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Innociv
07-23-2011, 07:08 AM
There are so many of these games. How do they get on steam?

Notably, how did AVA get on steam?

I tried that game out and it feels and plays like an internal alpha version of a mod. It's not even the quality of an alpha of a "real" game.

It doesn't have any Steam integration, does it? It was a hastle to get started with it, with that ijji.com site in broken English.

War Inc. is nearly as bad. Feels like an alpha, but it's asking for money. At least it wasn't as difficult to make an account and such.


To the inverse: Spiral Knights was VERY easy to get started with. It used my Steam account for most of the information and I could get right to it. I could find my Steam friends in it easily. Though, I'm not crazy about the game, at least it works with Steam and isn't a bug riddled unpolished mess, it simply isn't my kind of game.

War Inc and AVA(Primarily the later) make it seem like there are no standards, and Steam will soon have hundreds of cruddy F2P games listed in its store. What's the point?

SmilerAl
07-23-2011, 07:31 AM
AVA isn't that bad, feels like CS:S for the most part.

Innociv
07-23-2011, 07:42 AM
Yeah, I remember when I equipped my rocket launcher in CS:S, it had a grenade icon in the bottom left and made explosion effects from quake2 with animations inspired from the same.


Not even close.

Jack Pipsam
07-23-2011, 08:28 AM
I don't care one way or another about steam intergration.

all I care about it is if it is fun or not.

Motanum
07-23-2011, 08:35 AM
I feel the same. F2P bar should be raised. Otherwise I won't waste my time.

I feel Battlefield F2P comes second and on top comes TF2 as the best f2p games I've ever tried. Note that there is a big gap between the two of them.

z3hr
07-23-2011, 08:49 AM
AVA isn't that bad, feels like CS:S for the most part.


Is there a way to take away rep?

Zamav
07-23-2011, 08:52 AM
Probably not as long as they are pay to compete or generally well known :p

smallhero1
07-23-2011, 08:58 AM
I like how OP is whining about free games.

skinlo
07-23-2011, 09:09 AM
Its free...

Innociv
07-23-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't care one way or another about steam intergration.

all I care about it is if it is fun or not.

That's part of what I meant by standards.

It was both the quality, and integration.

AVA has poor integration and poor quality.


I like how OP is whining about free games.
I'm not complaining about Spiral Knights, Global Agenda, some of those others, nor TF2 or Alien Swarm.

I'm comaplaining (rightfully I think) about Steam getting filled with the hundreds of crappy "free" to play games.

See my cleaver quoting of "free"? That's because they do have a business model. Things in War Inc. are REALLY expensive, despite it being far worse than the old Ghost Recon, having very buggy graphics, and running very poorly.

You can find these games elsewhere on the net already.
My question is whether or not Steam is going to have standards on which games they include.


You know what else is free? Punches to the face, blood in your urine, and cancer.

There are "free" to play games that are rather good quality. There needs to be standards for the ones that are allowed on Steam, or else are we going to have a list of hundreds and it thus be hard for Steam users to see the good ones?
Further, most of these games don't have a metacritic score.

I think I have a good reason to complain, if you'd read my first post. I wasn't complaining that these "free" games are bad, I was complaining that they're on Steam.

MADDOGGE
07-23-2011, 09:12 AM
There are always those that get their nose bent out of shape over free stuff. When something is free, you say thank you. If it's fun, you play, if not, you move on. Not a big deal.:confused:

Innociv
07-23-2011, 09:33 AM
You're really not getting it.

There are HUNDREDS of free games out there.
Each of these Korean to America publishers has a dozen or more games in most cases, and there are so many dozens of them.
I'm not complaining that a "free" game is bad. I'm asking "Where is this going?" or "How does this work?". Steam obviously can't list every free game out there.. right? They're a publisher, who shouldn't be publishing bad games as it gives a negative image to them.

Are all these games going to be on the Steam "Free to Play" list?
With no metascore?
With no quality standards?
With us having to register an account with them instead of using our Steam one?

