Alice: Madness Returns is a FREAKIN' MESS!!! (review)

[Anzariel]

I'm not gonna go on forever about why this game sucks. Standart idendity crysis hits a lot of sequels, and this one is not spared. It's main problem (and probably the only one) is that it is trying to be everything else. It doesn't need to be, and EA failed to realise that. The original Alice was perfect. Sure, it have it's flaws, but it never stopped me from enjoying it. This one feels like it is holding my hand to make sure I'm not getting lost. Using our brains is too difficult for us, they may say XD

So, I'm gonna go point by point (as I usually do) and list what annoys me the most. I'm sure some of you guys will think of something else, so feel free to comment about it.

SO, what annoys me the most, in order of annoyance:

1: WASTING MY ♥♥♥♥ING TIME, "SIMON'S QUEST" STYLE BABY!
2: Endless collectibles (refer to point 1)
3: Story is pointless
4: Useless combat system
5: EVERYTHING ELSE

So, first two points annoys me to no end. Any players remember Banjo Kazooie? Well, Alice: Madness Returns feels like that, but without the good music, or the free exploration, of the comedy, or whatever else which made Banjo Kazooie good. There is collectibles everywhere, secret rooms, more collectibles, teeth (which serves as money), bottles, MOAR STUFF TO GRAB GOD DAMN IT IT NEVER STOPS!?!?!%!%!%

Here's why this feels like Simon's quest. It's ♥♥♥♥in' farming to increase your weapons, which is useless btw. I actually played on hard without upgrading any weapons at all. In fact, you're saving a lot of time just ignoring all of these secret rooms. I DID end up upgrading my stuff, but nothing feels rewarding. You just attack faster, or fire faster with your "pepper machine gun". No special moves or spells or different gameplay mechanics, nothing like that. More DPS, that's it. So at this point you pretty much wasted your time for no reason at all.

However, even if you ignore the collectibles, the game will still waste your time. Repetitive puzzles which offers no challenge at all, switch hunting to unlock a path that leads to another switch, and another switch, and so un until you complete the chapter, and in the next chapter it's platforming to activate switches all over again. You never "feel" like going forward, and sometimes they make you turn in a big circle just to waste your time. You actually come back to the start, expecting a boss battle. But nope, nothing like that. Just a small cinematic, and the chapter ends. OH, well thank you for taking my time like that EA. Just keep it all, I insist.

In short, You never have any sort of concrete goal to accomplish. In the first game, every actions you complete leads to the next part of the story, and the game never FELT like wasting your time. There was some puzzles, sure, but at least they were entertaining and there's about 15 of them in the entire game. Here it's about a hundred of them, and it's all the same.

_______

POINT THREE is also a bother. In the first game it was all about this insane quest to defeat your inner madness and restoring your sanity. Characters who were previously gentle and intriguing are now abominable creatures who only dream of squashing you into a pretty stain. Or burst your ears. In the end, it offered an interesting story with a couple of twists, interesting characters, and that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cat XD

In Madness Returns, the story is...well....is there even one to begin with? Sure, they establish that Wonderland is corrupted, that Alice is crazy and dark and haz creepy eyes, but..... NOTHING HAPPENS! She just visits parts of Wonderlands because she...feels like it? Iono, at some point she have hallucinations, which causes her to fall through the ground, and she bunny hops beside a river, and she comes back to the real world and acts as if nothing....happened. WUT?

Ok, so I didn't finished the game yet, But I'm deep into the third chapter and still I'm not really sure of what is happening, or if it's for good reasons, or if it's important. I understand the Train and what it represents, and I get why Wonderland is transforming, but that's not a story. That's retaking stuff in the first game and making echoes of what happened there. In the first game, things were clear from the start: Queen of hearts is going bat ♥♥♥♥ crazy and you need to stop her in order to regain your sanity. Neat. The game is STILL mental, but now that we have a firm goal, we can enjoy everything else.

But in Madness Returns, things...happens. You help people because they ask you to, and when you're done you get back to the real world where some other things happens, and then you go back to Wonderland where something else happens, and...

Through all of that, the player never feels like accomplishing something. And I'm not even talking about the cinematics where, you guessed it, nothing happens. Sometimes it's someone talking about Alice's mental case, sometimes it's a character in Wonderland talking about something we must do for them. Nothing constructive.

And don't get me started on boss battles. There is no boss battles at all...

_____

POINT FOUR (the combat system) is the greatest asset of the game. It feels inventive, fluid and....oh, wait, you're telling me that there's about dozens of games like that now?

If you want a good answer for this point....Darksiders. It's a Darksiders clone. Just spam the main attack button and everyone dies. Since dying is never penalising, risk is not there. Also, the weapons are bland, generic, and you can't even play with your combos. At least Darksiders gave us the decency of being creative with different attack patterns.

But here, every weapons have a single combo, even if you upgrade them, which is solely used to stun-lock opponents which makes them defenseless You have the Vorpal Blade (aka War's standart sword) to dispatch small enemies, then you have the horse hammer (aka War's power gloves.....it's so bad XD) for enemies with shields or other protections. Your machine gun....oh, pepper grinder, sorry... is used to fight flying targets, so you shoot them, and they die, and they give teeth so you can upgrade your already bland weapons so that they can do a better job, and....Damn it's happening all over again!

Sure, sometimes there's a "bigger" foe, but nothing challenging. And even if he's about to hit you, just SPAM the living *&?% of that dodge key and he'll never even scratch you. Considering that Darksiders is a ripoff of about 10 games, then it would mean that Madness Returns is a ripoff of a ripoff. Great :S


Now, everyone remembers the combat system in the first Alice? Yeah, there was no combat system, it was all about using your super clever awesome brain and thinking for a second. Enemies are rushing towards you? then fry them with your flaming music box! Enemies are overpowering you? then make use of these super convenient super awesome diabolical dices (my favorite weapon in the game) to give them a SPIICYY surprise! Enemies are shooting you to death and you're getting tired of it? then simply use your freezing staff to create a solid wall of ice and hide behind it!

Having a mana gauge was akin to NOT SPAM TO WIN! You had to think about your actions. Don't waste weapons, don't rush, and you'll live. Hell, the battles were satisfying too! Throwing a music box so that it would bounce on a wall and land right under their balls (and violently explode) was so great! The weapon selection (all nine of them) was unique, inventing and fun to use. AND every weapons were useful in certain situations. Unlike another game, where it feels like Dead Space 2.5 "my unborn little girl is fighting monsters" game.


And that's it, pretty much. I could go on forever about annoying cinematics trying to scare you by violently zooming into someone's eye, or people VIOLENTLY turning around with a zoom right in their face, desperately trying to scare you or whatever. Now, to be fair there is some good points about this game. The soundtrack is akin to the first one, even if the number of memorable songs is limited, the artwork is great (probably the only reason why you should buy the game, if you're REALLY into it), but nothing is reedeming enough for me to suggest the game. In short, as I said at the beginning, Madness Returns suffers a critical identity crysis, which is really sad for both the fans and EA. Stick to the original game XD

[tretoso]

Played Simon's quest a lot, good times.

[Nimbulan]

The original Alice was perfect. Sure, it have it's flaws

I stopped taking you seriously after this.

