STEAM is not offering refunds of FROM DUST (Updated Title)

[Oriental Sniper]

Via reddit

http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/steam-offering-refund-for-ever-sold-copy-of-from-dust/



EDIT: Apparently, refunds are not being honored.
Source (http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/jnefp/valve_is_not_honoring_refund_requests_for_the/)

[ParadiseDecay]

Via reddit

http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/steam-offering-refund-for-ever-sold-copy-of-from-dust/

Nice one Steam, our faith has been restored.

[.EpicWarrior.]

Wait, I already heard people weren't able to get a refund. How do I know this is true?

[.EpicWarrior.]

Trying to decide if I should get a refund. I think the game is fun, but the graphics issues, the horrible port issues, and the DRM make me want to get a refund.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Wait, I already heard people weren't able to get a refund. How do I know this is true?

Because you need a valid reason to have a refund granted, if you aren't happy about the DRM (because Ubi lied) then you are usually able to get a refund because you can't play the game.

If you can't play the game because you get stuck on the splash screen or it crashes, then again you are usually able to get one.

When i say "able to get one", im referring to valve actually refunding you, if you just go "hurr game is crap give refund" then you don't have a valid reason and you probably won't get a refund.

[AsciiAficionado]

I'd love to get a refund as Ubisoft doesn't deserve to be supported for this game, but, this game was gifted to me, not sure how a refund would work.

[Oriental Sniper]

Refunds are possible so long you give them a good/valid reason, they refunded me recently out of a preorder (RO2) I cancelled.

I'd love to get a refund as Ubisoft doesn't deserve to be supported for this game, but, this game was gifted to me, not sure how a refund would work.

You can submit a ticket and ask them, they might refund the original gifter back into his/her Steam Wallet.

[.EpicWarrior.]

Refunds are possible so long you give them a good/valid reason, they refunded me recently out of a preorder (RO2) I cancelled.



You can submit a ticket and ask them, they might refund the original gifter back into his/her Steam Wallet.

Off topic but would like to ask, why did you cancel your pre-order of RO2? I was actually just about to pre-order it.

Also pre-orders can always be refunded.

[Oriental Sniper]

Don't take it the wrong way, I'm pretty excited for Red Orchestra 2, but GreenManGaming was offering it cheaper and I had $5 credit with them, Deluxe Edition for $28 ;)

[AwayToHit]

Don't take it the wrong way, I'm pretty excited for Red Orchestra 2, but GreenManGaming was offering it cheaper and I had $5 credit with them, Deluxe Edition for $28 ;)

exactly why i cancelled my pre-order as well :)

[Metro]

Trying to decide if I should get a refund. I think the game is fun, but the graphics issues, the horrible port issues, and the DRM make me want to get a refund.

Better decide quick, they aren't going to let people play through the game in a week or so and then ask for a refund after they're done.

[MustardJeep]

It's nice that Steam is honoring it's players better then ubi. If it's doesn't load up and play for me, I intend to load up the crack to try again, and if it still doesn't work then ask for a refund.

Sad thing is Ubi used to be a decent game company releasing a lot of things I still love playing even after five or ten years of having played them. A nice quiet background 248bit encryption scheme to unlock on first install wouldn't be so bad but a always on just to play....Ugh that's why I only own two windows live games.

[k177sh0t]

rofl, Ubisoft made PC gamers beta testers

Holding off was a wise choise for moi

[Cyborgmatt]

I just submitted a support ticket, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Phreeflo]

rofl, Ubisoft made PC gamers beta testers

Holding off was a wise choise for moi

Beta-testing implies they plan to fix issues that arise and improve things.

I bet 1/2 my steam library there won't be any patch to address the issues with the bad port job.

as long as it "works well enough" for most people, they'll call it a day and count their money.

[.EpicWarrior.]

Don't take it the wrong way, I'm pretty excited for Red Orchestra 2, but GreenManGaming was offering it cheaper and I had $5 credit with them, Deluxe Edition for $28 ;)

Oh that's good, I was actually planning to get it at GMG as well.

[warhawkturbo]

I just submitted a support ticket, I'll let you know how it goes.

I too submitted a ticket. We'll see if I get a refund.

[.EpicWarrior.]

Better decide quick, they aren't going to let people play through the game in a week or so and then ask for a refund after they're done.

Yeah already submitted one. Ubisoft doesn't deserve my money.

[SrsJoe]

I haven't actually tried the game, only installed it but due to DRM and Ubisoft plane lying about it I shall get a refund.

[The Spartan Don]

I have to be 'that guy' and ask if I'd lose my TF2 hat as a consequence of getting a refund?

