Upcoming Update: Challenge Missions

[Murudai]

While I'm stuck trying to work out how to make the sandbox better I figured I'd make some more missions.

So what will this be? Challenge missions will be a separate item in the menu and will contain a big bunch of scenarios to tackle independent of the main story mission:

- These missions will not be found through the mission circles and are activated directly from the menu.
- You won't be able to use your own system, you will be given a custom system just for the mission. This allows me to properly tweak and balance the difficulty (as opposed to the ingame missions that can be really easy or really hard depending on the system you tackle it with).
-Whether you pass or fail the mission you'll respawn back to the system you had when you started the mission. I'm afraid you don't get to keep it!
- They will be divided into requirements categories (ie; must have played as a star first, must of beaten the game, must of beaten the game without using god options).
- You won't be able to use God or Physics Options at all during any of the missions.
- Beating these missions will yield Achievements, but you won't unlock any more of the games content. That's what the story missions are for.
- These will be, for the most part, very hard missions. These are the missions are I couldn't put in the story because everyone would just quit in frustration.
- Some may have scores and times to beat, although no leaderboards are planned as I wouldn't want to put anything up before making the game as cheater proof as possible.
- Future content updates with more missions are certainly possible if I get more ideas for missions!


Don't hold your breath for this one! It takes a while to test and create missions, but I expect this update will be ready to go in early-August. If it isn't ready by then though it'll be much longer as I'm heading over to PAX and the US for a bit and I can't develop while I'm there!

So yeah, if you have any feedback on this idea please post. Ideas for missions are also welcome!

[Excellius]

First things first: :D :D :D

One suggestion i would have is adding the option to select various difficulty settings that affect the mission or the initial system. (Think concert mission where easy gives you a large star with two planets, medium gives you a large star with full mass and hard gives you a small star which wouldn't last two hits).

As for missions ideas.... I would have to think for a bit about that.

[Kerrigan666]

I don't know how I feel about this. The game isn't so much about missions as building and growing a star system(at least how I see it). I had already made a suggestions thread a while ago. Any one of those stuff would be great. Especially upgrading/enhancing space battles.

Don't get me wrong; adding more content to the game is always great, but I feel it should be a second priority.

[your evil twin]

I'm the other way around, I enjoyed the missions and I welcome the game having more missions.

[Murudai]

The problem is I can't really change the sandbox. It forms the basis of the entire game and it's already pushed to the limits of what I can do with the current controls. To change it I'd need to introduce new controls and RADICALLY change how the entire game is played, which is too much for an already released game. Those things can only really happen in a sequel.

So the best I can do is just add more non-sandbox content to Solar 2, such as missions.

[Kerrigan666]

I know people may start to flame, but I have already stated my opinion that any extra content released should be in the form of a DLC with maybe 2-5 Euro price tag depending on the content.
This is good IMO because nobody likes to work for free. Getting more money should be motive enough for changes that need a lot of work.

Adding missions will get a percentage of buyers that already own the game but adding to the sandbox will get them all. Strictly personally speaking, I am not in the mood for more missions especially if they are harder than the ones I already beat. Releasing harder missions as you say will only please the very hardcore audience. The rest should be more than satisfied with the current mission difficulty.

[Excellius]

I know people may start to flame, but I have already stated my opinion that any extra content released should be in the form of a DLC with maybe 2-5 Euro price tag depending on the content.
This is good IMO because nobody likes to work for free. Getting more money should be motive enough for changes that need a lot of work.
I think there are simply two different "Business models" if i may call them such. Take for example Magicka and Terraria - two Indie(ish) games. Magicka releases a load of DLC conent that costs a few pennies, while Terraria had some really impressive free updates.

Terraria seems to be doing really great, even though content updates are free - i haven't seen it drop out of the top 10 most sold for weeks (And that INCLUDES the summer camp!). Besides the fact that it is simply a very good game i presume that the updates keep people interested in it - which i presume leads to word of mouth advertising and more sales. Magicka is nowhere to be found in the top 10, but their extra revenue from DLC might offset that. In other words there are simply two different idea's behind their content updates i'd say.

