Why do people hate CG/RPG?

[project 90]

just wondering why people hate them so much, i tend to use them on vehicles mainly but if i got it equipped there some guy aiming out of window at my team mates killing them i dont hesitate to fire at building.

then when u do this omg its like 5 year olds got a bind CG noob even thugh it was rpg, not being funny but the description of the CG its ideal for anti personel applications and less suited for armour.

Also why done they bloody moan when some teams get like 4 assault guys and spam the tube and nades infinity times over

[RandomgrunT]

its called shielding their ego.

rocket away my friend

[_Dariuszek_]

CG/RPG when you use against infantry is lame.
Why?
Becouse even blind can kill you with CG/RPG.

[Phil_Ayceao]

are you real?

[prozac26]

I hate players who use it against infantry while there are tanks and helis in the area. Their main job is to kill the enemy vehicles. Running around killing infantry instead is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Moragami]

There is nothing wrong with using CG / RPG against infantry. Some people cry about all kinds of weapons, but it's usually the weapon they were killed with most recently.

[Gerty]

Because the CG is unbalanced and for n00bs?

[jiminator]

people hate anything that kills them. They complain about knives, snipers, shotguns, nades, noob tubes and lmgs, so in that regards all the classes are equal.

[deadlybydesign]

I'll use one on infantry if I'm in a pinch, but I generally save them for armor or buildings.

[breakd0wn]

The CG does ridiculous damage towards infantry and I can understand a lot of whine towards it. It's hard to dodge at close range and it rarely feels fair to be killed by it. But really, keep shooting infantry with it if it works out.

[Kalabalana]

CG was used by engineers as a primary weapon in lieu of their SMG for lack of skill.

This allowed poorer players to get kills out of their league. It was nerfed subsequently.

[PsylentStorm]

CG was used by engineers as a primary weapon in lieu of their SMG for lack of skill.

This allowed poorer players to get kills out of their league. It was nerfed subsequently.

+1

I don't like playing the realism card, since it is a game after all where you can revive someone riddled with bullet holes. But something just doesn't seem right when a guy is just walking anywhere he wants with a rocket launcher on his shoulder shooting at infantry, when he has a perfectly good SMG.

Let's be honest here, people walk around as if the CG is their primary weapon and the SMG is the secondary.

[skacikplz]

just wondering why people hate them so much, i tend to use them on vehicles mainly but if i got it equipped there some guy aiming out of window at my team mates killing them i dont hesitate to fire at building.

then when u do this omg its like 5 year olds got a bind CG noob even thugh it was rpg, not being funny but the description of the CG its ideal for anti personel applications and less suited for armour.

Also why done they bloody moan when some teams get like 4 assault guys and spam the tube and nades infinity times over

i won't cry if i get CG'ed from behind a wall once or twice since its a tactical solution to blow up the wall

i won't cry if i'll get CG'ed by jumping engineer going quake 3 style

but for god sake if i'm going to be killed by engineer who spams random rockets in every possible direction, and doesn't even think about using smg even when he's near stationary and unaware target then i'll shriek in rage!

use rocket launcher as a TOOL and tactical solution = good
use rocket launcher as primary weapon due to ones inability to aim through ironsights = bad, very bad

[wango_tango]

I use the CG exclusively against infantry and the RPG frequently as well. I do it just to make people rage. People getting angry over video games is funny

[shotbirds]

It is a no skill kill weapon, but someone using CG against tanks annoys me more

[project 90]

ok thanks guys just wanted to see others opinion on it, i do use the smg more and have the tracer euqipped aswell to try tag vehicles but as i said if u see guy in window shooting and u blow the ♥♥♥♥ outta wall killing him along with it seems fair to me.

even though the smg is very awsome in HC any way i just like to blow things up along with ppl behind/in them.

still think though that the ppl that moan about them if there assault and using the 40mm should have a reality check as even in a game i just played there spammed every where and on every wall in my opinion there worse just cos the donr go straight like the rocket ppl thing there more skillful with them.

[fumanshoe64]

took the cgs to platinum and rarely revist them. i killed whatever i could while i had them though.

[skacikplz]

It is a no skill kill weapon, but someone using CG against tanks annoys me more

well, m136 deals most damage, but it doesn't support tracers and its slow

on the other hand CG has fast projectiles and it has huge splash damage, guess why its so popular?

[Gerty]

even though the smg is very awsome in HC any way i just like to blow things up along with ppl behind/in them.


Rofl, you play hardcore?

[Redtide]

I use the CG exclusively against infantry and the RPG frequently as well. I do it just to make people rage. People getting angry over video games is funny

People ruining games is funny. Might I suggest buying MW2 or Black Ops as it has way better explosives that you can get cheap kills to make people rage? It's even easier in those games and you can top it off with cheesy killstreak rewards.

On topic, the CG is a crutch. It doesn't take any skill to use and is not defendable against. I used it for a time post nerf and it's still quite silly with the explosive spec. One squad using it can single-handedly defend a rather large area against any sort of attack.

So basically, people hate the CG because it does everything.

[kommandojoe]

there is nothing wrong with it.
however, running around and main-lining the CG for infantry combat is rather unsportsmanlike.

[Alex1981]

I use the CG exclusively against infantry and the RPG frequently as well. I do it just to make people rage. People getting angry over video games is funny

there is nothing wrong with it.
however, running around and main-lining the CG for infantry combat is rather unsportsmanlike.

Obviously they only do it because it's unsportsmanlike. They want people to hate them because they think it might fill that emptiness inside from the fact that no one on the planet cares if they live or not.

It's the same mentality that spawns aimbotters and other griefers.

[jiminator]

killing someone while hiding in a bush is unsportsmanlike. killing someone from behind is unsportsmanlike. really these arguments are ludicrous. you got blowd up. get over it.

[Zefar]

What's not tactical about sending one instant kill rocket on one guy and then blast the other with the SMG? :/

Seems like a smart idea for me.

Now CG and RPG are balanced and you mostly get killed because the guy actually aimed. Yes you need to aim with those weapons now. Specially RPG which needs to be really close to you.

[Majesty of War]

just wondering why people hate them so much, i tend to use them on vehicles mainly but if i got it equipped there some guy aiming out of window at my team mates killing them i dont hesitate to fire at building.

then when u do this omg its like 5 year olds got a bind CG noob even thugh it was rpg, not being funny but the description of the CG its ideal for anti personel applications and less suited for armour.

Also why done they bloody moan when some teams get like 4 assault guys and spam the tube and nades infinity times over

Anti armor weapons are anti armor.

Grenade launcher is anti infantry weapons.

See the problem?

The Hot Carl being far more efficient and effective than shooting someone with a gun is a game balance issue. This is especially the case when running around with it out has no side effect what so ever for players.

[Ader]

What's not tactical about sending one instant kill rocket on one guy and then blast the other with the SMG? :/

Seems like a smart idea for me.

Now CG and RPG are balanced and you mostly get killed because the guy actually aimed. Yes you need to aim with those weapons now. Specially RPG which needs to be really close to you.

so you enjoy dieing to someone that doesn't have sufficient IQ to use a gun and has to use a weapon that needs no skill at all?
you mean my 9 years playing fps, improving my aim were all for nothing because there is a 12-year old who can't shoot a standing, stationary target without splash damage.

and saying they're "balanced" really made my day, thanks.

[111uminate]

What's not tactical about sending one instant kill rocket on one guy and then blast the other with the SMG? :/

Seems like a smart idea for me.

Now CG and RPG are balanced and you mostly get killed because the guy actually aimed. Yes you need to aim with those weapons now. Specially RPG which needs to be really close to you.

This. You people and your contrived notions of the people killing you with a weapon are ridiculous. "Waaah, he's a noob who can't aim because he killed me with that weapon!" If I said you were a camping Recon or someone sitting in a building doing nothing it would be just as valid.

Fact: RPG/CG is a weapon in the game. You use weapons to kill people.

Honestly, the ratio of hardcore misses and hits I receive from a rocket launcher are comparable. You know right away if someone is skilled with them or not, and if you're getting killed by them repeatedly to the point you need to cry about it, you might want to take a look at your own playstyle. End of discussion.

[Sumpfkraut]

Anti armor weapons are anti armor.

Grenade launcher is anti infantry weapons.

See the problem?
Some people's inability to get over nomenclature?

Anti-armor is called anti-armor because it's optimised for fights against armor, not because using it in a different way is an obscenity and offense against god's order.
so you enjoy dieing to someone that doesn't have sufficient IQ to use a gun and has to use a weapon that needs no skill at all?
you mean my 9 years playing fps, improving my aim were all for nothing because there is a 12-year old who can't shoot a standing, stationary target without splash damage.

and saying they're "balanced" really made my day, thanks.
I can respect that they had the superior situation-specific tactic and will -if anything- devise a way to show them that I have mastered the arts of war better.
See it as a challenge, use the occasion to show what you can do, be the sportsman you demand others to be. Have some honour and don't go ranting to the nearest supervisor like those kids would do.

A straight man goes with a straight face.

[Redtide]

The problem with the CG is that it didn't even need to be in the game at all. It's only purpose is to completely own infantry with low skill input. If the engineer only had the RPG, AT4, and AT mines they would use their guns a lot more and their rockets would be more to destroy cover and vehicles than destroy teams.

