Short questionnaire about Genetic Engineering of Humans

[Liquid-Flame DK]

Greetings once again, SPUF.

As part of my education, my group and I are required to work with genetic engineering of humans. We wanted to take a look at the international opinion on the subject, and i thought "what better place to look than the Dave!" even though i decided to rephrase it to avoid wierd looks.

The link is here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFAxMURCUlhoOFlCOThkZUpVOG93b0E6M Q
The entire thing should take around 2 minutes to complete at most, and would be highly appreciated. Thank you in advance for participating :)

EDIT:
Results:
Note: 53 responses


If you were given the option to genetically engineer and thus improve your child, what would you do?

Improve intelligience: 26%
Improve Strength: 9%
Improve Looks: 4%
Prevent Diseases: 66%
I would not genetically engineer my child: 28%
People may select more than one checkbox, so percentages may add up to more than 100%.



If you were asked to sign a petition against genetic engineering of humans, would you sign it?

Yes: 17%
No: 58%
Maybe: 23%
Dont know: 2%



Average Age: 22
Highest age: 52
Lowest age: 14



Nationalities:
USA: 22
UK: 12
Canada: 4
Denmark: 4
Australia: 2
Germany: 2
Bulgaria: 1
Czech Republic: 1
Scotland: 1
Portugal: 1
Phillippines: 1
New Zealand: 1
Estonia: 1

GENDER:
Female: 7
Male: 46

[VAC Angel]

Nice survey. Genetic engineering is an interesting subject. But I believe that there is a reason for everything, including disease.

[TAU neutrino]

More questions would be nice. :)

And why should there be a reason for everything? There might be an explanation, but that doesn't mean there is an ultimate reason to everything.

[sad_ism]

Genetic engineering occurs before birth, right? Cause I was thinking of adoption.

[Liquid-Flame DK]

Genetic engineering occurs before birth, right? Cause I was thinking of adoption.

Thats mainly what the survey is about, although you could technically also modify after birth. Thats a lot more complicated though, and to my knowledge not done yet. You could theoretically cure stuff like cystic fibrosis through that, as mentioned.'

As to more questions, we wanted a few, but precise questions. That way its quick and accesable to all, too.

[bluz74]

Genetic engineering occurs before birth, right? Cause I was thinking of adoption.

Not in America. Plastic surgery is rampamt. :(

[sad_ism]

Thats mainly what the survey is about, although you could technically also modify after birth. Thats a lot more complicated though, and to my knowledge not done yet. You could theoretically cure stuff like cystic fibrosis through that, as mentioned.'

As to more questions, we wanted a few, but precise questions. That way its quick and accesable to all, too.

Okie, I'll answer with that in mind :)

Not in America. Plastic surgery is rampamt. :(

You don't acquire the cleft-chin gene by grafting a silicone butt on your face, though :D

[GirlPower23]

Not in America. Plastic surgery is rampamt. :(

So? Do yuou have a problem with a person wanting to enhance their physical features? It's no different than getting a tattoo, hair dyed or many other things done to your body. If it makes a person feel more confident and better about themselves, nobody has the right to tell them they are wrong for doing it. I support genetic engineering as well, if it can cure disease, fix birth defects, and many more things.. I'll be all for it.

@OP, I'll pass on the survey.

[bluz74]

You don't acquire the cleft-chin gene by grafting a silicone butt on your face, though :D

I thought a silicone butt is in the genes! :D


I agree with everyone's opinion because I don't like to start arguments.

There. I altered your original post to make you feel better about yourself. ;)

[GirlPower23]

There. I altered your original post to make you feel better about yourself. ;)

You could of simply ignored the post, nobody is forcing you to argue nor am I trying to start an argument. It's simply my opinion, if you don't like it just ignore the post. What's funny is you wanted to avoid an argument and now you've started one. irony?

[Kiya]

Interesting, when your survey is over I hope you will share the results with us.

