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YukoValis
03-03-2011, 03:46 PM
It's interesting, and a new kind of puzzle.. but it's certainly not worth the asking price in my opinion. Like 10$ would be slightly more reasonable.

Sure it deals with all the elements on the table, but in the end they are reduced to nothing more but circles while trying to solve a puzzle. If you were to show the finished product of combining the elements that would be something... but all this is, is circles and lines.

Outrider
03-03-2011, 09:35 PM
I disagree - well worth the $15. I've spent more on games that are much less original and less entertaining. I feel smart after completing a level (at least until I see how my solution ranks against other engineers... :o). Besides, without Zachtronics there would be no Minecraft (see: Infiniminer). Can't you cough up the extra $5 just for that alone?

pkt-zer0
03-03-2011, 09:36 PM
So uhh... I'm not quite sure what your point is. The game doesn't have particularly exciting visuals, sure, but the mechanics are what sell the thing, anyway. You're not supposed to buy the game because it has circles and lines, but because it's the smartest damn puzzle game in the last ten years.

kray28
03-04-2011, 01:41 AM
For the type of game it is....it's well worth the money. I'm confused though, is the OP actually complaining about $5?

If you think it's too expensive, just play the demo. It's pretty long and involved.

AusSkiller
03-04-2011, 02:50 AM
I agree with the OP, $10 would be a better price, I love the game but as far as I can tell it's lacking re-playability so for now I've got it in my wish list, and if it hits $10 I'm buying it, or if there's a patch that introduces some sort of re-playability then I'll shell out the $15.

ledow
03-04-2011, 05:09 AM
I'm not one for certain puzzle games, especially ones that need such investment in time, but I found the *idea* more interesting than anything else. I tried the demo first (people always whinge about games when they haven't tried the demo first) and initial feeling was "Oh, its not going to be the type of puzzle I like" followed by nearly a whole hour of playing it. At that point, I realised it was actually really good fun in terms of concept and gameplay (graphics, sound, etc. don't really feature high on my list of what I want in a game) and I ended up buying it before the demo expired.

To my view, it's the first "commercial" game that deals with something people have bee trying to "game-ify" for years - you're basically programming when you play the game, and there are thousands of those "control a robot" kind of pseudo-programming "games" that are boring as hell (and I'm already a professional programmer!).

And it won't be long before I've memorised the layouts of a few well-known compounds, either. I'm hoping the game's depictions of them are accurate, because my mind is absorbing them as I work towards making those compounds.

I thought it was well-worth the money, and I'm the kind of person who considers 1/hour of entertainment very expensive from a game.

Zeewolf
03-04-2011, 05:21 AM
This game is more than worth the money, and it'll take tons of time to complete. If you ever get that far.

pkt-zer0
03-04-2011, 06:41 AM
it's lacking re-playability
There'll be a level editor (and two new reaction mechanics) added in the near future. That should help with the replayability.

Fatdude
03-04-2011, 06:51 AM
Tried the demo and the game is a nice puzzle actual chem game.I'm cheap so i'm gonna wait for a discount.

supermat100
03-04-2011, 10:28 AM
There is zero sense of achievement in it. Maybe its designed to make people believe they aren't as dumb as they really are.

So you're saying the game is too easy? Have you finished the demo? Try playing the optional level at the end and use only 1 reactor, and tell me that's not an achievement. I like this game, but I do agree the price is too high (esp. in Europe). When the inevitable Steam sale comes and this game is 75% off, I'll definitely pick it up.

AusSkiller
03-04-2011, 10:38 AM
There'll be a level editor (and two new reaction mechanics) added in the near future. That should help with the replayability.

Serious?! Awesome! I have no problem paying the $15 for it in that case :). Finished the demo a few hours ago and there were a few cool new things that I hadn't seen when I originally posted so I was already tempted to get it at $15 though decided to hold off, but a level editor will certainly tip the scales in favor of buying it :).

pnptcn
03-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Even what's in the game offers a ton of replayability. I seriously doubt anyone is going to get an optimal solution their first time every time.

