's who still behave like little spoiled brats that really makes my jaw drop. And there's tons of them.

princos70
11-16-2010, 02:58 PM
Well YOU aren't the entire community, and the fact that you don't have 3 friends to play with, probably says a lot about your in game behavior.

How can you just assume that everybody who plays with their friends is looking to destroy a group of pubs? I've had plenty of close matches. And it's been proven that being polite/a good sport will increase the chances of people staying in game.

I don't know how many times we have to say 4 friends=/=pubstomp

You are not the entire community, either. I suppose you avoid Team VS, and that probably says a lot about your in game behavior.

MordGesicht
11-16-2010, 02:59 PM
You are not the entire community, either. I suppose you avoid Team VS, and that probably says a lot about your in game behavior.

Ahhh, you and your Team VS advocacy.

Sure, if you want to completely disregard everything I've said, and assume I act like a child in game, be my guest.

princos70
11-16-2010, 03:01 PM
Ahhh, you and your Team VS advocacy.

Sure, if you want to completely disregard everything I've said, and assume I act like a child in game, be my guest.

Do you use Team VS or self-justify playing with your three friends in public lobbies with the argument "but we are polite with the randoms to reduce quitting" ?

Koga Shiro
11-16-2010, 03:02 PM
You are not the entire community, either. I suppose you avoid Team VS, and that probably says a lot about your in game behavior.

Princos you're just mindlessly attacking tons of people who have no issue with a random only lobby option. You've been doing that for months. Rather than wasting your time doing that you should be asking Valve why they haven't added such an obviously useful lobby option after all this time.

The main thing is, the whole "pubstomp, pubstomp" cry is your excuse for mass ragequitting in this game, and those of us who aren't as paranoid as you are and do go out and solo pub still see that it's a game-crippling problem even when people don't know each other.

The fact that you frequently shift tack and bring up matchmakers leads me to believe you do not honestly buy into your whole theory that the whole problem is pubstomping. It sounds like what you expect is a favorable match each and every time you join a versus game. Go play any game with a strong matchmaking system and come back and tell me if you always get placed into 100% fair games with people whose skill does not noticeably exceed your team's.

It would be nice if you could direct some of your comments to the reality plane, where we have to grapple with the fact that while yes, these things would be nice, they're not going to create the utopia and get rid of all the bad behaviors.

prophecy holder
11-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Ahhh, you and your Team VS advocacy.

Sure, if you want to completely disregard everything I've said, and assume I act like a child in game, be my guest.

To play devils advocate:

If you have 3 other friends you regulary play with, why don't you go to team versus? It is thier for four friends to play against other team of four friends. Hell, lets just kill two birds with one stone shall we. Why don't you play on a private server? You know people ragequit like it's going out of fashion, you also know that four friends will always destroy a team of four randoms. Why bother with public versus at all?

LocalFiend138
11-16-2010, 04:10 PM
But, when you join a lobby and see four spots in one side taken by four friends... do you really think that group search a fair match?
If you don't think it's a fair match, you're always free to leave the lobby.

umadbro? UMAD? here, lemme invite you to the UMADBRO gaming group, and the UGOTPWNT gaming group HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hense why generally we a) don't do overcompetitive leagues, team vs, etc and b) why we have our own server.

PlayerX: UMADBRO?
PlayerX has been kicked from the game.

Play nice, play polite, learn, remember, and utilize sportsmanship and the gaming community will be better for it.

I can't tell whether this response is mocking me or not, but I agree with the last part.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 04:40 PM
I can't tell whether this response is mocking me or not, but I agree with the last part.

No mockery; just a satire of the people who run around 'Umadbro'ing; inviting folks to their game groups that have titles like "UMADBRO" "ULOSTHAHAHA" etc.

There was a pair of fools on last night that decided to speed hack. They got banned from the game, to which their immediate response was to invite me to two groups: "I RENT SERVERS TO ABUSE PLAYERS" and "ANYONE BETTER THAN ME = HAX LULZ"

Happily, I have record of their speed-hacking.

LocalFiend138
11-16-2010, 04:47 PM
No mockery; just a satire of the people who run around 'Umadbro'ing; inviting folks to their game groups that have titles like "UMADBRO" "ULOSTHAHAHA" etc.

There was a pair of fools on last night that decided to speed hack. They got banned from the game, to which their immediate response was to invite me to two groups: "I RENT SERVERS TO ABUSE PLAYERS" and "ANYONE BETTER THAN ME = HAX LULZ"

Happily, I have record of their speed-hacking.
Oh, gotcha.

I've never heard of anyone doing that, but it doesn't surprise me. Some people really are depraved.

The Hop Goblin
11-16-2010, 04:56 PM
Oh, gotcha.

I've never heard of anyone doing that, but it doesn't surprise me. Some people really are depraved.

It's a new gig; it's only been going on about a month now.

Aiya
11-16-2010, 08:57 PM
I just played a Versus match yesterday. I joined a game where 3 of my friends were in, we didn't pick teams, just went random. And when the game started, guess what? My friends and I were all on the same team. Not our fault, right? And in the first level, the other team didn't seem to be coordinating at all, and they lost pretty quickly even though we weren't even trying to beat them.

Then one of them said "4 noob frens" and ragequitted, which led to his ENTIRE team ragequitting.

Now tell me: Is it OUR fault that the game decided to put our friends all on the same team despite not choosing teams in the lobby?

Freese
11-16-2010, 09:30 PM
I just played a Versus match yesterday. I joined a game where 3 of my friends were in, we didn't pick teams, just went random. And when the game started, guess what? My friends and I were all on the same team. Not our fault, right? And in the first level, the other team didn't seem to be coordinating at all, and they lost pretty quickly even though we weren't even trying to beat them.

Then one of them said "4 noob frens" and ragequitted, which led to his ENTIRE team ragequitting.

Now tell me: Is it OUR fault that the game decided to put our friends all on the same team despite not choosing teams in the lobby?

No. When people lose, they call hacks, pubstomping, and anything else that does not hold them accountable for their own loss.

Why is teamwork acceptable in other games but so frowned upon in this game? In Day of Defeat, no one cares if the other side consists of friends only. I realize that L4D requires more teamwork than DoD, but this means that people should do everything they can do ensure that they use good teamwork, and the best way to do this is to play with the same people over and over again.

MechaPencil
11-16-2010, 09:52 PM
In this thread: People trying to say 4 friends don't have an advantage over 4 pubs.

The only advantage friends have is they're more likely to be willing to actually play together and talk together, instead of being quiet and only talking to call eachother names.

Its not my fault me and my friends are civil. Its your fault you can't talk without raging at your team mates.

A ragequit is a ragequit, lack of communication skills is still a lack of skills. Stop trying to defend it and get better at playing as a team.

Aiya
11-16-2010, 09:55 PM
In this thread: People trying to say 4 friends don't have an advantage over 4 pubs.

No. In this thread: people trying to say that 4 friends = a pubstomp, and other people saying that 4 friends are not a pubstomp, instead, 4 friends do have advantage in terms of communication.

FFS, just how many times do we have to go over this again?

Freese
11-16-2010, 10:22 PM
Crying pubstomp every time you lose is scapegoating. Scapegoating, in general, has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit.

whirlmaster
11-17-2010, 12:23 AM
Crying pubstomp every time you lose is scapegoating. Scapegoating, in general, has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit.
+rep for truth.

gunnersquad
11-17-2010, 01:18 AM
wtf is going on here

LocalFiend138
11-17-2010, 02:09 AM
Crying pubstomp every time you lose is scapegoating. Scapegoating, in general, has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit.

Valid statement, good sir.

princos70
11-17-2010, 04:38 AM
No. When people lose, they call hacks, pubstomping, and anything else that does not hold them accountable for their own loss.

Why is teamwork acceptable in other games but so frowned upon in this game? In Day of Defeat, no one cares if the other side consists of friends only. I realize that L4D requires more teamwork than DoD, but this means that people should do everything they can do ensure that they use good teamwork, and the best way to do this is to play with the same people over and over again.

Day of defeat is a bad example. Both teams have same weapons or equivalent, respawn is very fast, a skilled player on one side can win rounds alone.

