radiation in food / sushi?

[meekle]

Has anyone looked into this? I know that in vancouver canada there has been traces of radiation in milk .. .. it kind of blows my mind considering it's kind of far from japan.

I also read that in Wisconsin in the usa they found radiation in spinach.... WTF?

I am especially interested in if I should be concerned with sushi fish. if anyone knows I'll be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[Dmytry]

Has anyone looked into this? I know that in vancouver canada there has been traces of radiation in milk .. .. it kind of blows my mind considering it's kind of far from japan.

Even more mind-blowing, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4944684.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4944684.stm)
Sheep farms in Scotland were affected by Chernobyl and the restrictions remained in place for 20 years. Granted, that's less than 3 000 km away while you guys are quite far from Japan and the cloud been spinning over the ocean for a while.


I also read that in Wisconsin in the usa they found radiation in spinach.... WTF?

I am especially interested in if I should be concerned with sushi fish. if anyone knows I'll be greatly appreciated.

thanks.
They are referring to radioactivity in food.
It really irks me how everyone confuses radiation with radioactivity. Something is radioactive when it produces radiation.
The radiation inside milk consists of radiation produced by milk (a little) and background radiation (a lot). The health effects depend greatly to which chemical elements are radioactive inside milk.
Some elements tend to concentrate in bones. Strontium for example. So the strontium-90, a long living radioactive isotope of strontium, stays in your bones and irradiates nearby tissues (bone marrow, in which it also tends to accumulate). That makes it more dangerous than isotopes of elements that do not remain in the body or decay quickly. The uptake also depends to which chemical compound strontium is in - if it is something thats not digestible, strontium will not get absorbed. The pollution standards for strontium-90 are much stricter than for isotopes that don't stay in your body. Some elements tend to concentrate in particular organs. For example, iodine concentrates in your thyroid, so the radioactive isotope of iodine of same level of radioactivity will give larger dose to thyroid and smaller dose to rest of the body. Different isotopes also have different half lifes, i.e. it takes different time for their radioactivity to decay. For example, it takes about 28 years for half of the strontium-90 atoms to decay, leaving you with half of the original amount - and another 28 years, quarter of the original amount.

In the fish for example - the strontium-90 may be present primarily in the bones, and the health effects would then depend to how the fish is cooked.
Then there is Caesium-137 which is bio-concentrated by mushrooms and everything that eats a lot of mushrooms - for example boars in germany.

They should of simply have ran a report on how the radioactivity of milk is detected and how hard it is to detect in presence of background. While there is no safe threshold for radiation - the extra cancer risk is proportional to radiation - there is a threshold whereby the extra cancer risk from not eating fresh vegetables is much larger than the extra cancer risk from radioactivity of the vegetables.

[~~ArdEnuff~~]

Depends on tht type of radioactivity. I don't think anything with more than a half life of 8 days (iodine 131) has been detected outside the plant.

[trojanrabbit.gg]

I think you should be more worried about the mercury levels in your sushi rather than the radiation level.

[chaplain_wu]

Because every ingredient in Sushi MUST have come from Japan...:rolleyes: Ridiculous.

I bet if a toxic spill happened in China everyone will stop eating Chow Mein. Same logic

[Europhoria]

I was eating sushi yesterday and I woke up with an extra arm so yeah, it's dangerous!!!!

[chaplain_wu]

I was eating sushi yesterday and I woke up with an extra arm so yeah, it's dangerous!!!!

Get your GF to eat sushi and maybe...

well, you know where this is going...

[Europhoria]

Get your GF to eat sushi and maybe...

well, you know where this is going...

Nah, I already got a girl on Mars for that.

[Shape]

Has anyone looked into this? I know that in vancouver canada there has been traces of radiation in milk .. .. it kind of blows my mind considering it's kind of far from japan.

I also read that in Wisconsin in the usa they found radiation in spinach.... WTF?

I am especially interested in if I should be concerned with sushi fish. if anyone knows I'll be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

Canadian inspection agency refuses to test milk for radiation
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canadian+inspection+agency+refuses+test+milk+radia tion/4548777/story.html

[meekle]

I suppose I am more wondering how far the radiation really is spreading? As an example could fish that is caught on the north American pacific shore contain radiation levels?

I really know nothing about this stuff so any info could help.

Also yes If people do know the safest bets as far as mercury levels that could help too.

thank you.

[razputin123]

I think you should be more worried about the mercury levels in your sushi rather than the radiation level.

So true! One of the many reasons I became a vegetarian...

[Shape]

I suppose I am more wondering how far the radiation really is spreading?We aren't getting any truthful information regarding this. Both cesium and iodine have already hit North America. Plutonium is also leaking from one of the reactors.

