BRINK designed completely for bad players?

[fek1]

From all the videos of the game I've seen so far there has been 0 recoil on any of the guns, with the most effective strategy apparently being ADS in and hold. Anyone else think this will potentially make for bland gameplay?

Do bullets even do different amounts of damage based on where they hit?

[madlulz]

And another one goes
another ones goes
thank god he bit the dust.

edit:
Let me elaborate before some cry babies come in here and cry troll because they're still going through puberty and a little criticism is JUST TOO MUCH to handle, ok Susane?

Recoil != skill modifier, there is much more to gunplay than recoil.

[General Twinkle]

What about tf2? if memory serves, that game didn't have recoil either, but it still allowed for incredible amounts of skill. If it's handled well, it doesn't matter wether it has recoil or not

[ATLbandit]

It won't matter, the Call of Duty fans won't pick this up which will keep it nice and fun as opposed to what happened to Homefront.

[Xerotype X]

It isn't counter strike. You can say the skill comes from movement and teamwork.

Similar to Quake, Team Fortress, Enemy Territory etc. None of these really have any recoil

[At The Gates]

If you want recoil so bad, stick to your other more realistic games. Brink isnt for you.

[Darksider1972]

Plain and simple if you're a COD hardcore Leet whatever, This game is not for you period, so move along..

[fek1]

Wow, never have I seen people get so "protective" and hostile about a game (especially one that isn't even released yet).

I agree that recoil is not necessary for a game to be "skillful", but when health pools are relatively low and when aiming and putting bullets on the target is pretty easy it has often helped in recent games.

Just watching some of the interview with the devs, they clearly do indicate that the game is designed for people that maybe struggle in other games (thinking of the one where he talks about spraying from the hip being as effective as ads).

If you want recoil so bad, stick to your other more realistic games. Brink isnt for you.

I really don't give a toss about it from a realism perspective, more a fun game play one.

Plain and simple if you're a COD hardcore Leet whatever, This game is not for you period, so move along..

What the hell does this have to do with cod? I haven't even played it since CoD4. If anything I am wondering about the lack of recoil in the context of hoping the game doesn't become anything like CoD, where the outcome of the fight is decided simply by who points and clicks first because it is so easy to kill someone.

You can say the skill comes from movement and teamwork.

I hope that these are part of being "skillful" at this game as well, but the easier it is to kill someone the less it becomes about movement and teamwork as people start camping (see BC2 HC mode).

Also anyone able to answer my question about bullet damage to different parts of the body?

[Xerotype X]

I'm literally expecting it to be an updated version of Enemy Territory.

There is no 1-hit headshot kill, although headshots do the most damage.
Bodyshots do the second most damage.
And legs do the least.

That's what people that played the game said.


Very similar to Enemy Territory. Running around and and just killing people gets you nowhere, most likely there will not be a team-deathmatch mode. Everything will be objective based.

If it is anything like their previous games, most kills means jack ♥♥♥♥. It is the team who wins that matters. Also it would make sense that points and xp (I think there is a levelling system) will be awarded to doing your classes job.

[At The Gates]

They have already stated that there wont be any one shot kills, there wont be any leaderboards, grenades wont completely kill you right away unless you have really low health(same goes with knives), there will be some sort of recoil, but when you are getting shot at. The game will already be skillful enough with all the parkour/free running. Not sure why anyone would want recoil on top of that. Ill definitely enjoy the game with recoil or not. I play for fun, and nothing more.

[arizonachris]

Very similar to Enemy Territory. Running around and and just killing people gets you nowhere, most likely there will not be a team-deathmatch mode. Everything will be objective based.


I hope so. Team based, objective based. Not all these stupid snipers picking you off as soon as you spawn (CoD, anyone? :o)

As long as SD does away with the ranked servers, AKA ETQW, that didn't allow mods that didn't allow you to rank up, then I expect to see a lot of creative stuff for this game. Really gonna be fun!

[Darksider1972]

Wow, never have I seen people get so "protective" and hostile about a game (especially one that isn't even released yet).