In L4D2 having a team of friends in one side wins a lot more than the randoms.

Freese
11-17-2010, 07:12 AM
Day of defeat is a bad example. Both teams have same weapons or equivalent, respawn is very fast, a skilled player on one side can win rounds alone.

In L4D2 having a team of friends in one side wins a lot more than the randoms.

Having a team of friends in DoD gives you a better chance to win over random players. Having a team of friends in CoD or LoL or WoW or any other MULTIPLAYER game gives you a better chance of winning over random players because communication and organization prevails over Rambo players almost always.

It's the same thing with L4D: playing with friends gives you a better chance of winning, but it does not mean you are an unstoppable zombie killing force. The only reason why most "pubstompers" or groups of friends wins is because the other side sees that the team of friends aren't dimwits who stand in front of death charge windows and they just rage quit.

There is a ridiculous double standard in this game: people expect their own team to have teamwork so they can slaughter their opponents without any resistance. But if the opponent fights back and puts up a challenge, then the other team rage quits.

Again, why is it OK for friends to play with each other in other multiplayer games but not in L4D? Disclaimer: I am not advocating that uber-skilled friends teams go seek out lesser skilled players and stomp them at copy and paste YOU MAD? over and over, but I have to say that or else Princos will think that I am one of these players. Rather, I think that Left 4 Dead like any other multiplayer game is more fun when you are playing with multiple players who are friends.

In CoD or DoD, I play with my friends all the time, but no one ever accuses us of pubstomping. If I play with friends in this game though, people act like I just murdered someone. If I lose with my team friends in CoD or DoD, the other team says nothing. If I lose in L4D with my team of friends, we get called "failed pubstompers" and "noobs."

Go ahead, nit pick at this Princos like you do with everyone else's examples.

The Hop Goblin
11-17-2010, 07:54 AM
Having a team of friends in DoD gives you a better chance to win over random players. Having a team of friends in CoD or LoL or WoW or any other MULTIPLAYER game gives you a better chance of winning over random players because communication and organization prevails over Rambo players almost always.

It's the same thing with L4D: playing with friends gives you a better chance of winning, but it does not mean you are an unstoppable zombie killing force. The only reason why most "pubstompers" or groups of friends wins is because the other side sees that the team of friends aren't dimwits who stand in front of death charge windows and they just rage quit.

There is a ridiculous double standard in this game: people expect their own team to have teamwork so they can slaughter their opponents without any resistance. But if the opponent fights back and puts up a challenge, then the other team rage quits.

Again, why is it OK for friends to play with each other in other multiplayer games but not in L4D? Disclaimer: I am not advocating that uber-skilled friends teams go seek out lesser skilled players and stomp them at copy and paste YOU MAD? over and over, but I have to say that or else Princos will think that I am one of these players. Rather, I think that Left 4 Dead like any other multiplayer game is more fun when you are playing with multiple players who are friends.

In CoD or DoD, I play with my friends all the time, but no one ever accuses us of pubstomping. If I play with friends in this game though, people act like I just murdered someone. If I lose with my team friends in CoD or DoD, the other team says nothing. If I lose in L4D with my team of friends, we get called "failed pubstompers" and "noobs."

Go ahead, nit pick at this Princos like you do with everyone else's examples.

Bit by bit, folks like you, JusPlainJef, and prophecy are restoring my faith in humanity.

Aiya
11-17-2010, 09:00 AM
I'm getting a feeling that no matter how reasonable we are, no matter how solid and sound our point is, those people crying about pubstomps are not gonna listen at all. *sigh*

But I'm still gonna play with friends anyway, and nothing anyone says can stop me. (and before another wave of whiners scream "pubstomp", first I say that I NEVER play a game with the intention to beat anyone. Whatever happened to playing for fun?)

MechaPencil
11-17-2010, 09:02 AM
In L4D2 having a team of friends in one side wins a lot more than the randoms.

Thats the pubber's fault, not the friends.

Pubbers need to learn to act like a team.

MMZ>Torak
11-17-2010, 09:06 AM
Whatever happened to playing for fun?

1) "Playing to Win" is not the same as "Win at All Costs". Everyone plays to win.

2) "Pubstomp" is about intent. Playing with friends is playing with friends. Getting four friends together to "Win at All Costs" is a pubstomp.

3) Since you can't use software to determine a persons intentions, you can't fix "pubstomping".

4) "Pubstomping" and "Rage Quitting" are symptoms of a greater problem which is a lack of sportsmanship.

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 09:15 AM
1) "Playing to Win" is not the same as "Win at All Costs". Everyone plays to win.

2) "Pubstomp" is about intent. Playing with friends is playing with friends. Getting four friends together to "Win at All Costs" is a pubstomp.

3) Since you can't use software to determine a persons intentions, you can't fix "pubstomping".

4) "Pubstomping" and "Rage Quitting" are symptoms of a greater problem which is a lack of sportsmanship.

thank you.

This man speaks the truth.

+rep

curran12
11-17-2010, 09:16 AM
1) "Playing to Win" is not the same as "Win at All Costs". Everyone plays to win.

2) "Pubstomp" is about intent. Playing with friends is playing with friends. Getting four friends together to "Win at All Costs" is a pubstomp.

3) Since you can't use software to determine a persons intentions, you can't fix "pubstomping".

4) "Pubstomping" and "Rage Quitting" are symptoms of a greater problem which is a lack of sportsmanship.

Pretty much spot on here. +rep too

Aiya
11-17-2010, 09:23 AM
Lack of sportsmanship... I'm guessing this is never gonna be fixed, then. :( Oh well, at least we still have friends to play with.

Koga Shiro
11-17-2010, 09:23 AM
No. When people lose, they call hacks, pubstomping, and anything else that does not hold them accountable for their own loss.

Why is teamwork acceptable in other games but so frowned upon in this game? In Day of Defeat, no one cares if the other side consists of friends only. I realize that L4D requires more teamwork than DoD, but this means that people should do everything they can do ensure that they use good teamwork, and the best way to do this is to play with the same people over and over again.

Agreed.

In fairness, I do think solo queue'ers should have a random option, because I can certainly relate to how irritating it is to not have any friends on, but lobby after lobby is full of presets. I'm not always in the mood to rally 3 micless pubs against a preset, and spamming through 17 or 18 lobbies trying to find no presets is a needless hassle for solo players.

At the same time-- I've seen SO many people cry pubstomp when I was solo pubbing with three other pubbers just because they were losing, that I know that a good portion of the anti-pubstomp sentiment is sore losership; not legitimate indignation over pubstomping.

curran12
11-17-2010, 09:27 AM
The sportsmanship lack I think is really amplified by the small number of players per game in L4D.

In TF2, with games of larger teams, losing one person is usually not that big of a deal. In most servers, someone new will come along in short order and things work themselves out. Likewise, being a man down in TF2 is not so much crippling.

On the other hand, in L4D, if you lose a person, the small team size means that 25% of your team's capacity is gone, which is a lot more to overcome. Sure you got a bot, but they are only marginally useful as Survivors, and more or less useless as Infected.

MMZ>Torak
11-17-2010, 09:27 AM
In fairness, I do think solo queue'ers should have a random option, because I can certainly relate to how irritating it is to not have any friends on, but lobby after lobby is full of presets. I'm not always in the mood to rally 3 micless pubs against a preset, and spamming through 17 or 18 lobbies trying to find no presets is a needless hassle for solo players.

Yup, two game modes for VS:

Random Teams

Ranked/Ladder

No other difference in the game play between the two though.

MMZ>Torak
11-17-2010, 09:34 AM
The sportsmanship lack I think is really amplified by the small number of players per game in L4D.

In TF2, with games of larger teams, losing one person is usually not that big of a deal. In most servers, someone new will come along in short order and things work themselves out. Likewise, being a man down in TF2 is not so much crippling.

On the other hand, in L4D, if you lose a person, the small team size means that 25% of your team's capacity is gone, which is a lot more to overcome. Sure you got a bot, but they are only marginally useful as Survivors, and more or less useless as Infected.

