Combat is stupidly difficult

[Sleepy Ben]

Just bought Risen on the offer so I guess I've only wasted £10 but I'm still brassed off. The combat is frustratingly difficult even on normal difficulty. Its a basic principle that games are meant to be 'fun' and in general you start off learning the ropes against easy opponents.

Not with Risen - even with a sword and shield - blocking and strafing - I've died repeatedly against ... well ... everything. I'm not some noob who doesnt know how to play a game either. I've got 20 years of PC gaming under my belt.

Oddly enough the game that gets panned by Gothic fans - Arcania - is far more accessible. Yes the story is poor and the voice acting is laughably bad. The rolling around gets stale but it makes the combat easier and you can just get around and enjoy some of the stunning landscapes.

You Germans can make great cars but honestly you're **** at making games.

It doesnt help that the developers don't give a damn about fixing their game either - the mouse inversion doesn't stick. Every damn time I start the game I have to go into the controls and check the input before I can play. Its been reported on the Deep Silver forums and the games now a year old but they clearly couldn't care less.

[M4nkoRid3r]

Yes, stupid is the right word for it. I'm not a noob either and am quite capable at the combat strategies, but the design of risen combat makes me cringe, worse than gothic did.

[Maurog]

Odd, combat worked for me just fine. Blocking works, strafing works, once you get some weapon levels under your belt your moves even do decent damage. Some things can bash your shield out and then attack into the opening, just like you learn to do with enough weapon levels.

I'm talking normal difficulty by the way.

In the beginning, you encounter some "hungry" vultures and "starving" wolves which are the weak opponents you learn combat basics on. Block with rmouse, then attack them by using direction+lmouse. Direction+space to dodge.

[poordevil]

Easy is really not easy, try playing on that difficulty.

[M4nkoRid3r]

Odd, combat worked for me just fine. Blocking works, strafing works, once you get some weapon levels under your belt your moves even do decent damage. Some things can bash your shield out and then attack into the opening, just like you learn to do with enough weapon levels.

I'm talking normal difficulty by the way.

In the beginning, you encounter some "hungry" vultures and "starving" wolves which are the weak opponents you learn combat basics on. Block with rmouse, then attack them by using direction+lmouse. Direction+space to dodge.

We're not saying combat is broken, it's just clunky at best.

[Jashin]

Combat's fine. Honestly people gotta stop playing it like Diablo or Oblivion or whatever, where there aren't any combat system, just bashing each other's face till one drops dead.

Learn the system. There's a different way to fight humanoids, a way to fight beasts/undead, and a way to fight big monsters. And after the first half you learn a slash move that's basically so overpowered it replaces this system (they messed up on this).

Then again I've played all the Gothics.

[M4nkoRid3r]

Combat's fine. Honestly people gotta stop playing it like Diablo or Oblivion or whatever, where there aren't any combat system, just bashing each other's face till one drops dead.

Learn the system. There's a different way to fight humanoids, a way to fight beasts/undead, and a way to fight big monsters. And after the first half you learn a slash move that's basically so overpowered it replaces this system (they messed up on this).

Then again I've played all the Gothics.

Did you play Oblivion? Oblivion combat is a lot better, and more enjoyable... Diablo fulfils it's intended job too of being a good fun hack and slash

Having a system is fine, but the half-arsed procedure and execution in risen is the problem.

[Dragoon.x]

Combat is actually pretty awesome. It's all about skill. Study your foes, how they attack, charge, evade or block. Then think to use their behavior to your advantage.
You will see most creatures have a very specific way to fight.
A good example are wolfs. It's possible to defeat a black wolf with a lvl 1 Char. Of course when you get hit you are dead it takes ages for you to wear him down but with skill you can defeat him without ever get hit. When they leap towards you do a side step and swing at them, then jump backwards. Continue to walk backwards until they leap again and then repeat above.
If you do just button smashing better wait until you have acquired some decent armor.
Otherwise if you prefer skill play use combos, blocks, side step and back jumps moves to evade your foes, as nice side effect of a side step is that you can hit him in the flank with impunity.
Just jump away before they turn to retaliate, or block if your foe is a human.

[Grifta]

I have to second Dragoon.x here. With the right timing and practice, you can kill almost (not the several enormous monsters) anything regardless of you level. Like all Gothic games, it's incredibly stupid to run into the woods, poking wolves with a tree branch along the way... but you can.

[AbsintheMinded]

omg you found a game where you have to use your brain?

sorry "fun" means smashing buttons and instantly owning everything in every video game.

leave this game to people who enjoy using more than two braincells at a time.

[M4nkoRid3r]

So I'm dumb because I prefer a little more effort put into creating a smoother experience, for an aspect of the game players are in 80% of the time. Never mind PB doesn't give me many options in regards to personalising. Concept is great, the quality is not so great.

[Jashin]

Did you play Oblivion? Oblivion combat is a lot better, and more enjoyable... Diablo fulfils it's intended job too of being a good fun hack and slash

Having a system is fine, but the half-arsed procedure and execution in risen is the problem.

I did. Just Block, hit, backpeddle. There's bonus stealth damage if you sneak.

That's not a combat system. For anyone who's tried a real combat sport, boxing, fencing, Gothic's a lot closer to that.

You can call it "in the interest of noobies having fun" to set up the player to be so much faster than the npcs. It's still unrealistic. The fact that Gothic (minus Gothic 4, garbage) has a level playing field when it comes to combat b/w player and npc makes it hard, but x100 more rewarding.

I'm getting sick of so many nubbies not knowing how to play, I think I'm gonna reinstall Gothic 2 and make a video to teach you willy nilly hack & slash people.

[M4nkoRid3r]

I did. Just Block, hit, backpeddle. There's bonus stealth damage if you sneak.

That's not a combat system. For anyone who's tried a real combat sport, boxing, fencing, Gothic's a lot closer to that.

You can call it "in the interest of noobies having fun" to set up the player to be so much faster than the npcs. It's still unrealistic. The fact that Gothic (minus Gothic 4, garbage) has a level playing field when it comes to combat b/w player and npc makes it hard, but x100 more rewarding.

I'm getting sick of so many nubbies not knowing how to play, I think I'm gonna reinstall Gothic 2 and make a video to teach you willy nilly hack & slash people.


