Why no savegames?

[Prototype]

Why the hell do we have to put up with crap save points instead of manual saving?

The days when such crapness was introduced when consoles had little storage is now long since gone, it now seems to be used just to make a game seem longer when you have to repeat poinless crap over and over again just to die at the same point.

This game is no different and now in chapter 2, I've come to a section where I have to pixel perfect jump about 8 times in a row, great if it wasnt for erratic mouse control and random 1/2 second pauses midjump!

Other times it seems to autosave every 20 seconds or after every other kill, yet here get to the next to final jump only to miss and hang half-way down a jellyfish, no way to jump back up only way is to die (for no obvious reason) on the floor 15ft below me.

Stop pulling this bull♥♥♥♥ and give us back saves when we want them.

[stoicfaux]

Why the hell do we have to put up with crap save points instead of manual saving?

Save point. Singular. There's one and only save point.

It's really annoying when you have a choice of two paths (one leads to the next save point and the other leads to a secret/challenge area.) If you choose the wrong path and advance the game, you can't go back and explore the other path.

In one particularly egregious example on the dollhouse level, you can hear the pig snout, but if you walk too far forward while looking for the pig snout, you trigger a cut-scene and advance to the next level.

[blackforce]

Save point. Singular. There's one and only save point.

It's really annoying when you have a choice of two paths (one leads to the next save point and the other leads to a secret/challenge area.) If you choose the wrong path and advance the game, you can't go back and explore the other path.

In one particularly egregious example on the dollhouse level, you can hear the pig snout, but if you walk too far forward while looking for the pig snout, you trigger a cut-scene and advance to the next level.

i agree with you 100% that is my only gripe i have with the game, guess i will just restart the game like i been doing, i am trying to see everything lol

[SJW]

Having to get to the next checkpoint, just so I can close the game is fast making this game unplayable for me!

[nesco1801]

I missed so many succulent snouts, because of this not knowing if the path leads to next level

Having to get to the next checkpoint, just so I can close the game is fast making this game unplayable for me!

I dont bother with that at all, just close it when I feel like

[MADDOGGE]

Quicksave is for pussys. Never used, not even in the 90's.Thank you for your grossly uninformed and therefore totally useless opinion since it is quite obvious you haven't a clue about how to properly use QS to suck every morsal of goodness out of a game. Unlike the moron casual gamers toy the checkpoint that shoves one though the game as fast as possible looking for the safety of the next checkpoint.

[luizfalves]

Well I come from a time when games didn't save progress at all, so I wouldn't complain about that. For me it's kinda part of the gaming experience feeling the danger when I'm far away from a checkpoint, and the subsequent relief when I find one. It makes me play more carefully and be more immerse.

I don't hate quicksaves, but I think they can detract a lot from the experience. "A dark unknown menacing corridor? Oh, that's OK. I'll just quicksave and run through it; if something happens I'll just reload and be fine."

And by the way, Alice was by no means that difficult to me so I would miss a quicksave feature. Had to backtrack some sections sometimes, but that was about it. Don't know how it would make it unplayable.

Although I must agree that I found annoying triggering some cutscenes that stopped me for being able to explore. I missed that snout at the end of Dollhouse too. Twice. (but at least they have a chapter select feature, and you can go back straight to there)

[rondar59]

Here is the way I feel about quick save. I like it. In fact I prefer unlimited saves so I can go back an play from anywhere in the game. It doesn't hurt game play because if you don't want quick save then OK, just don't use it. But, please don't decide for me how I want to play the game.
-------
Oops, my bad.:o I lost track of which forum I was in. Checkpoints are appropriate for platform games, although one might debate the number and placement on some games. My above comments were more directed toward games with open first person environments. Mea culpa.