I thought, because these games are a small few on Steam, that they'd be okay. I thought some quality control person at Steam might have checked them all out.


It's also a bit of a big deal when they spam your email after you make an account with them. It's not like there is no risk associated with trying them out.

For Steam to have these F2P games, they should be Spiral_Knights/TF2/BF:H/Global_Agenda quality or better.


I know Steam denies publishing some games that are a lot better than AVA, which is even more confusing.

Aitkenj
07-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Its free...

Im giving out kickings at 6pm... dont moan about it, its free.

FreemanForPrez
07-23-2011, 10:02 AM
Are there going to be standards for the Free to Play games?


Are there ever any standards for anything that's free?

There's good free stuff and there's bad free stuff; most of it is bad or at best, incomplete.
It's designed to get you to buy the real stuff, just a teaser, an extended demo, a marketing gimmick.

Like MADDOGGE pointed out, you either like it or you don't, but don't lose sight of what it actually is.

EDIT:
BTW, those middle two sentences are just in general, not referring to games specifically.

Innociv
07-23-2011, 10:05 AM
The fact that there are good and bad free games kind of voids your post, eh?

Anyway, you're missing that Valve controls(or should control) what games they publish.

Menphues
07-23-2011, 10:05 AM
The War Inc is pretty good.

Do not like AvA anymore, really laggy and kinda stupid at the shooting.

Hoping for some good racing games, not NFS World or drift city.

We need something good out there.

Innociv
07-23-2011, 10:32 AM
There is a good F2P racing game in development. I forget the name, though.


War Inc, indeed, isn't as bad as AVA.
It feels like it might go somewhere, months down the line. (AVA on the other hand has been around quite a while and is just what it is.) So, it's still bad.

But it feels like it's a beta, at best. It's no where near the quality of ghost recon(the original, from TEN years ago), with an expensive cash shop added on. It seems like it's on Steam as a cash grab, trying to get people to buy the expensive packs so it might eventually become a better game. But there's other games that are also in a beta state on Steam that are of a so much better quality.

There are so many clear issues with War Inc. Like there are all these things popping in and out, flickering, and so many basic gameplay things aren't there. It shouldn't be on Steam, I don't think, at least not until they improve it.

AVA is much more clear, black and white, in how bad it is, though.

AVA is a shining example of your typical bad F2P game. War Inc isn't quite as bad(and at least looks like it's being improved), but it's nearly there.

Lone-Wolf
07-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Meh, I enjoyed it, was a good kick with my clanmates.

FreemanForPrez
07-23-2011, 10:46 AM
The fact that there are good and bad free games kind of voids your post, eh?

Anyway, you're missing that Valve controls(or should control) what games they publish.

Was that directed at me?
Because if so I have no idea what you're trying to say.

And I would never miss "that Valve controls(or should control) what games they publish". I pretty much agree with that, although ideology and business don't mix.

To put it the most simply I can, never expect anything good from something that is free; never expect any business to put ideology ahead of profit.

Sure there are exceptions, but those are rare and to EXPECT something free to be good is just unrealistic no matter what the source is.

Chaoseer
07-23-2011, 10:49 AM
I think there's no such thing as quality control.

There're some bad paid game on Steam, some good indie games which rejected from Steam, and some games which people want it on Steam but they won't.

It's all about business, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Jokerman_
07-23-2011, 11:40 AM
Can steam add project blackout?
looks kinda fun...

DollerDollah
07-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Some people actually like AVA for what it is. Really. Just as long as we don't get garbage like Family Guy Online, we'll be fine.

crunchyfrog555
07-23-2011, 12:08 PM
There are always those that get their nose bent out of shape over free stuff. When something is free, you say thank you. If it's fun, you play, if not, you move on. Not a big deal.:confused:

This is precisely how it should be.

Standards I feel should be fairly loose on free games, as there is no risk for yourselves to make fair complaint over.

So it is very much a case of like it and play it, or move on.