Sure, show me. Remember though I'm not the one calling risen combat difficult, I'm calling the technical quality of it clunky and stupid, and thought I had been arguing for that sake the whole time. I'm quite capable at it and enjoy it occasionally, but sometimes things just don't work when I know it should, and the whole experience could be a lot smoother.

Spellbound with ArcaniA did a horrible job too, so I'm starting to think Jowood was the problem, and PB was still in "Jowood mode" with risen. I do hope it's sorted in risen 2.

[Squid3d]

i didn't find the combat at all clunky and stupid. played through on the highest difficulty a few times and the only thing that bothered me much is when i pulled too many mobs. Then i found the combat to be lacking a tad.

of course, the less said about act 3 the better ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUM9MakdgkI

dodging ftw :)

[Porkdish]

A stable frame rate is incredibly important in this game. Timing the three (or more) attack string together is incredibly fast if you get the timing for each click perfect. Each weapon seems to have its own 'sweet spot' for timing. Get those swings down and practically nothing on the island can beat you one on one.

Being just slightly off can drastically increase the time it takes to pull off the three swing combo.

The same is true for dodging, you have a very small window to make perfect dodges and learning to dodge is good for later monsters. Wolves are a cake walk with a shield but later monsters spam an overpowered, ludicrously fast block break maneuver that also does damage.

I thought the combat was pretty good but it doesn't really evolve any from those first three minutes on the beach. The collision detection is fine for melee but it really seems projectile magic was a late afterthought.

Forget keeping enemies between you and magic casters, they can happily shoot fire balls right through their friendly units and hit you... god that was tedious.

[Jashin]

Magic is always the most difficult path in any PB games, cus early on you're always pathetically weak.

That's why most people take a dual-role of warrior/magician.

[Sleepy Ben]

Okay - having played for a few more hours and dropped it from Normal to Easy I stand by my earlier assessment. The combat is 'stupidly' diffcult.

Yes I can see there's a system and I can learn to dodge 'n' parry at the right times but the combat is such that its a focal point for the game - it feels more like Im playing a beat m up than an RPG.

Easy should be 'Easy' - one hit and that wolf is dead. That would allow me to play the game casually and wander round - see the scenery and meet people and focus on the story - NOT the combat.

But Risen isnt like that - too much game time is taken up in protracted fights with groups of low level creatures - it isnt fun - its tedious.

[pavel3]

I've enjoyed Risen's combat system as opposed to other games where you simply spam the left-click button.

[poordevil]

Okay - having played for a few more hours and dropped it from Normal to Easy I stand by my earlier assessment. The combat is 'stupidly' diffcult.

Yes I can see there's a system and I can learn to dodge 'n' parry at the right times but the combat is such that its a focal point for the game - it feels more like Im playing a beat m up than an RPG.

Easy should be 'Easy' - one hit and that wolf is dead. That would allow me to play the game casually and wander round - see the scenery and meet people and focus on the story - NOT the combat.

But Risen isnt like that - too much game time is taken up in protracted fights with groups of low level creatures - it isnt fun - its tedious.

It's true Easy is not easy, but it is doable. It actually gets a little more combat friendly as you get up some in level, like 7 or 8. Ya gotta remember that you have washed up on the beach with nothing, no armor no weapon, so you are the very bottom of the food chain. But I agree the Easy mode can be frustrating, I remember thinking if I wanted something this challenging I'd play Ninja Gaiden! But it is really only the earliest levels that are super hard, things never become a breeze, but they get much more player friendly. Also, things become less frustrating as you learn the combat system and grow confident by getting a few victories under your belt.

[Iemander]

Okay - having played for a few more hours and dropped it from Normal to Easy I stand by my earlier assessment. The combat is 'stupidly' diffcult.

Yes I can see there's a system and I can learn to dodge 'n' parry at the right times but the combat is such that its a focal point for the game - it feels more like Im playing a beat m up than an RPG.

Easy should be 'Easy' - one hit and that wolf is dead. That would allow me to play the game casually and wander round - see the scenery and meet people and focus on the story - NOT the combat.

But Risen isnt like that - too much game time is taken up in protracted fights with groups of low level creatures - it isnt fun - its tedious.

I don't think you get the game, the combat is supposed to reward the player. How rewarding would it be if you could just access everything from the get-go? That's basically what makes the game fun.

If you can't appreciate that, I think the game simply isn't for you.

[Dragoon.x]

If you lack the patience or skill to master combat you can still finish the game.
See combat is 100% skill based, no cheating and no randomness.
Based on that I can say the power of your weapon and armor merely tells you how many hit it takes to bring someone down, and how many mistakes you can commit before punished with death.

With that knowledge know each chapter will unlock a new faction armor that makes the primary foes you will encounter to push forward the story easy to take head on. For example the Ogres. They are really high damaging foes most of the time they kill you with one or two swings.
However with the last armor you unlock they are barely able to scratch you becoming push overs.

If you have big problems with combat, try leveling by doing mission that require little or no combat like errands, and pursuit the main story. Return when you have acquired a new armor and try again.

But like I said before with a strong will, a open eye for details and enough endurance you can beat everyone no matter what arms you bear and which armor you wear. I personally killed every monster and animal that I could reach in chapter one, including Ghouls, Ashbeasts and this rhinos in the northern temple. I even killed 3 of the reptilian warriors using a levitation scroll to reach them.
I depopulated the entire island. I even ruffed up and robed all the humans I could in chapter one.

See you can attack everyone that is not hostile to you. As long you don't kill them it has no consequences at all. Make sure you take the final swing with a melee weapon, they will not die but instead knocked unconsciousness.
They won't be angry at you for beating them up, and as long you did not commit murder they will not kill you should you lose. Which is important to know because some of the NPC's that are vital to the story are invincible. You can't beat them down. So either let them beat you or run away. If you come back later they will certainly mock you but have no hard feelings.

I finished chapter 1 with a level 23 char the bearing the berserker sword I secured in a westcoast waterfall cave.