[Digital_Beating]

LOL, people are going to cry if they get killed by CG, RPG, or AT4. It's not going to matter. A lot of the times I'm playing Engineer none of my teammates are supplying me with ammo and I run out of ammo for my SMG and my Pistol. So do you really really really expect me to stand there and let you finish me off with your gun? Or do you expect me to come running at you full head on with a knife? I'm not that dumb, I'll pull out my RPG, Gustav, AT4, or whatever I have left to dispose of you. It might be at that second I was going to shoot a vehicle with my AT4, RPG or Gustav and I just happened to have it out equipped, is it my fault your dumbass comes a charging at me shooting or starts shooting me? I'm going to fire whatever I have currently equipped. Do you really think I'm going to change to my SMG to fight you when I have split seconds to make a decision?

When I only have rockets left, wtf do you expect me to do? Stand there? ROFL. 10 Months later people are still crying about the CG. I don't care if people use the CG on me, I don't care if they use it as a crutch, I don't care if they use it as their main weapon. What they better realize is that they better not miss on the first shot because my bullets will come flying back at them. And then they cry BS. LOL, learn how to aim, less QQ more Pew Pew Pew Assaulting. And for the people who cry about getting CG or RPG walled maybe you should camp less. I don't stay inside buildings very long because I know better. Get a few kills inside a building I run away from the walls and run out of the building. You're not going to know what's going to happen, it could be an RPG to the wall, a Gustav, or a tank shell and even maybe an AT4.

[StabbyStabStab]

Why do people use CG more than AT against infantry? Does it do higher dmg? I use AT and it always 1 hit kills. Plus its great for fine tuning a shot after it goes with heat seeking. Nothing really more satisfying than a long distance AT kill. I have around 200 kills I think.

[Redtide]

Why do people use CG more than AT against infantry? Does it do higher dmg? I use AT and it always 1 hit kills. Plus its great for fine tuning a shot after it goes with heat seeking. Nothing really more satisfying than a long distance AT kill. I have around 200 kills I think.

Carl Gustav dumb fires, making you less vulnerable, and it has a much larger kill radius thus making it way more effective against infantry. The AT4 does more damage but has almost no splash.

[fortunehunters]

CG has the highest splash damage out of the 3 AT weapons. But kinda weak against tanks compair to the other 2.

I personally use RPG with high explosive perk if the map only has tanks. AT4 if it has choppers since I can hit a chopper with it 80% of the time. And CG if it's infentry only map like cold war.

[Bulletooth]

CG/RPG when you use against infantry is lame.
Why?
Becouse even blind can kill you with CG/RPG.

CG - yes, RPG - no. besides, personally i play purely as an anto-vehicle engie with tracer dart, extra explosives and explosive dmg. naturally, i find myself in situations where my PP2000 is out of ammo and i have to fire a rocket away to survive. or maybe i see a wookie hiding behind bushes or in a building.

[Rrray]

Who hates on the rpg? o_o
CG was nerfed in the last patch, but it still has a huge splash area. -3-
Still overpowered imo.

[Zefar]

Who hates on the rpg? o_o
CG was nerfed in the last patch, but it still has a huge splash area. -3-
Still overpowered imo.

http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

Check up CG. With full health on it will only instant kill within 1.7 meters. RPG is on 1.5 meters. Even grenades are more lethal than that with their 2.9 meters.

CG was nerfed and it's now just a faster version of RPG to make it harder for tanks/helis to avoid it.

[Unknownsock]

Oh noes i use RPG/CG vs infantry, am I a bad man?

[-B.A.Frayd-]

CG whiners act as if the engy has an unlimited supply of rockets, and the CG is a rapid-fire device.

I invite any engy to fire a rocket at me. I know if they don't get me on the first shot they will be an easy kill while they stand there waiting for their reload animation to end.

Also, I will state in this forum, for the umpteenth time, just for you new/ignorant CG whiners: The Carl Gustav, as implemented in BC2 (http://www.battlefieldbadcompany2.com/game-info?p=gadget&i=ul_m2cg), is primarily a bunker buster and ANTI-PERSONNEL weapon.;)

[_Dariuszek_]

Oh noes i use RPG/CG vs infantry, am I a bad man?

*slap in the face*

yes you are! :D

[H E X E N]

people hate anything that kills them. They complain about knives, snipers, shotguns, nades, noob tubes and lmgs, so in that regards all the classes are equal.

^^^ This X 1000.

The only problem I have is when players use it as their ONLY means to acquire kills, as in, they won't use their guns.

There was a game recently that I played on a small server where I continually killed this guy over and over and over. He then switched to the CG with the explosive perk and started to play that way. He ended up killing me a few times and increased his kills over all, but he still ended up with a negative KDR while sitting well below the best player on his team.

That kind of irritated me. It's like he couldn't acquire kills without that CG and explosive perk combo which is pretty lame in my opinion.

[lilbabycat]

CG's used to be extremely overpowered... fast reload/fire , huge kill radius.

Was playing SQDM months ago and complained that some guy was using CG (almost exclusively), finally I said "fine, next round I'll be the CG guy", and went on to effortlessly get 42 kills (~10 smg kills in there).

Its much more balanced now, but the stigma remains.

[Brinkman]

Takes no skill to kill with the Quake 3 Rocket aka Carl Gustav.

You've put 15 rounds of ammo into a guy, all he has to do is turn around click his button once and wins.

[brerlapin]

Actually they do moan about 40mm GL spam & CG use. Interestingly you wont see any of these 'people' (I use the term loosely) mention VSS sniping on HC, or 12g Sabot in any mode.

Its interesting because the 40mm spam is comparable to flushing out a target through explosives. THis is basically some turd has setup in a unhittable position & is glitching his kills. 40mm guy blows him up. Hence complaints 'cause no one could "shoot" me' you trumped his IWIN button. The interesting thing about 40mm spam is theres no reason to complain as its weak, ineffective & rarely gets kills on all but the most static ineffectual players. Hence noobs whining about it.

CG is a different story, It has been nerfed slightly but its still far too fast & retardly accurate (so is the RPG BTW its just slower & lower). Because of these issues its a beter choice than the 40mm GL in engaging massed troop densities. This means the Anti Tank weapon is better at the job of anti-personnel than the anti-personnel weapon. That means overall your better taking a Engineer with a G3 & a CG than an Assualt with any assualt rifle & a grenade launcher.

[Redtide]

http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

Check up CG. With full health on it will only instant kill within 1.7 meters. RPG is on 1.5 meters. Even grenades are more lethal than that with their 2.9 meters.

CG was nerfed and it's now just a faster version of RPG to make it harder for tanks/helis to avoid it.

No one uses it without the explosive spec that increases the radius to ridiculous proportions. Also, hand grenades take almost a second to throw and 3 seconds to detonate compared to the CG which flies extremely quickly and detonates instantly.

In addition, the hand grenade takes a lot more skill to arch into a certain area, let's say a window, and the indicator plus audio cues alert everyone inside. Even when timing the throw and arching it to airburst, you have to aim roughly 4 seconds and get the right throw. With the Carl Gustav, you just kill them with one click almost instantaneously and can carry way more than one or two uses so you aren't tied to an ammo box for spam.

[lilbabycat]

40mm comments above

Did the 40mm get nerfed sometime in the last two patches ?

I was playing exclusively recon/engi/shotguns for about a month (working on platinums), and when I got around to working on my assault plats, I noticed that the 40mm seems much weaker than it used to be.

[Unknownsock]

I got an idea, let's take out all weapons and vehicles, and give everyone the same pistol.

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

As some people have mentioned, CG spam isn't anywhere near as bad as it used to be. My only gripe with CG and 40mm users is when you see people running around with the CG or 40mm and using it as their primary. That's just lazy and skill-less.

Obviously, if you're out of SMG and pistol ammo, you've got to use something, so I don't have a problem with that. I personally don't use CG or 40mm against targets that could otherwise be taken out by my rifle, SMG, or shottie. Actually, I almost never use CG anymore; it's either AT4 or RPG. But, if I have my AT4 out to shoot a tank or chopper, and I happen to see an enemy, I will switch back to SMG, rather than take the easy kill. It's just a point of personal pride.

If I use the CG or 40mm, it's only because I was shooting at someone and I saw them duck behind a wall or other cover. The CG or 40mm is perfect for taking out cover; that's what it was designed for, and that's what I use it for.

I remember a few weeks ago I happened to have the CG out, and I saw a guy pop out right in front of me, so I just fired on reflex and blew him away. I immediately typed in chat 'sorry about lame CG kill', right as he typed some kind of angry something-or-other about CG noobs. Apparently he was on a kill streak, so it was particularly irritating to get taken out with a lame CG to the face. He forgave me and we have been best buddies ever since and we have ice cream every sunday at the family-owned ice cream parlor down the street.

...just kidding.

[Paulie_C]

it takes more skill to fire a CG rocket at someone from distance than it does a bullet cos of its arc and lower speed, any1 who calls u a noob for using it is just being a sheep an trying to act hard by using a word which at the very sight of it makes me annoyed. I will personally never stop using CG on HC servers, they are designed not to have rules and if any1 complains then they will just make me use it more. if you think im a noob then find me an i'l wipe the floor with u with any weapon - Paulie [UK]

[deadlybydesign]

I will openly admit to using the 40mm grenade often on the first night or two of playing BC2 online. Why? Because the game is refrickendiculously difficult to adjust to if you haven't been playing military shooters. Having to aim down the sights to kill anything is not natural for people of other genres. Once I started to get the hang of it, however, I stopped using the 40mm attachment.

