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View Full Version : Why Bother With VAC?


EnemyLinez3
02-21-2011, 02:35 PM
Think about it. It's brilliant for cheaters because they can cheat for at least 2 weeks / 3 months or more if it's undetected. 95% of the cheaters out there aren't hackers, they simply download it and use it.

The 5% - probably less make and code the hack. The delayed banning is only bad for these guys here. But I'm sure if they're the the one's making the hack they have experience in how to not get caught so most likey this delayed banning is not effective here.

It's bad for players because the cheaters can run rampant unless they are banned by an admin.

It's bad for server owners because they have to make decisions on players whether they are cheating or not, and sometimes don't always get it right.

I think instant banning would be much more effective on hackers. It would be much more deterrent for hackers and cheaters as as soon as they open that hack they know they could be banned within seconds - money down the drain instantly for them.

Does nobody else agree? I know "It's to confuse the creators muhahaha" and "ban more at once" but in the mean time (a long time) they are ruining games!

edit: About the title - I do appreciate we have some anti-cheat in the games but I don't think it makes a major difference. I have about 15 hackers in my blocked list, one has recieved a VAC ban, the rest are still playing...

0ddity
02-21-2011, 02:38 PM
VAC isn't a system to prevent cheating, its a system to punish cheaters. The first line of defense in preventing cheaters is responsible server admins that do their jobs. The second line of defense is the punishment meted out by VAC to those that decide to cheat anyway.

PhamousVegas
02-21-2011, 02:45 PM
It doesn't hurt anything, so why not?

EnemyLinez3
02-21-2011, 03:04 PM
It doesn't hurt anything, so why not?

Some may argue it doesn't do anything either ;)

TheBogStandardU
02-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Some may argue it doesn't do anything either ;)

The fact that the VAC sub-forum is filled with "it wasn't my fault, unban me, waaaahh" threads every day says otherwise.

PhamousVegas
02-21-2011, 03:13 PM
The fact that the VAC sub-forum is filled with "it wasn't my fault, unban me, waaaahh" threads every day says otherwise.

Mate, obviously all that proves is VAC has too many false positives.
Because a cheater would NEVER come on the forums and lie.

/sarcasm
Anyway, it does work from what I can tell... I rarely see cheaters in Source Engine games.
And I have yet to see any cheaters in Black Ops.
MW2 is filled with them, but that isn't a fault of VAC.

aboveyou
02-21-2011, 03:18 PM
mw2 is not full of cheaters, it is full of noobs who don't have headsets/do not understand that the sound they make as they move around is very easy to track...

Each day I have played over 5 hours of MW2, and I do not see cheaters daily... If I see a cheater, I know it's the only one I will see the whole day...

There are a few cheaters who have yet to be banned, despite being reported by me and blocked by me over a year ago, though. They copy people's names to make them look bad, including my name.

PhamousVegas
02-21-2011, 03:37 PM
mw2 is not full of cheaters

This comment made my lifetime.
I am printing out a screenshot of it and putting it on my wall.

Thanks!

EnemyLinez3
02-21-2011, 03:41 PM
This comment made my lifetime.
I am printing out a screenshot of it and putting it on my wall.

Thanks!

Have some Rep :D

L.o.D.
02-21-2011, 04:51 PM
Some may argue it doesn't do anything either ;)

And yet it has more bans than PB does.
Imagine that.


But this has been discussed so much the horse is now a pile of dust.
VAC was never made to replace server admins. Keep that in mind.

hataddict
02-21-2011, 07:42 PM
This comment made my lifetime.
I am printing out a screenshot of it and putting it on my wall.

Thanks!

hhaha ithink i will too xD

themires
02-21-2011, 07:53 PM
And yet it has more bans than PB does.
Imagine that.



not sure that is true sence they dont tell you how many has been banned.. right.. we just dont know that do we. we dont

PhamousVegas
02-21-2011, 09:23 PM
not sure that is true sence they dont tell you how many has been banned.. right.. we just dont know that do we. we dont

Punkbuster - 198,237 ban(s)
http://www.pbbans.com/mbi.php

VAC - 438,266
http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics

FailSquad69
02-21-2011, 09:41 PM
VAC isn't a system to prevent cheating, its a system to punish cheaters. The first line of defense in preventing cheaters is responsible server admins that do their jobs. The second line of defense is the punishment meted out by VAC to those that decide to cheat anyway.

it should prevent cheating. not all games have admins. there should be a prevention system as well.