Seriously contemplating getting a refund, but I'd suck if I'd lose my TF2 item as an result for getting a refund.

[Rdemption]

I also asked for a refund a few minutes ago. Thanks OP for linking to that article.

[necron2]

I was already denied my refund because |"As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement"|

I really don't know how legit OP is, considering that I complained about the DRM policy and nothing else.

[DarkDvr]

STEAM!
Stand by us, your loyal customers and we will NOT forget it.
Lose some income now, get tons of loyal customers and purchases later.

[Seafort]

Steam didn't give me a refund for From Dust. Just got their reply back now.

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded."



Just alot of waffle as usual. Guess i'll have to watch what i buy from steam from now on.
No more ubisoft games thats for sure.

[Clongetty]

I was already denied my refund because |"As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement"|

I really don't know how legit OP is, considering that I complained about the DRM policy and nothing else.

Same here, my refund was refused for the same reason.

[.EpicWarrior.]

Are you serious? Damn, I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well, 15 dollars down the drain. Never buying from Ubisoft again.

[SaveSaturday]

Steam didn't give me a refund for From Dust. Just got their reply back now.

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded.

Anytime you wish you can view your question online:
https://support.steampowered.com/view.php?ticketref=8042-RAZX-3619"


Got the same e-mail just now. Clearly no refunds for From Dust at the moment.

[ParadiseDecay]

Got the same e-mail just now. Clearly no refunds for From Dust at the moment.

So is this fake?
http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/steam-offering-refund-for-ever-sold-copy-of-from-dust/

It's starting to show up on a lot of game news sites?
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/08/from-dusts-pc-release-is-a-man-made-disaster/
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/jmxe1/steam_offering_refunds_of_from_dust_due_to/
http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/14015/valve-offering-from-dust-refunds-over-drm-flap
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ubisoft-Breaks-Steam-ToS-With-From-Dust-DRM-Valve-Offers-Refunds-34397.html

why would Steam say this, then not allow a refund when asked?

[Backstab Baron]

why would Steam say this, then not allow a refund when asked?

They didn't, at least as far as I know. That article is the main source on various news sites, and yet it doesn't cite Valve actually saying anywhere.

[Umfafa]

UbiSoft is hideous for PC games. Let's hope Steam recognizes this game is an epic failure for the PC market. Submitted refund request as well....thank you for the link!

[Nazzul]

I have a feeling that whoever runs the site just wanted more visitors so it posted fake info. That or they read it from somewhere like reddit and just posted it without any research. To think I was actually thinking of getting Dust.

This is a great learning experience on what to trust on the internet, specially when no sources are given. *grabs popcorn*

[ParadiseDecay]

They didn't, at least as far as I know. That article is the main source on various news sites, and yet it doesn't cite Valve actually saying anywhere.

Steam need to clarify/deny this as its starting to spread to all the major game news sites. UBISoft are also trying to cover their DRM mistake.

Steam needs to do the decent thing here for once and back their loyal fans and gamers.

[Rdemption]

The article the OP linked to is not legit. I just got the standard automated reply back where it states they do not hand out refunds unless the request was received prior to a game's release (pre-order).

[kingqyyn]

Between Vampire: The Masquerade and now this debacle, I've learned my lesson: ALWAYS check the forums before I buy a game. I hope Ubisoft is satisfied leeching so much cash from PC gamers that can't even play their $#&%ing game...

[cortez09]

we should storm the support and valve itself for a definitive awnser

[drenai2001]

Between Vampire: The Masquerade and now this debacle, I've learned my lesson: ALWAYS check the forums before I buy a game. I hope Ubisoft is satisfied leeching so much cash from PC gamers that can't even play their $#&%ing game...

I Totally agree with you, I usually always read the forums here and base my purchases on you guys opinion of games, well I thought for $15 I cant really lose, well I lost.:mad: serves me right, I do hope UBISOFT gets this corrected, what ticked me off is that fact they lied about the constant internet conection not being used and then it is, then they covered it up on their forums. Atleast have the balls to admit you made a mistake and then say you will fix it.

[xanaty]

Valve denied my request for a refund as well. Steam is a great service but not accepting refunds for a faulty dishonest product is bad business. Stop playing DOTA Gabe N, and enhance your Customer Service

[Cyborgmatt]

I just submitted a support ticket, I'll let you know how it goes.
Denied:
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

[Blue Thunder]

Altho I really enjoy this game, and thus I won't ask for a refund, I do agree that the TERRIBLE CONSOLE port and the lies about the DRM are a kick in the damn n*ts.

