Say No to PunkBuster!

[Mr.SwingKing]

I thought a Steamworks game like RO2 would use VAC and not crap software like PunkBuster. Im sure i'm not the only one, who had problems with this horrible programm. It simply loses in every way against VAC.
It doesn't recognize hackers/cheaters properly, doesn't kick them from the server, doesnt update automatically and the fact that it's a stand alone software is awful!
Stick to VAC and Server Admins will do the rest!

[acare84]

I don't like the Punkbuster as well, VAC is enough.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/06/20/red-orchestra-2-dedicated-servers-detailed-will-use-vac-and-punkbuster/#comments

[Garrett2112]

Yeah, I'm sure the THQ/Kaos folks were mega happy how the Homefront launch w/VAC went...:p

I appreciate Valve AND VAC - but would argue PB is way more effective - but also very glad Tripwire is choosing to use both ACs.

Remember that BFBC2 had hacks on day one after the release and on day one - Punkbuster was banning these losers also.

Plus, add to the mix that PBBans will also be involved in AC protection and RO2 will have some very good AC IMO.

[Yoshiro]

It uses PB and VAC, and server admins can choose which if not both that they want to use.

PB will also be made available in stages so admins can choose functionality from it to use.

[Yoshiro]

Here is what I posted in our forums:

As has been pointed out we take the cheating threat very seriously, and have seen several games tank in the past year not because they were bad games (some were very enjoyable), but because their multiplayer environment was destroyed within weeks by cheaters.

We have listened to our community and others about what they want from an anti cheat environment and with that in mind we designed our current plan.

*VAC will be available for all servers and turned on by default.

We know some have had (and some still do have) problems with Punk Buster and with that in mind we are working with Even Balance to address that situation. Our current plan has PB implemented in three stages.

*Stage 0: Off
*Stage 1: Access to the server screenshot functionality and streaming bans
*Stage 2: Standard PB protection that WILL NOT interfere with Steam (and the overlay)
*Stage 3: Full PB that WILL (most likely) kick for the steam overlay

Server admins can work with these to decide what anti cheat environment works best for their server. And players will be able to filter for those settings as well to find servers that fit their preferences.

But remember, the greatest tool against cheaters is an active community both reporting cheaters (to Steam with the built in report function, and PB Bans) as well as forwarding any cheats they can get their hands on to any of the parties involved (ourselves which is preferable as we can get it to all the others quickly, EvenBalance and the VAC Team).

[The Algerian]

Just trust the devs.
They won't allow their game to be screwed up.

Other devs would, and did. Not TP, I don't think so.

[Lennox]

Giving multiple anti-cheat options to server admins like this is a fantastic idea. Personally, I love VAC (invisible, never bothers me) and hate punkbuster, but I've met others that feel the opposite way.

The more options you give to the players/server admins, the better. This is a fantastic move.

Multiple options for anti-cheat might be unprecedented... I can't think of any other multiplayer FPS that did this, anyway.

[Arkadius_radar]

bad company 2 is the exception to PB... otherwise i'd agree. The idea that ehyll use both however, is nice.

[oPatJRo]

Not Punkbuster!! I hate that dude, give me this stupid direct 3D problem that cannot be fix unless you degrade your comp driver to version 5 years ago.

[divine_skills]

Haha lol, VAC sucks ♥♥♥. Atleast PB protects the player from the cheating scum while VAC let's them cheat for days, even weeks before banning them.

[ATLbandit]

Everyone benefits by having the option to choose which Anti-Cheat you wish to use.

[kikinchaz]

Please no PB. Can't stand it, the thing sits running in the background on your computer whether you have the game running or not - I despise software which does that. As a result I've uninstalled it fully off my system and try to avoid games that use it.

[ATLbandit]

Please no PB. Can't stand it, the thing sits running in the background on your computer whether you have the game running or not - I despise software which does that. As a result I've uninstalled it fully off my system and try to avoid games that use it.

Blame cheaters, not developers that have to find ways to keep cheaters from ruining their games. Did you see what happened upon HOMEFRONT's release?

[alexbryant]

Did you see what happened upon HOMEFRONT's release?