Gone'Postal
02-21-2011, 10:28 PM
it should prevent cheating. not all games have admins. there should be a prevention system as well.

No.

Don't prevent someone from taking an action and making a choice, just punish them when they do if it's the wrong one.

Also, the only game VAC protected without admins is MW2 and it's already posted.. there are very little cheaters in MW2 :rolleyes:

Zefar
02-21-2011, 10:47 PM
2 weeks to 3 months before being banned? :/

It's most likely much shorter than that.

You see when VAC did those 12 000 bans on people for a DLL file that Steam forgot to update it banned users the next day after they played the game. Or just the next day after that.

It did this on most of the people who got banned by that as well.

So the only reason someone would not be banned is because VAC doesn't have that cheat. But then it's only a matter of time before it gets it.
There is a reason why this section is filled with threads of people complaining about their bans. Most which are most likely cheaters who're downright lying about their case.

VAC hurts them THAT much. :D

xX_Renegade_Xx
02-22-2011, 12:07 AM
I think instant banning would be much more effective on hackers. It would be much more deterrent for hackers and cheaters as as soon as they open that hack they know they could be banned within seconds - money down the drain instantly for them.

That's why I like PB, other players on the server can see instantly, especially on live streaming servers, when a cheater has been removed from the server, that sends out a good message.

VAC does catch more cheaters with the delayed bans and I like the fact that it is working in the background but if I had a choice between the two I would pick PB every time.

I've not had any major problems with PB (although others have from what I've read) and any that I have had are quickly resolved on the anti-cheat sites.

I'd like to see the anti-cheat sites target the people that put these cheats into circulation, the only drawback is for everyone they shut down you can guarantee another ten would start up.

Drag0nZorD!
02-22-2011, 12:56 AM
i also love vac because vac is for steam games. if you get banned from a steam game you have to rebuy that game for full steam price to play it again.

if you get banned from bf2 you just buy a new cd key for 5 bucks from someguy who stole it from walmart.

PhamousVegas
02-22-2011, 01:11 AM
i also love vac because vac is for steam games. if you get banned from a steam game you have to rebuy that game for full steam price to play it again.

if you get banned from bf2 you just buy a new cd key for 5 bucks from someguy who stole it from walmart.

You should say "valve game".
Black Ops and MW2 are Steam Games and you can buy a new CD Key for 5 bucks from some guy who stole them from Walmart too. :P

Drag0nZorD!
02-22-2011, 01:12 AM
You should say "valve game".
Black Ops and MW2 are Steam Games and you can buy a new CD Key for 5 bucks from some guy who stole them from Walmart too. :P

freakin call of duty, ruining everything.

PhamousVegas
02-22-2011, 01:21 AM
freakin call of duty, ruining everything.

It'll be like that in Brink and Homefront as well.
Any Steam-VAC game that is sold retail can be obtained that way.

There's really no way of stopping it, except making it Steam Download-Only.

White_Chocolate
02-22-2011, 04:26 AM
i also love vac because vac is for steam games. if you get banned from a steam game you have to rebuy that game for full steam price to play it again.

if you get banned from bf2 you just buy a new cd key for 5 bucks from someguy who stole it from walmart.

Don't forget VAC bans you from the game you cheated in AND every game that use that games engine. Get banned from one Source engine game, get banned from ALL Source engine games.

Gone'Postal
02-22-2011, 04:31 AM
Don't forget VAC bans you from the game you cheated in AND every game that use that games engine. Get banned from one Source engine game, get banned from ALL Source engine games.

as well as having that account listed as cheated on which is a big thing for some people...