[Modiga-Disabled]

Nice survey. Genetic engineering is an interesting subject. But I believe that there is a reason for everything, including disease.

The reason for disease is that

A) microbes are opportunist; if they find an environment that supports them, they'll live there, even if it's a host whom ultimately dies because of it. The same can be said for parasites, although it varies, some would prefer to keep their host alive, at the very least up until the point they can produce eggs/offspring.

B) Viruses are fascinating all in themselves. They hijack cells and use the 'machinery' within the cell to reproduce themselves.

The theory of evolution by natural selection pretty much dictates that life only does what it does because it ensures survivability of the species. Any species that doesn't act in a way to enable survivability dies off and the self-destructive traits within the species are lost precisely because of this.

[GirlPower23]

The reason for disease is that

A) microbes are opportunist; if they find an environment that supports them, they'll live there, even if it's a host whom ultimately dies because of it. The same can be said for parasites, although it varies, some would prefer to keep their host alive, at the very least up until the point they can produce eggs/offspring.

B) Viruses are fascinating all in themselves. They hijack cells and use the 'machinery' within the cell to reproduce themselves.


Why are humans top of the food chain when it's microbes that are the ones who do a lot more killing than us! :P

A and B are why I support genetic engineering the most, if they were to put a stopper in these two things with it, humans would be far better off. Curing terminal viruses as if they were the common cold.. would be amazing.. don't you agree? :)

[Modiga-Disabled]

Curing terminal viruses as if they were the common cold.. would be amazing.. don't you agree? :)

The common cold isn't curable (at this time). :p

[velvetmeds]

I certainly support intelligence improvements, there are too many idiots running around. Definite "no" for all physical changes, people are already superficial and shallow enough without everyone looking like Ken and Barbie.

[Pebr]

I'd love to see augmentations like in Deus Ex.

However, i'd like it advanced in such a way that you can implant and replace each one on-the-fly to suit your needs.

[GirlPower23]

The common cold isn't curable (at this time). :p

Your body builds an immunity to a specific strain each time you get sick.. thus you can't catch the same cold twice. However, you understood what I said. Imagine genetic engineering allowing your body to cure itself of XXX Virus.

[Modiga-Disabled]

I'd love to see augmentations like in Deus Ex.

However, i'd like it advanced in such a way that you can implant and replace each one on-the-fly to suit your needs.

Yeah, but that sort of system would probably come coupled with universal ammunition and stupidly small map sizes with massive load times.

[Desol8tor]

Genetic engineering occurs before birth, right? Cause I was thinking of adoption.

I thought the alteration of genes post-birth is more of a gene therapy procedure. Maybe I'm just nitpicking terminology.

edit: Only picked disease curing.

edit2: I see you modiga, your presence in this thread is duly noted

[Modiga-Disabled]

Your body builds an immunity to a specific strain each time you get sick.. thus you can't catch the same cold twice. However, you understood what I said. Imagine genetic engineering allowing your body to cure itself of XXX Virus.

That would require a huge understanding of the human genome to be achievable. It would be considerably easier to genetically modify the microbe so that it's not harmful, but does allow the immune system to develop an immunity. Essentially this is just vaccination, but potentially genetic engineering could take it to new levels.

I've heard it might be possible to engineer viruses in such a way that the immune system recognises key parts of the virus's structure. Currently, things like influenza can reinfect people because the host's immune system targets external proteins present in the virus which can readily mutate and change. It's theoretically possible to make a vaccine that allows the immune system to register more vital parts of the virus, which can't so readily mutate (because doing so would hinder the virus's ability to replicate).

[Pebr]

Yeah, but that sort of system would probably come coupled with universal ammunition and stupidly small map sizes with massive load times.

True, the side-effects of each augmentation would probably include an increase of disappointment and misery.

[bluz74]

If you can genetically engineer people into unselfish, hard working, considerate human beings.....I'm all for it.