[XaresAssassin]

meh..
You are forgetting that Spicy Horse was the developer.
American Mcgee was the designer and the core makers.

You are blaming things on EA when they are only a publisher lol, stop giving EA all the credit for making the game too.

[blackforce]

too bad go play something else and stop crying like a little girl.

[XaresAssassin]

Also I forgot to mention about this review.

Please do not diss Cheshire in your review.
Also the pink hearts in your review, also have a high chance of convincing people not to take your review seriously. IMO

The word ripoff in the review is not really the term you should use IMO. It's called incorporating ideas from other games or the including of References to other games.

[AMC_Duke]

There is nothing wrong with this game except for the circle through the enemys when in lock on mode

[Anzariel]

I stopped taking you seriously after this.

Bad collision detection, bugs, and anything else like that. these are flaws, but they don't have anything to do with the game's core.

[Anzariel]

The word ripoff in the review is not really the term you should use IMO. It's called incorporating ideas from other games or the including of References to other games.

Dante's inferno is incorporating ideas from other games, it's a better example of what isn't a rip-off.

Or Terraria Vs Minecraft, that is also a good one. As for Darksiders, all went well until the Star Fox level. Or the portal gun, for those more familiar with Valve.

[Anzariel]

meh..
You are forgetting that Spicy Horse was the developer.
American Mcgee was the designer and the core makers.

You are blaming things on EA when they are only a publisher lol, stop giving EA all the credit for making the game too.

True. However, EA still published it. You should also know that they supported the project, aka spying on Spicy Horse and their progress.

Ultimately, they should've either abandon the project or give it to someone else. That's how SlaughterHouse turned out (different company, similar exemple)

[Anzariel]

too bad go play something else and stop crying like a little girl.

But I am playing something else. Star Fox 64, to be exact. Good times XD

[MADDOGGE]

Learn to play OP. I have played the original off and on for years. It's a platforming game. You seem to be confused as to what a platforming game is all about. Alice 2 is very Alice and does a fine job as a sequel.

[gentlefury]

The original Alice was perfect. Sure, it have it's flaws, but it never stopped me from enjoying it.

You obviously didn't play the original Alice because all I can think while playing part 2 is how faithful it is to the original!

[VampireCactus]

the weapons are bland, generic,

Yeah, man, I'm sick of all these fresh-ground-pepper shooters. Dime a dozen. Give us something unique, like semi-automatic rifles.

[IsEnough]

Spellcheck imo.

[ninjikiran]

The first game was just annoying to be honest, only decent part were some clever boss fights. Unfortunately those go to the wayside once you get magic jacks.

[enemyofportal]

what are you arguing with? it's actually the game for grown(?) kid like me. don't you know wonderland, Alice story? what's your point? it's a her freaking dream. you are just fallen into her imagination, play for fun. so story pointless actually makes sense. I like it. sometimes, you can get out of the dream, and walk around the town in reality, and get back to the dream again.

[DGX24]

...Ok, so I didn't finished the game yet, But...

:rolleyes:

[nesco1801]

Yeah, man, I'm sick of all these fresh-ground-pepper shooters. Dime a dozen. Give us something unique, like semi-automatic rifles.

Indeed :D

They said it couldn’t be done, but Bioware did it anyway. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/11/17/incredible-bioware-reveal-man-with-gun/)

[Caiobrz]

Thanks for the excellent review. I didn't know if I would buy the game being a huge fan of the original game, but now I'm pretty sure it will be worth EVERY PENNY. Every single punk-rhetoric-whine you wrote about is a homage on how this game SHOULD (and SEEMS) to be:

ALICE IN (twisted) WONDERLAND

Congrats EA and designers on yet another game that FITS WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO FIT. This is not "Aliens versus super soldiers" or "Mariners versus Iraqis", its WONDERLAND

p.s.: Totally agree with nesco1801, the world lacks new innovative games where a man have a gun, like a semi-automatic. :rolleyes:

[blackforce]

Yeah, man, I'm sick of all these fresh-ground-pepper shooters. Dime a dozen. Give us something unique, like semi-automatic rifles.

why don't you go play cod, moh uh any shooter,duke? you might even like that crap game. they are all the same.

[Reviz]

why don't you go play cod, moh uh any shooter,duke? you might even like that crap game. they are all the same.

You obviously can't tell when someone is being sarcastic.

[blackforce]

You obviously can't tell when someone is being sarcastic.
oh sorry i was thinking i clicked the other guy, my bad been working all dammn night.

[Rampage76]

"I'm not going to go on forever"....(insert wall of forever text)

Funny review dood. lol!

[Rhuri]

Wait. You're in the third chapter and you're making a review on a game you haven't finished yet? LMAO

Wait till you finish the game before you start complaing about the "lack" of storyline. It really starts becoming more apparent in the second chapter, but since you're not collecting the memories, you wouldn't actually know that, would you?

I just finished it and I loved it. The developing story had a few twists in it, and, if you go looking around, there's a few great easter eggs hiding within the levels.

[WereWalrus]

Just finished the game myself, awesome!

[w00lp69]

im like half through the game and this is one of the finest games i've ever seen and i have seen many till back in the days even before 3d graphics existed
the artwork, the story, the voice acting, the gameplay, the humor, the sound and music - can only be described as great
the only thing i dislike about this game are the somewhat sluggish and delayed controls via mouse

your review is nothing but a bad joke in my opinion
you seem to be one of the "well they don't have content so lets fill up everything missing with useless achievements"-f@nboys
achievements are sometimes a pest to computer games - quite often only implemented to distract people from a lack of content and forcing them to repeat certain parts of the game 100s of times - achievements to me for example where the beginning of the end of a playable WoW
and if you like achievements you have the unlockable parts of the story (once again funny and with great voice acting, though i have to say that only the english version is that great - tried the german version and it didn't come any close to the original. so i stick to the english version and i have to say even if my english ain't that bad sometimes i have a hard time with the high standard english used in dialogs and story sequences)

this game's developers created a piece of modern art - and if you ever did try to ride the snake you will find double the magic within the journey of alice through a morbid but funny adult version of wonderland

for me clearly one of THE games of 2011
denying the quality of this product is like criticising the book of a great classical author - simply because you personally dont like the language the author used - hell yeah f*** dostojewski's demon's because its russian

another thing is the performance issues many complain about
ati users who dislike the perfomance drops when using physx-high? well you decided to save 100-200 bucks and bought ati and now you complain? yeah technically ati may be fine but the nvidia intro in nearly every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game and the optimizations that come along with it speak for themselves (btw i have a hd5870 and i have 100+ fps without and 60 fps constantly with vsync (physx - low)
yes the game looks GREAT with physx high but face the facts ...
this game is like the dream of a nightmare - but those open in mind will love this journey through wonderland
to me 8-9/10

[enemyofportal]

I thought that review can be done only when you finished entire game. other than that, you don't know what's poppin up or good or bad. that's like ♥♥♥♥ing preview. I just finished it this morning. the game is great in my opinion. only littler annoying thing was 2D games. I don't like or like either (just can't decide). some control issue with keyboard made me dying a lot. this is another annoying. sometimes, I feel like testing my patience.

[Graeystone]

Just finished the game myself, awesome!

Just beat it myself and have to say, "That's how a villain should be done!"

[moto74]

I'm a bit broke at the moment and I wasn't sure whether to buy this or not. Well I'm sure now - it sounds great!

