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View Full Version : Cold Stream Honest Critique Needed. Appreciation needed, and most of ALL no insults.


Stoogefrenzy3k
03-23-2011, 04:06 AM
Hi Zombie Shooters!

VALVe warned everyone this is Beta. They're trying to provide the community with free add-ons, updates, and they're very generous to provide continued free content/support. Lot of companies(EA for example) out there, sells a game, its dead with maybe 1 or 2 additional add-ons within 6 months.. you're at loss of money you spent on. How long has L4D1/2 been out, WOW, no need to tell time, tell me what company does the same work in that duration?

Be Appreciative, you're not paying extra, they will eventually fix some bugs here and there.

Since this is Beta, just tell them the problems you're experiencing. If you just downright insult them, they will think fans insult us all time, why bother helping the fans. Just like your neighbors, if they are mean to u, you insult them, what happens? They can ignore you, or say goodbye to friendship.

The word today is Appreciation. Appreciate what you have. Only for so long does VALVe appreciate their fans, and will continue to do so.

Thanks for listening and thanks to VALVe for not ignoring true fans.

Smear
03-23-2011, 06:29 AM
You want my honest opinion? It's really well done. It's a nice, new environment with some fresh events and a good use of the "Shakey mountain suddenly Tank".

It could use a few more land marks, as some of the directions are not really presented clearly. EG: You're in the hut, now what? The window doesn't break when you M2 it so I spent 5 mins looking for another solution, figuring that wasn't right. The explosion on the bridge, there's a gap on your side that it turns out you aren't meant to use but looks very much like you should. The mast on the sail boat is a little counter-intuitive and pretty much a death trap, which left me wandering around figuring I was wrong... Etc.

Other then that. It looks good, it plays well and it feels interesting. I like it.

GLaw
03-23-2011, 07:04 AM
I agree with Smear. Without all the Valve hugging.

NaturalSky
03-23-2011, 07:05 AM
Lot of companies(EA for example) out there, sells a game, its dead with maybe 1 or 2 additional add-ons within 6 months.. you're at loss of money you spent on. How long has L4D2 been out, WOW, no need to tell time, tell me what company does the same work in that duration?

Fixed.

MADDOGGE
03-23-2011, 07:27 AM
I found it OK. A little buggy but as we were told it's beta. I found it a little tedious being mostly confined to the river bed. It seemed the hit boxes were off a bit. When the game started all I had was a pistol while the bots had the good stuff. If there is a weapons stash at the beginning I can't find it. Took a long time until I came across a real weapon.

The foliage made the game nerve raking in a good way.:D I found myself getting stuck in the rocks many times. The didn't seem to be any respawn closets. Ro got killed near the beginning of one map and she didn't return until after the safe house.:confused:

As for the chopper I would have waited until we were already out of the safe house and no way back before crashing the first chopper. To be honest i don't think I would have left the safe hose in real life if I saw the chopper crash. I mean why bother.

Over all I like it but i have played better. Still I didn't have to hunt this one down and install this on like I do the others.

Sleepy Ben
03-23-2011, 07:33 AM
I appreciate the work of the author but honestly I don't think he's very good at thinking out the layout of levels.

Take Blood Harvest as a good example - it manages to portary the outdoors quite well (given the limitations of the Source engine) but still gives the player a fairly clear linear path whereas CS has you rambling all over the place and doubling back on yourself.

There's a logicality to Valves' map that makes you think they could be based on real places but I dont get that feeling with CS. Who is going to climb down a yachts' mast in real life?

The bridge whilst being interesting will be a nightmare on Versus - a half competent Infected team will wipe out the Survivors every time. Dead Center has 'death charge' spots but also enough room for a sensible player to avoid the charges whereas the bridge has places where an entire team could be easily wiped out - its not balanced.

What was the point of the chopper crash? It didnt tell you anything except that maybe there was no point in leaving the saferoom!

No river sounds? I know its a beta but the river is the focus of a lot of the maps and they could put in new textures (thats how it looked) but no actual sound of running water!

bluz74
03-23-2011, 07:45 AM
As for the chopper I would have waited until we were already out of the safe house and no way back before crashing the first chopper. To be honest i don't think I would have left the safe hose in real life if I saw the chopper crash. I mean why bother.


When we saw it crash, I got on the mic and said, "They are nuts, if they think I'm running to that copter!" :confused:

I think they are going to fix that finale. It doesn't make much sense.

TheCombatMedic
03-23-2011, 07:49 AM
Most of the community maps aren't based on real life anyway, so they don't follow Valve's logic when it comes to map making. Sometimes things are done just for the fun of it (but too much in that direction also causes problems)

Redirect Left
03-23-2011, 07:52 AM
In my opinion, it doesn't fit in with the other campaigns.

However, it is a good effort and mainly well made. If a slight rip of Blood Harvest, and the layout is just cringeworthy.

too hard for SI, needs more hiding places too,

yo-yo
03-23-2011, 07:52 AM
Played it up to the third part...Have to say I dont really like it. I understand that somewhere along their journy they have to go through a forest. But I just prefer the indoors levels aside from dark carnvial. Not really into this map but hey at least they are keeping this interesting. Playing it in Vs was just diffcult to me no real places for SI to hide where they wernt really expected. Nice job none the less the textures, graphics, and the idea was a very well thought through idea. IMO this map is a 6/10.

bluz74
03-23-2011, 07:53 AM
Most of the community maps aren't based on real life anyway, so they don't follow Valve's logic when it comes to map making. Sometimes things are done just for the fun of it (but too much in that direction also causes problems)

Oh yeah, I agree. I'm not saying it needs to make perfect sense, I mean come on, laser sights on a combat shotty? :D

I just don't think a cut scene to get out of the safe room is a good idea though. If you have to restart it a bunch of times, that cut scene is going to get real old real fast.

yo-yo
03-23-2011, 07:53 AM
Double post. Please Ingore.

Snoopy123
03-23-2011, 07:55 AM
I really liked it. Just finished it this morning. I had a few problems though. I glitched on some parts really bad. And after exiting 2nd safe room, that glare from the sunlight was really bad.

But I enjoyed it, loved the graphics!! Good JOB!!

Oh and could use more guns at the very start :)

Radical_Danny
03-23-2011, 07:55 AM
A bit more directional signs and talk could be useful...

The first time I played the finale I was running around not knowing or seeing (damn trees :( ) I needed to get into the little helicopter in the corner... :\

Also some other places I got a bit stuck not knowing where the route is to take...

michael89
03-23-2011, 08:04 AM
Has anyone else noticed, that the river doesnt have a flooding sound? :P

zapwizard
03-23-2011, 08:07 AM
Has anyone else noticed, that the river doesnt have a flooding sound? :P

Hopefully that will be fixed, but it was downer for me.