Absolutely, this is why people should be a little more tolerant of people making mistakes rather than less tolerant. When you treat people like crap over a simple mistake they leave and ruin your game much more than a failed death charge or boom would have.

princos70
11-17-2010, 09:42 AM
Thats the pubber's fault, not the friends.

Pubbers need to learn to act like a team.

That's the friends' fault, not the pubber.

Friends need to learn to play in Team VS (not in public lobbies).

jasminethecat
11-17-2010, 09:45 AM
1) "Playing to Win" is not the same as "Win at All Costs". Everyone plays to win.

2) "Pubstomp" is about intent. Playing with friends is playing with friends. Getting four friends together to "Win at All Costs" is a pubstomp.

3) Since you can't use software to determine a persons intentions, you can't fix "pubstomping".

4) "Pubstomping" and "Rage Quitting" are symptoms of a greater problem which is a lack of sportsmanship.


I tried saying the same thing several pages earlier, i just took a lot more words!

We all agree that actual stomping of a less skilled team and insulting them is a bad thing.

We all agree that you only pick friends to play with who communicate and compliment your playing style.

We all agree that a team (friends or pubs) with general game awareness and communication skills will do better than one without.

None of these statements translate to the initial assumption that playing with friends = pubstomping...unfortunately these pricks will never understand that because they don't have friends and only play if they can win. I pity them.

EDIT: And please Princos, STFU about team versus...it doesn't work often, and only when you have 4 players...sometimes we have groups of 2,3,4,5 or more, and still allow pubs on either side. If you had 3 friends and tried playing it, you would see that.

Aiya
11-17-2010, 09:46 AM
That's the friends' fault, not the pubber.

Friends need to learn to play in Team VS not in public lobbies.

Again with your Team VS advocacy... *facepalm*

Let me know when Team VS isn't broken anymore, and I'll let you know when I'm switching to Team VS. The reason why we don't play there is because 99% of the time we get an opposing team that ragequits the minute they lose that first round.

Freese
11-17-2010, 09:47 AM
Agreed.

In fairness, I do think solo queue'ers should have a random option, because I can certainly relate to how irritating it is to not have any friends on, but lobby after lobby is full of presets. I'm not always in the mood to rally 3 micless pubs against a preset, and spamming through 17 or 18 lobbies trying to find no presets is a needless hassle for solo players.

At the same time-- I've seen SO many people cry pubstomp when I was solo pubbing with three other pubbers just because they were losing, that I know that a good portion of the anti-pubstomp sentiment is sore losership; not legitimate indignation over pubstomping.

Indeed. Look, I get that some people don't want to make friends in this game. There's nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean you guys should try to force others not to play with other friends either.

If winning is really that big of a deal to you, you can create advantages for yourself by teaming up with friends. If you choose not to take advantage of this, then do not complain.

The problem with "pubstomping" is the people who team up just to take out lowbies and make fun of them the whole time. I would like to think that most friend teams are not like this. Therefore, it's the ones who do seek lesser skilled players only who give us friendly players a bad image.

It's like how some idiots think all Muslims are terrorists or all Republicans are Tea Baggers. A small, unruly, and vocal minority of one group always puts a bad light on the majority. In our case, because some teams of friends deilberately seek out lesser skilled oponents to crush them and call them names, friendly players like me who play with friends are pigeonholed into the category of "pubstompers."

That's the friends' fault, not the pubber.

Friends need to learn to play in Team VS (not in public lobbies).

This weekend we waited in team vs queue for 30 minutes until we finally got a team. We made it to the saferoom and they rage quit before it was their turn to go as survivor. Why sit around for 30 minutes in a team versus queue when I just find premade lobbies faster?

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 09:47 AM
That's the friends' fault, not the pubber.

Friends need to learn to play in Team VS (not in public lobbies).

Dude, enough.

You're beating a dead horse.

Koga Shiro
11-17-2010, 10:06 AM
Again with your Team VS advocacy... *facepalm*

Let me know when Team VS isn't broken anymore, and I'll let you know when I'm switching to Team VS. The reason why we don't play there is because 99% of the time we get an opposing team that ragequits the minute they lose that first round.

Valve implemented it very badly. I think the default pub lobby should be a random one. Team should let you go in with 2-4 people and then fit you with other friends/teams. Like League of Legends does.

As it stands, it's merely an honor system with an extremely long wait, because this community suffers from incredible amounts of attention deficit disorder in terms of not even being capable of waiting in a lobby for 8 seconds, let alone waiting 5 minutes to be matched with a team. Not to mention the fact that for a variety of reasons... it's so much more beneficial in every regard to just troll pub games for easy wins, than to seek out harder ones.

Valve hasn't figured out yet that putting in an avenue to "play the way you probably ought to anyhow" as purely a voluntary honor system does not work. They haven't figured that out with the ragequitting problem, and they haven't figured it out with team versus.

Indeed. Look, I get that some people don't want to make friends in this game. There's nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean you guys should try to force others not to play with other friends either.

I've done a massive amount of team versus and team confogl versus. So I certainly know what's involved in doing team versus games. The four of us would be alt tabbed out looking at youtubes and what not and speaking in Mumble while waiting for a matchup, and it would often be 15-30 minutes.

However, I'm going to oppose you on the quoted point above: giving randoms some option, even if it's just a random only lobby type, to not play against presets, is NOT preventing you from playing with your friends. If it means a slightly longer wait to fill a lobby with randoms or whatever, you'll still almost undoubtedly be waiting a miniscule fraction of the time team versus takes. "You're preventing me from playing with my friends" is the vintage, classic bad argument that got used agaisnt Alehm's Random Only Lobby Option thread suggestion for Valve, and unless & until people regard playing with their freinds as "requiring" randoms to beat up on, then I see no grounds for them to oppose a random option for solo players who do not wish to play against presets.

Freese
11-17-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you Koga, and I also think that there should be a random only option. All I am saying is that people who complain about people playing with friends can fix this by making friend themselves. Until Valve implements a random only lobby option, this is the only way to go to get sustainable games.

princos70
11-17-2010, 10:12 AM
Again with your Team VS advocacy... *facepalm*

Let me know when Team VS isn't broken anymore, and I'll let you know when I'm switching to Team VS. The reason why we don't play there is because 99% of the time we get an opposing team that ragequits the minute they lose that first round.

Team VS is broken because teams are in public lobbies. Some nights I lose the count of how many teams I find waiting in lobbies.

If all those teams complaining that "Team VS does not work, is not our fault if we joing a public lobby and randoms ragequit" were using Team VS exclusively...

Koga Shiro
11-17-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you Koga, and I also think that there should be a random only option. All I am saying is that people who complain about people playing with friends can fix this by making friend themselves. Until Valve implements a random only lobby option, this is the only way to go to get sustainable games.

Princos certainly has the option to host his own lobbies and just kick people who join and have hidden profiles or four-pop in together. Even if he doesn't want to make/play with friends.

But, if you corner him on that, then he'll change topics to the game needing matchmakers. That's why I'm less convinced with him that the issue is pubstomping, and more the fact that everytime he loses he considers it to be due to totally unfair games. Which, bluntly, is going to happen (both losing, and being paired up against better players) even in games with robust matchmaking. It's PvP. You don't always win. Oh excuse me, but this is L4D... where almost everyone has like a 79% win rate on their record from just raging out of losses, lol.

jasminethecat
11-17-2010, 10:20 AM
Team VS is broken because teams are in public lobbies. Some nights I lose the count of how many teams I find waiting in lobbies.

If all those teams complaining that "Team VS does not work, is not our fault if we joing a public lobby and randoms ragequit" were using Team VS exclusively...

Do you use team versus? Seriously, if you haven't used it you need to leave it be. Those of us with friends have tried it too many times, and end up burning our game time looking for people to play. We still end up with ragers and griefers in TV once we finally get a match. Regardless of WHY it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

You are ignoring the obvious so I suggest everyone ignores you unless you have something intelligent to say.

Freese
11-17-2010, 10:22 AM
Team VS is broken because teams are in public lobbies. Some nights I lose the count of how many teams I find waiting in lobbies.

If all those teams complaining that "Team VS does not work, is not our fault if we joing a public lobby and randoms ragequit" were using Team VS exclusively...