I agree that recoil is not necessary for a game to be "skillful", but when health pools are relatively low and when aiming and putting bullets on the target is pretty easy it has often helped in recent games.

Just watching some of the interview with the devs, they clearly do indicate that the game is designed for people that maybe struggle in other games (thinking of the one where he talks about spraying from the hip being as effective as ads).



I really don't give a toss about it from a realism perspective, more a fun game play one.



What the hell does this have to do with cod? I haven't even played it since CoD4. If anything I am wondering about the lack of recoil in the context of hoping the game doesn't become anything like CoD, where the outcome of the fight is decided simply by who points and clicks first because it is so easy to kill someone.



I hope that these are part of being "skillful" at this game as well, but the easier it is to kill someone the less it becomes about movement and teamwork as people start camping (see BC2 HC mode).

Also anyone able to answer my question about bullet damage to different parts of the body?

I brought up the COD bit because a lot of PRO/Leets COD players have been coming on here and other sites talking about how this game sucks because it's has none of the COD type mechanics, aka to be a lone wolf racking up kills and brag about their K/D ratios and not really helping the team.

There are no 1 shot kill head shots, no insta-kill grenades, If a person gets shot or knockdown he still has a fighting chance of shooting back while down. from what I've seen you get bigger xp percentage for helping and following objectives, as to camping, It's practically useless in this game go back to my no 1 shot kill head shots comment and plus you won't be rewarded for it, games rewards to help the team and getting out into the battlefield and accomplishing the objectives.

[BurtonMcBain]

Just watching some of the interview with the devs, they clearly do indicate that the game is designed for people that maybe struggle in other games (thinking of the one where he talks about spraying from the hip being as effective as ads).

My interpretation of interviews / vids etc:
They try to make life easier for the casual gamers and new gamers. The SMART system will give the "freedom of movement" to anyone who can punch one button. Still there is a drawback: Using SMART will not be the fastest way to overcome an obstacle. A veteran fps gamer can use jump / crouch / sprint buttons to get a even better controll of your movement and be also faster.

The hip accuracy shown in the vids is quite high. This will also make it easier for beginners. Using the sights will still result in more accuracy so a "pro gamer" will get those headshots faster and therefore still has a advantage.

The lack of recoil wont be a problem imo since most combats seem to take place in cqc situations, so the effect of recoil isnt as noticeable as on longer ranges anyway.

Maybe not all decisions that have been made are popular, but at least you get the impression that they have actually thought about those decicions and did not just copy&past the most popular game mechanics, which we all already know since cod/bf etc.

I am excited to see if the concept behind brink will be as good as it sounds or if all will end up in the same death match like experience we know since UT.

[Darkunov]

If it is anything like their previous games, most kills means jack ♥♥♥♥. It is the team who wins that matters. Also it would make sense that points and xp (I think there is a levelling system) will be awarded to doing your classes job.

I even read somewhere that the kills won't be shown on the scoreboard (so the deaths probably won't either).

And yes, there will be a leveling system. Up to lvl 20 with an ability to unlock each level, from a choice of 58 total.

[Parliamentarian]

What about tf2? if memory serves, that game didn't have recoil either, but it still allowed for incredible amounts of skill. If it's handled well, it doesn't matter wether it has recoil or not

TF2 does indeed have recoil, somewhat. The bullets have random spread on hitscan weapons (except the sniper rifle), so you're almost never hitting the direct center of the crosshair. It just doesn't make your aim go upward as you fire.

They have already stated that there wont be any one shot kills, there wont be any leaderboards, grenades wont completely kill you right away unless you have really low health(same goes with knives), there will be some sort of recoil, but when you are getting shot at. The game will already be skillful enough with all the parkour/free running. Not sure why anyone would want recoil on top of that. Ill definitely enjoy the game with recoil or not. I play for fun, and nothing more.

Yep. Basically, this game is designed for people who want to play games to have fun; not for elitist ♥♥♥♥s who think a number in a video game actually means they are going to get laid.