As to comments about Steam "becoming full" of FTP games, that's complete nonsense. When was the last time you were aware of every single game on Steam?

There are already more games on Steam than you can comfortably remember, so adding to that detracts nothing.

Smog1984
07-23-2011, 01:11 PM
Champions Online is good. That's about the only f2p I can think of on Steam that doesn't require payment to progress. There's features only for premium players but free players aren't forced to pay to enjoy the game imo.

Polantaris
07-23-2011, 01:20 PM
I like how OP is whining about free games.

His complaint is that it mauls the good reputation in most of the games in Steam. Steam typically has polished, or at least acceptably playable games that it releases. With some of these F2P games, they look like they weren't even played, let along polished. That's his problem.

They might be free, but meanwhile they're taking space up in the store because they're utter ♥♥♥♥.

crunchyfrog555
07-23-2011, 01:24 PM
His complaint is that it mauls the good reputation in most of the games in Steam. Steam typically has polished, or at least acceptably playable games that it releases. With some of these F2P games, they look like they weren't even played, let along polished. That's his problem.

They might be free, but meanwhile they're taking space up in the store because they're utter ♥♥♥♥.

This is the kind of statement that is completely nonsense. Taking up space?

That is of so little consequence, and the reason I asked "are you aware of every game in the store?"

Their inclusion is hurting nothing or detracting from nothing other than some odd sensibilities you may have.

To put no too fine a point on it - you cannot reasonably accuse something of "taking up space" unless their is a finite maximum to contend with.

Frankly, they're are not utter ♥♥♥♥ (as you claim). Some are not so good, some are good, no different to all other games.

stella artois
07-23-2011, 01:50 PM
If they can't afford more than 40 support staff and can't afford more servers to manage the increased loads during sales, then yes there is a strictly limited amount of resources they're working with. Endless F2P games will for a FACT negatively impact upon their paid for services/customers.

Pl2sku
07-23-2011, 01:58 PM
I hope Steam adds NA and EU versions of Combat Arms to their Free-to-Play list, would be awesome-sauce!

crunchyfrog555
07-23-2011, 01:59 PM
If they can't afford more than 40 support staff and can't afford more servers to manage the increased loads during sales, then yes there is a strictly limited amount of resources they're working with. Endless F2P games will for a FACT negatively impact upon their paid for services/customers.

That's a fair comment as far as resources, although that's incorrect in presumption that they can't afford these things; they're continually advertising for such staff, and managing server space. Although, trying and getting are two different things.

One cannot make such bold assumptions without knowing (or at least some empathy for) what they do.

Masacru
07-23-2011, 02:46 PM
First of all, Ijji is a great site, secondly I don't know where you've seen their site as being set up in /broken english/ I didn't see it, also calling AvA an alpha state game it's hilarious. I am not a fan of the game as I don't really play it, but you sir must be new to internet.

Oh y you whine bout a free game?

MeemoSQR
07-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Question is why on earth is vindictus not on steam?

jdun
07-23-2011, 03:12 PM
There are always those that get their nose bent out of shape over free stuff. When something is free, you say thank you. If it's fun, you play, if not, you move on. Not a big deal.:confused:

Yeah.

People whine too much about nothing.

No one is forcing him to play those free games. He might not like it but other do. His standard is his alone. He shouldn't imposed it on anybody else.

Slowjerk
07-23-2011, 03:56 PM
You're really not getting it.

There are HUNDREDS of free games out there.
Each of these Korean to America publishers has a dozen or more games in most cases, and there are so many dozens of them.
I'm not complaining that a "free" game is bad. I'm asking "Where is this going?" or "How does this work?". Steam obviously can't list every free game out there.. right? They're a publisher, who shouldn't be publishing bad games as it gives a negative image to them.

Are all these games going to be on the Steam "Free to Play" list?
With no metascore?
With no quality standards?
With us having to register an account with them instead of using our Steam one?

I thought, because these games are a small few on Steam, that they'd be okay. I thought some quality control person at Steam might have checked them all out.


