Weapons need major balancing

[tb87670]

Sure, this post will be called a troll post by a few, I don't give a f---. The weapons in this game need balancing. Incendiary machinegun is way too OP in comparison to other incendiary weapons and it is the MOST noticeable weapon that needs to be toned down or all others beefed up. That thing is not supposed to but it eats through shields as well as armor, not either or. And EMP has way too much of an effect, it's almost criminal how a better player can get bested by a guy toting emp grenades and an incendiary machinegun with just blind fire.

And as an argument to all of you that disagree, especially the noobs who use such weapons, ALL GAMES are imbalanced, even if it's so slight most don't notice it. Yes, even Starcraft 2 just ask Zerg players. It's just impossible to find a perfect balance but maybe Timegate can fix a very obvious and glaring IMBA that's in our faces.

EDIT: I AM NOT ALONE!
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=20862

[Tufelhunden]

Thanks for telling us you don't know how to use your loadouts. Everything, and I mean everything has a counter. There are some good threads on the TG forums about loadouts I suggest you read them.

[DeadLamb]

yeah sounds like someone is not willing to give up their offense based load boosts to focus on defense/armor etc to counter being shot so much..

I not really noticed any weapon being OP.. Oh I've seen people use better tactics on me, get a drop on me, sneak up, block or use a ton of lockon or whatever.. Have yet to see someone just kill me over and over being he is using weapons A B or C and I'm using something else...

people just like to think they can roll pure stealth and assassin builds and not the less glamorous shield regen/armor buffs/repair builds.

Like one of my builds has a ton of boost for ground speed and the jump jets.. I pretty much never to the so called massive OP pulse gun with that build being I'm never on the ground long enough to be hit, but I do get lock on pegged due to being in the air.

[Wrenchsman]

yeah sounds like someone is not willing to give up their offense based load boosts to focus on defense/armor etc to counter being shot so much..

I not really noticed any weapon being OP.. Oh I've seen people use better tactics on me, get a drop on me, sneak up, block or use a ton of lockon or whatever.. Have yet to see someone just kill me over and over being he is using weapons A B or C and I'm using something else...

people just like to think they can roll pure stealth and assassin builds and not the less glamorous shield regen/armor buffs/repair builds.

Like one of my builds has a ton of boost for ground speed and the jump jets.. I pretty much never to the so called massive OP pulse gun with that build being I'm never on the ground long enough to be hit, but I do get lock on pegged due to being in the air.

I agree with this. I've been killed and taken my revenge on them. I don't feel anyone is dominating me at all in this game. What's putting players for the first time in history is to create better strategies and better tactics. You can't really tell what kind of weapon your enemy is using too, and there are a lot of things that are going on the field that you can't pretty much go around finding the guy who killed you.

[PhellAsleep]

There is actually an armor mod that gives you resistance to fire dmg. You just have to unlock it.

The main problem I see is that most people don't even care that they are getting shot at until their shields go *poof*. Then they freak out and get wasted by an ammo type specifically designed to take down what's left of their life. It isn't OP, people just need to learn to mind both their shield and armor bars.

Just using crash rounds, I've stood 5 ft behind someone chipping away at their shields and it wasn't until that was gone that they decided to pay attention to the fact that someone was shooting at them. Of course by then it was too late and they were as good as dead. Was I that good? No. They were just that bad.

[stinkytaco]

I knew this thread was coming. Now the only other thread I predict is how TF2 is the most balanced game on the planet, and how much this game is not like TF2. Sometimes there is a Counterstrike:Source comparison thread.

I agree with the others. There are counter measures for every type of assault.
At first just try not to go "Rambo". Stay around your team and play defense for a little while.You will learn a lot!

Dont give up! Hope to see you on the servers, we need more players.

[tb87670]

Honestly look at the listing of kills and you will see the flame machinegun much much more often than other weapons. I am not saying this game doesn't involve strategy like others are implying, I can beat these people. I do have defensive mods as a requirement anymore because of so many people chucking EMP's at me are making me live off armor. But this weapon requires much less skill to take down better players, which hurts the sport of the game and why it needs tweaking.

What's worse is I did not complain about this for the first 12 hours I put into the game. The game was balanced when everyone was under rank 30. But today it's getting worse, as more and more players reach rank 33 and just degrade themselves to using the flame machinegun. I can only predict it will get worse as the game was only out on PC for 5 days. 5 days. In 2 weeks even the casual players will have flame machineguns and further ruin the game. The first 3 days this game was out it was perfectly fine. Then more and more players started using equipment that tosses out that perfectly fine balance.

