EU3 Crazy AI

[Guiscardo]

Hi all, as the title might suggest I'm having some "problems" with some crazy AI tactics during the game.

I play online with a friend on the DW expansion and we're playing as Papal States and Sicily and apart from having some issues with the chain wars we get involved into (ie: I attack milan, I get into a war with milans allies and the allies of the allies and the allies of the allies of the allies and so on), lately we've noticed that some factions manage to recruit and maintain for several years, hundreds of thousands of troops (like 100-200k) while having really high inflation (in the last game Bohemia had 90%), low stability (-3), barely any building, let alone the high level ones. We literally spam spies on their territories, kill their advisors, counterfeit their currency and support new pretenders and revolts, but they still manage to work out and fight us so easly.

When it happens that we have low stability our economy goes down the drain and we can barely afford to maintain a few thousand soldiers (I usually don't keep more than 10-15k during peace time, but they seem to have 50-70k), but they can spend a century with low stability, high inflation, no cultural/army tradtion and still keep up technology wise with us and perhaps spend that century in 10 different wars.

So, what's up with this AI having these crazy tactics and this "magic" which seems to keep it's economy floating and their population always "full"?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

[blips]

I can only guess you have the AI on some difficulty level that allows it to cheat or supplies bonuses to AIs.

[Guiscardo]

Hmm, maybe but iirc my friend didn't have the "lucky nations" options activated at the beginning of the game, or nothing else as far as I know.

But this had already happened in a HttT game when France was fighting UK/Spain/HRE/most of the italian nations all on his own.

But anyway, yesterday we found ourselves fighting agaisnt WHOLE Europe because somebody attacked me and slowly all of his allies and allies of allies and allies of allies of allies joined in. We even had some african or asian nations agaisnt us and all because some nation attacked me. I don't recall HttT having this kind of stuff happening, if I remember correctly it was only the direct allies joining.

[pevergreen]

Hmm, maybe but iirc my friend didn't have the "lucky nations" options activated at the beginning of the game, or nothing else as far as I know.

But this had already happened in a HttT game when France was fighting UK/Spain/HRE/most of the italian nations all on his own.

But anyway, yesterday we found ourselves fighting agaisnt WHOLE Europe because somebody attacked me and slowly all of his allies and allies of allies and allies of allies of allies joined in. We even had some african or asian nations agaisnt us and all because some nation attacked me. I don't recall HttT having this kind of stuff happening, if I remember correctly it was only the direct allies joining.

Yup, Divine Wind has cascading alliances, where the war leader can change and bring in his allies, which can make the war leader change etc. Its done by prestige, so you can nail down who will be the final one.

The ai gets high inflation and stuff, always. The tech is because of neighbour bonus, to insure no one gets too far ahead.

Instead of having a low number of troops during peace time (making you look weaker to the ai) keep the same number, just have a lower maintenance.

[ConaxConax]

I don't understand why Paradox would not make cascading alliances optional instead, like with many updates to Divine Wind from HttT. I got DW in the sale and I regret it, as it ruined my ongoing games. It's my fault that I assumed it would be okay, but I thought it would be a separate loader, like Civ 4 Warlords or Titan Quest Immortal Throne. I still think it should be a separate loader.

[Guiscardo]

Yup, Divine Wind has cascading alliances, where the war leader can change and bring in his allies, which can make the war leader change etc. Its done by prestige, so you can nail down who will be the final one.

It's kind of an ugly mechanic tho, because it often forces you to a defensive policy, especially if you're relatively small compared to other countries.


The ai gets high inflation and stuff, always. The tech is because of neighbour bonus, to insure no one gets too far ahead.

That's quite stupid too, because if you decide to have a bad economy, you should deal with the consequences. If you decide to have high inflation, no buildings, the wrong advisors and so on, you accept the fact that you'll be techonogically behind other countries. There should be no bonuses like that :|


Instead of having a low number of troops during peace time (making you look weaker to the ai) keep the same number, just have a lower maintenance.

