multiplayer connection issues in games with 5+ players

[patondeez]

Oooookay so...

I basically can't play any games bigger than a 2v2. When I'm playing 3v3 or 4v4 the game starts out okay and then I can see intermittent ping spikes until eventually I lose connection to the other players and the game ends. I have no other issues with online games, my connection is good and my internet isn't dropping. I'm not uploading or downloading.

What are the connection requirements for a 6 or 8 player game? My speed test shows pretty consistently these figures:

Last Result:
Download Speed: 13431 kbps (1678.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 3579 kbps (447.4 KB/sec transfer rate)

Any help would be great!

another speed test result: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1189299421.png

- I know this is equivalent to or better than other players who can play the big games :(

edit2/ this just happened on a 2v2 about halfway into the game...pings all spike to 3000+ and then the game drops.

seems to be happening in combat...

[patondeez]

I'm on a wireless router also...

[YippyHippy]

Customary dx-dump or at least what OS you are running on would help.

Two things I'd try. First, turn off the wireless, get an Ethernet cable and plug into the router.

And second, launch a host and launch a multiplayer game with you and 7 AIs to see if it's your computer that can't handle it, or your connection.

[patondeez]

It's definitely not my computer, because on my old wired university connection I never had issues.

I'm not sure if it will be possible to run an ethernet cord in this situation, though. I can try, but the logistics of it won't work out in the long run. For testing purposes it makes sense to give it a shot though I'll just have to move my computer temporarily, maybe it's a firmware thing with my router.

Anyway, not sure what a dx-dump is but I'm on Win 7. Like I said, my previous connection ran all games perfectly.

[Ric666]

I have exactly the same problems & have always had this problem with this game. It's really frustrating as I want to play some 4v4's but it never works.

Poorly implemented system I think as I have absolutely no problems playing any other multiplayer games.

I use a solid connection aswell so no wireless for me to worry about.

[Baldrickk]

Unlike many (most) other online games, supcom connects you with all the other players via p2p rather than just connecting to a server. It is common knowledge that the game uses up a lot of bandwidth, as the locations of every projectile etc. are transmitted to everyone else. It could be that you are filling the buffer of your router resulting in a much higher latency while it tries to clear it. If it gets too bad, the game will see no traffic for [threshold value] and disconnect.
Going into battle with either a lot of units, a lot of players or both can cause this to happen faster. More units increases load on each connection and more players mean more connections. Having more players is worse than a few more units so this is why you'll see it occur more with games with more players

[Ric666]

I see what you're saying but pretty much every RTS game uses P2P(including starcraft2) & this is the first one I've ever had a problem with :(

[Baldrickk]

The thing is, gpg took a different method to other designers with how weapons work among other things. Where in some games a shot will hit or mis a target, and this is decided at firing time, supcom simulates it all. This with the p2p nature of the game (as Chris Taylor admits) does mean that the game is the most bandwidth heavy game currently in production / produced. It is one of the things they were going to try and work on in K&C.

[Baldrickk]

Patondeez, what router do you have? and what firmware is installed on it?

Might give a clue as to the issue.

[Ric666]

Good to hear it's a known problem anyway. A real shame aswell though.

[patondeez]

Netgear router:

Account Name WGR614v7
Hardware Version V7
Firmware Version V2.0.23_1.0.23NA

------------------------------------------

Can anyone give me figures on what type of speeds this game requires on the upstream side? I'm guessing by the responses that my connection is fine...

[Sac_Soul]

Good to hear it's a known problem anyway. A real shame aswell though.

Not really. I'll take a bandwidth heavy game that actually simulates EVERYTHING to the normal dice-rolling mechanics of every other game out there.

Keep in mind that this game is not only bandwidth heavy, it is upload bandwidth heavy. Very few games utilize much upload bandwidth, so comparing this game on your connection to other games holds no water. I'm fairly sure OPs 400 KB/s upload is not anywhere near enough to handle large games. Being on a wireless doesn't help much either, especially if it is a cheap router. Cheap routers have a tendency to really, really suck if anything is upload heavy.

Hell, I'm on a 1.5 MB/s up hard-lined connection with a moderately expensive "gaming" router and I sometimes get spikes in a 4v4 if I'm running TS or Vent in the background and try to talk to my team (i.e. using even more upload bandwidth).

[Baldrickk]

My upload speed is only .5Mb/s, but the only other uploading I'll do is voice comm. I replaced the router my isp gave me with a better one too. Seems to work ok.

[patondeez]

Okay, I just played a 10 minutes 2v2 game with bandwith monitor going in the background.

http://i.imgur.com/bXVCX.png

From the screen shot you can see that my connection was NEVER taxed in either upload or download, but lag spikes were still happening in combat. The spike at the end I assume was from downloading all the post-match data or something.

The lag spikes didn't correlate to any peaks or valleys on the bandwidth meter...so I'm left to assume that it either has something to do with the wireless or with the router...