[Iemander]

But like I said before with a strong will, a open eye for details and enough endurance you can beat everyone no matter what arms you bear and which armor you wear. I personally killed every monster and animal that I could reach in chapter one, including Ghouls, Ashbeasts and this rhinos in the northern temple. I even killed 3 of the reptilian warriors using a levitation scroll to reach them.
I depopulated the entire island. I even ruffed up and robed all the humans I could in chapter one.

I did exactly the same thing, combat in Risen is incredibly rewarding and addictive. Basically it's the strength of the game. Trying to lower the difficulty from normal and expecting to stroll around the island..., that's really just silly.

[Xiro17]

Let me make a few suggestions to those who feel the combat is... Well... Bad in Risen. It's not, and I'm not saying those of you who can't 'do it' are dumb, but maybe just a bit misguided as to what RPG combat mechanics should be like, and not more like the rest of the pack *cough* Oblivion *cough*... (I can say that because I own all of the TES games, boxes and all, not the cheap downloads Bethesda released for the new fans who probably don't waste the time to play them because the graphics are highly outdated). BUT, OB's combat system is saved for another day, as this is about Risen.


The combat mechanics are all about timing (like every other person has said. This means, with no enemies around, learn how to pull-off the combos, as this is your chance for survival. You can easily play through the entire game with a club or a tree branch (Yes, really, you can - I have, and while it's not "fun" in the sense of uber-pwnage, it's very rewarding, AND challenging... We need CHALLENGING games, not a walk in the park).

There is a quicksave feature. Use this to your advantage to understand how each enemy attacks. Basically, find an enemy, stand far off away so it's AI doesn't detect you and QUICKSAVE. Now, mosey on up to that enemy with your shield or weapon in BLOCK mode, and just watch the enemy attack you for a few minutes. You'll quickly see they generally stick to a specific pattern, never deviate from it, and each enemy type (any skin of wolf, for example) will typically stick to the same pattern (except the black wolf, as instead of 3 lunges they generally lunge 5-7 times). If for whatever reason you die, just hit quickload. This tip is also helpful if you're low on healing items (though you shouldn't be)and you're charting new territory).

Once the enemy has completed it's attack, it'll stand back, much like it has lost stamina and cannot attack - THIS is your opening - wherein if you have figured out the 'sweet spot' of that weapon you'll successfully hit the enemy 3 times before they dodge away. As you gain weapon levels, you'll unlock larger combos, and different attacks to boot.

Once you get the basics of block/attack/block, don't hesitate to start throwing in some dodging, as the side-dodge maneuver is extremely fun to execute on the boars and vultures when they charge you.

Lastly, if you have a controller, use it. Chances are you're used to this input device, and it makes the game much easier for those trying to learn the combat system in this game. As we all know, Risen is a console port, which takes A LOT of things away from what the game could have been.

Oh! Before I forget: If you don't want to spend the time with swords and staves, then why not try your hands with archery/crossbows? I leveled up both swords and crossbows to level 7 each, just so I could attack my enemies at range, while luring them in for the kill. Also, there's a nifty crossbow trick which allows you to get the range you need from your enemy: You must be able to judge distance well for this to work. At range, attack your foe. As they run to you, you should be able to pull off one more attack - at this point, quickturn (180 degree) and jump a few times. Your jump moves faster than running, thus allowing you the needed range. I found this trick out completely by accident when I was about to be killed off by an Ogre at level 6 (yeah, I like challenges, what about it?). Needless to say I ran out of bolts before I could do any REAL damage to him, but if you're having a hard time with the game, this can help add a few experience levels...

This game isn't meant to be a hack'n'slash where you have 1 million hit points and your enemy has 5. It's not meant to hold your hand, tell you where to go in meticulous detail with arrow pointers and flags, how to do this and that, and yadda yadda yadda. Heck, even the reviews TELL YOU THIS about the game. Out of all the cRPG's I've played (probably more than a majority of the users on this forum) Risen is easily in the top 10, if not top 5. But while it's a great game, there are many aspects it cannot top from earlier works like many of the dungeon crawlers based off the D&D rule-sets...

Another great game, with slightly easier combat mechanics, would be Divinity II. The only downfall to that game is the massive amount of micromanaging towards the beginning of the game - but if you're into that, then go for it. It was a solid experience as well, but the combat system was much more... Hack'n'slashy, and not so much technical.

[EE foxytype]

Yep, I just got this game in the sales and I must say that I'm impressed with it so far. It holds my interest exceedingly well.

The combat was a bit of a surprise to me at first but, you learn. After I had learnt I started to like it and get satisfaction from it. I now actually enjoy fighting the reptiles :)

Another major plus as far as I'm concerned is that the game does not come complete with a built-in walkthrough suitable for 10 year-olds - congratulations to Piranha Bytes for that.

[Cadfael]

I don't need a challenging game. You want a challenge, put another human being through university. I'm too damn old to get off on timing puzzles. Skill? I got skills, but they work in the real world. I want entertainment, thats why I like to play on easy.

I'm just flipping through the magazine, I don't want to have to write a summary of every article to get the good grade. I just want to audit the game not take the damned exams.

Hate the combat because I have to do so damn much of it over again. If I find myself sighing while trying to go through on "easy" the game hits the shelves and I don't buy another one by the same or similar development team.

[nascent]

I just stormed through Divinity II + Flames of Vengeance, buying 'Risen' as my new fix. I have to say, I don't understand the complaint about combat. It's straightforward, simple, and maybe only complicated by camera which doesn't want to co-operate all of the time.

I don't know, combat is 'fine'.

[jeffreydean1]

I don't need a challenging game. You want a challenge, put another human being through university. I'm too damn old to get off on timing puzzles. Skill? I got skills, but they work in the real world. I want entertainment, thats why I like to play on easy.

I'm just flipping through the magazine, I don't want to have to write a summary of every article to get the good grade. I just want to audit the game not take the damned exams.

Hate the combat because I have to do so damn much of it over again. If I find myself sighing while trying to go through on "easy" the game hits the shelves and I don't buy another one by the same or similar development team.

Do I even need to say at this point that this game obviously isn't for you and you didn't do your research if you bought it?

