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Miss Soda
08-02-2011, 03:44 PM
I live in Australia, and when I look at the Steam store page for Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad it says "Low Violence: Low Violence Version".

Is the game censored for Australia? If so, why?

hat
08-02-2011, 03:50 PM
It seems likely, because that is the same message that appears for Left 4 Dead 2. As with L4D2, I imagine it has something to do with there being a distinct lack of an R18 rating, and perhaps the publishers wanted to avoid a similar fiasco (or maybe there already was one?). Regardless, I will have to get one of my offshore friends to gift me the game. Depends where it's cheapest—probably the US.

Miss Soda
08-02-2011, 03:54 PM
It seems likely, because that is the same message that appears for Left 4 Dead 2.

I checked the Board of Classification website, but I couldn't find any reference to Red Orchestra 2, and the only game listed from Tripwire was Killing Floor. Surely this game can't be any worse than Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and all the other WW2 shooters... :(

hat
08-02-2011, 04:02 PM
I checked the Board of Classification website, but I couldn't find any reference to Red Orchestra 2, and the only game listed from Tripwire was Killing Floor. Surely this game can't be any worse than Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and all the other WW2 shooters... :(
I suppose it could be an error, rather than a preemptive censorship. I wasn't able to find anything either, but really, I don't have my hopes up. Unless we could get some official word on the situation? Tripwire staff, if you're out there ...?

RaptorBlackz
08-02-2011, 04:27 PM
This just stopped me from pre-ordering due to low violence.

QuattroBajeena
08-02-2011, 04:29 PM
I checked the Board of Classification website, but I couldn't find any reference to Red Orchestra 2, and the only game listed from Tripwire was Killing Floor. Surely this game can't be any worse than Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and all the other WW2 shooters... :(

Blowing someone's leg off is pretty violent. Definitely a lot more than MoH

BuckarooBanzai
08-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Surely this game can't be any worse than Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and all the other WW2 shooters... :(

lol actually the gib system is a nice step up from those games.


http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=55274
here you will find the answers you seek.
"Our understanding is that you will be issued a different license depending one where you buy the game (by IP address). Basically, if the game is sold to someone we know is in Germany, we/Steam need to abide by USK's rules. If you live (IP) outside Germany, we/Steam will sell you a non-German/USK version."

just replace germany with australia.

Scared
08-02-2011, 04:38 PM
Looks like I'm going to be putting in a support ticket to get this refunded right.....now.

Wilsonam
08-02-2011, 04:38 PM
We've put "LV" up for Australia because we haven't got the rating back yet - and dear old Oz has just announced the new higher rating category. We are HOPING that they will take the same view as PEGI/BBFC and NOT go all silly on us. However, until we're sure, we putting LV up to be safe. The Okkers may want to wait a few days and see what the end result is - but we'd hate for you to buy it and THEN find your ratings board can't cope with dismemberment (like USK...).

Scared
08-02-2011, 04:46 PM
We've put "LV" up for Australia because we haven't got the rating back yet

How long do you expect before you get the rating back? Would you recommend those that have ordered to wait a bit before mashing the refund button?

The Okkers may want to wait a few days

The who?

Aetius
08-02-2011, 04:48 PM
I sure hope they don't enforce the low violence version! I don't want to go through the hassle of cancelling my pre-order and getting someone else to buy it for me.

darksuplex
08-02-2011, 04:50 PM
This just stopped me from pre-ordering due to low violence.

I'm with you. I'm not a gore junkie... but I just hate the idea of missing something.

I'll keep checking back to see if it gets through the ratings board. Until then, I don't think I'll be buying it. Sorry Tripwire :(

HAO
08-02-2011, 05:01 PM
This all stems from the phony Port Arthur incident. Oz government is truly one of the worst on earth. Who knew one mentally handicapped man could change an entire country... for the worse.

Aetius
08-02-2011, 05:05 PM
I was just reading the German cut or uncut thread and someone mentioned that TW were required to cut KF but players were still able to 'mod' the game, unlocking the uncut version.

Will TW make this same 'mistake' with their cut version :)?

jtm33
08-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Just wait guys, it has not been rated here yet. They are just putting that notice up as a caution.

phillip_binns
08-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Im pretty optimistic about this, World at War was as violent as this and it passed classification, so heres hoping :D

aforumtotalkon1
08-02-2011, 06:10 PM
Okay, I won't buy it until the classification is made. Also, if it is officially censored, then I'll wait till R18+ goes through (which it actually will now, given the results of the latest meeting) sometime later this year, and hope Tripwire resubmit the game for reclassification.

Wilsonam
08-02-2011, 06:36 PM
Update on this one: I've just been told by someone in the industry in Oz that the new 18 rating will NOT be "operational" until later this year. This implies that we'll have to accept the cuts to get the 15+ rating - or no release in Oz.

Watch this space for further (joyous) updates...

ZimbuTheMonkey
08-02-2011, 06:40 PM
If you guys want the non-castrated version, you can have someone gift you the game from countries that haven't adopted such stupid policies.

That's a way you can circumvent around the low-violence editions of games.

Spathy
08-02-2011, 06:50 PM
I was one of the people hyping up this game. A Low violence version is a dealbreaker for me and i wont buy it unless it becomes uncensored. If it gets an MA15+ rating and stays uncensored at MA15+ then good, if not, no buy.

I am against censorship and i cannot buy it. I dont want a gimped product.

Miss Soda
08-02-2011, 07:13 PM
We've put "LV" up for Australia because we haven't got the rating back yet...
Thanks for the super-fast reply! That's awesome. :D

It's really horrible if the game does get censored for us Australians. It's not fair for anyone... not for us or Tripwire. :mad:

The Okkers...
Just a friendly point, but please don't call us ockers. That's like if we called all people from the US 'red-necks'. Some people are probably cool with it, but it makes me a tad uncomfortable to be labeled as a stereotype.

Scared
08-02-2011, 07:28 PM
This implies that we'll have to accept the cuts to get the 15+ rating - or no release in Oz.

Watch this space for further (joyous) updates...

That's assuming the game is Refused Classification the first time right?

Majorfoley
08-02-2011, 07:39 PM
We've put "LV" up for Australia because we haven't got the rating back yet - and dear old Oz has just announced the new higher rating category. We are HOPING that they will take the same view as PEGI/BBFC and NOT go all silly on us. However, until we're sure, we putting LV up to be safe. The Okkers may want to wait a few days and see what the end result is - but we'd hate for you to buy it and THEN find your ratings board can't cope with dismemberment (like USK...).

ok its there just in case it wont pass right? As far as i know they only reached a decision about allowing R 18+ ratings for games only about a week ago (maybe 2). does this mean if this game doesnt pass it will be resubmitted? when its finallyed written?

Nebslox
08-02-2011, 07:42 PM
Does anyone know if any of the old bypassing tricks still work? (having a US resident gift you their version, I heard something about games updating and censoring based on IP address now? ).

I just tried to pre-order from the UK store (which worked for L4D2), but that seems to have been fixed.

Pc_Madness
08-02-2011, 08:08 PM
That's assuming the game is Refused Classification the first time right?

Correct. It seems likely however if there's dismemberment. The reason for L4D2 being refused classification was because they felt the way that the human zombies being blown to pieces when you shot them was excessive. So if they'd been alien zombies, it would have been ok. :p

Hard to say if limbs being blown off is "excessive"... I'm sure I've seen plenty of games with it. :\

I guess I shan't be preordering this after all. :(

Also you need to be aware that some games on Steam censor based on where you are when you use the game, not where you bought it... I forget which game does it.. was it RO1?

Amunkeeman
08-02-2011, 08:10 PM
Update on this one: I've just been told by someone in the industry in Oz that the new 18 rating will NOT be "operational" until later this year. This implies that we'll have to accept the cuts to get the 15+ rating - or no release in Oz.

Watch this space for further (joyous) updates...

Sounds strange.

One would assume that 'cuts' would be made if the classification board had RC'd the vanilla version...

From what I understand, that when activating a code, it is then based upon your IP address? Which would mean that purchasing overseas to get an uncut version wouldn't work?

matthudson
08-02-2011, 08:20 PM
Correct. It seems likely however if there's dismemberment. The reason for L4D2 being refused classification was because they felt the way that the human zombies being blown to pieces when you shot them was excessive. So if they'd been alien zombies, it would have been ok. :p
I actually thought it was due to the addition of the riot cop zombie. Violence against authority or something like that...

Camerooni
08-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Just a note - until it's been rated you can't sell it anyway in Australia..

But since you're selling a product from a US store, with US prices, and it's an import.. the whole issue of rating shouldn't come into it anyway yeah? I've never understood that. You could just not have it rated at all in Australia.. That means it has never been Refused Classification and hence not illegal for people to import - which they're technically doing in a purchase via steam. And since your store is not located in Australia, no money is going through an Australian company (at all.. no local publisher, no local distributor, no local offices at all), and no tax is going to the Australian government, then the whole Steam experience is an import right? (This is an issue with Steam though.. They also shouldn't be price-fixing their games to satisfy the publishers and retailers to match with local prices and should be allowing Australians access to the US version of the store due to our FTA).

It's a PC only game yeah? And PC only games aren't stocked in retail stores in Australia (unless you are the Sims of Wow) because the stores are crap, so unless there is a console version why are you rating it locally - surely that is an unnecessary extra expense if there are no plans to sell at retail in Australia?

Scared
08-02-2011, 08:24 PM
I actually thought it was due to the addition of the riot cop zombie. Violence against authority or something like that...

The fact you were killing innocent humans (They were only sick, infected with rabies, not zombies) was the main reason I believe.

Camerooni
08-02-2011, 08:24 PM
I actually thought it was due to the addition of the riot cop zombie. Violence against authority or something like that...

Yeah because all incarnations of GTA have been banned :p

Headcrab_Zer0
08-02-2011, 08:53 PM
If you're precensoring before initial classification then I can't support that and thus won't be buying it.

RedBrigade
08-02-2011, 09:22 PM
So if we buy/pre-order a censored version in Australia and by some strange miracle the nanny-state decides at a later date that we can have dismemberment, would we be stuck with the low violence version?

fobbs25
08-02-2011, 09:31 PM
Couldnt it get an MA rating here and not be censored, or is it an obvious R rating?

Mattressi
08-02-2011, 09:39 PM
-Snip-

I've got to agree with this. Last I checked, you'd only need to get the game classified if you were planning on selling it in Aussie brick and mortar stores and/or digital stores based in Australia (though I'm pretty sure that none exist). Since Steam is based in the US and we're purchasing in USD, it counts as an individual import when purchased on Steam and therefore does no need to be classified. However, if you want to sell it through Aus retail, get it rated and it gets rejected, we can not even individually import it.

I'd highly recommend that you make the game available only from digital retail stores, so that you don't end up having to censor the game. I'd imagine that the 3 or 4 stores in Australia that would actually stock it (honestly, most of the games stores in my area don't even have a PC section, while the rest have a PC section which has only the Sims games and educational crap) wouldn't move much stock anyway and would not even come close to making up for the lack of sales of the censored version.

If it is censored, could you at least do it tastefully. L4D2 was absolutely horrible, with disappearing zombies and no blood. You don't need to remove it all just because they've said "blowing someone's brains out and then using those brains to tan the person's skin is excessively violent" - you can still keep blood and death animations. Please :(

adz
08-02-2011, 09:40 PM
how long do we have to wait? because i am planning on buying this for the KF DLC's, and also the game. been looking forward to this for ages.

bob_loblaw
08-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Low Violence: Low Violence Version

broke my heart, wont be buying

BuckarooBanzai
08-02-2011, 09:47 PM
Couldnt it get an MA rating here and not be censored, or is it an obvious R rating?

the president of tripwire said there was a new tier added to the Australian rating system, made it sound like they added it so not as many games get ♥♥♥♥♥ by their ratings, and he has no idea how its going to go.