It's also a bit of a big deal when they spam your email after you make an account with them. It's not like there is no risk associated with trying them out.

For Steam to have these F2P games, they should be Spiral_Knights/TF2/BF:H/Global_Agenda quality or better.


I know Steam denies publishing some games that are a lot better than AVA, which is even more confusing.

Maybe ... just maybe because AVA is one of the best if not the best mmofps out there. Go try something like combat arms and then come back ok?

It's free and you're crying ... just stop.

Oh and you need to make accounts with most of the games on that list except tf2 and spiral knights.

Tommybart
07-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Try Global Agenda. Next pvE (Quest etc.) update is coming soon.

Perfect multiplayer - shooting for age of 12+ but also good for adult players, whichare loving UT or Quake.

Polantaris
07-23-2011, 06:02 PM
This is the kind of statement that is completely nonsense. Taking up space?

That is of so little consequence, and the reason I asked "are you aware of every game in the store?"

Their inclusion is hurting nothing or detracting from nothing other than some odd sensibilities you may have.

To put no too fine a point on it - you cannot reasonably accuse something of "taking up space" unless their is a finite maximum to contend with.

Frankly, they're are not utter ♥♥♥♥ (as you claim). Some are not so good, some are good, no different to all other games.

Actually, you absolutely can complain about taking up space. When you're searching for a game, now you're wasting your HDD space, and also your time, to install a game that is a complete waste of your time. So there is a finite resource being taken up, it's called Harddrive space. If the game is ♥♥♥♥, and there's no way to know that through Steam, now you're wasting your time because usually Steam has decent games. Just because Steam itself doesn't have a space limit doesn't mean our computers don't.

Besides, don't jump down my throat for trying to clearly explain what the TC was trying to say. I have no opinion in the matter for the most part, I was just trying to clarify what he was saying. I don't really care about these F2P games, because I have a plethora of other games to play.

Friendliest
07-23-2011, 06:02 PM
yeah there's a standard.

it's called "free to play". <--has its own meaning. among other possible interpretations: "not good enough to pay money for".

Polantaris
07-23-2011, 06:05 PM
yeah there's a standard.

it's called "free to play". <--has its own meaning. among other possible interpretations: "not good enough to pay money for".

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. So I guess TF2 isn't good enough to pay money for. Oh wait, the tons of sales it had before it went F2P say otherwise.

crunchyfrog555
07-23-2011, 06:12 PM
yeah there's a standard.

it's called "free to play". <--has its own meaning. among other possible interpretations: "not good enough to pay money for".

It's silly to make such sweeping statements like this.

Apart from the obvious TF2 analogy (as above post), it's complete nonsense. If you don't like FTP, fair enough, but please don't make such bold nonsense up in some sort of self-justification.

Brandon90
07-23-2011, 06:33 PM
Is there standards for "pay for" games?

i got Red Faction Guerilla, had to make an account for GFWL, had to enter CD Keys. no steam achievements or leaderboards!
its taking up space.



btw i love Guerilla, was just a quick game i know that used a program outside Steam and required a CD Key

crunchyfrog555
07-23-2011, 07:41 PM
Is there standards for "pay for" games?

i got Red Faction Guerilla, had to make an account for GFWL, had to enter CD Keys. no steam achievements or leaderboards!
its taking up space.



btw i love Guerilla, was just a quick game i know that used a program outside Steam and required a CD Key

Very true!

I don't know where this misconception comes from that FTP games are that way because they're too poor in quality to charge for.

Most of them have every bit of development the same as any other game. They just use a different business model.

Which has some merit. Valve have gone on record (for I believe it was L4D in reference to 50% off sales) by saying that at such time, sales go up by a very large factor, which gives them more income than at regular price. And of course, digitally distributed games have no particular costs involved per copy.

So from a FTP point of view, you're doing your best to ensuring everybody possible gets to play the game by removing the initial price factor. So, they make their money from those that truly invest time and love in the game by micro-transactions.

