Beta/Demo as pre-order until release, please devs read

[BillP4wnS]

Minecraft has created the best way of gaining popularity in the indie-games market: to stay in beta until it's finished. This allows the developpers to see what needs to be fixed and lets them listen to what the players want.

Nuclear Dawn would need exactly that: think of a beta release for those who pre-order the game. People would stop complaining about the far realease date and it would give you a chance against this fall's blockbusters. In the end, when it would reach it's ultimate release, the game would be a far better game for everyone, both players and critics.

[juicebox360]

Minecraft has created the best way of gainig popularity in the indie-games market: to stay in beta until it's finished. This allows the developpers to see what needs to be fixed and lets them listen to what the players want.

Nuclear Dawn would need exactly that: think of a beta release for those who pre-order the game. People would stop complaining about the far realease date and it would give you a chance against this fall's blockbusters. In the end, when it would reach it's ultimate release, the game would be a far better game for everyone, both players and critics.

All great points but unfortunately nullified by the fact that IW needs to consult Valve with a finished/close-to-finished product before getting a "suggested retail price".

[BillP4wnS]

Isn't a beta a close-to-finished product?

[juicebox360]

Isn't a beta a closed-to-finished product?

Yeah, that's the thing - ND isn't "close-to-finished" yet (IMO).

[FlyingMongoose]

Not just Valve, they have publishers to deal with too.

[EnterHavoc]

Minecraft has created the best way of gaining popularity in the indie-games market: to stay in beta until it's finished. This allows the developpers to see what needs to be fixed and lets them listen to what the players want.

Nuclear Dawn would need exactly that: think of a beta release for those who pre-order the game. People would stop complaining about the far realease date and it would give you a chance against this fall's blockbusters. In the end, when it would reach it's ultimate release, the game would be a far better game for everyone, both players and critics.

The pay-during-development strategy works great for creative indie titles, especially when games like Minecraft go viral. But while everything about minecraft screams indie, Nuclear Dawn is going to be competing (whether it wants to or not) with AAA titles.

There are hundreds if not thousands of FPS games out there, and while Nuclear Dawn is hoping to bring a unique take on it, the different genre inherently makes a pay-during-development scheme a horrible idea. Minecrafts core gameplay (the creative aspects) came LONG before the game even had a java client released. The bugs and lack of features werent a big deal because its a sandbox; if you have the sand and the box then the core of the game is done. In a shooter you need an almost perfect game before it starts to become playable (at least in these spoiled times) to the general public. Not to mention picture perfect netcode.

And at this point, the logical next argument is to say "well, just let the really core fans do it then". And a lot of them already are, its just they didnt have to pay to do it.

Games with long lasting value (generally creative indie games) can pull off something like what Minecraft did. A first person shooter has a drastically shorter lifespan on average.

[Silverfell]

Our plans are, funnily enough, similar to the original poster's suggestion, but then again with EnterHavok's considerations.

Access to a closed Beta period is indeed the perk for preordering Nuclear Dawn. However, a competent, well-crafted shooter does not evolve as much as a sandbox indie game, and needs to be far more polished - effectively in late Beta, before you can let anyone near it.

Preorders, if our current schedule holds without massive delays, will start somewhere mid to late July. Early adopters of Nuclear Dawn will be automatically able to play as early as mid to late August, a month ahead of the mid to late September release.

[Me2nice]

Minecraft didn't create that trend.

[Nutter666]

Indeed, it is simply the one that got wealthiest off it. A more appropriate example of this would be Natural Selection 2. You could pre order that since the earliest engine test was completed I think?

Its not all peaches and cream, though a lot of the fans have pre-ordered the game was literally unplayable to like 90% (that number is significantly improved now) there are many features still to add and much polish needed and half of their forum is all either telling the devs how to do their job or moaning about how it will never actually come out despite all the huge progress recently or moaning of the lack of players saying the game is dead before its even done. The other portion seems comprised of people who want arbitrary balance changes and are concerned about gameplay as if this is a full product and not a beta.

In short, for a game like an FPS I dont think you can trust the general public to respect that it is a beta, and I'm not sure if the whole growing product method is affective or applicable for any game.