Now, I only use it to fire at buildings or tightly-bunched groups of enemies. I also shot down two choppers with the CG in one life last night. I'm sure others have done much more impressive feats, but it made me pretty happy.

So, in short, cut people some slack if they're of low rank. If not, some criticism may be in order.

[Unknownsock]

I love how this is turning into a confession thread.

[Brinkman]

I got an idea, let's take out all weapons and vehicles, and give everyone the same pistol.

or give everyone the CG and see how fun that would be.

[Sandy Cheeks]

I roll with the cg because it's speed makes it ideal for taking out airborne vehicles. In my average life, i'll kill more infantry with the cg than with my smg. Why? Because it gets the job done. Simple as. One of it's top roles is anti-infantry and it sure has saved my behind countless times. Why should I use a less powerful launcher just to please some random guy over a game who doesn't like receiving the wrong end of the stick?

In Modern warfare 2 it's "G18 Akimbo noob"
In Black Ops it's "AK74U noob"
In Counter Strike it's "AWP noob"

There will always be those who whinge about what kills them easiest, it's what people do.

[111uminate]

Here's the thing with any of the launchers though, and I know everyone is aware of this but no one mentioned it in this thread so far. Firing them is akin to shooting a flare gun, alerting everyone to your position. I've doled it out and received it countless times, but firing one of those baby's is like setting a death clock on yourself, at least against a decently competent team.

For that reason I don't like firing them too much unless I know it's worth it, especially on a map like Harvest Day. Much of the terrain is of similar elevation, and there aren't too many obstacles in the way so you can see an RPG going off on the other side of the map practically. On that map, the paranoia level is a bit higher and I almost never sit still unless capping somewhere.

[Redtide]

it takes more skill to fire a CG rocket at someone from distance than it does a bullet cos of its arc and lower speed, any1 who calls u a noob for using it is just being a sheep an trying to act hard by using a word which at the very sight of it makes me annoyed. I will personally never stop using CG on HC servers, they are designed not to have rules and if any1 complains then they will just make me use it more. if you think im a noob then find me an i'l wipe the floor with u with any weapon - Paulie [UK]

How does it take more skill to hit someone more than half a dozen times than to launch a rocket and get back to safety exactly? Sure you might not hit as many people but you're a hell of a lot less exposed.

Also I doubt anyone cares enough to "wipe the floor" with you if you play on HC servers.

If the CG didn't have the explosive upgrade it would be fine but once that is used it becomes extremely forgiving and completely viable over any other weapon the engineer has. It does too much damage to armor, has too much splash, and flies extremely quickly. No weapon in the game should be that versatile as to nullify the use of everything else.

[Particle]

I try to adhere to strict ethics. How a person plays I feel is more important than how they complain, so here it is:

- No sniping except for brief, specific objectives. Basically, no bush wookie'ing.
- AT weapons are intended for and are to be primarily used against armor, vehicles, objectives (MCOM as a attacker, etc), and buildings. Groups of infantry or infantry behind impermeable cover that can be hit by splash damage are fair game. Solo targets beyond engagement range when your loadout consists of short-range weapons like a pistol and shotgun are also fair, provided that wasn't the intent of that loadout.
- No restriction on any weapon's use if:
... - You already have it out for an otherwise legitimate purpose and find yourself suddenly engaged.
... - You are out of ammo for other more appropriate weapons.

Beyond that most stuff is fair. I try to keep in the spirit of the game. Others can play however they'd like.

@Redtide: I disagree about the CG with the upgrade. It's still worthless against vehicles. Even the AT-4 has a hard time with tanks when there's the common engineer gunner with the vehicle.

[student1]

I'll use whatever I can to get the kills, yeah true I s.u.c.k badly at head shots so if shotgun attachment or rockets do the job all the better! If someone has a bone about it... go cry a river!

[Redtide]

@Redtide: I disagree about the CG with the upgrade. It's still worthless against vehicles. Even the AT-4 has a hard time with tanks when there's the common engineer gunner with the vehicle.

With explosive spec (which any engineer has) the engineer rocket launchers do:
CG 350
RPG 450
AT4 475

Tanks have 1250 health and assuming no multipliers for a test case, the RPG and AT4 will kill on their 3rd shot while the CG will kill on it's 4th. That's one extra rocket in exchange for greatly enhanced anti-infantry and decent anti-tank especially with a tracer. Far from "useless" I would say.

[MrChris]

CG was used by engineers as a primary weapon in lieu of their SMG for lack of skill.

This allowed poorer players to get kills out of their league. It was nerfed subsequently.

this basically

if anyone wasn't here for the game release and never experience the extreme ♥♥♥♥♥♥ry of a CG hero then consider yourself lucky, all you basically had to do was lol in the general direction of the enemy and millions would die

don't have a problem with it now since its balanced, sure I sit in my chair and sigh whenever some ♥♥♥♥er nails me with it, but at least they actually have to hit near me instead of the old nuclear bomb level destruction it caused

its more to do with types of players and their mentalities tbh, it might just be me, but I absolutely despise most people that equip increased explosive damage, god forbid I see an assault player using it, might just have a stroke

the kind of people who rely on such easy weapons, or enter combat with their 40mm noob tube and then cannot use something that fires their bullets

I platinumed the noob tube back in the days of its extreme destruction but I always killed far far more people with my AR

and for a lot of people its annoying at first because they don't realise if they had moved differently, chosen a slightly different route or not hugged that wall so closely they could pretty much remove the threat of a noob strike, they don't really become frustrating once you have the experience, since you mostly just mow the ♥♥♥♥♥es down and feel a lot better for doing so

there are times when I am mowing through a squad at close range, last ♥♥♥♥er left alive is an engi, he has his RPG/CG out w/e you can tell as you move toward him, his brain has deadlocked over whether or not to try and change weapon

most of the time they fire, which I will admit generally leads to a lol situation (we both die, some lols) or I don't die and he does (much lols)

either way, situation now is way better than it was, there were literally times when even in a tank the CG scared the ♥♥♥♥ out of me

AT4 ftw

[Paulie_C]

How does it take more skill to hit someone more than half a dozen times than to launch a rocket and get back to safety exactly? Sure you might not hit as many people but you're a hell of a lot less exposed.

It takes less than a second for me to kill someone with a G3 at short to mid range, it takes longer to use the CG and you have to compensate more to aquire a moving target, regardless of the splash damage. Also it takes 4 CG rockets to take out a tank even with ex explosive on. A lot of ppl out there may be 'noobs' with a CG but iv got over 1700 kills with an 85% accuracy, thats without the use of tracer darts. Don't assume that everyone who uses the CG just hopes for the best. Also you only make youself noticable by firing it if you stand still and wait for someone to follow the smoke trail to you, any skilled player moves to another location after firing a rocket otherwise they wudnt fire it. One more thing - its designed to be anti personnel, mostly bunker busting, hence its heavy usage in Arica Harbor, Oasis and White Pass.

The reason I play on HC servers is because people rarely moan, they man up and admit they have just been killed and move on.

[VACkillers]

i have no problem with this myself, rockets are just for tanks n stuff? get bloody real, is for killing, no matter what your bloody shooting. Complaining about this is pathetic.

[Paulie_C]

i have no problem with this myself, rockets are just for tanks n stuff? get bloody real, is for killing, no matter what your bloody shooting. Complaining about this is pathetic.

They are not complaints, they are opinions. Theres always gona be two sides to this i just want to make the other side aware that not all CG users spam rockets to get kills. And i respect the fact that most people do prefer a gun to kill. Bottom line is, if i get the kill then i get the points, if not il try again.

I think we can all safely agree tho that the best way to kill someone is by knifing them in the back, or face. Nothing beats sinking 6 inches of cold steel into a camping snipers back!

[PsylentStorm]

It takes less than a second for me to kill someone with a G3 at short to mid range, it takes longer to use the CG and you have to compensate more to aquire a moving target, regardless of the splash damage. Also it takes 4 CG rockets to take out a tank even with ex explosive on. A lot of ppl out there may be 'noobs' with a CG but iv got over 1700 kills with an 85% accuracy, thats without the use of tracer darts. Don't assume that everyone who uses the CG just hopes for the best. Also you only make youself noticable by firing it if you stand still and wait for someone to follow the smoke trail to you, any skilled player moves to another location after firing a rocket otherwise they wudnt fire it. One more thing - its designed to be anti personnel, mostly bunker busting, hence its heavy usage in Arica Harbor, Oasis and White Pass.

The reason I play on HC servers is because people rarely moan, they man up and admit they have just been killed and move on.

There are a lot of fallacies in your statement.

First of all, most people aren't you. Sounds like your a pretty player that can aim. The assumption here is that we complain about people who use the CG as a replacement for their lack of aim. They compensate their lack of aim with a 1-hit kill weapon that just needs to be in the area of the enemy.

You mention you kill players in less than a second. You also mention that you play hardcore. Perhaps a correlation here? My guess is that people here aren't complaining about the use of a CG in hardcore mode. Thus, it makes absolutely no sense to compare 2 scenarios with different variables.

Also, don't put too much into accuracy, as you get "extra" accuracy from hitting multiple targets. You can find stats where players have accuracy over 100%.