Seriously... a 2 weeks delay for PC... what for? NOTHING! it's a damn pure console port!!

Ubisoft, I'm never buying a game made by you EVER again.

[DarkDvr]

Altho I really enjoy this game, and thus I won't ask for a refund, I do agree that the TERRIBLE CONSOLE port and the lies about the DRM are a kick in the damn n*ts.

Seriously... a 2 weeks delay for PC... what for? NOTHING! it's a damn pure console port!!

Ubisoft, I'm never buying a game made by you EVER again.

The delay was due to game running at 10 FPS with no mouse support.
Now you get 30 FPS and the black snake thingy.. kinda-somewhat reacts to the mouse a little.

[Kral]

I hope this comes down on Ubisoft's head and it's not just Steam shouldering the burden of cleaning up the mess. Hopefully Ubisoft's lies regarding the DRM is some sort of breach that Steam can go after them for to cover costs associated with refunds.

[Blue Thunder]

The delay was due to game running at 10 FPS with no mouse support.
Now you get 30 FPS and the black snake thingy.. kinda-somewhat reacts to the mouse a little.

Another proof (if not enough already) why Ubisoft ruined this game... it could've been something so much greater than what it is now... damn console port >.<

[rekasa]

Got a message from steam support:
__________________________________________________ _______________
Hello,

A staff member has replied to your question:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I guess there's no refund for me, even though I preordered the game and only found out today that they had the forced online DRM. :/

[chmod007]

Ditto.

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through
the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded.

[Reebdoog]

Trying to decide if I should get a refund. I think the game is fun, but the graphics issues, the horrible port issues, and the DRM make me want to get a refund.

I was in the same boat. Although it looks like no one is getting a refund anyway?

edit: RPS comments have people getting refunds: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/18/from-dust-does-need-online-badly-ported/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rockpapershotgun%2Fsteam+%28R ock%2C+Paper%2C+Shotgun%3A+Steam+RSS%29

[Ghil]

I was refused a refund from Steam -_-'

[rekasa]

That sucks, some people are able to get refunds, yet others are not? :(

[patsajak]

what if the game was gifted because i dont have a credit card and i gave my frtiend the money to pre order the game?

[snapcase]

I've played the game, only got stuck at the splash screen once (would make a decent screen saver), and only experienced a couple of glitches. The graphics seem decent. The reactions over the DRM issue is understandable, but since I never knew they said you wouldn't need a constant connection, I kinda assumed you would... after all, it's Ubi. Yeah, it's a port, but I've seen MUCH worse, and it's still quite playable, though the controls can be a bit finicky at times. My biggest complaint is that with around 6-8 hours of gameplay (assuming steam kept track properly) and almost no replay value... I'd have rather gotten it on sale.

I'd be very surprised if these rumors of refunds are actually true.

All in all, I don't see why Kotaku gave it such a scathing review. It's not a complete disaster, but yes it could use a lot of work. At the very least an SDK to make custom levels would add some additional play value for the price.

[Avetea]

I also sent a ticket to support asking for a refund, but was sent an automatic message as well :/

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.ph...iber_agreement

I don't understand.. Are they giving refunds, or not? I wish all this stuff would get cleared up. I recently joined the forums and just got the ability to post replies. I've been reading through all of these posts and I'm upset also because I couldn't even get past the Ubisoft logo after starting the game. I payed for this game expecting I would be able to play it. -.-

[Raven1417]

I wonder if a Valve rep can point us in the direction of where in their Terms and Conditions for sale they have a clause stating that the pre-ordered product can be changed upon release resulting in a different product being given to the purchaser and that there is no grounds for a refund.

[Oriental Sniper]

Well, this is getting messy, to those who got denied the refund, did you just ask for a refund or offered the DRM as explanation/reason? :confused:

[Raven1417]

Well, this is getting messy, to those who got denied the refund, did you just ask for a refund or offered the DRM as explanation/reason? :confused:

I mentioned the DRM and how it was not part of the conditions underwhich the game was purchased. Yet to here a response to that though.

[Chairs]

I just put in for a refund - I'm leaving for Afghanistan in 3 weeks and I won't be able to even play the game >.>

Regardless of the outcome, I'm never buying a Ubi game again. I was very skeptical about this purchase and it looks like it could backfire right in my face. . .

[Dr_Bojangles]

Sent in my ticket as well and was denied.

It's good to see that I spent $15.00 on a false advertised game. I travel for a living so guess I won't be playing anytime soon.

It's ridiculous to require online approval for an offline game.