[Kanly]

We aren't getting any truthful information regarding this. Both cesium and iodine have already hit North America. Plutonium is also leaking from one of the reactors.

for plutonium to leak... it would have to be above 640 celsius (1180 F), as that's the melting point... I'll give you a clue, that's a bit below magma's temperature. As for iodine already hitting North America, do you realize that the particles hitting NA now are already past their half life?

it seems to me you're just buying into the scaremongering... do you perhaps watch too much fox news?

[GirlPower23]

for plutonium to leak... it would have to be above 640 celsius (1180 F), as that's the melting point... I'll give you a clue, that's a bit below magma's temperature. As for iodine already hitting North America, do you realize that the particles hitting NA now are already past their half life?

it seems to me you're just buying into the scaremongering... do you perhaps watch too much fox news?

He is Shape, they invented Tinfoil hats specifically for people like him. I'm sure he has a bomb shelter outside his home and thinks of every possible conspiracy there is.

[Shape]

As for iodine already hitting North America, do you realize that the particles hitting NA now are already past their half life?

Government Under Fire as Radiation Is Found in Milk, Rain
http://www.baycitizen.org/japan-disaster/story/government-under-fire-radiation-milk/2/

Radiation Found In San Francisco, CA Tap Water – 18,100% Above Drinking Water Limit
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/01/breaking-radiation-san-francisco-18100-drinking-water-limits-13014/

it seems to me you're just buying into the scaremongering... do you perhaps watch too much fox news?

Thankfully no, I don't get my news from television. Don't make light of this disaster..

He is Shape, they invented Tinfoil hats specifically for people like him. I'm sure he has a bomb shelter outside his home and thinks of every possible conspiracy there is.

...Wow. lol

You're sour.

[Europhoria]

...Wow. lol

You're sour.

She's a little sweet too if you get my drift. ;)

[GirlPower23]

...Wow. lol

You're sour.

Your right I am sour, you like to fearmonger, you did it with the oil spill thread.. now you are doing it with this disaster. As for the plutonium that was found, it was such a small insignificant amount that it wasn't anymore than normal nuclear fallout from the plant that they would normally find in the soil.. it wasn't even more from previous test results done by american experts in the past. This is what I mean by being a fearmonger.

She's a little sweet too if you get my drift. ;)

/stab

[Dmytry]

Government Under Fire as Radiation Is Found in Milk, Rain
http://www.baycitizen.org/japan-disaster/story/government-under-fire-radiation-milk/2/

Radiation Found In San Francisco, CA Tap Water – 18,100% Above Drinking Water Limit
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/01/breaking-radiation-san-francisco-18100-drinking-water-limits-13014/


I found that the EPA's limit on radioactive iodine in drinking water really is 3 pCi/L (http://www.epa.gov/superfund/health/contaminants/radiation/pdfs/iodine.pdf) which is 0.111 Bq/l which is crazy strict (1 atomic disintegration per 5 seconds in the whole litre). So technically there's little doubt you guys have well exceeded this limit.
HOWEVER this limit is set for the chronic exposure, as when you live next to a nuclear power plant. This pollution will be over soon, so it is not a huge deal. edit: for comparison, the Tokyo's limit for infants was 100 Bq/L which is almost 1000 times larger than EPA's limit lol.

[Shape]

Your right I am sour, you like to fearmonger, you did it with the oil spill thread.. now you are doing it with this disaster. As for the plutonium that was found, it was such a small insignificant amount that it wasn't anymore than normal nuclear fallout from the plant that they would normally find in the soil.. it wasn't even more from previous test results done by american experts in the past. This is what I mean by being a fearmonger.Gimmie a break, haven't been here in months, get over yourself..

I found that the EPA's limit on radioactive iodine in drinking water really is 3 pCi/L (http://www.epa.gov/superfund/health/contaminants/radiation/pdfs/iodine.pdf) which is 0.111 Bq/l which is crazy strict (1 atomic disintegration per 5 seconds in the whole litre). So technically there's little doubt you guys have well exceeded this limit.
HOWEVER this limit is set for the chronic exposure, as when you live next to a nuclear power plant. This pollution will be over soon, so it is not a huge deal.Good news then, I want to see them get those leaks and whatnot sealed.

[meekle]

I am going to sleep now.

but I have read every single post so far and I really appreciate all the posts.

[Dmytry]

Gimmie a break, haven't been here in months, get over yourself..

Good news then, I want to see them get those leaks and whatnot sealed.
http://www.thecanadian.org/hot-links/item/633-elevated-bc-radiation-levels-considered-no-threat-to-health?tmpl=component&print=1
you got up to 11Bq/L which is 100x the above-mentioned EPA limit. But 10x below Japanese limit for water for infants.
I'm pretty sure that in general in any big city the rainwater drastically exceeds EPA limits on a wide variety of carcinogenic compounds, tho.