Hmm. Just checked the bank account. I am too skint atm.

To the wishlist with you Alice!

[HorrorScope]

OP - "I'm not gonna go on forever "

You went on forever...

[Solaris1493]

But from what I've seen it's a perfectly good sequel to the original...
Also, it pains me to see more than one person using "crysis" in place of "crisis." Really.

[oh_dont_mind_me]

But from what I've seen it's a perfectly good sequel to the original...
Also, it pains me to see more than one person using "crysis" in place of "crisis." Really.

you give people too much credit, most are duller than you think...

[Sciffer]

I don't get what ppl are complaining about. I got the game and it is pretty damn good. It is maybe not for everyone's liking, but neither is god of war and lots of ppl seem to like it. The issues? I found only real issues. Which is bottle ratio to extra content is odd but you can hardly call that an issue and 2nd one is no boss fights which is again not such a big deal.
Now on those points. 1) Collectibles are good part of the game... If there were non ppl would complain there is not enough things but just going through the lvl. Ppl always find something to complain about. Everyone seem to forget that it is a platformer(yes I know it's not a word) game on the big part. If you enjoy those you will enjoy this. Besides if you don't then just don't collect anything, no one is forcing you :/. 2)Upgrades kinda made game more fun for me so idk what anyone can not like about it. Even if you don't get any secret places you still will be able to max like 2 weapons or more so I don't really see an issue here again. 3)Story is pointless? This is where it gets funny. I am not even done with the game and I can see the story pretty well as it's point and it's pretty nice to actually find wtf happened to alice really. If you calling finding out who burned your family pointless then well, you should be in next squeal to this game called "Wtf is your problem?". Would anyone rather like to see story of the first game replayed? Then ppl would say how there is nothing new. Also "But in Madness Returns, things...happens. You help people because they ask you to, and when you're done you get back to the real world where some other things happens, and then you go back to Wonderland where something else happens, and..." yeah thats called madness... Also nothing happens? Ok refer back to my point finding out what actually happened to her. 4)Combat is bad? lol really? Ok for one there is more then 1 combo. You switch between weapons for that (blade and horse mainly). Still there is not many combos even then but does that makes it any worse? Not to me. Many games like that? Any game right now is like some other game. Take any shooter game and it is like any other shooter game. I would actually like to hear of games that are NOT like other games. Since when it made them bad anyways? Btw horse is not bad lol. Only let down as I said is no boss battles. 5) Everything else? Seem pretty good to me. You do realize ppl are just nit picking on this game, right? Texture issues? Many games do now. DMC3 is a master piece and it got some and it does not bother me or any gamer that can appreciate stuff. Being stuck? happens only if you are died in the rose room and well just make a step to the side and it fixes(wow what a huge issue lol). Game too long? I am pretty sure I saw lots of posts on other games where ppl complain how short they are lol. A long game now a days is a miracle so thats last thing anyone should complain about. I actually like to spend a few days slowly playing a game then spending 50 bucks and beating it in 5 hours and never play it again. Ppl seem to miss a best part of the game, environment. It's stunning, you got to have complete absence of of mind creativity and art appreciation to deny this. If ppl just stopped for a moment in the game and looked around instead of rushing through screaming then they would see how amazing it is. To me it is one of the major things in the game which made it amazing. I did not played the first game but watched vids. This game is a good sequel. Only thing that stops it from being master piece is no boss fights. It is not your everyday game and maybe not for everyone but that does not make it bad.

[MADDOGGE]

Indeed :D

They said it couldn’t be done, but Bioware did it anyway. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/11/17/incredible-bioware-reveal-man-with-gun/)I love that song "The Man with The Gun":D:D:cool:



A platformer without lots of collectibles. Simply not done. Pifff!

[Caiobrz]

Gz sciffer on morbid threads necromancer of the week xD xD 3 month old thread.

The OP I didn't care to read, anyone using too much swear to ARGUE is not really worth of my time. As for your post, I also didn't read, ever read about a key called "Enter"?

MADDOGGE, thanks for the news on that bioware awesome information, I never thought they would eventually make a game with man with a gun =o oh my plataformer with collectibles? really? where? >.>

=D

[Jag Gentleman]

Some people hates this game, some people loves this game.
I personally love this game, some plataforming bored me a bit but meh, it worths :cool:

[Friendliest]

...and EA failed to realise that...

Yeah... good old EA.......


they fail to realize stuff. :/

[Zwentibold]

OP made his point and argued it. The comments after that are in the great majority not helpfull (by the way "professional" reviewers spend a couple of hours trying the game before commenting it, not more reliable than a guy that didn't finish it, obviously because he doesn't enjoy it). As I get it's the repetitive easy puzzles and lack of story the main issues. Well, as good as the graphic work seems to be, I guess I'll save my money for now.
Thanks for the review.

[Graeystone]

If there is a downside to Madness its the fault of either EA, Spicy Horse, or both, not the game - screwing the vast majority of fans/players with the pre-order bonues(HD Alice 1). In a lame attempt to push their on 'steam system', they practically blocked everyone else. A certain line in one of the files has to has to changed or whatever just to be able to access the bonus Costumes/Weapons and that's just for the PC. If you have a PS3 or X-Box. . .SOL!

Granted a lot of pre-order bonuses in the majority of games tends to be junked up hype, the stuff offered for Madness was pretty good.

[Potatochobit]

so many dumb people in this thread

Alice: Madness Returns got bad reviews from most all review sites for a reason
just because she's hot doesn't make the game better (not that much)
it is still worthwhile to have and play through but don't go making up excuses that people dont like it because they dont understand platformers

this game is not an FPS and it is a platformer - a BAD platformer
any platformer where you can triple, quadruple, infinite jump and float from the very start is BAD

[neuromancer]

I don't get what ppl are complaining about. I got the game and it is pretty damn good. It is maybe not for everyone's liking, but neither is god of war and lots of ppl seem to like it. The issues? I found only real issues. Which is bottle ratio to extra content is odd but you can hardly call that an issue and 2nd one is no boss fights which is again not such a big deal.
Now on those points. 1) Collectibles are good part of the game... If there were non ppl would complain there is not enough things but just going through the lvl. Ppl always find something to complain about. Everyone seem to forget that it is a platformer(yes I know it's not a word) game on the big part. If you enjoy those you will enjoy this. Besides if you don't then just don't collect anything, no one is forcing you :/. 2)Upgrades kinda made game more fun for me so idk what anyone can not like about it. Even if you don't get any secret places you still will be able to max like 2 weapons or more so I don't really see an issue here again. 3)Story is pointless? This is where it gets funny. I am not even done with the game and I can see the story pretty well as it's point and it's pretty nice to actually find wtf happened to alice really. If you calling finding out who burned your family pointless then well, you should be in next squeal to this game called "Wtf is your problem?". Would anyone rather like to see story of the first game replayed? Then ppl would say how there is nothing new. Also "But in Madness Returns, things...happens. You help people because they ask you to, and when you're done you get back to the real world where some other things happens, and then you go back to Wonderland where something else happens, and..." yeah thats called madness... Also nothing happens? Ok refer back to my point finding out what actually happened to her. 4)Combat is bad? lol really? Ok for one there is more then 1 combo. You switch between weapons for that (blade and horse mainly). Still there is not many combos even then but does that makes it any worse? Not to me. Many games like that? Any game right now is like some other game. Take any shooter game and it is like any other shooter game. I would actually like to hear of games that are NOT like other games. Since when it made them bad anyways? Btw horse is not bad lol. Only let down as I said is no boss battles. 5) Everything else? Seem pretty good to me. You do realize ppl are just nit picking on this game, right? Texture issues? Many games do now. DMC3 is a master piece and it got some and it does not bother me or any gamer that can appreciate stuff. Being stuck? happens only if you are died in the rose room and well just make a step to the side and it fixes(wow what a huge issue lol). Game too long? I am pretty sure I saw lots of posts on other games where ppl complain how short they are lol. A long game now a days is a miracle so thats last thing anyone should complain about. I actually like to spend a few days slowly playing a game then spending 50 bucks and beating it in 5 hours and never play it again. Ppl seem to miss a best part of the game, environment. It's stunning, you got to have complete absence of of mind creativity and art appreciation to deny this. If ppl just stopped for a moment in the game and looked around instead of rushing through screaming then they would see how amazing it is. To me it is one of the major things in the game which made it amazing. I did not played the first game but watched vids. This game is a good sequel. Only thing that stops it from being master piece is no boss fights. It is not your everyday game and maybe not for everyone but that does not make it bad.