[Avetea]

Well, this is getting messy, to those who got denied the refund, did you just ask for a refund or offered the DRM as explanation/reason?
When asking for a refund I did mention the DRM along with other problems I was having with the game. I was calm and politely asked for a refund but it was no use apparently.. I was really excited when I saw this game on Steam and couldn't wait to play it. I don't usually play PC games and thought I'd give it a try. This is what I get :/ I'm going to send another ticket tomorrow trying to get a refund. All of this stuff is very unorganized and confusing, but I'm not stopping till I get my refund. This is ridiculous..

[Dr_Bojangles]

They'll only refund those who pre-ordered sadly. So everyone else is screwed.
_____________________
We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded.

[Foamy208]

Just posted an lengthy and pleading ticket. It took a bit of work but for the love of god I'd like them to actually read it.

[racingfreak92]

Lo-Ping has no source. They wrote a stupid and misinformed article based off the fact that ONE user at Rock Paper Shotgun was given a refund. I have been following this From Dust controversy closely and have not seen substantial or consistent reports of Steam giving refunds.

Ubisoft IS giving refunds for purchases through UPlay, but Steam has made no statement about refunds.

[evil_buddy]

Lo-Ping has no source. They wrote a stupid and misinformed article based off the fact that ONE user at Rock Paper Shotgun was given a refund. I have been following this From Dust controversy closely and have not seen substantial or consistent reports of Steam giving refunds.

They've now corrected the typo in the headline (changing "ever" to "every") and put it in the form of a question, instead: "Valve to Offer Refund For Every Sold Copy of From Dust?" with an edit stating that many are saying that Valve has refused to refund. They completely jumped the gun and now are desperately attempting some damage control, it's interesting to watch. I hope they learned from this to not make factual claims with no actual source in the future.

[Polendino]

Text from my complaint;

This Question's Message(s)
1 Message by you on Thu, 18th Aug 2011 10:46 pm
To whom it may concern;

I recently purchased a copy of the game "From Dust", published by Ubisoft, through your distribution service.

Around the beginning of August, 2011, many online news sources collaborated that From Dust will not have any DRM beyond Steam's existing frameworks and a "one-time" activation, for which online access is required. (Note;

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/04/ubisoft-from-dust-pc-will-not-require-constant-internet-connect/

http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/28/trouble-brewing-from-dust-pc-version-to-use-ubisoft-online-service-drm/

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111941-From-Dust-Always-On-DRM-Rumors-Denied-UPDATED)

As multiple sources acknowledge an official Ubisoft contact, and report on the same story WITHOUT having collaborated with eachother (many other sites reposted the same news, especially from vg247, but the three listed and MANY more asked for themselves), I am counting this as official word that "From Dust" would not require an online connection at every launch.

However, "From Dust" DOES require an internet connection at every launch (leaving notwithstanding the fact that it is a product of inferior quality).

Under the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (Federal) in Australia;

Chapter 3—Specific protections
Part 3-1—Unfair practices
Division 1—False or misleading representations etc.
29 False or misleading representations about goods or services
(1) A person must not, in trade or commerce, in connection with the
supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connection
with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or
services:
(a) make a false or misleading representation that goods are of a
particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style
or model or have had a particular history or particular
previous use; or
(b) make a false or misleading representation that services are of
a particular standard, quality, value or grade; or
(c) make a false or misleading representation that goods are new;
or
(d) make a false or misleading representation that a particular
person has agreed to acquire goods or services; or
(e) make a false or misleading representation that purports to be
a testimonial by any person relating to goods or services; or
(f) make a false or misleading representation concerning:
(i) a testimonial by any person; or
(ii) a representation that purports to be such a testimonial;
relating to goods or services; or
(g) make a false or misleading representation that goods or
services have sponsorship, approval, performance
characteristics, accessories, uses or benefits; or
(h) make a false or misleading representation that the person
making the representation has a sponsorship, approval or
affiliation; or
(i) make a false or misleading representation with respect to the
price of goods or services; or
(j) make a false or misleading representation concerning the
availability of facilities for the repair of goods or of spare
parts for goods; or
(k) make a false or misleading representation concerning the
place of origin of goods; or
(l) make a false or misleading representation concerning the
need for any goods or services; or
(m) make a false or misleading representation concerning the
existence, exclusion or effect of any condition, warranty,
guarantee, right or remedy (including a guarantee under
Division 1 of Part 3-2); or
(n) make a false or misleading representation concerning a
requirement to pay for a contractual right that:
(i) is wholly or partly equivalent to any condition,
warranty, guarantee, right or remedy (including a
guarantee under Division 1 of Part 3-2); and
(ii) a person has under a law of the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory (other than an unwritten law).