It's not so hard to see why TF2 can support this model.

So, like or loathe FTP for such things as micro-payments, fine, but don't loathe them because of some twisted thinking in that they're "lesser" games - of course there are some, but as Brandon says above, that's certainly just as true for any game.

Innociv
07-23-2011, 10:46 PM
His complaint is that it mauls the good reputation in most of the games in Steam. Steam typically has polished, or at least acceptably playable games that it releases. With some of these F2P games, they look like they weren't even played, let along polished. That's his problem.

They might be free, but meanwhile they're taking space up in the store because they're utter ♥♥♥♥.
Exactly. I'm quite miffed at how many didn't read my post and understand my complaint is that Steam doesn't appear to have standards for what F2P games are added(thus, they might ALL be added and it'd be full of crud), and it wasn't a complaint that AVA is bad.
AVA is bad, so what, doesn't matter when it's just on ijji's site and not Steam. The problem is Steam having a shining example of what gives F2P games a bad rap.

And someone did rightfully mention that there are pretty darn bad pay for games on Steam. But, they're very few and at least they have a metascore.
I also haven't seen any of those really terrible games added to Steam in the past year. I only remember some when the catalog was small.


Question is why on earth is vindictus not on steam?
Another example of how not all F2P games are bad. The "Get what you pay for" argument is so, so bad, seeing as how good F2P games are very profitable.
F2P is a business model, it's not a free game. I'm glad at least half the reply'ers realize this, though that's still less than I'd hope for.


Try Global Agenda. Next pvE (Quest etc.) update is coming soon.
I have. The quality is fine. My issue is not being able to find good F2P games. I know of many, I've played so many games. I have 125 games on Steam, and that's probably just a quarter of the games I've actually played.

Maybe ... just maybe because AVA is one of the best if not the best mmofps out there. Go try something like combat arms and then come back ok?
TF2, Global Agenda, All Points Bulletin, Huxley(Not that good.. but still better), Battlefield Heroes, there is probably at least a dozen more.
AVA is worse than about any mod I've played, which are truely free games. In fact, I've played internal test versions of mods that are better quality.

But eh, for the people that somehow do like AVA, it's always been available on ijji's site. Why's it on Steam?

My issue is that if something that bad of quality can be on Steam, then it opens the door to every average or worse F2P game.

tbbxv
07-23-2011, 10:50 PM
Maybe ... just maybe because AVA is one of the best if not the best mmofps out there. Go try something like combat arms and then come back ok?

It's free and you're crying ... just stop.

Oh and you need to make accounts with most of the games on that list except tf2 and spiral knights.

Wait... you're RECOMMENDING Combat Arms? Lolno.

Innociv
07-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Or you know, that'd be good; I've mentioned metascore a lot.


Steam should only allow games that have gotten a number of reviews to make a metascore.
These Free to Play games, for some reason(sarcastically said, the reason tends to be obvious), do not ask reviewers to review their game.


I don't think SEGA would have any issue asking reviewers to review Spiral Knights. They currently only have one review done, by GamePro, who gave an 80. Metacritic needs a few reviews done before a score is made.

The only ones with a metascore seem to be ones that previously weren't F2P.

FreemanForPrez
07-23-2011, 11:59 PM
Steam should only allow games that have gotten a number of reviews to make a metascore.
These Free to Play games, for some reason(sarcastically said, the reason tends to be obvious), do not ask reviewers to review their game.



Why should they only allow those games? Just because you want them to?

I haven't seen any I'm personally interested in, but damn, they're free. *Somebody* is going to enjoy them. And if they don't, no big deal, you know? Download it, try it, enjoy it or uninstall it.

No investment, nothing lost but maybe some time, and unless you've only got a week left to live, the time wasted on a bad game is negligible.

There are a lot of things in life worth arguing for, but this isn't one of them.

Innociv
07-24-2011, 12:09 AM
It's not like the games aren't available outside Steam if people are interested in them.