Lastly, if you're really going to argue "how its designed", I highly doubt it's "designed" so that a single player can walk AND shoot with pin-point accuracy, not to mention walking around with no weight penalty. It's a game. All we're asking for is the designers to provide some balance, as opposed one super-splash weapon.

[Paulie_C]

Then il leave you to continue this conversation with the people you have your complaints with

[Kalabalana]

I don't have any issue with the rpg's now, but those of you who played in the bad'ol days know CG was quite overpowered.

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

I don't have any issue with the rpg's now, but those of you who played in the bad'ol days know CG was quite overpowered.

I remember this scenario happening constantly: go around a corner and find myself face to face with a CG engie, start to knife him, when all of the sudden I'm dead and he's scampering off with 60% health and reloading his tube.

[Redtide]

It takes less than a second for me to kill someone with a G3 at short to mid range,

I forget how quickly people die in HC. I can see how bullets, especially from snipers, would be quicker since you only have to hit someone a few times.Quick aside, the reason people "man up" in hardcore is because everything is so ludicrously deadly that it's pretty pointless to argue what kills you so marginally quicker or more efficiently. DICE does not balance the game for hardcore anyways and thus it's pointless arguing about balance for HC specifically.

I still don't see why the engineer needed such an effective anti-infantry weapon. It's great against infantry and choppers and still good against tanks and it's the most forgiving of the three. As I said earlier, in a perfect world the engineer would just have the RPG, AT4, and AT mines and he wouldn't be missing a thing.

[project 90]

intresting views here guys thanks, liked the quote from some1 loving how its a confession thread on who uses it :D.

as stated i used the smg mainly just when i got kicked from server cos i pwned an admin behind a wall with rpg musta pissed him off.

well am gnr continue to use it as i do. tbh its in the game i bought the game so :P

[PoIson895]

CG whiners act as if the engy has an unlimited supply of rockets, and the CG is a rapid-fire device.

I invite any engy to fire a rocket at me. I know if they don't get me on the first shot they will be an easy kill while they stand there waiting for their reload animation to end.

Also, I will state in this forum, for the umpteenth time, just for you new/ignorant CG whiners: The Carl Gustav, as implemented in BC2 (http://www.battlefieldbadcompany2.com/game-info?p=gadget&i=ul_m2cg), is primarily a bunker buster and ANTI-PERSONNEL weapon.;)


I play assault and my friend plays engineer almost every time we play SDM. He ends up usually going 30-6 or so alone as long as I give him ammo.

But to be honest, I see no problem here. Other than the fact, he can't aim any of the guns for crap. EX: Full auto M60 long ranged....GG

[VACkillers]

They are not complaints, they are opinions. Theres always gona be two sides to this i just want to make the other side aware that not all CG users spam rockets to get kills. And i respect the fact that most people do prefer a gun to kill. Bottom line is, if i get the kill then i get the points, if not il try again.

I think we can all safely agree tho that the best way to kill someone is by knifing them in the back, or face. Nothing beats sinking 6 inches of cold steel into a camping snipers back!

Fair enough man.. and i cant argue that fact on the knifing, cept i will complain im definitely not good enough to do that to anyone yet, when i get close to someone, my knifing button doens't always do what its supposed to and i get shot haha...

[JuGGs]

Everyone has opinions on all weaps, CG is no diff to anything else people or myself ♥♥♥♥♥ about. Personally I find it laugable that people ♥♥♥♥♥ about being killed by a CG in a game where you can jump in a tank or apache and shoot infantry to ♥♥♥♥ and that's fine. At least with a CG it's a guy holding it, you can shoot him.

Where are all the "using nades against infantry will get you kicked and banned", "using tanks against infantry will get you kicked and banned", "using heli's against infantry will get you kicked and banned" servers? I've only ever seen anti CG against infantry rules on servers.

The game is full of "cheap" tactics and we can argue both sides forever. Some days I laugh at it happening to me, some days I rage. The bottom line is, it's the game. Play it or learn to design one yourself to your specs :P Or play something else. :)

[Life_Essence]

trace the camping snipers face, lock on and fire.

HILARITY ENSUES.

But TBH I play Tracer+M1/M95+C4 Recon MUCH more than I play engi. C4 is just so much fun :)

[Dezolate]

if its used to make a hole in a wall where campers are, thats fine, but rpg is better to be used for taht rather than the lame cg.

[Paulie_C]

Fair enough man.. and i cant argue that fact on the knifing, cept i will complain im definitely not good enough to do that to anyone yet, when i get close to someone, my knifing button doens't always do what its supposed to and i get shot haha...

You might be on a laggy server cos that used to happen to me all the time, also sometimes it bugs out.
i go on french/german/english servers with low latency an now i just cant stop stabbing lol. Just head on round to the sniper camping spots and its like xmas all over again. Arica Harbour is good for stabbing if you can get up the hill u can get em behind the rocks :) Also on White Pass if you creep around the trees near their deployment theres bound to be a few, anyway im digressing sorry...

[Chris2183]

i have no problem with this myself, rockets are just for tanks n stuff? get bloody real, is for killing, no matter what your bloody shooting. Complaining about this is pathetic.


Pathetic is letting your team get owned by armor while you're busy shooting infantry with rockets.

[Johnnykey]

Like, 90% of the engineer's weapons are stealth (silenced) weapons. If I encounter an enemy head-on (aka i'm detected) i feel like using a rocket, cause most stealth weapons are a bit underpowered (with the exception of PP2000 and maybe UMP-45). That's how I feel about it. Rockets aren't hard at all to dodge anyway, even guided missiles. Plus if they miss, they're gonna spend a hard time reloading and they're likely to get killed. I never really had any problem with rocket spammers, so i don't think it's imba to use them against infantry. I also use them a lot to tear down walls. Obviously, not using them against tanks when they're near is very very dumb, since tanks usually are the most troublesome issue. Teams that ignore destroying tanks always lose (like a match i just had 20 minutes ago).

Yeah of course, there's Saiga and other ALL Kit weapons, but it's kind of a waste to not use SCAR variations since Engies are the only ones that can use them.

[Kalabalana]

Pathetic is letting your team get owned by armor while you're busy shooting infantry with rockets.

You sir, understand the game more then the average forum goer.

[Someusername]

Mostly using the launchers for tanks / choppers, I'd dare to use it on infantry if I'm out of ammo but that's something that rarely happens when I'm playing.

[Kalabalana]

Using rpg's and such against infantry is fine, just if you're doing it as your primary weapon, then you're in trouble. Good players regularly use up primary, secondary, and tertiary weapon ammo. Well, that is if you're decent, and you like to play very aggressively. Sometimes I'll find myself against a string of guys who just keep coming and I can't even reload as well. It happens.

[sander537]

http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

Check up CG. With full health on it will only instant kill within 1.7 meters. RPG is on 1.5 meters. Even grenades are more lethal than that with their 2.9 meters.

CG was nerfed and it's now just a faster version of RPG to make it harder for tanks/helis to avoid it.

It will ONLY??? instant kill??? do realize what your saying???? you can completely miss the person you're shooting at by 5.6 feet and still kill him (and very likely the 3 teamates that just spawned on him as well) this is why NOOBS use it and why its the most hated weapon in the game.

[wooki]

Stop hating on it. It's just natural to use any weapon you can. Sniping at ranges assault can hardly see isn't fair either. Neither is it cool to run around like a idiot knifing everybody. But whining is the lamest thing of all.
This is not a sports game. Making up rules for fairness does not comply.
Suck it up you crybabies. This is a game built for rage.

[MjrLee]

This game is about winning by killing the opposing side more effectively than they kill your side.

The means by which you achieve this don't matter so long as at the end of the game there are more of them dead than there are of you.

[Redtide]

Like, 90% of the engineer's weapons are stealth (silenced) weapons. If I encounter an enemy head-on (aka i'm detected) i feel like using a rocket, cause most stealth weapons are a bit underpowered...

No. Just no. The submachine guns are the best weapons up close doing on average higher damage than LMG's and assault rifles while firing faster. Sounds like you've played too much CoD if you think since a gun is silenced it does less damage.

Just take a look how much better the smgs are at their respective ranges than the other automatics: http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

You should never loose an even fight up close with an SMG and with the 91-A1 or UMP you can win most long range fights as well.

[tet5uo]

I'll use it on infantry if I need to. Stop crying. Someone shoots me from a window then ducks back behind cover, you can bet your ♥♥♥ I'll shoot a rocket at the building instead of waiting for him to peek out and shoot at me again.

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

Stop hating on it. It's just natural to use any weapon you can. Sniping at ranges assault can hardly see isn't fair either. Neither is it cool to run around like a idiot knifing everybody. But whining is the lamest thing of all.
This is not a sports game. Making up rules for fairness does not comply.
Suck it up you crybabies. This is a game built for rage.

Nobody is making up rules; we're simply pointing out the difference between people who are skill-less 'tards, and gamers who have skills.


Neither is it cool to run around like a idiot knifing everybody.

Wuuuuut??? How is this not cool??

I'll use it on infantry if I need to. Stop crying. Someone shoots me from a window then ducks back behind cover, you can bet your ♥♥♥ I'll shoot a rocket at the building instead of waiting for him to peek out and shoot at me again.

