Degrading Weapons

[H3adCas3z]

Curious to know if degrading weapons appeals to anyone?

Meaning the longer you use it the more the aim gets thrown off, the reload takes a little longer or the gun jams resulting in an even longer reload time.
Shovebacks also incur some level of damage to the weapon.

In the end forcing the player to abandon their weapon in search of a new one.

....just spitballin' here.

[Euclix]

Curious to know if degrading weapons appeals to anyone?

Meaning the longer you use it the more the aim gets thrown off, the reload takes a little longer or the gun jams resulting in an even longer reload time.
Shovebacks also incur some level of damage to the weapon.

In the end forcing the player to abandon their weapon in search of a new one.

....just spitballin' here.

I like the idea of forcing players to change weapons. I think a much easier and better solution would be to remove all ammo piles.

[Jonny5300394]

I'm not sure this is the answer. But I do agree that players need more incentive to constantly look for a new weapon, even trading out their tier 2 for a non silenced SMG.

One thing that would help would not having ammo every time there is a weapon. You get your hands on a T2 and you never switch because every time you find a T1 one weapon there is an ammo pile right next to it.

Maybe the weapons take little damage from use, and much more from being pounced on, ECT. Leave the melee weapons indestructible as back ups in case your main weapon breaks.

EDIT: Dang it Euclix. You beat me!

[madara]

Just let people play the way they want, god...

[H3adCas3z]

Just let people play the way they want, god...

Can you elaborate, please?

Do you mean staying with the same gun the entire map? Which is fine.

We're just discussing something that might add another dimension to the game.

[H3adCas3z]

Suck my ♥♥♥♥ :mad::mad::mad:

Sad, just sad. I'm sorry you cannot provide quality ideas to this discussion or use that gutter mouth for something more creative or collaborative.:(

[Bindal]

It would finally give us a reason to have the FLOOD of weapons in the maps. Yet, there is one problem with the idea:
Weapons don't break in MINUTES, but in WEEKS to MONTH. Or even years, if you're constantly cleaning and fixing them.

Plus, it would be VERY frustating. Even other games, where weapons can take damage, it takes sometimes half the game until you finally have problems (e.g. Stalker, you can use the same gun for roughly three hours straight until it's jammed for the first time). And those games have one thing in common: They are all singleplayer. And they are only SP for a reason.

[H3adCas3z]

It would finally give us a reason to have the FLOOD of weapons in the maps. Yet, there is one problem with the idea:
Weapons don't break in MINUTES, but in WEEKS to MONTH. Or even years, if you're constantly cleaning and fixing them.

Plus, it would be VERY frustating. Even other games, where weapons can take damage, it takes sometimes half the game until you finally have problems (e.g. Stalker, you can use the same gun for roughly three hours straight until it's jammed for the first time). And those games have one thing in common: They are all singleplayer. And they are only SP for a reason.

I agree with this. It was definitely on my mind as I posted.

Curses...foiled again! :)

[Peegee]

Removing ammo piles is an excellent idea!

[Panzerjager1943]

Removing ammo piles in the map, or reducing the amount of ammunition able to be carried with Tier 2 weapons would also do the job. In terms of weapon reliability breaking down, merely reducing ammunition yields the same 'end result', without needing any new code for handling slower reloads or creating new animations for clearing various jams.

[gatherto]

but... but... i LIKE my laser sight ak

[H3adCas3z]

but... but... i LIKE my laser sight ak

HAHAHA!! :D

[Aelok]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:

[Bindal]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:
Funfact - accoring to some files within the game, it was not even PLANNED at one point that weapons could break, some even have their "break"-soundfile still inside. Three or four of them only (I think, the axe, the frying pan and the cricket bat) but it just means that Valve had the idea and then just decided to cut it for some reason.

[Lulzfish]

No. Left 4 Dead 2 is fine without having to worry about random factors like gun jamming and degradation. It's very annoying for a player to deal with something unrelated to his skills like that.

The idea of actually using the notoriously ♥♥♥♥ty SMGs is interesting. Maybe if they had unrealistic silencing it would help.

No matter what gun I use, even the pistols with my flashlight off, as soon I start shooting, I draw all the wandering zombies in instantly. So I just don't ♥♥♥♥ with the silenced SMG, because firepower is better than some "informed" stealthing ability that doesn't seem to do jack♥♥♥♥.

[Jonny5300394]

It would finally give us a reason to have the FLOOD of weapons in the maps. Yet, there is one problem with the idea:
Weapons don't break in MINUTES, but in WEEKS to MONTH. Or even years, if you're constantly cleaning and fixing them.

Plus, it would be VERY frustating. Even other games, where weapons can take damage, it takes sometimes half the game until you finally have problems (e.g. Stalker, you can use the same gun for roughly three hours straight until it's jammed for the first time). And those games have one thing in common: They are all singleplayer. And they are only SP for a reason.

Yes but two things: A) The survivors are not constantly cleaning and fixing them. They're are picking them off the street and what happened to them previously is who knows what, and B) They are getting mobbed by zombies who scratch, bite, and crush them. Their guns would take damage.