This weekend we waited in team vs queue for 30 minutes until we finally got a team. We made it to the saferoom and they rage quit before it was their turn to go as survivor. Why sit around for 30 minutes in a team versus queue when I just find premade lobbies faster?

princos70
11-17-2010, 10:23 AM
Do you use team versus? Seriously, if you haven't used it you need to leave it be. Those of us with friends have tried it too many times, and end up burning our game time looking for people to play. We still end up with ragers and griefers in TV once we finally get a match. Regardless of WHY it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

You are ignoring the obvious so I suggest everyone ignores you unless you have something intelligent to say.

Use friendly lobbies and not public.

Aiya
11-17-2010, 10:25 AM
Dude, enough.

You're beating a dead horse.

In case princos didn't see it the first time.

Freese
11-17-2010, 10:34 AM
Use friendly lobbies and not public.

Make friends yourself and avoid getting stomped. See what I did there?

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 10:39 AM
Make friends yourself and avoid getting stomped. See what I did there?

>1,000 posts and <100 rep? Yeah, he's a real charmer.

princos70
11-17-2010, 10:42 AM
>1,000 posts and <100 rep? Yeah, he's a real charmer.

I don't make clone accounts like some people in the forum, nor I have a small group of users to trade rep points with.

Freese
11-17-2010, 10:42 AM
>1,000 posts and <100 rep? Yeah, he's a real charmer.

I understand that he does not play Left 4 Dead to make friends, and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. But he really doesn't have any room to complain if he is not using the buddy system to his advantage seeing as this is the only option right now to ensure that one can get satisfying games.

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 10:43 AM
I don't make clone accounts like some people in the forum, nor I have a small group of users to trade rep points with.

Or, you're an over-opinionated prick who has no friends.

(I may receive an infraction for this)

Aiya
11-17-2010, 10:44 AM
I don't make clone accounts like some people in the forum, nor I have a small group of users to trade rep points with.

They don't need to do any of the above to get that much rep. :rolleyes:

I barely know anyone in the forums, and now... *le gasp!* I have 64 rep? I must have really pleased some people. :D

Edit: 69 rep now. :) Man, I need to start knowing which of my posts made me so likeable that I earn rep.

Aiya
11-17-2010, 10:45 AM
Or, you're an over-opinionated prick who has no friends.

(I may receive an infraction for this)

I'll be the one of the first to try and veto that infraction.

Koga Shiro
11-17-2010, 10:46 AM
I don't make clone accounts like some people in the forum, nor I have a small group of users to trade rep points with.

I love how conspiracy theories about rep circles has taken root as the default comeback from people who generally lone wolf and don't really find any traction for what they post in the forum community.

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 10:47 AM
I love how conspiracy theories about rep circles has taken root as the default comeback from people who generally lone wolf and don't really find any traction for what they post in the forum community.

Besides, you can't "shower" your friends with rep. It doesn't let you.

I'll be the one of the first to try and veto that infraction.

Thanks bud :D

Zora-Link
11-17-2010, 10:51 AM
They don't need to do any of the above to get that much rep. :rolleyes:

I barely know anyone in the forums, and now... *le gasp!* I have 64 rep? I must have really pleased some people. :D

Edit: 69 rep now. :) Man, I need to start knowing which of my posts made me so likeable that I earn rep.

You can check it under "User CP" right below "Steam Users' Forums"

Aiya
11-17-2010, 10:56 AM
You can check it under "User CP" right below "Steam Users' Forums"

Cool! Although now I see that nearly half of my rep came from troll posts. I suppose being funny has its uses. ;)

MordGesicht
11-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Cool! Although now I see that nearly half of my rep came from troll posts. I suppose being funny has its uses. ;)

Granted, there's no harm in being cheeky ;), it's probably wise to be as constructive as you are funny

Aiya
11-17-2010, 11:03 AM
Granted, there's no harm in being cheeky ;), it's probably wise to be as constructive as you are funny

Yep. I'm definitely trying, though what is constructive to one may not be so to others. :)

JustPlainJef
11-17-2010, 11:32 AM
1) "Playing to Win" is not the same as "Win at All Costs". Everyone plays to win.

2) "Pubstomp" is about intent. Playing with friends is playing with friends. Getting four friends together to "Win at All Costs" is a pubstomp.

3) Since you can't use software to determine a persons intentions, you can't fix "pubstomping".

4) "Pubstomping" and "Rage Quitting" are symptoms of a greater problem which is a lack of sportsmanship.
It was said before, but it should be said again. Well said.

Team VS is broken because teams are in public lobbies. Some nights I lose the count of how many teams I find waiting in lobbies.

If all those teams complaining that "Team VS does not work, is not our fault if we joing a public lobby and randoms ragequit" were using Team VS exclusively...
Use friendly lobbies and not public.
Itís been established that the wait in TV is horrendous, and that thereís raging in those games as well, so obviously, TV isnít the only answer. If we waited half an hour, got a game, made it to the safe room, and the other team quit, Iíd probably never play it again.
I don't make clone accounts like some people in the forum, nor I have a small group of users to trade rep points with.
Neither do I.
They don't need to do any of the above to get that much rep. :rolleyes:

I barely know anyone in the forums, and now... *le gasp!* I have 64 rep? I must have really pleased some people. :D

Edit: 69 rep now. :) Man, I need to start knowing which of my posts made me so likeable that I earn rep.
Same here! Shocking! People seem to agree with what Iím sayingÖ.

Bit by bit, folks like you, JusPlainJef, and prophecy are restoring my faith in humanity.
Thank you.

Growit
01-14-2011, 05:46 AM
My opinion is that its a pubstomp only if its a "real team".

I play every night with 3 or more friends.
My friends are "newbies" to "semi-pro" players.
20h to 1500h.
Reason i play with friends is mainly the language problem.
I just suck in writing english (lol, this message takes 25min me to write:D ), and i suck even more speaking it.
And i play at n52te pad, so text chatting is pretty hard midle of the game...


So, i have a simple solution for that.
I have 50+ players friend listed who speak same language.
Usually there is enough of them online to make a team.

Some games we win, some games we lose.
Some games are very close score at the end, some are just like 3000-1000...

Thing that irritate me is these guys who come to lobby only to say:
"OMG U PUBSTOMPING TEAM GO TO TEAM VERSUS U NOOBS"
and leave right after that...:o

So if u come to lobby where is Growit & 3 frieds, dont be affraid.
We may just suck like noobs, or we might do some decent play.
Its all mainly about those plyers that get the opposite team and how they manage to communicate...

Mambini
01-14-2011, 05:52 AM
Player X wants to have a game with his friends, he knows nothing about PCW'S or private groups that he could join in order to have a fair game against other 4 friends.They are the ones that yell "HAX" when things start going downhill for them..

THE matchmaking system of left 4 dead's contributes actively to this issue, always did and always will. Everyone pubstomped, no one is a saint regarding this subject, some develop a type of common sense and tired of BAD games realized that stomping is not even rewarding (Skill and joy)..

Summing up, players pubstomp because they can!

Thing that irritate me is these guys who come to lobby only to say:
"OMG U PUBSTOMPING TEAM GO TO TEAM VERSUS U NOOBS"
and leave right after that...

They are so right by saying this, did you ever felt that way ? Feeling that you are wasting your time, playing against a team that is owning bad and giving no chance to you and other three guys that probably only one speaks English ?

Gain some conscience. It's not pretty to do that, so I second what they say.. "OMG U PUBSTOMPING TEAM GO TO TEAM VERSUS U NOOBS!"!

Its all mainly about those plyers that get the opposite team and how they manage to communicate...

The level of skill doesn't need to be refered. If you are 4 friends that usually play together, you have advantage over the poor team of randoms that's going to play against you. It's not fair, it's not even right.

If you are happy playing against teams made of randoms and with lack of coordination, IT'S obvious you will return to lobby or play against two guys on the other side..

Fun fun fun! yeah ?

RugbyOddjob
01-14-2011, 06:17 AM
Who bumped this thread?? *Looks at Growit* :mad:

This is one argument that has no definative answer.