Who are you talking about? Has anyone here complained about this type of use of the CG? The only complaint I've seen so far is about people who are using the CG as their primary weapon.

[jiminator]

so tell me this, engi vs distant sniper, what is he supposed to do? because the SMG will not cut it.

[HvC_Terr]

Just take a look how much better the smgs are at their respective ranges than the other automatics: http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

Uhm... When I multiply the close-range damage by the RoF to get DPS, they seem to be on-par with Assault Rifles. Not necessarily a bad thing given the Engineer's special niche, but SMGs are not hugely better as you describe.

For example:
AEK-971 rifle: ~191 dps
XM8 rifle: ~209 dps
9A-91 SMG: 200 dps
SCAR-L SMG: 200 dps

[MrChris]

dps not that relevant

in the tightest of close quarters fighting, I would always want an SMG, probably even medium range as well

truth be told they work fine over longer ranges as well, and I tap fire down ironsights (a scope on an smg, really now urgh)

[Redtide]

Uhm... When I multiply the close-range damage by the RoF to get DPS, they seem to be on-par with Assault Rifles. Not necessarily a bad thing given the Engineer's special niche, but SMGs are not hugely better as you describe.

For example:
AEK-971 rifle: ~191 dps
XM8 rifle: ~209 dps
9A-91 SMG: 200 dps
SCAR-L SMG: 200 dps


You never get to use that extra DPS with Assault Rifles (aside from AN-94) because they have much more kick while SMG's will hit from the hip and in sustained fire in close quarters more often. This plus their higher damage makes them better damage dealers at close quarters. DPS means nothing, if we went by DPS the M249 would be the best LMG but this is quite clearly not the case in practice.

Also MrChris is correct that SMG's are actually pretty good at range. With fire discipline, the 91-A1 and UMP 45 out perform some of the assault rifles due to their superior damage.

[Karva]

Personally I'm more annoyed being killed by some random sniper who is hiding somewhere up on a hill.

[bejayel]

I'll use it on infantry if I need to. Stop crying. Someone shoots me from a window then ducks back behind cover, you can bet your ♥♥♥ I'll shoot a rocket at the building instead of waiting for him to peek out and shoot at me again.

That's significantly different than running around with a CG on your shoulder at all times. Way to miss the point.

so tell me this, engi vs distant sniper, what is he supposed to do? because the SMG will not cut it.

I personally EXPECT the snipers on my team to counter snipe. As a sniper, your primary role is to get rid of the other snipers and drop recon balls if they will have an effect.

For that reason, I spot them and leave them alone. 99% of the time I will either hear 4 or 5 bullets zoom past without hitting me, they will hit me but not to damage, or I will simply leave their sight and they'll give up.

[wooki]

Wuuuuut??? How is this not cool?
Because it's absolutely annoying and "unrealistic" :P

Smg's feel instakill up close. It almost awakens a wee, miffed, 13yr old within me which wants to start screaming "Haxx" when I run into someone with good aim.
Snipers I can live with. They are a constant terror no wargame should be without. Comes with the territory.

Also, if someone bags two or more ppl with one rocket it just means they were too bunched. You have to keep spacing in mind.
I love to use my underbarrel launcher to open up fortified houses. One shot to get the wall out. Another to kill the squatters.
It's not lame. It's tactics :)
Using it as primary is no good due to reload time/low ammo and I don't think it's widely used that way either.

But seriously, I do hate knifers. It's cool when you stumble across each other and leap for a kill. Close combat style. Or just for humiliating assassinations when one has been unwary.
But I hate speedrunners who play superninja and rush around behind our lines just racking up kills. Too CoD'y for my liking.

[Redtide]

Using it as primary is no good due to reload time/low ammo and I don't think it's widely used that way either.

That's practically the only way it is used by the majority of the playerbase. The number of times I've been killed by a CG and that player ever took their gun out is pretty few. I would say 1/100 or so.

[bigbadbrother]

noob tubes

please dont call it a "noob tube" thats reserved for kiddies from cod.

people hate the cg and rpg because its a one shot one kill and you dont even have to aim. i hate it because its just way too easy to use

[wango_tango]

People ruining games is funny. Might I suggest buying MW2 or Black Ops as it has way better explosives that you can get cheap kills to make people rage? It's even easier in those games and you can top it off with cheesy killstreak rewards.

Wasn't aware I was ruining the game by using something that's perfectly allowed. You must really hate this game. I havent even played CoD since CoD4, when perks and killstreaks ruined it, so that insult doesn't really work.




Obviously they only do it because it's unsportsmanlike. They want people to hate them because they think it might fill that emptiness inside from the fact that no one on the planet cares if they live or not.

It's the same mentality that spawns aimbotters and other griefers.

you, sir, are an idiot. You're thinking about it all wrong. When you see someone in real life get mad and flip ♥♥♥♥ at trivial things, what do you do? Me? I laugh at him. What does the vast majority of people do? They laugh as well. So here is me, laughing at you, who is getting mad over something trivial

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

/gonna go CG

[lilbabycat]

so tell me this, engi vs distant sniper, what is he supposed to do? because the SMG will not cut it.

define distant sniper. You can effectively fire and kill with ANY SMG, LMG, AR, Rifle, Slugged Shotgun up to ~350m if you control your shots. DICE made this silly thing where the first shot of every weapon is 100% accurate. So with some patience you can beat a (bad) sniper at his own game.

[bejayel]

define distant sniper. You can effectively fire and kill with ANY SMG, LMG, AR, Rifle, Slugged Shotgun up to ~350m if you control your shots. DICE made this silly thing where the first shot of every weapon is 100% accurate. So with some patience you can beat a (bad) sniper at his own game.

How is that silly? In general, real bullets go where you point your gun for the first shot. Dice didn't program in any environmental factors like wind, but come on, how is that "silly".

[Defiant Wolf]

CG is a tool, it's to be used. And if one of those uses is to blast the hell out of somebody behind a wall, in the open, or a sniper off the ridge; so be it. If they are a scrub that limits themselves to imaginary "codes of honor" and get's all worked up about it, all the better as you are winning the psychological war against them.

Level 50, I've had it platnumed a long time. I still bring out "Uncle Carl" on White Pass and Occasionally Arica Harbor (Conquest). If people don't like it, I really don't give a rip. All they are doing is showing me their mental weakeness and shaky self-worth by whining about it. Congradulations, you have just shown me a chink in your mental armor I can exploit.

Let them whine, let them hate. The only responsibility you owe to them is to play with the tools provided to you, nothing else.

[xm20k]

I'll blast people in the face with a rocket if they catch me short on ammo or in the midst of a reload theyll eat an AT4 rocket (plated the RPG and dont care for the CG against tanks), do I use it as a primary hell no, blast tanks and buildings to dislodge troops yup.

[Redtide]

Wasn't aware I was ruining the game by using something that's perfectly allowed. You must really hate this game. I havent even played CoD since CoD4, when perks and killstreaks ruined it, so that insult doesn't really work.

My point went totally over your head I see. Let's look at the main part of your original post I was referring to:

I use the CG exclusively against infantry and the RPG frequently as well. I do it just to make people rage.

People doing things "just to make people rage" ruins games. I was suggesting you play MW2 or BlackOps because it has a larger population of people susceptible to rage and a lack of any maturity to stop you. You could go to town making people rage and you would just be part of a common group there.

Furthermore, you using the CG isn't the problem. You using it "exclusively against infantry" is the problem. Using these weapons outside of their primary role just to tick people off with no tactics or skill to use is the very definition of trolling. If you used these tools against vehicles or to clear buildings/clumps of infantry I could empathize but when it's only to infuriate other players and and get cheap kills it's senseless and immature.

Level 50, I've had it platnumed a long time. I still bring out "Uncle Carl" on White Pass and Occasionally Arica Harbor (Conquest). If people don't like it, I really don't give a rip. All they are doing is showing me their mental weakeness and shaky self-worth by whining about it. Congradulations, you have just shown me a chink in your mental armor I can exploit.


That's the point though, you're using it as a tool. The vast vast vast majority of players use it as a crutch and spam weapon. That should just not be viable for one weapon to take care of every threat in the game so efficiently. And it's mental weakness to rely on it and justify it's overuse.

[Defiant Wolf]

That's the point though, you're using it as a tool. The vast vast vast majority of players use it as a crutch and spam weapon. That should just not be viable for one weapon to take care of every threat in the game so efficiently. And it's mental weakness to rely on it and justify it's overuse.

What's the difference bewtween maining it and occasionally using it? Me, I see none. I mained the damn thing today on Oasis. I've racked up over a 1000 kills with the weapon and I can honestly tell you it doesn't feel OP. If you had said this in the early days the game before it had been nerfed twice, I would be reluctantly agreeing with you. If somebody wants to pretend their playing quake or Team Fortress 2 and main the thing, more power to them. You and nobody else has any place to tell them they can't use a tool that's in the game. The purpose of the game is kill the enemy and take the objectives WITH ANY WEAPON PROVIDED YOU.

And as for the rage issue - If a person rages about a weapon, they've shown me weakness. I will exploit that weakness and poke at that weakness to cause more to get the upper-hand. If they don't want to exploit that weakness, then don't give me the power. Stay silent, pick up your best weapon and bring it. If you pwn me despite what I use, then you and I both know who the better player is. No need to cause the drama and display weakness with rage. Just show your skillz or go home. Anotherwords, "put up or shut up".