Scared
08-02-2011, 09:49 PM
the president of tripwire said there was a new tier added to the Australian rating system, made it sound like they added it so not as many games get ♥♥♥♥♥ by their ratings, and he has no idea how its going to go.

We (Australia) will be getting an R18+ rating for video games 'in the coming months'. Only games that are being released in November/December (guess) will likely be able to get an R18+ rating this year and anything before then will still be limited to MA15+ maximum.

aforumtotalkon1
08-02-2011, 09:50 PM
It's pretty straight forward.

Currently, the classification is exactly the same as it always has been here.

Later this year, R18+ will be introduced, allowing games with a higher level of violence in.

RO will be classified according to current guidelines, and can only get a maximum rating of MA15+

lt bob
08-02-2011, 10:07 PM
The who?

I think he ment "ockers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocker

adz
08-02-2011, 10:09 PM
how long do these classifications take? few days?

lt bob
08-02-2011, 10:13 PM
how much is it on the US steam store?

oi u agree
08-02-2011, 10:20 PM
Some people are just stupid.

"Herp my government won't allow this level of violence so I'm gonna blame the game developers for adding a Low Violence version"

How does this make ANY sense? Think about it for a second. The above statement makes NO sense whatsoever.

Scared
08-02-2011, 10:28 PM
how much is it on the US steam store?

Same price as the AU store.

EnterHavoc
08-02-2011, 10:48 PM
I'd really love some clarification on whether we can get our overseas buddies to gift us an uncensored copy or whether its where you activate it. Even if the review board doesn't screw us over, it's still handy to know.

loinbread
08-02-2011, 10:50 PM
Update on this one: I've just been told by someone in the industry in Oz that the new 18 rating will NOT be "operational" until later this year. This implies that we'll have to accept the cuts to get the 15+ rating - or no release in Oz.

Watch this space for further (joyous) updates...

Thanks for your response. Can you confirm what has been cut? When it came to L4D2, we experienced very extreme cuts to gore - it wasn't just dismemberment that was removed, but in fact much of the blood sprays and persistent corpses that had already been present and accepted in the original L4D. Does the LV version just cut dismemberment or does it also remove other violent elements?

Miss Soda
08-02-2011, 11:38 PM
Some people are just stupid.

"Herp my government won't allow this level of violence so I'm gonna blame the game developers for adding a Low Violence version"

How does this make ANY sense? Think about it for a second. The above statement makes NO sense whatsoever.

Some people are blaming the companies involved as they are 100% based in the US and thus have no obligation to obey Australian classification system. (To the best of my knowledge, The Australian classification system only applies to vendors on Australian soil.)

Some people are blaming the companies involved because it's not totally clear if they've even tried to get the full version classified. (If Dead Island got through okay, then surely this game stands a chance too.)

Some people, like myself and my boyfriend, are quite disappointed for ourselves, and for Tripwire. We all know it's not their fault, but on the other hand, we're not going to pay for a crippled product. It's not blaming Tripwire, it's just a desire to get the whole product, and not just nine-tenths of it.

It's our money, and we'll spend it how we please. If the special effects are not a big deal to you, then why don't you contact Steam or Tripwire and demand they sell you a copy of the low violence version?

Sensator
08-03-2011, 12:21 AM
Sad to see this happening, although I hope the Australian govt. comes through for once. I'm not preordering either way, however--and if we do get an inferior product to the rest of the world, I'll just VPN and get a better copy.

hat
08-03-2011, 12:31 AM
Just to add, it is possible for developers to uncensor games later on down the road. Take, for example, how my Australian version of L4D2 was "mysteriously" uncensored one day. It is possible.

.:M4dn3ss:.
08-03-2011, 12:35 AM
I want my violence :(
Maybe I'll use a proxy to make it appear like I'm buying from the US hehehe

Desi
08-03-2011, 12:46 AM
I want my violence :(
Maybe I'll use a proxy to make it appear like I'm buying from the US hehehe
I wonder how the thing works. Is your region's version attributed to your account upon payment, or do you have to download the entire thing through a VPN, if Steam serves up the region-specific version upon download?

Hells High
08-03-2011, 12:57 AM
I feel sorry for the German and Aussie gamers. Wheres the freedom of media? In Germany its just because they are trying to make up for the mistakes and actions of some stupid people in the past. But whats the dealio in Australia?

Desi
08-03-2011, 01:01 AM
I feel sorry for the German and Aussie gamers. Wheres the freedom of media? In Germany its just because they are trying to make up for the mistakes and actions of some stupid people in the past. But whats the dealio in Australia?

They're trying to preempt the mistakes and actions of stupid people in the future, I suppose. :rolleyes:

Mattressi
08-03-2011, 01:05 AM
But whats the dealio in Australia?

Australia is a nanny state and its citizens care little when their rights are infringed upon. We have a bunch of morons in government (and have since...well...we were started, really) and fairly similar voters. Voters want the government to "take care" of them, the government obliges by infringing on the public's rights.

Let's see if I get yelled at by my fellow Aussies for saying this, again :D

Desi
08-03-2011, 01:10 AM
Australia is a nanny state and its citizens care little when their rights are infringed upon. We have a bunch of morons in government (and have since...well...we were started, really) and fairly similar voters. Voters want the government to "take care" of them, the government obliges by infringing on the public's rights.

Let's see if I get yelled at by my fellow Aussies for saying this, again :D

Why would we yell at you? It's a pretty accurate summary of the situation here.

Australian politicians are reactionary, and the Australian hoi polloi love public knee-jerk reactions. Also, both camps seem to love absurdist comedy. Why else would the Australian Government apply a carbon tax to help solve global warming, while simultaneously removing the subsidy they offered to households for installing solar panels?

millionmice
08-03-2011, 01:15 AM
I actually thought it was due to the addition of the riot cop zombie. Violence against authority or something like that...

That didn't make it an R18+ game in the eyes of the Australian classification board. I think its just a copy of the german version which excludes it.

Australia is a nanny state and its citizens care little when their rights are infringed upon. We have a bunch of morons in government (and have since...well...we were started, really) and fairly similar voters. Voters want the government to "take care" of them, the government obliges by infringing on the public's rights.

The issue was being blocked by one person (Delayed by a different one this time but thats just political point scoring). The system to have every state attorney agree was flawed. We're getting the rating now and almost all pollies support it. It was a matter of not having the rating in the first place not it being removed due to censorship issues. Getting one was just blocked by a single man. The censorship board doesn't have very strict rules in fact many games got passed with MA15+ instead of the R18+ rating in other countries.

The only issue was the lack of an R18+ rating, we're now getting one...hopefully when they suggest. I am yelling at you and thus my arguement is nullified Matt you win :(

Mattressi
08-03-2011, 01:15 AM
Why else would the Australian Government apply a carbon tax to help solve global warming, while simultaneously removing the subsidy they offered to households for installing solar panels?

Haha, yeah, I have to admit, I was also a bit miffed when they announced that almost no individuals would be truly affected by the tax and that most of the large polluter corporations wouldn't be taxed either :confused:

...though, I think I'm getting a bit off topic here.

So yes, on topic...er...I really like Red Orchestra *checks thread title* and I dislike censorship...that'll do.

Edit:I am yelling at you and thus my arguement is nullified Matt you win :(

You need to put in some exclamation marks and all caps words; otherwise it's just not yelling :D

I know what you're saying though. But, I mean, you can't even legally swear in Victoria any more. It's not just game censorship that brings me to my conclusion.

oPatJRo
08-03-2011, 01:25 AM
This is a positive way of thinking, when u play MP and thank to low violence (might remove ragdoll maybe) enemy can no longer prone in their dead hoping us not to see em cos there is no ragdoll!! We have the advantage!!

adz
08-03-2011, 01:43 AM
I rkn this game will make it threw the MA15+, because Dead island did and that's more gore than this no?

But i wanna know why is it taking so long to get a rating?

poo
08-03-2011, 01:46 AM
No sale for me until I get full violence.
I am an adult and if I want to see some german get his leg blown off I damn in a video game I damn well should be able to.

TrenchFeeder
08-03-2011, 01:47 AM
I live in Australia, and when I look at the Steam store page for Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad it says "Low Violence: Low Violence Version".

Is the game censored for Australia? If so, why?

It shouldn't be

I read Australia just passed a law to allow higher rated games into the country uncensored.

Start writing letters to your member of parliment or whatever you have

poo
08-03-2011, 02:07 AM
It shouldn't be

I read Australia just passed a law to allow higher rated games into the country uncensored.

Start writing letters to your member of parliment or whatever you have

you obviously havnt read throguh the thread

Hovercat
08-03-2011, 02:13 AM
don't worry Aussies there is always some one who makes a program that lets us play online with gore look at left 4 dead 2 now just hope we don't get vac banned for using it lol

MeestaNob!
08-03-2011, 02:33 AM
We've put "LV" up for Australia because we haven't got the rating back yet - and dear old Oz has just announced the new higher rating category. We are HOPING that they will take the same view as PEGI/BBFC and NOT go all silly on us. However, until we're sure, we putting LV up to be safe. The Okkers may want to wait a few days and see what the end result is - but we'd hate for you to buy it and THEN find your ratings board can't cope with dismemberment (like USK...).

I think you should just take the pre-order down for us Aussies until you know, to be honest, otherwise put a more detailed explanation on the games page in the orange box.

DarkMellie
08-03-2011, 02:34 AM
but we'd hate for you to buy it and THEN find your ratings board can't cope with dismemberment (like USK...).

Cheers mate, that's perfectly reasonable of you.

I've bought it anyway (just now in fact) because I expect the game to be frikkin' awesome even if you have to munter our version.

:)

Hamamtaro
08-03-2011, 03:35 AM
Wlecome to the german/australian party, miss soda :)

Hades_9966
08-03-2011, 03:50 AM
Questions:

What has been removed in the LV version. Will it be like l4d2 where bodies disappear before hitting the ground or will they just lower the blood amount and remove gibs?

If i buy the LV version and the 18+ rating comes in later will the game be re rated/ patched to it's original version?

If someone gifted me an uncut version will it stay uncut and do i still receive the pre-purchase content, deluxe edition stuff too or does the purchaser only receive that?

Would there be any problems with people playing cut and uncut versions together?

Been waiting to purchase this game for a while now until i saw the low violence tag which has delayed me buying the game until things get answered.

Would much appreciate any answers TWI can give.

Thanks in advance.

Jigoku
08-03-2011, 04:01 AM
Are Tripwire intending to release this at retail? The original RO has never been classified in Australia yet has been sold to Australian customers via Steam since it was released. Killing Floor was sold without being classified from the time of Steam release up until when the retail product was published ...

adz
08-03-2011, 04:30 AM
Questions:

What has been removed in the LV version. Will it be like l4d2 where bodies disappear before hitting the ground or will they just lower the blood amount and remove gibs?

If i buy the LV version and the 18+ rating comes in later will the game be re rated/ patched to it's original version?

If someone gifted me an uncut version will it stay uncut and do i still receive the pre-purchase content, deluxe edition stuff too or does the purchaser only receive that?

Would there be any problems with people playing cut and uncut versions together?

Been waiting to purchase this game for a while now until i saw the low violence tag which has delayed me buying the game until things get answered.

Would much appreciate any answers TWI can give.

Thanks in advance.


don;t buy it yet, wait until it gets a rating of MA15+ uncut.

Wilsonam
08-03-2011, 05:18 AM
It's pretty straight forward.

