dod_mainz remake

[INsane_dod]

Having problems with packing this up at the moment. Pakrat is not going well for some reason :p Will have a download soon.

Anyway, most bugs are out, this should be OK for a run around (if pakrat plays ball!). Thanks to Splatt and sawcoach, I will put you guys in the final readme along with Grippy and others who made models.

Walk around VIDEO FOR NOW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STw9PumMpSU)

Finished packing it... found errors in Waldo's bunk beds vmf files... Pakrat fell over big time (been using it for years) and I had to use Map Analyst to pack it up... anyone else have Pakrat problems all of a sudden?

Anyway...

DOWNLOAD dod_old_mainz_rc1 (http://www.dodbits.com/downloads/MAPS/testmaps/dod_old_mainz_rc1.zip)

[Splatt]

The map is looking better and better Kim. I will have this put on our server for tonight's Clan Fun Night!

[Snoopius]

Looking good, it's now available on 82nd Rangers Server

Thanks for the map,keep them coming

Snoop

[sawcoach]

All loaded on the server mate.

[INsane_dod]

All loaded on the server mate.

If I see it on I will come over :) thanks.

EDIT: by the way coach... tick points are enabled for this map.

[limit]

Map looks realy good man i like the new paths u put in i think it will help for some cover and stuff :) keep up the good work mate

[Deadbringer]

Nice work


mirror by dayofdefeat.se (http://www.dayofdefeat.se)

Download ----> dod_old_mainz_rc1.zip (http://deadbringer.dayofdefeat.se/downloads/maps/dod_old_mainz_rc1.zip)

and some pics

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10000-1.jpg


http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10006-1.jpg


http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10005.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10004-1.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10003-1.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10002-1.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/dod_old_mainz_rc1/dod_old_mainz_rc10001-1.jpg

[INsane_dod]

Thanks for the screenies!
Depending on how well this handles lag, I have started to make another version that has 2 parallel routes on each side of the main center route.

Video in hammer editor. (http://www.youtube.com/user/INsanedod#p/a/u/0/lMboQYCtD2s)

[sawcoach]

Nice work mate.

Just wondering if you have any reason for the Mid flag to be at one end of the street & not more central.

[znollen]

very nice:D:D:D

[INsane_dod]

In the remake version that's exactly where the flag is on the 2.1 beta version and onwards.

Now... this next version is another thing, up to you if you like, I can make this a det map, 5 flag, double caps like ava and anzio.

Same as dod_schwetz remake, make a physical, same size map, use it as a base, then hack it up to suit source.

dod_snowcity_v3 was another that if you followed the old one exactly you find a lot of dynamic doors in it. That's fine and you can do that in source... but performance on multiplayer now takes a hit on some servers/clients. That's another map that needs a rethink... the dynamic doors and elevators have to go.

I figure you make a remake as close as possible to the dod one, then make a source version. We are now used to, what I call the CSS type gameplay, tight, fast, smaller maps . Whenever I remake a map it seems too big, they are all in fact exactly the same as the older version... within a unit...around one inch.

What do you think of these changes? SEE PIC (http://www.dodbits.com/downloads/MAPS/testmaps/dod_old_mainz_new%20paths.jpg)

Kim .

[Deadbringer]

I think you should keep it as close to original as possible,
but it might be a good idea to move the flag to the middle.

sorry for my SwedishEnglish :)

[Splatt]

but it might be a good idea to move the flag to the middle.

Having now played in on a server, I tend to agree with this comment.

[nohitreg001]

I have to agree, axis spawn is a maze.
I along with many others found it near impossible to leave the axis spawn area. We ran around often in different directions just to find ourselfs back at spawn. Please simplify it, it is way to complex.
Middle flag at present is a bottleneck for axis and a open field for Allies.
Slow down the flags to give axis a chance.

[Punishment]

I think you should alter the map as necessary to suit the DOD:S gameplay and to balance it out, while still staying true to the spirit of the original. I had to do the same thing with Palazzo (a remake/re-invisioning of dod_vicenza). There were just some areas that didn't make sense, and others that needed to be tightened up.

[INsane_dod]

Thanks all, you know, all those comments are just about how the old one played out, the spawn maze, bottle neck and so on, whole areas that did not make sense.
It was and still is a love it or hate it map.
I am hacking it up now :)
This is another reason I have not released a couple of other maps, there is a reason some maps are not remade, gameplay is different now, this proves it, dod_mainz plays out the same between the two dod versions, almost exactly, but our gameplay is tuned now to a ava / anzio or jagd / colmar layout.

Interesting... gives me a lot of direction now, thanks :)

Deadbringer, don't worry, keeping one version true to the old, I reckon 1 in 5 like it how it was, I am one of them, with the right team you can cap this out, the middle control is the key.