[MADDOGGE]

Here is the way I feel about quick save. I like it. In fact I prefer unlimited saves so I can go back an play from anywhere in the game. It doesn't hurt game play because if you don't want quick save then OK, just don't use it. But, please don't decide for me how I want to play the game.I've been told that merely having the option to quicksave even though they don't use it, makes the game too easy for them.:confused::confused: Though no one I know of that likes manual and quick save has said a thing about removing autosaves for the casuals. The checkpointers want to control how we play, whereas those that want the option of QS as well as more than one save slot don't effect checkpoint play at all.

[SamuraiCaveman]

Christ, how many platformers with quicksave have you played in your life?

Yes, being able to save after every little jump does in fact make a game way too easy because nothing ever has consequences. Failed a jump? Nothing happened. Got hit by an enemy? Who cares, hit F9 and no live is lost. You might as well enter a god mode cheat because nothing will ever stop you or make you think about your next move.

Let two kids play Ghouls & Ghosts on a real SNES and on an emulator with savestates and see which one of them finishes it under one hour.

please don't decide for me how I want to play the game.

Hey, that's what developers do. It's their job. You don't say "why do I have to beat this boss to advance" or "why can't I choose all levels from the start". The devs intended for you to be penalized when you die, so deal with it and die less.

[AeddGynvael]

I also grew up with games that did not have save features at all, so the lack of quicksaves in any given game is never really a problem for me.
Therefore, I definetely agree that having quicksaves in this type of platforming game makes it way too easy, destroys any real challenge it might possess and detriments from one's enjoyment.

In fact, my complaint is quite the opposite - the checkpoint system shouldn't be this forgiving.
The checkpoints should be rarer, because it's pretty much the same as quicksaves if the game autosaves after every battle or after I climb every obstacle.

[MADDOGGE]

Yes, being able to save after every little jump does in fact make a game way too easy because nothing ever has consequences. Here we go again with another one of you people telling me how to play my game. I using QS in no way makes your game too easy. It's my playthough not yours. I play for fun not challenges. Stop projecting why you play and what you think makes a game fun or not fun on others. The option does not effect you one damn bit. Stop pretending that it does.


In fact, my complaint is quite the opposite - the checkpoint system shouldn't be this forgiving.
The checkpoints should be rarer, because it's pretty much the same as quicksaves if the game autosaves after every battle or after I climb every obstacle.Just because you enjoy grindingly replaying videos,scripted scenes and whole levels over and over, memorizing actions like some monkey till letter perfect doesn't mean the rest of us do. Options only effect those that take advantage of them. They never effect core gameplay.

[AeddGynvael]

Just because you enjoy grindingly replaying videos,scripted scenes and whole levels over and over, memorizing actions like some monkey till letter perfect doesn't mean the rest of us do. Options only effect those that take advantage of them. They never effect core gameplay.

Stop raging.
You are making yourself look like a child that can't take a different opinion.Ad hominem attacks don't make your point more valid - they make you look like an immature fool.
Nobody has said "Well, I don't like quicksaves, I don't care if you do, you aren't getting them, because I say so!"

In fact, just like the game supports both KB/M and gamepad controls, it'd be nice if it had optional quicksaves for those, like you and OP for example, who want to use them.

Expressing an opinion that's the opposite of yours does in no way imply anyone wishes to stop YOU from using quicksaves or that anyone is trying to "tell you how to play your game".Just because you want to accuse people of that, doesn't make it true.Try actually reading what's been said before insulting and putting words in people's mouths.
Grow up.

[enemyofportal]

I don't care of saving point especially quick save for this game. this game is so easy. even when you play the same area next time, it won't take a long to get the point where you were. my problem is key control because of it, I fell unnecessary death many times. especially, stupid jump from pillar to pillar. sometimes, it doesn't work well as I expect. you know. you can only jump three times on the air (big jump).

[Noodle4355]

You can sort-of perform save games. Just alt-tab out during the game and copy the contents of the "..\Checkpoint\" directory into another folder. That will save you at the last saved point in the game.

If you want to replay that game, exit out of the game and recopy the contents back. It's very crude but it does work.

