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View Full Version : Dungeon Siege 3 is Dark Alliance 3 in the DS universe


Kaliss
06-11-2011, 12:10 PM
Which I love since Dark Alliance 1 and 2 are some of my favorite games which I still go back and play occasionally. While I like the previous DS games I never cared enough for them to go back and play them.

So while other people are complaining about how much they disliked the demo and how they cancelled their preorders the Demo actually got me to preorder it when I had been on the fence before.

Cmdr. Thanatos
06-11-2011, 12:20 PM
Yes, and if they named this DA3 instead of DS3, everyone would be ok with that. Since they did not, this game is going to be the knife that kills the series.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 12:40 PM
Things like this amuse me. Why do you think the Baldurs gate: dark alliance games weren't called Baldur's gate 3 and 4? Theres a reason those games aren't numbered entries to the series, and it's not that they're bad games.

What they've done here is promote this game as though it is a numbered entry, but it isn't. Not just in title either; they said that the mouse controls would be point and click, it says that the game features "fully online multiplayer" on the steam page and many other things.

This game COULD be fun without the false advertisements and some refinement. Marketing will kill this game more than anything; the fact remains that based on what it says it is on the box this is a horrendous game.

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 12:46 PM
Things like this amuse me. Why do you think the Baldurs gate: dark alliance games weren't called Baldur's gate 3 and 4? Theres a reason those games aren't numbered entries to the series, and it's not that they're bad games.

What they've done here is promote this game as though it is a numbered entry, but it isn't. Not just in title either; they said that the mouse controls would be point and click, it says that the game features "fully online multiplayer" on the steam page and many other things.

This game COULD be fun without the false advertisements and some refinement. Marketing will kill this game more than anything; the fact remains that based on what it says it is on the box this is a horrendous game.


Well personally I decide if a game is good based upon how much I enjoy it not on how it was advertised to me. Apparently that is a strange concept for a lot of people though.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 12:50 PM
Well personally I decide if a game is good based upon how much I enjoy it not on how it was advertised to me. Apparently that is a strange concept for a lot of people though.

I've got some land in florida that might interest you..

Cmdr. Thanatos
06-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Well personally I decide if a game is good based upon how much I enjoy it not on how it was advertised to me. Apparently that is a strange concept for a lot of people though.

Here, drink this Mountain Dew!

(it is actually diet coke zero in a Dew can)

*SPIT!*

What is wrong?

This is NOT Mountain Dew!

Why yes, it is diet coke zero! You like diet coke zero, right?

Well yes, but-

Then what is the problem?
-------------

Now do you see the logical problem in your argument?

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Here, drink this Mountain Dew!

(it is actually diet coke zero in a Dew can)

*SPIT!*

What is wrong?

This is NOT Mountain Dew!

Why yes, it is diet coke zero! You like diet coke zero, right?

Well yes, but-

Then what is the problem?
-------------

Now do you see the logical problem in your argument?

I honestly don't care. Bioware could have called Mass Effect Baldur's Gate 3 and it wouldn't have affected my decision to buy it.

Baresark
06-11-2011, 01:37 PM
Well personally I decide if a game is good based upon how much I enjoy it not on how it was advertised to me. Apparently that is a strange concept for a lot of people though.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think the point is that as a member of a numbered series, there are certain things you expect a game to have/be. This doesn't fit into that series. I may still buy this game since I have no problem with using a 360 controller, but I want to read a full review before I commit myself to it.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 01:37 PM
I honestly don't care. Bioware could have called Mass Effect Baldur's Gate 3 and it wouldn't have affected my decision to buy it.

Now your moving the goal posts; you said you didn't get how people were expecting something based on MARKETING not on TITLE.

Even so, judging by the name dungeon siege, you think there would be some dungeon sieging goings on.

bushwhacker2k
06-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Now your moving the goal posts; you said you didn't get how people were expecting something based on MARKETING not on TITLE.

Even so, judging by the name dungeon siege, you think there would be some dungeon sieging goings on.

Inorite? It's such an obvious complaint but no one is really replying about it or giving any reasons as to why they did this. It's a shame they didn't make it a non-canon off-shoot like New Vegas, because now it's quite likely the series is dead :(

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 05:30 PM
Now your moving the goal posts; you said you didn't get how people were expecting something based on MARKETING not on TITLE.

Even so, judging by the name dungeon siege, you think there would be some dungeon sieging goings on.

You apparently didn't pay attention to the Marketing then because the game is pretty much exactly as advertised outside of some poor PC controls and the title.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 05:40 PM
You apparently didn't pay attention to the Marketing then because the game is pretty much exactly as advertised outside of some poor PC controls and the title.

LOL. O rly?