4 x Friends does not a pubstomping team make
4 x Friends have a distinct advantage over a bunch of randoms
4 x Randoms could gel and co-ordinate and reverse the stomp
4 x Friends could suck gonads and fail

It isn't possible to equate one all-emcompassing outcome, due to the variables in play.

The only accurate consclusion is if 4 x Friends, who play together all the time, who may get involved in pugs and scrims or even comps and who actively go looking for un-coordinated public randoms can be classed a Pubstomp team.

Whether they win or not is down to a lot of x factors.

Now can we all go and play nicely? :p

Mambini
01-14-2011, 06:24 AM
Now can we all go and play nicely? :p

Speaking about this..

When will we do some cross group playing ? :D

jasminethecat
01-14-2011, 06:32 AM
At the rate players are dropping, soon we'll all be on each others' list. Problem solved.

Aelok
01-14-2011, 06:42 AM
At the rate players are dropping, soon we'll all be on each others' list. Problem solved.

I've started to notice this already happening a few months ago lol

Growit
01-14-2011, 06:44 AM
The level of skill doesn't need to be refered. If you are 4 friends that usually play together, you have advantage over the poor team of randoms that's going to play against you. It's not fair, it's not even right.

Yep.
Then i play team versus or find a lobby where is other team.
That was not the point.
Point was that its not allways 4 friends = a pubstomp.


If you are happy playing against teams made of randoms and with lack of coordination, IT'S obvious you will return to lobby or play against two guys on the other side..

Fun fun fun! yeah ?

Yeah, like yesterday when we get a** r**ed on parish.
I had one friend who had never played that map.
Other who had less than 50h.

It was fun.

U concider that a attemp of a pubstomp? :D

Mambini
01-14-2011, 06:48 AM
U concider that a attemp of a pubstomp? :D

Actually no. I consider that a selfish act against the players playing against you..

If he never played the map and the other has less than 50 hours (although hours mean nothing) you should be playing campaign and not plague the versus scene and boycotting the other guys game.

RugbyOddjob
01-14-2011, 06:59 AM
Speaking about this..

When will we do some cross group playing ? :D

Ready when you are. All I need is a day or so notice (or a PM when online) and I'll scrape up a few of the 8PM Versus lot.

Cry havoc and let slip the daogs of L4D2!!!

Growit
01-14-2011, 07:01 AM
Actually no. I consider that a selfish act against the players playing against you..

So, how u played your first versus game?
With pubs, or frieds?
He would be kicked of like 10 seconds if with pubs... :D

Taking him with me is the best way to tell him where to attack etc....


If he never played the map and the other has less than 50 hours (although hours mean nothing) you should be playing campaign and not plague the versus scene and boycotting the other guys game.

He had played campaing few times, but never ever that final map.

It was fun game over all.
I think that opposite team thinks the same.
We didnt lose more than 200 points at the end...

There was some epic fails in bouth sides. :D

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:01 AM
As was stated before, a "pubstomp" is a scapegoat for whiney, unsportsmanlike rage quitters.

Playing with friends was a viable way to enjoy l4d2 online, until it became taboo by all the ragers.

Growit
01-14-2011, 07:06 AM
Who bumped this thread?? *Looks at Growit* :mad:


Oh, sry.
Dont be mad.
I dont want make war about this thing, just saying there is things like language problems.

As was stated before, a "pubstomp" is a scapegoat for whiney, unsportsmanlike rage quitters.
Playing with friends was a viable way to enjoy l4d2 online, until it became taboo by all the ragers.

This.
100% this.

misfit410
01-14-2011, 07:19 AM
4 friends will play together with or without your approval, so.. get over that.

princos70
01-14-2011, 07:22 AM
Get over it.

Unless you all just bought the game and have under 100 hrs it's a pubstomp.

Play with 7 friends instead of just 3. Get over it.

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:32 AM
Play with 7 friends instead of just 3. Get over it.

Hey princos, just out of curiosity, do you spend more time hopping from lobby to lobby than actually in game?

Honestly, that's THE BIGGEST problem with this community. They should seriously rename the game l4lobbyrage2.

I guess my point is, if people spent less time worrying about who they're playing against/with, and more time remembering that it's just a GAME, and the point of a game is to have FUN, we'd all be a little better off.

Half the battle is just getting a lobby filled, the other half is making it past map 1.

Are teams of friends REALLY the problem? Are you sure it isn't the ragers? REALLY? REALLY?!?!

Mambini
01-14-2011, 07:34 AM
So, how u played your first versus game?
With pubs, or frieds?
He would be kicked of like 10 seconds if with pubs... :D


I remember when the game got out (left 4 dead 1), versus terrified me! I went alone, didn't knew no one..

Early understood that COOP (infected and survivors) was essential to be at least a competent player.

I must admit, in your case pubstomp really doesn't apply very well. You were asking to be pubstomped! rofl :p

JohannasGarden
01-14-2011, 07:34 AM
Technically the OP could be wrong, people could friend ppl that suck at the game. But come on, who's going to be friends with a noob?

So yeah, 99% of the time a team of friends in a public game are generally pub stomping, even if they don't think of it as such.

I have 182 people on my friends' list. About 175 of them are substantially better players than I am. A chunk of those were people who weren't so much better than I when I first added them, but a lot of them were. I'm usually nice (there are exceptions), sometimes funny, never rage quit, thank those who help me and give me good advice, and am a veritable fount of amusing mishaps to chuckle at. Lots of people don't look primarily at game skill when they add friends.

Mambini
01-14-2011, 07:36 AM
Ready when you are. All I need is a day or so notice (or a PM when online) and I'll scrape up a few of the 8PM Versus lot.

Cry havoc and let slip the daogs of L4D2!!!

Cool! See if we can extend this a bit more.. I like the idea of a big community with common points together.

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:37 AM
Cool! See if we can extend this a bit more.. I like the idea of a big community with common points together.

I'm not part of any l4d2 group, but I'm definitely willing to play. I've got about 500 hours under my belt. Not the most "1337" player out there, but I'm polite.

steam name is MordGesicht, hit me up

Lim214
01-14-2011, 07:38 AM
So because some people fail reverse because they very stupidly assume that they are all friends without checking profiles means that all reversers are the same as pubstompers.

Seems right to me.

Not a troll thread. Just tired of the common excuse that you and other people have that think that 4 friends don't have an advantage over pubs and while not all many, cry or rage when they start to lose.

All of them rage as soon as the tide turns against them. Most of them even have the nerve to rage when the scores are brought uncomfortably close even while they still have lead.

4 Friends? Go play Team Versus then. If more (any) of you did this, then there'd be Team Versus games TO play, then maybe some people could enjoy some actual competitive, close fought games.

but no, excuses and cowardice will continue to reign supreme.

RugbyOddjob
01-14-2011, 07:40 AM
Oh, sry.
Dont be mad.
I dont want make war about this thing, just saying there is things like language problems.


LOL don't stress it but after seeing 376,439 of these threads and especially the venom in this one I just knew you were stirring up another hornet's nest.

And I think MordGesicht hit the nail on the head: Playing with friends is how it should be.

It's not their fault that they function (socially) and can build up some like-minded friends to play with.

It's the randoms that are out of step, especially if they expect to click immediately with 3 other random people.

It's like sex with someone you don't know. Lots of "Ouch mind my hair" and "Oh no, not in that one please" and nearly always ending in one person's disapointment.

Get to know what your gaming partners are capable of, what they like, dislike and how they function. Then you will both get a satisfactory conclusion to some sweaty gaming.

LOL the analogy ot a bit mixed there ROFl XD :D

EDIT: +rep to MordGesicht and Mambini for being the voices of reason ;)

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:44 AM
LOL don't stress it but after seeing 376,439 of these threads and especially the venom in this one I just knew you were stirring up another hornet's nest.

And I think MordGesicht hit the nail on the head: Playing with friends is how it should be.

It's not their fault that they function (socially) and can build up some like-minded friends to play with.

It's the randoms that are out of step, especially if they expect to click immediately with 3 other random people.

It's like sex with someone you don't know. Lots of "Ouch mind my hair" and "Oh no, not in that one please" and nearly always ending in one person's disapointment.