[Shape]

http://www.thecanadian.org/hot-links/item/633-elevated-bc-radiation-levels-considered-no-threat-to-health?tmpl=component&print=1
you got up to 11Bq/L which is 100x the above-mentioned EPA limit.
I'm pretty sure that in general in any big city the rainwater drastically exceeds EPA limits on a wide variety of carcinogenic compounds, tho.

EPA also wishes to raise "safe" limits.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/2162

Not sure if I trust 'em.

[Dmytry]

To clarify the matter some more, EPA limits are extremely strict. That is a good thing. US nuclear plants in US are build to stay within limits and to have extremely low probability of going outside the limits, so that the normal release, combined with accidental release multiplied by accident probability would still be below limit. Unfortunately, industrialized countries are not all the same. Some countries were rapidly industrialized in the 20th century, and have much, much laxer standards than US and EU. This is what Sarkozy is negotiating about. Unified safety standards. The world is a village, and a plant in Japan can really violate US regulations.

[Washell]

And you just know there are a ton of people going "OMG! Radiation, fix it! I don't want cancer!" and then light up another cig. :rolleyes:

[Dmytry]

EPA also wishes to raise "safe" limits.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/2162

Not sure if I trust 'em.
The theory goes that there's no safe limits for carcinogenic / mutagenic pollutants. There is an existing cancer rate, and it is believed that a small increase in number of mutations leads to a proportional small increase in the probability of cancer.
The Fukushima release has exceeded that safe limit of 0 by infinitely many times worldwide. OMG so scary.

However, the extra cancer risk due to this release is extremely small.
The extra cancer risk, as listed on EPA site, is
http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/understand/health_effects.html#riskofcancer
That is 5 extra cases per 10 000 people per Rem (i.e. 0.0005). 1 rem = 0.01 Sievert .
So that is 0.0005/0.01 =0.05 per Sievert.

According to EPA-hosted PDF in the site, the extra dose from that iodine limit of 0.11 Bq/kg [see my earlier post], if it was present chronically in the tap water for entire year, would have been below 4 millirem/year , which is 40 microsievert/year = 4E-5 sievert/year = 0.00004 sievert/year.
That is, if the concentration was present for entire year, according to EPA's model, 0.00004*0.05 = 2E-6 = 2 extra cancer cases per million people. If it was exceeded by a factor of 100 for entire year (which it won't!), that would have been under 200 extra cancer cases per million.
How much under is an open question. EPA has to assume the worst.

And here you can see why those EPA limits are so extremely strict. EPA limits affect hundreds millions people. And it must not be forgotten that coal fired plants also result in a huge number of extra cancer cases.

edit:
reference pdf on iodine:
http://www.epa.gov/superfund/health/contaminants/radiation/pdfs/iodine.pdf

cancer cases vs deaths correction. The EPA figures are for extra cancer deaths. The extra cancer cases are presumably around 2..3 times that as people can survive cancer.

[Shape]

Thanks for the info Dmytry!

[Microshocky]

Radiation adds a little....spice to the sushi.

[thePyro_13]

Radiation (http://xkcd.com/radiation/), it's everywhere!

[Europhoria]

/stab

Alright alright, you're very sweet, the sweetest thing I know.

[bluz74]

Radiation Roll - $6.95

[DocZ]

I'm thinking of insulating my appartment with lead or something, since i live down the hall from a japanese guy... You never know if he might go into meltdown...



...this was a joke, no racism intended, or actual physics.

[stillmatic07]

As long as it doesn't touch our processed, msg filled fast food I'll be okay.

[GirlPower23]

As long as it doesn't touch our processed, msg filled fast food I'll be okay.

LOLZ It's true.. Americans have no problem shoving fast food full of MSG and other harmful products down their throats but gods! A tiny minuscule amount of radiation might, possibly, potentially, maybe, might appear in milk or water! OMGZZZ! Serious these people have a higher chance of dying from other things.

[Zefar]

I think your average food is more likely to cause you guys harm than the radiation level.

We in Sweden got a fair bit of nuclear radiation on us from Chernobyl I'd say but we're still fine.

[bluz74]

Not to mention the possiblity of attaining superpowers!

[Europhoria]

I think your average food is more likely to cause you guys harm than the radiation level.

We in Sweden got a fair bit of nuclear radiation on us from Chernobyl I'd say but we're still fine.

So you don't have any superhuman powers?

