German Version of RO2 Cut or Uncut ?

[Aizon]

I was wondering since i couldnt find any information regarding the subject if the german version of RO2 will be censored in anyway ?

Or is it still too early to tell yet ?

Thanks in advance for any information you can give me.

[Yoshiro]

We don't know it. It is in the process of being submitted as far as I know.

But if I had to talk a wild guess we will probably have to take the same or similar steps we took with RO 1. No limb dismemberment and less blood (not no blood or green blood).

[Aizon]

Thank you for the quick and informative reply. :)

[4GibMe]

My best recommendation is to have a Steam friend gift it to you outside of the country, that is if it is possible with this game. Then you can pay them back via pay pal.

[TomKilla]

I'm afraid your suggestion will not work. I purchased a retail copy of RO1 from the UK (UK version = uncut) and I activated it in UK and back in germany it's cut! Hope in RO2 we germans get uncut if we buy uncut-version.

[TimL]

Bump

any news on this whether its going to be cut or not? Not going to purchase till I know it cause I dont want to have a cut game (had Killing Floor cut till I got steam support to remove it so I could get the uncut version..).

And what's with Red Orchestra 1? The "Low Violence Version" banner disappeared a while ago from the store page?

[I-the-gamer]

We don't know it. It is in the process of being submitted as far as I know.

But if I had to talk a wild guess we will probably have to take the same or similar steps we took with RO 1. No limb dismemberment and less blood (not no blood or green blood).

You don't HAVE to do any of these things -.-

Just suck it up and take the 18+ rating, this game isn't popular with kids and those that are interested in it will get it anyway. Save your REAL customers a lot of trouble and just release it uncut.

[Kradath]

You don't HAVE to do any of these things -.-

Just suck it up and take the 18+ rating, this game isn't popular with kids anyway, and those that are interested in it will get it anyway, and you save your REAL customers a lot of trouble.

I second that...

[dazen.]

You don't HAVE to do any of these things -.-

Just suck it up and take the 18+ rating, this game isn't popular with kids and those that are interested in it will get it anyway. Save your REAL customers a lot of trouble and just release it uncut.

Exactly, it is just a hassle for your customers. If it is cut I certainly won't buy it out of principle.

[Sakaar]

You don't HAVE to do any of these things -.-

Just suck it up and take the 18+ rating, this game isn't popular with kids and those that are interested in it will get it anyway. Save your REAL customers a lot of trouble and just release it uncut.

The problem wit h that will be it might end up on the index in which case they wont be able to advertise it or sell it over steam

[I-the-gamer]

Yes. It's extremely uncommon that games get put on the index for just gore. Unless you put Swastikas in the game there is no way that it will be banned in germany no matter how many limbs fly and blood spurts (see other games like doom 3 that get released normally with an 18+ rating despite extensive gore)

[Kradath]

The problem wit h that will be it might end up on the index in which case they wont be able to advertise it or sell it over steam

Brothers in Arms had dismemberment and it was just a normal 18+ title. The games that are actually on the index are really only few.

In most cases it is the question for the publisher wether the game will be 16 or 18+

[Darkshodan]

come on , gears of war 3 comes uncut in germany and rage also i heard today , with a 18 rating it should be np to release it uncut in germany.

[Sakaar]

Brothers in Arms had dismemberment and it was just a normal 18+ title. The games that are actually on the index are really only few.

In most cases it is the question for the publisher wether the game will be 16 or 18+

MY german version od BiA was censored had no flying limbs and less blood but if it will end up 18+ anyways just leave the gore in in my eyes games like Wargames and Zombieones simply need the gore so ill import mine most likely

[Kradath]

MY german version od BiA was censored had no flying limbs and less blood but if it will end up 18+ anyways just leave the gore in in my eyes games like Wargames and Zombieones simply need the gore so ill import mine most likely

The first two games were uncut, do you mean HH?

[Sakaar]

The first two games were uncut, do you mean HH?

yep the newest one

[Junoo]

I didn't buy a german game-version for years, why?

UK/US:
-Uncut
-Cheaper
-Better voice-acting most of the time

[TimL]

I got it now from a friend, so I hopefully wont get a cut version (since it's the UK Version). Would've loved to actually purchase the game on my own but I dont want to take the risk of having a cut game again (like with KF).

[Atelophobia]

Id like to preoder. But I dont wanna end up with the cut version of the game. Getting it as a gift doesnt seem to be a reliable solution too.... :(

[Haarvieh]

Even Dead Space 1 and 2 came out uncut in Germany. Ok DS2 had no FF in Multiplayer wich was stupid.
Gears of War 3 will be released uncut but 1 and 2 got on the index. GoW3 is in no way less brutal says the CEO of Epic.

I think they have lowered the standarts a bit in the violence department over teh years.

Tripwire if you cant get it trough uncut can you please cut it the same way Killing Floor is. I dont mean the cuts but the technical aspect for users that want to do something about it ;)

[Benmans]

I wonder, are there actually swastikas in the game? I can't really recall any in RO1. But that would be my main grievance if they would cut them out (like in old [read: pre-mw] cod games). Don't get me wrong, I don't favour right wings but I just hate to see iron crosses everywhere.

[Atelophobia]

I bought KF before there was a low violence version.... in steam with my german IP and a german credit card. It's still uncut. If I knew this would work here too Id instantly preorder!

[PCelitist]

If the game gets cut I'm not buying it and I'm telling everyone I know who could possibly be interested in it to do the same. The government is not my parent and I will not support developer/publisher who agrees that I should be treated as a child.

[Gunrun]

Oh so you'd rather have the game not be buyable by anyone in your country then?

[Darkshodan]

If the game gets cut I'm not buying it and I'm telling everyone I know who could possibly be interested in it to do the same. The government is not my parent and I will not support developer/publisher who agrees that I should be treated as a child.

i do exactly the same then :)

[beute89]

I dont know a single person that buys cut games.

Im no analyst but I seriously doubt a cut 16+ version will sell more than a uncut 18+ or index version.
This isnt CoD, there wont be much losses from 16 year olds that want the game but cant buy it because it's 18+.
99% of those 16year old will get it anyway, just like every ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gets alcohol, in this case mommy and daddy will probably even do it willingly, it's just a game...


This is a steamworks game right?
If so I will simply import it from the UK.
sad to miss out on the whole pre order bonuses and early beta access.. but oh well.

[TimL]

I so hope my now ROW preorder version (gifted from UK) wont be turned into a cut one. And I don't see why I would, cause I never saw any game turn into a cut version if it was gifted from abroad.
Let's all hope that one day Steam offers uncut games for all that validate their account somehow.

[ph41lkid]

the Australian is the low violence version, if that is any indication

[Jack Corban]

Come on Tripwire i know your reading this aswell just make the German version uncut. I myselfe preorderd the Game Twice for me and my Brother before the Steamstore page changed to "low violence version" This was supposed to be a Birthday gift for my Brother. Is this really how you repay Customers that own all of your games?

Suck up the 18+ Rating and make it Uncut.

I can't believe i'm begging on a Forum for this.....

[nizzie]

Come on Tripwire i know your reading this aswell just make the German version uncut. I myselfe preorderd the Game Twice for me and my Brother before the Steamstore page changed to "low violence version" This was supposed to be a Birthday gift for my Brother. Is this really how you repay Customers that own all of your games?

