Loot/Item complaints

[lyravega]

I have a long list of complaints about the items, attributes and loot system. I'll try to keep it short

Loot system is auto-roll for items. It's OK for public games, but there should be something like need/greed/pass system - activated on public parties if all players agree, and default active for friends-only parties. This is somewhat necessary in my opinion, a good rare drops but you're the only player that can get the most benefit. But item goes to a friend of yours, who will eventually sell it. It works like this: You basically get a detailed loot overview similiar to shop interface, after completing a mission, and people can need/greed/pass over there - browsing whatever they really need, and passing/greeding whatever they don't. Also, it should contain "pass/greed all/whites/etc" options, speeding up the process.

Attributes now. Each class emphasises only one of the attributes. But there's a big difference between getting 20 dex and getting 200 critical rating - as dex effectively makes your abilities better. Those other attributes which are being treated as secondary and tertiary should provide little bonuses to your damage, and abilities aswell (for a dexterity based hero, critical/dodge would be secondary, others tertiary for example). There's a big difference between all dex dumped item setup and a mixture of stats.

Now, the items. The sole emphasis (not talking about PvP btw, PvE related this is) on your primary attribute make the item-loot generation system flawed. As item quality increases (not item level), they gain additional effects and attributes. But their bonuses over lesser quality ones are most of the time, worthless. Sometimes, same item level green item offers 30 dex, but higher item level purified item offers just 10 dex with other additional effects - and here is the flaw (again). +20 dex means a BIG difference for your abilities. I know those are the early levels, game may force you to get a balanced setup later on, at higher difficulties, but currently this is the situation.

thx 4 readin'

[TehJumpingJawa]

Rarified items having lower primary attributes, this may simply be a symptom of the level limit in the beta. Diablo 2 worked in the same way; for a given item level magic items could always get better quality mods than rares.

I also noticed the importance of your primary attribute tends to dominate builds.
Though having said that, a few +hp mods are often vital for most classes.

As you say, the full game may well require more balanced builds to be successful so this maybe a non-issue.

Rebalancing item mods will undoubtably continue long after the game's release; just look at Diablo 2 - they were still balancing 5 years after the game was released! (I can still remember the uber powerful rares on which it used to be possible to spawn the 'Ignores Target Defense' mod! Such items become collectors pieces once their spawn capability is removed)

[l3reak]

A lot of good points there. One thing I can say, though, is (as Jawa touched on) your non-class stats are still really useful. That is, Strength, Dex, and Mind. Another thing to consider is that even though a Ravager's abilities won't be powered up by having a high Mind, that Mind attribute is what the game uses when that Ravager uses a Tempest squad ability. So, if he has high Mind, he can more effectively use those squad abilities, which adds another twist to things.

I'm not sure on this, I haven't done a statistical analysis or anything, but I believe that the bonuses you get directly to secondary stats (crit, dodge, resist, HP, MP) are generally higher than the ones you would get from a similar leveled item that boosts your primary stat. For instance, for each Dex point you get 5 points of Dodge. At the same level, one piece of loot might give you 10 points of Dex, which would give you 50 points to Dodge, but if it has a specific bonus to Dodge, it might give you 100 points to Dodge instead.

I'm sure you're right that there's room for more tuning, though!

[lyravega]

I'm not sure on this, I haven't done a statistical analysis or anything, but I believe that the bonuses you get directly to secondary stats (crit, dodge, resist, HP, MP) are generally higher than the ones you would get from a similar leveled item that boosts your primary stat. For instance, for each Dex point you get 5 points of Dodge. At the same level, one piece of loot might give you 10 points of Dex, which would give you 50 points to Dodge, but if it has a specific bonus to Dodge, it might give you 100 points to Dodge instead.

Lets say, I have one of each heroes in my squad, composed of one ravager, sentinel and a tempest. Are you saying that, while playing with ravager, using sentinels squad ability, game will calculate the damage based on my ravager's mind attribute? Or, game will calculate the damage based on my tempest's mind attribute?

If that is the case, you are wrong. Tested - I'm playing with my ravager hero, and "just" focus on dexterity, leave mind as it is, tempest or sentinel abilities are calculated based on my ravager's dexterity score.

If this is a bug, it is a good bug. =P We have very few item slots, and a steep curve (both item & stat wise). Otherwise, going for all ravager or tempest (same in short) squads for getting full benefits from other hero abilities, and also to keep their ability power as high as possible at all times will be favored by many.

And just an idea about item/attribute balancing
Oh and if you provide secondary item slots (6 or 12 in total, smaller boxes above your primary item slots, has a toggle to hide on model), where equipped items will work at 33% or 25% power, and 0% for focused attribute, or a formula like that might encourage & help players to get a balanced build. (so a 10dex&str&mind item with 10% movement speed and 40 crit rating will give my ravager 3str&mind, 3% movement and 13 crit rating for example)

But as Jawa said, all might be just a simple symptom for beta.

[l3reak]

Lets say, I have one of each heroes in my squad, composed of one ravager, sentinel and a tempest. Are you saying that, while playing with ravager, using sentinels squad ability, game will calculate the damage based on my ravager's mind attribute? Or, game will calculate the damage based on my tempest's mind attribute?

If that is the case, you are wrong. Tested - I'm playing with my ravager hero, and "just" focus on dexterity, leave mind as it is, tempest or sentinel abilities are calculated based on my ravager's dexterity score.

If this is a bug, it is a good bug. =P We have very few item slots, and a steep curve (both item & stat wise). Otherwise, going for all ravager or tempest (same in short) squads for getting full benefits from other hero abilities, and also to keep their ability power as high as possible at all times will be favored by many.

And just an idea about item/attribute balancing
Oh and if you provide secondary item slots (6 or 12 in total, smaller boxes above your primary item slots, has a toggle to hide on model), where equipped items will work at 33% or 25% power, and 0% for focused attribute, or a formula like that might encourage & help players to get a balanced build. (so a 10dex&str&mind item with 10% movement speed and 40 crit rating will give my ravager 3str&mind, 3% movement and 13 crit rating for example)

But as Jawa said, all might be just a simple symptom for beta.

Sounds like a really interesting system! Probably too complicated to be added before release, but I do like the idea.

But anyway, yeah, it might be a bug. All I know is that the devs have stated that's how it's supposed to work. ;) It would be cool if you made a bug report for that!

[lyravega]

Reported.

[Jaheebus]

Reported.

??? :confused:

[AlteredGenesys]

I think he was referring to part of l3reak's message :) It had me confused, too.It would be cool if you made a bug report for that!

[lyravega]

Sorry about the confusion :P

[Burgi]

I have yet to hit 100-100 after chaining 4 levels, but if that item isnt for one of my favourite heroes i will release the kraken!
EDIT: That's a loot complaint^^

[lyravega]

Well, I've got 2 purified items, and they're -filter.exe- "utter bull♥♥♥♥".