[stillmatic07]

LOLZ It's true.. Americans have no problem shoving fast food full of MSG and other harmful products down their throats but gods! A tiny minuscule amount of radiation might, possibly, potentially, maybe, might appear in milk or water! OMGZZZ! Serious these people have a higher chance of dying from other things.

Seriously I think MSG is addictive. When I go on strict diets around spring/summer I crave McDonalds/Burger King etc until about a month in at which that point I feel disgusted to look at fast food.

But once I have a double hamburger or nugget, it's all over.

[Zefar]

So you don't have any superhuman powers?

Sadly no, but I personally still class "Common sense" as a super power. :D

[Archvile]

Personally, think the extra radiation gives spinach a very distinct flavor.

[bluz74]

You know, I don't know what it is, but there is something fishy about this story. I ain't buying it.

[Dmytry]

Seriously I think MSG is addictive. When I go on strict diets around spring/summer I crave McDonalds/Burger King etc until about a month in at which that point I feel disgusted to look at fast food.

But once I have a double hamburger or nugget, it's all over.
What's the problem with MSG anyway? It's not a known carcinogen. Overeating, however, with MSG or without, IS a known carcinogen (is known to increase cancer rate).

Poisons in general have safe doses, below which there's truly no ill effects expected and no increased probability of anything, body can deal with a bit of poison all right. The carcinogens are different, cancer is a russian roulette. For cancer you cant say, 'body can deal with a few extra mutations' when body can't reliably enough deal even with the mutations it gets naturally.

But yes, eating fast food and complaining about a little radiation is a little bit like smoking crack and complaining of second hand tobacco smoke, even though it is true that second hand tobacco smoke doesn't do any good to the crack smoker.

[stillmatic07]

What's the problem with MSG anyway? It's not a known carcinogen. Overeating, however, with MSG or without, IS a known carcinogen.

Poisons in general have safe doses, below which there's truly no ill effects expecte and no increased probability of anything, body can deal with a bit of poison all right. The carcinogens are different, cancer is a russian roulette.

I was just saying it was addictive to me, and not much more useful than salt which I could use less of. Salt is my addiction as well and it's a health issue.

[Dmytry]

I was just saying it was addictive to me, and not much more useful than salt which I could use less of. Salt is my addiction as well and it's a health issue.
I don't like MSG much either. Natural MSG in tomatoes is fine, but just adding MSG to everything sucks. But I really dunno what are health effects. MSG amplifies taste of salt, so it may lead to less salt consumption, and perhaps saves some people from ill effects of salt.

[GirlPower23]

I don't like MSG much either. Natural MSG in tomatoes is fine, but just adding MSG to everything sucks. But I really dunno what are health effects. MSG amplifies taste of salt, so it may lead to less salt consumption, and perhaps saves some people from ill effects of salt.

MSG is generally an addictive substance.. an illegal drug so to speak. Thus making you crave more fast food.. thus poisoning your body with extreme amounts of trans fats and salts.. plus whatever else is in said fast food. Not all fast food uses MSG.. generally you can find out which ones do. I don't know if MSG itself has any unnatural side effects.. I usually just hear tinfoil hat stories about it.

[Dmytry]

MSG is generally an addictive substance.. an illegal drug so to speak. Thus making you crave more fast food.. thus poisoning your body with extreme amounts of trans fats and salts.. plus whatever else is in said fast food. Not all fast food uses MSG.. generally you can find out which ones do. I don't know if MSG itself has any unnatural side effects.. I usually just hear tinfoil hat stories about it.
Hmm I dunno about addictiveness, but I guess that is true it makes you eat more, what else would be the economical incentive for it's addition.
While it is true that MSG is a neurotransmitter, it seems that the prevailing opinion is that MSG in food only affects (in it's neurotransmitter role) your tongue (amplifying the taste). But it is difficult to evaluate health effects of all this. Japanese been using MSG long before it was chemically analysed, so at least it is not entirely unnatural - however the amounts of MSG in food may well be unnatural.

[CTRL ALT DEL !]

Sadly no, but I personally still class "Common sense" as a super power. :D The number of people with this is so low it may as well be a superpower.

[bluz74]

The number of people with this is so low it may as well be a superpower.

Uncommon sense?

[CTRL ALT DEL !]

Uncommon sense? Thats closer to the truth than you think. Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncommon_Sense)

[bluz74]

Thats closer to the truth than you think. Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncommon_Sense)

:mad: I hate when people steal my ideas before I have them. :mad:

[Modiga-Disabled]

As for iodine already hitting North America, do you realize that the particles hitting NA now are already past their half life?

That doesn't make any sense...

[CTRL ALT DEL !]

:mad: I hate when people steal my ideas before I have them. :mad:

That doesn't make any sense... I hate it more when my responces are stolen by a mod.