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View Full Version : 3 Reasons why NOT to buy MoW:AS


Guessmaname
02-25-2011, 04:50 AM
I just recently bought MoW:AS and I am very disappointed with what I received. I would argue that this game is just a money grab by the developers. Why? Because it is essentially the same as the original MoW with a few improvements and many unfixed problems from the original + new problems. I would heavily discourage anyone looking to get this game and recommend that they play the demo first to see if my concerns do not ring true.

1) A superficial look at the game will reveal that there are a few new higher resolution models for certain tanks. However, maybe around 80% of the remaining tank models are still the low res models from 4 years ago ( which now look even worse standing next to the HD models). Why, if we are paying more money for this game could they not have at least aesthetically improved the game. Why not finish modeling you tanks?

2) The only noticeable improvement to the engine is the bump mapping and new lighting ( UNFORTUNATELY these new improvements are only noticeable on the few HD models that exist).

3) Most IMPORTANTLY, the infantry in the game is broken. Broken, not because they are not balanced or anything. But because the infantry has no sense of self preservation like they do in COH. The infantry will often blob together or run in a line towards a target. They will not take cover when under heavy fire and often enter static animations which makes them stuck doing something you don't want them to. The infantry is missing a certain je ne sais quoi. I guess the best way to describe it would be to that the infantry is very static. They don't act like real people in any way, and for a game that goes for realism this is a huge problem. With Assault Squads focusing more heavily on infantry combat the mechanic is often quite frustrating. If this game had half the infantry play that COH does it would be worth a look.

However, it's not all bad. The game does offer very engaging tank combat. It just does not seem like it's worth the 30$

Psychotica
02-25-2011, 07:56 AM
Those reasons were not very compelling to me. I certainly didn't buy the game for graphics and because the series is new to me I won't even notice. I have watched many YouTube videos of this game and it's looks fine to me.

Personally I can't think of any game where the AI doesn't do stupid things, include COH. As a programmer I can appreciate the challenges that creating the AI must bring.

The reason I never bought into the series before was because of the lack of skirmish modes, as soon as I saw that was included I was in. That alone makes the game different from the previous versions.

Broken Clock
02-25-2011, 08:19 AM
I disagree.

1Crazyman1
02-25-2011, 08:23 AM
Funny you mention CoH and realism in the same blob of text. I didn't know that you could casually escape from 10 enemies standing around you shooting at you at point blank range. But it's normal for CoH, realistic huh.

kenjara
02-25-2011, 08:32 AM
Very poor reasoning

There are nothing wrong with the graphics in this game, if they have improved since men of war I never noticed. Everything looks detailed and accurate.

I buy a game for gameplay, which I find way more important than graphics. Like I said above though you get good graphics and gameplay in this game.

As for the infantry COH infantry is not realistic, like others have said they just stand there shooting enemies at point blank range until one side wins. Fair enough they find cover, but in mow each soldier is selectable on its own so its your job to put them in good firing positions.

I too am a programmer and regularly analyse AI in games. I think developers usually do a good job considering the challenge. What annoys me is when people make suggestions which would literally break the AI completely.

DMS.Instinct
02-25-2011, 09:03 AM
1) You pay for an expansion, not a full price product. Most expansions don't improve graphics at all. Secondly the game comes with over 200 vehicles and guns. Which is for my understanding unique in its class. Updating all of them would take years to finish and then you would buy MoW2, not an expansion.
Besides, we are releasing free patches with free vehicles and graphic updates over time.

2) I recommend looking at this topic:
http://www.digitalmindsoft.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=6987&p=84468#p84468

3) Self preservation in CoH? You mean they can stand on an open field being under heavy fire by an MG42 and just lie on the ground whining for 2 minutes until someone presses the retreat button? Disable hold-move and you will have natural AI with which retreats and attacks, but they will also tend to die more quickly as they will act on their own and attack whenever they can.

Gh1
02-25-2011, 10:33 AM
can people stop bring up "Mow: AS is almost the same as Mow". ofc they are similar, how different can u expect a expansion to be. i hard to noticed the difference between COH and COH TOV.....