[kbanny]

TF2 does indeed have recoil, somewhat. The bullets have random spread on hitscan weapons (except the sniper rifle), so you're almost never hitting the direct center of the crosshair. It just doesn't make your aim go upward as you fire.



Yep. Basically, this game is designed for people who want to play games to have fun; not for elitist ♥♥♥♥s who think a number in a video game actually means they are going to get laid.

Go play quake live. All you do is point and click... and worry about movement right, especially since there is NO RECOIL or spread shotgun. However, the skill ceiling is so high and the learning curve is so sharp that people last maybe 1 game before leaving for good with their tails between their legs. Movement and strategy are always a better indicator of skill than aim...as such that is where you'll see the biggest difference between a rookie and a vet... Look at all the top Duelers and the top CS teams... they don't have the best aim in the world, most of the time, but they do have the most sound strategy and a good grasp of the movement system and decent aim at the very least.

Btw there is spread if there is no recoil... the big difference is your first shot will always hit dead center after that there is movement in the bullet pattern.

[Parliamentarian]

Go play quake live. All you do is point and click... and worry about movement right, especially since there is NO RECOIL or spread shotgun. However, the skill ceiling is so high and the learning curve is so sharp that people last maybe 1 game before leaving for good with their tails between their legs. Movement and strategy are always a better indicator of skill than aim...as such that is where you'll see the biggest difference between a rookie and a vet... Look at all the top Duelers and the top CS teams... they don't have the best aim in the world, most of the time, but they do have the most sound strategy and a good grasp of the movement system and decent aim at the very least.

Btw there is spread if there is no recoil... the big difference is your first shot will always hit dead center after that there is movement in the bullet pattern.

Aim is important in Quake live, mostly because everyone moves extremely fast in that. The game also does have recoil on hitscan weapons like the machine gun. Of course, it also has TERRIBLE netcode, so you have to learn how to lead AND trail.

Though, I only play instagib. Aim's not as important in Deathmatch because all you need to do is be the first one to get to and camp the biggest gun on the map. :rolleyes:

[The_Sarrowstorm]

From all the videos of the game I've seen so far there has been 0 recoil on any of the guns, with the most effective strategy apparently being ADS in and hold. Anyone else think this will potentially make for bland gameplay?

Do bullets even do different amounts of damage based on where they hit?

I've had the same thoughts in my head, but I have no worries about the game being bland. It's like you completely ignored the SMART system and intricate leveling system. as for bullet damage, it matters where you shoot people. Kill icons also differentiate regular kills from head-shot kills.

As for the issue of recoil, I'll have to judge for myself. When shooting from the hip, the targeting circle expands very rapidly, but nothing during ADS. Maybe the players in these videos are rather proficient at adjusting their mouse to keep on target. Either way, I don't expect the game to be bland for it. If i can put a stead steam of fire on you, then you can do the same on to me.

[kbanny]

I never said it wasn't important but a smart player will always beat a bad player who has better aim... in any game. Also you shouldn't even mention the machine gun for one its spread not recoil... there's a difference and for 2 the other hitscan weapon the LG is pixel perfect constantly and it's one of the most used guns (Rocket/Rail/Lg) in no order.

If you didn't see that brink has this same bullet spread you're talking about then you don't have a good eye.

Believe me it will be night and day in telling a vet from a rookie based on MOVEMENT alone.

One more thing good aim is relative... to me I expect an average player to shoot 35% overall acc. good players are closer to 50(with all weapons not just instagib where people can't move because of no boosting) If you shoot 35 acc and move good + play smart... you'll destroy somebody with 100 acc that walks everywhere and just holds forward.

tldr; the game will have a much higher skill ceiling than a cod type game...

[Parliamentarian]

I never said it wasn't important but a smart player will always beat a bad player who has better aim... in any game. Also you shouldn't even mention the machine gun for one its spread not recoil... there's a difference and for 2 the other hitscan weapon the LG is pixel perfect constantly and it's one of the most used guns (Rocket/Rail/Lg) in no order.

The LG isn't a hitscan weapon. It shoots friggin lightning bolts! :o

It's also referred to as the "Lame Gun" because it's not all that accurate.