"For centuries legionnaires have protected the nation of Ehb until they were betrayed and all but driven to the brink of extinction. Now that evil has returned to Ehb the people turn to the few remaining Legionnaires for the protection of the past. As an heir to the legion will you accept this plea for help? How it will all be resolved is up to you!

Dungeon Siege III is an Action RPG that seamlessly blends intuitive fast-paced gameplay, a robust RPG system featuring a large selection of abilities, loot galore and the depth of story Square-Enix and Obsidian Entertainment are known for creating. Players will be able to adventure by themselves, on the couch with friends, or online in a fully multiplayer experience."


Thats prolly a pretty close to accurate in comparison to other arpgs amirite? :sarcasm:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22863656&postcount=14

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 05:50 PM
LOL. O rly?

"For centuries legionnaires have protected the nation of Ehb until they were betrayed and all but driven to the brink of extinction. Now that evil has returned to Ehb the people turn to the few remaining Legionnaires for the protection of the past. As an heir to the legion will you accept this plea for help? How it will all be resolved is up to you!

Dungeon Siege III is an Action RPG that seamlessly blends intuitive fast-paced gameplay, a robust RPG system featuring a large selection of abilities, loot galore and the depth of story Square-Enix and Obsidian Entertainment are known for creating. Players will be able to adventure by themselves, on the couch with friends, or online in a fully multiplayer experience."


Thats prolly a pretty close to accurate in comparison to other arpgs amirite? :sarcasm:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22863656&postcount=14

I am failing to see any false advertising in that.

It is an Action RPG.

There are 9 abilities for each class with 2 proficiencies each plus a set of talents.

I definitely didn't notice a lack of loot.

And in regard to the story you have only seen the prologue so you can hardly judge but according to the European review that are out so far while it starts off cliched it gets a lot better.

And you can adventure by yourself, with friends on the couch or online.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 06:04 PM
I am failing to see any false advertising in that.

It is an Action RPG.

There are 9 abilities for each class with 2 proficiencies each plus a set of talents.

I definitely didn't notice a lack of loot.

And in regard to the story you have only seen the prologue so you can hardly judge but according to the European review that are out so far while it starts off cliched it gets a lot better.

And you can adventure by yourself, with friends on the couch or online.

Blessed be the ignorant. You do realize you sound like an Obsidian rep right now right? "Less features is great!"

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 06:18 PM
Blessed be the ignorant. You do realize you sound like an Obsidian rep right now right? "Less features is great!"

And do you realize that you are not even making sense anymore?

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 06:37 PM
And do you realize that you are not even making sense anymore?

Explain.


You're saying that the multiplayer is multiplayer in earnest, you're say 9 skills is a lot, you're saying that the game isn't being marketed as something it's not.

If anyone here isn't making any sense, its you. Why would anyone advocate for half-hearted, half-assed dribble thats WORSE than whats been done countless times on the ps2/ xbox (Guantlet: legends, Baldurs gate: dark alliance, Baldurs Gate: dark alliance 2, Champions of Norrath to name a few)

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 08:16 PM
Explain.


You're saying that the multiplayer is multiplayer in earnest, you're say 9 skills is a lot, you're saying that the game isn't being marketed as something it's not.

If anyone here isn't making any sense, its you. Why would anyone advocate for half-hearted, half-assed dribble thats WORSE than whats been done countless times on the ps2/ xbox (Guantlet: legends, Baldurs gate: dark alliance, Baldurs Gate: dark alliance 2, Champions of Norrath to name a few)

I was pointing out that nothing they had said was a lie. It may not have met your expectations but that doesn't mean they lied to you or that there was false advertising before.

Also as far as skills and customization go there isn't really any less in DS3 than there was in Baldur's Gate dark alliance games. Its just been divided up. The Ablities/talents/proficiencies that exist in this game would simply have been individual feats in those games.

Anyways I personally am glad that they got rid of Dungeon Siege's feature of leveling up skills by using them. I find that the system is only decent in concept. I generally ends up with me having to spend time casting spells I don't want to use so that I can get my skills up to be able to use the spells I do want.

slyfox86
06-11-2011, 08:27 PM
I was pointing out that nothing they had said was a lie. It may not have met your expectations but that doesn't mean they lied to you or that there was false advertising before.

Also as far as skills and customization go there isn't really any less in DS3 than there was in Baldur's Gate dark alliance games. Its just been divided up. The Ablities/talents/proficiencies that exist in this game would simply have been individual feats in those games.

Anyways I personally am glad that they got rid of Dungeon Siege's feature of leveling up skills by using them. I find that the system is only decent in concept. I generally ends up with me having to spend time casting spells I don't want to use so that I can get my skills up to be able to use the spells I do want.