Nope, what happened ?

[Feelgood]

Can we just say no to idiots that are clueless instead?

[bloodypalace]

But punkbuster doesn't even play nice with steam and steam overlay. Have you guys forgot all the new versions of punkbuster kick you because of steam overlay?

[DarkLiberator]

But punkbuster doesn't even play nice with steam and steam overlay. Have you guys forgot all the new versions of punkbuster kick you because of steam overlay?

Really? Doesn't kick me for BC2 with steam overlay on.

[Hi2u! Tw1TcH]

Really? Doesn't kick me for BC2 with steam overlay on.

Its a known issue with many games that use PB and is somewhat dependent on versions/updates.

I'm guessing most admins are going to opt out of using PB if possible and stick with VAC and their own admining.

[Stevecouch]

Its a known issue with many games that use PB and is somewhat dependent on versions/updates.

I'm guessing most admins are going to opt out of using PB if possible and stick with VAC and their own admining.

I have never personally had an issue with the overlay.

I would not go to a server that was not admin run, and there are advantages to both anti cheat companies, and also a downside to both of them. I am just glad that the option will be there.

Good job Tripwire!!

[Inogine]

I actually have a problem with PB HATING my EVGA precision running on my LCD display on my keyboard. I'm sorry, but I DO like to monitor the temps on my card and CPU and such. Seeing as I'm currently still air cooled, it's handy.

[sgtlongbow]

i have had problems with pb and not 1 time from vac, so there you have it.

[bloodypalace]

I have never personally had an issue with the overlay.

I would not go to a server that was not admin run, and there are advantages to both anti cheat companies, and also a downside to both of them. I am just glad that the option will be there.

Good job Tripwire!!

PB kicks you for having steam overlay on a lot of games, i can name cod1, cod2, United Offensive, cod4:mw1, cod:waw, bf2 from the top of my head.

[SiberianPenguin]

can we at least have the option of not needing to install punkbuster? but consequently not getting into servers that have it running.

[Mike Nomad]

But punkbuster doesn't even play nice with steam and steam overlay. Have you guys forgot all the new versions of punkbuster kick you because of steam overlay?


I have have the Steam overlay running with PB for WAW with no trubs.

[jonnyohio]

I've had some minor issues getting PB to run and work. Was a little frustrated with it in BC2 at first until I figured out what I needed to do. Seems they could simplify PB a little more, but if that's what it takes to keep stupid cheaters from ruining the game so be it.

[Drimage]

Doesn't really bother me. In the long run, the most effective defense is having active admins on the server. That's all you really need.

[UberTrevor]

-.- Don't ♥♥♥♥ing like it? Buy your own damn server and turn it off. Or even make your own!

[Mr.Foster]

I don't have any problems with PB to play BFBC2 and for MW1 I just turn the steam overlay off and problem solved. PB is miles better than VAC. I think VAC works good only with steam titles because the rest like MW2, BLOPS, Homefront, etc, are cheater heavens for a reason.

[10-78Busterking]

Having PB along with PBBans live streaming is a great option. VAC is too slow in catching the cheaters imo.

Happy that Tripwire is on top of this.

[fedaykin6]

Nope, what happened ?
When Homefront was released, it was immediately overrun by cheaters. VAC did not kick in and the game is now effectively dead. VAC is thus proven to not work. It's good that both VAC and PB are included in RO2. I'd rather have a somewhat flawed anti-cheat like PB than no AC at all (=VAC). I will not even come near servers that have PB disabled.

[ATLbandit]

When Homefront was released, it was immediately overrun by cheaters. VAC did not kick in and the game is now effectively dead. VAC is thus proven to not work. It's good that both VAC and PB are included in RO2. I'd rather have a somewhat flawed anti-cheat like PB than no AC at all (=VAC). I will not even come near servers that have PB disabled.

There were rumors that they didn't pay up for the VAC at first so it in fact was present but not updated to catch any hacks (that you could simply find by Googling the group name the hackers used), but since I am not familiar with that situation or how it works I am not sure.

Can we just say no to idiots that are clueless instead?