I'll just leave this here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph


so many dumb people in this thread


And the award for most ironic statement in the thread goes to....

[Caiobrz]

so many dumb people in this thread

...

Alice: Madness Returns got bad reviews from most all review sites for a reason

Average 7.5 on 30 "professional" reviews, which casually is considered "very good", Average 8.6 on "user" 178 reviews.

Oh so very bad reviews =(

[AeddGynvael]

just because she's hot doesn't make the game better

Yes, because the main argument against your claims the game sucks we've all put up as extremely valid is Alice being pretty or "hot", as you put it.
Definetely.
You got us there, mate.
You sly mastermind you.

[alehm]

I'm not gonna go on forever about why this game sucks.......

Then you proceed to type a huge wall of text. I don't even own this game and can't take your criticism seriously. Your openeing sentence to your readers isn't even honest.

[Ilovevotekickin]

I haven't played this, but I don't remind the first Alice being a perfect game. The artwork was perfect, the story was ok, but the third-person control & camera was kinda ♥♥♥♥ty.

[savagegreywolf]

I stopped taking you seriously after this.

Yes, that is exactly where I stopped reading.

[MusicNote]

The constant grammar mistakes made this review extremely unreadable for me. Also the use of things like : XD, #*%*@%($, ect.

Be more serious next time, please.

[bdo7]

I haven't had any technical issues with the game, though I've only put about 4 hours in so far. This thread and a couple others ALMOST kept me from buying it at the sale price, but I'm so glad I did. I haven't enjoyed a platformer this much since Psychonauts.

These people are right, by the way: if you want folks to take you seriously on an English forum, please use English as opposed to troll-speak. No one is asking you to write an English essay, but don't just roll your face across the keyboard. ;)

[DuckieMcduck]

Bad collision detection, bugs, and anything else like that. these are flaws, but they don't have anything to do with the game's core.

wut‏‏‏

[sub7th]

I'm just getting started but so far I'm digging it.

Game is fun, cool art like the first one but with better graphics.
Script writers need to get backhanded and the voice acting is 50-50 depends on the actor. But that was the case in the first one too.

I was kind of hoping that since this is a new crazy town that the characters would look different too. Tribal psycho Cheshire cat was cool the first time but I was ready for a new scary this time around.

I disagree with the OP, it's not what I hoped for but it's still a fun little romp, definitely worth the sale price tag.

[cdoublejj]

It doesn't need to be, and EA failed to realise that.

i stopped reading after this. not only do i think it's one of the few rare games that stick the to the original it has beautiful art work and sound. i'm saddened it doesn't come with the original remastered. EA had nothing to do with making this game other than publishing you tard.

You are right about collision but, hardly does it rear it's head when i play only some times to i hang up when passing really close to something i just tap the controls and i'm unhooked.

I really like this game iw wish we could mod/hack the steam version to the complete collection edition.

[NeverwinterMoon]

I just read only a few first sentences, realized I couldn't take the review seriously and stopped. But I wanna comment on what I've read. Namely, this part: "holding my hand to make sure I'm not getting lost. Using our brains is too difficult for us, they may say". I'm just curious, are you playing any new games at all? I can't see how you can blame EA or even Spicy Horse for what the game industry has turned out to be a long time ago already.

Every new big game is pretty much casual, every game tries to lead the player so he or she wouldn't get lost. That's only because the average video game player needs that guidance. Now even those scarce point-and-click adventures that are being released have a built-in solutions for all the puzzles present, no matter how easy they are.

Oh, and as for collectibles and stuff - remember, this is a console game first of all. All console games nowadays have achievements, and including collectibles is the easiest way to provide the achievement material. People are crazy for their achievements/trophies, they don't care what are they collecting as long as there's an achievement waiting at the end.

Still, in the end, this game stands out from most of the console games of late. Stands out in the very best way, that is. I'm 10 hours into the game now and enjoying it to a great extent. I'm a big fan of Phychonauts (has to be the best game in the genre) and Alice is very similar to Tim Schafer's masterpiece. Heck, you can even stumble upon Raz, Phsychonauts' protagonist, while exploring the Queen's castle in Alice. That was a nice touch.

[Dusksoverture]

I just got started playing last Thursday, but I love the game already. The atmosphere and art direction, in particular, is amazing. I find myself running around and examining the world solely for the quirky/macabre things that I can find.

The combat reminds me a lot of previous Zelda titles. You have a basic 3-combo sword attack, a shield-reflect, time-bombs and a combat dodge-roll. One-on-one, things are very easy to defeat, however the difficulty (and fun) comes from fighting multiple creatures simultaneously, all of which have different ways that you need to deal with them.

For instance, last night I was at the part of the game where you need to retrieve the Mad Hatter's legs, and after jumping through the thwomping bulkheads I landed on a platform that spawned a Menacing Ruin, 3-4 Ruins, one Eyepot and two Bolterfly nests on it. I couldn’t just tunnel-vision on the Ruins and then on the Bolterflies, and then the Eyepot, etc. As I was engaging one of the foes, the remaining were proceeding to kick my ♥♥♥ in because I was failing to react to them. I was thinking that I could ignore them until my target was dead, and I was very much wrong. I would try to focus on the Ruins because they were blocking my path, but then would get held down by the Bolterflies or get knocked down by the Eyepot. I would try to take out the Bolterflies, and get blindsided by the Menacing Ruin. I would then attempt to focus on simply reflecting the Menacing Ruin's fireballs, but would become overwhelmed by the swarming Ruins & Bolterflies.