Patently untrue:


Eurogamer: The game is multiplatform. Is the PC version different in any way?

Rich Taylor: Yeah. There are certain things that are more PC-centric. The input and the controls lean more towards the PC. On the console it controls like a console game. You control your character with the analogue stick and the camera with the other analogue stick, much like most other single-player controlled games are when they come out on the consoles.

On the PC, though, players expect to be able to click and move their character around with the mouse and click on enemies. We'll certainly have it control that way. The interfaces will be mostly the same. The stat comparison available on the console will also be there on the PC. And of course the PC lends itself to higher-resolution textures and visual presentation that we're happy to take advantage of where we can.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-07-dungeon-siege-iii-more-stable-than-new-vegas-interview?page=3

"Dungeon Siege IIIís cooperative multiplayer mode is designed to be easily accessible and allow for a drop-in, drop-out multiplayer structure," explained associate producer Nathan Davis. "To bring this vision to fruition while maintaining both the deep story-based experience of the game and the balance of characters versus enemies, your single player characters will be distinct from your multiplayer characters -- however both can be persistently grown, equipped and adventured with over multiple game sessions.

http://www.destructoid.com/obsidian-explains-dungeon-siege-iii-co-op-shenanigans-195120.phtml

Two, pretty MASSIVE lies right there in my books.

bushwhacker2k
06-11-2011, 08:27 PM
I was pointing out that nothing they had said was a lie. It may not have met your expectations but that doesn't mean they lied to you or that there was false advertising before.

Also as far as skills and customization go there isn't really any less in DS3 than there was in Baldur's Gate dark alliance games. Its just been divided up. The Ablities/talents/proficiencies that exist in this game would simply have been individual feats in those games.

Anyways I personally am glad that they got rid of Dungeon Siege's feature of leveling up skills by using them. I find that the system is only decent in concept. I generally ends up with me having to spend time casting spells I don't want to use so that I can get my skills up to be able to use the spells I do want.

I'm actually a little curious why so many who have evidently played Dungeon Siege 1 + 2 and apparently hated them are even looking at DS3.

Also, reading an article or two I saw linked on here, yes, they have lied about a thing or two. Foremost, and I'm repeating myself, this ISN'T dungeon siege; they stated in one article that you'd use your mouse to click to move your character, is that the case? Also isn't any less than in DARK ALLIANCE? Do you notice anything odd about that sentence? Note: characters in this game have far fewer skills than in Dungeon Siege 2.

Also, I LOVED the system of leveling skills by using them, it's not used NEARLY often enough. I never found myself using skills I didn't like to level them.

I don't want to sound like a toddler, but, and especially with the lack of responses, it's like I'm right and you're wrong. I keep seeing it here... if you like the game, that's great, but no WAY are you going to win in a debate against people who liked the first two games.

Kaliss
06-11-2011, 11:44 PM
Patently untrue:


Eurogamer: The game is multiplatform. Is the PC version different in any way?

Rich Taylor: Yeah. There are certain things that are more PC-centric. The input and the controls lean more towards the PC. On the console it controls like a console game. You control your character with the analogue stick and the camera with the other analogue stick, much like most other single-player controlled games are when they come out on the consoles.

On the PC, though, players expect to be able to click and move their character around with the mouse and click on enemies. We'll certainly have it control that way. The interfaces will be mostly the same. The stat comparison available on the console will also be there on the PC. And of course the PC lends itself to higher-resolution textures and visual presentation that we're happy to take advantage of where we can.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-07-dungeon-siege-iii-more-stable-than-new-vegas-interview?page=3

"Dungeon Siege IIIís cooperative multiplayer mode is designed to be easily accessible and allow for a drop-in, drop-out multiplayer structure," explained associate producer Nathan Davis. "To bring this vision to fruition while maintaining both the deep story-based experience of the game and the balance of characters versus enemies, your single player characters will be distinct from your multiplayer characters -- however both can be persistently grown, equipped and adventured with over multiple game sessions.

http://www.destructoid.com/obsidian-explains-dungeon-siege-iii-co-op-shenanigans-195120.phtml

Two, pretty MASSIVE lies right there in my books.

The first one isn't a lie since you can move with the right mouse button. It is rather misleading but it is not a lie.

On the second one how do you know that is a lie since we don't have access to online multiplayer yet to verify how it works?

slyfox86
06-12-2011, 07:29 AM
The first one isn't a lie since you can move with the right mouse button. It is rather misleading but it is not a lie.

On the second one how do you know that is a lie since we don't have access to online multiplayer yet to verify how it works?

Point and click =/= point. You can't interact with anything with the mouse, which is what point and click means. Being able to move has nothing to do with it.