Psycho Pigeon
02-25-2011, 02:04 PM
The thing that really pisses me off is the player AI. You order reinforcements and most of the time they will just stand at the start of the map. I constantly have to keep scrolling back and forth ordering them to the front.

gijas04
02-25-2011, 02:29 PM
The thing that really jaratees me off is the player AI. You order reinforcements and most of the time they will just stand at the start of the map. I constantly have to keep scrolling back and forth ordering them to the front.


I agree with this. I played two skrimish rounds against the AI and wasn't impressed. But I played the Beta way before this. I bought rights to play the game as it was being worked on before the closed and open beta's, but controling your men hasn't changed during all of this. Needs worked on as even online this could be a major issue.

Primebeef
02-25-2011, 03:12 PM
I am having lots of difficulties with all of MoW titles being a tankrush rts player myself mehehe but its so much fun seeing my troops getting minced by that single mg42 as I did zero preparation beforehand, could have sniped the mg gunner, or prepare the assault with some mortar shelling... the strategic depth is awesome, only down point I dislike is the constant stream of AI reinforcement squads trying to recapture, wish there was a way to disable that.

What I found ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ however is the way armor penetration sometimes plays its luck game, that Tiger standing 25 degrees towards the enemy AT and eats a oneshot hull kill in the side armor?

DTKT
02-25-2011, 03:22 PM
I was a big fan of the first MOW. When I first looked at Assault Squad, I kind of expected the same package. Story missions with twist and turns.

But once, I understood that all AS is, skirmish maps with the same mechanic across all factions, I kind toned down my excitement a bit. What AS gives is more MOW combat. Not missions. Just more core gameplay, infantry and armor combat.

I just spend a good chunk of the last hour calling in supply trucks and reloading my 4 mortar pits. Anyone looking over my shoulder would have called me crazy but thats what MOW is for me. I a great strategy simlulation on a big scale.

The reinforcement system kinda negates the pleasure of disabling a Sherman and stealing it but thats fine. Its great to be able to call in more tigers and stugs.

My recommendation goes as follow: If you enjoyed the core gameplay of the last MOW(the infantry movement, armor battles) buy AS. If the only thing you wanted was the same mission structure and "story" as in MOW, dont buy AS, because thats not what it's supposed to offer.

"For the Motherland!" US Rifleman ;)

What I found ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ however is the way armor penetration sometimes plays its luck game, that Tiger standing 25 degrees towards the enemy AT and eats a oneshot hull kill in the side armor?

One thing I found out by accident, it seems that when a front armor gets hit several times in the same general area, it seems to "crack". Meaning that even the front armor of a Puma can be pierced if enough 17pounders are shooting at it.

I was taking fire from 3 17pounder with a Heavy Rocket Panzer and shells kept bouncing off till one just 1 shotted the tank.

hardcore_hibee
02-25-2011, 03:24 PM
1) the game comes with over 200 vehicles and guns.

is there anyway to make these 200 accessable in single player??? mission after mission, same old tired units, ive spent hours takin on campaigns, it would be nice by mission 3 to have somthin a bit different

Bazooka301
02-25-2011, 05:20 PM
It is a great expansion it does what a expansion does adds new game type IE the Skirmish mode. And it is very good. The game is great. And runs smother. And to say most bugs still there is false as most bugs are fixed.

kane1
02-25-2011, 05:47 PM
I love this game. It really looks great. I'm still playing the Demo but will be buying the full game ASAP. I can't argue with some of the comments being posted, but I know what I like. Long Live SHoWW2, FoW, MoW, MoWRT, MoWAS,and soon, MoWV.

me_loco
02-25-2011, 07:30 PM
there are no other games out there that even try to come close to this one, and i'm talking about new games not the old ones.

DMS.Instinct
02-25-2011, 08:05 PM
You order reinforcements and most of the time they will just stand at the start of the map. I constantly have to keep scrolling back and forth ordering them to the front.
We'll look into it, maybe there is a way to make this working better. As for now, use the squad icons on the left, so you don't need to scroll.