[DeViLzzz2007]

For the people saying combat is fine are you the type of gamer that when you complete a game you don't mind that you have died more than the 3 times they used to give you in the arcades for 1 quarter in the 80s ? For me I don't like dieing too much and will start a game over if I have done more than 3 to 5 continues (died 3 to 5 times). I am just curious as to how many people that acknowledge the combat is more difficult than other games still try for perfection or near perfection when playing Risen .....

[Dragoon.x]

For the people saying combat is fine are you the type of gamer that when you complete a game you don't mind that you have died more than the 3 times they used to give you in the arcades for 1 quarter in the 80s ? For me I don't like dieing too much and will start a game over if I have done more than 3 to 5 continues (died 3 to 5 times). I am just curious as to how many people that acknowledge the combat is more difficult than other games still try for perfection or near perfection when playing Risen .....

Sound more like an personal issue than one with the game itself. You should consider using bow and magic (espcially ice magic) to avoid melee against monsters and the risk for you to start completely over. Against humans in most cases you don't fight to death unless they witness you commit murder or got a specific order to kill.
Anyway to quote Star Trek: "The weak will perish."

[Larry1212]

The combat isn't hard. I just find that enemy levels are ♥♥♥♥ing steep and if you make the mistake of running into a group of enemies you obviously shouldn't go near untill much later in the game you're ♥♥♥♥ed as they chase you relentlessly. It's deaths like that which make the combat -- and game -- a ♥♥♥♥ing nightmare to play. I don't mind them placing hard enemies around the map but I do mind not knowing the difference between a Hungry Wolf and a Wolf(Where the latter takes upwards of 20 hits to kill and former only taking 3 with their damage dealt scailing in comparison) untill it's chewing on my leg and my character is on the ground screaming for help(This does not happen) two seconds before he's dead.

It's a huge oversight I feel and a valid complaint. The combat, in essence, isn't hard. It's relatively straightforward and can be quite fun. What's annoying is the inability to see which enemies you should straight out avoid and which you can take on. There isn't even a visual deter for tougher enemies.

Dying because a level 50(Exaggeration) mob is in the begining area, right beside a level 1 mob is not fun, it's just stupid. I've found I need to avoid every enemy and to notes of areas with deadly enemies i've found after I die.

[Dragoon.x]

The combat isn't hard. I just find that enemy levels are ♥♥♥♥ing steep and if you make the mistake of running into a group of enemies you obviously shouldn't go near untill much later in the game you're ♥♥♥♥ed as they chase you relentlessly. It's deaths like that which make the combat -- and game -- a ♥♥♥♥ing nightmare to play. I don't mind them placing hard enemies around the map but I do mind not knowing the difference between a Hungry Wolf and a Wolf(Where the latter takes upwards of 20 hits to kill and former only taking 3 with their damage dealt scailing in comparison) untill it's chewing on my leg and my character is on the ground screaming for help(This does not happen) two seconds before he's dead.

It's a huge oversight I feel and a valid complaint. The combat, in essence, isn't hard. It's relatively straightforward and can be quite fun. What's annoying is the inability to see which enemies you should straight out avoid and which you can take on. There isn't even a visual deter for tougher enemies.

Dying because a level 50(Exaggeration) mob is in the begining area, right beside a level 1 mob is not fun, it's just stupid. I've found I need to avoid every enemy and to notes of areas with deadly enemies i've found after I die.

It's not an oversight but an openworld RPG. The Gothic series was always about an open world free roam and explore. Including meeting foes you aren't ready to face yet. But you can adapt to this situation find a way around or just turn back and come back later.
Remembers me of a post the lead designer of Dragon Age once wrote, where he answered to the claims part of the game were too difficult.
He noted a certain percentage of the players can't get hot with the idea of a open world RPG as their inability to turn back when facing stiff opposition and come back when stronger. Instead of turning around they run against the wall over and over again before quitting completely in frustration.
The opposite is either an RPG with limited exploration and areas which unlock successively as you grow stronger. A guided game for example like the Neverwinter Nights series. Or have leveled monster lists like in The Elder Scrolls where you can freely explore but everyone levels with you.
Once you are past level 6 you won't meet any rats even if going back to the starting areas and the lowest hinterland waylayer carries a full set of daedric amour. Seeing the amount of mods that address exactly this issue for Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout I assume this solution isn't favored either.

[pintu]

what ive found is you alwats get attacked while your swinging your sword cuasing you not to be able to block and you dont end up hitting anything, how do you stop this?

[orphiuchus]

Anyone who says this combat isn't ♥♥♥♥ is a contrarian ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. They see someone complain about difficulty, and apparently needing an ego boost they rant about how its fine and how the complainer must suck at the game. Sorry guys, its clunky, its unfun, and on "easy" your main quest required even level opponents do 5 times as much damage to you as you do to them. ♥♥♥♥ing horrible.

[Metro]

This is why we have level scaling and push A for awesome 'RPG's now. The combat is challenging but not harshly so. Xbox generation cannot into Gothic games, I guess.

[Dragoon.x]

Anyone who says this combat isn't ♥♥♥♥ is a contrarian ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. They see someone complain about difficulty, and apparently needing an ego boost they rant about how its fine and how the complainer must suck at the game. Sorry guys, its clunky, its unfun, and on "easy" your main quest required even level opponents do 5 times as much damage to you as you do to them. ♥♥♥♥ing horrible.

Profanity is loss of control and trouble of expressing oneself clearly.

[flex12]

The combat is not difficult at all. You can kill everything even without ever putting any points in Strengh or Weapons.
Just learn it. If it's too hard for you, then play more casual games. This game is just a bit more hardcore (stupid word i know).

[orphiuchus]

Profanity is loss of control and trouble of expressing oneself clearly.

Its funny, your post is almost illegible from being so poorly worded and mine makes perfect sense. I guess seeing hearts block swear words offends you so deeply that you can't even form a proper sentence.


Anyway, I still hate the combat. I've leveled up quite a bit and I'm about 10 hours in, and to be fair the combat did get a little better. A little. I can win even level fights finally, but the fights consist of about 50 blocks, dozens of yards of dodging, and 3 or 4 actual hits. Hell, there are numerous enemies in the game that can only be killed with their back to the wall because they dodge all frontal attacks.

And what, exactly, is a bloat worm using to block my overhand bastard sword swing into its head? Is it related to the way it teleports backwards 5 feet to avoid my attacks?