As for working for free: Take Wikipedia as an example. There are almost 3.7 million article's now written by - as far as i am aware - unpaid volunteers who do it for fun. ;)

Adding missions will get a percentage of buyers that already own the game but adding to the sandbox will get them all. Strictly personally speaking, I am not in the mood for more missions especially if they are harder than the ones I already beat. Releasing harder missions as you say will only please the very hardcore audience. The rest should be more than satisfied with the current mission difficulty.

Keep in mind that there is one issue here - the sandbox is the core of the game and changes to the sandbox might in turn change the core gameplay. Just think about the new god option that allows extra ships - changing it radically changes the game since larger systems can suddenly grind systems even 1-2 planets weaker into pulp with pure firepower, while you equally have to be a lot more defensive since you can have 20 enemy missile ships eying your favorite planet all of a sudden.

That example is just tweaking something that is already in. If there are more radical changes this may really affect quite a few things down the line - which may be a bad thing. As for me, i welcome a few new missions with open arms. I really liked the challenge the original ones provided, and i would actually enjoy another set to break my teeth on for a while. Seeing the idea is to have a preset system for the new missions it may be possible to simply integrate difficulty levels, so that everyone can have their own amount of challenge. But i leave that to Murudai's wisdom to decide. ;)

[Kerrigan666]

You can't really support that 100% Sure, it may be a factor but other things play their part. Magicka is double the price of Terrria. Also, the biggest factor is how good of a game it was to begin with. I wasn't aware of the free updates but if I chose 1 game, I would choose terraria. So, most of the devs give out free stuff every now and then but also charge the big updates/DLC.

As far as wikipedia or any other such endeavor, they all rely on either human kindness or vanity, none of these have a a place in business. Even Blizzard has decided to let modders charge for their work if they choose so, in order to get more and better content.

I will agree on one thing though. Changing the sandbox radically may ruin the game instead of improving it. Perhaps I am too driven by my personal preferences. For example, my favorite activity in the game is to turn off gravity, max out turrets and ships, and go for intergalactic war... Not in any way relevant to what the game is intended for.

[woko]

Magicka releases a load of DLC content that costs a few pennies, while Terraria had some really impressive free updates.

Terraria was an unfinished game at the time of the release.;)

Terraria seems to be doing really great, even though content updates are free - i haven't seen it drop out of the top 10 most sold for weeks (And that INCLUDES the summer camp!).

That's not true. It has been n°1 for a week or so when it was released. And then it has been in the top 10 during the sale. :p

However, there are beetween 10k and 20k players anytime during the day, that's impressive. :cool:


Magicka is double the price of Terrria.

Both are currently sold at the same price. During the summer sale, Magicka was even sold at 3,39€ while Terraria was sold at 5€ (the 2,50€ was a mistake).

Also, the biggest factor is how good of a game it was to begin with.

Actually, Magicka was full of bugs at the beginning, which was not the case with Terraria.

[Goteki-45]

I thought the upcoming update was a difficulty balancing one, or did that already happen/was that scrapped/other?

Also, will these new missions be needed in order to get to the final boss?

[Excellius]

I thought the upcoming update was a difficulty balancing one, or did that already happen/was that scrapped/other?
That one has already been out for a while - before the summer camp event, if i remember well. The patch made some missions easier, and allows you to gradually unlock god options while doing missions (Before you needed to complete the entire game before they became available)

Also, will these new missions be needed in order to get to the final boss?
Well, i am not 100% sure, but i doubt it.

You cannot use your own system, as you are assigned a system. Would take the flow out of the game. Besides, you start them from the menu, not from the in-game circles.
Murudai stated that the missions were originally not in because they were so hard people might quit in frustration.
One of the criteria seems to be "Must have beaten the game", which, i assume, means that you must have beaten the final bos before it becomes available.
If i add those up my conclusion would be that they are extra missions.

[Murudai]

Yeah, these are extra missions. You won't need them to unlock physics options or final boss or god options.

[Strich]

Sorry but extra missions has nothing to do with improving sandbox, or do you mean WoW is a sandbox, because they added tons of new PVE stuff?

[Murudai]

Another point to add. Many of these missions will use set variations of the God and Physics options to make some really interesting and dynamic scenarios.

[Hack Scudder]

More content is always great, especially when most of us got the game for so little money.. but I have to echo the sentiment that the missions are by far the least appealing thing about this game.

For the most part, they involve repeating the same thing over and over and over again until you get lucky enough to make it work.

When they don't involve pure luck, it's just a matter of having a good enough star system saved.

