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Goggalor
02-21-2011, 09:05 PM
So I get to the part where I finally face grimnar and his mind battles. The difficulty just went from fun to facedesk. It's bad enough that you get tossed off the islands 90% of the time you spawn, but having to be reset back to the very beginning is just ♥♥♥♥ing infuriating. I've really enjoyed the game so far, but now I just want to give the devs a big ♥♥♥♥ you! for making a near impossible level.

Curseman
02-21-2011, 09:06 PM
Every enemy you fight in that section except ents can be knocked of the cliff for a really easy instant kill.

Xaveri
02-21-2011, 09:18 PM
It's not very well designed but you'll get it eventually. I played it with a friend online and it was even worse, whenever one of us died and the other killed all the mobs, the screen would shift but then the dead one would resurrect in the previous island, just bad bad design. Keep at it, you'll get it.

Goggalor
02-21-2011, 09:20 PM
Every enemy you fight in that section except ents can be knocked of the cliff for a really easy instant kill.
What spell are you using to knock them off?

Res_
02-21-2011, 09:25 PM
I'll tell you the easiest way to beat that part.... in fact I'll tell you the easiest way to beat 100% of the game....

----------------------------------------------------------------

1) Use bubble shield (E + shift + M2)

2) Then cast healing mines about 8 times in a row (this will heal your shield bubble to full and then some, actual health of the bubble goes beyond the bar. (healing mines is ( EW + shift + M2 )

3) Use QRRASE + shift + M1. This will imbue your sword with a powerful attack that goes straight out from your sword.

4) Go to the inside edge of your bubble and cast it, it will go thru the bubble and hit the enemies.

5) Later in chapter 11 when you have enemies that teleport into your shield, cast fear and do an AOE damage spell inside bubble to kill them.

Being able to heal your bubble shield beyond what the bar shows AND in conjunction of being able to cast damage spells thru it, is RIDICULOUSLY game breaking.

Goggalor
02-21-2011, 09:33 PM
ok, so how do I cast bubble shield, healing mines, etc...

Res_
02-21-2011, 09:41 PM
ok, so how do I cast bubble shield, healing mines, etc...


edited it with the keys.

Stringbean
02-21-2011, 09:52 PM
Use water spells to push guys off the edges:

Queue up a few water charges, then shift+M2 to AoE water blast everything away from you. (Follow up with ice AoE if you want to freeze everything in range)

Water+Arcane -> Water beam that blasts guys away like a fire hose.

Xinhuan
02-21-2011, 10:01 PM
Just use QQQQQ+Shift right click on every enemy on all those islands during the mind battle. Except maybe the last island since there's only 1 enemy. This might help too:

http://www.magickapedia.net/wiki/Chapter_Six#Area_4_-_Grimnir.27s_mind

Curseman
02-21-2011, 10:16 PM
What spell are you using to knock them off?

QQQQQ right click and QQQQQ shift right click mostly.

ok, so how do I cast bubble shield, healing mines, etc...

Don't use the bubble shield/healing mines exploit. It ruins the game.

mystrdat
02-21-2011, 10:17 PM
Just use QQQQQ+Shift right click on every enemy on all those islands during the mind battle. Except maybe the last island since there's only 1 enemy. This might help too:

http://www.magickapedia.net/wiki/Chapter_Six#Area_4_-_Grimnir.27s_mind

Pretty much this is the best solution to your problem. Realizing that water has a major knockback effect makes the difference.

ShadowMystic
02-21-2011, 10:56 PM
Use QQQQD then toss it into the middle of the enemies. The go flying off the edge in a few shots.

Goggalor
02-21-2011, 11:12 PM
Damn, finally passed it using arcane mines. That was some seriously flawed game design.

Xinhuan
02-21-2011, 11:20 PM
It's not flawed game design. The game design encourages players to explore different spells and tactics.

Some spells are more effective than others, and then some more.

Every boss in the game has at least one trick to it, its a matter of whether you can find it or think up the appropriate spell. We are wizards.

SpecialKLSX
02-22-2011, 02:48 AM
Damn, finally passed it using arcane mines. That was some seriously flawed game design.


That and a simple shield was what I used on the first island because the goblin shamen gave me fits when they quad cast lightning together on me in a rather reliable manner (Round one fight! *Quad Lighting!* Bathrobe Hero Looses, IDB with no lube!)