Currently, the classification is exactly the same as it always has been here.

Later this year, R18+ will be introduced, allowing games with a higher level of violence in.

RO will be classified according to current guidelines, and can only get a maximum rating of MA15+

Absolutely correct. Right now, we are stuck with a maximum rating of 15+.

I'd really love some clarification on whether we can get our overseas buddies to gift us an uncensored copy or whether its where you activate it. Even if the review board doesn't screw us over, it's still handy to know.

As stated in the equivalent German thread: the license you are issued depends on where you BUY the game, not where you install it. Buying it outside Australia (i.e. UK) will get you that (uncut) version.

Are Tripwire intending to release this at retail? The original RO has never been classified in Australia yet has been sold to Australian customers via Steam since it was released. Killing Floor was sold without being classified from the time of Steam release up until when the retail product was published ...

Yes, it has a retail release in Australia.

For those who see "LV" as a deal-breaker - the only change we are pretty sure about is that we'll have to drop dismemberment. If watching someone lose an arm to a grenade matters that much - get a friend outside Oz to buy and gift it to you.

[And for those offended by "Ocker" - my apologies. I had always just thought it was some old-fashioned term for Aussie.]

adz
08-03-2011, 05:27 AM
could you let us know if its going to be uncut for AUS?

Headcrab_Zer0
08-03-2011, 05:29 AM
They only know as much as we do adz.

Rattenkrieg
08-03-2011, 05:44 AM
Absolutely correct. Right now, we are stuck with a maximum rating of 15+.



As stated in the equivalent German thread: the license you are issued depends on where you BUY the game, not where you install it. Buying it outside Australia (i.e. UK) will get you that (uncut) version.



Yes, it has a retail release in Australia.

For those who see "LV" as a deal-breaker - the only change we are pretty sure about is that we'll have to drop dismemberment. If watching someone lose an arm to a grenade matters that much - get a friend outside Oz to buy and gift it to you.

[And for those offended by "Ocker" - my apologies. I had always just thought it was some old-fashioned term for Aussie.]
Cheers for the clarification Wilson, also thanks TWI for not screweing over Aussies with an artificially inflated price like everyone else does. Not only is it refreshing but I hugely respect it as well.

LV for me is a deal breaker as it ruins immersion, some of my most memorable things in Ost were related to this. Like throwing a grenade up into the second story of one of the towers on Kaukus to kill an enemy and seeing his severed arm bouncing down the stairs.

I'll order a boxed version from the UK I think!

Also don't worry about the okker thing, it's an easy mistake for one of you chavs to make :p

Jigoku
08-03-2011, 05:50 AM
What makes you think the dismemberment will make it RC? CoD:WaW is MA15+ and has it. Context is usually taken into account with classification.

the_mitch28
08-03-2011, 05:53 AM
For those who see "LV" as a deal-breaker - the only change we are pretty sure about is that we'll have to drop dismemberment. If watching someone lose an arm to a grenade matters that much - get a friend outside Oz to buy and gift it to you.


If we do get the LV version can you at least make it not hard to mod back in :P

...since you guys can't be held accountable for what modders do ;)

Rossa_AU
08-03-2011, 06:11 AM
It shouldn't be

I read Australia just passed a law to allow higher rated games into the country uncensored.

Start writing letters to your member of parliment or whatever you have

The law hasn't actually been passed yet, we are still waiting on 1 state to agree to it. Either way it wont come into effect until late this year/early next year anyway.

What makes you think the dismemberment will make it RC? CoD:WaW is MA15+ and has it. Context is usually taken into account with classification.

Also Gears of War 3 got MA15+.....so if gears got in, that gives this hope. That is unless Epic Games just showed the non-human kills to get around it, but i doubt it lol.

EDIT: I would also just like to say THANK YOU to Tripwire Interactive for not giving into Aussie region pricing and giving us the same price as the US :D

Pc_Madness
08-03-2011, 06:24 AM
Also Gears of War 3 got MA15+

I don't think Gears of War is a good example. While you can certainly chainsaw humans to death, its going to be done by a monster, so theres not really any concern over someone mistaking the game with reality. :p

Rossa_AU
08-03-2011, 06:29 AM
I don't think Gears of War is a good example. While you can certainly chainsaw humans to death, its going to be done by a monster, so theres not really any concern over someone mistaking the game with reality. :p

The concern i am more thinking of is the executions that can be done on humans like ripping the guys arm off and beating him to death with it. Done by a monster or not, that's not exactly a good thing to let the kids see lol.

But in a sense, yes you are right that it's not the same when a monster/alien does it against a human.

Flanker15
08-03-2011, 06:42 AM
Gears of War aside, I've got a bajillion games more violent than HoS sitting around. I forsee no issue getting it classified.
2 things though, if the planets align and the game can't get classified so I have to go buy from somewhere else.
Is the game the same steamID so people with the lv edition can play with the normal edition or is it annoying like L4D2?
If you pre-order the game now with the lv version then it get's classified and changed back are you still stuck with the lv version?

RedBrigade
08-03-2011, 08:00 AM
[And for those offended by "Ocker" - my apologies. I had always just thought it was some old-fashioned term for Aussie.]

I'm not sure anyone was offended by that. Probably the person genuinely didn't know what it meant, especially if they were born after 1990.

Mist69
08-03-2011, 08:18 AM
I'm also hoping it gets though the ratings board, good luck

StaunchGamers
08-03-2011, 08:19 AM
To all Australians & Germans:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=de (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=de) Gewaltgemindert: Gewaltgeminderte Version
http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=au (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35450/?cc=au) Low Violence: Low Violence Version

So you 100% get the CENSORED/CUT versions.

If you want to get the UNCUT/UNCESORED version of this or ANY other game from the Steam Store, just use a foreign friend who to send you the game as "UNCUT" "Gifted" Copy using Steam, so easy!

If someone is interested, PM me for more info.

I hope that I help to all guys from "cut" countries with this msg.

Thanks.
This.

SumoSniper
08-03-2011, 10:28 AM
Hey, Western Australian here, just wanting to clear some misconceptions people are having here:

The R18+ rating is supposed to be coming yes, but the actual timeline is fuzzy; individual jurisdictions now need to agree to the guidelines, and NSW is still SOL, as they are still blocking, but it's only going to affect them until the results of some-or-other study. Also, the R18+ rating really just moves up the M15+ rating as it sits currently. There is no guarantee that they will deem, in their infinite wisdom, very violent content as appropriate for adults either, just like they recommended that female ejaculation and small boobs are also obscene. In fact it's been said as much that "extreme violence" will still be Refused Classification. As long as we don't kick up much of a fuss about this, they might not notice, basically, and still pass it as M15+.

A lot of people have also been wondering why Tripwire can't just offer the normal version online for Australians regardless. There are two reasons as far as I'm aware:

One is that in places like WA and NT, RC content is not only not allowed to be sold, but actually illegal to own at all. Are you a WA/NT resident with the uncut version of L4D2? Technically you are a criminal simply for owning it.

The other reason is that the idea of purchasing things over international borders is legally confusing. There are some laws that still apply, wherever they can be enforced, and legally speaking a supplier of illegal content coming into the country can be prosecuted by the government internationally. Even the individual can be punished. If you, say, bought totally legal child porn overseas, and didn't even bring it back with you coming to Australia, you could still be charged here. Similarly, when you buy expensive things in other countries, customs demands you pay tax as if you bought it locally "to protect local suppliers". These situations may be quite different from this one, but if there's one thing the government does quickly, it's react to people breaking the law by having fun. Steam doesn't want that kind of expensive legal crap so they won't take the risk.

Finally one more thing people are saying is "mod it back in". Have we all forgotten GTA:SA's Hot Coffee mod that quickly? That was simply a mod that unlocked an unused portion of game code. It resulted in the game being reclassified everyone and was pretty much single-handedly responsible for Steam taking forever to give Australia the GTA series at all. If the content is in the game and can be unlocked (and the board knows about it), then the classification board takes that into account because they don't want to appear the technologically illiterate fools they are.

I hate the fact that we have a country run by Victorian-minded old codgers as much as anyone, but I cannot blame either Steam or Tripwire for wanting to avoid legal mishaps. I will, out of principle, and with respect to the companies, not buy the game until there is an uncut version available (or I can find someone to gift it to me from the States, because f*** da po-lice). But I didn't want to sit by idly while some people got upset at them for doing things they shouldn't do to maintain credibility.

jobie1knobie
08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
I live in Australia, and when I look at the Steam store page for Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad it says "Low Violence: Low Violence Version".

Is the game censored for Australia? If so, why?

Because you live in a nanny state that controls what it's population consumes. Australia wants you to think of butterflies and rainbows.....and wants to you save the whales with that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ bag Paul Watson.

Scared
08-03-2011, 04:25 PM
Also, the R18+ rating really just moves up the M15+ rating as it sits currently.

MA15+ is still going to exist. It is only South Australia that are considering putting an R18+ sticker on every MA15+ game.

Miss Soda
08-03-2011, 04:59 PM
The other reason is that the idea of purchasing things over international borders is legally confusing. There are some laws that still apply, wherever they can be enforced, and legally speaking a supplier of illegal content coming into the country can be prosecuted by the government internationally.
Outside of WA/NT, what content in violent video games is actually illegal to possess?

Aetius
08-03-2011, 05:00 PM
Guys don't cancel your pre-orders yet! It hasn't even been classified. TW just put up low violence as a precaution. As others have said, much more horrific games such as Dead Island and Gears of War have passed for MA classification. Plus we have until the game is released to cancel pre-orders so there is no rush to do so immediately especially when we still don't know if the game has even been refused classification.

adz
08-03-2011, 05:29 PM
Guys don't cancel your pre-orders yet! It hasn't even been classified. TW just put up low violence as a precaution. As others have said, much more horrific games such as Dead Island and Gears of War have passed for MA classification. Plus we have until the game is released to cancel pre-orders so there is no rush to do so immediately especially when we still don't know if the game has even been refused classification.

source for classification?

SparkTR
08-03-2011, 05:30 PM
source for classification?
Here.
(http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24076736&postcount=9)

Defrost My Head
08-03-2011, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by StaunchGamers
If you want to get the UNCUT/UNCESORED version of this or ANY other game from the Steam Store, just use a foreign friend who to send you the game as "UNCUT" "Gifted" Copy using Steam, so easy!

If someone is interested, PM me for more info.

I hope that I help to all guys from "cut" countries with this msg.

FYI The NZ version has no sign of "Low Violence" version.

adz
08-03-2011, 07:24 PM
Here.
(http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24076736&postcount=9)

ahh i read that, i am going to wait a week i hope thats how long it will take, after that i might have to give it a miss for this game, i will refuse to buy censored games.

Damn i was looking forward to this game also.

AusKeg
08-03-2011, 07:30 PM
Am on the fence about this one...really want it but don't want another crappy low violence version...meh come on Australia sort your ♥♥♥♥ out

Rossa_AU
08-03-2011, 08:24 PM
ahh i read that, i am going to wait a week i hope thats how long it will take, after that i might have to give it a miss for this game, i will refuse to buy censored games.

Damn i was looking forward to this game also.

Just keep an eye on here (http://www.classification.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/ClassificationsByDate?OpenView) to see when it gets classified.

Hopefully we will have an answer in a couple of days :)

BuckarooBanzai
08-03-2011, 08:29 PM
Just keep an eye on here (http://www.classification.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/ClassificationsByDate?OpenView) to see when it gets classified.