Otherwise this is a great campaign, as far as fun and challenging.
I submitted over 25 bugs, most are minor, some are game breaking.
I have been working on my own campaign for over a year, I don't know how long Mike took to make this one, but he did pretty good for a long campaign. The later flooded areas are great, but impossible to ever reach in versus.

JUSTiNHELL
03-23-2011, 08:08 AM
Its the most fun i had in a l4d2 campaign thats for sure, my only grip is that (as valve mentioned in the blog) some places are bland, like the bridge map, when you get out of the sewers, it is poorly made and bland, and even the bridge doesnt have that fancy look that the parish bridge has.

Other than that the rest of the maps look amazing and well done, i just hope they fill in those bland parts with some more life and this is bound to be one of the best VS campaigns yet.

As for the bugs, there are a few, the most noticible beeing players get stuck in some areas, that is what beta testing is for, it will all be fixed im sure.

snakebite105
03-23-2011, 08:12 AM
More landmarks I had trouble finding where I was going on every level except the bridge level.

I Got stuck on rocks a lot in the stream. This has to be fixed.

Anyplace with a long ladder to climb seems like it would insta kill all the survivors on vs mode.

Make the finally chopper leave downed allies. I am NOT climbing back down that thing and a tank is climbing up FLY FLY GOOGO AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH.

KoshLovesYou
03-23-2011, 08:44 AM
Is in-game bug reporting still not yet enabled? Screenshotting/commenting would be a lot easier. Overall, the campaign was nice, but theres some pretty significant detractions.

Landmarks has been mentioned. The first map REALLY needs strong visual cues to guide the flow of the players. The lighting of the first map is a bit bland, and could benifit from a bit of 'canopy' shadowing, which could help with the 'where do I go' issue. Offical Valve maps usually achived this using lighting effects or having eye-catching markers that popped from the backdrop, or even tiny visual cues that suggested "someone else before you went this way". There are quite a few spots that could use that in the first and second maps. Even a cue that "other survivors jumped this truck", perhaps making non-moveable crates pushed together against vehicles to suggest makeshift stairs. Otherwise its hard to distinguish the 'backgrop' cars from some of the 'get up atop this particular vehicle' cars. Looking at 'The Parish' for how Valve distinguishes the 'ramp\ladder' vehicles and 'obstacle' vehicles might help.

Additionally, was there a scripted "landslide" event? Since a tank triggered, its hard to tell if that was a scripted event or a tank utilizing large boulders to knock people down. If its the former, it isn't a very clear cue. If its a tank item, keep in mind that the boulders can pin non-incapacitated people to the sides of the riverbed, making it impossible for them to get around.

And while the 'missle bomb' slowdown event was neat, considering how early and quickly it triggers before players are in any danger of being crushed by falling items? It could do to be speed up a tiny bit, by at least five to ten seconds. Otherwise it becomes less an "OH HECK!" moment and more of a "wait are we lagging or what" event. Either that, or only trigger it when at least one player is a bit closer to actually being under the missle impact area.

Other than that, and the issue with weapons not being set to remain after being selected (made the first map a bit of a pain), I didn't see a real problem. There are spots that really need a once over with lighting, preventing the map from seeming too bland, but the actual FLOW of the map 's campaign itself? Great!

It'd be nice if Valve threw in a few original audio recording cues or even new survivor messages so old ones didn't have to get reused. OH! And I noticed some textures in-game used OSHA materials. That actually might be a copyright issue, since OSHA is a federal institution. Might be better to edit or replace it with CEDA materials.

Smear
03-23-2011, 08:55 AM
I agree with Smear. Without all the Valve hugging.

I'm just lonley. :(

GLaw
03-23-2011, 09:00 AM
I'm just lonley. :(

Lol, I meant the OP. I'd rep you, but it says I have to spread the love around.:D

Bindal
03-23-2011, 09:11 AM
I'm just lonley. :(
No wonder if you charge at everyone while holding a bucket full of flamable liquid in the one and a lighter or a pack of matches in the other hand - or whatever stuff you use now after someone was able to counter you with the bucket-thing.

Then again, those people are usually as smart as a piece of bread and wouldn't remember that you just turned them into a human torch and would still hug you afterwards (Just hope the fire went off when they do so. It might hurt if not).




To be honest, I didn't had any expectations in this campaign at all after playing 2EE (which Valve also prised like it was the holy grail of mapping. Go figure.) and just from what I heard, those expectation were pretty much fullfilled and nothing else.

jakal1976
03-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Tried the single player,to check the map and I must say I liked it a lot although I got lost just one time and dying on the last part because I ran outta ammo of the gl at the las moment(they got me at the bottom of the heli ladder ...hahaha) I managed the 2nd time rushing through

But I must say I found myself thinking that in versus some parts of the map are way unbalanced!Gonna be a massacre hehehe


I liked it basically...and I must admit that perhaps we are used to
gettin free stuff but look at Activision with Blops,they are charging 15 bucks for 4 crappy maps + zombie one...so we should be greatful they continue supporting and giving us free dlc which enhances the game furthermore.

OwMyToe
03-23-2011, 09:41 AM
The bots hated it. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/OwMyToe/screenshot/577792446738716157) I thought it was pretty funny, however ;)

Streaksy
03-23-2011, 10:11 AM
The only rule should be "be honest", even if it's all bad. Truth is truth, and Valve can't work with anything less that the truth. Of course it's not going to be all bad in this case. :P They're trying to make a great product with quality that corrolates with profit, not get pats on the back.

So, I say, be honest, even if it SEEMS like an angry rant. :P They need to know how people feel, even if it's a minority case. ;D

Josabooba
03-23-2011, 10:14 AM
...
Be Appreciative, you're not paying extra...

Entirely agree!

Black Jesus
03-23-2011, 10:49 AM
It doesn't seem like the designer(s) have any idea how vs works. The place has many long and fairly open areas where the infected are presented only two or three very easily predictable spawn points, all of which the survivors can drift away from to heavily negate any damage you'll deal. Then, on the other hand, there are spots where you're pretty much 100% going to get a kill and there's nothing the survivors can do about it. I don't know about you, but I don't think its good design where the infected can't do jack until they get to a point which is CLEARLY designed for them, and they then get a few 'freebie' death chargers / smokes / jockeys. It just makes the play seem cheesie and bland, as there is no real skill involved because you have everything handed to you.

As the survivors, random hordes feel really unbalanced. Due to how the common spawn in a 360, and the lack of melee, a bad random horde just spells instant defeat. I realize that random hordes are supposed to be just that: random hordes that make it harder to play, but it seriously seems like random hordes are basically going to be the make or break thing in vs. "Oh, we're getting swarmed by 40 free zombies inspite of them having a hunter, smoker, charger, and spitter. Good talk guys, but we're through because we've got no walls to back up against."