HOWEVER;

It is under Chapter 3, Part 3-1, Division 1, Article 29 (1) (m) AND Article 29 (1) (n) (i);

A person must not;
(m) make a false or misleading representation concerning the
existence, exclusion or effect of any condition, warranty,
guarantee, right or remedy, or
(n) make a false or misleading representation concerning a
requirement to pay for a contractual right that:
(i) is wholly or partly equivalent to any condition,
warranty, guarantee, right or remedy.

It is my personal belief that this "always-on" DRM is a condition for ownership (or contractual use, under Steam's EULA).

As a result, I request;

a) A refund to the value of $14.99 USD, discounting inflation, in any medium of your choice.
b) A deactivation of my Steam copy of From Dust, including my UPlay serial key.

If this is not delivered, I will not hesitate to lodge separate complaints against Valve Corporation (and its Australian operations), as well as Ubisoft Entertainment (Australia) with the Australian Consumer and Commission Tribunal and the Australian Federal Ombudsman. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, :P

Thanks, and I hope for your speedy reply,


Hope I get something back, the time I managed to spend in From Dust after dealing with issues with my UPlay Account was minimal, and painful.

[Scolby]

Text from my complaint;



Hope I get something back, the time I managed to spend in From Dust after dealing with issues with my UPlay Account was minimal, and painful.

I did this with medal of honor not actually giving the bf3 beta to steam users and after 3 weeks of long waiting times I got my refund

[Sk_unk92]

I did this with medal of honor not actually giving the bf3 beta to steam users and after 3 weeks of long waiting times I got my refund

I'm not sure how true this is.. but I have heard about people getting their steam accounts locked after receiving a refund. Is this accurate at all?

[Scolby]

I'm not sure how true this is.. but I have heard about people getting their steam accounts locked after receiving a refund. Is this accurate at all?

I have my money from the refund sitting in my account, everything went good my account isn't locked :P

[evil_buddy]

I'm not sure how true this is.. but I have heard about people getting their steam accounts locked after receiving a refund. Is this accurate at all?

Perhaps you're thinking of the chargeback type of refund. If you start a chargeback for a game you purchased from Steam, your account will be disabled.

[Ataraxis420]

I didn't get a refund? I mailed support to tell them about the DRM that wasn't stated when I purchased the game, and they told me they won't give refunds unless you want to cancel your pre-order.

How can they give some people refunds and some not? Makes no sense.

[NokiGP]

This is absolutely stupid! They lie about the DRM and they don't even have the common sense to give the customers refund or at least explain!
I will never buy something from Ubisoft again and thank God i saw this topic before deciding to buy the game.

[JamieKirby1981]

oh my word, i can admit the lack of info on it is abit of an annoyance, but how can you all be having a hissy fit over needing to be online at all times to play?

I mean, there is no limiting activations to get in the way, i actually prefer this type of protection compared to the limited activations.

Only the dial-up users are screwed over this and they have a right to be complaining, but then they wouldn't be getting the game via steam.

Overall, i don't see the reason for the big hissy fit over the 'always online' protection.

[Polodox]

A lot of the people feel they are being punished for something they never did. When added to the fact the game is a port to PC causes ire.

Now speaking more broadly, Laptops are slowly entering the medium of video gaming with more and more people willing to buy a laptop for gaming for portability.

Whether the portability is either for business or pleasure the limits placed on an always online connection causes immense inconveniences.

The only good metaphor example is like going to a book store and buying a book and then being told you can only read it in a library or the bookstore.

being always online is a equally unreasonable prospect.

[evil_buddy]

Overall, i don't see the reason for the big hissy fit over the 'always online' protection.

Aside from a wide distaste for DRM in general, the anger you are seeing is due to Ubisoft specifically stating there would be none, and then - after many have bought it - surprise! There it is, with not even an apology or explanation. How is that incomprehensible to you? I will give you the benefit of a doubt and assume you have been living under a rock and thus not understand the issue at hand.

[Reebdoog]

...but how can you all be having a hissy fit over needing to be online at all times to play?

Mine has bugged out twice now, saying there is no internet connection and it just closes the game with a pop up saying no connection. It's pretty annoying when that happens. It's not like my net went down either, I had other programs that didn't flinch when it said that.

[T@F]

I didn't get a refund? I mailed support to tell them about the DRM that wasn't stated when I purchased the game, and they told me they won't give refunds unless you want to cancel your pre-order.

How can they give some people refunds and some not? Makes no sense.

Did you present your case in a proper manner?
Just saying you want a re-fund wont work.

You have to prove evidence that what you bought is not what you got.
Send support another ticket.

