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View Full Version : This game is NOT a dungeon keeper clone.


bloodhound01
01-27-2011, 03:29 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fa2g3/hello_gaming_i_was_a_dungeon_keeperss_1_2_fanatic/

Read this for good reviews and analysis.

Don't be decieved by the deceptive advertising. Its a bland game masked by the uniqueness and success of a previous series.

by MrSenator

This comment is going to be long, because I have always been a passionate DKII gamer, and people need to be informed about this game before the almost-deceptive advertising causes you to waste your money like I did.

I, too, played the game to test it while waiting on my preorder. Unfortunately they didn't learn from the success of Tropico 3, which simply did everything Tropico 1 did but better. THAT is how you remake a game.

I know it's not supposed to be the exact same IP, but if you name your game Dungeons, have a dungeon lord, and even a dungeon heart, you are going to get comparisons of the original games.

It doesn't even make any sense. I don't want to cater to heroes and "entertain" them. I want to have the best dungeon with the best defenses and traps.

What is the point of the monsters you have to find and build pentagrams to summon? If I have too many monsters, they kill heroes before they get entertained. If I don't have enough, well they are useless.

Essentially you have to bounce your dungeon lord around as he's demoted to ♥♥♥♥ing janitor status of having to mop up all the heroes but only after they've been pampered by your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dungeon.

Once a hero has been entertained you only have so long before they exit your dungeon. At one point I had heroes on opposite ends of the dungeon plundering my gold (which is entertainment to them) and by the time I killed one the other had left the dungeon before my dungeon lord could get there.

To make it worse, both heroes always appeared at the exact same time so I always had to choose between one or the other. If I placed monsters to guard one entrance they would kill the hero before they were entertained. There is simply no other option but to use your dungeon lord for every combat situation in the game.

And what do you get for doing so? Sure, you get a couple cool spells. There's a good atmosphere with some cool items to place to make it more dungeon-y. Mostly though, by killing entertained heroes you get to unlock buildings that...entertain heroes better! wtf?

This isn't the Evil Hilton where we fluff your pillows for you and try to accomodate your every need. I am supposed to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dungeon lord.

There are no rooms to speak of, really. The rooms you do build, like a library, are only there to entertain heroes. You dont build chicken farms to feed your monsters.
There IS a number of prison cells that let you capture heroes, that is how you drain their soul energy. Again, this falls short of DKII. They don't get dragged there, but are magically transported. They don't wallow in their misfortune and cry out in pain- they just stand there like statues in their cell with a +23 Energy ticker appearing over their heads so often.

Again, I wouldn't be half as disappointed with this game if they didn't try everything in their power to bill it as the spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper.

Sorry this is so long. I am absolutely passionate about the Dungeon Keeper franchise and now it looks like we'll never get a proper continuation of the series.

tldr: Dungeons is barely a game, few construction options, the creatures you summon are absolutely useless, entertaining heroes is a dumbass mechanic, and the advertising is downright deceptive about how this game is the spiritual successor of Dungeon Keeper.

If you want to play a game that has more features than Dungeons, play Dungeon Keeper 2, which was released over a ♥♥♥♥ing decade ago.

Addendum: It seems like they will be expanding modding support for this game, so there is definitely potential as the engine itself isn't bad, it's mostly the mechanics of the game that ruin it for me. For the sake of all possible future Dungeon Keeper games, I hope this pans out.

Just enlightning people if they think this is dungeon keeper, it is not.

targetbsp
01-27-2011, 05:32 PM
I dunno where that guy is looking... but the promotional text for the game on Amazon UK at least in no way implies it's Dungeon Keeper. In fact it makes it quite clear that your main task is to entertain the heroes.
If you're a self confessed 'passionate' DK fan and try to play it as such then it's somewhat going to fall short of expectation! As would say... Streetfighter. :P If you play it as the game it actually is then it's pretty damn good fun.

Also, the heroes do get dragged into the cells by your goblins (unless you choose to teleport them) and I'm pretty sure I've heard them complaining about being tortured in the prisons.

MSPreacher
01-27-2011, 08:18 PM
Sounds like someone is very upset this game is not like DK. Gee, I wonder if I would've been able to find that out from the tons of previous threads here which already say that?