[Colosphe]

I don't understand. If the enemy has tanks, I understand your ire towards CG killers. However, if your enemy is almost all infantry, then I'm not seeing your point. You're mad because they...use a gun you don't approve of?

I wanna see how that goes over in Iraq.

[Redtide]

@Defiant Wolf

The difference between using something as a tool and only using it is quite vast. Using the CG as a tool suggests you are using it for a specific purpose where it is suited for. "Maining" it as you called it is only using it because it's the easiest way to play the game without having any skill or ability comparative to the rest of the game.

Developers have a duty when they make a game to have a semblance of some internal logic. The whole dynamics of recoil vs fire rate vs damage is testament to this. If they wanted everyone to use the best weapon they would have only created one for each class. Likewise with the engineer rocket launchers, there is supposed to be a balance where the AT4 is most effective against armor while the CG is most effective against infantry and the RPG is somewhere in between. The problem is that the CG performs both anti-vehicle AND anti-infantry well. I posted earlier that against the heavy armor, the CG (without modifiers) will take one more shot to kill. One rocket extra in exchange for being the most effective weapon in the game against infantry.


So what you're saying is that if something is broken and the developers don't fix it (or in this case it should never have been added) it's ok to abuse it because it's in the game? Shooter history says this is not the case and typically the community decides against obvious developer oversights. The shut up and put up crowd reduces the game to monotony and boredom seen in the current pro scene of BC2 where everyone uses the same weapon and plays the same class.

As for me personally aside from my intellectual and mental disagreements with using clearly broken weapons, I find their use completely dull and boring. Compared to killing with something else, the amount of skill and effort it takes to get CG kills is so low that it's like sleep-gaming. There's no victory in the kill because you didn't really earn it. For me, the thrill of the game is in the challenge and the outcome of each battle. There's a sense of achievement when you take out several guys or get a ridiculous kill with other weapons that the CG just doesn't have. That is why I've only used it to prove a point and will not use it again. If I wanted passionless combat and mass kills, I would play some arcadey spam fest where each kill is meaningless in the grand scheme.

I don't understand. If the enemy has tanks, I understand your ire towards CG killers. However, if your enemy is almost all infantry, then I'm not seeing your point. You're mad because they...use a gun you don't approve of?

I wanna see how that goes over in Iraq.

Games are based on the assumption of equal footing and rules. Combat is based on stacking the odds in your favor and not dying. Military games would make terrible combat in real life and real life combat would make a terrible game. Try a better analogy.

[racecar bed]

I only get annoyed at people who ONLY use rockets, however instead of raging I sneak up on em and knife em just to say "f uck you"...it makes me feel good :cool:

[Tuoppi]

People who think it's lame/cheap/annoying when other people use cg/rpg should read this: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

[Defiant Wolf]

@Redtide

It is not the player's job to divine what the developer intended, only to play the game as they choose. We can inform them that we feel something is out of whack (And Dice has answered by nerfing the CG TWICE). But until the developer deigns to do something, we can only use what is available to us.

YOU might find the CG dull and boring, but others do not. And I think that's where I'm finding a serious issue with the you. You are passing what amounts to be a moral judgement in an area that there needs to be none.

It's not to say I don't have my own judgements. I personally find LMG's to be boring and unsatisfying. (the overly large clips and lack of trigger discipline) But do I pollute the server air with my opinion? When the M60 was overpowered did I ♥♥♥♥♥ about M60 noobs? Nay, I picked up my 870 MCS loaded with 12 guage slug and let my single-shot-kills do the talking. I knew who the better player was.

And that is what I take issue with. If you truly are the better player, then you don't need to type into the keyboard your disdain for the weapon and show half the server who really doesn't give a rats ♥♥♥ your weakness.

Here's the bottom line Redtide - People are always going to use the weapon they want to use, no matter how people view them. All you can do is change how you react to them. You can choose to use the weapon or not. Either way, your going to be facing them. Better to just man up and deal with it than show the bullies your weakness.

To quote a certain SFIV player who's book get's quoted overoften "Play to win, not to do skillful moves".

[lilbabycat]

How is that silly? In general, real bullets go where you point your gun for the first shot. Dice didn't program in any environmental factors like wind, but come on, how is that "silly".

Have you fired an AR or LMG in real life ?

Standing, your accuracy even with just a single shot is not going to be 100% accurate every time, even for a seasoned soldier. Assuming every soldier is a "super" soldier, then there should be SOME balance between the weapons. An M60 weighs 23lbs, the M16 8lbs. Firing the M60 accurately is VERY difficult standing.

As far as the SMG's, their accuracy is limited partially to barrel length, and also due to (most) of their ammunition types, their range is much more limited than AR's. The UZI is 200m.

All in all, the accuracy of the weapons for a game like this should be 100% on the first shot up to ~100-150m (just for fairness, not realism), and beyond that there should be significant spread.

note: i'm no hardcore weapons guy, and this is only the basics of these weapon characteristics...

[Redtide]

@Redtide

It is not the player's job to divine what the developer intended, only to play the game as they choose. We can inform them that we feel something is out of whack (And Dice has answered by nerfing the CG TWICE). But until the developer deigns to do something, we can only use what is available to us.

YOU might find the CG dull and boring, but others do not. And I think that's where I'm finding a serious issue with the you. You are passing what amounts to be a moral judgement in an area that there needs to be none.

It's not to say I don't have my own judgements. I personally find LMG's to be boring and unsatisfying. (the overly large clips and lack of trigger discipline) But do I pollute the server air with my opinion? When the M60 was overpowered did I ♥♥♥♥♥ about M60 noobs? Nay, I picked up my 870 MCS loaded with 12 guage slug and let my single-shot-kills do the talking. I knew who the better player was.

And that is what I take issue with. If you truly are the better player, then you don't need to type into the keyboard your disdain for the weapon and show half the server who really doesn't give a rats ♥♥♥ your weakness.

Here's the bottom line Redtide - People are always going to use the weapon they want to use, no matter how people view them. All you can do is change how you react to them. You can choose to use the weapon or not. Either way, your going to be facing them. Better to just man up and deal with it than show the bullies your weakness.

To quote a certain SFIV player who's book get's quoted overoften "Play to win, not to do skillful moves".

Now you're making assumptions. First of all I do not bash players in game for using the CG unless they propose that it's balanced and then I will have that debate with them.

Second of all, I mentioned my philosophical and mental points before and then mentioned my personal reason. You calling it a "moral judgement" is absurd and completely aside from the point. By your logic you just passed a morel judgment upon people who use LMGs for no real reason at all (for the record, almost all LMGs have to burst to be effective past the first second or so).

Lastly, I never said CG is uncounterable or unbeatable and I frequently make it a point to knife, repair drill, defibs, or smoke kills to kill CG spammers to show them how bad they are. The point is that the CG breaks the conventions of balance as DICE set up for the rest of the weapons and it allow ordinarily bad players to eliminate good players. That is not good game design and is objective fact. Not moral conjecture or whining about some tactic I don't like, that is something that should never have existed in the game at all.

People who think it's lame/cheap/annoying when other people use cg/rpg should read this: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

The problem here is that the gray area mentioned in the article is subjective so that the play to win but only if we deem it's not too overpowered crowd has all the power in the discussion. This leads to elitism and group think controlling what is used or not. I would argue that from the article that the Akuma example should be fair game. As far as I could tell, Akuma was accessible to everyone so long as they had the code and anyone playing to win would use Akuma. The community decided that Akuma was too powerful and banned Akuma use because no one would use anything but Akuma if it were allowed. This is the same situation for many other games were one weapon or tactic or side in an RTS is perceived as the best so everyone uses it. BC2 has this problem in almost all leagues where both teams are all MG36 medics. It's a problem that developers need to fix and players need to stand up to these kind of shenanigans instead of grinning and bearing it because they're such egomaniacs about winning.

[evoleo24]

Now you're making assumptions. First of all I do not bash players in game for using the CG unless they propose that it's balanced and then I will have that debate with them.

Second of all, I mentioned my philosophical and mental points before and then mentioned my personal reason. You calling it a "moral judgement" is absurd and completely aside from the point. By your logic you just passed a morel judgment upon people who use LMGs for no real reason at all (for the record, almost all LMGs have to burst to be effective past the first second or so).

Lastly, I never said CG is uncounterable or unbeatable and I frequently make it a point to knife, repair drill, defibs, or smoke kills to kill CG spammers to show them how bad they are. The point is that the CG breaks the conventions of balance as DICE set up for the rest of the weapons and it allow ordinarily bad players to eliminate good players. That is not good game design and is objective fact. Not moral conjecture or whining about some tactic I don't like, that is something that should never have existed in the game at all.



The problem here is that the gray area mentioned in the article is subjective so that the play to win but only if we deem it's not too overpowered crowd has all the power in the discussion. This leads to elitism and group think controlling what is used or not. I would argue that from the article that the Akuma example should be fair game. As far as I could tell, Akuma was accessible to everyone so long as they had the code and anyone playing to win would use Akuma. The community decided that Akuma was too powerful and banned Akuma use because no one would use anything but Akuma if it were allowed. This is the same situation for many other games were one weapon or tactic or side in an RTS is perceived as the best so everyone uses it. BC2 has this problem in almost all leagues where both teams are all MG36 medics. It's a problem that developers need to fix and players need to stand up to these kind of shenanigans instead of grinning and bearing it because they're such egomaniacs about winning.