In terms of bugs, my MAIN gripe is that the stream does NOT put out tanks, making it quite difficult to be one effectively due to the lack of cover you can utilize to sneak forwards. Yes, if the survivors get crushed by the rock / stand next to it, stuff will get ugly, but if they go down the river bed a ways the tank really has no choice but to try and charge down the corridor of death at them. Spitter goo also seems to dissapear in most areas around the stream, you don't insta die from getting charged off of the giant bridge (wtf?), the infected CANNOT leave the finale safe room until the survivors do, but they CAN spawn in it and attack them. This is nothing to say with the absolute horrible collision that the map has.

Now, a bit on design. The map has way to many doodads and just flat out random stuff everywhere. It quite literally reminds me of a starwars prequal / re-visited original. It seems like the designer doesn't realize that having a billion random things crammed everywhere does not make gameplay, or even viewing interesting. There is just so much random little crap on this map that it grates my nerves.

All in all the campaign reminds me of Two Evil Eyes. Poorly thought out, and even more poorly implemented, with lots of random and unneeded stuff thrown in for no reason other than to make ADD ridden 12 year old brains explode with joy.

TrapperKeeper
03-23-2011, 10:52 AM
More directional signs could be useful, especially on the first chapter.

Played through the first 2 chapters single player, then jumped into a realism vs game. Huge mistake. Neither team made it far on realism vs. Maybe that would change once we understood the levels better, but I still get the feeling that compared to other maps the 'linear-ness' of this map gives SI a huge advantage. Also, on what I believe is the 3rd chapter when you climb out of the hole to start the map, it seems way to easy to insta-kill someone with a charger. Clear line from top of ladder to death in the water.

On the Finale, I can't say I really understood why we were going to a downed helicopter. We didnt finish obviously, so I dont know what the escape mechanism is but making your way to a crashed chopper doesnt make much sense in terms of looking for escape.

Comatrix
03-23-2011, 10:55 AM
Good campaign, the only thing is often reminds me "I Hate Mountains" campaign

- a forest full of pinetrees
- a road with an evacuation traffic jam along a river.
- an emergency call where we see a helicopter coming and crash.

Did you guys inspire from it?

Bindal
03-23-2011, 11:05 AM
All in all the campaign reminds me of Two Red Eyes. Poorly thought out, and even more poorly implemented, with lots of random and unneeded stuff thrown in for no reason other than to make ADD ridden 12 year old brains explode with joy.
I think you mean "2 Evil Eyes" and not "2 Red Eyes" and it's not a surprise that it reminds you of it as it's the same mapper behind it.

Mambini
03-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I would like to say one thing..

Can you do better ?

If yes, please show us your glorious map.
If no, please..shut up.

We all know Valve as a special touch on stuff but the mapper behind this is doing a great job and should be cheered.

You wanted new content ? Here you go.

You want DLC ? It will come.

You don't want 3 maps campaigns ? Take it.

You want 3 maps campaigns ? Don't play it.

One thing is for sure, people are never satisfied. NEVER.

KieranMitchell
03-23-2011, 11:09 AM
I think you mean "2 Evil Eyes" and not "2 Red Eyes" and it's not a surprise that it reminds you of it as it's the same mapper behind it.

LMFAO! Yeppers thats one thing I dont like about CS, too much like 2EE. Ive also noticed that in every campaign that mapper contributes to, you always find some kind of......vegetative/swampy area. Theres lots more to zombies than swamps. I want to see a stunning urban campaign that will blow me away. DBD is certainly on the right track, if anything deserved to become official, its that.

ball2hi
03-23-2011, 11:12 AM
The map is well down, but this map points out (More then any other map, due to the rocks.) the CONSTANT bugs in this game. These bugs happen a lot, on every other map. This map though they're much more noticeable because of the rocks causing increase / decrease in elevation. I've had a hunter pounce a friend, I shoved the hunter off my friend and was IMMEDIATELY clawed for 40 damage (Playing Realism Expert) because the hunter "Dropped" in elevation because of the river rocks. I'm not talking about the big rocks u can jump on, I'm talking about the rocks constantly in your path of the river. With no way to go around them.

I dont mind the release of new content, but valve needs to fix all of these bugs (Including the jesus spots that are pretty much in every map.) FIRST before releasing new content.

Add on bugging infected that have pure bull♥♥♥♥ mechanics. So many bugs in this game that give the SI an advantage over the survivors that need to be fixed. Me, I can only play Realism Expert because anything lower is just too easy for me, Versus is fine but half the time our team make up is horrid and we are losing by miles, or vice versa.

Hunter Bugs:

I've deadstopped many hunters, both in L4D, and now in L4D2. Half the time when I "Deadstop" a hunter, they're knocked back, INTO me, like they were knocked from behind into me.

I've deadstopped hunters, where they then play the knocked back animation but somehow still CLAW me while they're tumbling back. I've had times where I've Deadstopped one, then shoved him again after the deadstop to make sure he's knocked back, AND he still claws me.
If you deadstop a hunter while on a ledge of something, like on top of a box, or w/e and they drop down in any elevation (Not counting stairs) they immediately claw you. IE. I'm standing on the edge of the usual fight spot in No mercy (To the right, of the Mini-gun.) and a hunter jumps at me. I shove him, and he falls off the ledge I'm on, and quickly claws me while he's playing the knockback animation.


Jockey Bugs:

They have the ability to claw while knocked back, just like the hunter.
Since your FAILED attempts to balance Versus, he's the most overpowered infected I've ran into in RE. He's the ONLY infected (Not even tanks, or witches, ect.) in which I try to heavily avoid. If I hear one down the hallway, I'll probably back up and let the team go forward. It's impossible to deadstop one, because either way you're going to take damage:

1. You shove as they jump, or when their model gets near you. They land and ride you anyways, dealing INSTANT damage, and in half a second dealing another chunk of damage. Thank you versus balance.

2. You manage to shove them back when they jump at you, too bad he some how clawed you mid-air so you still took damage.

3. You manage to shove them back when they jump at you, too bad he just clawed you while he's shoved. You still took damage.


Thanks to their VERSUS balancing of him, he'll jump at a survivor instantly dealing damage, and if they're immediately incapped (Not enough health) they'll claw someone nearby as soon as they land. I've ran into a time where he instantly incapped my team mate with his jump, then IMMEDIATELY jumped on me.

Same deal with the hunter, if they're knocked back and their elevation changes (Falls) they immediately claw while knocked back.

Charger Bugs:
Do I even need to point out this obvious bug? When he charges and misses, he'll be stunned against an object that they hit (Naturally) but still claw any nearby survivors that are standing next to him even while stunned.


Common Infected:
If they're climbing over an object (IE Car.) and they climb/jump down to get you, if you knock them back they wont play the animation, nor will they be knocked back as they proceed to bash your skull in.
The infamous "Stuck in object" glitch. Where they get stuck in some object, trashcan, door, wall, table, chair, ect. and become un-shoveable as they continue to beat you senseless.