Its a real pity because I really love almost everything else about this game. With better combat, better character models, and fewer super-ugly graphics glitches this would be in my top 10.

[vahnn]

Ben: If you don't like the combat, then fine, tell us you don't like the combat. You admitted yourself that it's not broken.

Don't come on these forums spouting off about how the combat sucks and this game is awful. The game is features fantastic combat that requires you to observe and learn the patterns of each enemy and exploit weaknesses in their fighting style. If you can't grasp this concept and want to just mash your attack button until the other guy's HP hits 0 before yours, I suggest you find another game.

This one is excellent, and I wouldn't have it any other way.:D

[Delicieuxz]

Someone should make a thorough youtube tutorial video showing all the moves and techniques of Risen's combat.

[Metro]

Why? All people have to do is read the obvious pop up messages that appear on your screen describing new moves when you advance in a particular weapon skill.

[Bague]

oh wow, all those target-lock console shooters really ruined todays players.


go play devil may cry 3 or something and then come back and complain about combat difficulty.

[xzoltan]

As almost everyone already said, I agree that all the people complaining, this just isn't the game for you. The combat is very freaking hard right in the beginning, but once you get into it, you learn.

Todays gaming industry is just struck by the fact that my dead grand mother should be able to go to a store, pick up ANY game, and be able to play it with the mouse using only 1 button.

If this game is either too hard, or you are just looking for more simple games, but by all means, why the hell don't you just move on to another game? It might be beautiful, it might have a lot of good aspects that oyu like, but if a big portion of the game IS combat, and you hate it's guts for it, why the hell would you torture yourselef playing this game? There are TONS of other games out there. Move on.

Think about the difference between a bad game, and you not liking the way it's done. There is a HUGE difference.

And just a side note, I suck at this game. I've died so many times, even gotten angry, but I love it. I'm getting really tired of all the new games holding your hand all the way through the game, not even letting my think 1 thing for myself.

[Zenstrive]

the best part about Piranha's Bytes game is the fact that you really feels like you are playing as a person and not as an avatar for statistics.

[bropalm]

I haven't read this whole thread so someone might have said this before, but here's what I did when I played the game.

If I encountered an enemy that could kill me in 1 or 2 hits and could take many more from me then I avoided it until I got a better weapon or trained my skill. Getting a higher skill, better armor or better weapon makes a BIG difference (bigger than in most other games)! Enemies that took you ages to kill can now be killed in just a few hits.

That's how I played the game as a Sword and Shield user... I don't think I even used the side-step dodge move much at all, and I beat the game.

The game isn't so hard, just come back later if there's a specific enemy you find hard to kill.

[NoBridges]

Combat isn't THAT difficult. Besides, it gets easier as you level up and get better gear. Did you expect someone to hold your hand through the entire game? It's not made by Bethesda you know. If it's too hard then level up, spend some learning points and come back later.

Does this look "stupidly difficult" to you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnCDkgaxxrQ
Here's one with a shield, which makes it even easier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAearoIRMRU

Make good use of dodge (space bar + a/s/d keys) as your blocking ability with a knife (...) is rather limited. It's important that you grab a hunting knife from the corpse on the beach and a shield near the first ruin you run into.

[Maiser]

Did you managed to install it? :O, my activation request did neither work.... Have you guys used manual instalation or automatic one?

[M@d|\|ess]

I love Risen's combat system, and I love Gothic I / II combat systems even more. It's not even hard to use. <_<

[dementedlullaby]

You Germans can make great cars but honestly you're **** at making games.



Lolwut.

[soviet_sharkey]

The games combat is easy once you learn patterns and get good equipment

[Petsura]

Same story, different game.
People can't figure out how the controls work>Gothic is bad.
People can't figure out how to fight>Risen is bad.

Stop being narrow-minded and take a bit of time to get familiar with the system before you start bashing the game for no reason.
There is absolutely nothing difficult about it and once you realize this you might experience a level of fun you can't even get from Elder Scrolls games.

[Tadonga]

Combat is actually pretty awesome. It's all about skill. Study your foes, how they attack, charge, evade or block. Then think to use their behavior to your advantage.
You will see most creatures have a very specific way to fight.
A good example are wolfs. It's possible to defeat a black wolf with a lvl 1 Char. Of course when you get hit you are dead it takes ages for you to wear him down but with skill you can defeat him without ever get hit. When they leap towards you do a side step and swing at them, then jump backwards. Continue to walk backwards until they leap again and then repeat above.
If you do just button smashing better wait until you have acquired some decent armor.
Otherwise if you prefer skill play use combos, blocks, side step and back jumps moves to evade your foes, as nice side effect of a side step is that you can hit him in the flank with impunity.
Just jump away before they turn to retaliate, or block if your foe is a human.

This.

Same story, different game.
People can't figure out how the controls work>Gothic is bad.
People can't figure out how to fight>Risen is bad.

Stop being narrow-minded and take a bit of time to get familiar with the system before you start bashing the game for no reason.
There is absolutely nothing difficult about it and once you realize this you might experience a level of fun you can't even get from Elder Scrolls games.

And this.

Well said.

[Steadios]

i find the combat realistic and fun, yeah its hard but a lot of games today are real easy, and a lot you dot die just respawn, i think its more of a challenge like old rpg,s use to be like ultima underworld where you found yourself running away a lot!

[Leshma]

Combat in Risen isn't hard at all. I've finished it on hardest difficulty and even managed to kill pack of wolves as level one (took me 20 minutes).

Mount & Blade: Warband has the most realistic and also hardest to master combat of all PC games. Compared to it Risen is pretty easy.

[kbe2k9]

Combat is pretty easy once you get the hang of it, though I did exploit Fred quite a bit he's a great distraction when you want to do charge attacks.

[Oreiller]

While I agree that the combat system is fun and rewarding, I still have to say that the lock-on can pretty much screw you when battling against several enemies. It doesn't change the fact that it's otherwise very well done but it can be annoying at times.

[kaboro]

The fight system in Risen annoyed me horribly for the first few hours, but once i started figuring a few things out, it became one of the best fight systems i experienced, and Risen one of the best games i played.