I did this at first when I messing around with my files fixing my umbrella bug (you'd think after 10 years we'd get better QA) but I do it now because I like re-watch some of the cut scenes. Some were kind of neat.

[postm]

I like quicksaves as well. Or at least a manual save so I can quit playing whenever I want. Sometimes I have to go to work or wherever. Some games have checkpoints further away than others and if it's your first playthrough, who knows when the next one is.

Savegames for me is the freedom to quit whenever I want or have to. But yes, also before and after difficult or tedious/frustrating sections.

[w00lp69]

I also grew up with games that did not have save features at all, so the lack of quicksaves in any given game is never really a problem for me.
Therefore, I definetely agree that having quicksaves in this type of platforming game makes it way too easy, destroys any real challenge it might possess and detriments from one's enjoyment.

In fact, my complaint is quite the opposite - the checkpoint system shouldn't be this forgiving.
The checkpoints should be rarer, because it's pretty much the same as quicksaves if the game autosaves after every battle or after I climb every obstacle.

hehe yeah when you played games on old consoles there was no savegames at all and sometimes you just let the consoles switched on to play on later so you didnt lose all your progress - and when someone stumbled over your controllercable or switched power supplies/the console off hell broke lose :D

[woolerland]

guys if you're having problem with a single save, you can do the following;

firstly install dropbox, it's a back up programme. the best thing about is it saves previous files which have been overwritten.

we then reroute the save folder location to dropbox folder (using mklinks; only inbuilt in win 7 & vista)

and boom, every save you make, it'll be uploaded to a server which you can retrieve and reload to every single checkpoint you get to.

[fedaykin6]

Kids, thank the console developers!
"Thanks, console developers!"

.|..

[Nimbulan]

and boom, every save you make, it'll be uploaded to a server which you can retrieve and reload to every single checkpoint you get to.

Except for when you get to a really hard part and die a couple times, and the most recent checkpoint is right before a long tedious cutscene you can't skip... I haven't run into that in this game (yet) but that generally happens with checkpoint systems.

And of course other people have mentioned the parts where you have a choice of which direction to go, and if you go one way it advances you to another part of the level and into a checkpoint, so you can't go back to explore the other area. Your only option is to start the entire chapter over if you want to go back.

The other main problem, if you remember back in the day with Halo: You're rescuing Admiral Keyes from imprisonment. You get to a certain point and he dies, so it reloads the last checkpoint. Then it happens again, and you realize he's got so little HP that sneezing on him will kill him so your only option is to completely start the level over because it's impossible to keep him alive. I don't anticipate this happening in Alice, just a general problem with the checkpoint system.

The bottom line: Choice is always better. You can easily avoid all these problems with manual saves and persistent autosaves.

[woolerland]

Except for when you get to a really hard part and die a couple times, and the most recent checkpoint is right before a long tedious cutscene you can't skip... I haven't run into that in this game (yet) but that generally happens with checkpoint systems.

And of course other people have mentioned the parts where you have a choice of which direction to go, and if you go one way it advances you to another part of the level and into a checkpoint, so you can't go back to explore the other area. Your only option is to start the entire chapter over if you want to go back.

The other main problem, if you remember back in the day with Halo: You're rescuing Admiral Keyes from imprisonment. You get to a certain point and he dies, so it reloads the last checkpoint. Then it happens again, and you realize he's got so little HP that sneezing on him will kill him so your only option is to completely start the level over because it's impossible to keep him alive. I don't anticipate this happening in Alice, just a general problem with the checkpoint system.

The bottom line: Choice is always better. You can easily avoid all these problems with manual saves and persistent autosaves.

oh i've totally witness that before, in a few games infact :o

In other games with good level design, they make the rescueing part of the game a new chapter so you can restart it if the guy getting rescued is hurt too much or in Easier games, the checkpoint refills their health :@

the worst checkpoint system by far is ASC 2.5. i find the game so damn easy so aiming for 100% on missions, this makes it actually challenging and hard but once you fail, you have to restart the damn mission to get 100% but if you want 50% you can respawn at the checkpoint and continue. =ludicris!