The only true hitscan weapons in QL are the machine gun, the chaingun, and the Rail Gun.

But of course a bad player will lose to a good player. That should go without saying. :rolleyes:

[kbanny]

The LG isn't a hitscan weapon. It shoots friggin lightning bolts! :o

It's also referred to as the "Lame Gun" because it's not all that accurate.

The only true hitscan weapons in QL are the machine gun, the chaingun, and the Rail Gun.

But of course a bad player will lose to a good player. That should go without saying. :rolleyes:
Not that it matters but LG is hitscan... its point and click and there is no delay that's the definition of hitscan.

As I said the game will likely have a much higher skill ceiling than most if not all mainstream games.

[Parliamentarian]

Not that it matters but LG is hitscan... its point and click and there is no delay that's the definition of hitscan.

That is the definition of hitscan, but the LG isn't instant. It's fast as hell, but it's not instant, and that is where it's inaccuracy comes from.

[Ranik]

It has features that help bad players but have enough depth to them to be good for good players. This, like W:ET, is a game designed around teamwork + movement. This game does have recoil + spread, it just doesn't have muzzle climb, because if your screen moved it would mess up your SMART commands, and nobody could hit one another while SMARTing + shooting with muzzle climb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u65C-b_Jt5M gameplay like this.

[Kewp]

As long as SD does away with the ranked servers, AKA ETQW, that didn't allow mods that didn't allow you to rank up, then I expect to see a lot of creative stuff for this game. Really gonna be fun!


im pretty sure they said u can rank up in single player mode aswell as tutorial/challange modes, so shouldnt be a problem

[Parliamentarian]

As long as SD does away with the ranked servers, AKA ETQW, that didn't allow mods that didn't allow you to rank up

How is that a problem? Why would you mod a ranked server to not have ranks? Wouldn't it be simpler to just, I don't know, RUN/PLAY ON A NON-RANKED SERVER? :rolleyes:

[ZernoK]

How is that a problem? Why would you mod a ranked server to not have ranks? Wouldn't it be simpler to just, I don't know, RUN/PLAY ON A NON-RANKED SERVER? :rolleyes:

Seems like you are misunderstanding the guy, ETQW killed all sort of custom content because of ranked servers. The only way to run a ranked server was by keeping it at vanilla settings.

Custom content was therefore forced to use unranked server and unranked server means no exp / stats to gain ranks, which was a big part for public players.

Because of this almost none bothered to check out custom content.
If I remember correctly.. so did the game not allow you to download custom content directly from the server either, meaning you had to download it directly from a website.

[Parliamentarian]

Seems like you are misunderstanding the guy, ETQW killed all sort of custom content because of ranked servers. The only way to run a ranked server was by keeping it at vanilla settings.

Custom content was therefore forced to use unranked server and unranked server means no exp / stats to gain ranks, which was a big part for public players.

Because of this almost none bothered to check out custom content.
If I remember correctly.. so did the game not allow you to download custom content directly from the server either, meaning you had to download it directly from a website.

Ahhh, ok that makes more sense.

Yeah, I hope they don't do that for Brink. Though, it is understandable. You can cheat with custom models. Have you ever seen those ones in Counter-Strike that just add long ♥♥♥ bars coming out of people's chests that act like a crude wallhack? Or invisible wall textures? I wouldn't want those people to get points for cheating!

[General Twinkle]

TF2 does indeed have recoil, somewhat. The bullets have random spread on hitscan weapons (except the sniper rifle), so you're almost never hitting the direct center of the crosshair. It just doesn't make your aim go upward as you fire.

Well that's not skill, that's luck.

[Parliamentarian]

Well that's not skill, that's luck.

I didn't say it was skill. Just that TF2 does have recoil, to a degree.

From the videos of Brink, it looks about the same, except that the spread becomes more wild the more you fire. As someone else here mentioned, it probably doesn't have the "look up" thing because of SMART. It would suck ♥♥♥ to slide at someone, and as you start shooting, you end up jumping into a spray a bullets because the SMART system thought that's what you wanted.