Isle 2? Personal shield, haste and airblast first druid off the side. Second one by then casts rain so I freeze beam him.


3rd one I used a sword shield so I could bide time and let the warlocks have their little spellcasting spazfest initially then I poked around the side and hosed them down the froze em to the ground.

4th with the zombie mages I just dried myself off and went all sith lord on their butts.

5th with the goblin wizards was easy peasy, just rush in and blow em off the side.

6th I just FIRED MAH LAZOR!

Now the fight with Grimnir had me stumped for a while till I remembered I had nullify. I just cast that between LAZOR blasts when I needed to.

Zeargo
02-22-2011, 03:23 AM
So I get to the part where I finally face grimnar and his mind battles. The difficulty just went from fun to facedesk. It's bad enough that you get tossed off the islands 90% of the time you spawn, but having to be reset back to the very beginning is just ♥♥♥♥ing infuriating. I've really enjoyed the game so far, but now I just want to give the devs a big ♥♥♥♥ you! for making a near impossible level.

I find it easier to use beam and area spells to get past this part.

Island 1: 3 left ones are quite close for an area spell. Go a little left and cast QFASSS + Shift for an area spell to knock them out. 1 of the 3 may survive by either teleporting or moving but that one and the last one shouldn't be hard afterwards.

Island 2: The enemies on the previous island will go through an animation before dying. During this time, use a shield (E) on yourself and prepare a beam spell (QFQFAAS or QFASSS). When you jump island, cast it on the enemies until the rain appears. Move to a safe location, use Nullify to get rid of the rain and heal yourself (or if you no longer have the shield, use a shield (E) on yourself). Make sure aim for the spellcasters. When both are dead, you'll jump to the next island. It isn't necessary to kill the tree summons

Island 3: If you have no shield at any point during the warlocs, place on yourself quickly. These enemies as you'll know from the previous levels will use beam spells alot. Stay on the right near the wall. If they have shields on, use an area spell (like QFAS + Shift) to remove it quickly.

After the warlocs, the next islands of enemies I found are not that hard. Its just those first islands I worry at. If your wondering, just shield yourself and use beam spells to get past them. Make sure your not WET when you press A at the necromancers, theres water on that island.

mystrdat
02-22-2011, 07:59 AM
That was some seriously flawed game design.

No room for "it could have just been my lack of learning the magic system properly"?

tomtailby
02-22-2011, 09:02 AM
So I get to the part where I finally face grimnar and his mind battles. The difficulty just went from fun to facedesk. It's bad enough that you get tossed off the islands 90% of the time you spawn, but having to be reset back to the very beginning is just ♥♥♥♥ing infuriating. I've really enjoyed the game so far, but now I just want to give the devs a big ♥♥♥♥ you! for making a near impossible level.

It's not near impossible, me and 2 friends bought the game yesterday and have done this a couple times. I hate to say l2p but to be honest it sounds like you havent tried adapting your playstyle at all...stop whining about something you can't do, because you can't doesn't make it near impossible.

eggrock
02-22-2011, 10:37 AM
If you think the mind fight is bad wait until the boss fight in the dead lands. Talk about maddening. Then, when you beat that, the next level rewards you with monsters that can (essentially) instagib you.

Ugh.

davez0r1
02-22-2011, 10:53 AM
If you think the mind fight is bad wait until the boss fight in the dead lands. Talk about maddening. Then, when you beat that, the next level rewards you with monsters that can (essentially) instagib you.

Ugh.

god yeah... death was a fun solo fight if you didnt try to beat him with healcheese too quickly. and those yetis, oh bajesus. I find usually all you can do is set yourself on fire or teleport when one is about to grab you. though a frost barrier and a water spray helps quite a lot for keeping em still long enough to kill em

Xinhuan
02-22-2011, 12:34 PM
Tip: The easiest way to kill the snow trolls in Chapter 11... is to cast Charm on them. That's right! W-E-D-Space and they stop right in their tracks for a full 15 seconds and do nothing (unless there's something nearby for it to attack).

Then, you basically can take up to 15 seconds to kill a stationary snow troll in any manner you like. Works on the Beholders and Dwarf Priests too. And on Vlad. Unfortunately, I didn't see if Grimnir or Assatur or Death is immune to it.

Oh and Snow Trolls can't grab each other and insta-gib each other to death. :(

PS_
02-22-2011, 01:43 PM
Damn, finally passed it using arcane mines. That was some seriously flawed game design.