[tech7]

Only the dial-up users are screwed over this and they have a right to be complaining, but then they wouldn't be getting the game via steam.


You are wrong there. Every user who uses PC's that aren't always connected to the Internet is screwed . Usually the case with Laptops, you download the game at home and want to play where you don't have connection.


And every user is screwed if the Ubisoft server has problems.

[City Builder]

So, out of you folks that were refused a refund, how many of you had preordered From Dust?

[goettel]

They refused my refund, on a (not downloaded) preorder copy. Same copy/paste reply as others here

[fixedr6]

I had pre-ordered and have now requested a refund.

[clouden]

Fired away a request yesterday for a refund but didn't get one.

[Kaisha]

Was refused a refund as well. Sent another message and hoping. This is very disappointing and will definitely affect future purchasing decisions with steam.

[ParadiseDecay]

Ive just heard from UBIsoft support asking reasons for the refund, I'll keep you posted of the outcome.
I did mention the DRM issues and also that 'Steam said to contact UBISoft'

There is also a post on the UBIsoft forums saying to contact the retail for the refund, which would be steam.

I also sent the same refund request to Steam, but haven't had any reply yet.

it seems we're now in a vicious circle, which is why the laws on digital downloads and refunds needs changing.

[SrsJoe]

So, out of you folks that were refused a refund, how many of you had preordered From Dust?

I had it pre-ordered for about 3 weeks, very disappointed with the way Steam and Ubisoft are dealing with the situation, seems as if everyone is getting the exact same copypaste reply

[ParadiseDecay]

If Steam have offered a refund or not, then I think they need to make a statement to clear this matter up.

If they have agreed to a refund, which would be the most decent thing they could do for their fans, I would assume the 'no refunds email' would be sent by defualt.

If Steam haven't offered an official refund I would want to know so I can persue the matter with UBIsoft, who are now claiming we get refunds from the retailer, Steam.

[unknown555525]

Not sure if it's been posted in this topic yet, but Steam's usual policy is that if you want a refund, you can't have spent much time on the game. They know how far along you are in the game and how many hours you've played it, you can't just complete it, then return it, they won't do that.

If you launched the game, hassled with the DRM and never actually played it, then your chances of getting a refund are a hell of a lot higher.

[Twoframes]

False advertising it illegal in most countries

Does their ToS lie beyond the law? I thought I read that Valve has to obey the laws in the countries they are offering their services to, does that mean they have to give me a refund?

[skinlo]

False advertising it illegal in most countries

Does their ToS lie beyond the law? I thought I read that Valve has to obey the laws in the countries they are offering their services to, does that mean they have to give me a refund?

If you've used the product, then no, they don't I don't believe you can. However, I am no legal expert, so you may as well try and get a refund from either Valve or Ubisoft.

[racingfreak92]

They've now corrected the typo in the headline (changing "ever" to "every") and put it in the form of a question, instead: "Valve to Offer Refund For Every Sold Copy of From Dust?" with an edit stating that many are saying that Valve has refused to refund. They completely jumped the gun and now are desperately attempting some damage control, it's interesting to watch. I hope they learned from this to not make factual claims with no actual source in the future.

and hopefully sites like Kotaku will learn how to check sources.

[Rdemption]

It doesn't matter if you pre-ordered or not. If the request for a refund has been received after the game's release date, you won't get a refund even if you pre-ordered 3 months in advance. Ofcourse there are a few rare exceptions.

[Royas]

False advertising it illegal in most countries

Does their ToS lie beyond the law? I thought I read that Valve has to obey the laws in the countries they are offering their services to, does that mean they have to give me a refund?

No it does not. Technically, since they are the retailer, if there was any misrepresentation of the product, they are responsible. Getting them to own up to it is a different matter. They, like most other digital companies, will hide behind their TOS like it means something compared to consumer protection laws. Getting them to own up to it would likely require legal action, something most people aren't going to do for the cost of a game.

In this particular case, the right thing to do would be to refund the money and then go after Ubisoft like a rabid pit bull. We'll see if they do the right thing, or if short term money is more important to Valve than long term customer satisfaction.

[A.I.D.E.N]

I sent them this:

Also Steam support staff.

Dissemination of false advertisements
(a) Unlawfulness
It shall be unlawful for any person, partnership, or corporation to disseminate, or cause to be disseminated, any false advertisement—
(1) By United States mails, or in or having an effect upon commerce, by any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly the purchase of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics; or
(2) By any means, for the purpose of inducing, or which is likely to induce, directly or indirectly, the purchase in or having an effect upon commerce, of food, drugs, devices, services, or cosmetics.
(b) Unfair or deceptive act or practice
The dissemination or the causing to be disseminated of any false advertisement within the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce within the meaning of section 45 of this title.