The missions are nothing but a bullet point. Nobody who plays through it is going to be wishing for more missions. Everyone who plays this game is going to want a deeper sandbox.

I've been playing this game a lot today, and I thought of a few seemingly simple ways that the sandbox experience could be more enjoyable.

1) The interface.
I wish that there were more interface options. I really enjoy being able to turn it off, but I wish that the
interface toggle weren't also the mission toggle. I have found myself running into them accidentally, and
the directional arrows are quite distracting.

2) Asteroids.
There should be a way to destroy asteroids orbiting a life planet without having to absorb them. I found myself
accumulating stars that I didn't want just because it was easier to hit Ctrl to get rid of them before hitting K to
absorb the smallest "body". An easy solution seems to me to add a toggle for allowing your ships to shoot
all asteroids on sight, including the orbiting ones. Might need a bit of balancing.

3) Forcing orbit.
It works for the most part, but there are often times when I just can't get the damned thing to connect, no
matter what I do. It seems like some planets/asteroids are simply programmed to slam into me. I'm sure that
isn't the case, and often enough I know it's my fault, but when I can wrestle with a planet for 30 seconds or
more, dodging its every zig and zag, and I have room enough for 3 more planets, It just feels to me like
something is wrong.

Anyway. I think it's a fun game with a lot of great potential, but I wanted to reiterate that the sandbox is where it's at. Nobody bought this game to spend 3 full minutes dodging 50 missiles with a rock.

That's just a fact.

[Murudai]

As I've already written above:

The problem is I can't really change the sandbox. It forms the basis of the entire game and it's already pushed to the limits of what I can do with the current controls. To change it I'd need to introduce new controls and RADICALLY change how the entire game is played, which is too much for an already released game. Those things can only really happen in a sequel.

So the best I can do is just add more non-sandbox content to Solar 2, such as missions.

Rather than adding some half-assed tweaks into an already released game, I'd rather put these ideas aside for Solar 3 so I can develop it from the ground up with a much deeper sandbox in mind.


The missions have very little to do with luck at all. The only real luck element is what happens to be nearby during the missions, and even then that's easy to work around. Sounds like you just need more practice! The Challenge Missions will be far better as I can carefully control the starting system and the surroundings to make a more balanced (and thus less frustrating and more rewarding) experience.

[TBird]

I think it's great that you are still developing free content.
However, I would like to point out that at least to me the sandbox aspect of Solar 2 is far superior and much more innovative than the missions (and I have finished all of them). If I want to play a space-race- game Solar 2 would really not be very high on my list.

So in a nutshell: I personally would rather pay 10-20$ to be able to play Solar 3 with a vastly improved sandbox mode than free additional challenge missions. But I guess you could look at the stats and see what people actually play most in the game and go from there.

[Hack Scudder]

As I've already written above:



Rather than adding some half-assed tweaks into an already released game, I'd rather put these ideas aside for Solar 3 so I can develop it from the ground up with a much deeper sandbox in mind.


The missions have very little to do with luck at all. The only real luck element is what happens to be nearby during the missions, and even then that's easy to work around. Sounds like you just need more practice! The Challenge Missions will be far better as I can carefully control the starting system and the surroundings to make a more balanced (and thus less frustrating and more rewarding) experience.

I hope I didn't sound harsh in my post. I've been having a lot of fun with the game. I've put in 8 hours just building systems and playing with the physics. Since I didn't say it before, thanks for making it.

[Murudai]

A few extra missions is an easy update and won't take long to do, and I'm sure plenty of people will enjoy them.

Designing and balancing a complex sandbox simulation on the other hand is very tough and will take the better part of a year to get going. Doesn't matter how much you want it, doesn't make it any less work to do :)

[JackDownAHill]

YAY!!! :D I loved the story missions, but was sad that some of them were nerfed :(
Cant wait to see some of your harder stuff :D

[Murudai]

Heh, one of the problems of being a one-man dev team, it's easy to get bogged down with all the little side things that need to be dealt with in this job and that can slow down dev.

The challenges update is coming along nicely, however I won't be releasing it until after I come back from my PAX trip because while I'm over in the US I can't do any patches to fix any bugs that the update might cause. On the plus side that's plenty of time to come up with some more awesome ideas, there will be at least 20 challenge in there.