[Deadbringer]

Deadbringer, don't worry, keeping one version true to the old, I reckon 1 in 5 like it how it was, I am one of them, with the right team you can cap this out, the middle control is the key.

:)


I have tried to make dod_glider to Source

it is hard to have it so that it resembles the original map

[INsane_dod]

:)


I have tried to make dod_glider to Source

it is hard to have it so that it resembles the original map

Do you want a exact block work copy? I can whip one up, orange textures, same as this map (http://www.dodbits.com/dod/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89:porting-old-half-life-1-maps&catid=36:half-life-2-mapping&Itemid=69)

Did that to oslo (another mapper has that now), switch (arch)(in my editor partially complete), mainz, anzio, and a couple more.... just say the word and it will be done.

[Deadbringer]

Do you want a exact block work copy? I can whip one up, orange textures, same as this map (http://www.dodbits.com/dod/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89:porting-old-half-life-1-maps&catid=36:half-life-2-mapping&Itemid=69)

Did that to oslo (another mapper has that now), switch (arch)(in my editor partially complete), mainz, anzio, and a couple more.... just say the word and it will be done.


yes pls.. I appreciate that .. thanks
:D


Porting
I did something wrong when I tried it

do not know what

but it turned out like this

with baaad fps :)

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0001.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0000.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0004.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0006.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0009.jpg

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg434/Deadbringer_swe/map_lider/map_lider0002.jpg

[INsane_dod]

send the vmf to me if you like and I can look at optimization. The layout looks close enough to me :)

[Punishment]

From the one screenshot, it doesn't look like the hill by the glider is nearly steep enough.

[Deadbringer]

INsane_dod: sent vmf

Punishment: its handmade, took many screenshots of dod_glider :)

[Punishment]

INsane_dod: sent vmf

Punishment: its handmade, took many screenshots of dod_glider :)

Wasn't a criticism, just an observation.

[INsane_dod]

Bloody good good effort by eye mate! I am impressed, considering you did this by eye :) I know how hard that is... thunder was done the same way.
Punishment, you are correct, that hill is way too low by a good 200 units at least.
Deadbringer, I will keep the VMF on the side for now, I can see a lot of places where this map can be optimized real easy, the layout looks like it can be done without a lot of problems.

First I will make a quick de-compile of the dod version and using the same technique as dod_mainz, produce a multi slab set of images, this will give you a guide where all the old walls were in a xyz space. I am on annual leave soon, next week I have a huge amount of time and can whip up some basic block work if you wish with optimisation built in, ready for models and textures.

Older maps, like punishment pointed out before, have some areas that just don't make sense, don't fit the dods formula, up to you to make it work in the end :)

[dtastones]

Very nice again

[INsane_dod]

Deadbringer, dod_glider decompiled for you, making it a public file, others may like to look, others just note that this was done for Deadbringer and he may use it to make a whole new map...or not, I think with a few tweaks the map he has will do the trick anyway. Regard this as his file now, not mine.

Download (http://www.dodbits.com/downloads/MAPS/tutorial_maps/dod_glider_blocks.zip)

In the readme about that download...
This is a VMF, also a set of models and special large images, you need to install the files in the dod folder before opening the vmf in hammer. There are 3 sets of popular dods models, see the dod folder for info on authors, the folder dod\materials\maps\dod_glider has the special large images for the "slices".

Same method as I used in dod_mainz, open a old dod version bsp file in crafty, save as VMF, you get no block work but you do get entities like models in the xyz 3D space.

This is a base for doing a old version .bsp copy.

Method, how it was done
Using BSPslicer, images are made at 64 units apart, vmf and vmt's are made from them.

These are placed on blocks 64 units apart, starting at the very bottom, use the lowest model as a guide of the lowest map point, in this case it was the hedgehogs at the bottom of the radar hill.

You have to right click on the "env-model" select "Properties" and read what it was, now make a new model and get the best match from the dods set. Center the origins the same as the older "env_model"

Setting up the images...slices.
One image uses all the lines and contours, this one is used to set up the map, if you have a important model, you can make temporary blockwork that extends down to the most lower all layer image.

This sets up the x and y planes by moving around, spinning, resize, positioning the large slabs, apply 'fit" to the image every time you change the size. When that slab lines up with entities... leave it alone and never change it.

There other layers have all the block work in that 64 unit slice, from the lowest point to the highest point. The lowest block with all the lines on it is used as a guide, make another block the same size, apply the image to the top, press "Fit". Do this until all images are there, 64 units apart.

I always move each "slice" to a different visgroup and name it. See the User section of the Visgroup tools, turn them on and off, like level 6, it has the block work outlines for the top of the hill, around the radar.