[Me2nice]

They have already stated that there wont be any one shot kills, there wont be any leaderboards, grenades wont completely kill you right away unless you have really low health(same goes with knives), there will be some sort of recoil, but when you are getting shot at. The game will already be skillful enough with all the parkour/free running. Not sure why anyone would want recoil on top of that. Ill definitely enjoy the game with recoil or not. I play for fun, and nothing more.

And with this, my interest in the game has increased! :D

[flarp]

i agree. the lack of recoil is worrisome.

That essentially means that Assault rifles, SMG's and LMGS will have basically the same characteristics aside from maybe damage and rpm. That somewhat removes the tactical advantages/disadvantages off each weapon.

[weinzey]

recoil is not necessary if the damage falloff is high, which it definitely was in W:ET.
there will still be bullet spread.
the differences in weapons will be defined by dmg, dmg falloff, rpm and spread. that should be enough.
recoil is mostly a necessity in slow moving games akin cod.
also, if it is anything like W:ET, you will need lots of bullets to kill someone, which makes fighting depending on movement and aiming skills instead of luck and who shoots the first bullet. fi in ET, you needed 4 headshots to kill a high lvl medic.
definitely looking forward to this, liking it more every day

[e2`GINNN]

If you are a long time Wolfenstein ET player you will know that once you conquered the basics of ET, there was a treasure trove of hidden skills that you could learn, that were pretty hard.

In one interview about BRINK with Paul Wedgewood he even stated, that yes, once you start it will be pretty easy, but once you conquer the basics, there is soooooooooooooooooooo SO much more to learn and do!

[arizonachris]

Can I ask a dumb question without being insulted, as I was in another Thread here? By recoil, do you mean "rise"? If so, then isn't it natural for this to happen? I have fired many a weapon in real life (yeah, I do get flashbacks from 'Nam) and they all have rise. Windege, too.

I actually find the weapons modeling in ETQW to be very good, very realistic. I'm hoping SD is going to do a good job with this one, can't wait to try it out, actually!

[TrinityKei]

@arizonachris
Yes, Recoil means the "rise" of the weapon once firing, as it is hard to keep it steady if you're shooting non stop. I agree with most here that it isn't needed to make a game skillful, not everything has to be ultra realistic, and this is one of those games that has a lot to offer without being a CoD clone.

[Mekast]

not everything has to be ultra realistic, and this is one of those games that has a lot to offer without being a CoD clone.
just to note

CoD isn't realistic in any part.

Also hip firing is going to be range depending (as it looks), so no need to worry about getting hip killed from other side of map.

[Joeji]

they have stated that there is recoil on guns, hence why there are gun grips to reduce recoil.

[irogue]

From all the videos of the game I've seen so far there has been 0 recoil on any of the guns, with the most effective strategy apparently being ADS in and hold. Anyone else think this will potentially make for bland gameplay?

Do bullets even do different amounts of damage based on where they hit?


Just buy a mouse that has a vibration feature, so when you left click the mouse wobbles ;-)

[Le0]

It's also referred to as the "Lame Gun" because it's not all that accurate.
By whom? By you? You should stop making thing up, it won't help your case. There's no such term, although there is a term "LG ♥♥♥♥♥", which is used by whiners getting stuffed with said weapon.

That is the definition of hitscan, but the LG isn't instant. It's fast as hell, but it's not instant, and that is where it's inaccuracy comes from.

It is instant, get yourself a better connection. It does have a limited range, maybe that's where your confusion comes from?

[Parliamentarian]

It is instant, get yourself a better connection. It does have a limited range, maybe that's where your confusion comes from?

That could be it. Or it could be because of lag. I always have to lead that thing hella.

And every game I play now, people are always calling it the Lame Gun :rolleyes:

[JohnnyFronthole]

There is recoil as well as attachments that affect it. If you watch the videos, you'll notice the targeting reticle expands during extended fire. Presumably, the spread increases according to the expansion of the reticle, thereby reducing your accuracy (in effect, lowering the accuracy bar listed under the weapon stats).