And with a level editor on the way, my willpower crumbles even further. If I hadn't already spent more money than I should have on Steam this week, I'd have already bought it. Curse you, Serious Sam 3 announcement for getting me hyped to the point of buying the Serious Sam HD Double pack at full price! Ok, not really. You can't ever get enough Serious Sam in my opinion.

So yeah, SpaceChem is the best thing in puzzle games ever, I think. Certainly is a great change from all the match three games that are always rolling out.

shrike92
03-04-2011, 06:02 PM
I think this game is aimed at failed chemists or failed civil engineers. There is zero sense of achievement in it. Maybe its designed to make people believe they aren't as dumb as they really are.

I am a mechanical engineer and I have friends that are chemical engineers and we all find this game extremely fun. If you're playing this game to compensate for some sort of failure in your own life then it's no surprise you'd think this way. There is no reason to put down the people who do enjoy the game.

It is simply a puzzle game with a space/chemistry skin. It's a theme to flesh out the concept. What we find enjoyable is the challenge (and yes, there is one) and the thought you can put into optimization (often the most time consuming part of any design process).

This game is well worth the asking price (at least in US dollars) and I've already gotten more enjoyment from it than games twice or three times its cost.

pkt-zer0
03-04-2011, 07:29 PM
yeah, well I dont know where exacly I am right now in the demo but it's pretty easy, just apply the same few basic moves. Like doing a grab with both blue and red before fusing, that takes you half through the demo lol.
That's not saying a whole lot, considering half the demo is the tutorial.

kray28
03-04-2011, 08:05 PM
I've tried the demo because I try everyhing that tries to bring a new genre of games to PC.

It can never be worth 14.99EURO or 20.94 DOLLAR at current exchange rates. For that price Id rather have something entertaining.

I think this game is aimed at failed chemists or failed civil engineers. There is zero sense of achievement in it. Maybe its designed to make people believe they aren't as dumb as they really are.

LOL. That has to be the most idiotic thing I've read today. And you think you are smart...that might be the problem to begin with.

There is nothing you need to know about chemistry (or engineering for that matter) to do well with this game.

Hiiri
03-04-2011, 08:46 PM
I think this game is aimed at failed chemists or failed civil engineers. There is zero sense of achievement in it.

In some cases, you're right. You'd have to be able to finish a level first to feel it.

ccfreak2k
03-05-2011, 01:17 AM
To my view, it's the first "commercial" game that deals with something people have bee trying to "game-ify" for years - you're basically programming when you play the game, and there are thousands of those "control a robot" kind of pseudo-programming "games" that are boring as hell (and I'm already a professional programmer!).
The guy behind SpaceChem seems to have liked this (http://www.kongregate.com/games/PleasingFungus/manufactoria) game which is basically exactly as you describe, although it's a free flash game.

There is nothing you need to know about chemistry (or engineering for that matter) to do well with this game.
Well, it helps to know that carbon can have up to four bonds with other atoms, for example, but hydrogen can only have the one.

YukoValis
03-05-2011, 04:24 AM
I am a mechanical engineer and I have friends that are chemical engineers and we all find this game extremely fun. If you're playing this game to compensate for some sort of failure in your own life then it's no surprise you'd think this way. There is no reason to put down the people who do enjoy the game.


Then maybe you can share something with the rest of us. Are the chemical combinations sound? It's all well and done working with the circles and lines to get what the goal says you should, but if the element combinations don't make sense, what's the point?

TP1
03-05-2011, 06:03 AM
Well, it helps to know that carbon can have up to four bonds with other atoms, for example, but hydrogen can only have the one.

In the game, there is a period table to show you bond numbers. Additionally, regardless of how many bonds carbon (or any other element) has in real life, in the game there is a max of 3 bonds.

This is not a game about chemistry, and needs no chemistry knowledge to play. It's a game about computer programming and how to visually describe and produce logic. It just uses chemistry and engineering as a "skin".