After a few failed attempts, I figured out that I wanted to get rid of the Bolterfly nests first, lest I be continually swarmed by flies that would pin me down, so I went for them first. It was a lot of fun juggling the Ruins & flies, evading a charge from the Menacing Ruin, stunning the Eyepot with my Peppergun to buy some time, knocking out a nest and then quickly popping my Umbrella to reflect a MR fireball that was about to hit me before having to turn my attention to a Ruin and fly that had flanked me. I constantly had to be on the move, juggle targets, butterfly-dodging counterattacks and reflecting projectiles. The various moves are rather simple on their own, but needing to tie them all together into a fluid poetry of battle is what ultimately makes the game fun for me. You’re not simply spamming attacks. You have to react to what *all* of your foes are doing and respond accordingly, whether it is cutting your attack off short in order to block a projectile, counter-attacking, dodging a big attack, or repositioning yourself in order to regain the upper hand.

[Annoying Fan]

You are entitled to your opinion and although a bit aggressively you do voice your thoughts quite clearly and have a point in some of the things you say. I haven't finished the game yet but I really like it. I guess I was hooked when I saw the first trailer and am overlooking some faults in the game just to be able to keep enjoying it.

[AnnoyedDragon]

Most of my issues with Alice is on the technical side. They really didn't give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about the PC version, at all. The game stinks of a ill thought out cut and paste.

The art asset quality is crap. Even for a console game, its embarrassing how bad some textures and polygon counts are. I don't need the game to look bleeding edge, but there are some textures that could pass as being upscaled from the original. Minimal effort has been put into this games asset quality, which considering the praise the original got for its textures in 2000; is just sad.

Considering the above, the optimization is terrible. It never ceases to amaze me how incompetent and lazy developers; somehow keep managing to make console ports suffer from performance problems on PC. I have a Athlon II quad core processor, 3GB ram and a GF GTX 460. This hardware is MANY times more powerful than consoles, so why does a game that has received NO technical enhancements have performance drops on a PC like mine? With PhysX off? It's incompetence, there is no excuse whatsoever. It's an embarrassment for a system like mine to struggle with a game like this, I should be getting 60fps locked with PhysX off.

And I don't consider engine config tweaks a counter argument. Customers shouldn't have to keep fixing games that developers couldn't be arsed to take 10 minutes to config correctly. Having to delve into the config is becoming a mandatory requirement with today's ♥♥♥♥ty ports, instead of something just the hardcore would do to get those little extra frames.

Add that with the 16:9 forced aspect ratio, the lock on orientated controls, the lack of filtering options and crappy fake AA, the locked 31fps frame rate (which makes no sense, why 31 and not 30?) and who knows what else I've probably forgotten while writing this. And Alice is a perfect example of the typical shoddy work that this generation has put out. A previous PC exclusive, 100% designed for consoles; and then crudely cut over at the absolute minimal cost.

I regard this as being the worst games generation I have ever experienced, and what they did with Alice 2 is just another example. Another crude, cheap, half arsed console port that has tinged my otherwise positive memories of this games predecessor. Even the reviews I've seen have given it a lower score than the original. Is the game itself terrible? No, it's been made easier; but it's not terrible. But you have to take a machete with you to cut through the jungle of crap that developer incompetence has inflicted on this game. It makes you feel like a consumer tool given "good enough" products; rather than a valued customer. I'm surprised they didn't throw three non-renewable DRM activations in, just to really jarate off their PC fanbase.

Is it any wonder I haven't bought any new games for months, and even when I bought this one; it was on offer? I'm getting tired of sub standard quality games that demand immediate patches even on release, if you are lucky to actually get a patch of course.

How many crappy console ports am I supposed to tolerate? Today's games market is something else entirely from when McGee's Alice came out. EA actually cared about PC back then, and they actually took the time to produce a quality product.

[AeddGynvael]

The game runs flawlessly without any tweaks on a GT 525M with physX at Medium with no engine tweaks.

Your argument is invalid AND the problem is in your system.
By the way, ever heard of physX?

As for
It's an embarrassment for a system like mine to struggle with a game like this, I should be getting 60fps locked with PhysX off.



You answered your own complaint later on:

Add that with the locked 31fps frame rate (which makes no sense, why 31 and not 30?)

[AnnoyedDragon]

The game runs flawlessly without any tweaks on a GT 525M with physX at Medium with no engine tweaks.

Your argument is invalid AND the problem is in your system.
By the way, ever heard of physX?

As for


You answered your own complaint later on:

You always get people like you in threads like this, always someone who thinks their personal lack of any technical problems invalidates anyone else's claims of having problems.

And no, I did not invalidate my own complaint. Even with the frame rate lock set to 60, I only get the 40s.

[AnnoyedDragon]

The game runs flawlessly without any tweaks on a GT 525M with physX at Medium with no engine tweaks.

Your argument is invalid AND the problem is in your system.
By the way, ever heard of physX?

As for


You answered your own complaint later on:

You always get people like you in threads like this, always someone who thinks their personal lack of any technical problems invalidates anyone else's claims of having problems.

And no, I did not invalidate my own complaint. Even with the frame rate lock set to 60, I only get the 40s. Also, unless there were significant physx performance improvements in the 5 series, I call BS on not getting any frame drops on medium physx. No way a mobile chipset isn't seeing performance drops, when I get the teens during heavy physx scenes on medium, in particular when up close with the pepper grinder.

[AeddGynvael]

You always get people like you in threads like this, always someone who thinks their personal lack of any technical problems invalidates anyone else's claims of having problems.
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.

And no, I did not invalidate my own complaint. Even with the frame rate lock set to 60, I only get the 40s.
40s is absolutely normal if physX is set to High if you've got older parts.I've seen "reviews" (for a lack of better word) that touched specifically on the physX effects and some of them reported that even with single GTX 470s, in very intense sequences their framerates dropped in the 20s.
Comes as no real surprise to me.
This is, by far the game that uses the most physX effects yet and actually utilizes most of the potential of the technology, unlike games like Arkham Asylum, for example, where the difference wasn't even nearly as big.
The Pepper Grinder smoke is the biggest memory hog, it seems.

However if you're getting awful drops with physX at Low, the problem definetely is in your PC, because many people with much weaker machines have reported the game runs just fine without additional physX eyecandy.


You said earlier on: And I don't consider engine config tweaks a counter argument. Customers shouldn't have to keep fixing games that developers couldn't be arsed to take 10 minutes to config correctly.


You never implied you've tweaked any settings at all.Therefore, you DID invalidate your complaint.

You can call "BS" all you want to, I'll keep enjoying the game running smoothly maxed out on my laptop, without tweaking the config files nonetheless. (Core i7 @ 3.1/core, 6 GB DDR3 RAM, GT 525M 1GB).

[Silvernis]

It's been running almost flawlessly for me (a few sporadic glitches, nothing more), and overall, I have to say I'm loving it. It gets a bit clunky at times, and my general lack of platformer experience/skill often works against me, but it's still a lot of fun. I'm not usually too fussy about graphics, so I think it generally looks quite good.

[AnnoyedDragon]

snip

This game is running at 40fps with physx set on low, and if it is set to just medium; the pepper grinder can destroy frame rate. There is nothing wrong with my PC, the hardware is fine with every game; and the drivers are up to date.

The problem is Alice itself, which is just another example of a badly optimized console port, of which there are numerous examples this generation. This is typical of games now. That you personally don't encounter problems on a GPU that is quite frankly inferior to mine; is of zero relevance to me, when I've got my own system to judge performance. As I said, there is always people like you, always.