If only, sir, if only...

[Wilsonam]

When Homefront was released, it was immediately overrun by cheaters. VAC did not kick in and the game is now effectively dead. VAC is thus proven to not work. It's good that both VAC and PB are included in RO2. I'd rather have a somewhat flawed anti-cheat like PB than no AC at all (=VAC). I will not even come near servers that have PB disabled.

There were rumors that they didn't pay up for the VAC at first so it in fact was present but not updated to catch any hacks (that you could simply find by Googling the group name the hackers used), but since I am not familiar with that situation or how it works I am not sure.

It wasn't that VAC didn't kick in - VAC can only detect what it is told to detect - you need the developers actively monitoring and alerting VAC to the hacks. Publishers don't pay for VAC - it is all part of the service from Valve.

And on the Steam overlay: we have one of the PB devs in the office coding away, specifically to ensure that all the elements play nicely with each other...

[WardenTex26]

Punkbuster rules! :D

[kikinchaz]

Blame cheaters, not developers that have to find ways to keep cheaters from ruining their games. Did you see what happened upon HOMEFRONT's release?

That logic is flawed. That's like saying blame pirates for the intrusive DRM we've seen in the past few years. Sure I can blame cheaters, i hate them, but I'm sure there's better ways to implement cheat detection. Specifically not needing a program that sits running in the background at all times whether you're on a game or not...

[ratzinger81]

I am highly disappointed by this decision. I am one of a growing number of Steam users who plays on Linux through WINE, and those who make Punkbuster have said they have no intention of ever making it work through WINE or any other kind of virtualization.

VAC on the other hand has never given me trouble, I have played RO1 for years on VAC servers with 100 percent playability. I urge Tripwire to reconsider.

[divine_skills]

I am highly disappointed by this decision. I am one of a growing number of Steam users who plays on Linux through WINE, and those who make Punkbuster have said they have no intention of ever making it work through WINE or any other kind of virtualization.

VAC on the other hand has never given me trouble, I have played RO1 for years on VAC servers with 100 percent playability. I urge Tripwire to reconsider.
I demand AmigaOS support :mad:

[ATLbandit]

It wasn't that VAC didn't kick in - VAC can only detect what it is told to detect - you need the developers actively monitoring and alerting VAC to the hacks. Publishers don't pay for VAC - it is all part of the service from Valve.

And on the Steam overlay: we have one of the PB devs in the office coding away, specifically to ensure that all the elements play nicely with each other...

That actually explains a lot, thank you for the clarification.

(meaning less on Valve, more on KAOS/DE)

[ratzinger81]

I demand AmigaOS support :mad:

Real funny, except that Linux usage continues to grow, and Steam has proven accommodating to us in the past.

[riley1234198]

I thought a Steamworks game like RO2 would use VAC and not crap software like PunkBuster. Im sure i'm not the only one, who had problems with this horrible programm. It simply loses in every way against VAC.
It doesn't recognize hackers/cheaters properly, doesn't kick them from the server, doesnt update automatically and the fact that it's a stand alone software is awful!
Stick to VAC and Server Admins will do the rest!

Punk buster is 10 times better then VAC also you can stream to PBBANS for real time bans. Also if you read the game is going to will be both VAC and Punkbuster anti-cheat.

http://www.pbbans.com/

[WardenTex26]

I am highly disappointed by this decision. I am one of a growing number of Steam users who plays on Linux through WINE, and those who make Punkbuster have said they have no intention of ever making it work through WINE or any other kind of virtualization.

VAC on the other hand has never given me trouble, I have played RO1 for years on VAC servers with 100 percent playability. I urge Tripwire to reconsider.

For the 25th time, PB will be "OPTIONAL". VAC will be enabled by default. Server admins can decide whether or not to use PB on their servers along side VAC.

[Slinden]

I've never had a problem with VAC on RO or TF2 or CS:S. PUNKBUSTER ON THE OTHER HAND RUINED FAR CRY 2's multiplayer for me as well as Call of Juarez.

To be fair, however, Ubisoft is a piece of ♥♥♥♥.