[Red Spot]

Perhaps it is only so OP cause few high lvl players found it a very nice combo to eat newer players.
Perhaps it will balance itself out when more player get a bit more experience.
Perhaps we should just give this game at the very least untill it 1M kills and see after that, making sure it at least gets a decent chance of showing its current balance works or not :)

Just some thoughts, I still belong to that 'newer player' group so can only judge from one end of the stick.

[PhellAsleep]

I don't see a lot of fire machine gun kills. In fact, very few people even have it unlocked yet. More likely, people are seeing someone who is significantly better at the game at a high enough level and using that weapon, just mopping the floor with everyone else.

I see more people using sniper rifles and pulse cannons. Of course those don't show up on kill lists as much because most people use them to knock out your shields and finish you off with an anti-armor modded weapon.

If all you're going to look at is the kills list, you will of course see weapons like the napalm shotgun, machine guns, and rocket launchers on there. Those are weapons designed to be used against your armor bar, which so happens to be under your shields, and is the kind of weapon they switch to after they take out your shields.

I find it funnier that no one complains about their shields being one shotted by a pulse cannon, but whine and complain about being 40 shotted by a napalm machine gun instead of 55 shotted by a slug machine gun.

[shrinkshooter]

My issue with the fire machine gun is that its DOT is just ridiculous. It's manageable if they don't take down my shields first, and if they aren't hitting all their shots. But fire weapons are supposed to be weak against shields, and this is definitely isn't. And who does that anyway? It feels like more than 50% of the time people are just using pulse cannons.

Then when my shield is down, they clip me with the fire MG and unless I duck and cover, I'm toast. If people use it more often I'll need to change my kits to the anti-fire mod, but the thing that I think should be altered somewhat is the amount of DOT. I got scratched by a few bullets from a fire MG, and I watched my armor bar drop down in chunks. Chunks larger than any damage the bullets themselves did. I had no self healing device so even though I was safe and away from the guy (dead), I could do nothing but watch my armor get eaten away over the span of two or three seconds. It removed something like 30-50% of my armor, I don't remember exactly.

Yes, there is a counter to it, and no, I don't think it needs to be altered QUITE yet. I need to do a little more playing and research before I come to a final decision on whether the DOT really is just stupid for certain, or whether it seemed that way to me.

==edit==

one thousandth post

[ejony10]

Sure, this post will be called a troll post by a few, I don't give a f---. The weapons in this game need balancing. Incendiary machinegun is way too OP in comparison to other incendiary weapons and it is the MOST noticeable weapon that needs to be toned down or all others beefed up. That thing is not supposed to but it eats through shields as well as armor, not either or. And EMP has way too much of an effect, it's almost criminal how a better player can get bested by a guy toting emp grenades and an incendiary machinegun with just blind fire.

And as an argument to all of you that disagree, especially the noobs who use such weapons, ALL GAMES are imbalanced, even if it's so slight most don't notice it. Yes, even Starcraft 2 just ask Zerg players. It's just impossible to find a perfect balance but maybe Timegate can fix a very obvious and glaring IMBA that's in our faces.

EDIT: I AM NOT ALONE!
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=20862

I think you're post is ok; however, calling everyone noobs on a game that was just released? Please...

[KDR_11k]

The repair tool heals you MUCH faster than the DOT hurts you, pull one out and laugh the DOT off. It's generally handy to have as it can rebuild destroyed base structures (especially flak) and such.

The biggest weakness of nade-using builds is range, they can't nade you at longer ranges. Fire MGs don't tear through shields very fast, of course they can still de-shield you with enough fire (takes 50% more bullets than rail rounds would) but Prejudice has fairly high lethality overall anyway.

The main problem I see is that most people don't even care that they are getting shot at until their shields go *poof*.

Might be due to the sound of being hit in the shield, I often don't notice individual shield hits (e.g. sniper shots) because the sound doesn't stand out enough. May just be my experience with the original S8 though where shield hits were a way of saying you're not in immediate danger as short range attacks would bypass the shields entirely.

[PhellAsleep]

The same could be said about the emp modded machine gun. I can eat through someone's armor with emp pistols and machine guns just as quickly as I can with regular slug rounds. The difference is really negligable.

The DoT from naplam projectiles does not do so much damage that the heal from a base repair tool can't easily overshadow it. If your life was falling off in chucks, it's more likely that you didn't just get clipped by a few rounds and were still being shot at.