-TP1

xepherys
03-05-2011, 02:22 PM
This thread has some pretty ridiculous posts. Who the hell cares if it accurately depicts chemical bonding (which, on a very basic level at least, it does), it's a puzzler. That's like saying Peggle sucks because there's no such thing as unicorns. Ridiculous!

As for replayability, and I'm just reiterating what others have said, fine-tuning your machines allows for HUGE amounts of replayability, and is part of what makes the game so challenging - especially since you can compare your efficiency with other players.

This game is AWESOME!

yasokhuul
03-06-2011, 05:54 AM
The guy behind SpaceChem seems to have liked this (http://www.kongregate.com/games/PleasingFungus/manufactoria) game which is basically exactly as you describe, although it's a free flash game.


May I correct you? When you'd have read the credits in manufactoria you'd know that the guy behind Manufactoria was inspired by Zachtronics other free flashgames like "The Codex of Alchemical Engineering".


Also I'm always astonished when people discuss if a game is worth 15$... that's around 10 1/2 for me and that's around 2 1/2 packs of cigaretts...
I always think about, if i would trade the game, i want to buy, for 2 1/2 packs of cigaretts and most of the time the answer is "yes, 2 1/2 packs of cigaretts are nothing".

kalmis
03-06-2011, 07:16 AM
I think that SpaceChem is worth what they are asking. So addicting gameplay and I think there is tons of replayability. Once the level is beaten you can always optimize it.

Elenoe
03-06-2011, 07:28 AM
will be nice if they add some global leadersboard. Since my first succesfull try is usually better then 85% others and since its not posible to create "perfect solution in all way" (fast solutions are way different to construct then the minimalist ones), I prefer to leave my "inperfect but nice to look" solution. And there is no way to save different variants so I dont like to destroy it for nothing. If there however would be some global points... :)

pnptcn
03-06-2011, 12:12 PM
The graphs you get after a solution are global comparisons to all the other solutions that came before yours. So there are your global leaderboards.

It would be pretty nice to have all of that information accessible in a single place though. Especially if you could filter the information for things like your friends lists and the like.

vhold
03-07-2011, 02:23 AM
When a game is as niche as this one is, it makes sense to ask for more money. This is not a game that's going to be going crazy viral. It's really well done, but it has a fairly narrow target market.

That said, it is by far the most fun to play game of its kind in a long time because the controls are not a giant hindrance as they normally would be for something like this.

Elenoe
03-07-2011, 09:20 AM
by global leaderboards I mean "global for campaign". Current graphs are really rough. I'm speaking about one rank per profile, not per level (even anonymous woud be good). Since there is no rank and no option to save variations I dont like to build 4 different solutions (one for every graph and one for "beauty") when there is no.. you know.. "greater goal" :) Peoples like to compete and its far more better when your goal is simply comparative. 50 different levels with score for each one is not easily comparative and IMO it degrades replayability by great amount for very little update efford.

lexe
03-07-2011, 03:04 PM
So you're saying the game is too easy? Have you finished the demo? Try playing the optional level at the end and use only 1 reactor, and tell me that's not an achievement. I like this game, but I do agree the price is too high (esp. in Europe). When the inevitable Steam sale comes and this game is 75% off, I'll definitely pick it up.

Ye I've beaten it. I found out this game can be "played" offline aswell. On a dull moment at work I figured out the solution.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7356/tryoutm.jpg (http://img809.imageshack.us/i/tryoutm.jpg/)

using that I made this:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1774/tryout2.jpg (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/tryout2.jpg/)

It's the optional level at the end, in one reactor. I'm still too cheap to buy it for the USA price + 5$ though. /lol :rolleyes:



Edit:
When a game is as niche as this one is, it makes sense to ask for more money. This is not a game that's going to be going crazy viral. It's really well done, but it has a fairly narrow target market.


You may have a point there about niche games. But why charge more for Europe than for the USA ? 1 dollar does not equal 1 euro, the smallest kid knows that. I think the Internet has learned us over the years what happens if you overcharge.