[DuckStab]

Save scumming is absolutely terrible. Removes all challenge from any game. I'm glad it's dying out.

[jpthurston]

I thought this would be a fun game, and it was at first. I was really, really enjoying it until I got to an irritating set of puzzles where I had to click the exact right combination of keys and buttons to get across a series of platforms without dying. I finally did it after at least a dozen tries and was so stoked! But then I bombed the NEXT puzzle and the flippin "save point" was before the PREVIOUS one so I spent another 20 minutes trying to redo both. Finally did it (had to switch around my controls a bit to make it work), then got mobbed by monsters and died... and it stuck me back at the beginning of the level. Three times I went through that before I finally succeeded (ended up in Hysteria twice during the last fight on the final - successful - attempt).

I'm not a "hardcore" gamer. I play games like these on Easy mode because I like the fun little puzzles and I like the pretty graphics and I DON'T LIKE being stressed out over a game, it's supposed to be a relaxing fun thing I do with my time. If I wanted stress I'd play an FPS. The fact that I can't load a save from AFTER I spent half an hour trying to solve a tough puzzle is BS, in my opinion. At the very least they should add more frequent autosaves to Easy mode for uncoordinated people like me who mess up a lot but still want to experience the game from start to finish.

[Caiobrz]

So, a 15h play-through game had one checkpoint in the wrong place and it TOTALLY RUINED THE EXPERIENCE for you huh?

99% of the checkpoints are in very good strategic places, some aren't. It's annoying at best, specially if you get there with low life, but really ... it falls short of ruining the game, specially once you realize you can start at any place in the game from the chapter select AND that if you want to get 100% completeness you will have to do that to get all items.

Note: if you are having a hard time with some fight, please change your dress to something that will help, like flesh maiden.

* gladly on my 3rd play-through *

[Nimbulan]

One thing of note: If you reach a checkpoint with very low life (not sure what the limit is, but half a rose will do it) then when you respawn there it will give you more so you don't die immediately.

[jpthurston]

So, a 15h play-through game had one checkpoint in the wrong place and it TOTALLY RUINED THE EXPERIENCE for you huh?

99% of the checkpoints are in very good strategic places, some aren't. It's annoying at best, specially if you get there with low life, but really ... it falls short of ruining the game, specially once you realize you can start at any place in the game from the chapter select AND that if you want to get 100% completeness you will have to do that to get all items.

Note: if you are having a hard time with some fight, please change your dress to something that will help, like flesh maiden.

* gladly on my 3rd play-through *
It didn't totally ruin the experience for me, but it definitely made me have second thoughts about continuing. Why would I want to keep playing a game that I didn't enjoy? But I got past that part and felt fine about it so no biggie. The thing that's irritating me now that will probably result in me NOT completing the game is the fact that the hotkeys just don't work. I finally got to Chapter 2 but during the first combat of the chapter, I couldn't use the umbrella block no matter WHAT I did. And as far as I can tell it's impossible to beat one particular monster without the block (the big tarbaby thing... not sure what its real name is).

you can start at any place in the game from the chapter select This isn't exactly true... you can only go backwards, so if you get to a really irritatingly impossible point in the game you might as well just quit playing because you can't skip it.

Note: if you are having a hard time with some fight, please change your dress to something that will help, like flesh maiden. I don't even know what this means. Change my dress?? Is that an option? I looked through all the menus and couldn't find any way to change clothes. Believe me, I would have tried it if I could.

[Caiobrz]

Well, first off, the game in easy or normal settings is, let's say, TOO easy. Most players are fine with hard, and I personally see a lot of room to improve the difficulty on nightmare ... it was a sweat dream, not nightmare, had to switch to Red Queen dress to have some sense of hardship. In my first play-thru, I had only one moment which was annoying, and I ENJOYED it because it was the first time the game actually challenged me and made me stop looking around for the eye-candy looks and concentrate on the game aspect. That was welcome.