[pat_pat]

RO2 will be a game where Admins actually should do their work and kick cheater and teamkiller.

PB is just annoying

[Taikis]

Punkbuster is horrible. If I was developing a game I would never include such malware in my game, even if it was up to game hosts to decide if they want to maim their players. I have never seen a cheater get busted by Punkbuster (in fact luckily I have not seen any cheaters in games that use it, but neither have I seen many cheaters elsewhere), but I have along with all my friends and many many other people been violently busted countless times by Punkbuster for no reason that isn't caused by anything but Punkbuster's inadequacy. VAC alone is better than even having an option to use Punkbuster, because VAC does not attack innocent people. Not to mention it doesn't secretly run in the backround all the time consuming memory.

My personal grudge against Punkbuster is mostly caused by Punkbuster's tendency to torture me and it's attacks against humanity. Punkbuster has recently made it impossible for me to play a game completely (Forgotten Hope 2, a mod for Battlefield 2 which propably suffers the same problem). I have done everything that can be done except formatting my computer and Punkbuster keeps laughing.

Every time Punkbuster kicks me or my friends I can feel Punkbuster making a sinister laugh after which it says in a malevolent voice: "Another punk busted." or "Suck it down." after which it presses a button and a +1 appears on his screen and he looks at a counter which counts how many "punks" have been busted. Then he sends a letter containing bribe money to Tripwire so he can continue his evil quest.

Excuse me.

[bloodypalace]

Aye, i hate punkbuster. Getting randomly kicked by bunkbuster for no apparent reason every time you're playing a game is like the norm. You should be surprised if you're playing a game and it doesn't kick you.

[checkdestroy]

PunkBuster is still around? WTF???

I remember it being such a POS during the CS WON days that I thought BF2 was the last game that would ever use it. Welp, I was wrong. :(

[fobban]

I hope you can install the game without PB. I'm hoping for a good community, PB won't help with that.

PB screwed up BC2, so I hope most servers just use VAC.

[fedaykin6]

Then have fun playing on cheater-infested servers for months, because that's how long it takes for VAC to work.

[Friend-or-Pho]

I think people are missing the point, why argue about which AC software is better when both are optional server side? Servers can run VAC/PB/VAC+PB or no AC at all. Sure it might be unpleasent to skip playing on some of the servers that run the AC you dont like, but there will most likely be a few that run your preference.

[fobban]

Of the approx 400 hours I have in L4D2 I've met 1 obvious cheater. So maybe the cheaters are very good, or VAC does its job quite well.

Anyway, I think this is the first game I've heard of that can utilize several AC techniques, which actually is quite interesting. I wonder how TW came up with that idea.

[Abol65]

In L4D there are not so many cheaters because it is not cool to be good in this game. In other more competive games like CS there are more cheater.

To the topic: VAC works not very well and PB neither works. But Punkbuster often has bugs and does not work well so I am for VAC. It will be most likely so that we have to play on good server where nearly everytime an admin is online. Then cheater have no chance it is the same like in other games good server are important.

[Taikis]

In L4D there are not so many cheaters because it is not cool to be good in this game.

0 cheaters is quite cool.

[Forlorn Hope]

Why is Punkbuster bad>? It looks effective.

[Socialist Ninja]

I rather have few cheaters an admin can kick or ban from a server than a whole another program that overreactive to something like steam overlay.So far the only game that punkbuster hasn't reaptedvly kicked me has been bfbc2.All the other games I own that have punkbuster kick me after a couple minutes.The few severs that i can play on with out punkbuster have horrible ping and are full of cheaters.If you have punkbuster 98% of servers will run some kind of it or another.

The best way to deal with cheaters are good admins from a good community not software that kicks for using the steam overlay.

[SiberianPenguin]

Why is Punkbuster bad>? It looks effective.

where to start..

for a lot of users, it just creates more problems than it fixes. From the 90's to CoD 4 (last punkbuster game i own), I've had a boat load of problems with it. from needing to go to gamespy to grab all the patches, installing problems, getting kicked from servers because of losing packets, even needing to enter in the game's CD key constantly for god knows why. and the steam overlay as people are mentioning here.