"It actually boils down to a very simple design decision. Do you build an online multiplayer experience where the main point is to create, keep and build your character? Or do you build a co-operative system where the main point is to experience an instance of the game together with other people? Diablo 2 is an example of the former, and then all the other design decisions follow from that - i.e. you have 'New Game+' modes to grind your character up to level 99, you have a threadbare story and a modular campaign design so it never matters that you might jump all over the plotline or kill the same boss 500 times. On the other hand, you don't expect this from BG: Dark Alliance, some of the LOTR games, heck, even a Halo co-op campaign (which, from my experience, is kept separate from its online multiplayer). In a pure co-operative experience you see design decisions that are about helping make it easy for people to play together and keep up together and experience the story and gameplay together.

As C2B says it's not an online focused ARPG, and it seems that it never has been. I'd suggest Obsidian were quite foolish to not have made this crystal clear earlier on - they should have learned from AP that when people expect your game to be something different they get pissed off. But the design decision itself is perfectly fine - DS3 simply belongs to a different type/genre than, say, Diablo 2.

Personally I wouldn't have minded either way, online MP or co-op. But if DS3 were to go the online MP route, a million things about the game would need to be changed. The level cap is 30 right now - what's the point of keeping a single player running around if he will max that early? The game is story-heavy and with lots of dialogue - that will get really really boring if you want to grind a boss 500 times Mephisto-style. So on and so forth. If we keep DS3 as the game it is now, then just change it so you can carry across your characters, what changes, really? That won't make this game WOW or Diablo 2, like some people want.

It's a case of two different philosophies with accompanying design features and player experiences."

-Mod on their forums
http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=57432&view=findpost&p=1115845

Kaliss
06-12-2011, 07:34 AM
Point and click =/= point. You can't interact with anything with the mouse, which is what point and click means. Being able to move has nothing to do with it.

"It actually boils down to a very simple design decision. Do you build an online multiplayer experience where the main point is to create, keep and build your character? Or do you build a co-operative system where the main point is to experience an instance of the game together with other people? Diablo 2 is an example of the former, and then all the other design decisions follow from that - i.e. you have 'New Game+' modes to grind your character up to level 99, you have a threadbare story and a modular campaign design so it never matters that you might jump all over the plotline or kill the same boss 500 times. On the other hand, you don't expect this from BG: Dark Alliance, some of the LOTR games, heck, even a Halo co-op campaign (which, from my experience, is kept separate from its online multiplayer). In a pure co-operative experience you see design decisions that are about helping make it easy for people to play together and keep up together and experience the story and gameplay together.

As C2B says it's not an online focused ARPG, and it seems that it never has been. I'd suggest Obsidian were quite foolish to not have made this crystal clear earlier on - they should have learned from AP that when people expect your game to be something different they get jarateed off. But the design decision itself is perfectly fine - DS3 simply belongs to a different type/genre than, say, Diablo 2.

Personally I wouldn't have minded either way, online MP or co-op. But if DS3 were to go the online MP route, a million things about the game would need to be changed. The level cap is 30 right now - what's the point of keeping a single player running around if he will max that early? The game is story-heavy and with lots of dialogue - that will get really really boring if you want to grind a boss 500 times Mephisto-style. So on and so forth. If we keep DS3 as the game it is now, then just change it so you can carry across your characters, what changes, really? That won't make this game WOW or Diablo 2, like some people want.

It's a case of two different philosophies with accompanying design features and player experiences."

-Mod on their forums
http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=57432&view=findpost&p=1115845

You do realize that the Mods are not Obsidian Employees and don't know anything more than any other person on the forums?

slyfox86
06-12-2011, 07:46 AM
You do realize that the Mods are not Obsidian Employees and don't know anything more than any other person on the forums?

Take a look around next time before you ask for proof of something thats been said numerous times and has been confirmed by numerous news outlets. Not going to repost a bunch of stuff just because you're too lazy to look.

Rokenroleg
06-12-2011, 03:01 PM
How dare you sully the name of Dark Alliance by comparing it to this tripe. =\

ih8registration
06-12-2011, 03:12 PM
I liked the demo for what it is, Dark Alliance 3. I won't be paying $50 for it, but when it hits $10 in the bargain bins, I'll pick it up.

bushwhacker2k
06-12-2011, 03:50 PM
How dare you sully the name of Dark Alliance by comparing it to this tripe. =\

I was actually thinking this here and there but got distracted by other points.

I LOVED Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 + 2, great games, great multiplayer.

I liked the demo for what it is, Dark Alliance 3. I won't be paying $50 for it, but when it hits $10 in the bargain bins, I'll pick it up.

You see? THIS makes sense, maybe the game does appeal to a few people, but I'm startled at the amount of people pre-ordering it when it has so many points against it. Hell, even with my complaints I might get it at 5-10$.