Hopefully we will have an answer in a couple of days :)

How am I supposed to look for red orchestra with so many distractions on that list? such as
BLACK ♥♥♥♥♥ TINY TEENS 8

Headcrab_Zer0
08-03-2011, 08:31 PM
How am I supposed to look for red orchestra with so many distractions on that list? such as
BLACK ♥♥♥♥♥ TINY TEENS 8
It's a feed of the latest classification decisions. You have to expect that stuff to show up.

adz
08-03-2011, 08:36 PM
Just keep an eye on here (http://www.classification.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/ClassificationsByDate?OpenView) to see when it gets classified.

Hopefully we will have an answer in a couple of days :)

hopefully, i just have so much hope that it will go threw as MA15+ uncut.

BuckarooBanzai
08-03-2011, 08:40 PM
It's a feed of the latest classification decisions. You have to expect that stuff to show up.

lol wasnt complaining, just saying I'm gonna be busy looking for other things now...thus the distraction. :cool:

Surgeon.
08-03-2011, 09:10 PM
Wow, this is frustrating.

So if I get an overseas friend to send me a regular copy, I'll miss out on the 20% discount, the tf2 hats (not tradeable), the day 1 unlock and the badges?

Presumably all that stuff is dependent on the person purchasing the game, not the gift recipient?

mcilrain
08-03-2011, 09:26 PM
I'm concerned about how popular this game will be in Australia now.

I can get a friend from the US to gift me this game, but not everyone will bother with something like that.

A multiplayer game without any local players is going to be a no-buy for me.

HeavyAteSentry
08-03-2011, 10:12 PM
Wow, this is frustrating.

So if I get an overseas friend to send me a regular copy, I'll miss out on the 20% discount, the tf2 hats (not tradeable), the day 1 unlock and the badges?

Presumably all that stuff is dependent on the person purchasing the game, not the gift recipient?

Yeah. Tripwire, you should go digital only in Australia and not sell it retail - then give us the uncut version.

Musph
08-03-2011, 10:27 PM
lets hope it' gets through.
this crap is bloody embarrassing; flies in the face of everything aussie.

adz
08-03-2011, 11:37 PM
just hope tripwire will reply if it goes get a rating.

Wazag
08-04-2011, 12:21 AM
This is seriously the worse news I've heard in months.
Been playing RO1 for ages with a ping of over 300 waiting patiently for this game.

and now my I feel like the game I've been patient for has been molested by the Australian Government.

I still bought the game straight away when I saw it for
pre-order but the excitement turned into bitterness as soon as I did.


Here are my questions: When the Australian government finally puts into-place the new rating system will tripwire maybe implement an update that adds the missing gore content?

and

Can you please explain in detail exactly what has been taken away? is there still some gore? or is it all gone?

and

having already bought the deluxe version would there be a way to get around the low violence level?

still looking forward to this but It would be nice to get some more answers.

sincerely disapointed.

wazag

Headcrab_Zer0
08-04-2011, 12:45 AM
We don't even know if it's been censored yet. Save the disappointment for when we actually know what's happening.

Igor3K
08-04-2011, 02:10 AM
Fingers crossed :(

das_masterful
08-04-2011, 02:41 AM
Tripwire - why don't you do this:

Australians buy the version you've set for us. That way we get to play the game, albeit not the way you intended. When the legislation is passed/game is classified and you can give us the real version, why not patch the game?

You're putting a good deal out here, and I want you to get my business - because frankly, I'm, sick to death of all this microtransaction bullcrap. I'm very willing to even re-download the entire game when it gets uncensored.

What say you?

Cousie G
08-04-2011, 02:57 AM
They can't uncensore it with a patch. They would have to resumbit the entire game to the classification board and resell it as another product, but submitting media to the classifaction board costs money and it dies down to if Tripwire will be nice to the Aus public and pay that fee.

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 03:38 AM
[And for those offended by "Ocker" - my apologies. I had always just thought it was some old-fashioned term for Aussie.]

Hey pom, okka is actually used as term of expressing that someone is a masculine tough aussie more often than not, so, no probs.

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 03:39 AM
...and when i pre-ordered there was no LV notice.

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 03:42 AM
..and is it just me or has it been removed from sale here? I cant get the store page up.

adz
08-04-2011, 03:45 AM
if anyone finds anymore info about this, post it like eg ; if this gets into the classifications with MA15+ uncut,

would appropriate it, atm i am saving this thread as a favorite.

will be checking everyday for some good news i hope!, anyways thanks.

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 03:49 AM
by the sound of it, they have submitted the gimped version. Even if we get an R18 rating soon, I doubt Tripwire are going to resubmit it for reclassification, as the price for that is $8-10K (i think that may be the price for an appeal of classification but im sure resubimition costs the same), and it has already been stated that any game that has previously been cut or RC'd will not recieve an R18+ rating without re-submition for classification.

Kruno
08-04-2011, 04:00 AM
Stopped me from buying it as well. Damn nanny state.

Kewp
08-04-2011, 04:07 AM
..and is it just me or has it been removed from sale here? I cant get the store page up.

nah just you
its still up

sneakbyte
08-04-2011, 04:09 AM
If anyone wants a uncut copy for $31.99 add kingsims on steam just paypal the money and I will ll gift it over. I have the original RO so I get the 20% discount and uncut copy (we have a R18+ Rating here in NZ and our government respects individual rights).

I have added this to this german thread aswell. NZ pretty much follows the BBFC UK Rating.

adz
08-04-2011, 04:13 AM
actually quick question, if this game does get a rating and its uncut? tripwire are you going to remove the 'LV' sign and add the uncut version?

vonpaul
08-04-2011, 04:28 AM
got to checkout and noticed low-violence version. Promptly removed from cart thankyou very much! :(

SparkTR
08-04-2011, 04:48 AM
I don't know why the Aussies are so worried about this. Look at past games with dismemberment that have past the censors unscathed: CoD: WaW, Fallout 3, Gears of War, AvP, Dead Space and Dead Island. There's literally no chance this will be RC'ed unless each bullet rips through limbs indiscriminately.

vonpaul
08-04-2011, 04:58 AM
I don't know why the Aussies are so worried about this. Look at past games with dismemberment that have past the censors unscathed: CoD: WaW, Fallout 3, Gears of War, AvP, Dead Space and Dead Island. There's literally no chance this will be RC'ed unless each bullet rips through limbs indiscriminately.

LFD2. I still haven't bought it although i guess i could buy from Ozgameshop

SparkTR
08-04-2011, 05:07 AM
LFD2. I still haven't bought it although i guess i could buy from Ozgameshop
Well, that's the exception. RO2 won't be anywhere near as violent as that regardless.

Armadeo
08-04-2011, 06:55 AM
One is that in places like WA and NT, RC content is not only not allowed to be sold, but actually illegal to own at all. Are you a WA/NT resident with the uncut version of L4D2? Technically you are a criminal simply for owning it.

The other reason is that the idea of purchasing things over international borders is legally confusing. There are some laws that still apply, wherever they can be enforced, and legally speaking a supplier of illegal content coming into the country can be prosecuted by the government internationally. Even the individual can be punished. If you, say, bought totally legal child porn overseas, and didn't even bring it back with you coming to Australia, you could still be charged here. Similarly, when you buy expensive things in other countries, customs demands you pay tax as if you bought it locally "to protect local suppliers". These situations may be quite different from this one, but if there's one thing the government does quickly, it's react to people breaking the law by having fun. Steam doesn't want that kind of expensive legal crap so they won't take the risk.



I would like a source saying it is illegal to own. I havent heard of this. Also this is not criminal law we are talking so we aren't criminals.

Also the law with the internet is quite clear cut. The country where the conclusion of the contract is, is where the appropriate law is applied. In this case we offer to buy from steam and they accept. End contract. Australian law should by definition have no place in this discussion. The fact that we are paying US dollars only works in our favour.

Khaosmaster
08-04-2011, 10:33 AM
I would like a source saying it is illegal to own. I havent heard of this. Also this is not criminal law we are talking so we aren't criminals.

Also the law with the internet is quite clear cut. The country where the conclusion of the contract is, is where the appropriate law is applied. In this case we offer to buy from steam and they accept. End contract. Australian law should by definition have no place in this discussion. The fact that we are paying US dollars only works in our favour.

The Australian Federal Govt lays down the guidelines, then it is up to each state or territory to enforce those guidelines as they see fit. (Why then, we had to wait for unanimous decision from the AsG is just stupid but anyway...). Check the WA and NT classification laws from their site - it *IS* technically illegal to own RC material in WA and parts of NT. It is criminal law exactly - If you are in possession of RC material then you purposely broke state or territory law, or broke it through ignorance (in which case, no excuse), either way the penalties still apply...

The "law" with the internet on the other hand is anything but clear cut... *Where* is the purchase being made? The opposing argument you put forth, is *Where* is the product or game being purchased from? The current legal system is lagging badly behind technology so the law is very murky regarding countries' borders, and a medium like the internet which has no borders.
US currency is irrelevant - Germany don't pay in US dollars but they get censored too.

It might make more sense for Steam to sell and advertise in AU dollars to Australians since our prices are inflated over what the US pays - but then the countries using the Euro have the same problem. I think if Steam started using AU dollars for Australia then they would make it 1-1 and we would lose our slightly stronger dollar (I imagine...?). Best not give them ideas...

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 11:56 AM
BIA:HH had slow motion graphic dismemberment and was a WWII game, that was uncut, so i dont see why RO:HOS will be....

Wilsonam
08-04-2011, 03:15 PM
Guys don't cancel your pre-orders yet! It hasn't even been classified. TW just put up low violence as a precaution. As others have said, much more horrific games such as Dead Island and Gears of War have passed for MA classification. Plus we have until the game is released to cancel pre-orders so there is no rush to do so immediately especially when we still don't know if the game has even been refused classification.

Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+. Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system! Keep watching this space.

Spathy
08-04-2011, 03:45 PM
Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+. Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system! Keep watching this space.

So uncut at MA15+? If so bough.

jtm33
08-04-2011, 03:48 PM
So uncut at MA15+? If so bough.

They will have to wait until the game is classified. They submitted an unedited version, so we will find out soon enough. If the game is refused classification they will have to edit and resubmit or they can't sell the game here.

voltagex
08-04-2011, 03:57 PM
Holding off on my purchase until cut/uncut is confirmed.

Worldwide fair pricing + full game = instabuy.

Coopz
08-04-2011, 05:10 PM
Also holding off. Censored/Disney modded games usually suck:(

Jigoku
08-04-2011, 05:15 PM
I would like a source saying it is illegal to own. I havent heard of this. Also this is not criminal law we are talking so we aren't criminals. For Western Australia, the relevant Act is this: CLASSIFICATION (PUBLICATIONS, FILMS AND COMPUTER GAMES) ENFORCEMENT ACT 1996 (WA) (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/cfacgea1996596/).

The relevant section is s89(1)(b)
89 . Possessing or copying certain computer games

(1) A person must not possess or copy —

(a) an unclassified computer game that would, if classified, be classified RC; or

(b) a computer game classified RC.

Penalty: $10 000. You will also have a criminal record.

There are similar provisions in parts of the NT. No other state or territory has this law.

Australian law should by definition have no place in this discussion. The fact that we are paying US dollars only works in our favour.s89(1)(a) above covers content that has not been classified.

Wilsonam
08-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Ok, that is just plain vicious... not to mention weird.

Forrest GIMP
08-04-2011, 06:44 PM
Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+. Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system! Keep watching this space.

As another poster mentioned, the OFLC is big on context. Dismemberment in a realistic war scenario was likely never going to be a big problem for them, from what I understand.

I think you guys jumped the gun a bit on that LV warning. You should of just waited it out, in my opinion...