Should Steam have every game? No, there should be standards.

They have shown having standards for other games, so I'm not sure how AVA got through. Granted, some good games have been denied publishing on Steam while bad ones have gotten on it, but nothing quite as bad as AVA as far as I know.

FreemanForPrez
07-24-2011, 12:13 AM
It's not like the games aren't available outside Steam if people are interested in them.

Should Steam have every game? No, there should be standards.

They have shown having standards for other games, so I'm not sure how AVA got through. Granted, some good games have been denied publishing on Steam while bad ones have gotten on it, but nothing quite as bad as AVA as far as I know.

DOES Steam have every game?
Why do you care so much?
It's just a marketing gimmick and Steam is a business. They don't have any real standards for any other games either, except maybe their own, so why should F2P games be any different?

Zdaltorio
07-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Are there ever any standards for anything that's free?

Linux, has standards and guess what its free. :P

Now that that is been said, I have to say some of the quality of the free games is lacking. AvA for example has had preformance issues for a long time, where your fps will slowly drop than stop in the single digits area. But at least combat arms isn't on here "shutters at the thought of that game on steam"

Innociv
07-24-2011, 01:15 AM
DOES Steam have every game?
Why do you care so much?
It's just a marketing gimmick and Steam is a business. They don't have any real standards for any other games either, except maybe their own, so why should F2P games be any different?
Wrong.
Valve does not accept every game that requests to be published on Steam.

But it seems they made an exception for AVA.

FreemanForPrez
07-24-2011, 01:15 AM
Linux, has standards and guess what its free. :P



Well in the post you quoted me from I also said there's good free stuff and there's bad free stuff.

Linux is open source software and yes, has certain standards. Same with OpenGL and GIMP and Blender and Open Office and all sorts of other software in that category.

It should have been obvious though that this discussion is not about some open source project with explicit standards or guidelines.

This is about a for-profit company using free games as a means of marketing, just like many other companies use all kinds of free stuff for other marketing purposes, and in that context, "free" is more often or not a "this is what you get, good or bad, take it or leave it" thing.

FreemanForPrez
07-24-2011, 01:28 AM
Wrong.
Valve does not accept every game that requests to be published on Steam.

But it seems they made an exception for AVA.

I never said they publish every game they get requested to publish. DO we know why though? Do you? Is it all about quality as you seem to think? Do you have their list of criteria handy for us to read?

Could it maybe be about money and not quality? Sales probability vs. the amount of work to get a title on Steam?

Lulzator
07-24-2011, 01:48 AM
They are FTP for a reason, don't have high expectations for a game that makes its revenue from selling in game crap.

Innociv
07-24-2011, 02:03 AM
I never said they publish every game they get requested to publish. DO we know why though? Do you? Is it all about quality as you seem to think? Do you have their list of criteria handy for us to read?

Could it maybe be about money and not quality? Sales probability vs. the amount of work to get a title on Steam?

You're the one that said they don't have any standards for what they publish.

You're going back on something you posted only an hour ago?

FreemanForPrez
07-24-2011, 02:13 AM
You're the one that said they don't have any standards for what they publish.

You're going back on something you posted only an hour ago?

I had said "They don't have any real standards for any other games either, except maybe their own, so why should F2P games be any different?"
I meant it figuratively. I should have added something like "or so it seems". I would never try to claim explicitly that they do or do not because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes at Valve.

Okay, now it's your turn to show what criteria Valve uses to accept or deny a game, and/or what games have been refused and why:

"Valve does not accept every game that requests to be published on Steam."