My dear Goggalor.

You call the very essence of the game a flaw. I wish there was a dynamic balancing system built in. Making every spell used more then, say three times i a row, useless for the next 200 spells or so ... Thus forcing the player to be more innovative and not just run through blasting everything to pieces with a few powerful combos.

But that's just me ...

/PS_

XEshamX
02-22-2011, 01:56 PM
I did it the hard way. Just grab the goblin shamans staff with the emergency teleport and its pretty easy to teleport out of the ring outs.

Curseman
02-22-2011, 03:23 PM
I like how whenever someone around here loses in Magicka, they blame the game, even though it gives you more than enough power to beat everything it throws at you.

davez0r1
02-22-2011, 03:35 PM
well that is what forums are for curseman, for people to whine, complain, and then bicker amongst themselves :P

eggrock
02-22-2011, 03:57 PM
It's not flawed game design. The game design encourages players to explore different spells and tactics.

I agree with you about about the OP's frustration, but this is a major flaw in the implementation of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0adByvDSQc

Fafnir is busy kicking my butt and causing rage, but it's the inability to skip the intro that has me boiling, not the learning curve of combat.

Goggalor
02-22-2011, 05:06 PM
Ok, let me explain why I said it was a flawed game design. I have no problem with being able to be blown off cliffs, or blow enemies off cliffs as part of the game play, but there is no first exposure to the player to teach them "Oh, this is a game mechanic I need to learn/watch out for."

If there was a level, such as a long bridge, where we were exposed to game mechanic so we can learn to deal with, and then give us a level where we are constantly bombarded by multiple enemies with the mechanic, then it would not be nearly as frustrating.

Res_
02-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Ok, let me explain why I said it was a flawed game design. I have no problem with being able to be blown off cliffs, or blow enemies off cliffs as part of the game play, but there is no first exposure to the player to teach them "Oh, this is a game mechanic I need to learn/watch out for."

If there was a level, such as a long bridge, where we were exposed to game mechanic so we can learn to deal with, and then give us a level where we are constantly bombarded by multiple enemies with the mechanic, then it would not be nearly as frustrating.

I guess a lot of us are quicker at adapting to a given situation. I had no exposure at all to that either and passed it easily on the 2nd try.

Nixitur
02-22-2011, 06:33 PM
Ok, let me explain why I said it was a flawed game design. I have no problem with being able to be blown off cliffs, or blow enemies off cliffs as part of the game play, but there is no first exposure to the player to teach them "Oh, this is a game mechanic I need to learn/watch out for."
If only there was an entire level before that fight that has floating islands, stairs and dangerous enemies everywhere...
OH, WAIT!

Xinhuan
02-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Actually there are.

In Chapter 2 and 3, you were exposed to Goblin Bombers. Those bombs can knock you into the river and drown (south of Gram's workshop), and knock you off the airship battle (before Dunderhaed).

Similarly, you could have knocked goblins into the water or off the airship in the very same battles (yes they drown in water too). Right before/after the airship battle, the southern cliffs were also available to knock goats over - you also saw Vlad throw a villager over the cliff.

And not just that, the entire Chapter 6 before Grimnir's mind battle, was on floating islands... (if you haven't noticed, those small/medium daemons have a knockback).

Curseman
02-23-2011, 01:01 AM
Fafnir is busy kicking my butt and causing rage, but it's the inability to skip the intro that has me boiling, not the learning curve of combat.

Yeah, that's lame.

Ok, let me explain why I said it was a flawed game design. I have no problem with being able to be blown off cliffs, or blow enemies off cliffs as part of the game play, but there is no first exposure to the player to teach them "Oh, this is a game mechanic I need to learn/watch out for."

If there was a level, such as a long bridge, where we were exposed to game mechanic so we can learn to deal with, and then give us a level where we are constantly bombarded by multiple enemies with the mechanic, then it would not be nearly as frustrating.

I don't get it, the game needs to go out of its way to warn people that falling off of cliffs is bad?

Besides, the third level does have cliffs where the ram enemies try to push you off (and you can do the same to them) and right before that is the airship segment, where both players and enemies can be killed by being pushed off. And as has been mentioned, the level leading up to the Grimnir fight mostly consists of small platforms and thin bridges which players and enemies can easily be knocked off of.