.....that and 3 boobs would be neat. :)

[notavirus.exe]

I'm against all forms of genetic manipulation. We are all different for a reason, weaknesses and strengths of an individual shouldn't be dictated by how wealthy their parents are.

This type of technology would further divide the class structure into poor, sickly, weaklings (or normal us) and God like, beautiful, super intelligent all powerful beings.

I'm just not for it.

[sad_ism]

I'm against all forms of genetic manipulation. We are all different for a reason, weaknesses and strengths of an individual shouldn't be dictated by how wealthy their parents are.

This type of technology would further divide the class structure into poor, sickly, weaklings (or normal us) and God like, beautiful, super intelligent all powerful beings.

I'm just not for it.

You say that like class differences aren't legitimate differences ;)

Kidding aside, if rich people pay to be guinea pigs to develop this technology, then it can one day be accessible to the masses for cheap.

[notavirus.exe]

You say that like class differences aren't legitimate differences ;)

;) Shhhhhh.


Kidding aside, if rich people pay to be guinea pigs to develop this technology, then it can one day be accessible to the masses for cheap.

We both know walmart will have a branch open about 2 years after the technology is put into practice, creating hybrid babies for less. :D

[marie pavie]

I'm gonna side with Goldfinger here. 'No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die.'

[bluz74]

We both know walmart will have a branch open about 2 years after the technology is put into practice, creating hybrid babies for less. :D

:confused: Babies that combine an internal combustion engine and one or more electric motors? Walmart gonna sell cyborgs! :eek:

[HerBDerb]

My only concern about genetic engineering in humans is if we end up with some ridiculous situation like we currently have in agriculture with patented/trademarked/copyrighted genes.
You'd have companies suing you for royalties when your or your partners modified genes are passed on to your children.

[Liquid-Flame DK]

I would like to wholeheartedly thank all who participated thus far :)

[MADDOGGE]

Nope, genetic engineering is a Pandora's Box that will destroy what it means to be human. They promise the world but bring down destruction upon us all. Who decides how far to go. As with the old anti smoking thing. First it was separate areas on a plane, then no smoking in the plane at all, then buildings, then private businesses, then public, then homes, cars. It would be no different with the people pushing this crap. What humanity is would change forever.

[Gustave5436]

Nope, genetic engineering is a Pandora's Box that will destroy what it means to be human. They promise the world but bring down destruction upon us all. Who decides how far to go. As with the old anti smoking thing. First it was separate areas on a plane, then no smoking in the plane at all, then buildings, then private businesses, then public, then homes, cars. It would be no different with the people pushing this crap. What humanity is would change forever.

"What humanity is" changes all the time. Our perception of what it means to be human is a social construct, which evolves with society. Every time a new invention is made, or an ancient prejudice is forgotten, what it means to be human is altered. Genetic engineering would no more sacrifice our humanity than the civil rights movement or the invention of the microprocessor did.

[DarkLite123]

Nope, genetic engineering is a Pandora's Box that will destroy what it means to be human. They promise the world but bring down destruction upon us all. Who decides how far to go. As with the old anti smoking thing. First it was separate areas on a plane, then no smoking in the plane at all, then buildings, then private businesses, then public, then homes, cars. It would be no different with the people pushing this crap. What humanity is would change forever.

I'm not entirely sure why you think people should be able to fill others' lungs with carcinogenic toxic smoke. If they want to hasten their own death, that's up to them, but I don't want it near me.

On topic: yes, I absolutely support geneering (neologisms ftw).

[Vaemer-Riit]

Nope, genetic engineering is a Pandora's Box that will destroy what it means to be human. They promise the world but bring down destruction upon us all. Who decides how far to go. As with the old anti smoking thing. First it was separate areas on a plane, then no smoking in the plane at all, then buildings, then private businesses, then public, then homes, cars. It would be no different with the people pushing this crap. What humanity is would change forever.