Suck up the 18+ Rating and make it Uncut.

I can't believe i'm begging on a Forum for this.....

This.

[Koltman]

Come on Tripwire i know your reading this aswell just make the German version uncut. I myselfe preorderd the Game Twice for me and my Brother before the Steamstore page changed to "low violence version" This was supposed to be a Birthday gift for my Brother. Is this really how you repay Customers that own all of your games?

Suck up the 18+ Rating and make it Uncut.

I can't believe i'm begging on a Forum for this.....

I already posted my thoughts on this in the other thread but since we have two I will chip in again here.

I agree with this poster 100%. Just use the same system you used with killingfloor. Release german retail like a month after RO2 launches so that everyone who bought the game beforehand gets a uncensored RoW key from Steam. After that you can do with the game whatever you want, replace the models with carebears for all I care.

Or how we say in Germany: Nach uns die Sintflut (after us the great flood)

Making your game steam exclusive and then discriminating by Ip/location during the first day its available for preorder is a sure fire way to piss a lot of people of.

[TimL]

I think its already too late, you got your DE Version already. I doubt they will change it.

[Darkshodan]

i have no problem when they "only" cut out the dismemberment.

but when they cut off also the blood(or reduce it) and ragdolls, i will be pretty jarateed off .

[Jack Corban]

As far as i'm concerned i got nothing at the moment. The game is not yet available and a "DE Preorder" to a "ROW Preorder" is as simple as clicking a button. For those guys at Steam.

Its just sad that i bought this game while believing it was uncut.
I mean the Storepage didn't show any sign of it beeing cut at all.

Well will have to apply for a Refund then...

Sad Panda :(

[Wilsonam]

Come on Tripwire i know your reading this aswell just make the German version uncut. I myselfe preorderd the Game Twice for me and my Brother before the Steamstore page changed to "low violence version" This was supposed to be a Birthday gift for my Brother. Is this really how you repay Customers that own all of your games?

Suck up the 18+ Rating and make it Uncut.

I can't believe i'm begging on a Forum for this.....

Ok, I don't know how many times we've said this: if we go "uncut", the game can be "indexed" - then we can't sell it in Germany at all. We're quite happy to go with 18+ - but, as we understand it, USK won't even give an 18+ rating if there is dismemberment in there - but we don't know what else they won't like until it has been through a pass...

[Jack Corban]

Then please explain to us how Titles like Rage can be uncut. And a Simple WW2 Shooter will be cut due to dismemberment. This is beyound me!

Are you really that afraid of beeing indexed? Have you even taken a look at the indexlist? Games like "Manhunt" are on there. Please explain to me how your game would be material to be indexed like that abomination of a Game.

I can watch a Movie with dimemberment in Germany. your too afraid of this Index ♥♥♥♥.

Ps.: If you'd just sell it on Steam ínstead of putting out a retail you would be able to circle around that issue right away. Hell i know noone that has not at least one Steam account. So who ever would buy that game would probably be thankfull to get it on Steam if it was uncut.

...

[Darkshodan]

i don't understand it , why you not sell first the uncut version till its get indexed and then make a cut version ,and sell it again, this should normaly work , when i am not totally wrong :confused:

[Yoshiro]

Then please explain to us how Titles like Rage can be uncut. And a Simple WW2 Shooter will be cut due to dismemberment. This is beyound me!

Are you really that afraid of beeing indexed? Have you even taken a look at the indexlist? Games like "Manhunt" are on there. Please explain to me how your game would be material to be indexed like that abomination of a Game.

I can watch a Movie with dimemberment in Germany. your too afraid of this Index ♥♥♥♥.

Ps.: If you'd just sell it on Steam ínstead of putting out a retail you would be able to circle around that issue right away. Hell i know noone that has not at least one Steam account. So who ever would buy that game would probably be thatnkfull to get it on Steam if it was uncut.

...

Games where you can commit extreme violence and gore against human like characters tend to be where they make their distinction. Less so against aliens and mutants. But nobody ever truly knows what the USK will come back with until they submit.

[Jack Corban]

I give up to this matter... will try to get my refund and be done with this...

... there was a time where all was better and most things were made of wood!

[Koltman]

Ok, I don't know how many times we've said this: if we go "uncut", the game can be "indexed" - then we can't sell it in Germany at all..

I see quite a lot of indexed games on my german steam store. Not to mention that you can simply refuse to get the game rated. Resulting in a "unrated" version which can be sold digitally without remorse. (the same is true for a indexed version btw, its just means that it cant be sold to minors, be advertised or be stocked on shelves)

And it would make a lot of your customers (basically every single one out of germany) happy. Unlike your current system which makes a lot of people miserable and while I cant claim to know your business I am sure that german retail sales cant be THAT important, especially since the game forces you to go with Steam either way.
And the most people who cling to the "physical copies only" mantra also vehemently refuse to use steam (so those can be disregarded as potential sales)

[Yoshiro]

German retail sales are the second largest market when it comes to the games industry. I would think that counts as important.

[Koltman]

i don't understand it , why you not sell first the uncut version till its get indexed and then make a cut version ,and sell it again, this should normaly work , when i am not totally wrong :confused:

Thats exactly how it works and also how I got HL2 uncut bought it on release day before anyone got a chance to rate it.

After that I made a new steam account and bought the valve complete pack which to my dismay was cut (biggest mistake of my life, at least in regards to videogame purchases :P)

German retail sales are the second largest market when it comes to the games industry. I would think that counts as important.

Then why not simply release 2 versions?
Unrated for Steam
And whatever other version for the retail market

It cant be that much work, one version is already finished and the other one will be made either way.

[Jack Corban]

German retail sales are the second largest market when it comes to the games industry. I would think that counts as important.

True but as stated above it forces you to use Steam anyway. So what harm does it to you making it non retail thus unrated?

No harm at all because everyone willing to buy it will get it on Steam anyway then.

I really don't get how stubborn you guys are.
Yes German market is big. But also everyone in germany willing to buy it will get it from steam. And here is the Kicker as long as its "UNCUT" it will be bought alot. When it is "CUT" however it will rot on the shelves. Believe me i life in this Godforsaken country and i know what i'm talking about. I wouldn't have bought it if i knew it was cut in the first place.

[Santoz]

Thats exactly how it works and also how I got HL2 uncut bought it on release day before anyone got a chance to rate it.

After that I made a new steam account and bought the valve complete pack which to my dismay was cut (biggest mistake of my life, at least in regards to videogame purchases :P)



Then why not simply release 2 versions?
Unrated for Steam
And whatever other version for the retail market

It cant be that much work, one version is already finished and the other one will be made either way.

^this

please devlopers release first the uncut version like it sayed here many times ,i love tripwire but i think you guys have no clue about the german laws sorry .

[Haarvieh]

Or if you really cant get it trough uncut please built in a "backdoor" like in Killing Floor for the pleasure of the costumer that can use his brain and google

[Darkshodan]

Or if you really cant get it trough uncut please built in a "backdoor" like in Killing Floor for the pleasure of the costumer that can use his brain and google

hehe good idea :P

[nizzie]

Ok, I don't know how many times we've said this: if we go "uncut", the game can be "indexed" - then we can't sell it in Germany at all. We're quite happy to go with 18+ - but, as we understand it, USK won't even give an 18+ rating if there is dismemberment in there - but we don't know what else they won't like until it has been through a pass...