Quite frankly looking at this game, I should probably be getting 100fps+, because the graphics themselves are sub standard. The suggestion that throwing advanced physics in makes it ok to dip down into the 20s on a 470 is absurd. It's a console port with no visual enhancements, it shouldn't stress modern PC hardware in the slightest.

I quite frankly predicted that BS like this was going to happen back in 2007, during the physics technology wars. I said if Nvidia ever got control of advanced physics in games, it would be bloatware designed to sell SLI. Surprise surprise, that's exactly what has happened. A freaking none-enhanced console port needs dual top of the line graphics cards just to max smoothly with physx...

[AeddGynvael]

Quite frankly looking at this game, I should probably be getting 100fps+, because the graphics themselves are sub standard. The suggestion that throwing advanced physics in makes it ok to dip down into the 20s on a 470 is absurd. It's a console port with no visual enhancements, it shouldn't stress modern PC hardware in the slightest.

All the additional physX eyecandy is "no visual enhancements"?
Wow.Okay if you say so.
I said that the low framerates with physX at High are a problem even for people with a single GTX 470.
I didn't claim such a drop SHOULD exist, just pointed out it does for some people and that it is an acknowledged problem.

What you "predicted" is quite frankly of zero relevance to me.
I've played the game on three other PCs with different hardware, one of which is my PC (Quad @ 3.2/core, 6 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz, GTX 560TI Sonic, second GPU should arrive next week), the other two with much older hardware, and the game ran smooth as butter.
I kind of have basis for comparison.

Did I say me having no problems invalidates YOU having problems?
No, I said that the problem isn't in the game, considering nobody with specs like yours has complained that the game runs bad with physX at Low.

However, there were people with ATis in Crossfire and they had awful framerates and stuttering, regardless of settings.Solution was to disable Crossfire.
Now in THIS case, the problem is definetely with the game.

[Zephon]

This game is running at 40fps with physx set on low, and if it is set to just medium; the pepper grinder can destroy frame rate. There is nothing wrong with my PC, the hardware is fine with every game; and the drivers are up to date.

The problem is Alice itself, which is just another example of a badly optimized console port, of which there are numerous examples this generation. This is typical of games now. That you personally don't encounter problems on a GPU that is quite frankly inferior to mine; is of zero relevance to me, when I've got my own system to judge performance. As I said, there is always people like you, always.

Quite frankly looking at this game, I should probably be getting 100fps+, because the graphics themselves are sub standard. The suggestion that throwing advanced physics in makes it ok to dip down into the 20s on a 470 is absurd. It's a console port with no visual enhancements, it shouldn't stress modern PC hardware in the slightest.

I quite frankly predicted that BS like this was going to happen back in 2007, during the physics technology wars. I said if Nvidia ever got control of advanced physics in games, it would be bloatware designed to sell SLI. Surprise surprise, that's exactly what has happened. A freaking none-enhanced console port needs dual top of the line graphics cards just to max smoothly with physx...

this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9c9RorjSc) comparison shows what physx adds, wich is far from being "none-enhanced" and for someone who complains about certain textures, the addage of features physx brings are major.

I dont really believe you predicted anything. physx doesnt require SLI. never has. If anything it makes people second guess selling off their older cards when purchasing newer ones simply so they can be used as dedicated physx cards. while selling older parts is a great way to cuts costs, being able to make use of older hardware is also a great way to cut costs.

on an i5-760 and a gtx470both stock this game runs like butter and ive only experienced noticable slowdown during a few heavy battles. I dont know the exact specs of your system but you should be running this game as well as everyone else seems to be.

do you have the physx set to run off your GPU or CPU? do you maybe need a clean installation of drivers? are you running 32 or 64bit OS? hell what OS are you running? what are your CPU specs? you came in here with maximun ♥♥♥♥♥ engaged and didnt give anyone anything to work with besides negativity.

[MustardJeep]

Did a user post search and annoyeddragon mentioned in a previous post that he's running a 8 series card so as much pride as he's taking in his rig he's one generation up from bare bones minimum. I quit paying attention to his gripes about frame rate at that point. A hundred dollar upgrade for a new video card would do the trick more then anything else.

[AnnoyedDragon]

Did I say me having no problems invalidates YOU having problems?
No

Actually yes, you did.

"The game runs flawlessly without any tweaks on a GT 525M with physX at Medium with no engine tweaks.

Your argument is invalid AND the problem is in your system."

Did a user post search and annoyeddragon mentioned in a previous post that he's running a 8 series card so as much pride as he's taking in his rig he's one generation up from bare bones minimum. I quit paying attention to his gripes about frame rate at that point. A hundred dollar upgrade for a new video card would do the trick more then anything else.

Rather than performing searches for old posts on my system specification, how about reading what I said in the thread?

"I have a Athlon II quad core processor, 3GB ram and a GF GTX 460."

All the additional physX eyecandy is "no visual enhancements"?
Wow.Okay if you say so.

this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9c9RorjSc) comparison shows what physx adds, wich is far from being "none-enhanced" and for someone who complains about certain textures, the addage of features physx brings are major.


Let me make this clear.

The textures are the same, the polygons are the same, the shaders are the same, the post processing is exactly the same! With PhysX turned off, Alice is a 100% carbon copy of the console version. Right down to a 16:9 aspect ratio and crappy fake AA.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing about this games graphics has been enhanced for PC in the slightest. The fact that you are both referring to PhysX as adding to the visuals, shows what a total and utter failure it is. It's supposed to be a GPU accelerated physics engine, but it has only been used to slap on effects that contribute absolutely nothing to the game play. One of the very things Nvidia's GPU solution was criticised for in the first place. I'd absolutely trade all these PhysX effects if it meant bumping up the games actual visuals.

So what I'm being told, is that it's perfectly acceptable for a none-enhanced console port to lag on recent hardware, provided that they slap on some bloated effect physics on. Talk about being an apologist. Maybe three years from now when direct cut and paste console ports are still lagging on the latest and greatest PC hardware, despite next gen being only months away, you will realize that just maybe; the ports are of crap quality.

I dont really believe you predicted anything.

Because you'd know? I was advocating hardware physics acceleration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7hIuytdRKw) before most people even heard of it, Nvidia's GPU solution was called Havok FX and PhysX was owned by Ageia with a dedicated hardware solution called the PPU. Nvidia's solution was highly flawed in that it couldn't improve game play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKXPhFUKFw), it was just pretty visuals, because of inherent hardware limitations in the GPU. Ageia's PPU on the other hand could improve game play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNYLkwxF2EM), with every object offering collision detection.

But then Nvidia bought Aegia and killed off the PPU, creating the Nvidia FX we have today. Fast forward to 2011 and surprise surprise, Nvidia still cannot produce game play affecting physics, it's nothing more than physics eye candy.

I don't see how you can argue that SLI high end GPUs are not required, when even some of the best and most expensive GPUs out there are falling into the 20s because of Nvidia PhysX. I tried SLI 8800GTs with Batman AA back when it came out, and it was still a laggy mess. You need SLI high end GPUs to get anything like a smooth game play experience with Nvidia PhysX, and that's the point, to bloat system requirements to sell more expensive hardware. To make it so even a none graphically enhanced console port can kill a modern system.

We said this was going to happen if Nvidia won the GPU physics wars back then, which was Agiea Vs Nvidia Vs Intel. Well Nvidia bought out Ageia, and that's exactly what they have done.