All we need to do is keep a segment of the population isolated so we have a genetic baseline to return to if we screw up.

Heck we could terraform mars and colonize the planet with only GEed people so those on earth would be preserved as the baseline in case we screw up.

[Liquid-Flame DK]

Added results.

[bluz74]

Daw....I lost. :(


Cool survey by the way.

[Mordwyrhta]

I am 100% behind total and extensive genetic engineering of unborn children and, through the use of retroviruses, the population as a whole.

Natural selection is a slow method of evolution, time to change it from natural selection to guided selection.

I voted for increasing all attributes.

Someone said we'd lose what it means to be human... so? Every species on earth is just a transitional species. Will genetically engineered people be human? Yes. Will they be homosapian? No. Neanderthals were human while not being homosapian, they were our genetic cousins but we did better and they died off, they weren't our direct ancestors. The next step will be to create the next human species.

At our hearts, what are humans best at? Conquest and growth. We have a whole galaxy out there to conquer and we're going to need to be better, faster, smarter and stronger to do it.

[TimM]

Nice survey. Genetic engineering is an interesting subject. But I believe that there is a reason for everything, including disease.

Yeah, defects, which should be removed if possible.
There really is no excuse if it is somehow possible.

Just like there are absolutely no cons against stem cell research. It is pure win-win.

The only "real" con is religious views, which of course can't be taken seriously.

[Ultima V|RUZ]

All we need to do is keep a segment of the population isolated so we have a genetic baseline to return to if we screw up.

Heck we could terraform mars and colonize the planet with only GEed people so those on earth would be preserved as the baseline in case we screw up.

The Great GenoWar 2314

[Mordwyrhta]

The Great GenoWar 2314

To be fair, when a superior breed of a given species (and species isn't the right word here, as genetically engineered humans wouldn't be the same species as us, but you get the idea) destroys the inferior breed, be it actively or through overtaking their resources, that's just nature.

Even without genetic engineering, eventually we will have an especiation event and there will be two (or more) species of human on earth. One will likely wipe out the other. We already did it to Neanderthals.

[abcxyq]

I support genetic engineering in ways that save lives and such, but extensive changes will only breed hostility and separation between those who can afford it and those who can't.

[Ultima V|RUZ]

To be fair, when a superior breed of a given species (and species isn't the right word here, as genetically engineered humans wouldn't be the same species as us, but you get the idea) destroys the inferior breed, be it actively or through overtaking their resources, that's just nature.

Even without genetic engineering, eventually we will have an especiation event and there will be two (or more) species of human on earth. One will likely wipe out the other. We already did it to Neanderthals.

I was making a joke, not introducing a debate. :p

[bluz74]

I was making a joke, not introducing a debate. :p

If you don't mind, can I use this when GirlPower23 quotes my posts? Please? it's worded perfectly. :D

[Oliolli]

If you can genetically engineer people into unselfish, hard working, considerate human beings.

That's already being done... not genetically though. Or considerate. You know that headache that comes at a certain time of the day, every day?

Oops, said too much :(

[Mordwyrhta]

I support genetic engineering in ways that save lives and such, but extensive changes will only breed hostility and separation between those who can afford it and those who can't.

That's nature dude. The haves win, the have nots lose. And, believe me, I'm more a have not than a have. I just accept that I have an uphill battle.

[Ultima V|RUZ]

If you don't mind, can I use this when GirlPower23 quotes my posts? Please? it's worded perfectly. :D

For $1.50.

[abcxyq]

To be fair, when a superior breed of a given species (and species isn't the right word here, as genetically engineered humans wouldn't be the same species as us, but you get the idea) destroys the inferior breed, be it actively or through overtaking their resources, that's just nature.

Even without genetic engineering, eventually we will have an especiation event and there will be two (or more) species of human on earth. One will likely wipe out the other. We already did it to Neanderthals.