Actually being indexed means that the game cannot be advertised or displayed in stores. It cannot be sold to minors, obviously. What you mean is a ban. Bans are relativly rare, although they did ban Left4Dead2.

What I want to know, I preordered the game before the announcement of 'low violence version' was put up in the store. Where does that leave me now? Is my version uncut? Is it cut? If so, can I cancel? What if I ask an American who owns RO1 to gift me the digital deluxe? Do I get beta access and the items?

[Jack Corban]

What makes me think is that a game featuring an Execution where a little kid has to watch his parets beeing shot and starting crying in a heartbreaking manor or where you have to cover yourselfe in corpses in a massgrave to not be found by enemy soldiers as they commit genocide (Homefront) is not material for Index but a little Dismemberment of armed soldiers by lets say an artillery strike is.

That alone should tip off Developers what to take the USK for.

I really hope the USK does some sloppy work on this one and just grants it Uncut.

[Jack Corban]

Actually being indexed means that the game cannot be advertised or displayed in stores. It cannot be sold to minors, obviously. What you mean is a ban. Bans are relativly rare, although they did ban Left4Dead2.

What I want to know, I preordered the game before the announcement of 'low violence version' was put up in the store. Where does that leave me now? Is my version uncut? Is it cut? If so, can I cancel? What if I ask an American who owns RO1 to gift me the digital deluxe? Do I get beta access and the items?

This leaves you where i'm at atm. It will be cut if USK decides to.
If not it will be uncut.

If USK decides it will be cut i will apply for a refund. Because i bought it the same way you did and without warning that it would be cut.

[Koltman]

Actually being indexed means that the game cannot be advertised or displayed in stores. It cannot be sold to minors, obviously. What you mean is a ban. Bans are relativly rare, although they did ban Left4Dead2.

What I want to know, I preordered the game before the announcement of 'low violence version' was put up in the store. Where does that leave me now? Is my version uncut? Is it cut? If so, can I cancel? What if I ask an American who owns RO1 to gift me the digital deluxe? Do I get beta access and the items?

You can check your account page to see if you got the DE version or the RoW version.

You will most probably have the DE version and thus the cut version.

According to steam refund policy you can get a refund during the preorder phase. Although support hasnt answered my request for a refund yet so I am not 100% on that.


And I dont think L4D2 is "banned". In fact I dont know a single thing that is "banned". L4D2 is on the Index B, which has the same restrictions as Index A (no ads, no minors, no stocking on shelves)

[beute89]

German retail sales are the second largest market when it comes to the games industry. I would think that counts as important.

Is that true?
I would've thought both the US/UK and japan would be in front of germany when it comes to game sales.
Or are you only talking about PC games?(in wich case I would agree,as japanese seem to think that PC's cant play games and american PC game sales are in a huge decline)

anyway, gears of war 3 will let you smash peoples head into pieces, human heads...
the aliens in dead space2 can rip you (a human) apart in a very brutal script sequence.
So I would think they got a little bit less restrictive these days.

Did you guys sent in the uncensored version of the game and wait for the guys to answer or how did you do it?
I would be very dissappointed if you didnt even try to get the approval of the uncut version of the game and instead went for the censorship directly...

[beute89]

And I dont think L4D2 is "banned". In fact I dont know a single thing that is "banned". L4D2 is on the Index B, which has the same restrictions as Index A (no ads, no minors, no stocking on shelves)

Well, that would make index B pointless :X

no, Index B forbids selling and import.
yes, you're allowed to play it, just like you're allowed to smoke weed.
but selling it or giving it away will get you into trouble.

[Koltman]

Is that true?


Its true for Pc Games at least.

I dont think the german console market is all that strong

[Koltman]

Well, that would make index B pointless :X

no, Index B forbids selling and import.
yes, you're allowed to play it, just like you're allowed to smoke weed.
but selling it or giving it away will get you into trouble.

Dont make me go Wikipedia on you

"Medien, die sich auf der Liste B befinden, unterliegen, entgegen anderslautenden Gerüchten, keinem Verbreitungsverbot, sondern zunächst nur den üblichen Indizierungsbeschränkungen. Nur falls es zu einer bundesweiten Beschlagnahme durch ein Gericht kommt, ist auch die Abgabe an Erwachsene verboten. Die Einschätzung der Bundesprüfstelle, ob ein Medium strafgesetzeswidrig ist, ist für Gerichte unverbindlich."

For non german readers: index B means nothing except that if you get the court on your side (you wont) you can invoke a proper ban.
Other than that its exactly like Index A.

I dont think this ever happened (the widepsread ban for adults part, plenty of things are on index B), at least not in my lifetime.
Maybe with "Mein Kampf" but Im not even sure on that.

Edit: just looked it up, you cann sell/buy "Mein Kampf" as antiquarian/used version, I dont think you can print new ones though

[Santoz]

Did you guys sent in the uncensored version of the game and wait for the guys to answer or how did you do it?
I would be very dissappointed if you didnt even try to get the approval of the uncut version of the game and instead went for the censorship directly...

i bet they send a censored version to the usk, all devlopers are too scared for no reasons anymore , look at rage,dead space,homefront,gears of war 3 ect. all uncut here in germany

when a devloper has "balls" , they can release it here uncut in germany without problems

[Koltman]

i bet they send a censored version to the usk, all devlopers are too scared for no reasons anymore , look at rage,dead space,homefront,gears of war 3 ect. all uncut here in germany

when a devloper has "balls" , they can release it here uncut in germany without problems

funfact: if you keep sending in the same version over and over, sooner or later it will get approved.

The USK just wants to feel that its needed:P
(and they dont want to loose funding)

[Jack Corban]

MAKE THIS GAME UNCUT!!!! RAGE!!!!!!

Sry for that but it is beyound me how developers can even give a ♥♥♥♥ about this. For gods sake make this game a digital version only and be done with it. Its really not that hard.

[Santoz]

funfact: if you keep sending in the same version over and over, sooner or later it will get approved.

The USK just wants to feel that its needed:P
(and they dont want to loose funding)

haha yes i think that happend with dead space 1 , they sended the same version 5 times to the usk :P before they got it uncut

[Haarvieh]

haha yes i think that happend with dead space 1 , they sended the same version 5 times to the usk :P before they got it uncut

But every testing costs money on the developers/publishers side.
And there is the problem that violence against nonhuman lifeforms is not as hard seen as violence against humans.

[Sakaar]

i bet they send a censored version to the usk, all devlopers are too scared for no reasons anymore , look at rage,dead space,homefront,gears of war 3 ect. all uncut here in germany

when a devloper has "balls" , they can release it here uncut in germany without problems

Most of the games you mentioned are placed in a scenario where you fights aliens monsers or some weirdos barely looking human like and thats exactly the problem with an ww2 shooter your fighting models clearly identiyable has humans....the german usk dont like that :P

and if you bring up homefront thats a joke it had barely any gore and no flying limbs

[Koltman]

But every testing costs money on the developers/publishers side.
And there is the problem that violence against nonhuman lifeforms is not as hard seen as violence against humans.

I know, I never suggested TWI should do it only that its possible, shows how pointless USK really is.

My suggestion is 2 versions:
USK approbed Retail
and Unrated Digital

Problem solved.


Also technically you are fighting humans in dead space.