Oh look, I just played an entire campaign and had EVERY single one of these bugs affect me or my team mates. These aren't "Once in a while" bugs, they happen all the time...

marve
03-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Well, Cold Stream has so many glitches. It's a joke. I get a lot of people asking me to remove it from my server.

And yes it's free, so we shouldn't complain right? Wrong. I mean there are soooooooo many great community campaigns out there which are almost 100% bug free that nobody plays because ppl don't bother to download them or don't know how, so why not include one of those like every month? This would keep the game alive. Why include such a buggy campaign when there are so much great ones that are hardly being played?

ball2hi
03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Well, Cold Stream has so many glitches. It's a joke. I get a lot of people asking me to remove it from my server.

And yes it's free, so we shouldn't complain right? Wrong. I mean there are soooooooo many great community campaigns out there which are almost 100% bug free that nobody plays because ppl don't bother to download them or don't know how, so why not include one of those like every month? This would keep the game alive. Why include such a buggy campaign when there are so much great ones that are hardly being played?
I don't care about MAP bugs, it's in the beta. It's the fact that the GAME is buggy/glitching and ISN'T in the beta but hasn't been fixed yet. Read my poorly done lists for a run down of the bugs.

Black Jesus
03-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I would like to say one thing..

If yes, please show us your glorious map.
If no, please..shut up.


This is a thread where we're supposed to voice our opinions :confused: You don't need to be able to be able to create something in order to critique it. Most game critics themselves cannot code / create games, art critics are unable to create masterful works of art, movie critics are not great actors... ect. The fact is that constructive criticism as well as negative feedback are VERY important for the developement of a skill in order to fix any issues that you have. It may not be exceptionally fun to recieve, but it helps.

I think you mean "2 Evil Eyes" and not "2 Red Eyes" and it's not a surprise that it reminds you of it as it's the same name.
Ah yes, thanks. I knew it was the same guy, just got the names confused. ~_~pper behind it.[/QUOTE]




One thing is for sure, people are never satisfied. NEVER.

This is true, but in this case it seems justifed. While the map is nice to look at (if stupidly cluttered imo), it is quite poorly thought out. A lot of it doesn't make sense, and as my post stated its absolutelly horrifyingly bad for VS from every angle. There are -much- better mappers / mapping teams that Valve could have gotten to make a community campaign, I think that is why myself and others are fairly annoyed with this map.

source-maps
03-23-2011, 11:30 AM
black jesus, it's a one man job that does this as a hobby.. valve does this probably as an experiment to get more custom content to the game.. I just think everyone should just wait and see and lower the expectations ffs :p ..

btw, people can't see the long term meaning to this, other mappers in the future have a chance of getting their campaign added to the game.. which will make the game that > | | more attractive to make content for.. thus increasing the amount of community made content and the quality, because intermediate mappers that didn't want to waste their time on a small community based game before will now get interested in getting their work promoted.

Buick72
03-23-2011, 11:34 AM
My only real complaint aside from the map layout was the number of spots where commons became un-pushable. Especially in river beds. You could shove as much as you wanted but they stood right there. There were a lot of these spots in the first map alone. On the fallen tree you cross, and on rocks in the river. There were also spots where if you shoved a special, he would stumble/slide all the way up the hill next to you, and hit the top ready to pounce again. Annoying to dead stop a hunter and have it be pushed 100 feet away only to be on you a split second later because you can't shove again.

On the finale, the commons spawn in bad places. I cleared out all the ones around me then 10 more spawned behind the tiny tree right next to me so I was never clear for more than 2 feet. Even with good team cover the commons just kept spawning right next to us. I ended up letting myself get boomed so my team could run for it, and even then the commons spawned ahead of them behind 1 tree and tried to push through them to get me.

The finale doesn't end if one person is incapped and the rest are on the chopper, like most finales. So the tank can climb up the ladder and punch everyone out. Annoying to make it to the end on expert only to have everyone die even though one guy sacrificed himself so they could make it.

Overall, it's a good looking map, and I see potential in it once the bugs are ironed out.

Though when playing it I can't help but think it feels more like one of those performance tests to see how well your PC runs the game, than an actual campaign. Like the CS:S one that monitors your pc performance while you sit on rails watching different effects. Like fire, reflections, water etc.
It felt like I should be on rails watching all this stuff happen instead of playing it.

Black Jesus
03-23-2011, 11:41 AM
black jesus, it's a one man job that does this as a hobby..Hobby or not, this just seems like a really poor choice to pick. I understand hobbies, for my hobby I do table-top warhammer. I'm actually fairly adept at conversions, as well as a rather skilled painter - but I wouldn't allow my models to be 'featured' by anything official, as they're nowhere near good enough. Once again, just because this is someones hobby does not mean we should not critique it. The fact is that this is being released to the community as official content, and is there for subject to the same standards as the other maps.

btw, people can't see the long term meaning to this, other mappers in the future have a chance of getting their campaign added to the game.. which will make the game that > | | more attractive to make content for.. thus increasing the amount of community made content and the quality, because intermediate mappers that didn't want to waste their time on a small community based game before will now get interested in getting their work promoted.

Yes, I grasp the implications that this will inspire more people to design content again, and that it could lead to more maps being featured. However, this is a thread set up to state our opinions of Cold Creek. I stated mine, that its a subpar map which has very little thought put into it for the multiple styles of play this game offers. I realize that its in beta, but realisticly you know as well as I that the odds of any real map changes beyond a few more boulders is highly unlikely.

No offense, but I really wish that people could post negative feedback in opinion threads without having to go into detail about what feedback is ,and why its good to recieve :o . Its not like I came in here and called the guy a horrible map maker who should never do any work again, should jump of a bridge, and be tortured in the depths of hell for being picked over better ones. I just stated that I don't like the map, think its kind of silly, and that it was rushed with very little thought given.

bluz74
03-23-2011, 11:46 AM
However, this is a thread set up to state our opinions of Cold Creek.

I see the problem....you're playing the wrong campaign! :D

Black Jesus
03-23-2011, 11:50 AM
I see the problem....you're playing the wrong campaign! :D

Witty and funny, but it doesn't refute my points.

devilbunny
03-23-2011, 11:51 AM
First off, THANK YOU to the mappers and Valve for more free zombie-stomping goodness. This campaign is obviously a labor of love.

After twice on SP and once on VS, I am quite impressed with the level of detail and graphical polish. I agree with others about the need for more visual cues as to map flow -

1. at the very beginning on the left turn up the bank, where the path looks very much like the rest of the forest. How about a couple wooden steps or a gravel texture?