Praxius
08-04-2011, 07:10 PM
For Western Australia, the relevant Act is this: CLASSIFICATION (PUBLICATIONS, FILMS AND COMPUTER GAMES) ENFORCEMENT ACT 1996 (WA) (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/cfacgea1996596/).

The relevant section is s89(1)(b)
You will also have a criminal record.

There are similar provisions in parts of the NT. No other state or territory has this law.

s89(1)(a) above covers content that has not been classified.

Well that's good, cuz I live in Victoria now and I'll be damned if they're going to try and fine me for still having my north american games I brought with me, that I paid for..... and I'm 31 years old.... I think I'm old enough to not require the state treating me like I'm still a child.

If they don't like that, then they can give me the money to buy Aussie versions of those games.

But since I don't live in those States, I guess I'm good.

The other thing is how often do those states actually enforce those laws?

You'd think they'd have more important things to do than fine adults owning video games they don't approve, like hunting down people who download child porn.

Nebslox
08-04-2011, 07:38 PM
The other thing is how often do those states actually enforce those laws?

You'd think they'd have more important things to do than fine adults owning video games they don't approve, like hunting down people who download child porn.

They don't hunt down people who download digital copies for personal use.

Customs has been known to confiscate imported RC material and issue fines (http://www.cnet.com.au/aussie-customs-to-seize-mortal-kombat-imports-339311426.htm) on occasion though, and public demonstration (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/03/1057179102728.html) of RC material might attract attention (like a public LAN tournament).

Praxius
08-04-2011, 07:47 PM
They don't hunt down people who download digital copies for personal use.

Customs has been known to confiscate imported RC material and issue fines (http://www.cnet.com.au/aussie-customs-to-seize-mortal-kombat-imports-339311426.htm) on occasion though, and public demonstration (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/03/1057179102728.html) of RC material might attract attention (like a public LAN tournament).

Funny thing is that I had the easiest time going through the US and Australia. My wife, who's from Oz had to get her fingerprints and eye scanned in LA, while they just said I could keep on going, and then in Australia, they stopped her to check any foods or candies she brought in, asked me if I had anything, I said no and on my way I went.... they stampped my passport and I asked if there was anything they needed me to do.... nope, just keep on moving.

Nobody checked my bags, nobody frisked me, nothing..... I could have brought all sorts of illegal things with me.... it was kind of funny.

Aetius
08-04-2011, 07:50 PM
I hope all this panic about the game possibly being cut doesn't damage the initial Australian RO2 community. I was hoping that Australia might develop a big community for RO2. The Australian community for RO is too small.

Amunkeeman
08-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Ok, that is just plain vicious... not to mention weird.

I always thought the ones over in WA were a little odd.

Also relevant, Quake 4 on the steam store is listed as R18+ for us Aussies. Hint, hint.

adz
08-04-2011, 07:58 PM
Also relevant, Quake 4 on the steam store is listed as R18+ for us Aussies. Hint, hint.

yeh i saw that also

Phazon
08-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+. Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system! Keep watching this space.

Its a funny little world isn't it!

In Australia, the difference between M and MA15+ is that MA15+ is restricted for sale for people 15 or up. M is only "recommended" for the ages for 15 or up, but they won't be asked for ID if they buy a game from the store.

In comparing it to the ESRB, MA15+ is usually equivalent to ESRB's Mature rating. M is usually equivalent to ESRB's Teen rating.

The reason for the debate for the introduction of an R18+ rating in Australia for video games is mainly driven by the fact that some games are currently being classified as MA15+ when in reality they deserve a higher rating. GTAIV is a good example of a game I would not recommend to any 15 year old, yet they are free to buy it in Australia.

Anyways in regards to RO2, I don't forsee any problems. Precedent has already been set by other games where the violence was much more significant and exaggarated than RO2's realistic portrayal which is less impacting than say what World at War is.

Miss Soda
08-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+.
Thanks for the update, Wilsonam! :) My boyfriend and I really appreciate how much feedback you're giving us on this. :D

Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system!
I don't understand it either, and I have to live here! ;)

crispy animal
08-04-2011, 10:42 PM
The classification board dont even understand our rating system.

Khaosmaster
08-04-2011, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the update, Wilsonam! :) My boyfriend and I really appreciate how much feedback you're giving us on this. :D


I don't understand it either, and I have to live here! ;)

I think a lot of the reason us Australians have a weird rating system is each state and territory can choose how to enforce the guidelines laid down by the federal government as they please - so what we end up with is a total lack of uniform national laws. Health care, education, alcohol, tobacco - pretty much everything changes slightly (or a lot) between states and territories. The police really don't care if you have an RC game or not - just don't flaunt the information around or try selling bootlegged copies at the local markets... Hopefully our media classification laws will become 'Industry Regulated' so we at least have a consistent set of rules. I can't see the lack of censorship getting past groups like the ACL though so maybe we will end up with some kind of 'hybrid' Industry/Government regulation system?

Aetius
08-05-2011, 12:42 AM
I think a lot of the reason us Australians have a weird rating system is each state and territory can choose how to enforce the guidelines laid down by the federal government as they please - so what we end up with is a total lack of uniform national laws. Health care, education, alcohol, tobacco - pretty much everything changes slightly (or a lot) between states and territories. The police really don't care if you have an RC game or not - just don't flaunt the information around or try selling bootlegged copies at the local markets... Hopefully our media classification laws will become 'Industry Regulated' so we at least have a consistent set of rules. I can't see the lack of censorship getting past groups like the ACL though so maybe we will end up with some kind of 'hybrid' Industry/Government regulation system?

That's the state system for you. If all our states were provinces or something to that effect, laws, prices, etc would all be streamlined. We are similar to the US in that each state here and there may vary a lot in how they function and each state has it's own little history - more so in the US where a lot of their states could potentially be separate countries. Texas and New York for example have wide cultural and legislative differences.

da'Ritz
08-05-2011, 12:42 AM
Thanks for the super-fast reply! That's awesome. :D

It's really horrible if the game does get censored for us Australians. It's not fair for anyone... not for us or Tripwire. :mad:


Just a friendly point, but please don't call us ockers. That's like if we called all people from the US 'red-necks'. Some people are probably cool with it, but it makes me a tad uncomfortable to be labeled as a stereotype.

Don' we? The term kind of suits our culture if you think about it. Just a nickname, nothing to be upset about, we have ours for everyone else.

Mr E Unknown
08-05-2011, 02:51 AM
Ok, that is just plain vicious... not to mention weird.

Speaking of weird, is there any reason that with 3-4 weeks to go until release RO2 hasn't yet been through classification whilst RAGE, with at least 2 months to go until release has already been classified in Australia?

Not trying to be rude or anything, just curious/concerned that we're currently in the Steam pre-order period with all the "goodies" available yet we're still unclear as to what version of RO2 we'd get and there's no classification currently published (has it indeed already been submitted?). Just seems a little "last minute", 'sall.

As for WA and their vicious rules... well yeah, they've been trying to secede ever since they joined (kicking and screaming) the Commonwealth. ;)

adz
08-05-2011, 02:58 AM
i hope there is heaps of hope in this, i really want this game uncut! heh.

Aetius
08-05-2011, 04:00 AM
Anyone who has cancelled their pre-order, check out ozgameshop. They have the game for $28.50 boxed copy. You will just have to wait a bit longer to recieve the game and won't get the DDE bonuses.

zehoo
08-05-2011, 04:54 AM
I'll be waiting for confirmation on what version steam will be selling australians before I preorder.

Mist69
08-05-2011, 05:49 AM
Anyone who has cancelled their pre-order, check out ozgameshop. They have the game for $28.50 boxed copy. You will just have to wait a bit longer to recieve the game and won't get the DDE bonuses.

how reliable are they?

MrMcGarnical
08-05-2011, 06:04 AM
Personally, I just love that the developers are here on this forum following this issue and keeping us informed.

That alone has put me over the line and made the decision to buy this game. Censored or not.

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 07:22 AM
Has there been any further development with the R18+ schedule since the SCAG meeting? (Like the 'minor' changes to the guidelines and whether the NSW AG has pulled his finger out?) I thought O'Connor suggested it would be implemented and operating before years end... (although maybe that was just wishful thinking...)
It would be annoying if Australia ended up with a censored version of RO2 by a matter of a few months :mad:
Oh well... If the ACB make yet another lame decision I'll just have to import... *again*...

I do think its good the developers are in the forum keeping people up to date too - At least I'll know whether to buy here or not :)

agent47
08-05-2011, 07:36 AM
Latest info is that the locals are submitting the UNCUT version we used to get the PEGI 18 rating with, expecting to get the MA15+. Now I have to admit I really don't understand the Australian ratings system! Keep watching this space.

This is exactly what I was hoping to hear/read, I'm feeling kind of optimistic about the whole thing now.
Our rating system is ridiculous though, a game that should have an R18 rating is rated MA15 meaning children can play it which defeats the entire purpose of not having an R18 rating, ergh.

Mr E Unknown
08-05-2011, 07:48 AM
Has there been any further development with the R18+ schedule since the SCAG meeting? (Like the 'minor' changes to the guidelines and whether the NSW AG has pulled his finger out?) I thought O'Connor suggested it would be implemented and operating before years end... (although maybe that was just wishful thinking...)

Short answer, no; remember though, "year's end" is December 31 so that's still some time away - even then I think it was just indicative by O'Connor, not a cast-iron guarantee.

For those that haven't read the communique from SCAG following the R18+ decision:

R 18+ Classification for Computer Games

Ministers made a decision in principle, to introduce an R 18+ category for computer games. NSW abstained.

Ministers:(a) agreed to take the Guidelines for the Classification of Computer games, as amended at the meeting, to their respective Cabinets
(b) agreed in principle, with the exception of the NSW Attorney General who abstained, that the Commonwealth introduce the proposed amendments to the National Classification Code to support the introduction of an R 18+ category
(c) agreed, with the exception of the NSW Attorney General who abstained, to commence drafting amendments to their enforcement legislation to reflect the introduction of an R 18 + category for computer games
(d) agreed that it would be desirable for classifications of existing games to be reviewed in light of the new classification Guidelines.In terms of formal detail, that's all we have so far. Don't read too much in to point (d), that's not likely intended to be for RC material to become R18+, but rather for existing MA15+ material to become R18+.

andysfile
08-05-2011, 08:11 AM
how reliable are they?

I have ordered from them twice, both arrived in good condition and they responded quickly to an email I sent them. They do take a while to deliver though, expect about three weeks.

Kewp
08-05-2011, 08:29 AM
I have ordered from them twice, both arrived in good condition and they responded quickly to an email I sent them. They do take a while to deliver though, expect about three weeks.

i have also bought several games from these guys to avoid steams price hikes and they are very good
ive never had to wait 3 weeks tho, on average about 8-9 buisness days.

daf1
08-05-2011, 08:30 AM
Glad I dont live in Australia. Video games and everything else gets censored.

Mist69
08-05-2011, 08:42 AM
i have also bought several games from these guys to avoid steams price hikes and they are very good
ive never had to wait 3 weeks tho, on average about 8-9 buisness days.

I have ordered from them twice, both arrived in good condition and they responded quickly to an email I sent them. They do take a while to deliver though, expect about three weeks.

Thanks for your answers, I've been thinking of using the site for a while. But i never knew if they were any good

Forrest GIMP
08-05-2011, 09:59 AM
Glad I dont live in Australia. Video games and everything else gets censored.

That's a pretty simplistic, and rather ignorant viewpoint.

No offense.

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 10:09 AM
Short answer, no; remember though, "year's end" is December 31 so that's still some time away - even then I think it was just indicative by O'Connor, not a cast-iron guarantee.