The person probably started shooting at your from a distance with regular aim and then popped off auto-lock when you were close to dying. Auto-lock actually improves weapon accuracy significantly and not just tracks the reticle to someone's movement. Even if someone is out of a weapon's normal firing range, an auto-lock will make almost all the shots hit.

The only instance where I've taken signifcant fire damage while not being actively shot at is from napalm grenades, rockets, and mortars, which happen to leave patches of fire on the ground that will hurt you if you stand in them.

[KDR_11k]

Slug does 10% more damage (compared to rail) to armor, EMP does -30% damage. The difference is really huge. Yes, you can kill with an EMP MG but it's a bad idea. I've got a napalm grenade in my tool slot to finish enemies that I hit with the EMP MG if nobody else is around to do the job (usually the blast kills the enemy right away, the burn effect is just a neat extra for his buddies).

[PhellAsleep]

Are those PvP or PvE stats? I notice when playing through the campaign that the effects of mods were a lot more noticable. Going online, it feels like most of the mod types have been normalized.

[jmrwacko]

Honestly look at the listing of kills and you will see the flame machinegun much much more often than other weapons.

That's because the flame mg is the best at taking out armor, which will naturally cause killing blows. But weapons that do damage to shields such as the pulse rifle and concussive rounds are equally effective, they just do more front-end damage and less killing blow damage. You get points in this game mostly for teamwork, not combat.

I don't see a lot of fire machine gun kills. In fact, very few people even have it unlocked yet. More likely, people are seeing someone who is significantly better at the game at a high enough level and using that weapon, just mopping the floor with everyone else.

This. It takes a lot of gameplay at this stage in the game to unlock the fire mg, so people using it will naturally be decent players or have played a lot since release.

[shrinkshooter]

The same could be said about the emp modded machine gun. I can eat through someone's armor with emp pistols and machine guns just as quickly as I can with regular slug rounds. The difference is really negligable.

No, because no.

The DoT from naplam projectiles does not do so much damage that the heal from a base repair tool can't easily overshadow it.

Like I didn't think of this already. However, 1) some of my kits do not have the repair tool, and I'm not going to use it on every loadout; 2) you cannot run or attack while repairing, making it an exercise in futility, as their weapons fire will overshadow your healing ability, and if you haven't noticed taking cover in this game is not the easiest thing to do.

If your life was falling off in chucks, it's more likely that you didn't just get clipped by a few rounds and were still being shot at.

Nope. He was dead, and no one else was around. I was in the middle of nowhere on Whiteout, and after I killed him, I was far from any allies, bases, enemies, and anything else. I had no repair tool, so my only recourse was to sit there and stare at my screen, waiting for myself to die.

The person probably started...

Nope.

The only instance where I've taken signifcant fire damage while not being actively shot at is from...

...and you list everything else in the game that causes fire damage. Lolwut. The only time I ever get wet in real life aside from when I'm taking a bath or shower is when water somehow comes into contact with my body. You get what I'm saying?

[DeadLamb]

1) some of my kits do not have the repair tool, and I'm not going to use it on every loadout .................... I had no repair tool, so

to be fair, if a player chooses a load out with more offense based gear they should not really complain about dieing in a way that a more defensive load out would have saved them from..

It's the risk vs reward issue that makes games like this a little more interesting then your average game where you pick maybe one of three guns and that's it..

that why it's so hard to say this or that is really clearly OP being people can stack so many different attributes into their load outs. It has to be pretty rare that player A vs player B are running 100% the same stat builds and only the weapons are different.. Even then it might be about better aim or whatever..

I will say I got EMP pulsed + siphon killed the other night and that just felt all sort of cheap.. At least a knife is getting point blank close, the siphon is like "Hey look I got sort of kind of near you" poof, dead.

of course knowing that guy is an EMP pulse player, next time I just stayed in the air more and rained rockets down on him..

[shrinkshooter]

At least a knife is getting point blank close, the siphon is like "Hey look I got sort of kind of near you" poof, dead.

of course knowing that guy is an EMP pulse player

The siphon doesn't really go poof dead, it can't kill you by itself. It doesn't have enough energy. Unless they're using the engineering interface mods, but even then I'm not sure if it's enough to kill you by itself. And they may not need to get as close as a knife but they still need to be getting pretty close, and they sacrifice being able to run or use a weapon anyway.

Also, a siphon bypasses shields like a knife does, so I'm not sure why he pulsed you to begin with. Sure, to shoot you down if his siphon couldn't kill you, but I would have siphoned first. I guess he wanted to get the most for his money and heal himself in the ensuing firefight.