Even if you missed all that, the worst case scenario is that you get fall off once, adjust your tactics to take advantage of it, and you end up losing maybe five minutes of time.

aiymanube
02-23-2011, 01:10 AM
The first island, I threw up a bubble shield, and when their beams all reflected back at them, they all died or got knocked off. I forget the next two islands, but the tactic was about the same.

Right now, I'm horribly furious that, after I beat the "entire dwarf army", there's no checkpoint when you leave that room and go to where the lava is. It took me like 7 tries to beat them (insta-crushed by rocks is no fun), then I go through and, before I can react, I get crushed. Whoop, back to the beginning of fighting the army again. Grrrr...

ignus
02-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Right now, I'm horribly furious that, after I beat the "entire dwarf army", there's no checkpoint when you leave that room and go to where the lava is. It took me like 7 tries to beat them (insta-crushed by rocks is no fun), then I go through and, before I can react, I get crushed. Whoop, back to the beginning of fighting the army again. Grrrr...

Tip: There is a reason you find the summon elemental spell just before meeting the dwarf army.

But I agree, a checkpoint would be good when entering the next area. I have had to redo the dwarf army a couple of times because I get thrown into the lava before reaching the next checkpoint.

Xinhuan
02-23-2011, 07:10 AM
You don't have to redo the whole dwarf army if you die

1. You can Invisibility magick gotten earlier in the chapter to walk past the ENTIRE army into the next lava area in under 20 seconds.

2. You can Summon Elementals, Raise Dead, and use earth resistance shields to distract the army from killing you. Once you have these up, any number of ways such as
- Charm (controls target enemy for 15 seconds, really good on beholders, snow trolls and dwarf priests)
- Summon Death
- Long ranged beams
can kill the entire army in a little less than a minute.

Curseman
02-23-2011, 04:37 PM
There probably should be a checkpoint after the army though. It's arguably the hardest fight in the game.

Grey Area
02-23-2011, 04:57 PM
Even if you missed all that, the worst case scenario is that you get fall off once, adjust your tactics to take advantage of it, and you end up losing maybe five minutes of time.

And even if you missed all of that - the first four goblins (which are dead easy to kill) all drop a teleport staff - so you can easy enough grab one to *zap* yourself back on if you get blown off.

I know, I know, there are better staffs (staves?) than teleport...but at least it gives you the choice.

MisterApples
02-23-2011, 05:00 PM
I personally beat all the enemies up to the boss by just spamming the "push" spell (no elements, just right click)

aiymanube
02-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Tip: There is a reason you find the summon elemental spell just before meeting the dwarf army.

But I agree, a checkpoint would be good when entering the next area. I have had to redo the dwarf army a couple of times because I get thrown into the lava before reaching the next checkpoint.
You don't have to redo the whole dwarf army if you die

1. You can Invisibility magick gotten earlier in the chapter to walk past the ENTIRE army into the next lava area in under 20 seconds.

2. You can Summon Elementals, Raise Dead, and use earth resistance shields to distract the army from killing you. Once you have these up, any number of ways such as
- Charm (controls target enemy for 15 seconds, really good on beholders, snow trolls and dwarf priests)
- Summon Death
- Long ranged beams
can kill the entire army in a little less than a minute.

I ended up using Charm + Shields to let them duke it out, but, even now that I can beat the army fairly easily (teleporting dwarf + rouge rock = anger), a check point right after would still save a lot of unnecessary hassle.

Also, I've tried using Death a couple times, and he always appears behind me, causing me to be the one he "takes on vacation", so I've given up on him. I guess I'll just keep experimenting.

I'll try out the Invisibility spell next time. I totally forgot I had it...whoops.

Xinhuan
02-24-2011, 11:30 AM
Death always targets the thing with the least percentage hitpoints (i.e you should be at 100% health when you summon him), and your minions would already have at least lowered enemy health to less than 100%. Raise Dead is good here because Summon Death will never target an undead - so it targets something your undead minions have damaged. (Also aim where you Summon Death).

aiymanube
02-24-2011, 01:31 PM
Death always targets the thing with the least percentage hitpoints (i.e you should be at 100% health when you summon him), and your minions would already have at least lowered enemy health to less than 100%. Raise Dead is good here because Summon Death will never target an undead - so it targets something your undead minions have damaged. (Also aim where you Summon Death).

Gotcha. I'm just gonna need to experiment more with that. I thought it said Death targets the closest to him, but y'all know more than me haha. I did have a ton of fun in the swamp spamming Raise Dead and just walking behind a wall of zombies.