Another funfact about USK:
apparently red blood was too hardcore for Half Life Zombies
but later red blood was A-OK for L4D zombies and they cut the "blood on screen" effect out instead. There is absolutely no consistency. In Fact L4D zombies look MUCH MORE humans than HL zombies.

Moral of the story? USK doesnt know what it actually wants to prevent, it just cuts out a random part so they can show that they have done something (please dont cut our funding!!!)

[Jack Corban]

and if you bring up homefront thats a joke it had barely any gore and no flying limbs

Yeah right covering yourselfe in corpses or watching an execution of unarmed civilians with there 2-3 year old standing next to them crying like hell. Or driving by while people get suffercated in plasticbags or beaten to death is no display of violence at all. Trollolololol

[Sakaar]

Yeah right covering yourselfe in corpses or watching an execution of unarmed civilians with there 2-3 year old standing next to them crying like hell. Or driving by while people get suffercated in plasticbags or beaten to death is no display of violence at all. Trollolololol

thats no gore for them they dont care bout that stuff als long as there are no flying limbs thats just what it is

[freshdachs]

Ugh... I preordered the deluxe version before the "low violence" label.. this kinda sucks. I bought KF over Steam pretty early and it was uncut from the beginning and it stayed so (even though now it says "low violence", too).

[Koltman]

Its not so much about actual Violence but about glorification of violence.

You can show a tragic car crash in all its gory glory if it serves a purpose.

You cant however make a game where decapitating people is the driving force behind your characters actions.
And if you put a rating system for the effeciency of your kills or something similiar on top of that, the game will be guaranteed to be put on the index.


Thats also why the german translations are often so completly weird and you have "takedowns" or "neutralize" an enemy in german where in the english version it would be a "kill" or a "frag". And a Killstreak is a "series of hits" and stuff like that.

And imho its totally horrible

[Sakaar]

Ugh... I preordered the deluxe version before the "low violence" label.. this kinda sucks. I bought KF over Steam pretty early and it was uncut from the beginning and it stayed so (even though now it says "low violence", too).

you can chck what your preoder say should say DE regardless of how fast you bought it meaning youll end up with a cut version

[Jack Corban]

thats no gore for them they dont care bout that stuff als long as there are no flying limbs thats just what it is

sry when i see a child crying because its parents are shot infront of it is getting chilly in my spine. When i see Soldiers die on the field of Honor defending their country (even in a game) i don't feel that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcDN2EggYNE

watch from 3:14 - 6:20 ish

And you know what i'm talking about.
I find this harder to watch then a Goremovie or a gory game.

[Sakaar]

sry when i see a child crying because its parents are shot infron of him is getting chilly in my spine. When i see Soldiers die on the field of Honor defending their country (even in a game) i don't feel that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcDN2EggYNE

watch from 3:14 - 6:20 ish

And you know what i'm talking about.
I find this harder to watch then a Goremovie or a gory game.

I am very well aware of that scene but as It is today the USK seems to be forgiving about psychological violence presented in a "movie" like way so your not actally taking part in it and an aktive way of throwing an nade on someone and blowing his legs off

[Koltman]

Ugh... I preordered the deluxe version before the "low violence" label.. this kinda sucks. I bought KF over Steam pretty early and it was uncut from the beginning and it stayed so (even though now it says "low violence", too).

Killing Floor started digital only. It was unrated back then (steam did still sell it though, apparently TWI forgot that or something).

After Killing Floor became such a sleeper hit(I assume thats the reason, maybe it was TWIs intention all along) it got a retail version and rating. Since this day its only available cut through steam.

RO2 will get a retail release and a rating right away.

[bugfix]

Who gave you the idea that you can't sell a game in Germany when it's indexed? That is simply not true. You can still sell it, just not advertise it. What you mean is the "Beschlagnahmung" of game that has happened about 5 times in the last 30 years.

[Domakk]

What I want to know, I preordered the game before the announcement of 'low violence version' was put up in the store. Where does that leave me now? Is my version uncut? Is it cut? If so, can I cancel? What if I ask an American who owns RO1 to gift me the digital deluxe? Do I get beta access and the items?

That would be really interesting, am I still able to get the uncensored game gifted from somewhere where it is uncensored? A friend of mine is going to visit Austria in some days and he wanted to gift the game to me and another friend of us in order to get it uncensored so please, dear Tripwire, tell us if that works (we really want to give you our money ;) )

[bugfix]

Also will we get the uncut version if we ordered before the Low Violence Logo appeared on the store page?

[nizzie]

Also will we get the uncut version if we ordered before the Low Violence Logo appeared on the store page?

Seems like this is not the case. I preordered before it showed up, and according to my account page I'll get the DE version, not the ROW (rest of the world). I opened a ticket to get a refund, and then I'll ask an American to gift me the preorder.

[PCelitist]

Steam sadly refuses to sell unrated versions in Germany even though they could quite legally sell any version to any country online through the US online store or through an online store registered in some banana republic as long as the content owner agrees. If the game wasn't dependent on Steam and Steamworks you could just import the game but Steam won't let you activate unrated version from Germany. Surely you can try to use a proxy to activate the game but I won't because I a: don't need it that badly and b: don't want to give Steam a reason to close my account. So there you go, another game ruined by German government and another reason to hate Steam.

[bugfix]

So there you go, another game ruined by German government and another reason to hate Steam.

If Valve would implement an age verification system for Steam, we wouldn't have these problems.

[zauiii89]

MAKE THIS GAME UNCUT!!!! RAGE!!!!!!

Sry for that but it is beyound me how developers can even give a ♥♥♥♥ about this. For gods sake make this game a digital version only and be done with it. Its really not that hard.


They've given their reasons, the german PC market is one of the biggest there is, they'd lose potential sales and besides read what Wilson said in regards to the 18+ suggestion.

Other than that, it's not the developers fault initially, most if not all other countries in Europe will have the uncut version , sadly its an unique issue with German laws which is quite ridiculous.

Time for a revolution maybe?

[Shoelip]

They've given their reasons, the german PC market is one of the biggest there is, they'd lose potential sales and besides read what Wilson said in regards to the 18+ suggestion.

Other than that, it's not the developers fault initially, most if not all other countries in Europe will have the uncut version , sadly its an unique issue with German laws which is quite ridiculous.

Time for a revolution maybe?

Hell why not. Their last one turned out great... oh wait.

Look on the bright side though Germany. At least you won't be alone for too much longer if Australia keeps going the way it has been.

[Hamamtaro]

I pre-purchased Red Orchestra 2, but now in the shop I see a message about it being a "low violence-version", although the message was not there when I made the purchase. Did I buy the normal version or a censored one without being told?



Long Answer:
Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

Per the requirements of the German Federal Inspection Bureau for Media, Steam users with German IP addresses or billing addresses may only purchase the German version of this game via Steam.

Please see the website below for more information regarding the regulation of video game content distributed in Germany.

Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien
http://www.bundespruefstelle.de/

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Short Answer:
F*** you!

Woulda been nice to now before I bought it. Anyway, still looking forward to playing that game :)

[bugfix]

Per the requirements of the German Federal Inspection Bureau for Media, Steam users with German IP addresses or billing addresses may only purchase the German version of this game via Steam.


That is a ridiculous lie. There IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT.

Edit: Also I'm going to demand a refund. Since they pretend to take German law seriously, they'll have to give it to me because the product is different from what was advertised. (Anfechtung nach §§ 119, 133, 157 BGB)

[JoWhat]

a little googling could save a lot of angst..