2. on the bridge at the last barricade. There's a misleading gap in the vehicles that looks jumpable, and I hate for anyone to know how long I tried to jump through. I found the scaffolding very hard to spot. How about a big painted arrow?

3. at the finale in the big field. I found the field very flat and square, and had no idea for a long time where I was supposed to go.

As for atmosphere, I would like to see more origins for those zombies, particularly during the canyons before the finale. I don't understand where they came from. How about the backs of buildings, or the fenced-off edge of a trailer park?

Overall, loads of fun and I look forward to the next release.

Un4gvn
03-23-2011, 11:52 AM
The only rule should be "be honest", even if it's all bad.

Streaksy's thread had a really good chapter by chapter critique. It's not all good, but not all bad. Hopefully Valve will listen and make amends.

source-maps
03-23-2011, 11:57 AM
'Why didn't Valve pick a better mapper?' has nothing to do with critique, it's just rather annoying.. you are basically saying that this decent mapper.. not perfect, doesn't deserve a great opportunity like this just because Valve didn't pick your favorite

commenting on the bugs or layout in a negative way is a good thing tho
that's just the way I see it

Un4gvn
03-23-2011, 12:03 PM
I would like to see more origins for those zombies, particularly during the canyons before the finale. I don't understand where they came from. How about the backs of buildings, or the fenced-off edge of a trailer park?


This has bugged me since L4D. Once I saw a hoard of zombies pop out from behind a couch in No Mercy. Not likely! I like DevilBunny's idea of the trailer park. Trailer trash zombies!

(Oops, no ofense to trailer dwellers; I'm one too.)

The Hop Goblin
03-23-2011, 12:10 PM
I found that in certain places (after you drop down from the bridge and past the yacht), that entities (bots, survivors, SI, players, etc) can stand on air near the really large boulders.

The rescue chopper should have mounted 50's or perhaps an M60 or two for use. Just seems right.

Tyrant vs Tank
03-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Honest opinion

Map 1 - Liked the scenary but a bit too short
Map 2 - Very long and a bit repetitive but I liked the choke points
Map 3 - My favorite map even if its tacky. Its an infected choke point heaven
Map 4 - Bit uneven.

Needs work, unlike all the people who have already made their mind up well ahead of time. I think it has potential to be the greatest infected choke point campaign in history, quite possibly. Or a real dud if not improved on.

Un4gvn
03-23-2011, 12:13 PM
The rescue chopper should have mounted 50's or perhaps an M60 or two for use. Just seems right.

Right-O! Big door guns sound good.

MustardJeep
03-23-2011, 12:59 PM
by source-mapsbtw, people can't see the long term meaning to this, other mappers in the future have a chance of getting their campaign added to the game.. which will make the game that > | | more attractive to make content for.. thus increasing the amount of community made content and the quality, because intermediate mappers that didn't want to waste their time on a small community based game before will now get interested in getting their work promoted.

Oh yes buddy I can see the long term meaning of this......

F.Y.I. what follows is a rant not something specifically targeting source-maps. I'm just carrying some left over hate from Valve including fan content in TF2 with the "Mannconomy"

Valve will proudly announce the left 4 dead store where community ware's will be sold for a profit, and all the various hammer legion mappers and model makers making a hash out of TF2 will make their way here in joy over yet another source game they can try to make money off of. Can you say dollar med packs you can use twice, a eight barrel "phantasm" shotty, a personal favorite the boomer raincoat.

You see a beta is cute and all but for valve to add it as a "official" part of the download that updates the client whether we want the map or not is horrendous. I'll "this" just about every problem mentioned in this thread but valve will do what ever it wants at the end of the day. Yes its a fan doing the mapping but valve is doing the promoting so all I really feel is sorry for the poor guy. There is no way even the horrible collision issues can be fixed inside six months and he's got to face his broken work exposed in every l4d2 client. That's a lot of hate, and a lot of people that will write it off long before he's done; unless of course you think valve will push revisions out as he makes them.
</rant>

Fix the collisions so you can always shove the common zombies.
Fix the unclear paths, a splash of blood a safe room spray, something to draw the eye on the right way to go.
Fix and by fix I mean REMOVE the god forsaken collisions on the tops of the stream banks. (These are zombie only areas yet the nice flat continuous banks are so heavily broken up by rock tree and shrub collisions that it might as well be in eight or nine parts you can't move between.)

source-maps
03-23-2011, 01:33 PM
everything is a conspiracy to destroy the game somehow nowadays

Buick72
03-23-2011, 01:43 PM
Honest opinion


Needs work, unlike all the people who have already made their mind up well ahead of time. I think it has potential to be the greatest infected choke point campaign in history, quite possibly. Or a real dud if not improved on.

I agree completely. I think it has a lot of potential if polished right, and the bugs are dealt with. I still need to try it on VS as I only played it on expert/advanced yesterday. Though I saw some really good choke points for the infected while playing it.


everything is a conspiracy to destroy the game somehow nowadays

Your denial of a conspiracy is proof of a conspiracy!

Bindal
03-23-2011, 01:44 PM
everything is a conspiracy to destroy the game somehow nowadays
Maybe not to destroy the game but... It's kinda obvious. They probably won't release a "CEDA Store" or something like that, but it's clear that currently, L4D2 has no real way to add canon-campaigns to itself for the L4D2-crew and they have to use community-content to safe themselves some time for the non-canon-content but still can say "Look, we still care about that game and deliver content" desprite they basicly do nothing more than copy-and-paste existing content into the game. Or in this case, let someone create it while they do it. (And everyone yells in joy. That's sad.)
L4D1 on the other hand DOES offer those options at some points - so Valve seems to avoid that so they don't need to think about new story-parts for the L4D1-crew.

Hivomnomnom
03-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Very first level in the beginning has too little placed for infected to spawn. You can't hide behind foliage because it's not considered solid. If we could just get a little more infected room that'd be great.

No other problems to report of.

Tranix
03-23-2011, 02:07 PM
I thought it was pretty bad. Open areas, followed by terrible chokepoints. The finale, the SI can attack when still in the saferoom, it showed the crash and we came back from that freelook we all had 30 hp and were getting attacked by the infected team. Overall one of the worst campaigns ive played. Also why cant you spawn in the foliage like you could in L4D1? Played it once...I think thats good enough for me. I don't like to complain about campaigns much, but this one really took the cake. <3

CrimsonLucent
03-23-2011, 02:11 PM
I can probably list 100 reasons why Cold Stream sucks. Then again, I don't want to play it again to write it down.

engineer123
03-23-2011, 02:15 PM
CS Stream is solid atm but also nothing more.
What I'm mostly worried about this big promoted campaign, is that the lacks of it are not even the "usual" beta bugs like glichtes and graphical things. The lacks come from the overall mediocre map 1 and map 2.
I wrote a feedback review in the sub-forum:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1806439

MustardJeep
03-23-2011, 02:20 PM
CEDA store.....That's kinda cute better then Mann-store anyway. :lol:

It's not all a conspiracy to destroy the game but Valve isn't known for experimenting just for the sake of it. Community Mappers made something like $45,000.00 in profit off of people buying junk from the TF2 store. Every single one of those mappers defends their right to enjoy the fickle finger of Valve and the profit there in. You don't have to buy after all.....