There are quite a few things that can get a player frustrated in Risen:

1. there are several mobs in the begining areas that are very hard to defeat for a low level player, so if you attempt to fight them, its very likely you will lose.
Now you have to understand that you dont HAVE to fight those mobs. Just like the loading screen tip says: leave it alone and come back later.

2. depending on your choice of weapons, some fights might be a lot harder than they could be.
For me, the shield worked wonders in the early part of the game.

3. some fights require using the terrain to your advantage, like when you fighting a group of wolves, you have to run to a narrower place where they cant run circles around you and the fight will be a lot easier.

4. this game offers total freedom, including the freedom to screw your character build, thus making the game extremely hard. Thats something that is common in dungeons and dragons games but unusual in action/adventures like Risen.
If you level different weapons early on instead of concentrating on one, you will end up with a weak char that will have a very hard life later on.

5. one of the biggest mistakes (and sources of frustration) is comparing Risen to other games like Oblivion, etc.
The concept in Risen is entirely different, here you are not a hero at all, you are a weakling at first, thrown into a realistic and dangerous world. There is no linear progression of mobs difficulty as you explore, you have to figure a way to survive and advance and you can do that in many different ways making the experience of each player different.

For some this can be a bliss, for others a curse, depending on how they adapt to the ruleset in the world of Risen.

[Drowning Witch]

I love Risen's combat system, and I love Gothic I / II combat systems even more. It's not even hard to use. <_<

+11111


this game and the gothics ♥♥♥♥ over elder scrolls series in so many ways.

please more risen and good gothics!

[Porcupeth]

Agh. I hate it when there's so much mixed talk. Have a 75% off coupon sitting here... But i'll probably get it even if it doesn't go on sale before it expires

[cheRRymonk]

Let's see...if you've got 20 years of gaming experience and you missed such hard PC game series like Fallout or Gothic in wich you had to die many times before you grow up,well yes,you're a casual gamer.
And I laughed on "You Germans can make great cars but honestly you're **** at making games" =] There are games much harder then Gothic/Risen series.

[ginx2666]

Risen is hard, but rewarding game. If you're used to casual 'I'll hold your hand through entire game and bury you under truckload of useless achievements' titles, it's no wonder you suck at it. Risen puts hair on your chest, but you have to have a chest in the first place. Deal With It.

[bias69]

I spent 12 hours with this game and still haven't figured out combat, it's just too weird, sometimes I can get away with LMB spamming, sometimes seems impossible to not get hit.

[coldReactive]

I spent 12 hours with this game and still haven't figured out combat, it's just too weird, sometimes I can get away with LMB spamming, sometimes seems impossible to not get hit.

The difficulty on easy is also quite hard. So I opened the developer console and gave myself titan armor and god mode :P

Spoiler: Type minsky real quick. Then press GRAVE / Tilde

DO NOT Use the developer console to fix the Inquisitor. It will cause serious issues. (Also, until I can fix him (Reply in this linked thread) (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1727258) I will not buy Risen 2.)

[Fatonium]

The combat in this game is utter ♥♥♥♥. I can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to make it as it is.

[Esskinser]

The combat in all PB games are different than stupid action RPG's like Reckoning: KoA. Timing is important and you have to pay attention and know which moves you can perform. You also have to specialize in this game, if you spread your points all over the place you're gonna be a jack of all trades that isnt particularly good at anything.

I'd take Risen or Gothic1-3's combat any day compared to Elder Scrolls or Reckoning.

[KwisatzHaderach]

The combat in this game is utter ♥♥♥♥. I can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to make it as it is.

Well, at what stage of the game are you? How many points did you put into "Sword", "Axe" or "Staff"? Because at an early stage you are SUPPOSED to be a yokel with your weapon untill you invest some XP into those skills. On my first play through I was a mage and spent all my points for magic or non-combat skills and I thought the combat system was pretty clumsy. On my second play through as a bandit though, I learned to really appreciate the hard work you have to put into the melee skill. It´s so rewarding and actually lets you deal with very strong foes as long as you´re patient and concentrate on what your oppnent is doing.

The best combat system of any RPG I ever played!

I rather found being a magician was a little dull in comparison.

[coldReactive]

I think I'm better off with JRPGs myself. You guys have taught me that most Western RPGs will end up like this, and I shouldn't play them. :|

[Fatonium]

Well, at what stage of the game are you? How many points did you put into "Sword", "Axe" or "Staff"? Because at an early stage you are SUPPOSED to be a yokel with your weapon untill you invest some XP into those skills. On my first play through I was a mage and spent all my points for magic or non-combat skills and I thought the combat system was pretty clumsy. On my second play through as a bandit though, I learned to really appreciate the hard work you have to put into the melee skill. It´s so rewarding and actually lets you deal with very strong foes as long as you´re patient and concentrate on what your oppnent is doing.

The best combat system of any RPG I ever played!

I rather found being a magician was a little dull in comparison.

At the beginning it was very hard to kill even the weakest of foes and I was about to rage quit and uninstall the game for the third time, but this time something kept me going though, probably the fact that the game is getting a sequel and thinking that it must be good enough to warrant one. The game does get significantly better as you progress and I actually enjoy playing it now.

[KwisatzHaderach]

At the beginning it was very hard to kill even the weakest of foes and I was about to rage quit and uninstall the game for the third time, but this time something kept me going though, probably the fact that the game is getting a sequel and thinking that it must be good enough to warrant one. The game does get significantly better as you progress and I actually enjoy playing it now.

Good to hear!
Risen 1 is an extrodinary game and well worth a few frustrating moments. Only the last quarter of hte game is a slight let-down quest and story wise.

[Vagrant]

My vote is kinda split.

I love the dodging maneuvers and the timed attack hits rather than the usual spamming most games have.

What I didn't like(sort of) is that when you attack an enemy, your mouse has to hover over the enemy's name if you want your attack to hit. Sometimes, I find myself aiming at 1 particular enemy in a group and wind up hitting the guy beside my target on occasions. What was missing from the fighting system was a lock-on function. Maybe...

[Loosifur]

I played the demo for this a while ago, and I remember thinking that the combat was frustrating. Not hard, just not responsive. I'd heard good things about the series, but I was never a big fan of Gothic, so when I tried it I wasn't in the mood to be charitable. It also didn't help that I was in the middle of a few other games at the time.