That and it can get tricky as everyone who preorders is entitled to a refund so if they are relying on that income the carpet could get pulled from beneath their feet after one mass panic caused by a delay or feature cut.

[Silverfell]

Everything Nutter666 said +1.

To add to that, I can't count the times we have completely overhauled gameplay paradigms based on session feedback or unrealistic expectations.

Weapons, player roles, loadouts, building functions, research, graphics, code, functions... everything goes through several cycles of iteration and refinement (or outright savaging) through the course of development.

It's a lot to ask of players to invest in something that may one day become a good shooter, and then put them through months and month of birthing pains. We think it is much better when players are presented with a finished product they can give feedback to, rather than a broken collection of features that may well one day be removed from the bill.

[Sops]

Access to a closed Beta period is indeed the perk for preordering Nuclear Dawn. However, a competent, well-crafted shooter does not evolve as much as a sandbox indie game, and needs to be far more polished - effectively in late Beta, before you can let anyone near it.

http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/

[EnterHavoc]

Indeed, it is simply the one that got wealthiest off it. A more appropriate example of this would be Natural Selection 2. You could pre order that since the earliest engine test was completed I think?

Its not all peaches and cream, though a lot of the fans have pre-ordered the game was literally unplayable to like 90% (that number is significantly improved now) there are many features still to add and much polish needed and half of their forum is all either telling the devs how to do their job or moaning about how it will never actually come out despite all the huge progress recently or moaning of the lack of players saying the game is dead before its even done. The other portion seems comprised of people who want arbitrary balance changes and are concerned about gameplay as if this is a full product and not a beta.

In short, for a game like an FPS I dont think you can trust the general public to respect that it is a beta, and I'm not sure if the whole growing product method is affective or applicable for any game.

That and it can get tricky as everyone who preorders is entitled to a refund so if they are relying on that income the carpet could get pulled from beneath their feet after one mass panic caused by a delay or feature cut.

So true. I don't know whether I'm merely becoming more informed and reaching the ceiling of cynicism here, but as someone who regular participates in late alphas/early betas (well before its in the beta ala demo stage) I see those types of nuff nuffs more and more. The kind of people who, like all of us, dreamt of being play testers, but then never had the bubble burst when they realised what real QA testing was. They complain about things like only 1 map without proper objectives, when the game is more an engine demo than anything else. Do these people just want free games?

Anyway, it's great to see that you guys are finally giving us general dates (again! :p ) for the build up to launch. Very exciting times, especially with my disappointment train for BF3 growing higher and higher (technological feats aside, the games sacrificing its core gameplay to appeal to the CoD fanbase). On a slightly related note, I was watching TotalBiscuit's daily mailbox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kw3AFJmctk&feature=feedu) on the tubes and at about 16 minutes he briefly touches on the idea that one day, an indie developer will bring us the next Battlefield. Needless to say, thats the reason I brought up my ND forum bookmark once again :D

[Orange Ninja]

... On a slightly related note, I was watching TotalBiscuit's daily mailbox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kw3AFJmctk&feature=feedu) on the tubes and at about 16 minutes he briefly touches on the idea that one day, an indie developer will bring us the next Battlefield. Needless to say, thats the reason I brought up my ND forum bookmark once again :D

I also immediately thought of this game!

As I don't believe in coincidences, care to explain what kind of trickery this is? :mad:

[neur0]

Unless a FPS game has a gazillion dollars for a hype-generating campaign, it needs a demo or a (half)open beta to bring in a wider player base.

[EnterHavoc]

I also immediately thought of this game!

As I don't believe in coincidences, care to explain what kind of trickery this is? :mad:

TB is actually being paid by Interwave to backmask his daily mailbox with "BUY NUCLEAR DAWN BUY NUCLEAR DAWN" over and over again. Just play it backwards and you can hear it for yourself.

[FlyingMongoose]

Unless a FPS game has a gazillion dollars for a hype-generating campaign, it needs a demo or a (half)open beta to bring in a wider player base.

If this were the case, Minecraft wouldn't have even sold it's first copy... just saying.