And in all honesty I just managed to finish the last map on the campaign i didn't beat last night. The TAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKK SLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW motion bit is enough that I will never ever play that map again. It took on the order of fifteen to twenty seconds to throw a bile bomb I already had loaded and aimed at the tank.

To be completely fair the campaign is overall fun but it has the same issues as his previous campaigns. The parts that shine are really well done, but for the most part are revisions of pre-existing areas. In Cold Stream you can see Swamp Fever, Blood Harvest, and Crash Course as recognizable influences. Things like the clickables either not working or needing to be clicked multiple times until the game catches it are just plain bad. Add to that a total lack of path markers in the beta release to show directions the players can go and it's just a waste of time.

Over all I am going to skip Cold Stream till it's finished.

aLLCAPS!
03-23-2011, 02:39 PM
provide the community with free add-ons, updates, and they're very generous to provide continued free content/support. Lot of companies(EA for example) out there, sells a game, its dead with maybe 1 or 2 additional add-ons within 6 months.

Fully agreed. Thanks Valve.

advarp
03-24-2011, 03:52 AM
Fully agreed. Thanks Valve.

Only one thing - DO NOT push a beta in my l4d2 client please - let me download it... can I remove it now until its done ? How ? F*S...

POOTDISPENSER
03-24-2011, 05:03 AM
At the part where a message, "Beware of strong currents" nothing happened (lol). I agree with the other posters that more directional indicators is needed. Slopes need to be more visible.

The areas where the Special Infected tend to spawn is predictable and sometimes, out of place.

And who (or what) caused the first rescue helicopter to crash?

The map is definitely impressive, I felt immersed in it. The woods aren't repetitive to look at, definitely a plus in my book. There are a few smart sequences, like the shaky wooden steps (prelude to Tank).

The map takes a lot of effort to make and I say it's very well done.

wootin
03-24-2011, 05:19 AM
It doesn't seem like the designer(s) have any idea how vs works. The place has many long and fairly open areas where the infected are presented only two or three very easily predictable spawn points, all of which the survivors can drift away from to heavily negate any damage you'll deal. Then, on the other hand, there are spots where you're pretty much 100% going to get a kill and there's nothing the survivors can do about it. I don't know about you, but I don't think its good design where the infected can't do jack until they get to a point which is CLEARLY designed for them, and they then get a few 'freebie' death chargers / smokes / jockeys. It just makes the play seem cheesie and bland, as there is no real skill involved because you have everything handed to you.

As the survivors, random hordes feel really unbalanced. Due to how the common spawn in a 360, and the lack of melee, a bad random horde just spells instant defeat. I realize that random hordes are supposed to be just that: random hordes that make it harder to play, but it seriously seems like random hordes are basically going to be the make or break thing in vs. "Oh, we're getting swarmed by 40 free zombies inspite of them having a hunter, smoker, charger, and spitter. Good talk guys, but we're through because we've got no walls to back up against."

In terms of bugs, my MAIN gripe is that the stream does NOT put out tanks, making it quite difficult to be one effectively due to the lack of cover you can utilize to sneak forwards. Yes, if the survivors get crushed by the rock / stand next to it, stuff will get ugly, but if they go down the river bed a ways the tank really has no choice but to try and charge down the corridor of death at them. Spitter goo also seems to dissapear in most areas around the stream, you don't insta die from getting charged off of the giant bridge (wtf?), the infected CANNOT leave the finale safe room until the survivors do, but they CAN spawn in it and attack them. This is nothing to say with the absolute horrible collision that the map has.

Now, a bit on design. The map has way to many doodads and just flat out random stuff everywhere. It quite literally reminds me of a starwars prequal / re-visited original. It seems like the designer doesn't realize that having a billion random things crammed everywhere does not make gameplay, or even viewing interesting. There is just so much random little crap on this map that it grates my nerves.

All in all the campaign reminds me of Two Evil Eyes. Poorly thought out, and even more poorly implemented, with lots of random and unneeded stuff thrown in for no reason other than to make ADD ridden 12 year old brains explode with joy.

+1, I agree with all of these points (except the TEE one, I haven't played it). I'll add that having horde in the woods is just out of place - the only things that numerous in the woods are squirrels. (I have to say it would be hysterical to watch survs being mobbed by a horde of infected squirrels tho). I'd say losing the random horde and shortening the special inf spawn time by like half would make this a lot more fun in VS.

Re the fixed spawn and guaranteed ambush spots, it takes the challenge out for both inf and survs. The unavoidable deathcharge when climbing out of the sewer to the bridge is an instant quit for whoever gets killed - nobody's going to stay for the whole map after dying in the first two minutes with no chance of rez.

My main wish is that they'd let cover such as trees and brush allow infected spawns. The survivors can't actually see you, so it works for gameplay, and that would make the entire woods experience one big VS spawn spot, allowing the inf team the flexibility to set up their ambushes wherever they want.

Edit: some appreciation back. I do like the look of the map, and the variety of the experience is great. Thanks to the creator for all of the hard work that went into making it!

Halo572
03-24-2011, 10:36 AM
All for more maps, but it has no soul. It doesn't feel right and it doesn't have the spark of any of the official maps.

Continuity is a major problem, all of the chapters flow, and whilst I understand this wouldn't it still just seemed to be 'drop the characters into the wilderness with zombies'. Ditto for a myriad other scenario you care to imagine but don't actually make any sense.

I have only played it once and was confused by the characters continually shouting get to the boat. What boat? Oh, there isn't one. So I guess get to the chopper and elevator were also red herrings.

The specials get stuck on the rocks and spawn too frequently and the constant stream of infected adds up to desperation as spamming is its only trick. There is no skill in spamming, it just suggests lack of imagination.

I made it to the bridge and then it crashed before that loaded and I really cannot be bothered again.

In our great Steam democracy you have the choice to play this map or not, I will not until it is finished and then likely just once to see how it evolved.

It reminded me of the free map for BF2 Highway Tampa that Intel developed as an advert. No soul there and one of my least favourite BF2 maps. Just because it is free doesn't mean you have to play it or like it.

But, any other maps they want to develop, fine by me, please just make sure they have that spark the official ones do.

Dr.Boo.j2
03-24-2011, 10:43 AM
I made an in-depth thread about Cold Stream in the Cold Stream subforum but if I may give my advice: I think this campaign is really well done.
Yes it has bugs and needs work but remember it's a beta. It's actually not a bad idea from Valve to let us, the players, be the testers. Remember when everyone said how "the ones who playtested L4D2 before release are stupid and don't know anything about gameplay"?
Well this time Valve asks us to test it. Isn't that what lots of people wanted?