• http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=18936.0

[nizzie]

That is a ridiculous lie. There IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT.

This.

[Amy]

a little googling could save a lot of angst..

• http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=18936.0

Exactly how you can get ripped off and get your account perm disabled for gift resell.

[Juppez]

What kind of rating games have in germany PEGI?

[StaunchGamers]

To all Australians & Germans:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=de (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=de) — Gewaltgemindert: Gewaltgeminderte Version
http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=au (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=au) — Low Violence: Low Violence Version

So you 100% get the CENSORED/CUT versions.

If you want to get the UNCUT/UNCESORED version of this or ANY other game from the Steam Store, just use a foreign friend who to send you the game as "UNCUT" "Gifted" Copy using Steam, so easy!

If someone is interested, PM me for more info.

I hope that I help to all guys from "cut" countries with this msg.

Thanks.

[bugfix]

@StaunchGamers Thank you for your kind offer, I'll take you up on it, as soon as I get my money back :D

[Dr.Phibes]

So you 100% get the CENSORED/CUT versions.

Thanks.

Wrong. This is just some precaution since the game hasn't been rated yet. They just don't want to make any false promises.

[StaunchGamers]

Alright, if you say so.

Usually no one cares + it doesn't matters. Dead Island is removed (http://store.steampowered.com/app/91310/?cc=de), L4D1/2, CSS (http://store.steampowered.com/app/240/?cc=de) and many, many other games are censored, Dunno why do you still thinks, that EVEN if there is the rating released, the game won't be uncutted!? I bet 99,99% that it WON'T as usual. So GL :).

History - that's the point.

[TimL]

They are not going to bring out an uncut game if the USK moans (and USK will moan, like with any other WW2 game), I think one of the guys at Tripwire already stated this in this topic.

[Shoelip]

The solution to all your gaming woes is quite simple. Emigration!

[StaunchGamers]

The solution to all your gaming woes is quite simple. Emigration!

Nope. But... mainly I prefer to be a German, earning min. €30 per hour and spend on censored games, in the other side is €1,5-€3 per hour (work) and spending on uncut games, lol. But even if I live in DE/AU, there're ways (for me) to get ANY game uncut in minutes (which I keep in private, not for sale to anyone).

[Koltman]

The solution to all your gaming woes is quite simple. Emigration!

Yes because Steam doesnt offer a service that I would like for my location, I should leave the country.


Makes sense? No

You know what would be a better solution? Changing my digital distributor. Unfortunately RO2 is Steam exclusive, so im entirely ♥♥♥♥ed

[Junoo]

Maybe you shouldn't vote for political parties like the CDU, FDP or SPD.
Even "Die Grünen" are not safe to vote counting this issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po33La1N974

[Jack Corban]

In a few years this will hopefully be over for good the current Poleticians are luckily dying at some point in the future making place for better more evolved Human beeings.

[Koltman]

Maybe you shouldn't vote for political parties like the CDU, FDP or SPD.
Even "Die Grünen" are not safe to vote counting this issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po33La1N974

Or maybe Steam should offer a simple Age Verification like Amazon or every other shop does.

Im not gonna vote for the pirate party just for a single videogame, wtf is wrong with you people?

[Shoelip]

Yes because Steam doesnt offer a service that I would like for my location, I should leave the country.


Makes sense? No

You know what would be a better solution? Changing my digital distributor. Unfortunately RO2 is Steam exclusive, so im entirely ♥♥♥♥ed

Apparently the impenetrability of German humor works both ways.

[Dr.Phibes]

Apparently the impenetrability of German humor works both ways.

There is no such concept as humor in Schland.

[oi u agree]

Yes because Steam doesnt offer a service that I would like for my location, I should leave the country.


Makes sense? No

You know what would be a better solution? Changing my digital distributor. Unfortunately RO2 is Steam exclusive, so im entirely ♥♥♥♥ed

Have you ever considered how you can easily get the game uncut by getting another person in a different country to gift the game to you?

It's like some people in this thread really don't like to use their heads.

[Hamamtaro]

There is no such concept as humor in Schland.

We from ze great schweinhundland have no humor zat i would know about. Now get back to work quickly or I must call ze overseer.

[Koltman]

Have you ever considered how you can easily get the game uncut by getting another person in a different country to gift the game to you?

It's like some people in this thread really don't like to use their heads.

Have you ever considered how I dont want to get scammed out of my money by a foreigner that I have never seen face to face in my life before?

Fact is: I SHOULDNT have to jump through a million hoops to get the version of the game that I want and are legally able to obtain, just because Tripwire/steam doesnt want to offer said version for my location due to ???

[TimL]

Then get over it and stick with the cut version, easy as that.

[StaunchGamers]

kaltman, that's why people have "vouches" on Internet (or on eBay - ratings). More vouches = more legitimness. So you can be 100% safe.

[Jack Corban]

kaltman, that's why people have "vouches" on Internet (or on eBay - ratings). More vouches = more legitimness. So you can be 100% safe.

100% safe is a Term only a Scammer uses dear Sir. And Funfact you could get banned for advertising Your "Paid for Gifting Service" on the Forums.

[Leo4444]

Its surprising how many germans are blaming tripwire instead of their government. If it really was easy to get around laws all games in germany would be uncensored. Also every other country has no problem in releasing games uncensored but yeah blame tripwire.

[StaunchGamers]

Alright, if you say so, 99%. 99% is even from your friends, also you. Many people posted on the forums that they purchased some game and their bank on the 2nd/3rd day blocked the transaction & refunded the transfer to Steam, so... you can't be 100% safe even doing a purchased with your own PayPal or Credit/Debit Card — "funfact" again.

@Leo4444: Don't forget for Australia :). After few months maybe Norway 3rd.

[Shoelip]

Have you ever considered how I dont want to get scammed out of my money by a foreigner that I have never seen face to face in my life before?

Fact is: I SHOULDNT have to jump through a million hoops to get the version of the game that I want and are legally able to obtain, just because Tripwire/steam doesnt want to offer said version for my location due to ???

So what you're saying is the government's censorship laws are not in any way a problem because they are broken and have a loophole in them which allows hassle free 100% bypassing of them thus making them completely meaningless?

[Koltman]

So what you're saying is the government's censorship laws are not in any way a problem because they are broken and have a loophole in them which allows hassle free 100% bypassing of them thus making them completely meaningless?

You dont even know what you are talking about.
Loopholes? What?

What "censorship laws" are you even referring to?

There are "youth protection laws" that index games and prevent them from being advertised. Thats all there is. There is no law forcing censorship ITS ENTIRELY UP TO THE PUBLISHERS/DEVELOPERS

Why do you keep coming back to these threads when you literlly know nothing about the subject matter? This is the last time Ill be responding to you to safe myself some headaches...

@Leo4444
Its surprising how many germans are blaming tripwire instead of their government. If it really was easy to get around laws all games in germany would be uncensored. Also every other country has no problem in releasing games uncensored but yeah blame tripwire.


Its surprising how many foreigners are blaming the government instead of the publishers. If it really was so hard to get around laws all games in germany would be censored. Also every other publisher has no problem in releasing games uncensored but yeah blame the government.


How do you like me now?