/edit - for the record, the scale of this chart - the top of the chart is my maximum upload speed.

will update once i've tried a few more things

[Ric666]

I'm fairly sure OPs 400 KB/s upload is not anywhere near enough to handle large games. Being on a wireless doesn't help much either, especially if it is a cheap router. Cheap routers have a tendency to really, really suck if anything is upload heavy.

Hell, I'm on a 1.5 MB/s up hard-lined connection with a moderately expensive "gaming" router and I sometimes get spikes in a 4v4 if I'm running TS or Vent in the background and try to talk to my team (i.e. using even more upload bandwidth).

lol...that's pretty crazy that you're still getting spikes aswell! doesn't look it'll ever be fixable then.

Apart from lighting broadband ;)

[patondeez]

Not really. I'll take a bandwidth heavy game that actually simulates EVERYTHING to the normal dice-rolling mechanics of every other game out there.

Keep in mind that this game is not only bandwidth heavy, it is upload bandwidth heavy. Very few games utilize much upload bandwidth, so comparing this game on your connection to other games holds no water. I'm fairly sure OPs 400 KB/s upload is not anywhere near enough to handle large games. Being on a wireless doesn't help much either, especially if it is a cheap router. Cheap routers have a tendency to really, really suck if anything is upload heavy.

Hell, I'm on a 1.5 MB/s up hard-lined connection with a moderately expensive "gaming" router and I sometimes get spikes in a 4v4 if I'm running TS or Vent in the background and try to talk to my team (i.e. using even more upload bandwidth).

It's still not making sense to me, if it was an issue with my upstream throughput, wouldn't my upstream be maxed out during gameplay? According to the research I've done I'm using around 10% of my available upstream bandwidth while in a multiplayer game. Something doesn't add up with the slow connection explanation.

[Baldrickk]

The thing to remember is that the occasional shutter in gameplay can be found when any one client drops behind in the sync process. This could be due to an underpowered machine or a lost packet etc. So these events will probably not all match up with your network comms. In fact, the more players you have, the less likely you will be to see these sort if things on your up/down load chart. As there is less chance it'll be you. The other possible cause is a desync although most (at least all the known causes) of those have been fixed. When you play, are you playing mostly with people close to you geographically? From experience, someone playing with a close group, all of which are far away from him/her will have a greater chance of disconnecting.

[patondeez]

The thing to remember is that the occasional shutter in gameplay can be found when any one client drops behind in the sync process. This could be due to an underpowered machine or a lost packet etc. So these events will probably not all match up with your network comms. In fact, the more players you have, the less likely you will be to see these sort if things on your up/down load chart. As there is less chance it'll be you. The other possible cause is a desync although most (at least all the known causes) of those have been fixed. When you play, are you playing mostly with people close to you geographically? From experience, someone playing with a close group, all of which are far away from him/her will have a greater chance of disconnecting.


I wish I knew, my guess is that most players are in Europe while I'm in the United States on the west coast. If I could be picky about who I play with I would, but there are so few people online with this game that usually when I want to play I've only got one or two games to choose from.

[harpo 1000]

that is so cool!!! I didnt know u could play 4v4 in this cant do it on the xbox.

[Shingy]

My connection is way worse than yours is I have like 800k/b download 80 k/b upload and I can play on 4v4s more often than not fine. I mean I get the occasional game where it is laggy but I don't tend to drop completely at all.

Could you post your specs in the thread?

[patondeez]

Just wanted to update everyone on this issue.

It looks like interference from air ducts in the walls of my house was causing deflection of my WiFi signal. I've run an ethernet cable to the upstairs of the house to another router connected in line with the basement router and it looks like the issues have been resolved. Granted, there are so few people playing this game anymore that I haven't had the opportunity to try any massive scale games - but the smaller ones I've played I notice no ping spikes anymore.

I'm guessing that because SC2 relies so heavily on sending every little calculation that when some of the signal is deflected/lost it really has a huge impact on the game. You wouldn't see this same issue in a download or almost anywhere else (even other games).

I hope this is helpful for other players having finicky multiplayer connections.

[Baldrickk]

Just wanted to update everyone on this issue.

It looks like interference from air ducts in the walls of my house was causing deflection of my WiFi signal. I've run an ethernet cable to the upstairs of the house to another router connected in line with the basement router and it looks like the issues have been resolved. Granted, there are so few people playing this game anymore that I haven't had the opportunity to try any massive scale games - but the smaller ones I've played I notice no ping spikes anymore.

I'm guessing that because SC2 relies so heavily on sending every little calculation that when some of the signal is deflected/lost it really has a huge impact on the game. You wouldn't see this same issue in a download or almost anywhere else (even other games).

I hope this is helpful for other players having finicky multiplayer connections.

Good to hear that you've got it sorted, if you are having problems on WiFi then switching to wired is always a good first step. Didn't realise that you were using wireless or that would have been my first suggestion - sorry.

I'm on UK time, but if you are around I'll be on this evening (my time) if you want to try and setup a large game.