Ric666
01-28-2011, 02:16 AM
I think we knew already this but thanks for the wall of text..lol...

targetbsp
01-28-2011, 03:08 AM
I can understand someone who absolutely loves the original to be very disappointed if they were expecting more of the same. I'm the same with anything related to X-Com that even slightly deviates from the original formula! But I don't think it's fair on the game to be dismissed because of that rather than being judged for what it is. For starters, DK is so old, half the current gamers have probably never even played it! And what exactly are the rules? No-one is allowed to make an original game about building a dungeon? It has to be exactly the same as DK? You don't see people dismissing Sonic for not playing exactly the same as Mario.

People may like this game, they may not. But I don't think it's fair on the game to publicly rant about it because it's not what you were expecting when it's not claimed to be that.

There's always the possibility that if this sells well, whoever currently owns the rights to DK is inspired to do DK3! I always buy my X-Com like games for just that reason lol.

bloodhound01
01-28-2011, 11:39 AM
the thing is, everything about the game screams DUNGEON KEEPER and its not like they made any effort to try to hide the fact it wasn't dungeon keeper.

Dungeon Heart?
Goblins?
Dungeon Lord?
Digging Rooms?
Digging for gold veins?
Fighting other dungeon lords?
Fighting Heroes?
Having monsters in your dungeon?
A million other dungeon keeper references?
etc.

It clearly WANTED to be a dungeon keeper game, i don't know how you say it wasn't trying to be, nearly every aspect of the game is 1:1 with dungeon keeper.

Not a dungeon keeper remake like it was clearly trying to be? check.

Biologica
01-28-2011, 12:00 PM
the thing is, everything about the game screams DUNGEON KEEPER and its not like they made any effort to try to hide the fact it wasn't dungeon keeper.

Dungeon Heart?
Goblins?
Dungeon Lord?
Digging Rooms?
Digging for gold veins?
Fighting other dungeon lords?
Fighting Heroes?
Having monsters in your dungeon?
A million other dungeon keeper references?
etc.

It clearly WANTED to be a dungeon keeper game, i don't know how you say it wasn't trying to be, nearly every aspect of the game is 1:1 with dungeon keeper.

Not a dungeon keeper remake like it was clearly trying to be? check.

Exactly they have promoted this game as being a DK game.

Verwandlung
01-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Agreed they try to sell this as "an homage to DK", but the gameplay is nothing like DK. (it sucks)

Zarunil
01-28-2011, 01:20 PM
Agree. Ever since reading about it, I've had the impression that it was going to be the spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper.

Could not be further from the truth. The game is terrible, and I feel sorry for all the people who bought it thinking it would be Dungeon Keeper 3.

To the OP: thanks for starting this thread. It is important people know what they are buying.

yossarian22
01-28-2011, 01:51 PM
Exactly they have promoted this game as being a DK game.

Yeah seriously, I don't know how people can defend this game, its blatantly clear that it IS taking everything from DK, but doing it worse. I wouldn't care about the fact its nearly a carbon copy of DK if they actually updated the graphics and animations and didn't make it boring by making it about entertaining the heroes. If you want a crappy version of a game that still looks and plays the same as a game from 2000, then yeah by all means get this game.

targetbsp
01-28-2011, 05:20 PM
Seriously...where have you guys bought it from? Because all the UK shops and steam describe exactly how the game plays. And it doesn't sound anything like dungeon keeper. So who is telling you it is?? :D
Your expectations are in no way in-line with what the game is or claims to be. I'm not sure that's the games fault... ;)

Irenicus999
01-29-2011, 02:29 AM
Seriously...where have you guys bought it from? Because all the UK shops and steam describe exactly how the game plays. And it doesn't sound anything like dungeon keeper. So who is telling you it is?? :D
Your expectations are in no way in-line with what the game is or claims to be. I'm not sure that's the games fault... ;)

Agreed.

targetbsp
01-29-2011, 04:06 AM
I just hate to see a game knocked for what it isn't. Unless you only like one game in the whole world and that game is Dungeon Keeper then dismissing a title for not being that is daft. The game should be judged for what it is. And everyone is entitled to like or dislike it for what it is.
Personally I found it interesting from the start but it did take me a good while to decide it would entertain me in the long term. So I'd hate to see someone play it for half and hour and discard it for not being DK because it needs longer than that for its own merits to shine through - at least for me. Of course if you spend all that time seething that it's not DK as opposed to approaching it with an open mind then it stands no chance.