[Jack Corban]

Its surprising how many germans are blaming tripwire instead of their government. If it really was easy to get around laws all games in germany would be uncensored. Also every other country has no problem in releasing games uncensored but yeah blame tripwire.

The USK is a Selfcontrol Institution founded by the Development industry.

Getting a rating only insures you can sale it on shelves in stores.
You don't need that for RO 2 because it uses Steam anyway. And the Retail market for Cut games is "Dead" in Germany so why do they wanna have a rated game ? Its beyound me!

All it does is making German Customers miserable.
But hey thats ok right i mean Greed is really all that counts here
even though there will be no significant sales on retail market anyway.

So yeah we Blame Tripwire for that because its not illegal to buy unrated games in Germany you just cannot sell it on Shelves. So What is your Problem Tripwire THIS GAME USES STEAM PEOPLE WILL BUY IT ON STEAM! EVEN MORE SO IF UNCUT!

I cant believe how dumb some People are!

[bugfix]

So yeah we Blame Tripwire for that because its not illegal to buy unrated games in Germany you just cannot sell it on Shelves.

It's even better. You can still sell unrated games on the normal shelves as long as they are not indexed. And even if they're indexed, you can put them on your store shelves, just in a scetion where no minors see them.

[Koltman]

It's even better. You can still sell unrated games on the normal shelves as long as they are not indexed. And even if they're indexed, you can put them on your store shelves, just in a scetion where no minors see them.

This.

I still dont understand why they already submitted it to the USK for rating.

Its like TWI wanted to make 100% sure that no german will be able to preorder it through steam

[awesome_ninjaa]

This.

I still dont understand why they already submitted it to the USK for rating.

Its like TWI wanted to make 100% sure that no german will be able to preorder it through steam

lol German people be mad..... just ask someone from US to gift it to you gee...Big deal :rolleyes:

[Leo4444]

RO1 was censored idk why germans expected any different for RO2. Tripwire shouldnt have to work around the law, those laws should not be there in the first place but yea keep whining while everyone else enjoys the game. Ill enjoy the uncensored version while you troll about how greedy tripwire is.

[Shoelip]

Koltman. Are you a lawyer?

[bugfix]

Koltman. Are you a lawyer?

IDK about him, but I work at the Institute for Media Law at a German university :cool:

[Haarvieh]

Koltman. Are you a lawyer?

You dont need to be a lawyer to know such things. In Germany we have civil law. The laws are written and you can read them and see whats right and what not.

[beute89]

RO1 was censored idk why germans expected any different for RO2. Tripwire shouldnt have to work around the law, those laws should not be there in the first place but yea keep whining while everyone else enjoys the game. Ill enjoy the uncensored version while you troll about how greedy tripwire is.

there are no damn "laws".
do you finally get it?

there is a rating board just like the PEGI and ESRB.
Stores in america wont sell adults only rated games, they wont do it.even if it is technically allowed.

Adults only is practically the same as indexed over here in germany.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS AT HOW THESE BOARDS RATE THESE GAMES.
The USK is harsher, they go faster up to AO or in our case "indexed".

That's why devs/publishers censor their games, the government doesnt do anything, it's the publisher.
They do it so they can avoid this rating, JUST LIKE THEY DO IT IN THE US ASWELL.
there is a reason we wont see another manhunt or fully hardcore porn games...
you cant sell them on the store shelves.

The problem is, devs/publishers are too careful.. they dont even try to get the game approved, they simply overreact and dont even try to get as close to the limit as possible.

That said, the internet is free of this ♥♥♥♥, there is nothing germany can do if I decide to visit an american website, use an american pay service, to buy an american made game.

I would accept a cut version in the stores so they can fool the stupid people that buy such cut games just to be dissappointed later when they come home...

as long as they would give us the option to restore the game back to it's standards... you know, like back when there were blood patches all over the place.
What could the government possibly do to TWI?
they didnt sell an unrated game and they also didnt provide said blood patch/game fix, other websites did that dont go ♥♥♥♥♥ all over this shît...

instead said game fixes/blood patches get blocked/disabled by the developers, it's like they're aiding the USK even though they have nothing to do with it...it's none of their business If I decide to restore the game to how it is supposed to be.

Im no analyst, but I seriously doubt people really buy censored games.
Sure, kids that fall for the hype buy anything, but RO2 is surely no such title...

Censored titles, especially singleplayer games, are probably one of the big reasons why piracy is even bigger over here than in other western countries.

[Leo4444]

there are no damn "laws".
do you finally get it?

there is a rating board just like the PEGI and ESRB.
Stores in america wont sell adults only rated games, they wont do it.even if it is technically allowed.

Adults only is practically the same as indexed over here in germany.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS AT HOW THESE BOARDS RATE THESE GAMES.
The USK is harsher, they go faster up to AO or in our case "indexed".

That's why devs/publishers censor their games, the government doesnt do anything, it's the publisher.
They do it so they can avoid this rating, JUST LIKE THEY DO IT IN THE US ASWELL.
there is a reason we wont see another manhunt or fully hardcore porn games...
you cant sell them on the store shelves.

The problem is, devs/publishers are too careful.. they dont even try to get the game approved, they simply overreact and dont even try to get as close to the limit as possible.

That said, the internet is free of this ♥♥♥♥, there is nothing germany can do if I decide to visit an american website, use an american pay service, to buy an american made game.

I would accept a cut version in the stores so they can fool the stupid people that buy such cut games just to be dissappointed later when they come home...

as long as they would give us the option to restore the game back to it's standards... you know, like back when there were blood patches all over the place.
What could the government possibly do to TWI?
they didnt sell an unrated game and they also didnt provide said blood patch/game fix, other websites did that dont go ♥♥♥♥♥ all over this shît...

instead said game fixes/blood patches get blocked/disabled by the developers, it's like they're aiding the USK even though they have nothing to do with it...it's none of their business If I decide to restore the game to how it is supposed to be.

Im no analyst, but I seriously doubt people really buy censored games.
Sure, kids that fall for the hype buy anything, but RO2 is surely no such title...

Censored titles, especially singleplayer games, are probably one of the big reasons why piracy is even bigger over here than in other western countries.

So maybe germans should blame the USK for being so strict?? compared to ESRB. Some games dont even release in germany because of the USK. The only thing I agree with is that Tripwire could release a optional patch to get the uncut game.

[Koltman]

Note: following post is copied from the other thread since we strangely enough have two of them.

Tripwire just released a "faq" or better yet an official statement.
http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/faq/germany/

It seems like they wont be bringig out a unrated version, which is quite sad indeed.

But at least it brings clarity since there hasnt been an official response that brought conclusion to the whole thing in quite some time.

Needless to say my preorder is cancelled. Maybe I will get the game once I can import it for a cheaper price. Unfortunately that means that German purchasers have no way of acquiring the digital deluxe edition.

But props to TWI anyway.
Many other companies would have pulled out the marketing speak and tried to lure in as many suckers as possible with vague statements, at least now we know what we're getting.

Too bad, I was really looking forward to RO2 but It seems I'll be back to playing Darkest Hour instead


EDIT: one last question remains though, did TWI at least TRY to send in the uncut version for rating or did they brought a butchered version right away?

[StrikerSmith]

EDIT: one last question remains though, did TWI at least TRY to send in the uncut version for rating or did they brought a butchered version right away?

Good Question

And here just to qoute myself

There is a easy way to buy the game for yourself over Steam uncut for German users.