I'm thinking about giving it another whirl, but I remain skeptical. I happen to like "action RPGs" like KoA and Elder Scrolls, partly because the combat in the former is much more timing related, and, in the latter, more of a gear + button mashing + strategy affair. I'm alright with that, because the FPS format does not lend itself to melee combat. It's too difficult to judge distance, and it's tough to get the range right on weapons.

The exception that proves the rule: Mount and Blade. I love that series, and it does the best job of dealing with FPS melee combat, IMO, of any game out there. And it's STILL a chore to get to even a mediocre level of skill with it. It's just not possible with current hardware to make an FPS that accurately simulates melee combat on a 2D, flat screen. What you're then forced to do is effectively memorize things like weapon range at each angle and height of attack using visual cues in the scenery (and the edge of the monitor!)to judge distance. That's tedious. It's the video game equivalent of card counting, IMO: it's the only way to consistently win, but it's not very fun.

[Esskinser]

Combat in Gothic1-2 is easily the best combat of any RPG, imo. A lot more tactical than usual.. In Gothic3 they messed it up a bit (fixed in the community patch), in Risen it wasnt as good as G1-G2 but still a lot better than TES imo.. It's sad to see that they seem to go more towards TES in Risen 2..

[KwisatzHaderach]

I'm thinking about giving it another whirl, but I remain skeptical. I happen to like "action RPGs" like KoA and Elder Scrolls, partly because the combat in the former is much more timing related, and, in the latter, more of a gear + button mashing + strategy affair. I'm alright with that, because the FPS format does not lend itself to melee combat. It's too difficult to judge distance, and it's tough to get the range right on weapons.

The exception that proves the rule: Mount and Blade. I love that series, and it does the best job of dealing with FPS melee combat, IMO, of any game out there. And it's STILL a chore to get to even a mediocre level of skill with it. It's just not possible with current hardware to make an FPS that accurately simulates melee combat on a 2D, flat screen. What you're then forced to do is effectively memorize things like weapon range at each angle and height of attack using visual cues in the scenery (and the edge of the monitor!)to judge distance. That's tedious. It's the video game equivalent of card counting, IMO: it's the only way to consistently win, but it's not very fun.
What you say is probably true but I can´t see how it applies to Risen since that game has nothing to do with FPSs. It´s a pure third-person ARPG, with a very sophisticated and skill-based combat system, imo.

Considering your post; have you ever played Dark Messiah of Might and Magic? That had a very intuitive and satisfying FP melee combat system. Even worked really well in multi player.

Combat in Gothic1-2 is easily the best combat of any RPG, imo. A lot more tactical than usual.. In Gothic3 they messed it up a bit (fixed in the community patch), in Risen it wasnt as good as G1-G2 but still a lot better than TES imo.. It's sad to see that they seem to go more towards TES in Risen 2..

How do you see it going in that direction?
Although Im still a little skeptical about it I think it´s very unique: you have more of a fencing style (no two handers, no shields, very defensive posture) plus the dirty tricks and voodoo. And guns. So that alone doesn´t translate well into the TES mechanics. I haven´t played Skyrim but I have played both Oblivion and the Risen 2 BETA and I don´t thinkk they feel very similar.

[ioio]

the FPS format does not lend itself to melee combat. It's too difficult to judge distance, and it's tough to get the range right on weapons.

What you're then forced to do is effectively memorize things like weapon range at each angle and height of attack using visual cues in the scenery (and the edge of the monitor!)to judge distance. That's tedious. It's the video game equivalent of card counting, IMO: it's the only way to consistently win, but it's not very fun.

My thoughts exactly.

Some very good advices on this thread regarding the combat in Risen. However, useless for some of those who don’t like it, if not presented from a psychological point of view. For instance, there is no joy for me in video games where I need to translate large swings into pushing buttons – it feels unnatural and I don’t have time to mentally adapt to each game’s mechanics, there are too many of them. Obviously, I don’t play any football, hockey, skateboard, swimming, climbing whatever such ‘simulators’ on my PC. And I profoundly hate melee combat simulators with all those ridiculous key strokes. I understand very well how frustrating can be this game for a lot of people. Especially since it has an interesting story, it’s a nice virtual world, and so, if you like those things, you feel compelled to play it; only can’t get over the nasty combat sequences. No argument, no FAQ can talk me into liking this, and some IQ tests make me pretty confident that this is not intelligence related. Still, although I hate to have to memorize boring stuff (key-pushing sequences), I love a game that poses challenges, and since the base difficulty is set a bit higher than in other games, there are some workarounds already mentioned above - you can avoid much of the boring ‘learn the patterns’ thing by replacing it with ‘let it learn itself in time’.

Example: do that ‘gain some XP and put them into skills’ thing. Of course you won’t learn anything this way, no real skills gain here, won’t even make a better coffee in real life after playing Risen, let alone fight someone with a sword. It’s just a rationalization for adjusting the combat difficulty in game. And I think it’s actually more fun in that than adjusting it in the beginning, from a menu. This way you have more choices in game. When you want something more difficult, you may choose so, when you’d rather prefer to walk and enjoy the scenery, you are allowed to do so. Practically, the game’s difficulty is adjustable according to your wish at almost any given point. So, if you, like me, don’t really like the melee combat feature, do (as advised) some other tasks and come back later to that infuriating foe (I remember my first skirmishes with the ashbeasts... man!...) more ‘skilled’ and better armed. And when you want that kind of challenge. I learned to love Risen for that. I never play games on ‘easy’ level, because in time, once you’ve understood the mechanics, they become too easy, repetitive, boring. But here you can pretty much scale the difficulty dynamically, according to your own desire and pace. There is a reason why you can buy, order or manufacture yourself weapons. Keeping an eye on the economical balance and mixing it with the skills’ tree is another challenge that keeps things from becoming boring for those who would like rather this kind of mind game than memorizing combos.

Another trick that worked for me was the use of long range attacks. Hit, run, hit, run... Yes, in real life you do almost the same: aim, hit the trigger; no sense of loss, from a ‘real life like mechanics’ point of view. Not that easy with groups of beasts though, but if you don’t like to memorize all the melee/defence combos for each species in part, you still may find fun in ‘strategizing’ your attacks, isolating enemies and taking them out one by one. Of course, caution not to be ambushed is needed. But I’m the tactician, right? I’m supposed to enjoy paying attention at surroundings and planning my attacks, right?

