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View Full Version : Ha ha, no DX9! Woot!


lgm1979
08-09-2011, 04:49 PM
You gotta love Avalanche. They basically told the Win XP holdouts to suck it when they released Just Cause 2 for the PC built on DirectX 10 only. And here were are with their next game, once again DX10 only.

DirectX 9 has held back the PC games market for years now, it's well past time to let it go, along with XP. Sure DX9 can still be used for indie games or whatever, but AAA titles need to utilize the latest tech. Just Cause 2 proved just how bad the pc games of today really are by actually being made properly for the pc and not dumbed down by being a port of the console version.

I can't wait to play this game in all it's DX10 glory!!

Cedge
08-09-2011, 06:44 PM
You gotta love Avalanche. They basically told the Win XP holdouts to suck it when they released Just Cause 2 for the PC built on DirectX 10 only.
I kind of doubt that it was so confrontational in their minds.

DirectX 9 has held back the PC games market for years now,
The Witcher 2 disagrees with you.

Just Cause 2 proved just how bad the pc games of today really are
Does it look better than The Witcher 2?

MIK3K
08-09-2011, 09:21 PM
By holdouts are you talking about half the planet?

Don't get me wrong, Win 7 is totally adequate. I dual boot XP for gaming and Win 7 ironically just for Just Cause 2.

I remember the olden days when everyone hated Microsoft for creating Vista (and ME before that). Somehow they convinced you that Win XP is evil and you believed it. One day they will tell you that Win 7 is bad. Performance versus visual quality - I pick performance because DX9 still can look incredible when in the right developer's hands.

I do love Avalanche by the way. I'll wait on this game. Not into top down shooters too much - 10 gb, must be packed with a lot of DX10 eye candy.

EDIT - Finally found this chart again. Win XP in July 2011 finally fell under 50% mark. Kinda misleading because that is compared against all OS, including Win 7, Vista, Mac, Linux, and others. It is still 49.94% of ALL operating systems in use, Win 7 is 27.87%. Long live XP!!!

http://www.techspot.com/news/44902-windows-xp-usage-finally-falls-below-50-mark.html

Cedge
08-09-2011, 10:21 PM
10 gb, must be packed with a lot of DX10 eye candy.

It's not actually going to be 10 GB. That's just some kind of extremely generous estimate, or perhaps, what they recommend you have free before installing, just so you don't come anywhere close to filling your HDD. Since the size limit of XBLA games (which this will also be) is just 2 GB, it's highly unlikely that the PC version would be much bigger than that, if it's that big at all.

MIK3K
08-09-2011, 10:27 PM
Actually, you know the craziest thing - 'The Hunter' is a hunting sim with a monthly subscription (actually a cut down, free version also). It uses the Avalance 2 engine. It is unbelievably realistic.

The kicker - It runs on DX9. Go figure.

Some eye candy here - http://www.thehunterwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

lgm1979
08-09-2011, 11:33 PM
I kind of doubt that it was so confrontational in their minds.


The Witcher 2 disagrees with you.


Does it look better than The Witcher 2?

Obviously it was not "confrontational", they just made the correct decision to not support such an old API and stated it quite clearly in the face of XP proponents anger leading up to and after Just Cause 2's release.

TW2 is a great looking game. It's also extremely linear and path driven and I would guess the entire TW2 world would fit inside just a tiny piece of the JC2 map. TW2 also does not run nearly as well as it should considering it's DX9. Not that it runs poorly, but it should run better.

And yes, at maximum settings JC2 does look better than TW2, with the exception of clothing textures, which is Witcher 2's bigest win.

Cedge
08-10-2011, 06:00 PM
Obviously it was not "confrontational", they just made the correct decision to not support such an old API and stated it quite clearly in the face of XP proponents anger leading up to and after Just Cause 2's release.
Did they make some sort of statement regarding this that I didn't see? You're inferring all this attitude from them, when all they did was choose DX10, probably because it's just what they wanted to use for their game. That doesn't mean they see themselves as opposed to Windows XP users or whatever.