Get to know what your gaming partners are capable of, what they like, dislike and how they function. Then you will both get a satisfactory conclusion to some sweaty gaming.

LOL the analogy ot a bit mixed there ROFl XD :D

Your totally right. Is it the friends fault that they possess the social skills required to play cooperatively?

I think it's so backwards how people's lack of acceptable human behavior online has turned friends into bad guys.

If possessing the ability to communicate and play cooperatively makes me a bad guy, then sue me. But don't you dare sit here and say I'm the root of all evil. Especially when it's YOUR crappy behavior that ruins the online scene.

It's okay, though. You only do it to compensate for your lack of sportsmanship.

princos70
01-14-2011, 07:50 AM
I guess my point is, if people spent less time worrying about who they're playing against/with, and more time remembering that it's just a GAME, and the point of a game is to have FUN, we'd all be a little better off.


Then don't worry about who you are playing against/with, remember this is only a game to have fun.

Do you want to be handholded into a game of non-quitters to avoid wasting your precious time or you are smart enough to find a friendly group by yourself?

Why care so much about playing with random people? Are you socially inept to get more than three friends?

Growit
01-14-2011, 07:50 AM
I remember when the game got out (left 4 dead 1), versus terrified me! I went alone, didn't knew no one..

Early understood that COOP (infected and survivors) was essential to be at least a competent player.

I must admit, in your case pubstomp really doesn't apply very well. You were asking to be pubstomped! rofl :p

Yep, COOP is the way to start knowing the game.

Hah, yeah i was asking for it.... :D

I still find it hilarious that when we were in the lobby, people come in and leave 5 second later when they see that we are friends...

Even that they can clearly see that half of out "team" was newbies.
I dont try to hide that im plying with guys in my friend list.
Profiles should be allways public for all so you can see atleast the houers played in game.
Well, thats just my opinion....

I remember what it was like the first games i had vs.
And i dont want same sh** to other newbies.
Thats why i add newbie players in my frien list too.

How can they learn if no one tell them what to do...

Mambini
01-14-2011, 07:51 AM
I'm not part of any l4d2 group, but I'm definitely willing to play. I've got about 500 hours under my belt. Not the most "1337" player out there, but I'm polite.

steam name is MordGesicht, hit me up

Better yet. I will invite you to a group..

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:53 AM
Then don't worry about who you are playing against/with, remember this is only a game to have fun.

Do you want to be handholded into a game of non-quitters to avoid wasting your precious time or you are smart enough to find a friendly group by yourself?

Why care so much about playing with random people? Are you socially inept to get more than three friends?

What? You didn't answer my question.

Are you trying to troll? Or are you really this dumb?

Mambini
01-14-2011, 07:57 AM
Then don't worry about who you are playing against/with, remember this is only a game to have fun.

Do you want to be handholded into a game of non-quitters to avoid wasting your precious time or you are smart enough to find a friendly group by yourself?

Why care so much about playing with random people? Are you socially inept to get more than three friends?

This is the type of answers you give to people that made me block your posts a few months back!

*They are still blocked, just couldn't stop noticing mord quote.

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 07:59 AM
This is the type of answers you give to people that made me block your posts a few months back!

*They are still blocked, just couldn't stop noticing mord quote.

Yeah I've just about had enough of this guy. His post:rep count is a good way to judge how much of an asshat he is.

Cymen90
01-14-2011, 08:03 AM
nope. communication is key. if you have 4 people playing with mics you will always stomp those who don't communicate.

Mambini
01-14-2011, 08:04 AM
Yeah I've just about had enough of this guy. His post:rep count is a good way to judge how much of an asshat he is.

This is like everything in life..

First you have a period of adaptation, In the beginning I was probably a little troll wandering around the forum, putting my nose on every thread, acting like the king of the banana!

People directed me through comments into the right place and I learned how to be useful but it seems some people insist on being like this.

DoorKn00b
01-14-2011, 08:05 AM
I pubstomp just to see you cry about it. No seriously, whatcha gonna do? I'm goonna play with my friends and you're gonna like it.

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 08:09 AM
This is like everything in life..

First you have a period of adaptation, In the beginning I was probably a little troll wandering around the forum, putting my nose on every thread, acting like the king of the banana!

People directed me through comments into the right place and I learned how to be useful but it seems some people insist on being like this.

Well, I followed suit and added him to my ignore list. No sense in stooping down to his level.

Ragers are gonna rage, while friendly people will continue to play. Just another way the world goes round. I've noticed, that while far and few between, the nice guys always remind me of how awesome this game can be.

The term "stomp" really needs to not be thrown around so much. It leads to poor sportsmanship, and ultimately, rage. If you can't accept defeat without throwing a hissy fit and calling people "pubstompers", then clearly, competition is not for you.

In a game like this, there always has to be a winner, and a loser. Making someone feel bad for winning is just as bad as spamming the forums with pubstomp threads.

The way I see it, if the team of "pubbers" is being polite and not spamming the chat with "LOLUMADBRO" and the like, then it's your responsibility to return the favor. Remember, this game is intended for mature audiences, so at least act mature, for all of our sakes.

Mambini
01-14-2011, 08:13 AM
I pubstomp just to see you cry about it. No seriously, whatcha gonna do? I'm goonna play with my friends and you're gonna like it.

Nice one. Be part of the plague that infects public games and never part of the solution. ;)

It's not my problem really, you are the one wasting time and returning to lobby or having real demanding matches against even players. And even if you are trolling, it wasn't funny. But what do you care, right ?

Optics233
01-14-2011, 08:14 AM
And guess what? There's nothing you can do about it because friends are entitled to play together. Get over it. :)

Growit
01-14-2011, 08:22 AM
nope. communication is key. if you have 4 people playing with mics you will always stomp those who don't communicate.

Yes.
That is the key to win games.
Even the newbie players can do fine attacks, IF the communication with team works fine.

For random games (when i play in team where people speak english) i have the basic things to say bind to a key.
And of course i can speak the basic things, but if i have to explain my team in RVS where the jockey ride me when they were boomed- Then things get difficould...

Thats why i mainly play with friends who speak the same language.
Its just so much easier to communicate.

MordGesicht
01-14-2011, 08:22 AM
And guess what? There's nothing you can do about it because friends are entitled to play together. Get over it. :)

This epic battle between ragers and friends is never ending. You see, ragers lack the intelligence and maturity to understand that they themselves are the real problem.

princos70
01-14-2011, 12:13 PM
And guess what? There's nothing you can do about it because friends are entitled to play together. Get over it. :)

Same way, non-friends are entitled to play an even match. Get over it.

Colinz
01-14-2011, 01:06 PM
Im sorry, but i want to play with my 3 friends, and im sorry Team Vs sucks ♥♥♥♥. This is a team based game for friends.

Karma Jockey
01-14-2011, 01:12 PM
4 friends playing togther is just 4 friends playing together. 4 friends playing together with the intent of stomping random pubs is a pubstomp.

Jayjones
01-14-2011, 04:09 PM
4 friends playing togther is just 4 friends playing together. 4 friends playing together with the intent of stomping random pubs is a pubstomp.

What if they both have intentions on a pubstomp??? OMMMMMMMGGGGG!!!1111!

OH YA??? what about 7 friends vs 7 other strangers that are all friends? That would be epic on a mod server :)

Optics233
01-15-2011, 07:55 PM
Same way, non-friends are entitled to play an even match. Get over it.

Um, what? No? That's not true at all. You're not entitled to a "fair match." Quit if you don't like your opponents. But people are entitled to play with whoever they want. It's their lobby. Make your own if you want a "fair match" and kick players who you think aren't "fair" to play against you.

skiddlywibble
01-15-2011, 08:31 PM
Inorite, some don't even get they have an advantage because they're all friends and are familiar with eachothers gameplay.

Actually, whenever I play with friends we just end up fighting, and get about halfway though a match before buggering off and cooling down to a cuppa. Truth be told, we normaly get along better when we're actually against each other.

prophecy holder
01-16-2011, 09:56 AM
Actually, whenever I play with friends we just end up fighting, and get about halfway though a match before buggering off and cooling down to a cuppa. Truth be told, we normaly get along better when we're actually against each other.