In games where the weapon rises when fired, players can aim at center mass and spray up into a head shot without much aim (or from legs [lowest dmg] to torso [more dmg] to head [most dmg] in one long trigger squeeze); now they will have to actually keep the reticle on the target or portion of the target they want to hit. And, even if they maintain precise aim with their mouse, extended firing will be penalized by increasing loss of accuracy due to recoil.

I like it. This seems like a good way to handle the mechanic for what is intended to be a stylish, fast-paced game. Of course, we won't know just how much it will affect play until we have hands on.

[madafaka]

i agree. the lack of recoil is worrisome.

That essentially means that Assault rifles, SMG's and LMGS will have basically the same characteristics aside from maybe damage and rpm. That somewhat removes the tactical advantages/disadvantages off each weapon.

recoil does not determine how good/bad a game is. like other mentioned, there are several games who did better with 0 recoil and yet allow the use of advanced skills. TF2, quake, ut and so many others. TF2 for instance, despite being released so many years ago, if more popular than Crysis 1&2+homefront+bad company combined all together.

[Shen]

recoil does not determine how good/bad a game is. like other mentioned, there are several games who did better with 0 recoil and yet allow the use of advanced skills. TF2, quake, ut and so many others. TF2 for instance, despite being released so many years ago, if more popular than Crysis 1&2+homefront+bad company combined all together.

TF2 is not more popular than those games combined.

[madafaka]

TF2 is not more popular than those games combined.

I'm referring to number of active players.

[ivr56]

I'm referring to number of active players.
TF2 has a high amount of active users but.If Xfire (Even though not everyone uses it) is any indication of trends. Remember Steam stats show only Steam purchased/registered copies versus Xfire which detects all copies when used(illegal, legal, Steam or not).

http://www.xfire.com/games/bfbc2/Battlefield_Bad_Company_2/
http://www.xfire.com/games/tf2/Team_Fortress_2/
Bad Company 2 alone (#6) has TF2 beat (#31).

http://www.xfire.com/games/cry2mp/Crysis_2/
Even Crysis 2 (#30) actually.

[BlackLite]

All the talk about no recoil.......well I already have shaky hands, so I kinda add the recoil to game by myself! XD lol

[HeadStrikeR]

Brink is all about teamplay and coorporation between the classes, lack of recoil gives more weight into these aspects of the game. If you want recoil, play Counterstrike. Brink wants to be different and it will a breath of fresh air in the FPS genre.

[AlHudson1]

Brink wants to be different and it will a breath of fresh air in the FPS genre.

EPIC and People Can Fly said the same about BulletStorm (and certainly they did) However critics destroyed it.

[Mekast]

EPIC and People Can Fly said the same about BulletStorm (and certainly they did) However critics destroyed it.
GfWL and EPIC destroyed it.

The game may have "recoil" like C-S:S.

[ATLbandit]

TF2 has a high amount of active users but.If Xfire (Even though not everyone uses it) is any indication of trends. Remember Steam stats show only Steam purchased/registered copies versus Xfire which detects all copies when used(illegal, legal, Steam or not).

http://www.xfire.com/games/bfbc2/Battlefield_Bad_Company_2/
http://www.xfire.com/games/tf2/Team_Fortress_2/
Bad Company 2 alone (#6) has TF2 beat (#31).

http://www.xfire.com/games/cry2mp/Crysis_2/
Even Crysis 2 (#30) actually.

You assume people use xFire, it doesn't just detect copies on people's machines that do not have xFire installed.

I rarely use xFire, I have 2 friends that still use it compared to the 70 or so I have on Steam.

Therefore these stats are even less accurate than ones from Steam.

[ivr56]

True

But still shows some trends on PC. Same with Steam stats.

[RenegadeShade]

What about tf2? if memory serves, that game didn't have recoil either, but it still allowed for incredible amounts of skill. If it's handled well, it doesn't matter wether it has recoil or not

THIS ^

I hate when people complaint it will be bad because of this or because of that, because aslmost every missing features that people are complaining about, its missing also in TF2, but it is still one of the most played games today