For those that haven't read the communique from SCAG following the R18+ decision:

In terms of formal detail, that's all we have so far. Don't read too much in to point (d), that's not likely intended to be for RC material to become R18+, but rather for existing MA15+ material to become R18+.

Thanks for pointing all that out - I forgot not everyone in this thread is from Australia and (or) following the R18+ scheduling process... I'll make sure to explain myself fully from now on :-)

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Glad I dont live in Australia. Video games and everything else gets censored.

"Everything else" such as?

crispy animal
08-05-2011, 01:51 PM
"Everything else" such as?

LOL, hard core porn, fire works, decent firearms, colour on cigarette packets, soon to be mandatory internet filters, airsoft.... heaps of things we miss out on or get lumped with.. oh, now we get to pay alot of money to have our jobs shipped offshore to high polluters because the greens run the country and all the tredy inner city latte sipping tree huggers get their way and feel better about themselves, yep, i love this country.

mav61
08-05-2011, 03:27 PM
LOL, hard core porn, fire works, decent firearms, colour on cigarette packets, soon to be mandatory internet filters, airsoft.... heaps of things we miss out on or get lumped with.. oh, now we get to pay alot of money to have our jobs shipped offshore to high polluters because the greens run the country and all the tredy inner city latte sipping tree huggers get their way and feel better about themselves, yep, i love this country.

Agreed totally...+1

RaptorBlackz
08-05-2011, 03:32 PM
Any word on how the uncensored turn out yet Tripwire?

Hovercat
08-05-2011, 04:00 PM
LOL, hard core porn, fire works, decent firearms, colour on cigarette packets, soon to be mandatory internet filters, airsoft.... heaps of things we miss out on or get lumped with.. oh, now we get to pay alot of money to have our jobs shipped offshore to high polluters because the greens run the country and all the tredy inner city latte sipping tree huggers get their way and feel better about themselves, yep, i love this country.
meh at least we can't shoot each other and who the ♥♥♥♥ cares what color a cigarette packet is :S

adz
08-05-2011, 05:00 PM
Glad I dont live in Australia. Video games and everything else gets censored.

Wrong. Our movie's go up to the highest rating from G - X18.

Australia just needs this r18+ for video games and we will be all set, just hopefully it will be really soon!

SparkTR
08-05-2011, 05:33 PM
LOL, hard core porn, fire works, decent firearms, colour on cigarette packets, soon to be mandatory internet filters, airsoft.... heaps of things we miss out on or get lumped with.. oh, now we get to pay alot of money to have our jobs shipped offshore to high polluters because the greens run the country and all the tredy inner city latte sipping tree huggers get their way and feel better about themselves, yep, i love this country.
The internet filter is dead in the water, and I'm not fazed about the personal use of fireworks or firearms, those have their place in society and I'm glad that place isn't in some suburban sock draw. Smoking I could care-less about, there are much faster ways to kill oneself if they are that hell-bent on doing so.

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 05:37 PM
meh at least we can't shoot each other and who the ♥♥♥♥ cares what color a cigarette packet is :S
ROFL - I actually liked the 'plain packaging' of cigarettes example. Maybe in 'Bozoland' the idea might cut smoking, but I think smokers would still buy cigarettes even if they came in a frilly pink package with the words "Worlds Biggest Bieber Fan" written in large neon font...

Scared
08-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Any word on how the uncensored turn out yet Tripwire?

It's the weekend now, so if they haven't heard by now then it will be at least another 2 days.

Smoking I could care-less about, there are much faster ways to kill oneself if they are that hell-bent on doing to.

It's not just the smoker, think of the people that have to breath in the disgusting second hand smoke. Smoking should be banned as it does nothing good and only serves to kill people (but the government makes too much money off it to stop)

crispy animal
08-05-2011, 05:43 PM
so your arguement that its OK to ban some things but not others is a bit hypocritical isnt it?

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 05:51 PM
The internet filter is dead in the water, and I'm not fazed about the personal use of fireworks or firearms, those have their place in society and I'm glad that place isn't in some suburban sock draw. Smoking I could care-less about, there are much faster ways to kill oneself if they are that hell-bent on doing to.
Totally agree :-) While I don't smoke cigarettes I do think they should have proper packaging indicating their contents (and the risks of use) rather than no packaging or being out of sight. Its not like they are advertised or glamorized in any way. I don't think it will change smoking habits either way, but at least smokers can't turn around when they have cancer years later and say they weren't warned...
I hate second hand smoke too, and I'm glad its banned from pubs and clubs - specially when you work there and can't escape.
Banning cigarettes completely wouldn't work... It doesn't work with drugs, it didn't work with alcohol, it doesn't work with illegal gambling, street racing or any number of other activities and tobacco will be the same. Banning items or activities that people will do anyway just creates a black market and other issues, which are worse than the problem you started with.

Scared
08-05-2011, 05:56 PM
so your arguement that its OK to ban some things but not others is a bit hypocritical isnt it?

I don't have a problem with banning something that has been 100% proven to kill the user and potentially kill anyone near by (second hand smoke).

crispy animal
08-05-2011, 06:04 PM
so, we ban cars cause they pollute, we'll ban alcohol because some people get drunk and hurt others, while we are at it, we'll ban freedom of speech because we could upset someone..

once you start it doesnt stop. I have no problem with people smoking, thats why we have smoking area's, if you dont smoke, you dont go in that area, how simple is that?

SparkTR
08-05-2011, 06:06 PM
so your arguement that its OK to ban some things but not others is a bit hypocritical isnt it?

The world isn't black and white. How can you compare bringing home a gun to bringing home a videogame? Videogames don't have the potential to kill or cause serious harm. You want to use a gun? Join a rifle association. The same reason why super-car owners store and use their vehicles at the track rather than on the street.

SparkTR
08-05-2011, 06:15 PM
so, we ban cars cause they pollute, we'll ban alcohol because some people get drunk and hurt others, while we are at it, we'll ban freedom of speech because we could upset someone..

once you start it doesnt stop. I have no problem with people smoking, thats why we have smoking area's, if you dont smoke, you dont go in that area, how simple is that?
I'm sure at one stage we'll ban petrol fuelled cars when a viable cleaner option pops up in the next century. We won't ban alcohol but why do you think drink-safe have been targeting high-schools? They're tackling the issue without doing something as heavy handed as banning the substance. You have to look at these things in a case-by-case basis, banning guns doesn't have anything to do with your theoretical scenario of banning alcohol. Ban freedom of speech, really? It's starting to sound like fear-mongering here.

Scared
08-05-2011, 06:15 PM
we ban cars cause they pollute

Cars serve a useful purpose in getting people from point A to point B, smoking has nothing but negative effects.

if you dont smoke, you dont go in that area, how simple is that?

Pretty hard when smokers can light up basically anywhere they want on the street.

But this is off topic.

crispy animal
08-05-2011, 06:16 PM
The world isn't black and white. How can you compare bringing home a gun to bringing home a videogame? Videogames don't have the potential to kill or cause serious harm. You want to use a gun? Join a rifle association. The same reason why super-car owners store and use their vehicles at the track rather than on the street.

I do own and use firearms, i havnt hurt anyone, yet i get punished for the actions of others, same as people who play games then go out and hurt others hurt all gamers.

Guns themselves are inanimate objects, nothing more that steel.

There is proof both ways in the game arguement as to whether video games cause violence in people. Personally i believe its crap, but, as long as their are people who wont take responsibility for their actions, and raising their kids correctly, we get stuffed.

crispy animal
08-05-2011, 06:18 PM
Pretty hard when smokers can light up basically anywhere they want on the street.



Boo-hoo, someone is smoking in an unenclosed area, i dont smoke but even i wont cry about that.

Stungray
08-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Many of your opinions are lethal to my brain cells, maybe some of you should be banned. :confused:

Damn weekend. The fact that we are debating Australia's policies on the steam forums, wondering if we'll even get to play the uncut version of RO2 at all is proof enough that something is wrong here.

Khaosmaster
08-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Cars serve a useful purpose in getting people from point A to point B, smoking has nothing but negative effects.



Pretty hard when smokers can light up basically anywhere they want on the street.

But this is off topic.

If your problem with smoking is the second hand smoke then nicotine can be sucked in through an inhaler. The nicotine will still cause cancer to the user and I agree that the use of such a product is pretty pointless (there are no advantages over a cigarette except for the lack of second hand smoke)- but some people are determined to kill themselves by the method that they choose and your best efforts wont stop them...

SparkTR
08-05-2011, 06:41 PM
I do own and use firearms, i havnt hurt anyone, yet i get punished for the actions of others, same as people who play games then go out and hurt others hurt all gamers.

Guns themselves are inanimate objects, nothing more that steel.

There is proof both ways in the game arguement as to whether video games cause violence in people. Personally i believe its crap, but, as long as their are people who wont take responsibility for their actions, and raising their kids correctly, we get stuffed.
There's no proof that videogames cause violence, there's one study that claims to that effect but it's been debunked. I own several firearms as well, a double-barrelled shotgun and a pellet rifle I inherited from my father, but guns in the wrong hands can kill, videogames can't. Again guns have their place in society at ranges, farm use, hunting trips etc.

Scared
08-05-2011, 07:10 PM
Many of your opinions are lethal to my brain cells, maybe some of you should be banned. :confused:

Not the first time I've heard that ;)

mo0nbuggy1
08-05-2011, 07:12 PM
Getting a bit off topic there.

What's news on the Ro2 censorship thingy?....Keep us posted yeah?:)

Wilsonam
08-05-2011, 07:19 PM
Getting a bit off topic there.

What's news on the Ro2 censorship thingy?....Keep us posted yeah?:)

It'll be at least a few days before we hear back from the Board in Astralia, via the local distributor...

Headcrab_Zer0
08-05-2011, 09:15 PM
The classification board don't work on weekends AFAIK. Earliest we'll hear back is Monday but it'll probably be Tuesday or Wednesday.

Mr E Unknown
08-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Once an application for classification is made, the Australian Classification Board (it always annoys me when people refer to the OFLC given they haven't technically existed for a number of years) has "up to" something like 20 days (or thereabouts) to return a decision - hence my earlier question as to whether or not RO2 has actually been submitted yet...

Fried Chocobo
08-05-2011, 11:31 PM
So one of the questions that has been asked at least 2x on this thread that hasnt been answered that I want an answer to is:

When we get an R18+ rating, will people who bought the censored version have the uncensored of RO2 be made available to redownload/or will a patch be made available? OR will Tripwire make us pay again to get the Unsensored version?

I hope this makes sence I've had afew beers.

Jigoku
08-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Actually the question should be if it ends up getting cut to fit into MA15+, would Tripwire bother to resubmit the uncut version (and pay the fee for reclassifying it) once an R18+ rating is implemented?

It is irrelevant whether they would make a patch available or not if they don't first get it reclassified ...

And is that a cost Tripwire want to bear in 6-12 months (or longer) after all their initial (and likely most profitable) sales are made?

Pika-Cthulhu
08-06-2011, 04:11 AM
Wrong. Our movie's go up to the highest rating from G - X18.

Australia just needs this r18+ for video games and we will be all set, just hopefully it will be really soon!

Not entirely accurate, there are banned, or Refused Classification adult films that are distributed in other parts of the world.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-29/secrets-of-obscenity-the-classification-riddle/2776656

"The implied violence comment is so strict that it renders virtually all crossover drama/porn films (those that ape cop shows, fantasy films and drama, but with added full sex scenes).

Adult videos have for instance been Refused Classification for showing a gun on a table or for showing a headline in a newspaper describing a murder. One video was refused classification because it was about people looking for a friend that had been kidnapped - even though the kidnapping was never shown. Another was rated RC because a character simply had a black eye. Another was rejected because of a scene showing a doctor putting on a pair of rubber gloves."