yossarian22
01-29-2011, 10:08 AM
Seriously...where have you guys bought it from? Because all the UK shops and steam describe exactly how the game plays. And it doesn't sound anything like dungeon keeper. So who is telling you it is?? :D
Your expectations are in no way in-line with what the game is or claims to be. I'm not sure that's the games fault... ;)

The video and the screenshots make it look exactly like DK, and in essence it is basically the same as DK. Now for people saying that it cant be enjoyed when we are comparing it to DK, thats not really the case. Because if we don't compare it to DK, then it is a bad game all on its own with its dated graphics, animations, and gameplay mechanics. Comparing it to DK is trying to give it some redeemable qualities to make up for its dated gameplay/graphics/animations.

chaintm
01-29-2011, 02:17 PM
Eh, nothing new here, this is no shocking news unless you just look at screens and bullet points (See the ones you want to see ) and think DK. The gameplay this person describes is the game I expected , SOUNDS GREAT! The idea here is to setup your dungeon to pamper the so call heroes so you can make them super happy then slug them to death or even torcher later, but anyways getting off track.

I am a huge DK fan and like the OP at first (before it was even on steam) I thought it was a DK remake of somesort, but not like the OP, I actually read about the game and did some investigative work. However, steam has a nice description that pretty much sums up the game well.

I am looking forward to it myself...


P.S. If you devs see this, I still want my doors :)

Jderz
01-29-2011, 02:36 PM
I was not expecting a DK clone, but I am disappointed nonetheless from the feedback based on the german demo and full game. The concept sounds like it could be great, but people are making some very sound suggestions in the official game boards that leaves me the impression that the game has been badly executed.

The gist of what I am gathering is the mechanics of hero harvesting is unnecessarily tedious. You DL is stuck with most of the managerial duties, and if your monsters end up killing a hero for you - you are penalized (very lame). Dungeons are nothing more than hallways with prestige items placed at the end of them to kite the heroes around to build up soul energy. Prestige items themselves are nothing more than static objects that make the heroes go "wow" and proceed to walk to the next object of interest until they are ready for your DL to harvest.

Overall, i'm not impressed. I will try the demo when its released here, but this doesn't sound like a game I would bother with unfortunately. It sounds unnecessarily gimmicky and tedious. Such a shame.

Nenjin
01-30-2011, 01:07 AM
I've played the German demo extensively. I'll tell you what I know.

You can, in most cases, control how many hero gates are open at once. If you have two in the level, you can choose to open only one. And you can dig as much as you want, build with the starting resources you have, before you choose to open it.

Secondly, the harvesting. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. It can be tedious, sometimes. You get MORE soul energy when your DL kills heroes than when your monsters do. 75% more. But you still get soul energy if your monsters kill them, and your goblins will still put them in prison for you.

Heroes will leave when full, but only escape if you've got a poorly designed dungeon. When heroes are lured deep enough, they have to walk back through all your monsters, they have no potions and they're usually almost dead. So your monsters often can finish them.

And yes, if heroes leave, they take some of your gold with them. But if you're absolutely strapped for cash, just starting murdering heroes the minute they enter the dungeon. They all bring gold in with them, and you can increase your cash quickly not bothering to juice them for soul energy.

The first level of the tutorial makes the point: if you have satisfied heroes near an exit, they will leave quickly, so make them get away from the exit before they get satisfied. Leave little piles of gold in a path to the big chest full of gold....75% of them will not make it out alive if you're doing it right.

And then, if you really need to, you can send your dungeon lord in. He's great for getting that extra boost of soul energy, and what i usually do is wait til most heroes are about 50% full, then I just kill them all. It doesn't take that much effort. Micromanaging to kill every single hero at full is overkill, in the demo at least. You don't need to manage it that intensely.

That said, the game could do a few more things to make dealing with heroes less bothersome, and Realmforge is looking into it.