I'm also not saying the game should have random guns jams or breaks. Just that the guns should break. Have a health bar, ect.

[Aelok]

Yes but two things: A) The survivors are not constantly cleaning and fixing them. They're are picking them off the street and what happened to them previously is who knows what, and B) They are getting mobbed by zombies who scratch, bite, and crush them. Their guns would take damage.

I'm also not saying the game should have random guns jams or breaks. Just that the guns should break. Have a health bar, ect.

You got a good point, most guns in the game aren't exactly brand new.
T2 weapons and all guns found at the gunshop I'd say are pretty good condition (guns dropped by soldiers i'd consider to be in 'new'), but other guns you find are likely to be older and potentially poorly maintained.

I don't think a zombie could do any damage to a gun, nor would they try. They aren't smart enough to bust into a gun shop and think "Hey, those guys are going to blow our asses away with all these guys! Someone get a spitter in here to sabotage them!"

Far Cry 2 had a random gun jam mechanic that increased in occurrence based off the gun's condition. It turned out to serve little purpose other than to just annoy the ♥♥♥♥ out of the player lol.

[Voyager II]

Just make guns finite like melee weapons. Can only be picked once.

[soulripper]

how about a tactical decision t2 has less ammo then normal and t1 has plenty so trading firepower for long term use

[BuckALE]

imo - This is an action game, not a tactical simulator or role playing game.

It's unnecessary added complexity which just works against L4D's relatively fast paced frantic action style.

[TheCombatMedic]

imo - This is an action game, not a tactical simulator or role playing game.

It's unnecessary added complexity which just works against L4D's relatively fast paced frantic action style.


This. Left 4 Dead is supposed to be fast paced and simple. Adding randomness like broken melee weapons or guns randomly jamming will just frustrate people because it's something they have no control over.

[Buick72]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:

But I love my dual pistols!

Yup, as long as the desert eagle and melee weapons are so powerful, a lot of people will keep using them as primaries. I wouldn't mind if melee weapons broke or degraded, but then again I rarely use them.

[Jonny5300394]

You got a good point, most guns in the game aren't exactly brand new.
T2 weapons and all guns found at the gunshop I'd say are pretty good condition (guns dropped by soldiers i'd consider to be in 'new'), but other guns you find are likely to be older and potentially poorly maintained.

I don't think a zombie could do any damage to a gun, nor would they try. They aren't smart enough to bust into a gun shop and think "Hey, those guys are going to blow our asses away with all these guys! Someone get a spitter in here to sabotage them!"

Far Cry 2 had a random gun jam mechanic that increased in occurrence based off the gun's condition. It turned out to serve little purpose other than to just annoy the ♥♥♥♥ out of the player lol.

Haha! I don't think I'll be getting far cry then!

I know zombies wouldn't think to hurt the guns. I was just saying that they would damage them accidently. Like how your guys holds onto a gun while being crushed by a charger.

[RugbyOddjob]

TBH this would be acceptable in an RPG or SP type game but L4D and L4D2 are not that type of game.

Good idea but not for this game methinks ;)

[Bindal]

Haha! I don't think I'll be getting far cry then!

I know zombies wouldn't think to hurt the guns. I was just saying that they would damage them accidently. Like how your guys holds onto a gun while being crushed by a charger.
"Damage by accident" is even less likely do even do something, which goes beyond scraches on the surface. The only two SI, which would acutally HAVE the power to do more would be the Charger and the Tank - and those act currently simply in a way that the survivors take almost everything of said power while the weapons get just ignored by them.

[Krandel]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:

Really?

In all of my hours of playing L4D2, I've only seen a few people use Melee weapons as primary.

[Aelok]

Really?

In all of my hours of playing L4D2, I've only seen a few people use Melee weapons as primary.

Pub more :(

[Voyager II]

melee only is sure as hell doable

you can cut tongues, 1shot chargers and heckle tanks.

fun.

[Euclix]

I remember playing the Iron man mutation. It was realism campaign where you could not restart at all, if you died, it returned you to the lobby. All that did was make realism more annoying.

The only other change was there were no ammo piles, which was pretty cool and it accomplished the goal of having to take different weapons. You still had plenty of options to pick weapons that you liked.

[H3adCas3z]

I'm liking the idea of much fewer ammo piles or the removal there of.

It would then force the player to learn how to conserve their ammo rounds, or at least have them consider it and not just unload an entire clip into 3 infected.

[Optics233]

Just let people play the way they want, god...

Troll alert.

[epilimic]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:

Wait, so its wrong of me to run through maps melee only? Does this also mean that once somebody gets the achievement for beating a campaign with melee only, they have finally attained "newb" status?

[Threesixtyci]

I like the idea of forcing players to change weapons. I think a much easier and better solution would be to remove all ammo piles.

What's ironic is that in the commentary they talk about not having ammo piles anywhere, but the finales, and about wanting the Gamer to change weapons. And then you play the game, and there is no instance of having to do that, because there are ammo cache's everywhere...