"... Only one spank (as in a slap on the bum) is allowed at any one time. And that can't be very hard. All BDSM is banned."

Quite poor form, hopefully the review that is currently being conducted finds its way out of the old wowser god bothering influence of the ACL and Connorhoid the Internet sanitiser.

As for R-18, its been a ridiculous 10 years of waiting to finally get it to where we are now, most of us are content with importing, means Gerry Harvey gets something to ♥♥♥♥♥ and whine about which is an added bonus.

Will be keeping an eye out for an update next week. Cheers to Tripwire for keeping us informed on the situation. Just one question, should the LV version be the one for sale down here, with the gifting, does the Gifter receive the Bonus content (KF skins, HatFortress Hats) or the recipient?

Khaosmaster
08-06-2011, 04:38 AM
Not entirely accurate, there are banned, or Refused Classification adult films that are distributed in other parts of the world.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-29/secrets-of-obscenity-the-classification-riddle/2776656

Will be keeping an eye out for an update next week. Cheers to Tripwire for keeping us informed on the situation. Just one question, should the LV version be the one for sale down here, with the gifting, does the Gifter receive the Bonus content (KF skins, HatFortress Hats) or the recipient?

Crap... So Telstra & Optus are (voluntarily) censoring our internet now? It never ends...

Thanks for mentioning the Bonus Content if gifting BTW - I didn't think of that but I'd like to know how that works too.

Kewp
08-06-2011, 04:56 AM
. Just one question, should the LV version be the one for sale down here, with the gifting, does the Gifter receive the Bonus content (KF skins, HatFortress Hats) or the recipient?

i got it gifted by my kiwi friend i got the kf skins
not sure bout the tf2 hats as i don't play.

Pika-Cthulhu
08-06-2011, 06:36 AM
Crap... So Telstra & Optus are (voluntarily) censoring our internet now? It never ends...

Thanks for mentioning the Bonus Content if gifting BTW - I didn't think of that but I'd like to know how that works too.

The censorship is the Interpol list, the interesting thing is ACMA compiling a list of its own, and Conroys Filter plan is not dead in the water, merely shelved until a review comes out in 2013.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1752098

Up to part 98, very long discussion thread about it.

http://libertus.net/censor/isp-blocking/au-ispfiltering-voluntary.html

Another site with information compiled about the ISP filter scheme. Now, so as to get back on topic (This is my last post on that issue, apologies for the thread derailing)...

Cheers for the headsup on the extra gifts. I much prefer KF, but I do sometimes play TFPixar due to having many years of fun with TFC. I can sometimes find the kind of frantic fun that I used to enjoy, not that interested in the hats but the KF skins, yes, id very much like to play with those skins. Also, would I be correct in assuming that the pre-order bonuses will be applicable up to the day before release? 3 weeks should be plenty of time for the Review board.

Khaosmaster
08-06-2011, 09:28 AM
The censorship is the Interpol list, the interesting thing is ACMA compiling a list of its own, and Conroys Filter plan is not dead in the water, merely shelved until a review comes out in 2013.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1752098

Up to part 98, very long discussion thread about it.

http://libertus.net/censor/isp-blocking/au-ispfiltering-voluntary.html

Another site with information compiled about the ISP filter scheme. Now, so as to get back on topic (This is my last post on that issue, apologies for the thread derailing)...


Actually it was my fault for derailing the thread so I apologize too. I appreciate the information though - I was just surprised the internet filter issue is back again so quick is all... (right after the progress made with the R18+ schedule too) :(
Anyways I'll keep posts about those issues out of this thread from now on...

ShortwaveSnuff
08-06-2011, 09:58 AM
It's sort of interesting, coming from another thread which asked the "average age of the average RO2 player". There were more people in their twenties than anything, a few older and a few a bit younger. So with that being said, I hightly doubt a dismembered limb is going to shatter anyones life. Good luck Aussies.:o

SparkTR
08-06-2011, 08:12 PM
Actually it was my fault for derailing the thread so I apologize too. I appreciate the information though - I was just surprised the internet filter issue is back again so quick is all... (right after the progress made with the R18+ schedule too) :(
Anyways I'll keep posts about those issues out of this thread from now on...
To my knowledge the filter list used by Telstra and Optus only blocks a small number of CP sites. I believe New Zealand and the UK do this exact same thing. Conroy's filter was set to block all RCed content including unrated videogames (like RO2 possibly), which is on the same level as China and Saudi Arabia. That's why people were up in arms over his list and not the current one. The Greens state they are firmly against Conroy's filter so with them around I don't see how it can be implemented.

Khaosmaster
08-07-2011, 12:52 AM
To my knowledge the filter list used by Telstra and Optus only blocks a small number of CP sites. I believe New Zealand and the UK do this exact same thing. Conroy's filter was set to block all RCed content including unrated videogames (like RO2 possibly), which is on the same level as China and Saudi Arabia. That's why people were up in arms over his list and not the current one. The Greens state they are firmly against Conroy's filter so with them around I don't see how it can be implemented.

ISP level web filtering once implemented has the potential to filter material it wasn't originally put in place for. Groups like the ACL know this only too well and you can bet they will fight tooth and nail to get any material they find objectionable censored. (Which going by their website seems to anything and everything. They recently lobbied to have all outdoor advertising 'G' rated the muppets...)
Even Conroy wants RC material added - yet RC material isn't even illegal to own except in WA, so the abuse has already started. The argument that only CP will be censored is also based on a bit of nonsense - just so people will not object to the filter until its already up and running and mandatory by which time it will be too late to complain.
I'm pretty sure I read the U.K decided against a filter in the end but I honestly don't know.

As it happens, I'm in the process of moving house and when I do move I will need to get a new ADSL provider - I certainly won't support any ISP that is voluntarily filtering their service regardless of how easy is is to bypass.

In any case I need to stop replying to off topic posts in this thread - I did feel that was worth saying though, really, honestly don't believe that any good will come of Conroys ISP filtering. Don't just take my word for it either, have a good read of the links Pika-Cthulhu posted...

SparkTR
08-07-2011, 01:04 AM
ISP level web filtering once implemented has the potential to filter material it wasn't originally put in place for. Groups like the ACL know this only too well and you can bet they will fight tooth and nail to get any material they find objectionable censored. (Which going by their website seems to anything and everything. They recently lobbied to have all outdoor advertising 'G' rated the muppets...)
Even Conroy wants RC material added - yet RC material isn't even illegal to own except in WA, so the abuse has already started. The argument that only CP will be censored is also based on a bit of nonsense - just so people will not object to the filter until its already up and running and mandatory by which time it will be too late to complain.
I'm pretty sure I read the U.K decided against a filter in the end but I honestly don't know.

As it happens, I'm in the process of moving house and when I do move I will need to get a new ADSL provider - I certainly won't support any ISP that is voluntarily filtering their service regardless of how easy is is to bypass.

In any case I need to stop replying to off topic posts in this thread - I did feel that was worth saying though, really, honestly don't believe that any good will come of Conroys ISP filtering. Don't just take my word for it either, have a good read of the links Pika-Cthulhu posted...

I agree. I was just stating that the current filter implemented by Teltra and Optus isn't anything out of the ordinary in the western world, it's Conroy's filter we have to worry about. I'm still going to say that Conroy's filter is dead in the water as long as the Greens have some power. He's just blowing hot air as to not upset the ACL.

blitze
08-07-2011, 01:07 AM
Query, if I purchase in Australia but then return to Finland where I spend most of my year, will my version be updated to the normal version when on my Finnish ISP??

And Australia needs to get over itself - political class and big business has stuffed this country.

Haydar
08-07-2011, 01:18 AM
Query, if I purchase in Australia but then return to Finland where I spend most of my year, will my version be updated to the normal version when on my Finnish ISP??

And Australia needs to get over itself - political class and big business has stuffed this country.

No it won't be updated, you'll still play cut version in Finland.

You should buy the game with a proxy or something (this is illegal, you can be banned), a friend from another country should buy it for you or you should buy it in another country.

Khaosmaster
08-07-2011, 01:24 AM
I agree. I was just stating that the current filter implemented by Teltra and Optus isn't anything out of the ordinary in the western world, it's Conroy's filter we have to worry about. I'm still going to say that Conroy's filter is dead in the water as long as the Greens have some power. He's just blowing hot air as to not upset the ACL.

Ok cool :)

SparkTR
08-07-2011, 01:28 AM
No it won't be updated, you'll still play cut version in Finland.

You should buy the game with a proxy or something (this is illegal, you can be banned), a friend from another country should buy it for you or you should buy it in another country.
Else just buy it from Ozgameshop.com, they import from the UK and have the boxed version on sale for $28.

Aetius
08-07-2011, 02:52 AM
How about greenmangaming? They don't seem to regionally restrict or regionally price. I remember Yoshi or Wil saying that they were negotiating with gmg to sell RO2. ->IF<- RO2 ends up being cut here, I might buy off gmg. Would take too long for my liking waiting for a boxed copy from ozgameshop.

Kyorisu
08-07-2011, 03:54 AM
Guys this is a thread about classification not your personal thoughts on some old and dead legislation. It does suck that retail and the requirement to be classified because of retail is the problem here. Anyone with a brain interested in the game here would buy a digital copy.

Also just because it seems appropriate whenever someone bashes any country. Look at your own it's just as flawed.

adz
08-07-2011, 04:06 AM
if any more news, post up for this rating.

Zoring
08-07-2011, 09:36 PM
Any update on the situation for this week?

MrMcGarnical
08-07-2011, 10:05 PM
Any update on the situation for this week?

I wouldn't expect an update until at least the end of the week.

I personally don't mind too much about having a censored version, but I wonder can censored versions play with uncensored versions? That is, can everyone play with everyone and dismemberment is simply not shown to the censored players?

Because if there was some sort of restriction where it was all censored or or all uncensored, that might just be a dealbreaker. I've looked at this thread pretty carefully and am fairly sure Tripwire haven't mentioned this yet.

Flanker15
08-07-2011, 10:34 PM
I personally don't mind too much about having a censored version, but I wonder can censored versions play with uncensored versions? That is, can everyone play with everyone and dismemberment is simply not shown to the censored players?



That's what I want to know too, it was annoying in L4D2 having 2 types of servers.

Scared
08-07-2011, 10:45 PM
Cencored and uncensored players should be able to play together. There would be no differences at all in terms of networking or gameplay between the two versions so there is no reason they can't play together (and I would be extremely shocked if a developer made them not connect).

That's what I want to know too, it was annoying in L4D2 having 2 types of servers.

Are you sure? As far as I know all L4D2 players can play together.

Headcrab_Zer0
08-07-2011, 10:53 PM
Are you sure? As far as I know all L4D2 players can play together.
I think the problem there was that if one player that had a censored version joined a server, it would be censored for all players.

Slazza
08-07-2011, 11:27 PM
I think the problem there was that if one player that had a censored version joined a server, it would be censored for all players.

It only stopped the Riot Police zombies from spawning.

Shoelip
08-07-2011, 11:29 PM
So it only removed some actual game effecting content rather than just removing purely aesthetic gore? :eek:

Flanker15
08-07-2011, 11:49 PM
I think the problem there was that if one player that had a censored version joined a server, it would be censored for all players.

Hence people would run servers that wouldn't let people with the cut down version join.

Zoring
08-07-2011, 11:59 PM
I'm hoping we will get it through as MA, LA Noire has naked mutilated ladies in it for mansacks sake.

Kyorisu
08-08-2011, 01:01 AM
I think the problem there was that if one player that had a censored version joined a server, it would be censored for all players.