Lets see you run from this.

[mothmanex]

Tried getting the refund but wasn't successful, the game is so bad that I can not even see the damn menu...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiBdrapdLhc

[wwolf1024]

tried to get a refund as well and was rejected. 1st reply was copy and paste job that says they won't refund money ever after a game is released. 2nd reply said my complaint had been forwarded to appropriate people but still rejected (this is after I threatend to cancel my other pre-orders). In short they are not giving refunds, the only people I have seen confirm a refund did so BEFORE the game was released. You can cancel pre-orders no problem.

Anyways this whole thing has reminded me why I avoided pre-orders for so long. 1st line buyers are the ones that screwed when something goes wrong. So I'm going back to playing it safe and will stop pre-ordering games, from Steam at least.

[Polendino]

Got a canned response. I iterated that they had an obligation to deal with my issue as I had a case that could potentially be brought to court in Australia.

If they reject me again, I'm complaining to the Consumer and Commission Tribunal.

[Hawkbit]

I was denied twice now. It's a shame, I've bought just about every PC purchase in the last few years from them. Not saying I'll never buy again, but I'll just shop around now.

They guaranteed lost my Deus Ex sale, which will be going to PS3 now. Kinda sad, all over $14.99 and a lie.

[mriguy]

Why are people mad at Steam? If you installed, downloaded, or played the game you need to take it up with Ubisoft. Steam will not eat the cost. Get angry at Ubisoft not Steam.

If you preordered and did not download or activate the game you have a fairly good chance of getting a refund. Understand that Steam does not have to do it. Their official policy is that preorder refunds are not applicable after the release date and if you did not open a ticket immediately after discovering the problem you probably don't have a good chance.

Ubisoft could fix the problem by honoring their original DRM promise (or removing it) and patching the game for better PC support. I actually thought Ubisoft was finally coming to their senses by adapting an activation on installation only policy.

Ubisoft should just concentrate on game design and development and leave the DRM, patching and community features to Steamworks. I see no DRM complaints about R.U.S.E.

[Avetea]

At least I got a different message this time :/
I sent a valid, well thought out, ticket showing that I have the right to get a refund.

Hello,

We will be unable to assist you with this request.

We do value feedback from the Steam community. Your comments have been forwarded on to the appropriate department.

If you wish to share an opinion or suggestion with the community as well, please visit the Suggestions/Ideas section of the Steam Forums, found here:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15

This forum is regularly read by Valve's development team.

You can contact Ubisoft Support to resolve technical issues you may be having with this game.

http://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7487-WYOP-4456

I was searching around on the internet and came across this page. http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item1290 Under Federal Trade Commission Statement Correct me if i'm wrong but that sounds correct to me. The only this is that the ftc.gov site seems to be down.. of course -.-

[mothmanex]

Why are people mad at Steam? If you installed, downloaded, or played the game you need to take it up with Ubisoft. Steam will not eat the cost. Get angry at Ubisoft not Steam.

If you preordered and did not download or activate the game you have a fairly good chance of getting a refund. Understand that Steam does not have to do it. Their official policy is that preorder refunds are not applicable after the release date and if you did not open a ticket immediately after discovering the problem you probably don't have a good chance.

Ubisoft could fix the problem by honoring their original DRM promise (or removing it) and patching the game for better PC support. I actually thought Ubisoft was finally coming to their senses by adapting an activation on installation only policy.

Ubisoft should just concentrate on game design and development and leave the DRM, patching and community features to Steamworks. I see no DRM complaints about R.U.S.E.

First ticket I sent I haven't even played the game (pre-ordered), and they gave me the copy-paste response.

[mriguy]

First ticket I sent I haven't even played the game (pre-ordered), and they gave me the copy-paste response.

Did you install or download the game?

[Kryptogod]

Not really sure about you guys but with all this "im going to sue these people" you have to realize that you're not gonna get a penny trying to do so.

Last time i checked a forum manager promising you something does not equal Ubisoft promising you anything. So lose the false idea of you thinking you're going to win and just accept the fact that you payed money for something without doing proper research and suck it up.

[Polodox]

It not about suing for myself it is the principle of the matter. Ubisoft allowed for erroneous information to enter the marketplace. Resulting in people purchasing a product which they would not have otherwise. They have many opportunities to correct their information which they only corrected after the fact.

Beyond that this is a opportunity to get governments to create real software laws in regards to DRM and return policy.

I have no intention of suing but complain to the government I will.