Gh1
02-25-2011, 09:48 PM
The thing that really jaratees me off is the player AI. You order reinforcements and most of the time they will just stand at the start of the map. I constantly have to keep scrolling back and forth ordering them to the front.


if were u, would u want to be in the front lines? =p

Gh1
02-25-2011, 09:52 PM
is there anyway to make these 200 accessable in single player??? mission after mission, same old tired units, ive spent hours takin on campaigns, it would be nice by mission 3 to have somthin a bit different

i would like to see different tanks units, for example, for the us 3rd mission "Battle of the Bulge" the US should use the 76mm Shermans and instead of M10s they should be getting M18s.

hardcore_hibee
02-26-2011, 10:05 AM
eah im not wantin anythin new, just the units the have in MP they can get anything from like a pz1 right up to a king tiger, i get a choice of like 3tanks... do hope its modable so at somepoint ill be able to field whatever i want

Solorvox
02-28-2011, 11:31 PM
I would also like the unit information (yellow "I" on units) that multi player version has.

McTasty
03-01-2011, 04:11 AM
is there anyway to make these 200 accessable in single player??? mission after mission, same old tired units, ive spent hours takin on campaigns, it would be nice by mission 3 to have somthin a bit different

This, this, this and this.

kenjara
03-01-2011, 04:54 AM
We'll look into it, maybe there is a way to make this working better. As for now, use the squad icons on the left, so you don't need to scroll.

I use the squad icons all the time. I think they are very well laid out and you can see the squad size/unit type instantly.

Solorvox
03-04-2011, 03:23 AM
How are you supposed to tell the difference between 3 or more of the same type of units? They will all have the same icon... Or do you suggest clicking each one and seeing where they are on the map?

Smokey82
03-04-2011, 04:28 AM
2 of your points could be put together as one under 'Graphical Improvements'.

Whilst you have valid points, they are your opinion, so saying 3 reasons not to buy AS is subjective to what you want to see improved.

I think people forget how complex this game is, and that in its complexity it creates quite a few issues. AI being one of them, and maybe it isn't a quick fix? Maybe the developers are trying to fix those problems.

For me Men of War:AS is in a league of its own, and whilst it is compared to CoH, it isn't that similar other than the WW2 setting. It's a complex game which has improved hugely since MoW, yet yes somethings remain the same. Remember it is an expansion, so for a new graphics engine etc we are probably looking at MoW2. If you look at the expansions for CoH, they really didn't change that much.

StormRising33
03-04-2011, 06:47 PM
There are going to many new upgrades to skins and actual problems and fixes with the new patch their coming out in mid march, I cant wait for it, look it up on steam's mowas offical club, its going to be quite awesome.

littlenick
03-05-2011, 11:00 AM
You can't tell me that Brood War reinvented the wheel, or that Frozen Throne was a complete overhaul of the system. Nor can you say that Men of War was just a rehash of Soldiers.

This is an expansion and it wasn't even sold at the $60USD price mark that aforementioned expansions were sold at. Besides this has changed the game by putting more emphasis on infantry and multiplayer. Skirmish could've been better from what I hear, sure, but we no longer live in the age of complete products being sold as is and I'm not sure we ever were. Starcraft didn't include a replay system till way after launch, and its hard to imagine it without one now.

All I have to say about your comments on infantry ai is that if you cannot handle the fire, stay out of the kitchen. Go back to your over simplified and quite frankly nonsensical CoH combat.

On the subject of features released after launch, at least this game has real working arranged team matches, it took CoH over a year (or was it two) to get it right. And its expansions were piss by comparison.

DUTCH-BUDDHA
04-13-2011, 03:23 AM
i agree and att

1=gamespy sucks big time
2=retailversion candt activat on steam
3=no storydriffen campaine
4=bad suport

Squid3d
04-13-2011, 04:49 AM
i agree and att

1=gamespy sucks big time
2=retailversion candt activat on steam
3=no storydriffen campaine
4=bad suport

1. i can't disagree with this :)
2. yes, it can.
3. there was never, ever mention of any story/campaign.
4. support has been excellent. try the official DMS forums.

DUTCH-BUDDHA
04-13-2011, 05:45 AM
candt activat dutch retail version meby if u activat it first on gamespy budt if u candt activat becos gamespy wondt return my emails so i candt log in so no activation

danfradl
04-13-2011, 09:08 AM
I would disagree with this negative assessment. I have had my first two infantry squads last very long into the game. If you tell your infantry to run straight at trained soldiers in cover with automatic weapons, your infantry will die. COH infantry not very smart last time I checked -- they stand around while sniper picks them off one by one. But if you use fire & manuever, mortars, smoke, etc, it will work much better -- and it's great fun to have put together a well-executed, successful infantry assault.