Yet there are so many ways to fix that, ranging from switching to the knightmare horse or a better dress, to be careful with the auto-focus tool (I usually play w/o auto-focus, and only use the umbrella when you HAVE to when it first appears)

Even if the game had "impossible" moments, a savegame would not "fix" the issue much, and I really judge people who want options to skip a part because it's hard. Want to skip parts because it's too hard? go watch a movie. Having small challenges is part of the concept of GAME (alas, this is NOT the case with this game, it was on the first game though)

As for the dresses. Come on, look around your menu screen a little. Get to the main menu (MAIN MENU) and you will notice a little button (not menu option) bottom right which says "equip", there you can change Alice dress to a variety of default dress, or if you took a few minutes to read this forums, to a variety of awesome dresses and weapon upgrades if you enable the PC DLC options.

So many dress options to make the game easier, only one to make it harder.

Cheers

[Bad_Motha]

You can sort-of perform save games. Just alt-tab out during the game and copy the contents of the "..\Checkpoint\" directory into another folder. That will save you at the last saved point in the game.

If you want to replay that game, exit out of the game and recopy the contents back. It's very crude but it does work.

I did this at first when I messing around with my files fixing my umbrella bug (you'd think after 10 years we'd get better QA) but I do it now because I like re-watch some of the cut scenes. Some were kind of neat.

Yes it is crude, but it works. That was the way around Op: Flashpoint's limited saves ;)

[Rick_7777]

I think the reason save-game functionality is not coded properly into games simply boils down to cheap publishers and lazy developers who wont put the extra salary and effort into the time it takes to code it all the way through. Its easier and cheaper to just select spots and make permanent saves there. Pretty bad reason not to include the feature.

Unfortunately the lack of a real Save Game feature removes control away from the player which is the exact opposite of what video game media is meant for. The more control a player has over the gaming experience the better it is, if not for the fact it is customized to the players taste.

I cant sit there and play for hours, or even 20 minutes straight through sometimes. I have to get up to do something, or come back an hour later. The last thing I need is to keep replaying the same parts over and over, or stay Alt-Tabbed out of a game occupying RAM 24/7 just so I can resume where i last left off. The notion is ridiculous, its a video game, its MEANT to lend control to the player to participate in the ride.

If the developers are so hell-bent on implementing Checkpoints (with no manual saves) then why dont they just FRAPS a full play-through themselves and upload it to Youtube? Mission accomplished.

With both Checkpoints and Manual saves together, I can enjoy the challenge of doing-dare using Checkponts, great. But I can also take it easy and just enjoy exploring the game while simultaneously managing my real-world time better without the rage-inducing Checkpoints setting me back each time i load up the game.

I'm the one who paid the developers $50 for a new title and *they* are going to tell me when I can and cant save a game?? You cant be serious.

Ghost n'Ghouls was designed for an arcade in the 80s which means coding a save game feature was the last thing they wanted at the time. Its going on 2012 now, and there's no reason to remove such an obvious feature from any game, in any genre. You can always scale back the save options in the Main Menu, so long as its there in the first place.

[Caiobrz]

Oh stop whining there are checkpoints almost every 10 minutes.

If you can't play 9 minutes more (because you don't want to loose your PRECIOUS 1 minute of play since the last checkpoint), than don't buy the game, fine, I don't care.

I lost MANY MORE HOURS of gameplay on games with savegame *only* options because I forgot to savegame or the game/computer crashed, that I EVER lost in games with built-in checkpoints like these, and don't get me started on auto-savegame ... auto-saving each fixed 10 minutes on random locations is worse than each 10 minutes on meaningful context-based locations by far.

Alice, Borderlands, and many others adopted checkpoints because they offer good alternatives to the hustle of worrying about SAVING your progress. Get used to it, it's the trend - the right trend.