Akuma was something that was/is pretty much unbeatable. An MG36 Weilding medic is not. You can snipe them, you can kill them at super close range etc.

[bejayel]

Have you fired an AR or LMG in real life ?

Standing, your accuracy even with just a single shot is not going to be 100% accurate every time, even for a seasoned soldier. Assuming every soldier is a "super" soldier, then there should be SOME balance between the weapons. An M60 weighs 23lbs, the M16 8lbs. Firing the M60 accurately is VERY difficult standing.

As far as the SMG's, their accuracy is limited partially to barrel length, and also due to (most) of their ammunition types, their range is much more limited than AR's. The UZI is 200m.

All in all, the accuracy of the weapons for a game like this should be 100% on the first shot up to ~100-150m (just for fairness, not realism), and beyond that there should be significant spread.

note: i'm no hardcore weapons guy, and this is only the basics of these weapon characteristics...

We don't use pellets for bullet any more. You know it's the year 2011 right?

These days, it's extremely unlikely that your bullet is going to go in a different direction than where your gun is pointed (environment effects aside). Todays techniques with rifling and ensuring a proper fit pretty much ensure the 1 first shot will be extremely accurate.

The short vs long barrel myth stems from when iron sights were the norm. A longer barrel often provided more consistent shots (obviously). Today, the main difference is longer barrels cause a slower moving projectile.

I have shot several weapons. Never a lmg. I imagine the inaccuracy of using an lmg standing stems from the weight.

[Tuoppi]

The problem here is that the gray area mentioned in the article is subjective so that the play to win but only if we deem it's not too overpowered crowd has all the power in the discussion. This leads to elitism and group think controlling what is used or not. I would argue that from the article that the Akuma example should be fair game. As far as I could tell, Akuma was accessible to everyone so long as they had the code and anyone playing to win would use Akuma. The community decided that Akuma was too powerful and banned Akuma use because no one would use anything but Akuma if it were allowed. This is the same situation for many other games were one weapon or tactic or side in an RTS is perceived as the best so everyone uses it. BC2 has this problem in almost all leagues where both teams are all MG36 medics. It's a problem that developers need to fix and players need to stand up to these kind of shenanigans instead of grinning and bearing it because they're such egomaniacs about winning.
It might be hard to wrap your head around the Akuma example, but it really is very different from the CG/RPG situation in BC2. Akuma was designed on purpose to be overpowered, the developers didn't intend him to be a fair match against the other characters in the game. It would be like if BC2 had a weapon that prevented anyone killing the person who used it.

You are right about it being the developers fault. It's the developers responsibility to make the game so that no weapon/character is the best without any downsides of choosing it. A game where you have to use certain weapon/character to win lacks depth. When that happens the players will eventually move in to another game. Developers can of course fix things, but those fixes must be carefully planned and not based on some scrub on a public server whining how he died to a certain weapon for the millionth time.

[Defiant Wolf]

I know at one point the CG was overpowered. Hell, both it and the M60 was overpowered and banned from competitive play. But is it now?

I have yet to see a logical explanation from you that tells me the CG is overpowered now. Really, the only good arguement is ease of fire, but you could say that with just about any other weapon. Back when the CG's were overpowered, the outer ring was 8 meters (I don't remember what the inner ring was at that time), the explosive perk gave it a ridiculous kill radius of over 3 meters. In those days, triple and quadrople kills were not only possible, but the norm when I chose to use it. This kill radius has been brought in considerably with the reduction to both the inner and outer rings. Double kills are now rare. What more do you want? Unless you know how to glitch the reload (which most people dont), it's reload time is excessivly high giving plenty of opportunity to destroy it between shots. How is it any more of a crutch than using a tank to kill a person? A steady stream of bullets from an MG3? A meat shot with a sniper rifle at close range?

That's where I'm running into an issue with you. Your claiming this thing is OP and I'm just not seeing it. You are claiming it's a crutch and I'm not seeing it anymore of a crutch than any other weapon I get insta-gibbed with. All I'm seeing is a bunch of "it's a fact" without nothing to back it up. Whereas when I look at my own facts, I see...

1) inner ring of the CG's blast radius marginally better than the RPG
2) The reload time (non-weapon-glitch) is the same
3) The weapon is not universally used. People tend to use the weapon they percieve as best in pubs despite the feelings of the "cool crowd". M2 use has fallen to be fairly even with the other rocket launchers in my personal experiances. Most people use an RPG or AT4 these days to better take out armor.

As for the Sirlin comments - your arguements concerning Akuma only hold water if the community can agree it's overpowered. And I'm not convinced the community believes the CG is overpowered. I am convinced, however, that a great number of people hate getting insta-killed by anything and would gleefully turn to shotgun slugs, sniper rifles, and even the other rockets if the CG was made to behave exactly like Desert Combat's Stinger Luancher and do zero damage to infantry.

EDIT - Just want to add this - the last couple times I've mained a CG, my KDR was pretty much the same as I was running the previous maps. In the early days, this wasn't always the case. I think DICE has done a fine job of balancing the thing.

[Redtide]

Akuma was something that was/is pretty much unbeatable. An MG36 Weilding medic is not. You can snipe them, you can kill them at super close range etc.

It's not beatable in competitive play unless your team is WAY better or you use the XM8 LMG which is almost the same gun. My point is that there is always some setup that will be vastly better than everything else.

It might be hard to wrap your head around the Akuma example, but it really is very different from the CG/RPG situation in BC2. Akuma was designed on purpose to be overpowered, the developers didn't intend him to be a fair match against the other characters in the game. It would be like if BC2 had a weapon that prevented anyone killing the person who used it.

But it is possible to defeat someone who uses Akuma who doesn't know how to abuse it right? We're talking about competent players using Akuma and being unbeatable not button mashing scrubs never losing. This kind of thing, although not as extreme, happens in tons of competitive games. Someone competent with X invalidates Y and Z so everyone only uses X. X later becomes ostracized by the community and is later either banned or discouraged.

@Defiant Wolf

I established that the CG does not fit the conventions that DICE used to balance rocket launchers and the rest of the game. It is the most forgiving anti-infantry weapon that is still great against choppers and tanks with the tracer. I fulfills every role with the only downside being long range and reload time. I would propose that that is enough to consider it OP.

If you don't buy that argument, how do you justify a weapon that allows poor to mediocre players to consistently get kills on players better than them? Do you honestly think it is fair that it takes say 5 hits at close range to kill someone with an assault rifle but someone using the CG just has to turn and fire once? Is it really necessary to have a weapon that can be used once in the general vicinity of enemies that almost guarantees a kill and then retreat to safety to start the process over again?

As for the other one hit kill weapons, you have to hit the hitbox or get extremely near to it to do damage any significant damage at all. Let's play a Sesame Street game called what doesn't belong: Headshot with sniper rifle, Shotgun w/Slugs, CG. Those were the instagib weapons you mentioned. Headshots with sniper rifles take aiming skills and make you weak in close range. Slugged shotgun shells take two hits at medium to long range and at short range you have to be extremely accurate otherwise the enemy will waste you between shots. CG does more damage and has a wide splash area.

One last thing, I question the validity of your anecdote about CG use and the your assertion that it isn't overly used. The biggest flaw that people commit is using it as if they were using something else and not altering their playstyle. When using the CG, you don't play like you otherwise would. Playing conservative high spam gain reaps huge rewards with the CG that's hard to duplicate with other weapons and thus most players don't typically play like that. The people who do use it (which I would say is at least 3/4 of all engineers if not more from experience) are playing a different game than the rest of the playerbase. I wouldn't go so far as to say that their way of playing is wrong, but that it's overly simplified compared to the ability it takes to play any other way and diminishes the value of other playstyles.

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

Compared to every primary weapon, the CG is OP. All you need to do is hit somewhere within a 12 foot diameter circle and you get a kill. This is why some of us think people who use the CG as their primary weapon are noobs. Pretty simple.

The arguments about winning at all costs, or it being a valid part of the game, etc. are just a sideshow, a wild goose chase. Those arguments don't address the underlying issue. Bottom line, the kids running around with the CG as their primary either severely lack in skill or are just being punks. You're only marginally better than the people with aimbot.

[Chimera36]

I use the CG exclusively against infantry and the RPG frequently as well. I do it just to make people rage. People getting angry over video games is funny

This.

[kheavy]

Like ppl even play this competitively anymore.

[Keyelite]

In Vietnam, I rarely get RPG'd by infantry.

In BC2, CG is the weapon of choice.


Problem?

[Johnnykey]

No. Just no. The submachine guns are the best weapons up close doing on average higher damage than LMG's and assault rifles while firing faster. Sounds like you've played too much CoD if you think since a gun is silenced it does less damage.

Just take a look how much better the smgs are at their respective ranges than the other automatics: http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

You should never loose an even fight up close with an SMG and with the 91-A1 or UMP you can win most long range fights as well.

Your assumption is totally wrong, since i have 19 hours on MW2 and 75 hours on BC2. I don't care about that graphic, the FACT is that most SMGs (in particular EARLY ones) suck in damage. The first SMG is better than AEK? Seriously? Even if it is, the cartriges are damn small so in a 75% chance i'll have to reload before killing the target. Meaning, the graphic's "assumption' is also wrong, at least in the sense that in practical matters it's totally different. No i never thought they were weaker cause they're silenced, it's just a fact taken from my experience.