I could continue, but it gets too long, Those things were mentioned before, and I think these examples alone are good enough already to make my point: I, a guy who hates this kind of combat in games, I was able to put behind what seemed to be a shortcoming quickly, and I found out that Risen’s combat is so well thought, that if you’re able to take a deep breath and remove for a second the natural horror and despise when facing melee combat in a video game, you will be pleased to see how adaptable is it and how much fun may find in the fighting sequences. And I don’t say it lightly, there are only two such games that I loved: Risen and The Witcher. I absolutely recommend to whoever would like to play it but found it too difficult or awkward, to give it a second chance and try approaching it in a different way and at a better time. For me, that worked wonders.

[KwisatzHaderach]

... For instance, there is no joy for me in video games where I need to translate large swings into pushing buttons – it feels unnatural and I don’t have time to mentally adapt to each game’s mechanics, there are too many of them. ...

Pushing buttons is pretty much what most PC games are about in the sense of physical interaction. Maybe it would be worth it to spend those few minutes it takes to pick up a game mechanic.


Example: do that ‘gain some XP and put them into skills’ thing. Of course you won’t learn anything this way, no real skills gain here, won’t even make a better coffee in real life after playing Risen, let alone fight someone with a sword. ...

The coffee always tasted extrodinary when playing Risen!:cool:


... Practically, the game’s difficulty is adjustable according to your wish at almost any given point. So, if you, like me, don’t really like the melee combat feature, do (as advised) some other tasks and come back later to that infuriating foe (I remember my first skirmishes with the ashbeasts... man!...) more ‘skilled’ and better armed. And when you want that kind of challenge. I learned to love Risen for that. ...

You´re talking sense here. This is one thing that makes PB´s games so immersive. There really is a sense of progression and character development outside of fighting.


... if you’re able to take a deep breath and remove for a second the natural horror and despise when facing melee combat in a video game, ...

Maybe try some shooters to spare your heart:p


My answers in red.

[Loosifur]

What you say is probably true but I can´t see how it applies to Risen since that game has nothing to do with FPSs. It´s a pure third-person ARPG, with a very sophisticated and skill-based combat system, imo.

Considering your post; have you ever played Dark Messiah of Might and Magic? That had a very intuitive and satisfying FP melee combat system. Even worked really well in multi player.

...why am I remembering it as a melee FPS? Maybe I'd better install that demo again...

You know, I've heard a lot about Dark Messiah, but haven't ever played it. So that's got the FP melee system down, huh? Maybe I should check that out, too.

[ioio]

My answers in red.

Much obliged, nowadays most people simply don’t care anymore to give you at least some clues.:eek:

Pushing buttons is pretty much what most PC games are about in the sense of physical interaction. Maybe it would be worth it to spend those few minutes it takes to pick up a game mechanic


Shorter version
Not exactly my point. It’s not only a matter of push A-Spacebar+L-W. Have to time them, chose an angle, match the wind speed and ask your brother if you did it right, and then adjust them to each foe. Spend a lot more than a few minutes, it may be the entire game. And since I play it for the role part, story, exploration, characters, not for the melee combat part, it quickly becomes annoying.

Longer version (can be skipped, but it’s polite to read it, or at least to say so)
I used to go to a club and fight with real sabres and swords, in real competitions, you know? I also joined the army for a short time – real weapons, from pistol to armoured vehicles. I joined another club and used to build sea and air worthy models - ships and planes – and tested them in real competitions. I even have some practice in merchant marine. I like to swim in everything – pool, river, sea – and I have several great photos taken in mountains. Occasionally I go shopping. After that, I really can’t find the fun in keyboard simulations for those physical intensive real life activities. Except for the shopping bit.

XXL version (can’t think of a good reason for reading it, I’ll come back with that later)
Although I play pretty much any genre (Risen, The Witcher, The Longest Journey, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Far Cry, FEAR, GTA, STALKER, Jagged Alliance, Commandoes, Il2-Sturmovnik, Comanche, ArmA/OFP, NFS, Homeworld, Jurassic Park, Duke Nuk’em, Fallout, Unreal, Full Spectrum Warrior, Mafia, Ground Control, Painkiller, Serious Sam, Quake, Medal of Honour, Max Payne, Crysis etc.), the things I play to death (or used to) are Civilization, Rise of Nations, Age of Empires, Sim City, Caesar/Pharaoh/Zeus, Settlers, GO, Master of Orion, Empire Earth, Mechcommander, Mechwarrior, Panzer General, King’s Bounty, Heroes of Might and Magic, Silent Hunter, Patrician, Galactic Civilizations and so on. And Dune 2 (oh, yeah, that one too - after the books and Di Laurentiis’s movie it was only a matter of honour). And I really waste a lot of time in virtual worlds, like Entropia Universe. I never finished any of the games in series such as The Elder Scrolls, Assassins Creed, Thief, Dragon Age etc.

See the pattern emerging here? I don’t mind learning the controls, on principle. 1. I like almost everything that’s fun, but 2. my favourite genres are adventure, exploration, interactive story, strategy-sim, and 3. usually I can’t play ‘physical simulations’ (most of the sports, melee combat, fist fight etc.). From time to time, though, I come across something which I just feel I can’t pass for it’d be a capital sin and I’d burn in hell forever.


Edit: my answers in white

[Ni3mand]

I think I'm better off with JRPGs myself. You guys have taught me that most Western RPGs will end up like this, and I shouldn't play them. :|

Well, most JRPGs today are utter garbage. Like in the recent final fantasy games where you basically just watch uninteresting characters fight on auto pilot. Gone are the days of tactical combat which required coordination of your party members. Sorry, I at least like to actually play games, not watch them play themselves. For passive entertainment I rather watch a movie or something.

The combat in Risen was great fun, without the last act which basically offered only 1 quest and endless hordes of lizard people to kill the game would have been great. It's still a good game and I had lots of fun playing it. The no-system-combat in Skyrim on the other hand bored me to death.