Now turn off level 6, turn on level 5, the block work around the flak will come in to view... along with all other structures within that slice of the map.

You build your map up like that. Once done you have a near perfect guide of how the old one was in a 3D space.

I find this easy to do now, the block work I did last night was a total of 3 hrs.
if you have good hammer skills, can make vtf/vmf images it is possible.

I understand some find it hard, I am willing to do these for anyone that asks, I just turn on some good music and relax.

You will notice there is a few special "User" Visgroup, note the one "New Map" ...only make new block work from that group!

When you have enough block work that you consider a good base, turn off all Visgroup, now turn on all unwanted visgroup, select them all... delete them and get going on the map.

.

[Punishment]

If it will help, I'll take a look at the map in DOD:S and make sure it flows well. I can also add suggestions for hints and areaportals to the outside if you'd like deadbringer.

One question: are you going to set up the spawns exactly like they were in 1.3? If so, you may want to work out some sort of spawn protection for Axis who spawn in the flag house, so that an Allied player can't just camp the upstairs with an MG and kill people as they spawn.

[Deadbringer]

WOW that was quick, thought it would take several weeks :)

thanks so much


if you had been sitting next to me, I would hug you and never leet go :)


i know here is a lot of pro mapers. just wonder if its ok to ask you for some help???
because i think i need it.
im just a beginner


Punishment: all help is welcome

[Punishment]

You will notice there is a few special "User" Visgroup, note the one "New Map" ...only make new block work from that group!

When you have enough block work that you consider a good base, turn off all Visgroup, now turn on all unwanted visgroup, select them all... delete them and get going on the map.

.

I was curious what this looked like, but when I opened it, it looked like the .vmts and .vtfs for the slices were missing. Am I doing something wrong?

deadbringer, we'll be more than happy to help you with the map. If you'd like my advice with optimization, let me know.

[Deadbringer]

deadbringer, we'll be more than happy to help you with the map. If you'd like my advice with optimization, let me know.


thanks alot

[INsane_dod]

One question: are you going to set up the spawns exactly like they were in 1.3? If so, you may want to work out some sort of spawn protection for Axis who spawn in the flag house, so that an Allied player can't just camp the upstairs with an MG and kill people as they spawn.

Oh yeah... that was nuts spawning there.

[INsane_dod]

I was curious what this looked like, but when I opened it, it looked like the .vmts and .vtfs for the slices were missing. Am I doing something wrong?

deadbringer, we'll be more than happy to help you with the map. If you'd like my advice with optimization, let me know.

They are in the download, just checked...
dod_glider_blocks.zip\dod_glider_blocks\dod\materi als\maps\dod_glider

There is a dod folder with all the vmt and vtf's along with a few models used.
Check .... dod\materials\maps\dod_glider it should have 45 items... there is a extra VTF that has no VMT, I did not bother with it, it is the very top of the map.

[Punishment]

Perhaps we should continue the discussion about Glider in a new thread?

[Deadbringer]

Perhaps we should continue the discussion about Glider in a new thread?



agree


it was my fault
I took your thread :o

sorry Insane_dod

[INsane_dod]

I don't mind :)
The remake now has two paths either side, it is a lot bigger now so I have to trim some areas.

I stopped working on it as I am home on holidays and cleaning the house... and working on some improvements... wish it was as easy as hammer.
The very day I went on leave... I have what you Yanks call the "Asian Flu"...sick as a dead dog. Go figure, waited for this all year, Australia has summer now, 30Deg C hot days, sub tropical rain (that's normal here) ...and I have a winter flu.

Poo.

[Splatt]

Get well soon Kim!

[INsane_dod]

I made about 5 versions and still not happy, however I think I have it now, just hacked a few blocks on the old design works best.

Made new routes to deal with the center bottle neck. You can now access the center to the large axis area via the bunker.
Also knocked out some paths around the left and right of the center.

What this did was allow cover around the center, makes it easy to "back door" a sniper or MGer, they now have many exits to cover, some behind them.

There are new flags and positions. They have been placed on a timed run from the spawns....
Allies spawn to

Allied first... 8 seconds
Allied 2nd..... 11 seconds
Center......... 15 seconds
Axis 2nd....... 25 seconds
Axis first..... 18 seconds

Axis spawn to

Axis first.... 8 seconds
Axis second... 15 seconds
Center........ 16 seconds
Allied 2nd.... 25 seconds
Allied First.. 25 seconds

Picture of changes (http://www.dodbits.com/downloads/MAPS/testmaps/DOD_MAINZ_RC3.jpg), next step, revamp the overview to a simple style and I will put it up soon.... might make a new thread too :p