But it makes no sense that this game will be cut (because of Hakenkreuze or what?) and Gears of War 3, yes GEARS OF WAR 3 will be released in Germany UNCUT! Whats so special about this? The other GoWs weren't even allowed to sell here in Germany. They were all indexed (German Amazonlink for GoW3 http://www.amazon.de/Gears-of-War-3-uncut/dp/B005C9AVSU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312415849&sr=8-1 )

[Shoelip]

You dont need to be a lawyer to know such things. In Germany we have civil law. The laws are written and you can read them and see whats right and what not.

Yeah, in the US you're allowed to know the laws too. But you don't,because it's so much easier to just make up your own interpretations of whatever you here on the news and the internet and base your entire argument around that. I figure Tripwire has a lawyer, so you know, an American Lawyer who's specifically being asked about German laws and being paid to know about them would have a greater incentive to be right than some random highly nationalistic forum poster.

[Haarvieh]

Yeah, in the US you're allowed to know the laws too. But you don't,because it's so much easier to just make up your own interpretations of whatever you here on the news and the internet and base your entire argument around that. I figure Tripwire has a lawyer, so you know, an American Lawyer who's specifically being asked about German laws and being paid to know about them would have a greater incentive to be right than some random highly nationalistic forum poster.

What is your problem? Read about common law and civil law. There are some very big differences, specially regarding the whole interpration thing.
And was this highly nationalistic directed at me?

[Shoelip]

I was talking about Koltman and his assertion that Germany's rating system had nothing to do with the censorship of games.

[Haarvieh]

I was talking about Koltman and his assertion that Germany's insane rating system is in no way responsible for the censorship of games.

Of course it is. But indirect. They may be crazy about violence or better, violence against humans but you have to see sex is alowed. That is the problem with the US rating system. Not just sex but things like nudity dont care anybody here. So every society has its crazy stuff.
But what is not sane is that they claim to do it to protect minors agains violence. Ok, no problem but they still have ratings higher then 18. Wich is stupid because they could rate this stuff 18 and all is fine.
But I think in the last years the got better. Deadspace is uncut with 18 rating and Gears of War3 will is too so hope is there.

[Shoelip]

Just so it's clear, the German ratings system is government enforced right? As in, there is an actual real danger of legal trouble beyond some tard trying to sue you?

And sex and nudity are allowed in M rated games in the US if the game is big enough. They're just frowned upon due to our puritanical conditioning. Remember we hold up a bunch of people who fled from England to escape religious oppression so that they could be the religious oppressors instead as great heroes to tell children stories about.

[Jack Corban]

no....

[BuckarooBanzai]

^this

please devlopers release first the uncut version like it sayed here many times ,i love tripwire but i think you guys have no clue about the german laws sorry .

...pretty sure its not the developers themselves working this out. theres, believe it or not, a separate department when it comes to distribution. he's been pretty reasonable with responding to everyones concerns. so perhaps time to drop the conspiracy theory/accusations of incompetence? its not like they are going out of their way to censor their own game, for craps sake.

[Koltman]

Just so it's clear, the German ratings system is government enforced right? As in, there is an actual real danger of legal trouble beyond some tard trying to sue you?



No man.

How many times do we have to tell you?
There is no legal trouble at all, censorship has nothing to do with the government, its made by the developers/publishers

Are you a troll or something?

[BuckarooBanzai]

No man.

How many times do we have to tell you?
There is no legal trouble at all, censorship has nothing to do with the government, its made by the developers/publishers

Are you a troll or something?

so your saying developers put restrictions upon themselves so they have to go out of their way to censor their own work? makes sense. :rolleyes:

[Jack Corban]

Sounds strange but thats exactly how it is.

Of course beeing a sissy helps alot to not even try bringing the game uncut to germany.

[Koltman]

so your saying developers put restrictions upon themselves so they have to go out of their way to censor their own work? makes sense. :rolleyes:

they censor themselves so they can cram advertisements everywhere.
There is no institution that tells you what to cut or to cut anything at all, there is only a institution that rates games. Which in fact has absolutely nothing to do with the government (in fact its founded by the media industry themselves).
If you fail to get a "under 18" rating by that institution (USK).
A governmental institution for protection of minors (BPJM) puts the media on an "index" which prevents you from advertising and selling to non adults.

YOU CANT GET INTO LEGAL TROUBLE BY HAVING A GAME ON THE INDEX YOU JUST CANT SELL IT TO MINORS OR ADVERTISE IT PUBLICLY. THERE IS NO ONE FORCING YOU TO CUT ANYTHING

What part of that cant you understand? Or are you acting thick on purpose?

[BuckarooBanzai]

Sounds strange but thats exactly how it is.

Of course beeing a sissy helps alot to not even try bringing the game uncut to germany.

explain that to this german then...
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=55334
"A examples for that are the german versions of left 4 Dead 1 and 2. If a developer or publisher is refusing to cut content from the game that the usk demands to be cut the usk will eventually refuse to give the game a age rating. When this happens the game can and eventually will land on the german index of theBPjM (Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien). When this happens the game is not allowed to be sold in retail stores or be advertised in media. This also means that the game will usually not be avaible in the steam store for germany because steam has no age real age verification. The problem is that a game dont has to land on the index to face this problems. Usually every game that gets no age rating from the USK will get into this trouble."

[Koltman]

explain that to this german then...
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=55334
"A examples for that are the german versions of left 4 Dead 1 and 2. If a developer or publisher is refusing to cut content from the game that the usk demands to be cut the usk will eventually refuse to give the game a age rating. When this happens the game can and eventually will land on the german index of theBPjM (Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien). When this happens the game is not allowed to be sold in retail stores or be advertised in media. This also means that the game will usually not be avaible in the steam store for germany because steam has no age real age verification. The problem is that a game dont has to land on the index to face this problems. Usually every game that gets no age rating from the USK will get into this trouble."

What is there to explain. He explained it perfectly fine other than the fact that he claims that the USK demands something.
The USK doesnt demand anything it simply gives you a rating, if you are dissatisfied with the rating you can cut the game and reapply with another version or you can just ignore it, dont put out ads for the indexed version and only sell it to adults with age verification (how basically every online store except steam does).


Or you can just release 2 versions.

Unrated for adults and a rated one thats cut so that it can be advertised to minors and presented on a shelve.
Unfortunately tripwire only wants to release one version, the cut one.

[Shoelip]

they censor themselves so they can cram advertisements everywhere.
There is no institution that tells you what to cut or to cut anything at all, there is only a institution that rates games. Which in fact has absolutely nothing to do with the government (in fact its founded by the media industry themselves).
If you fail to get a "under 18" rating by that institution (USK).
A governmental institution for protection of minors (BPJM) puts the media on an "index" which prevents you from advertising and selling to non adults.

YOU CANT GET INTO LEGAL TROUBLE BY HAVING A GAME ON THE INDEX YOU JUST CANT SELL IT TO MINORS OR ADVERTISE IT PUBLICLY. THERE IS NO ONE FORCING YOU TO CUT ANYTHING

What part of that cant you understand? Or are you acting thick on purpose?

The part where you just kept insisting over and over that there's nothing to worry about without explaining yourself in detail was pretty difficult to understand.