How do I lower the maintenance? I never recruit mercenaries unless I'm having a lot of problems or risking a lot and usually have 0.0 inflation (national ideas, advisors and buildings) and most of my armies are made of infantry with some cavalry and cannons (which cost more to maintain).

[pevergreen]

The army tab, the sliders down the bottom for maintenance.

Think about the tech bonus logically, if the guy in the province next to you discovers gunpowder and start using it, you're going to be able to do the same thing soon.

Cascading alliances are annoying, but it makes the game more challenging.

[KarlMonster]

I know that the Jarate the AI pulls doesn't seem possible - yet if you load a game as the AI country, I guarantee that you won't see anything out of the ordinary. It's quite maddening. The AI will (at least in HttT) abuse loans to fuel his armies.

What you can do is take advantage of the nations that go bankrupt - that means that they can't pay their armies, so army morale drops to about 10%. That makes doomstacks (paid for by loans) highly vulnerable - but don't wait too long. Otherwise I try offer white peace to individual large-ish nations who should be receptive. For example, nations that are too far away to have any real interest, can't reach me without a navy, etc. Sometimes, I'll even concede defeat when I have a positive war score, to try to get some individual nations to back off.

If only peace-time diplomacy could be so flexible...

[w00ties]

Instead of having a low number of troops during peace time (making you look weaker to the ai) keep the same number, just have a lower maintenance.

Is the only result of cheaper maintenance having lower morale?

Also, did Conax just say that by purchasing the expansion all the games now have cascading alliances? Is there no way to disable DLC/Expansions?

[w00ties]

Just checked out a EU3 forum, apparently EU3 Patch 5.1 fixes cascading alliances.


On July 06 2011 01:20 Euronyme wrote:

It's kind of annoying when you declare war, and the countries allies attacks (sure I counted on it, they sucked anyway), but then the allies allies attacks, and then even the allies allies allies! What the ---- I've got entire Europe against me for trying to take out Bar, which is a ---- country in the first place.
Grrr.

Edit, Oh great, my enemy's allies allies allies allies Poland is now at war as well... Awesome.



MattBarry United States. July 06 2011 16:40. Posts 90

They fixed the ridiculous cascading alliances in the 5.1 beta patch. I HIGHLY recommend it. It improves the game significantly and I haven't run into any bugs whatsoever.

On a more awesome note. TL.net Europa Hamachi server. Fund it. Starcraft nerds playin Europa together. Aw yeah
Source (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239873&currentpage=7)

I hope Steam gets this patch soon.

[ConaxConax]

Is the only result of cheaper maintenance having lower morale?

Also, did Conax just say that by purchasing the expansion all the games now have cascading alliances? Is there no way to disable DLC/Expansions?
By purchasing the expansion you can't access Heir to the Throne or prior, your game is overwritten. If you have saves from HttT they won't work with the new games.

There is a big patch coming soon, to update the game from 5.0 to 5.1 - it has been submitted by Paradox already a while ago and is active on non-steam versions, so we are waiting on Steam to implement it. It's possible saves from 5.0 may not work there too.

As Divine Wind has cascading alliances, and as I said you can't access the older games, then yes you have cascading alliances. There may be a text file allowing it to be altered, Paradox are great for things like that, but I don't know if there actually is, it seems to be one of the major changes so I doubt it. There's no in-game way of changing it.

I don't mind it being available, I just wish it was optional. I don't want to have to fight the entire muslim world just because I declare on Granada for example.

edit: @w00ties that's a great informative post, thanks!

edit2: wait you're the guy I'm quoting!

[gabdewulf]

The cascading defense recreates the 100 Year type war.
You can disable the Divine Wind. There is a thread somewhere. And you can update without Steam by launching from the game folder the "prelaunch" thing.
Also, there are cheats and saving/exit/loading/editing into countries are extreme problems.