This got different when i made a new level 1 character. But at first when i started, leveling an engineer without a rocket launcher was really hard (harder than other classes, second only to leveling a Recon with a manual/slow/huge-recoil sniper rifle), which was my point.

[Lolinator111]

Because the kill ends with a massive explosion in a person face :D

people will usually moan about mortar strikes as well for the same reason.

They cannot deal with being killed in a very heavy duty way, so they moan about it.

[Defiant Wolf]

I don't think you are even looking at the numbers. I believe you are making your assumptions purely on gut feeling which is clouded by the weapon's horridous days of being OP. I believe this because you seem to believe it's just at good at taking out armor as the other two rockets. Here are some raw numbers for you to consider versus vehicles

CG rocket - 280 damage wexplosive perk 350 weak side max 700
RPG Rocket - 360 Damage wexplosive perk 450 weak side max 900
AT4 Rocket - 380 damage wexplosive perk 475 weak side max 950

Without going into all the details of how impacts versus weak armor and angles impact the damage, the bottom line is that the CG does significantly less damage to armor than the other two rockets. Although I will admit that the CG is able to take out a tank in two shots like the other two if it gets perfect hits on the weak side and the vehicle is unsupported. (both heavy vehicles have 1250 hitpoints). The margin of error on the CG however is only 150 points, making it highly more likely to fail on the second of the vehicle moves or gets a fast repair. (compared to the 550 and 650 points of overkill the other two have available)

Also, consider the following changes that have been made...

AT4 has had it's speed increased to CG speed
AT4 has had it's splash damage slightly increased, again, for anti infantry purposes. (it's right there in the patch notes http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2010/10/28/patch.aspx)

This tells me that DICE fully intends us to use these rockets versus infantry. They just adjust the splash and damage to highlight their roles. The RPG is well balanced all round being good at both, the CG does considerably less damage to armor, as it's speed makes it good for aircraft and it's splash is the best. The AT4 has the least splash because it's guided, but has been given a speed boost to make it more viable to use.

The rockets are balanced versus each other. And like it or not DICE fully intended us to use the rockets versus infantry.

Was the weapon overpowered at one point? Absolutely. Is it now? Not against the other rockets. If you don't like dying consistantly to something that kills somebody in one shot, we have a ton of other weapons we can be discussing. I think this discussion is deriving more from people who have this mental block that "rockets should be used versus vehicles" here and just refuse to adapt to what the game was designed to do. They only see a splash damage weapon with easy delivery. They don't see such things as

1) High weapon visability. All three launchers are easy to spot, and their smoke trails easy to follow for everybody to see and determine the location of the shooter.
2) Long reload times. Even glitching the reload gives the other team over 4 seconds to find and respond to the shooter before he's ready again.

No, all they see is "X weapon is killing me before I can respond" and they don't like that. In fact, I think most people are looking at it from a 1 versus 1 situation while completely ignoring the team dynamic. Yah, my CG may of just smoked that guy on the road that was probably going to get shot by the MG on the other side of the road... but my smoke trail just got spotted by the tank I didn't see and now me and my squadmates are facing tank shells. And here I am with a CG and the front armor facing me.... fffuuuuu........

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

Fact: CG, RPG, AT4 (aka 'rocket') result in a 1 shot infantry kill if they impact anywhere within an approximately 904 cubic feet sphere (that is, a sphere with a diameter of approximately 12').

Resolved: Because of this extreme lethality and the lack of aim required to eliminate infantry targets with a rocket, using a rocket launcher when playing Battlefield: Bad Company 2 as your primary weapon is an act of utter n00bery, skill-less idiocy, and you shall be known forever after as a SCRUB.

Addendum: It is legitimate to use a rocket launcher for shooting vehicles, destroying cover, eliminating infantry behind aforementioned cover, shooting wookies off a hill, and when you are out of primary and secondary ammunition. You shall not be labeled a scrub or skill-less noob if you use a rocket launcher in these circumstances.

Amen.

[MrChris]

I use the AT4 for the occasional top down no scope kill, also like to snipe people with it

doing that is awesome :p

[Redtide]

As I said earlier, yes the CG is slightly less effective against armor but not significantly so in order to make someone pick the RPG or AT4 instead and I did use numbers earlier with a very simplistic example that the CG will take generally one extra rocket to kill a tank. With everything else, it will one shot it faster than a RPG or AT4 and it has excellent anti-infantry ability. The CG is the most versatile weapon in the game and does every job you could ever need well.

Also, the AT4 change was needed as it didn't do any splash at all making it worthless against enemies behind destructible cover or on anything but a direct hit. Personally, I would prefer the less splash, higher damage version of the AT4 if it also came with the speed buff but Demize thought a rocket launcher killing vehicles efficiently was overpowered :rolleyes:

I use the AT4 for the occasional top down no scope kill, also like to snipe people with it

doing that is awesome :p

Countersniping on Atacama or Panama Canal with the AT4 is priceless.

[MrChris]

doing it on isla inocentes to all the god dam attacking wookies is great as well lol

[Defiant Wolf]

Fact: CG, RPG, AT4 (aka 'rocket') result in a 1 shot infantry kill if they impact anywhere within an approximately 904 cubic feet sphere (that is, a sphere with a diameter of approximately 12').

Resolved: Because of this extreme lethality and the lack of aim required to eliminate infantry targets with a rocket, using a rocket launcher when playing Battlefield: Bad Company 2 as your primary weapon is an act of utter n00bery, skill-less idiocy, and you shall be known forever after as a SCRUB.

Addendum: It is legitimate to use a rocket launcher for shooting vehicles, destroying cover, eliminating infantry behind aforementioned cover, shooting wookies off a hill, and when you are out of primary and secondary ammunition. You shall not be labeled a scrub or skill-less noob if you use a rocket launcher in these circumstances.

Amen.

By that logic, we need to apply that to the 40mm nade launcher as well, and grenades. Hell, let's include C4 too since it has the largest cubic foot sphere of the bunch :)

Oh, let's not forget shotguns and their cones of destruction.

We can't even agree on the definition of scrub. To me a scrub is somebody who limits themselves by imaginary codes of honor. EI "I won't use Ken or Ryu because they are "cheesy" spam characters." or "I won't use the CG because it's cheesy".

That's what you guys are doing. Your setting up set of rules that are not written into the code of the game and trying to get people to play a certain way. Then when others don't play by your rules, you get all bent out of shape and start taunting. Do yourselves a favor, either kill the bastards your way or find a server that plays by your rules. Hell, I won't fault you for it. While it's not my cup of tea, I can respect people who want to set up a server to play by a certain ruleset and I'll be happy to abide by that ruleset. I just wish people who want to live by their little Bushido codes of honor would leave everybody else alone who wants to play their own game. It's not like we're hacking or anything.

[Redtide]

Some people will always want fairness over being able to pubstomp with an overpowered weapon. The other weapons in the game generally have a place that they are good at and weak at. Just using the CG is like using all Queens is chess, sure it's fun for a little while until the novelty wears off and you want to start using tactics or strategy again.

[Boogeyman-TPF-]

I think you're just being Defiant, Wolf.

[Particle]

With explosive spec (which any engineer has) the engineer rocket launchers do:
CG 350
RPG 450
AT4 475

Tanks have 1250 health and assuming no multipliers for a test case, the RPG and AT4 will kill on their 3rd shot while the CG will kill on it's 4th. That's one extra rocket in exchange for greatly enhanced anti-infantry and decent anti-tank especially with a tracer. Far from "useless" I would say.

Theoretically, yes, but it's rare to engage a tank straight on. Most of the time you're penalized for the angle of your rocket and it ends up taking 5 or 6 CG hits to kill a tank if you're lucky enough for there not to be an engineer with the tank (rare). If they have an engineer (and they almost always do), you're probably not going to be able to kill that tank even with an AT4 before you run out of rockets or get killed.

[A. James]

The CG does ridiculous damage towards infantry and I can understand a lot of whine towards it. It's hard to dodge at close range and it rarely feels fair to be killed by it. But really, keep shooting infantry with it if it works out.

It seems like it has more splash damage than any tank artillery. I also think (off topic) that the mounted heavy guns are underpowered. I can do better with my SMGs than the mounted guns. I had 5 hit markers on an enemy when I was firing with a mounted heavy gun and he didn't die. He squirreled away somewhere. Now maybe I could be wrong; maybe the mounted guns have a tiny bit of splash damage and that's why I was getting hit markers....

[A. James]

I think you're just being Defiant, Wolf.

Top drawer. Top drawer, my friend. You are quite whimsical!

[Tuoppi]

We can't even agree on the definition of scrub. To me a scrub is somebody who limits themselves by imaginary codes of honor. EI "I won't use Ken or Ryu because they are "cheesy" spam characters." or "I won't use the CG because it's cheesy".Boogeyman and Redtide seem like scrubs to me.

[Redtide]

Boogeyman and Redtide seem like scrubs to me.

There is something to be said for not following the crowd and trying other things. If I was that worried about KDR I would never play rush and I would just camp as a recon every round. What fun that would be...

It's a shame that people take the game so seriously that ruining it for other people in the name of winning takes precedence over having an even battle and the victory meaning something.