Even if you genetically engineer some people, they could still be members of the same species as long as they look somewhat similar and can breed with "unaltered" humans.

That's nature dude. The haves win, the have nots lose. And, believe me, I'm more a have not than a have. I just accept that I have an uphill battle.

I don't know about you, but I hate how often I'm killed by people who are better than me.


Seriously, you can't assume everyone is going to die because some rich people get smarter.

[bluz74]

For $1.50.

I'll have shift some money around in my accounts but.....o.k. Deal and thank you.

[abcxyq]

For $1.50.

Wait! I'll give you $1.75!

[Pulseezar]

It depends how far you take it. If you're just taking the best genes from the mother and father and creating the most 'perfect' child they could possibly make (like in Gattaca) then you're not creating a new species you're just removing the 'worst' genes from the gene pool and making the 'best' humans you can. If on the other hand you're taking genes from other animals or making new genes then that will create a new race, one which might make humans look how bonobos look to us in terms of how advanced they are.

[Mordwyrhta]

Even if you genetically engineer some people, they could still be members of the same species as long as they look somewhat similar and can breed with "unaltered" humans.



I don't know about you, but I hate how often I'm killed by people who are better than me.


Seriously, you can't assume everyone is going to die because some rich people get smarter.

I don't think everyone's going to die, I just know that if the world ends up a certain way I'm on the underdog side.

Just means I'm going to have to fight a bit more viciously than the guys on top.

When facing greater odds and power, you must equalize that power. You must be willing to do what they are not willing to do. Every reservation they have is a weakness for you to exploit. Every tough moral decision that they spend time thinking about is an opportunity for you to gain a foothold.

Also, many different species can breed with each other. Donkeys can breed with Horses and Zebras, Tigers can breed with Lions.

The general rule of thumb is the ability to breed with fertile offspring. Once the offspring of a pairing can't breed, it's generally considered the two parents are different species.

Did you know it's never been checked to see if we can breed with apes? Technically we're more genetically similar to a chimp than a donkey and a horse are to each other. It's very possible we could breed with chimps and have offspring, but we're definitely different species.

[stillwater78]

I would definitely not increase the intelligence of my child - that would just give the child a higher likelihood of going through life being depressed, anxious, unfulfilled or frustrated, I think, and what't the point of that. If anything, I'd slightly decrease its intelligence. I wouldn't worry too much about physical diseases, but I'd like to lower its chance of getting mental illnesses like depression. I'd also improve looks - looks give people a head start in life and make them more likely to have self-confidence. Basically, I'd change things that would increase the chance that the child would find happiness. Most people don't find happiness, so if there's a chance to increase the odds, I'd definitely consider it.


Humans are a seriously ♥♥♥♥ed up species. We have the potential to be the best thing to ever happen to this planet and its inhabitants, but we've ended up being the worst thing to ever happen to them. So, I don't see any moral problem with trying to improve the species. In fact, I see a moral problem with NOT trying to.

[Mordwyrhta]

I would definitely not increase the intelligence of my child - that would just give the child a higher likelihood of going through life being depressed, anxious or frustrated, and what't the point of that. If anything, I'd slightly decrease its intelligence. I wouldn't worry too much about physical diseases, but I'd like to lower its chance of getting mental illnesses like depression. I'd also improve looks - looks give people a head start in life and make them more likely to have self-confidence. Basically, I'd change things that would increase the chance that the child would find happiness. Most people don't find happiness, so if there's a chance to increase the odds, I'd definitely consider it.

Ever consider some people would rather be miserable and smart than happy and dumb?

It's like I always say, I'd rather see the ugly truth than believe the beautiful lie.

I have an IQ of 135 and yes, I've struggled with depression my whole life. But that depression isn't due to me being smart, it's due to most people not being smart.

If we could genetically engineer an entire next generation to all be smart, they'd change the world so meaningfully that they'd likely be happy.