In any case, if it's as you now finally explained it I can see why you'd feel that way. But this is a bit like the Schwarzenegger bill we recently recently killed that would have made it illegal to sell violent video games to minors. It's just pointless waste of time and tax money that could be spent on things that actually help people. Not only that but it sets a precedent that games are somehow worse than any other form of media. I'm curious, is it illegal to sell any other forms of media to minors in Germany?

[BuckarooBanzai]

uhh the part where it wouldnt be carried on steam without a rating is probably a concern. but whatever dude, your right. its a grand conspiracy against German gamers. enjoy your high blood pressure and calling people thick over and over.

[Koltman]

The part where you just kept insisting over and over that there's nothing to worry about without explaining yourself in detail was pretty difficult to understand.


What part of that didnt you understand? There is no legal basis for any sort of lawsuit or whatever. Unless you can give me an example of what kind of "legal trouble" you are referring to I cant do anything other than saying that there is nothing to worry about (because there isnt)


In any case, if it's as you now finally explained it I can see why you'd feel that way. But this is a bit like the Schwarzenegger bill we recently recently killed that would have made it illegal to sell violent video games to minors. It's just pointless waste of time and tax money that could be spent on things that actually help people. Not only that but it sets a precedent that games are somehow worse than any other form of media. I'm curious, is it illegal to sell any other forms of media to minors in Germany?


Of course any sort of media deemed harmful to minors can be put on the index which regulates its distribution (no public ads, no minors, no stocking on shelves visible by everyone). There is no difference wether its a book, a painting or a videogame.

And the system itself isnt even bad, its an effective way to "protect" minors. While I personally find it overprotective there isnt anything inheritly bad about the system. Its just that people who dont understand it break out into hysteria claiming stuff like "OMG THE GOVMENT IS CENSORING OUR ♥♥♥♥!" and creators of media are getting scared over being put on the index eventhough there isnt anything wrong with that.

Like the example I gave many times: Half Life 2 got sold unrated, in stores.
You can sell unrated versions as much as you like untill they get put on the index (they are always considered 18+ though).

In which case you simply produce a cut version (Which a company that cares about long term retail does either way) and get that rated and then after the original got indexed you just sell the rated version in stores. (and the indexed one somewhere else )

This makes everyone happy and there is no danger of having 2 versions at all. Valve never got sued for selling unrated HL2.
Because a.) it isnt illegal and b.) its 18+ due to it unrated nature, therefore unavailable to minors


Another thing is the "grey area" Wilson was talking about in his FAQ. This "grey area" of selling digital copies doesnt exist.
Its defined perfectly clear.
Selling indexed versions to minors = illegal = black
Selling indexed versions to adults = legal = white
It doesnt matter wether the media is digital or physical there is literlly NO DIFFERENCE.

The only grey area is that steam is currently selling 18+ and indexed games without age check (which is technically illegal since they are making it available to minors) but since no one ever complained about it, I guess you could consider it grey.

[the1stwasted]

Ok, I don't know how many times we've said this: if we go "uncut", the game can be "indexed" - then we can't sell it in Germany at all. We're quite happy to go with 18+ - but, as we understand it, USK won't even give an 18+ rating if there is dismemberment in there - but we don't know what else they won't like until it has been through a pass...

FAER 3 has dismemberment, and thats an understatment.

Look here. ALL German sites, ALL German versions, ALL PEGI 18, ALL uncut.

http://www.bu3games.de/PC-Games/FEAR-3-Limited-Collector-acute%3Bs-Edition-uncut-PC::2040.html?refID=1

http://www.amazon.de/F-R-Collectors-Uncut/dp/B004JRLPRC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312444689&sr=8-1

http://www.redcoon.de/B307517-Warner-PS3-FEAR-3-Collectors-Ed_Shooter-USK-18-Spiele?refId=idealo

This would not be an issue if you guys at TWI would release a "Limited edition" set in stores. I'm pretty sure you would sell more if you did. I want the version with all the extras, however I do not buy from STEAM, therefore I will not be getting RO2.

[Hamamtaro]

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=694727
So there were 2 versions released in ger?

[HarryRulez]

Hi guys,

someone here from the us? to gift me RO2?

[Alexxandere]

At least you guys in Germany don't have to deal with dumb politicians and the ESRB.

[Hamamtaro]

At least you guys in Germany don't have to deal with dumb politicians and the ESRB.

Not with the ESRB, but stupid politicians... yes we do.

[sneakbyte]

If anyone wants a uncut copy for $31.99 add kingsims on steam just paypal the money and I will ll gift it over. I have the original RO so I get the 20% discount and uncut copy (we have a R18+ Rating here in NZ and our government respects individual rights).

[the1stwasted]

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=694727
So there were 2 versions released in ger?

Yes. On most if not all German game sites you have to send a copy of your Reisepass or your personalausweis to the company, then they register your account as an 18+ account allowing you to purchase the software, the also do this for things like Softairs.

[Koltman]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/91700/
Eye Divine Cybermancy

Unrated Indie Game, features dismemberment out the wazoo, made by french company, sold in the german steam store without age verification.

Just wanted to throw that in there

[10sigh]

I dont really care about dismembering. But I like my movies/games/series directors cut as they are superior in any way.

I dont want:
>> "Did you see that?!"
>> "NO I DIDNT!!!!!! :sadface:"

I want internet emancipation, countries dont exist, they never did and who cares anyway.

PS: "I'm a not a number. I'AM A FREE MAN!"

[Koltman]

I dont really care about dismembering. But I like my movies/games/series directors cut as they are superior in any way.


I agree completly.

The dismemberment part was just there because TWI said that they will definetly cut that out. It was just to show that its perfectly possible and legal for a indie company to release a unrated game that features dismemberement on the german market. Although there should be an age check in place to be 100% proper.

And if a french company ( part of the EU) can do it an North American company should be able to do it as well.

[Atelophobia]

Why is there no "low violence" note on the RO 1 steam page?

[Hamamtaro]

Why is there no "low violence" note on the RO 1 steam page?

There isn't?
But it certainly is the low violence version they sell.

[Atelophobia]

There isn't?
But it certainly is the low violence version they sell.

I know... I have the cut version. I also have KF but I bought it before there was a cut version (although KF was already out some months) and it is still uncut.

On the RO1 page I only the orange notice:
"Notice: Darkest Hour, a new Red Orchestra mod is now available."

but not the notice about low violence. Perhaps it's because I already have it but it could be a different "cencorship" mechanism.

[Jack Corban]

I herby revoke all my previous statments regarding this problem. I had a little chat with Wilsonam and now i understand what problems they face with this.

I still think an cut game isn't worth buying but thats not Tripwires fault anymore.

Jack Corban

[Koltman]

I herby revoke all my previous statments regarding this problem. I had a little chat with Wilsonam and now i understand what problems they face with this.

I still think an cut game isn't worth buying but thats not Tripwires fault anymore.

Jack Corban

Really? Can you elaborate on these problems because I still dont understand them.

And I am still terribly dissapointed in TWI that they managed to cooperate with Valve for a gimmicky ARG but they still havent managed to cooperate with Valve in order to implement a simple age verification system, eventhough this Problem of screwing over an entire Nation is haunting them since they first released ROOST.
And they got plenty of feedback about this over the years so that cant be the reason.

[the1stwasted]

http://www.publicproxyservers.com/

[Wilsonam]

Really? Can you elaborate on these problems because I still dont understand them.

It is a long, tedious and sordid tale - maybe one day :)