And I'm glad they asked Matthew. He's talented, probably much more than I am and he's a very friendly person. He's also modest and modesty is a quality I really appreciate in someone.

MADDOGGE
03-24-2011, 10:56 AM
The later flooded areas are great, but impossible to ever reach in versus.That part I really liked as I did the bridge. The only thing I thought silly on the bridge is after the tanker blows most all the SI an CI jump to their deaths through the hole. The bots hang way back until the horde comes and fight that and then after finishing them off come forward to where I am on top of some truck taking out the few coming from the other way across the gapping hole in the bridge.:confused:

CrimsonLucent
03-24-2011, 11:06 AM
How about we all just agree the campaign is garbage and should be removed from the game?

That's 500 MB on my harddrive which I can use in order to listen to more music.

EyTschej
03-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Well, so we have a new campaign - and then what? You make it to the final fight, win - and never play the campaign again. Why didn't Cold Stream come with one or two new Scavenge maps? I know that L4D2 is mainly a co-op game, but Scavenge introduced that missing fun multiplayer mode that the first game was missing. A 500 MB patch without any new Scavenge map - that's disappointing. I hope there will be one or two Scavenge map once this campaign is no longer beta.

Tabbernaut
03-24-2011, 11:55 AM
As far as the aesthetics go, I'd recommend the author to take a look at maps from campaigns such as I Hate Mountains. That's a great example of how to make a convincing rock/forest environment that's neither ugly nor too unrealistic -- all without copying Swamp Fever.
The stream graphics could look a lot better on sub-high shader levels, too -- and they'd probably look better if made more subtle.

Dr.Boo.j2
03-24-2011, 12:49 PM
Well, so we have a new campaign - and then what? You make it to the final fight, win - and never play the campaign again. Why didn't Cold Stream come with one or two new Scavenge maps? I know that L4D2 is mainly a co-op game, but Scavenge introduced that missing fun multiplayer mode that the first game was missing. A 500 MB patch without any new Scavenge map - that's disappointing. I hope there will be one or two Scavenge map once this campaign is no longer beta.
FFS when will people understand that this is a beta. They're not gonna release Scavenge maps for a beta version. I suppose they'll release Scavenge maps from this campaign once it's final.

Black Jesus
03-24-2011, 12:54 PM
FFS when will people understand that this is a beta. They're not gonna release Scavenge maps for a beta version. I suppose they'll release Scavenge maps from this campaign once it's final.

To be fair, scavange maps are generally modified versions of a map or two in the campaign. With that said, they tend to be lightly to heavily modified, and given the fact that all of the maps in Cold Stream are flat out straight lines in terms of progression, they're going to have to heavily modify a map, or just put a new one in all together. With that said, there are sure to be tons more bugs to go with what will essentially be a completely new map level, and it sure would be smart to beta test it.

Also I think a lot of us do realize its beta, but we also realize that no major changes to the terrain will be done. I'd expect, at most, a few random decaying walls / boulders / tree lines to be thrown in to help infected spawns. That would help, but what the map really needs is to be completely redesigned with infected spawning in mind, as currently its just awful.

Phaseshifter
03-24-2011, 01:00 PM
The bridge whilst being interesting will be a nightmare on Versus - a half competent Infected team will wipe out the Survivors every time.

The first attack will hurt, but after that, you can cross while they respawn.

Let's not play violin for the survivors. I'd rather make it harder then adjust it, then have it too easy and staying that way.

[HH]Boz
03-24-2011, 01:09 PM
I have some more thoughts on how to make CS better. This would be from a Vs POV as I don't play campaign, but might apply to either..

1. Whenever you are in the water, if you move w/ the stream's current it should speed you up a bit and when ever you move against the current it should slow you down. Make going back to save budddies interesting. This effect would change as the current changes. Would love to see the end of map 2(?) be more dangerous right before you go down the stairs to the safe room. Make it a bit harder and more interesting to get into the door way on the right.
2. Water should put the tank out if he gets lit.
3. Slow-mo removed from Vs, it is ok in Campaign.
4. The whole final needs to be scrapped for some other idea. The chopper cut scene is kinda cool, but what is the point? The run to the 2nd chopper is not good by any means, it is the weakest part of the campaign at this point. Every final has some sort of circumstances that have to be met as you wait for rescue. There needs to be something along these lines.

jonnyohio
03-24-2011, 01:11 PM
I've played the first three maps so far, and it is a great campaign. The scenery and flowing water looks fantastic. I like how the vegetation is there but it is not over done as it is on other custom campaigns I've played. The only thing it needs is polished from what I have seen so far-- some directions would be nice in certain areas (like on the bridge after the truck blows up-- I wasn't sure what way to go, but a bot actually showed me how to get across).

I for one like the idea of climbing down the mast to the ground. It's scary, and in versus mode this area will be so fun. I played the first three in single player mode just to check it out quickly, and laughed when Ellis fell to his death at the mast. Fortunately there is a health kit/defib spawn there and I was able to revive him. Since it is close to the safe room, it doesn't matter anyway.

Needs some spawn closets and on mine there was no sound of rushing water, which would be really cool. I suspect that is going to be included though when it is finished. I'm actually surprised at how well the Beta runs. I expected more bugs than the ones that people are talking about. I really didn't run into any place where I got stuck, but when I play it again with friends we shall see.

Nice job! I look forward to this being an official part of the game.

Exinjeru
03-24-2011, 02:00 PM
I found Cold Stream just bland and uninteresting. The flowing water was a new feature but it was broken in places and there's no sound of a running river.
The cliffs are unrealistic just like in 2 evil eyes, penning in the players in a narrow corridor with angles that look like polygons instead of real rocks.
Special infected got stuck at least half the time, and our one bot in the group got stuck just as often and we left it behind several times.
The levels are basically just empty, there's nothing interesting to see, the only landmark that shows up is the highway and its random hordes of abandoned cars and the bridge which looks very blocky and undetailed.
The cutscene with the helicopter either crashes the game completely, or doesn't even work about 50% of the time.
Many more small glitches were experienced while playing a few times, but I'm not sure any bug fix will help.

Tanmccuin
03-24-2011, 02:06 PM
First off - thanks Valve, great game glad to see you still supporting it.

only played the last couple maps and in the last one ran into two big bugs.

1. On initial spawn, we all spawned OUTSIDE the starting area... with the door locked from the inside.

2. The helicopter never came... eventually we found a ladder to the sky. That led nowhere - once we got to the top, we randomly fell off an invisible edge, and after a long time, the campaign ended. I also randomly was set on fire.

I have screens if needed.

Again, thanks for continuing to support a great game!