The graphics look great to me, would more graphics make this that much more fun? Perhaps you are throwing out baby w/bathwater.

ANd so many great options -- like when Brits bring up Churchill tanks and they are like a moving bunker that takes everything you've got to destroy. Great stuff.

And it's only $30! MOW series is the kind of game I've always dreamed of having, and now it's here.

Barser
04-13-2011, 01:17 PM
is there anyway to make these 200 accessable in single player??? mission after mission, same old tired units, ive spent hours takin on campaigns, it would be nice by mission 3 to have somthin a bit different

Yes this is what I am asking for all the time in here :). Random units or different units for each mission along with different enemy setups for some much needed variety. Should be easy enough with all the units currently available already.

The game is really good but doing something about the above along with fixing some bugs here and there they game would be truly awesome. :D

Guessmaname
04-21-2011, 02:34 PM
I must say they are supporting the game very well though... that is to say they are making a lot of new 3d models for tanks. I just wish that they would realize that their game doesn't have the same presentation that COH does, yet it would be a far superior game if they could just take some pointers from it. I know some of you don't like it when this game is compared with COH, because it a completely different game, but- The way the units always respond to you in COH makes you far more engaged, where as in this game the units hardly ever say anything and it is hardly ever appropriate. Where as in COH your guys will walk past a tractor or a tank and start to talk about it..this just puts you right into the experience and makes it more believable. Every good RTS has responsive units that have a variety of things that they say. IMAGINE- if the tiger tank or and of the heavy tanks had particular voices and personalities like they do in COH.

Additionally, the infantry AI has to be fixed! They always get stuck in animations which is far too frustrating - for example when a guy is throwing an A.T grenade the character model will keep desperately trying to get within range of the tank. However, if the tank is moving the infantry unit will run within the maximum throwing range start the animation to throw and then be stopped by the fact the tank has left his maximum range and run to start the animation again...WHY!? Long animations might look nice but players don't like to lose control for a long time (this seems to almost be a ubiquitous thing amongst all other developers). All the animation that have long durations are weak because you can clearly see when they enter them and get out of the way. All they would have to do would be to reduce the range from which the infantry can throw a A.T grenade and increase the range of his actual throw, possibly including a shorter animation to making the whole process less frustrating and more fun+realistic.

Overall, I definitely think the game does a few things very well- but- I would like to see them adopt some of the simple conventions that other RTSs use in regards to animations and sound; additionally, the infantry AI has many large flaws where they will all run in a line- if for example you tell an entire squad to charge a tank!

Crutchley29
04-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Funny you mention CoH and realism in the same blob of text. I didn't know that you could casually escape from 10 enemies standing around you shooting at you at point blank range. But it's normal for CoH, realistic huh.

Thats why we have Blitzkrieg Mod. Completely changes the game. and much more fun than MOW.

Lt Robert Cole
04-28-2011, 12:09 AM
Thats why we have Blitzkrieg Mod. Completely changes the game. and much more fun than MOW.

Nope.avi

sigmer
04-28-2011, 09:26 AM
i think the new DLCs will kill the game, im not paying 5 euro for 5 maps, none in my preferred game mode, this will split an already small community.

But i think Guessmaname is right, this game is much better than CoH in the mechanics.

katzenkrimis
04-28-2011, 04:29 PM
I 3) Most IMPORTANTLY, the infantry in the game is broken. Broken, not because they are not balanced or anything. But because...

I agree with you about the infantry. It's one of the main reasons i stopped playing this game. Bad infantry animations. Bad pathfinding. Poor sense of direction, space and movement.

I found myself always scrolling the map looking for them when they'd refuse to push forward after a call-in. Sometimes they'd stop halfway across the battlefield for no reason whatsoever.

And i hated it when they'd push their guns straight into the rocks and bushes. And get stuck.

Scroll, scroll, scroll. Where the hell are they? No time for this sh--t.

DMS.Instinct
04-29-2011, 10:03 AM
Firstly there is a patch available for everyone that solves this. Secondly it's becoming increasingly off-topic and outdated so I lock the topic down.