Those are not really good friends then.

GamingAwesome1
01-16-2011, 10:08 AM
Because, you know. God forbid that these four friends play the game like you're meant to...with three other good mates and some communication.

It's not their fault they have an idea of how to play.

Koga Shiro
01-19-2011, 05:47 PM
Hey princos, just out of curiosity, do you spend more time hopping from lobby to lobby than actually in game?

Honestly, that's THE BIGGEST problem with this community. They should seriously rename the game l4lobbyrage2.

I guess my point is, if people spent less time worrying about who they're playing against/with, and more time remembering that it's just a GAME, and the point of a game is to have FUN, we'd all be a little better off.

Half the battle is just getting a lobby filled, the other half is making it past map 1.

Are teams of friends REALLY the problem? Are you sure it isn't the ragers? REALLY? REALLY?!?!

I agree completely with the above post.

I can't imagine a plausible or credible scenario in which people regularly playing this game on public servers do not see how severe this problem is, unless they themselves are simply habitual gamehoppers who do not see the problem with that and do not wish it to be acknowledged by Valve.

Anytime you scratch even slightly under the surface on posters who vehemently insist that ragequitting isn't a problem, you tend to find someone who disregards entirely that games chronically ending in map 1 for no real reason at all is any sort of problem, and that people who want to play past map 1 are just "taking it too seriously or pubstomping."

atomicvenom
01-19-2011, 05:57 PM
Derp Derp... IT'S A 4v4 GAME MODE! WHICH YOU PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS!! IT'S WHAT YOUR SUPPOSE TO DO IDIOTS! AND YOUR WRONG BTW

[British Voice ON]

Well your all wrong old chap!

Pubstomp is where a CLAN join a versus game together and smash the day living ♥♥♥♥ out of everyone.

Playing with friends is just you have friends... they might be good or bad it still doesn't count.

[British Voice OFF]

SEE I TOLD YOU MORONS!

Buddy_88
01-19-2011, 06:07 PM
Just because 4 friends are trying to play the game with each other doesn't constitute a pubstomp. I was actually trying to play with 3 friends the other night and 1 person joined the lobby and was like "OMG pubstomping fa**ots." The funny thing is, if he waited and played with a group of pubbers they would have had a fair shot because my group has had many losses to pub teams.

If you elect to quick join a versus game you have to expect to be at a disadvantage, but thats the whole challenging aspect and at times 1 person can make a significant difference, especially on the survivor side.

4 friends doesn't = elite. This game was meant to be played amongst group of friends. If you lack in steam friends to play with, maybe it's because you bail before playing games with anyone.

Tyrant vs Tank
01-19-2011, 07:59 PM
Vanilla VS should be random only, non friend games. If you wanted to further separate it from the rest. Team scramble after each map.

Realism VS/TEAMRVS/TEAMVS should be friends only

All fairness though competitive gamemodes are always the good and bad/death of any game. The good being able to play against other people. The bad/death being the most scrutinized gamemode of any game with people always wanting things their way and that's any game not just this lukewarm supported franchise.

There is no happy medium when everyone wants a W.

Growit
01-20-2011, 03:59 AM
Vanilla VS should be random only, non friend games. If you wanted to further separate it from the rest. Team scramble after each map.


NO.
Only thing needed is on option of "random character only"
So if people want to play solo with randoms they search lobbyes for randoms.

princos70
01-20-2011, 04:52 AM
I agree completely with the above post.

I can't imagine a plausible or credible scenario in which people regularly playing this game on public servers do not see how severe this problem is, unless they themselves are simply habitual gamehoppers who do not see the problem with that and do not wish it to be acknowledged by Valve.

Anytime you scratch even slightly under the surface on posters who vehemently insist that ragequitting isn't a problem, you tend to find someone who disregards entirely that games chronically ending in map 1 for no real reason at all is any sort of problem, and that people who want to play past map 1 are just "taking it too seriously or pubstomping."

Your problem is easy to solve, play with seven friends not just three.

But I suppose more than one year after the launch you already play in your private clan server anyways, why bother rageposting in the forums?

Peegee
01-20-2011, 07:34 AM
My {FTP} clan has like 12 members or something. We can have our own clan game. Is that a stomp or overkill or comp stomp or what?

fpsbrian
01-20-2011, 07:57 AM
It's a setup from valve.... they sold the game as a "4 pack"

CosmicD
01-20-2011, 08:03 AM
yep, 4 friends = pubstomp, unless they are worse than the pubs :)

Mambini
01-20-2011, 08:07 AM
Your problem is easy to solve, play with seven friends not just three.

But I suppose more than one year after the launch you already play in your private clan server anyways, why bother rageposting in the forums?

"Play with friends" is probably the greatest excuse ever for the flaws of matchmaking of both left 4 deads.

Did it do any good for the original ? No!

Is it doing any good for the sequel ? No!

The first one is almost dead, with a base of 3000 players per day.

The second one is following the same path. If you think public games are ok then you obviously are part of the plague that infects the public scene.

If players point the problem, why should it be ragepost ?

*I really try to ignore your posts but I can't help myself on answering.

princos70
01-20-2011, 10:10 AM
"Play with friends" is probably the greatest excuse ever for the flaws of matchmaking of both left 4 deads.

Did it do any good for the original ? No!

Is it doing any good for the sequel ? No!

The first one is almost dead, with a base of 3000 players per day.

The second one is following the same path. If you think public games are ok then you obviously are part of the plague that infects the public scene.

If players point the problem, why should it be ragepost ?

*I really try to ignore your posts but I can't help myself on answering.

Many users here read me too fast and don't understand correctly.

At this point in time, I suppose Valve will include it as L4D3 "new feature", followed with "random paths in versus maps".

I got tired of requesting a true matchmaker (as a clan player of some sort, or public player, yeah, I have experience in both), since many months ago (maybe one year).

After waiting too much, same with "community maps as free Dlc" or "improved Specials" or "tutorial mode", I simply don't care anymore, because the game is well past the point of no return (imho).

Just play the game in the current form and don't think (much less "hope", lol) about changes that will never come.

It's too late to save this game from demise. Could have lasted more years if treated properly much sooner after launch.

Xalphin
01-20-2011, 10:48 AM
4 friends will play together with or without your approval, so.. get over that.

Play with 7 friends instead of just 3. Get over it.

I pubstomp just to see you cry about it. No seriously, whatcha gonna do? I'm goonna play with my friends and you're gonna like it.

And guess what? There's nothing you can do about it because friends are entitled to play together. Get over it. :)

Have fun getting reversed, then crying to me about how we're a pubstomp and you're just "4 friends" then immediately raging after accusing us of hax.

Your totally right. Is it the friends fault that they possess the social skills required to play cooperatively?

I think it's so backwards how people's lack of acceptable human behavior online has turned friends into bad guys.



Because, you know. God forbid that these four friends play the game like you're meant to...with three other good mates and some communication.

It's not their fault they have an idea of how to play.

Derp Derp... IT'S A 4v4 GAME MODE! WHICH YOU PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS!! IT'S WHAT YOUR SUPPOSE TO DO IDIOTS! AND YOUR WRONG BTW

[British Voice ON]

Well your all wrong old chap!

Pubstomp is where a CLAN join a versus game together and smash the day living ♥♥♥♥ out of everyone.

Playing with friends is just you have friends... they might be good or bad it still doesn't count.

[British Voice OFF]

SEE I TOLD YOU MORONS!

Just because 4 friends are trying to play the game with each other doesn't constitute a pubstomp. I was actually trying to play with 3 friends the other night and 1 person joined the lobby and was like "OMG pubstomping fa**ots." The funny thing is, if he waited and played with a group of pubbers they would have had a fair shot because my group has had many losses to pub teams.



Nope. You are all part of the problem. This is the attiitude that prevents people with 4 from playing teamvs. If you have 4 you should play teamvs end of story. Too much, OMG we're not leet clan members we just play for fun so were going to play regular vs! Derp!

No you are the people who ruined teamvs by not playing it an allowing it to turn into a ghost town.