Still, people's initial impressions aren't accurate to me. The first tutorial level is made of fail, I won't deny it. But get beyond that. There's actually some subtleties to how you design your dungeon and how efficient it is. Your dungeon lord, in my opinion, is the 10 ton hammer you use to clean heroes out of your dungeon and get a fresh set to see how things are working.

giskarduk
01-30-2011, 06:04 PM
Its appearance is that of DK, no way to hide that fact from anybody. But they say build your ultimate dungeon, so i am expecting to do some building. They say there are others to compete against, so I am expecting competition.

From the sounds of it we just lure heros in kill them and then save the spirit energy or what ever and spend it on something. The above review misses that out. EG like the guy didnt play it long enough to get the big picture.

What he did post is alarming though and there is no doubt the game is being presented as DK type game. But its clearly not going to be one.

chaintm
01-30-2011, 06:05 PM
I was not expecting a DK clone, but I am disappointed nonetheless from the feedback based on the german demo and full game. The concept sounds like it could be great, but people are making some very sound suggestions in the official game boards that leaves me the impression that the game has been badly executed.

The gist of what I am gathering is the mechanics of hero harvesting is unnecessarily tedious. You DL is stuck with most of the managerial duties, and if your monsters end up killing a hero for you - you are penalized (very lame). Dungeons are nothing more than hallways with prestige items placed at the end of them to kite the heroes around to build up soul energy. Prestige items themselves are nothing more than static objects that make the heroes go "wow" and proceed to walk to the next object of interest until they are ready for your DL to harvest.

Overall, i'm not impressed. I will try the demo when its released here, but this doesn't sound like a game I would bother with unfortunately. It sounds unnecessarily gimmicky and tedious. Such a shame.

Personally that's where I think people are approching this game as a DK clone. If you do, then what you wrote is what I would expect. However, the very mechanic to which you speak is exactly the issue.The concept here is not to just "throw a dungeon togather quickly" like we did in DK. It is (as I see it) taking the time to understand the heroe's needs, then designing it slow (not all the uber stuff and instant kill off mob monster/traps etc) then when they are nice and fat, capture them and or kill.

In the end I think that is where people (as I read the forums as well) see the game. Not as what it is, but some sort of clone of DK, which is isn't. So in this, taking the real concept behind the game, I can see why people are frustrated. I never thought once this was an instant satisfaction game played in 10 min per level.

The way I read it and understand it from what we know from the devs is... It's about designing the "perfect" dungeon to harvest these do gooders the best we can. So throwing up a room and filling it with crap of whatever won't work. In DK that worked fine because everything was pretty streight forward, I see this one as a bit more hit and miss and mixing your items to get it "just right".

I like the idea of taking my time and building the ultimate dugeon like this, I guess some won't but the idea definitly sounds fun!

I do have one negative to say thou, I still wish they had doors :) could do allot with them. Slow heroes down, make places impassible till your ready. Use it as a trap and more. Hope the game does well and we see additions,. I know if the game does do well the devs allready said "MP? you bet, if we get enough numbers interested" so they obviously have plans for expansions and possible dlc if it sells enough. Sounds great to me!

Jderz
01-30-2011, 07:09 PM
So throwing up a room and filling it with crap of whatever won't work. In DK that worked fine because everything was pretty streight forward, I see this one as a bit more hit and miss and mixing your items to get it "just right".


See, I wasn't getting that impression at all. I was getting the idea that the layout and design of your dungeon didn't really matter since the prestige items have very little effects on the heroes themselves other than building soul energy.

Whats the point of planning out your dungeon if the items just serve as a cosmetic feature to lead the hero from point A to point B? Items don't debuff heroes, they don't confuse, they don't anger them, they don't poison or damage them? Wheres the motivation to put any real critical thought into dungeon design? What keeps all the items from being redundant after a while if they do not have any unique uses other than for looks? I don't mind a dungeon designing game with light elements of the sims in it, but I certainly do not want to play dungeon interior designer. Nothing screams fabulous more than a room with hanging skeletons and a cauldron of blood! /lisp :rolleyes:

I'm not repressing desires for a spiritual successor of dk, but what I am looking for a quality game. Dungeons does not sound like it delivers on its own concepts and thats what is keeping me away. I hope the demo demonstrates otherwise though.

P.S if you thought dungeon keeper had nothing to do with thoughtful room placement you are doing it wrong :p