Phaseshifter
03-24-2011, 04:37 PM
On the bridge where you have to climb down to the boat, there are no climbing surfaces for the special infected, so you can't climb back on the bridge.

djTeka
03-24-2011, 05:12 PM
I think it is a pretty good bunch of maps so far, but I have some problems.

On the beginning of the map 'c13m4_cutthroatcreek',
The bots won't take any health kits and I can't get out the exit door. I read something about cut-scenes, does that have anything to do with it?

I know that if it was being played with 3 other live people, there wouldn't be the issue with them not taking kits.
Would that allow the door to open, though?

I'd like to give a more complete review, but I can't give what I really think if I can't finish it. Please tell me if there's some trigger (besides the bar on the door, because that doesn't work for me) I missed in the safe room, because I can't find it.

Great job so far, though.

devilbunny
03-24-2011, 05:24 PM
I have also experienced the inability to climb into the finale chopper. SP. I was the first one there, but couldn't get on. I died, very sad.

I don't care for limited weapon pickups. I understand the logic, but it sets a negative tone among the survivors.

Wish the collision along the stream bed were a bit smoother. Jumping constantly just to get downstream.

Is the window that survivors have to jump out of too narrow for Chargers? I keep getting stuck.

Is there a conflict with Hunter sounds? I keep getting pounced without ever hearing them jump.

Love having a good melee weapon in those canyons. Last map is totally made for a bloody gibfest.

Robarino
03-24-2011, 06:19 PM
Me and some friend playing campaign hit the following issues:

- At the finale if multiple players climb up the ladder to the escape chopter at the same time we all get stuck. We have to crouch at the top of the ladder just to get into the chopper.

- There doesn't appear to be any respawn closets. When a survivor dies they have to wait until the next saferoom.


- After we entered the last saferoom before the finale and shut the door, one survivor was standing by the door. After the finale level loaded she spawned outside of the room and couldn't get in until we radioed the chopper.

Numerous route issues where we couldn't easily tell what direction to travel.

Zebra
03-24-2011, 07:01 PM
LOVE IT

FourTwenny
03-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Two things i would change for Versus Cold Stream are:

No forced walk across that log. Falling is punishment enough. Having to slowly walk across seems cool in campaign, but in versus we should have the choice to either walk or run across that log.

Ditch the explosive ammo.

JonTrueshot
03-24-2011, 07:27 PM
I already gave my feedback here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1808140

The campaign needs a lot of polishing before its ready.

Nick930
03-24-2011, 08:16 PM
This review was done playing "Expert Campaign Mode"

Pros:
-Beautiful Scenery and Craftsmanship
-Unique Lighting
-Unique Gameplay events
-creative gameplay areas
-Good Variety between maps
-Plentiful Ammo Piles (this can be a good or a bad thing)
-Funny text written in the saferooms
-The lighting blur at the start of map #2
-The water effect
-Ladder to climb up to the chopper

Cons:
-Common infected can get stuck on the rocks making it difficult to melee
-Common infected spawn too close to survivors in first map making it the hardest map
-Finale is way too difficult. I feel like a french fry being deep fried in a pan when i go down that first slope as all the zombies start pouring down onto me. The chainsaws make it easier but with this uneven terrain, the zombies can get caught a lot and hit boxes get screwed up
-A REDICULOUS amount of death charges. Clearly a map designed for versus players. Even I can get a death charge and I'm terrible at versus.
-The mast on the sailboat was just a silly idea... that needs to be replaced with.. an elevator..or something more logical.
-In map 2, when you blow up the side of the bridge near the ending, the bushes at the bottom of that slope block the visual path players need to take to continue. The main path needs to be made much more clear
-The finale, now that i think about it, doesn't make...any sense. How does using the radio crash a helicopter.. and what's the point of crashing the helicopter?
-After climbing out of the underground saferoom to the bridge, the area at the bottom of the bridge is WAY TOO EMPTY. If feels incomplete. There needs to be foliage, shrubs... flowers.. SOMETHING. It was easily the weakest part of the entire campaign. Even the hundreds of zombies standing around there couldnt fill the area.
-There NEEDS TO BE WATER EFFECT SOUNDS!
-I don't like how the title shows up on the map itself at the intro
-I don't like how you have to search through the rocks for your weapons at the beginning
-The opening cutscene is way too long



Great campaign, some minor bugs. Creative design. Fairly difficult. Took about an hour to finish with 3 restarts on that finale and one at map 2 because of the wierd loading bug that they apparantly patched today. I hope the review helps!

Phaseshifter
03-24-2011, 08:36 PM
Two things i would change for Versus Cold Stream are:

No forced walk across that log. Falling is punishment enough. Having to slowly walk across seems cool in campaign, but in versus we should have the choice to either walk or run across that log.

Ditch the explosive ammo.

I think it's meant to be a choke point.

Servbot
03-24-2011, 08:48 PM
Finally got the chance to play it. I hate to say it but I was really unsatisfied.

-Map 1 was boring and confusing
-Map 2 started great, but got really repetitive and confusing. The building filled with water at the end was great and I wish the entire map was designed around it instead of following the river.
-Map 3 was good. Perhaps the only map which I had little to no trouble with. Other than the sudden explosion at the bridge, unclear paths and cheesy slow motion it was good.
-Map 4 was boring. I liked having to climb great heights to get to the chopper, but I couldn't get in and died hanging in the air.

Other notes:
-Limited arsenal. I only found SPAS and SCAR during my playthrough.
-The (I believe) scripted Tank in map 2 would have been awesome, if the spot where he appears was at plain sight
-Same thing with the slow mo explosion in map 3. I didn't know what was happening until I looked around.
-The sudden explosion in map 3 was surprising. There should've been more cues that the bridge was getting bombed, or the explosion should happen earlier.
-Map 2 crescendo is a joke. Boring and not very memorable.

I guess there's more. But I should probably play it more times to decide.

The campaign's decent but it doesn't shine in anything except the beautiful scenery.

BlazingNova
03-24-2011, 09:00 PM
You want my honest opinion? It's really well done. It's a nice, new environment with some fresh events and a good use of the "Shakey mountain suddenly Tank".

It could use a few more land marks, as some of the directions are not really presented clearly. EG: You're in the hut, now what? The window doesn't break when you M2 it so I spent 5 mins looking for another solution, figuring that wasn't right. The explosion on the bridge, there's a gap on your side that it turns out you aren't meant to use but looks very much like you should. The mast on the sail boat is a little counter-intuitive and pretty much a death trap, which left me wandering around figuring I was wrong... Etc.

Other then that. It looks good, it plays well and it feels interesting. I like it.


I hate that mast :(. The only complaint I have is that there are several areas where it is beyond easy to escape the map / get to areas where zombies cant get you (god spots) most notably in the stream valley and on memorial bridge.