MordGesicht
01-20-2011, 11:30 AM
Have fun getting reversed, then crying to me about how we're a pubstomp and you're just "4 friends" then immediately raging after accusing us of hax.









Nope. You are all part of the problem. This is the attiitude that prevents people with 4 from playing teamvs. If you have 4 you should play teamvs end of story. Too much, OMG we're not leet clan members we just play for fun so were going to play regular vs! Derp!

No you are the people who ruined teamvs by not playing it an allowing it to turn into a ghost town.

facepalm...

Have you played team vs? Or should I say, that trainwreck of a VS mode Valve calls "Team VS"? Even before everyone stopped playing it, it was horrible. 25 minutes on average for my friends and I to ever find a game, and if anybody RQ's, you're permanently man-down. No thank you, I'll stick to playing regular VS WITH my friends.

People who take this game too seriously are the problem. People who get insanely jarateed because they messed up an attack are the problem. People who expect everyone to be as good as them are the problem. People who constantly check if anybody is friends with eachother and then instaquit in lobby, ARE the problem.

Friends, however, are simply not. We are the ones playing the game as intended. We have fun, and that's it. You can't blame everyone who plays with friends just because there are people out there who intend to "pubstomp". Instead, attack them, because now the entire community is at odds over this. It's just ridiculous.

If you want to play this game competitively, then play on comp servers. Don't play pub games. That doesn't mean that every single "team" of friends is just that, a "team". And I can assure you, if you pubbers just try a little communication/coordination, you might be a little better off.

Koga Shiro
01-20-2011, 12:48 PM
Your problem is easy to solve, play with seven friends not just three.

But I suppose more than one year after the launch you already play in your private clan server anyways, why bother rageposting in the forums?

If this game is not going to be supported to be playable functionally with less than 8 people then that disclaimer ought to be on the box.

You're just making poor excuses, and you know it.

Phaseshifter
01-20-2011, 01:32 PM
There is no such thing as a pubstomp. It's a term created by people who can't handle losing.

There is no way anyone can garantee that they'll beat the other team, short of playing in their own server and abusing admin rights to MAKE the other team lose. THAT would be a stomp.

So you can't "stomp" anyone from the start.

Why the hell would you want to play against ppl who can't play the game right anyway?

cico34
01-21-2011, 12:01 AM
Not a troll thread. Just tired of the common excuse that you and other people have that think that 4 friends don't have an advantage over pubs and while not all many, cry or rage when they start to lose.

Well of course they have an advantage! They're all friends, they know how to communicate, and can somewhat foresee the other 3 friends moves.
But that doesn't mean they pubstomp. Unless it's illegal to play with friends now.

Have you never thought something like: Hey, I feel like playing L4D2 with my buds.
*Messages*
You are now playing with 3 friends, just for the heck of it.

princos70
01-21-2011, 03:49 AM
Have fun getting reversed, then crying to me about how we're a pubstomp and you're just "4 friends" then immediately raging after accusing us of hax.


Why you quoted me?

I don't know where the phrase:
"Play with 7 friends instead of just 3. Get over it."

suggests that I have a team of three friends for pubstomping.

Mambini
01-21-2011, 04:02 AM
It's too late to save this game from demise. Could have lasted more years if treated properly much sooner after launch.

Actually, I don't agree. I still think left 4 dead 2 has potential..

On the recently formed RVS group, games have been happening a lot. We started with 3 members and we are already with 223 on a invite only group.

The community is alive, players are just lost on the public scene, wasting their time trying to finish games. This is the main problem, games that don't come to an end.

CosmicD
01-21-2011, 04:19 AM
i smell a reverse pubstomp the 30 first seconds of a game and i will rage 1 milisecond later :P

Stagger Lee
01-21-2011, 04:32 AM
i smell a reverse pubstomp the 30 first seconds of a game and i will rage 1 milisecond later :P


Don't be so sure. My team has been accused of pubstomping when none of us knew each other. Conversation in the beginning saferoom:

"Hi everyone"

Hi
Hello
What's up?

"Well, everyone has a mic. That makes it easy. No reading required."

Heh...yep
Agreed
This will be different.

"Cool. ok, let's work together here. I'll boom them when they get down to the kitchen."Ok.

I'll spit in there at the same time.
I'll charge them when they try to run out of it.
I'll try and pull one back in it too.


A team that works like this from the beginning appears to be a stomp but it's just 4 people who know the game well and how to communicate and work together.

Now, AFTER this game some of them may end up on my friends list for future games.

jasminethecat
01-21-2011, 04:51 AM
This is the main problem, games that don't come to an end.

Some games shouldn't be forced to play to the end. We're not entitled to make someone else keep playing a game that is affected by mismatched/pubstomp teams, griefers, other ragers, bad admins and laggy servers. Or even just bad attitudes.

I really think the best thing is to give people the option to give up gracefully (vote to give up), and the winning team should accept that with dignity. Your head should be equally inflated with "the other team gave up" as it is with "your team won". But unless people embrace the idea that not every match can and should be played to the end, the issues with pubstomps and RQs will never go away.

If you want to play the finale every time, play a campaign game.


Completely on topic, I think another option to help with avoiding pubstomps is to show if people are friends in a lobby or in a game. Just a text listing in the chat box when you join a lobby of "X is friends with Y", etc. and make a command to show the same listing in the console. This command needs to work when profiles are private.

jasminethecat
01-21-2011, 04:55 AM
Don't be so sure. My team has been accused of pubstomping when none of us knew each other.
...snip...

Stagger, you know that if you even play with ONE friend, some people here will say you're pubstomping. People do not accept losing and will blame anyone and anything for their loss instead of just sucking it up.

Either you're haxing or stomping. It's the only logical solution when you win.

MordGesicht
01-21-2011, 06:00 AM
Stagger, you know that if you even play with ONE friend, some people here will say you're pubstomping. People do not accept losing and will blame anyone and anything for their loss instead of just sucking it up.

Either you're haxing or stomping. It's the only logical solution when you win.

exactly, PEOPLE will always have something to say. So is it the friends fault? Is it the friends fault because people will never be happy and will always find something to p!ss and moan about. Why the hell do you think they sell this game in 4 packs? To play WITH your friends.

god, some people are just incredibly dumb to sit here and say playing with friends is somehow against the "code" of honor in l4d2. Please, just because you lack the social skills required to befriend someone, doesn't mean the rest of us have to play with a bunch of drooling monkeys.

Mambini
01-21-2011, 06:15 AM
If you want to play the finale every time, play a campaign game.

...

If i want to play a finale everytime, I post an announcement on the RVS! Group!
Finales are supposed to be played but this is not the point, so for me to enjoy a full game, you advice me to play campaign ?

Instead of trying to find devious arguments like forfeit voting systems, you need to realize that two even teams, with competent players can play a match where 99% of times the difference on the final score is of 200 points max. This will make players stay because there's still a chance to win!

The lack of matchmaking is the root of the problems this game faces, being it Ragequit, Pubstomp, Kick Player X for being a newbie..

If we had a proper MM, the reason this thread was created probably would not be an issue.


god, some people are just incredibly dumb to sit here and say playing with friends is somehow against the "code" of honor in l4d2. Please, just because you lack the social skills required to befriend someone, doesn't mean the rest of us have to play with a bunch of drooling monkeys.

We shouldn't be forced to do this, actually..It's even more difficult nowadays to find friends to add due to the quality of games because in 20 public games, probably just one comes to an end and believe in me when I say that on both teams there was something similiar to the chair game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQQZ9SGDLM&feature=related).

RugbyOddjob
01-21-2011, 06:39 AM
exactly, PEOPLE will always have something to say. So is it the friends fault? Is it the friends fault because people will never be happy and will always find something to p!ss and moan about. Why the hell do you think they sell this game in 4 packs? To play WITH your friends.

god, some people are just incredibly dumb to sit here and say playing with friends is somehow against the "code" of honor in l4d2. Please, just because you lack the social skills required to befriend someone, doesn't mean the rest of us have to play with a bunch of drooling monkies.

I was looking to snip this to save space but other than the minor spelling correction (sorry, I am the spelling police) I endorse this wholeheartedly.

+rep for common sense ;)