[stillwater78]

To be fair, when a superior breed of a given species (and species isn't the right word here, as genetically engineered humans wouldn't be the same species as us, but you get the idea) destroys the inferior breed, be it actively or through overtaking their resources, that's just nature.

Even without genetic engineering, eventually we will have an especiation event and there will be two (or more) species of human on earth. One will likely wipe out the other. We already did it to Neanderthals.There are a lot of things that are 'just nature': murder, sexual assault, sex slavery (dolphins do it), cannibalism, eating your own young, war, laying eggs inside a live creature so that the larvae can devour it from the inside out, and so on. Unless you're Adolf Eichmann, condoning or willing something to happen because it's "just nature" isn't really enough.

[Mordwyrhta]

There are a lot of things that are 'just nature': murder, sexual assault, sex slavery (dolphins do it), cannibalism, eating your own young, war, laying eggs inside a live creature so that the larvae can devour it from the inside out, and so on. Unless you're Adolf Eichmann, condoning or willing something to happen because it's "just nature" isn't really enough.

There's a difference between condoning and accepting.
I don't condone murder, sexual assault, sex slavery, cannibalism etc etc... but I accept them. They're tools. I hope they're tools I am never in a position where I might need to use them, but they're tools none-the-less.

Survival is about adaptation.

[stillwater78]

Ever consider some people would rather be miserable and smart than happy and dumb?

It's like I always say, I'd rather see the ugly truth than believe the beautiful lie.

I have an IQ of 135 and yes, I've struggled with depression my whole life. But that depression isn't due to me being smart, it's due to most people not being smart.

If we could genetically engineer an entire next generation to all be smart, they'd change the world so meaningfully that they'd likely be happy.Yes, I have considered it, and I usually consider such people to be morons. Present company excluded, of course.

You don't see any ugly 'truth'. Your world is just as subjective and distorted and limited by your puny human brain as the rest of us. The only difference is that your brain is perhaps slightly less puny than the average brain - but that's hardly a great achievement, and I don't see why you'd choose a lifetime of misery for such a pointless thing. A feature of many of the great thinkers in history (eg. Socrates, Descartes, etc.) is that they realised just how little, if anything, they knew.

I also have a high IQ and I've also had depression my whole life. Let me give you some honest advice, from my own experience: if you're blaming your depression on others, it sounds like you're not dealing with it very well, and are just becoming bitter and fatalistic. If you haven't already, you should see a psychologist, and try to find the source of the depression, because I promise you, a big part of the source is you, and once you identify the sources, and the things that trigger you, you can get to work and heal it. If you've got a high IQ, use it.

I'd like to believe that engineering a super-intelligent race would make the world a better place, but it's a very dubious concept. We're the most intelligent species around, and we're also the most violent, depraved and destructive - so the evidence points to the fact that maybe we should genetically engineer ourselves to be stupider.

I think it could work if we made the species more intelligent, but I think more than intelligence, we'd want to increase the empathy of our species. We already have more empathy than most or all other species, and it's what makes us great (it's also what made us be successful by the way - it's not just that we knew how to kill the Neanderthals - evolutionary biologists now agree that the greatest achievement we had was the ability to empathise, care for, and hence cooperate and look out for each other). But looking at the state of the world, we evidently need more.

[Kahrandras]

you accept the sex trade?

[bluz74]

you accept the sex trade?

Of course. That's how I completed my baseball card collection. :cool:

[Mordwyrhta]

Yes, I have considered it, and I usually consider such people to be morons. Present company excluded, of course.

You don't see any ugly 'truth'. Your world is just as subjective and distorted and limited by your puny human brain as the rest of us. The only difference is that your brain is perhaps slightly less puny than the average brain - but that's hardly a great achievement, and I don't see why you'd choose a lifetime of misery for such a pointless thing.