That's because Valve couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag. Besides there is a very distinct difference between an enemy type being censored and something like limbs falling off. One is a game play element and the other is just some visual elements.

demsy11
08-08-2011, 01:17 AM
I think the best way is to order a version from USA or something like that, not from steam... that's all i can do.
I won't buy from steam

Dirp
08-08-2011, 03:04 AM
I think the problem there was that if one player that had a censored version joined a server, it would be censored for all players.

Nope. I have the censored version and am able to play with friends who have uncensored.

It only stopped the Riot Police zombies from spawning.

They seem to spawn for me. And definitely not playing on modded servers.

Headcrab_Zer0
08-08-2011, 03:20 AM
Nope. I have the censored version and am able to play with friends who have uncensored.
You can play with uncensored players but it will appear censored to those players when you join them.

Haydar
08-08-2011, 04:43 AM
You can play with uncensored players but it will appear censored to those players when you join them.

This is true. If you play with censored player (wtf is that) you'll be in a censored game too.

And you'll see play with those weapons in that game, which are made for the censored version like knife or mp5.

Dirp
08-08-2011, 01:40 PM
You can play with uncensored players but it will appear censored to those players when you join them.

Nope they still see gore and enjoy the full game.

Headcrab_Zer0
08-08-2011, 05:48 PM
Just read that the game has been delayed (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6327834.html?tag=nl.e513).

No doubt it's to cover for the classification process in Australia.

adz
08-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Just read that the game has been delayed (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6327834.html?tag=nl.e513).

No doubt it's to cover for the classification process in Australia.

awesme, well thats good news for us then!

Armadeo
08-09-2011, 06:12 PM
For Western Australia, the relevant Act is this: CLASSIFICATION (PUBLICATIONS, FILMS AND COMPUTER GAMES) ENFORCEMENT ACT 1996 (WA) (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/cfacgea1996596/).

The relevant section is s89(1)(b)
You will also have a criminal record.

There are similar provisions in parts of the NT. No other state or territory has this law.

s89(1)(a) above covers content that has not been classified.


Thanks, I must have missed that one. Great find.

mo0nbuggy1
08-09-2011, 10:00 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/08/10/3290150.htm

ThatAznGuy
08-09-2011, 11:15 PM
The suspense is killing me. I prefer my games wholly intact, regardless how relevant the cut content could have been. Also, keep up the good work Tripwire.

adz
08-09-2011, 11:50 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/08/10/3290150.htm

just read it, and love it.

'This means that draft guidelines will be formed which are expected to adjust the wording of the existing MA15+ category in order for it to be more restrictive while opening up the R18+ category to allow games that have previously been banned due to "violent impact" - such as Mortal Kombat 9 and the uncensored version of Left 4 Dead 2. However, it has been stressed by all parties that some games will still be Refused Classification, which may mean that American Football game, Blitz The League, which allows team managers to use steroids, may still be banned because of drug use. It remains to be seen whether this and other controversially-banned games like Mark Ecko's Getting Up (featuring graffiti tagging), CrimeCraft (drug-like boosts), Reservoir Dogs and Postal 2 (extremely violent themes) will be allowed by the new system.'

Yes and more yes!

MrMcGarnical
08-10-2011, 12:08 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/08/10/3290150.htm

For those interested, the Australian version of Kotaku has been good at this issue. Two articles on this today:
www.kotaku.com.au/2011/08/nsw-attorney-general-formally-supports-r18-rating-for-video-games/
www.kotaku.com.au/2011/08/brendan-oconnor-is-delighted-with-r18-consensus/

INsane_dod
08-10-2011, 12:09 AM
just read it, and love it.

'This means that draft guidelines will be formed which are expected to adjust the wording of the existing MA15+ category in order for it to be more restrictive while opening up the R18+ category to allow games that have previously been banned due to "violent impact" - such as Mortal Kombat 9 and the uncensored version of Left 4 Dead 2. However, it has been stressed by all parties that some games will still be Refused Classification, which may mean that American Football game, Blitz The League, which allows team managers to use steroids, may still be banned because of drug use. It remains to be seen whether this and other controversially-banned games like Mark Ecko's Getting Up (featuring graffiti tagging), CrimeCraft (drug-like boosts), Reservoir Dogs and Postal 2 (extremely violent themes) will be allowed by the new system.'

Yes and more yes!

(...which may mean that American Football game, Blitz The League, which allows team managers to use steroids, may still be banned because of drug use.)

OMG, I am over 50 years old, I have seen worse things just walking down our local street in the 70's, even worse now.

And my Government is "protecting" me from....?

One thing that really repulses me and is not regulated enough is the politicians appearances on TV... I find that repulsive, offensive and will not let anyone under 18 be exposed to it.

No wonder they stopped showing parliament on TV, it did not pass their own ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1N0qV_AtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMq0tzfmc3Y&feature=related

Please don't ban me Mr Video Game maker for posting normal behavior from Australian law makers :(

adz
08-10-2011, 01:50 AM
(...which may mean that American Football game, Blitz The League, which allows team managers to use steroids, may still be banned because of drug use.)

OMG, I am over 50 years old, I have seen worse things just walking down our local street in the 70's, even worse now.

And my Government is "protecting" me from....?

One thing that really repulses me and is not regulated enough is the politicians appearances on TV... I find that repulsive, offensive and will not let anyone under 18 be exposed to it.

No wonder they stopped showing parliament on TV, it did not pass their own ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1N0qV_AtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMq0tzfmc3Y&feature=related

Please don't ban me Mr Video Game maker for posting normal behavior from Australian law makers :(


I am just very happy that Postal 2, And other will be let in soon, extremely happy.

Scared
08-10-2011, 02:35 AM
I am just very happy that Postal 2, And other will be let in soon, extremely happy.

No, it doesn't work like that.

Games that have been refused classification will still have a refused classification rating until the games are resubmitted for classification. So if you want to legally buy Postal 2 here then the developer/publisher will need to resubmit it to the Classification Board and hope they get an R18+ rating.

Pelli
08-11-2011, 02:34 AM
From the games.on.net site:

"Red Orchestra 2's representatives in Australia confirmed to us moments ago (well, moments before the site went down) that the Classification Board has passed the game uncut and with no modifications, giving it an MA15+ rating for "strong war violence". This means that the game will now be sold universally, without the need for a low violence version designed around Australian audiences."

http://games.on.net/article/13432/Red_Orchestra_2_Uncensored_in_Australia_Receives_M A15

Stungray
08-11-2011, 02:37 AM
Ding dong the witch is dead! *Frolics happily*

s1234567890m
08-11-2011, 02:42 AM
From the games.on.net site:

"Red Orchestra 2's representatives in Australia confirmed to us moments ago (well, moments before the site went down) that the Classification Board has passed the game uncut and with no modifications, giving it an MA15+ rating for "strong war violence". This means that the game will now be sold universally, without the need for a low violence version designed around Australian audiences."

http://games.on.net/article/13432/Red_Orchestra_2_Uncensored_in_Australia_Receives_M A15


Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooottt!!!

MrMcGarnical
08-11-2011, 02:53 AM
I wish I could celebrate with some appropriate Australian words, but I'm afraid I'd end up with pink hearts all over the place. Anyway, here goes:

♥♥♥♥en ey!

Kewp
08-11-2011, 02:59 AM
everyone loves tripwire, even the classification board
this was always going to happen ;)

Cru_
08-11-2011, 03:31 AM
Buying the DDE the second they update the Store; the system SOMETIMES works I guess :3

Aetius
08-11-2011, 03:47 AM
Awesome news. But it's really not a surprise. I would have been shocked if they actually censored it.

Scared
08-11-2011, 03:49 AM
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooottt!!!

I agree

Draxonfly
08-11-2011, 03:52 AM
Buying the DDE the second they update the Store
Same, as soon as the words "Low Violence: Low Violence Version" on the steam store page disappear I am buying it too..
Woohoo..

Desi
08-11-2011, 04:30 AM
I am just very happy that Postal 2, And other will be let in soon, extremely happy.

Postal 2 was a sucky game anyway. A lot of the games that have been refused classification have been utter crap, with the exception of Risen and some others.

Anyway, hurrah for no censorship! :D

Forrest GIMP
08-11-2011, 04:35 AM
I hope they get rid of that LV warning ASAP.

Wilsonam
08-11-2011, 04:57 AM
I hope they get rid of that LV warning ASAP.

Waiting on official confirmation - the local distributors are due to hear from the Board on Friday.

adz
08-11-2011, 05:15 AM
Waiting on official confirmation - the local distributors are due to hear from the Board on Friday.

awesome news, so Tomorrow right?

Praxius
08-11-2011, 05:46 AM
Really?!

REALLY AND TRUTHFULLY?!

Oh I'm so excited I think I peed a little.... and I think I puked a little bit in my mouth due to the excitement, but I'm ok.

Forrest GIMP
08-11-2011, 06:36 AM
Waiting on official confirmation - the local distributors are due to hear from the Board on Friday.

Nice. I'll be pre-ordering as soon as its gone.

adz
08-11-2011, 07:15 AM
Nice. I'll be pre-ordering as soon as its gone.

same + hey andy!

Forrest GIMP
08-11-2011, 09:24 AM
lol hey adz

adz
08-11-2011, 02:18 PM
Well guess it made it threw, The LV sign has been removed and its MA15+ uncut.

http://www.classification.gov.au/www/cob/find.nsf/d853f429dd038ae1ca25759b0003557c/87fe87bb4097fd73ca2578e9005d67c8?OpenDocument

MrMcGarnical
08-11-2011, 03:11 PM
From the feeds in our early hours:

@TripwireYoshiro (http://twitter.com/#!/TripwireYoshiro)
We've just heard back on our Australian rating. MA15+ uncut.

Edit: Oh, and over here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2051604

Wildturkey88
08-11-2011, 06:24 PM
I pre ordered the red orchestra 2 in aus while it had low voilence version. With the release that it now will b over ma15+ will that mean my pre order will automatically be change to the good version or will i be stuck with the crappy low voilence version. ( Stupid me got excited about the game and just brought it without thinking, plus also got the deluxe version).

Praxius
08-11-2011, 06:37 PM
I pre ordered the red orchestra 2 in aus while it had low voilence version. With the release that it now will b over ma15+ will that mean my pre order will automatically be change to the good version or will i be stuck with the crappy low voilence version. ( Stupid me got excited about the game and just brought it without thinking, plus also got the deluxe version).

That question has been covered many times since the news.... don't worry, you're good. I bought it too when it was LV, but that was just a notification put up by Trip/Steam just in case it was, so that people didn't purchase it early with no LV notification and then turned out it had to be the LV version, thus having more people raging that they were ripped off.

The game has not yet been included on Steam, so there is no chance of accidentally getting a LV version. The notification on the Steam store page will be updated soon, if it hasn't already.

And if for some freak reason you do end up with a LV version, I'm sure a patch would come out very soon after to fix it for you.

I'm not worried and I'm sure both you and I will get the un-cut, since it passed the Oz rating system.

greglo
08-11-2011, 06:41 PM
I pre ordered the red orchestra 2 in aus while it had low voilence version. With the release that it now will b over ma15+ will that mean my pre order will automatically be change to the good version or will i be stuck with the crappy low voilence version. ( Stupid me got excited about the game and just brought it without thinking, plus also got the deluxe version).

You will get the uncut version -- the Low Violence label was just a precaution while it was being rated; everybody who buys the game from Australia/from Steam while in Australia will receive the same, uncensored game.

No need to cancel or change anything. :)

Edit: Beaten to it I see.

Wildturkey88
08-11-2011, 06:42 PM
awsome thanks for that ive been waiting for this game since it was announced that there will be a ro2.