[AeddGynvael]

Actually yes, you did.

"The game runs flawlessly without any tweaks on a GT 525M with physX at Medium with no engine tweaks.

Your argument is invalid AND the problem is in your system."

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Your+argument+is+invalid

[AnnoyedDragon]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Your+argument+is+invalid

So after demonstrating you did in fact use your own personal experience as a counter argument to other people seeing bad performance, you just declare the whole argument invalid without going into any detail as to why?

Bugger off then.

[AeddGynvael]

So after demonstrating you did in fact use your own personal experience as a counter argument to other people seeing bad performance, you just declare the whole argument invalid without going into any detail as to why?

Bugger off then.

Oh my God, you're daft, mate, seriously.
I didn't use it as "a counter-argument", "your argument is invalid" is just a phrase to poke PLAYFUL FUN at someone with no ill bloody intentions.

Seriously, what's the matter with you?
At the very least, it should have been obvious by the fact that you MADE NO ARGUMENT in the post I "responded" to, just stated your OPINION, therefore me saying your presumed argument is invalid WOULD MAKE NO SENSE.
Relax, for goodness' sake.
How the Nora did you take a joke so seriously and get offended by it?

Did you really assume someone would think a ONE-SENTENCE RESPONSE is an actual "counter-argument", as you put it? Against ANY claim whatsoever?

[AnnoyedDragon]

Oh my God, you're daft, mate, seriously.
I didn't use it as "a counter-argument", "your argument is invalid" is just a phrase to poke PLAYFUL FUN at someone with no ill bloody intentions.

Seriously, what's the matter with you?
At the very least, it should have been obvious by the fact that you MADE NO ARGUMENT in the post I "responded" to, just stated your OPINION, therefore me saying your presumed argument is invalid WOULD MAKE NO SENSE.
Relax, for goodness' sake.
How the Nora did you take a joke so seriously and get offended by it?

Did you really assume someone would think a ONE-SENTENCE RESPONSE is an actual "counter-argument", as you put it? Against ANY claim whatsoever?

I'm not playing around with you, your response was unacceptable. I don't appreciate someone essentially saying I'm lying about the games performance, or there is something wrong with my PC, because they claim their personal experience is different. Which I am quite frankly highly sceptical about, given GT 525M benchmark results say that GPU isn't powerful enough to max most games (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-525M.43889.0.html); never mind with Physx.

[MustardJeep]

My apologies, but you are fond of "wall 'o Text" posts Annoyed....:D

Just booted up fraps and am getting a solid 31 frames but I don't know how much I trust that number. To many other factors and so on when using capture ware. <shrug>

Honestly I don't know why you care so much about nothing, it's a moderately fun game and in the end that's all that matters to me personally. The only two things I offer as arguments are .....

1. Spicy Horse was D.O.A. the moment they delivered Alice, Mcgee offered up a very well thought post elsewhere about how they knew there were problems, made plans to support Alice past first week bugs after going D.O.A., and were not asked to by the publisher.

2. Everybody knew it was a console port, that's all the rage as consoles are easy money these days. Console game engines have limits since it's pointless to try going beyond the console's upper hardware limit. If you think it's trivial to port a game and redo the render pipe well okay then.

There are a few minor bugs here and there and yeah some have trouble, but Spicy left the door open for the player base to make their own tweaks. Forum goers have proven they can find a way to play and have fun. :cool:

I think the worst bug I've found across the whole game is a small "burr" in the coding for the combo attacks that drops the frame rate and favors the enemies. But that's pretty minor.

Best of luck in your future trolling.


P.S. Just because my Motherboard smoked my new specs.
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2
16Gb ram - Current 4Gb till I upgrade to 64bit later tonight
gtx560 2048MB

[AnnoyedDragon]

My apologies, but you are fond of "wall 'o Text" posts Annoyed....:D

Just booted up fraps and am getting a solid 31 frames but I don't know how much I trust that number. To many other factors and so on when using capture ware. <shrug>

Honestly I don't know why you care so much about nothing, it's a moderately fun game and in the end that's all that matters to me personally. The only two things I offer as arguments are .....

1. Spicy Horse was D.O.A. the moment they delivered Alice, Mcgee offered up a very well thought post elsewhere about how they knew there were problems, made plans to support Alice past first week bugs after going D.O.A., and were not asked to by the publisher.

2. Everybody knew it was a console port, that's all the rage as consoles are easy money these days. Console game engines have limits since it's pointless to try going beyond the console's upper hardware limit. If you think it's trivial to port a game and redo the render pipe well okay then.

There are a few minor bugs here and there and yeah some have trouble, but Spicy left the door open for the player base to make their own tweaks. Forum goers have proven they can find a way to play and have fun. :cool:

I think the worst bug I've found across the whole game is a small "burr" in the coding for the combo attacks that drops the frame rate and favors the enemies. But that's pretty minor.

Best of luck in your future trolling.


P.S. Just because my Motherboard smoked my new specs.
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2
16Gb ram - Current 4Gb till I upgrade to 64bit later tonight
gtx560 2048MB

Future trolling? I don't agree with you, so I'm a troll? Honestly...

The game came out in what? June? It's late October now, and from what I'm hearing; EA has yet to patch the game breaking umbrella bug some people are experiencing. That is unacceptable. Or because you personally have not experienced this, anyone who has is irrelevant?

You sound like an apologist for the company. You have hit the limits of 32bit memory, have a six core processor and a GTX560 with 2GB of video nmemory... and you deem the performance acceptable? Never mind the frame rate is artificially locked to a bizarre frame rate, you looked at 31fps on your hardware and decided that was acceptable? From a game that looks dated; even by consoles standards?

I don't believe for a moment that anyone would be pleased with that performance, with a game that looks like this, on hardware like yours. You've set out to argue in defence of the game no matter what, because the conditions you describe are unacceptable. Spicy Horse also played no role in "opening the door" for players to tweak, that is just an aspect of the engine that all games that use it share.

It is 2011, it is unacceptable for a port to be this poor quality, especially from a publisher like EA and a tried and tested cross platform engine. There are no excuses, standards were actually better a few years ago. Quality has been going down, not up. Developers are becoming lazier and cheaper with their PC ports of games in recent years and Alice Returns is just the most recent example. Mirrors Edge is a UE3 console port by EA, Mass Effect 2 is the same. Both had much better production quality compared to Alice.

[MustardJeep]

<laughter>Rotflmao

I said I didn't trust the FPS number frapps was giving me...... :lol:

As for the rest I don't discount others problems but I don't do the evangelicalism thing for them either.

ps yep I find the gameplay acceptable, my last purchase was id's rage with massive tear, stutter, pop in, low poly errors, and occasional geometry fubars that can only be solved by reloading. My hardware setup has more to do with improving render times on blender then performance of games.

happy Halloween boo!

[AnnoyedDragon]

<laughter>Rotflmao

I said I didn't trust the FPS number frapps was giving me...... :lol:

As for the rest I don't discount others problems but I don't do the evangelicalism thing for them either.

ps yep I find the gameplay acceptable, my last purchase was id's rage with massive tear, stutter, pop in, low poly errors, and occasional geometry fubars that can only be solved by reloading. My hardware setup has more to do with improving render times on blender then performance of games.

happy Halloween boo!