I also have a high IQ and I've also had depression my whole life. Let me give you some honest advice, from my own experience: if you're blaming your depression on others, it sounds like you're not dealing with it very well, and are just becoming bitter. If you haven't already, you should see a psychologist, and try to find the source of the depression, because I promise you, a big part of the source is you.

I'd like to believe that engineering a super-intelligent race would make the world a better place, but it's a very dubious concept. We're the most intelligent species around, and we're also the most violent, depraved and destructive - so the evidence points to the fact that maybe we should genetically engineer ourselves to be stupider.

I think it could work if we made the species more intelligent, but I think more than intelligence, we'd want to increase the empathy of our species. We already have more empathy than most or all other species, and it's what makes us great. But looking at the state of the world, we evidently need more.

We're depraved and violent because we're JUST smart enough to be. Carl Jung had a theory that we're at a middle ground. Too human to be animal but too animal to be truly human. Eventually, he believed, we'll step forward into the true human age where our intellect will allow us to truly overcome our animal side.

And remember I said I have struggled with depression my whole life, I am not currently depressed. I found the "out".

It's a similar idea to Buddhism. All suffering is caused by want. Eliminate want, eliminate suffering.

My depression was caused by a desire to "fix" the world. It was caused by looking around me and seeing my fellow man act like idiots when we could live in a utopia with just our current technology. We have the means to feed everyone, cloth everyone, provide power and resources to everyone but we don't because of a multitude of reasons.

This drove me practically insane. I had more than one mental breakdown in my late teens and early 20s.

Within the last few years I have solidified a philosophy that has allowed me to finally find happiness. I deem this philosophy: ♥♥♥♥ 'em.

♥♥♥♥ the stupid people. ♥♥♥♥ the governments. ♥♥♥♥ the poor. ♥♥♥♥ the rich. ♥♥♥♥ the middle class. ♥♥♥♥ me. ♥♥♥♥ you. ♥♥♥♥ the earth. ♥♥♥♥ the universe.

Do you know what I like to do? Play computer games and partake in particular herbal remedies. Do you want to know what I want to keep doing? Playing computer games and partaking in particular herbal remedies. I have my friends, I have my family, I have an easy job and I have my writing. My life is good. The outside world is stupid and infuriating, but ♥♥♥♥ 'em.

It's some convoluted combination of pragmatism, nihilism and Buddhism and it works. I have removed myself from the equation of the outside world and I am finally happy.

Now the perils and horrors of the world are just entertainment.

[Mordwyrhta]

you accept the sex trade?

It's there. It's the oldest profession we know of. It ain't going anywhere. So yeah, I accept it.

I'd prefer they legalize and regulate it to keep it safe like in Holland and Nevada. Safe for the customers and safe for the girls.

[stillwater78]

We're depraved and violent because we're JUST smart enough to be. Carl Jung had a theory that we're at a middle ground. Too human to be animal but too animal to be truly human. Eventually, he believed, we'll step forward into the true human age where our intellect will allow us to truly overcome our animal side.

And remember I said I have struggled with depression my whole life, I am not currently depressed. I found the "out".

It's a similar idea to Buddhism. All suffering is caused by want. Eliminate want, eliminate suffering.

My depression was caused by a desire to "fix" the world. It was caused by looking around me and seeing my fellow man act like idiots when we could live in a utopia with just our current technology. We have the means to feed everyone, cloth everyone, provide power and resources to everyone but we don't because of a multitude of reasons.

This drove me practically insane. I had more than one mental breakdown in my late teens and early 20s.

Within the last few years I have solidified a philosophy that has allowed me to finally find happiness. I deem this philosophy: ♥♥♥♥ 'em.

♥♥♥♥ the stupid people. ♥♥♥♥ the governments. ♥♥♥♥ the poor. ♥♥♥♥ the rich. ♥♥♥♥ the middle class. ♥♥♥♥ me. ♥♥♥♥ you. ♥♥♥♥ the earth. ♥♥♥♥ the universe.