Says it at about 3:25 in. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxJF1cN-7c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL) And while it says it what do you see? An ammo pile....

[Krandel]

Pub more :(

That explains a lot.

I almost never pub, so that can explain why I haven't seen anyone use Melees as Primary.

[prophecy holder]

Just let people play the way they want, god...

I am now going to use my speedhacks and aimbot undetectable by VAC.

See what I did dar?

[The Hop Goblin]

Oh, an M16. *Picks it up*
*holds down trigger and runs forward on map*
*Encounters Ammo pile/T2 weapon before ammo runs out*

[madara]

I am now going to use my speedhacks and aimbot undetectable by VAC.

See what I did dar?

uhm who cares? you will get kicked in no more than a min from every match

[Jonny5300394]

"Damage by accident" is even less likely do even do something, which goes beyond scraches on the surface. The only two SI, which would acutally HAVE the power to do more would be the Charger and the Tank - and those act currently simply in a way that the survivors take almost everything of said power while the weapons get just ignored by them.

Eh this is true.

Truly I don't care the method. I just want more reason to panic when I have to pick up a SMG during a horde. I would love to up the difficulty in verses but... The zombie damage out put. And give them more health.

[SonikFan]

In general, no.
For melee weapons, yes.

Melee weapons are a situational weapon, and this would help teach newbs that secondary weapon slots are not primary weapons :rolleyes:

I think you guys overestimate melee weapons to hell and back. But eh.

Anyways, I don't really like this. It would result in frustration if your gun jammed while trying to kill that Smoker or Charger. I would expect a 4%~ increase in rages from that.

[SonikFan]

Oh, an M16. *Picks it up*
*holds down trigger and runs forward on map*
*Encounters Ammo pile/T2 weapon before ammo runs out*

...Eh, no. I've played multiple times where I'm not checking my ammo and I'm constantly running out of it. So that's just exaggerating.

[SonikFan]

melee only is sure as hell doable

you can cut tongues, 1shot chargers and heckle tanks.

fun.

I think your forgetting you have to be VERY specific with cutting tongues; you have to swing JUST as the tongue is about to get you and you can only do it with the Fire Axe, Katana, Machete and Chainsaw. Sure, Chainsaw can cut it at any time, but it has many other drawbacks.

[Orade]

I like the idea of forcing players to change weapons. I think a much easier and better solution would be to remove all ammo piles.

The iron man mutation was by far the best I think. I loved the change taking out ammo piles made to the game.

[Ren Partycat]

Eh, I'd rather have ammo piles removed/reduced rather than degrading weapons.

If ammo piles has much less ammo, then it would help you conserve ammo more, and help survivors give priority over others when taking ammo.

[BuckALE]

I think your forgetting you have to be VERY specific with cutting tongues; you have to swing JUST as the tongue is about to get you and you can only do it with the Fire Axe, Katana, Machete and Chainsaw. Sure, Chainsaw can cut it at any time, but it has many other drawbacks.

gotta aim just right to level a charger too.

But, you know, they can't tell us those things. It pokes ALL sorts of holes into the whole "OMG MALAY SEW OP!" arguement.


Disclaimer - this is not a call to arms, just a snark. so yeah, dont bother trying to resurrect that whole arguement in here, mkay?

[SonikFan]

gotta aim just right to level a charger too.

But, you know, they can't tell us those things. It pokes ALL sorts of holes into the whole "OMG MALAY SEW OP!" arguement.


Disclaimer - this is not a call to arms, just a snark. so yeah, dont bother trying to resurrect that whole arguement in here, mkay?

I'm not trying to, it just jarates (yes, I wrote jarate instead of the other word) me off that people keep complaining about this. Kinda like "OMG VANNLA VERSES SEW NEWB!"

[BuckALE]

I'm not trying to, it just jarates (yes, I wrote jarate instead of the other word) me off that people keep complaining about this. Kinda like "OMG VANNLA VERSES SEW NEWB!"

We can respond to both with "OMG LET PPL PLAY HOW DEY WANT!"

[HolisticCookie]

Curious to know if degrading weapons appeals to anyone?

Meaning the longer you use it the more the aim gets thrown off, the reload takes a little longer or the gun jams resulting in an even longer reload time.
Shovebacks also incur some level of damage to the weapon.

In the end forcing the player to abandon their weapon in search of a new one.

....just spitballin' here.

Well, gun jams would be interesting for sure. I'm for getting rid of ammo piles AND reducing the amount of carried ammo.

[bl4ckrider]

imo - This is an action game, not a tactical simulator or role playing game.

It's unnecessary added complexity which just works against L4D's relatively fast paced frantic action style.

This.

If you have a health bar for weapons I also want a bladder bar that shows when you have to find a private corner to pass water or take a dumb.

[H3adCas3z]

This.

If you have a health bar for weapons I also want a bladder bar that shows when you have to find a private corner to pass water or take a dumb.

Nah.. then they would need to add a new line for Coach to yell out " bathroom HERE!!"