Rage is another example of the sub standard quality of games these days, a lot of people needed to get it patched on day 1 because of the terrible texture popping. This from a game that was in development for many years, they didn't even bother to give the PC version a graphics menu, they just gave it the same graphics scaler they used to maintain 60fps on consoles.

Just another cut and paste console port, and from ID of all companies.

[WereWalrus]

alice returns was awesome, whats the matter!
I played the game until the end liked it and will do it one more time in the future.

[AeddGynvael]

Posting in this thread because A. The thread itself is pointless and B. I don't want to make a new one.
So, has anyone tried Alice in 3D with 285.62?
Because it seems to me they fixed a lot of issues.PhysX effects now render correctly and the only problem I can find is that the reticle remains 2D.
Other than that, the game now looks even more amazing now that they (supposedly) improved its 3D compatibility.Fluids render correctly, so do particles from destroyed Bolterflies, Eyepots, Madcaps, et cetera.
Whole new experience.

[Harry Baggins]

I thought this game was awesome, looks great, plays butter smooth, fun as hell! Too bad they A&&h*le proofed it and you couldn't enjoy it. Waaaaaaa

[lazy6pyro]

AnnoyedDragon:

I do not agree with your reasoning that PhysX should have taken a larger role in massively affecting the gameplay experience. The main problem with that is only people with nVidia cards and enough CUDA cores to support the GPU-accelerated physics calculations would be able to affectively play the game. As long as a player meets the minimum requirements, they should get the same gameplay experience across the board (keyword here is gameplay), and I don't think it would be a wise business decision to make the minimum a GTX260 and leave ATI users SOL. In terms of physics, it's now crossing the point that goes beyond purely graphical eye-candy to affect how players interact in the virtual world. It would have to either be "full-blast" physics inwhich the game's puzzles force the use of massive rigid and softbody simulations in order to complete the task or remain remedial tweaks that have little if any bearing on the gameplay. Now it doesn't apply in Alice's case, but my previous statement is especially true in multiplayer games where someone runing the game on low should have equal opportunity in terms of specific gameplay uses.

My ultimate feeling is that until a uniform standard API is established for massive physics calculations utilizing GPGPU methods, both PhysX or even an Open-CL-based Havok for ATI will be stuck doing physical simulations on remedial and non-gameplay impacting effects. Unfortunately, I don't see either AMD or Nvidia (especially Nvidia whose CUDA API is cornerning just about every part of the design, vfx, and CG industry) budging on this, it would have to be Microsoft that makes a massive physics-simulation API extension to the DirectX/Direct3D suite.

The PPU itself was going to go no-where. Much like making an unusually high minimum barrier in graphic cards can turn potential players and customers off, so would an additional card they need to purchase. Even today the Agiea PPU is still $60 retail, while it was well over $100 at release in 2006. There was also no known notebook iteration or even slimine version of the card in the works before or after Nvidia bought it. Meaning that would leave all but your ultra-high-end pre-built towers and custom builds to play AAA games that would require a PhysX PPU. When you're trying to go toe-to-toe with the 360 and PS3 during their release phases in 05-06, ANOTHER $100+ barrier is the last thing you wanted. This differs greatly from the eventual saturation of GPUs simply because the GPU had other benefits that appealed toward the larger computing audience that eventually lead to even budget desktops and notebooks being able to flawlessly decode video as well as taken advantage of by the host OS. There's no such advantage with a PPU other than advanced physical calculations in engineering, animation, and high-end gaming applications; thus there would be very little saturation and a very, very slow adoption rate. The rapid adoption of multi-core CPUs killed off the PPU for good.

[Strummer101]

Sure, it have it's flaws<<

We gonna take the raft to Vicksburg, Jim?

[endlessmyst]

I'll just say that this game, though tedious at times, is much more entertaining then some of the AAA titles this year, in my opinion (yes one of those annoying things everyone disagrees with) is one of the better games this year. It actually has a story that makes sense once you pay attention going through a few chapters, has a combat system where a little bit of thought is needed, and seems a lot more messed up than the first game (which was pretty disturbing in it's own right).

Also, I'll take the large amount of platforming in this game over the platforming in the first; that was... bad...

[cdoublejj]

I'v really been digging in to the game, before i was all for the game but, now not so much it has control issues and glitches galore also lag city.

I just got a nasty glitch where she tries to hump those valve in the mad hatter domain when pressing "C", may have to redo this entire level.

EDIT: also Alice gets stuck walking forward after loading new levels.

I actually find this stuff unacceptable, I wonder if it would possible to form a class action suite a for bug fix.

[butterfly2801]

I guess this is a game which you either like or not. I love it and I look forward to play it again :)

[Lt. Comm. Data]

First off, loved the first game and I really like this one too.

Second, UMBRELLA BUG? Are YOU TARGETING AN ENEMY WITH CAPS LOCK (for PC players)? If you don't TARGET you CAN'T UMBRELLA BLOCK.

Third, finish the game before judging the story. I have to admit I was very confused as to what exactly was going on up until near the end of the game. The story in Alice: MR basically keeps everything hidden until near the end of the game as to what exactly is happening to Alice and to Wonderland.

Fourth, in my experience through the game I didn't encounter any bugs, and the game only crashed once to desktop.

As a fan of the first, some things that I miss are the variety of weapons (jackbomb, jacks, etc) but I did kind of like the upgrade mechanic. The first game really challenges you in a fun way, as the OP has said, by limiting your weapons and thinking about when to use what. However, I did like getting more and more powerful weapon upgrades. I mean, in the first game you didn't get a kick-♥♥♥ vorpal blade like you do in this one.

The combat mechanics are definitely different from the first game. It's a repeating combo sequence, where at least for two of the weapons the combo length is increased per upgrade. The other two weapons just have an increased DPS and/or rate of fire. Fighting against smaller, weaker groups of enemies is pretty trivial, but the best combat moments is when you have to juggle a large mixed group of weak and tough enemies.

As I said above, the story is quite unclear until you reach the end of the game, and IMO, I thought the payoff was quite weak. For people who played the first game, the story is not totally unrelated to the first. It still deals with her guilt over the house fire her family was killed in.

In short:

Pros:
Great art direction
Fun gameplay/combat system

Cons:
Unclear story until near the end.

[TheInterloper]

I'm with the OP. This game was a lackluster attempt at a platforming brawler, and unless you're a younger gamer who enjoys jumping from ledge to ledge only to find yet another time-based puzzle, you'll realize that you just wasted twenty five dollars on a crap story with glossy visuals.

The biggest flaw isn't in the tedious gameplay, though. The upgrade system was surprisingly refreshing, but coupled with the fact that every large encounter was ended abruptly by Spicy Horse's inability to craft a boss fight, what was the frocking point? For example (semi-spoiler): The Executioner, who chases you through Queensland and acts as the driving force behind the action, gets crushed beneath Alice's giant foot. I mean, really? Fail, Spicy Horse, fail.

And the levels, for how colorful they were, reach their peak midway through the game. The Caterpillar's mountain sanctum is the most interesting of the six, while none of them are what I'd call innovative.

This game should have been scrapped. When the developers are too lazy to reward you with a cutscene for your efforts, and instead give you the equivalent of shaking a pop-up book back and forth, it's time to just snap the CD in half and mail it back to the developers. XD