Do you know what I like to do? Play computer games and partake in particular herbal remedies. Do you want to know what I want to keep doing? Playing computer games and partaking in particular herbal remedies. I have my friends, I have my family, I have an easy job and I have my writing. My life is good. The outside world is stupid and infuriating, but ♥♥♥♥ 'em.

It's some convoluted combination of pragmatism, nihilism and Buddhism and it works. I have removed myself from the equation of the outside world and I am finally happy.

Now the perils and horrors of the world are just entertainment.No offence, man, but if you were truly happy, that energy would come through your posts. It doesn't.

Not saying your philosophy doesn't have its merits (and I definitely agree you can't expect to fix everything), but it doesn't sound particularly sustainable either. And you just sound resigned and bitter to me. Sounds pretty hedonistic too, and that rarely brings happiness. The Western world is full miserable hedonists. Just saying. I know it's none of my business so I won't say anymore.

[Mordwyrhta]

No offence, man, but if you were truly happy, that energy would come through your posts. It doesn't.

Not saying your philosophy doesn't have its merits (and I definitely agree you can't expect to fix everything), but it doesn't sound particularly sustainable either. And you just sound resigned and bitter to me. Sounds pretty hedonistic too, and that rarely brings happiness. The Western world is full miserable hedonists. Just saying. I know it's none of my business so I won't say anymore.

It's hard for me to convey emotion through writing as my writing comes off as clinical and dry at times, but I can tell you I am honestly finally happy in my life. I'm getting back together with my ex-wife, I have friends and family around me who care for me and I care for them.

I just had this epiphany that the world wasn't worth being upset over anymore. I mean, think about it. Think how small the earth is in the grand scheme of the universe. It's the equivalent of getting upset about a dust mote. No matter what happens on this planet, the universe is just going to keep doing what it does. Our petty differences, our countries, or religions... worthless. Utterly worthless and so small and insignificant. I kind of asked myself "What would I do if the world was perfect" and I came up with the answer "play videogames and ingest intoxicants".

I started looking at certain social norms from a non anthropocentric view. I broke down certain rules by their universal logic instead of a human or earth centric viewpoint.

Oddly enough, what I came to was a little mantra that was repeated in the Assassin's Creed games, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted". In the game's narrative they apply this to their goal, a free world without tyrants. I apply it to my goal, being happy.

I went from waiting to die to wanting to live forever just to see what kind of stupid stuff happens to our species.

I'm telling you dude, the Buddhists got it half figured out. You just need to take Buddhism and smash it together with Hedonism and you have a pretty workable way of living.

[Liquid-Flame DK]

It's hard for me to convey emotion through writing as my writing comes off as clinical and dry at times, but I can tell you I am honestly finally happy in my life. I'm getting back together with my ex-wife, I have friends and family around me who care for me and I care for them.

I just had this epiphany that the world wasn't worth being upset over anymore. I mean, think about it. Think how small the earth is in the grand scheme of the universe. It's the equivalent of getting upset about a dust mote. No matter what happens on this planet, the universe is just going to keep doing what it does. Our petty differences, our countries, or religions... worthless. Utterly worthless and so small and insignificant. I kind of asked myself "What would I do if the world was perfect" and I came up with the answer "play videogames and ingest intoxicants".

I started looking at certain social norms from a non anthropocentric view. I broke down certain rules by their universal logic instead of a human or earth centric viewpoint.

Oddly enough, what I came to was a little mantra that was repeated in the Assassin's Creed games, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted". In the game's narrative they apply this to their goal, a free world without tyrants. I apply it to my goal, being happy.

I went from waiting to die to wanting to live forever just to see what kind of stupid stuff happens to our species.

I'm telling you dude, the Buddhists got it half figured out. You just need to take Buddhism and smash it together with Hedonism and you have a pretty workable way of living.

So, you're a nihilist?