Zdaltorio
07-24-2011, 02:16 AM
snip


While i understand what you are saying, if there was a QC on the f2p games, new players who were drawn in by those games see that they are good(or great), will assume that the games that cost money are even better. thus more likely to spend money in the store. also having good quality free games will draw in more people than having mediocre free games.(not saying any are) Also having a QC on free games as well as Pay for games, is not only better for valve but better for us as users(consumers).

edit: better for valve since steam doesn't get criticism for accepting low quality games(its a better for valves(steams) PR), better for us because better quality games. see its a win/win :D

FreemanForPrez
07-24-2011, 02:21 AM
While i understand what you are saying, if there was a QC on the f2p games, new players who were drawn in by those games see that they are good(or great), will assume that the games that cost money are even better. thus more likely to spend money in the store. also having good quality free games will draw in more people than having mediocre free games.(not saying any are) Also having a QC on free games as well as Pay for games, is not only better for valve but better for us as users(consumers).

Well the problem with that is, how do they convince developers to make great free games?
I wouldn't make the blanket statement that all free games are bad, just that any great game isn't likely to be free in the first place.
But you never know - if the idea catches on for developers to make a great game free for the explicit purpose of selling DLC, there probably will be more QC.

As far as I can tell though, the current crop of F2P seems almost to be an experiment, like Valve feeling it out to see how well it works.

crunchyfrog555
07-24-2011, 02:54 AM
They are FTP for a reason, don't have high expectations for a game that makes its revenue from selling in game crap.

Yet another regurgitation of this blinkered fallacy. Heaven help some people should they choose one day to take off those blinkers and try things before making rash judgements.

crunchyfrog555
07-24-2011, 02:59 AM
While i understand what you are saying, if there was a QC on the f2p games, new players who were drawn in by those games see that they are good(or great), will assume that the games that cost money are even better. thus more likely to spend money in the store. also having good quality free games will draw in more people than having mediocre free games.(not saying any are) Also having a QC on free games as well as Pay for games, is not only better for valve but better for us as users(consumers).

edit: better for valve since steam doesn't get criticism for accepting low quality games(its a better for valves(steams) PR), better for us because better quality games. see its a win/win :D

Sorry, but there's way too many assumptions in there, and many of them are inaccurate. How do you assume that MANY will work out that games that cost more (vs FTP) will equate to a higher quality. Many casual or new gamers will not think of this, and the more experienced will certainly know that is not true. All they will look for is to what level does a certain restrict with it's FTP part.

I'm quite sure Valve do have QC on games. It's just that do you honestly feel more qualified than them to say what represents a certain standard?

I've been a gaming journalist for a number of years, and have had to work on games sometimes to unreasonable lengths. Naturally, I've had to play games which I didn't necessarily like. Also, I have an astonishing amount of games, partly due to collecting them for over 30 years. So, I consider myself (and others have professed too) that I have good knowledge of games, and am pretty good at reviewing them; in other words, I know what's good in a game, and what's not, and how to word that to people.

That said, even I wouldn't claim to be qualified enough to QC for Valve.

Zdaltorio
07-24-2011, 03:08 AM
Sorry, but there's way too many assumptions in there, and many of them are inaccurate. How do you assume that MANY will work out that games that cost more (vs FTP) will equate to a higher quality. Many casual or new gamers will not think of this, and the more experienced will certainly know that is not true. All they will look for is to what level does a certain restrict with it's FTP part.

I'm quite sure Valve do have QC on games. It's just that do you honestly feel more qualified than them to say what represents a certain standard?

I've been a gaming journalist for a number of years, and have had to work on games sometimes to unreasonable lengths. Naturally, I've had to play games which I didn't necessarily like. Also, I have an astonishing amount of games, partly due to collecting them for over 30 years. So, I consider myself (and others have professed too) that I have good knowledge of games, and am pretty good at reviewing them; in other words, I know what's good in a game, and what's not, and how to word that to people.

That said, even I wouldn't claim to be qualified enough to QC for Valve.


Sorry about the assumptions, I'm just a misguided youth :P.

crunchyfrog555
07-24-2011, 03:10 AM
Sorry about the assumptions, I'm just a misguided youth :P.

Fair enough.

jumpluff
07-24-2011, 07:23 AM
Wait... you're RECOMMENDING Combat Arms? Lolno.

You misread that person's post. They were saying that AvA is good, especially compared to Combat Arms etc.