TW2 is a great looking game. It's also extremely linear and path driven
Have you played it?

and I would guess the entire TW2 world would fit inside just a tiny piece of the JC2 map.
Which has little to do with DX9/DX10. All of JC2 would fit in a tiny piece of Daggerfall, and that game entirely predates 3D graphics acceleration.

TW2 also does not run nearly as well as it should considering it's DX9.
Again, you're giving way too much weight to API.

And yes, at maximum settings JC2 does look better than TW2, with the exception of clothing textures, which is Witcher 2's bigest win.
I (and probably many others) are just have to disagree with you there. JC2 does look great, but it's still full of blatant LOD swaps, cardboard tree textures, and the like.

RavN
08-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Do you understand how dx works? If JC2 ran under dx9 it would look nearly exactly the same. The only true dx tech in that game that can not be emulated well under dx9 is the nvidia only water tech. A well made game is a well made game on either version. In my opinion games like The witcher 2, metro 2033 and crysis 1/2 look at the top of the game in dx 9. Most games look functionally identical on dx9 and perform way better in that verion.

Its true that dx11 has more of an impact on rendering technology but I do not think that we will see a dx11 game built from the ground up for a long time. Generally, every game can be split into different renderers but it does take some work. I do not think they made JC2 dx10 to champion PC gaming but because it was cheaper to make one version. After all, the console versions are not running true dx10 anyways so the avalanche 2 engine clearly looks just fine in the more compatable and better performing dx9.

I actually hate dx10. I am convinced that its more a marketing ploy to push microsofts crappy windows vista and new hardware.

lgm1979
08-10-2011, 06:18 PM
I started following everything about Just Cause 2 the day the demo came out for it. I remember all this quite clearly:


http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/features/53469/Just-Cause-2-PC-Interview

"The PC version is absolutely not a port. This was a conscious decision early on and has meant that the PC version has been developed in parallel with the consoles as a project in its own right. We wanted to support and reward PC gamers who have stuck with the platform and upgraded their software and hardware to the latest specification."

"You always have to trade ambition for practicality when creating a game as large and as complex as Just Cause 2. One of the first decisions we had to make was whether to support DirectX9 or build the game from the ground up for DirectX10. This was a tough decision, but to make it clear, there is a reason why we chose not to support DX9, and that was to achieve a higher constant performance across a greater number of systems at higher resolutions.

Just Cause 2 features an almost infinite draw distance - and unlike a lot of other games allows you to be on the ground one moment and then 1000 meters up in the air in the next - the engine has to be capable of drawing vast amounts of detail, as well as running an extremely complex physics model for the world.

We do appreciate that there are a lot of DX9 systems out there, but what you have to ask yourself is how many of them could run the game well? What we wanted to avoid is people investing in the game and then getting 5-10fps, or having to turn off so many features that the game looked poor. Just Cause 2 is one of the most beautiful looking games out there and itís high octane action orientated gameplay requires a frame rate to match.

We have added several additional features for the PC version, such as the option to run the environment at a much higher level of detail and provide the ability for soft shadows and particles. We exploit the latest hardware with faster performance on multi-core processors, and optimizations for features like multi-GPUís. "

purplellama
08-14-2011, 10:43 AM
if you can run windows 7 64 bit, you'd be a fool to stay on xp.

i used xp pro throughout the life of vista, because it was junk.
but the OP is right, dx9 is really a thing of the past.
dx10 and 11 run some of the same things faster, and have improvements.

it's turning into a waste of time to support dx9.
yes games still look good, but they could look better.

MIK3K
08-15-2011, 03:23 AM
Okay, this thread specifically got me to looking to upgrade (not really for this game but all my other games) my AMD dual core on Win XP 32-bit 95% of the time and dual booting Win 7 64-bit just for Just Cause 2.

Turns out $270 will buy a new quad core Phenom 965, motherboard and 8 gb DDR3. I thought it was going to cost double that.

Three days from now I will join your cries for 'no DX9!'