L.o.D.
02-22-2011, 04:51 AM
not sure that is true sence they dont tell you how many has been banned.. right.. we just dont know that do we. we dont

While it is true that Valve doesn't release such info, it is easy enough to get it by looking at vacbanned.com which checks steam community profiles for VAC bans on record.
As you can see in the links posted for you earlier, VAC has a lot more bans compared to PB.
Also keep in mind that PB's bans are mostly from PBbans or punkbusted instead of the actual PB itself.

a7m1
02-22-2011, 06:56 AM
Punkbuster - 198,237 ban(s)
http://www.pbbans.com/mbi.php

VAC - 438,266
http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics


the punkbuster stand alone does'nt ban permenantly for cheats
it only kicks for 0-2 minutes after few seconds of cheating

the bans done by some websites that have large database for cheated guids that either got auto kicked for cheating violation
or have submited an demo proves that they are hacked
yet human judgement can't get trusted 100 %
also it can be missused somehow since it's profit free organizations

Also the listed site
vacbanned.com
is unofficial and does'nt auto scan steam profiles or each created profile
users must submit profiles links or steam ids in order to get checked and to be checked

a7m1
02-22-2011, 06:58 AM
While it is true that Valve doesn't release such info, it is easy enough to get it by looking at vacbanned.com which checks steam community profiles for VAC bans on record.
As you can see in the links posted for you earlier, VAC has a lot more bans compared to PB.
Also keep in mind that PB's bans are mostly from PBbans or punkbusted instead of the actual PB itself.

vacbanned.com does'nt auto scans the whole steam community it simply can't :)

users must submit profiles links or steam ids to get them checked or to be checked

therefore the banned profiles is much more

PhamousVegas
02-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Also the listed site
vacbanned.com
is unofficial and does'nt auto scan steam profiles or each created profile
users must submit profiles links or steam ids in order to get checked and to be checked

Yep, no ♥♥♥♥.
But if anything that means there are MORE bans that aren't counted, and the number is STILL higher than PB.

_Budweiser_
02-22-2011, 03:57 PM
Punkbuster - 198,237 ban(s)
http://www.pbbans.com/mbi.php

VAC - 438,266
http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics

Really, you can't do a direct comparison, it's statistical nonsense.

How many games ad gameservers are secured by VAC and PB?
How long have they been in operation?
How many players in total have played those games/on those servers?
How many cheats are available, and how easily obtainable are they for the games?
How many cheats are available and how obtainable are they that work around VAC / PB?
How many bans are due to hacked accounts for either PB/VAC?
Do cheaters prefer to play on certain games/servers than others?
Do cheaters prefer to play games protected by VAC or PB?
How many accounts does each player have, and are all of these banned?

Without knowing the above details, just posting the number of bans is meaningless. There are numerous factors to consider for any comparison purpose.

--

edit - also, I'm not sure VACbanned.com is an actual record of those with bans on record from VAC.

L.o.D.
02-22-2011, 04:59 PM
edit - also, I'm not sure VACbanned.com is an actual record of those with bans on record from VAC.

How would it not be when the profiles are checked for VAC bans on record?

_Budweiser_
02-22-2011, 05:19 PM
Because it does not scan the entirety of the steam account database, and certainly wouldn't be able to do so very quickly.

It relies on individual, specific checks. This is evidenced by the prominent statement at the head of the vacbanned.com page:

"Upon putting an example in the search area, the information is checked to see if the account is VAC banned. If banned and not in the list, it is automatically added."

So unless a specific account has been searched, it's possible that there has been no query and it doesn't appear on the list.

Also, since the VAC delayed bans do not take effect instantly,. the notification mark on the Steam profile is also delayed. Vacbanned.com has no way of displaying those with bans flagged by VAC that are not yet effective.

L.o.D.
02-22-2011, 05:34 PM
We know it doesn't scan the entire DB.

But by saying what is listed is not an actual record, sounds like it's not accurate info etc. It is an actual record when each profile is checked for the ban status. You cannot get more actual than that.
Either way, VAC still blows away PB for total bans.

_Budweiser_
02-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Either way, VAC still blows away PB for total bans.

I already pointed out that such use of numbers is utterly meaningless and statistical nonsense.
Results in this manner can be used (and frequently are by marketeers and politicians) to show almost anything you want, regardless of the actuality.



To enforce my point, consider this statement:

"A prison has 89% black inmates"

One person says "This proves most criminals are black"
Another disagree, saying "It shows the police/judicial system must be racist"
A third person takes another leap of conjecture, claiming "It's because they're poorer, are oppressed by the state and racism preventing them from getting good jobs, so have to resort to crime."














All of which are completely unture.
----------------

Really, it's just that the prison is situated in Nairobi, where there is a higher population of blacks.