[Kryptogod]

But you cannot excuse the ignorance of people and reward them for it. If for example i go out and say Taco bell's meat is 100% pure beef and you go and find out its not you cant go sue taco bell for my statement.


Dont get me wrong however it was a shady move for ubisoft itself to not say anything about it and i in no means support DRM as its a pain in the ♥♥♥.

[fxu]

If you didn't download the game nor played, Steam can give you the refund.

If you downloaded it and/or played it, you won't get it.

Source: my friends who were part of the former.

[Raven1417]

Did you install or download the game?

I didn't download or install it and I got the copy paste response.

However I sent a response back to them stating that the conditions under which I pre-ordered the game were changed upon release and without any prior notification and that the change in DRM means it's not actually the same product I pre-ordered and that I would like a refund because of this.

[Reebdoog]

Why are people mad at Steam? If you installed, downloaded, or played the game you need to take it up with Ubisoft. Steam will not eat the cost. Get angry at Ubisoft not Steam.

It's the same as if I buy it retail. I take it to the place I bought it from and get a refund, they then take it up with the publisher.

[Polodox]

Thing is the option or choice of refusing to not install was not given to most as this information only became known after the installation. It is not a question of whether or not I installed the game it is the principle of the matter. (which I obviously did)

this leave us only 1 recourse to reform the policies of both Ubisoft and Steam by means of the Federal government. Digital Distribution is a relatively new thing so it is able to move around laws that exist.

I actually checked for information about the DRM well in advance of the purchase of this title.

Even if my complaint falls on deaf ears I must do so in order to make it clear that these practices are wrong. (by the way I am in no means angry at steam in and of itself but as a merchant of services is accountable for the services it provides whether it likes it or not.

[chilinux]

Why is the "System Requirements" still not updated for this game?

The information of "3rd-party DRM: Ubisoft Online Service" is overly vague. It is even been stated that what exactly this is has been mischaracterized on the Unisoft official forums.

If every launch of the game requires Internet access then that is an additional **System Requirement**. I can have a system which fits EVERY single one of the *STATED* system requirements from OS all the way down to peripherals and the game still won't play as long as there is no internet connection at the time of play.

Instead, Steam has put this critical system requirement into an area marked by CSS as "game_area_legal" with a DARK GRAY (color code #3c3d3e) on BLACK. To put this into prospective, the W3C Web Content Accessibility Guildelines (WCAG 2.0) recommends not having a contrast ratio for text that is less than 3:1 while the "game_area_legal" text has a contrast ratio of 1.9:1.

So, not only is Steam STILL (as of Aug 19) not providing a complete set of system requirements for the game--but the only notification provided is in a form that does meet guidelines for readability. This is both figuratively and LITERALLY a SHADY way of doing business!

[AsciiAficionado]

I got the copy/paste response

[timmyisme22]

Dual copy paste with slight alteration on the second.


Just wondering, who had "Thomas" for tech support? I seem to see him with most of the screen-shots of peoples messages... intern maybe? It is a mass copy paste reply XD

[Raven1417]

I had Thomas as well.

[sgtsxe]

I sent a level-headed, non ragey request to steam, and got the standard canned reply from Thomas. This was my response, still waiting on a reply. I doubt they'll miss my £300-odd a year custom too much, but it's a start

"Thank you for your reply

It is a very disapointing state of affairs when the loyalty of a long-term customer is worth £11.99. This game runs like an absolute dog, and I am not the type of gamer who thinks that waiting for a patch is an acceptable state of affairs, especially given Ubisoft's abysmal record. If this had been a physical retail copy I would have no problems returning it for either false advertising or poor quality. It seems that you think your obligations to consumers and to the law are void due to the fact you distribute through a download service rather than from a store. Just having your own "Steam Subscriber Agreement" does not override the consumer laws in countries you operate in.

It saddens me to say that I will be no longer purchasing games through Steam, and will rely on Amazon for PC Games from now on. Valve could come out of this with good PR to last years if you were to do the right thing by buyers of From Dust. I have played every Valve game since the uplink demo over a decade ago, and will continue to buy and enjoy them. But I will no longer buy any game through steam.

Thank you"

UPDATE - I have recieved a refund from steam, great news

[ParadiseDecay]

Why are people mad at Steam? If you installed, downloaded, or played the game you need to take it up with Ubisoft. Steam will not eat the cost. Get angry at Ubisoft not Steam.

If you preordered and did not download or activate the game you have a fairly good chance of getting a refund. Understand that Steam does not have to do it. Their official policy is that preorder refunds are not applicable after the release date and if you did not open a ticket immediately after discovering the problem you probably don't have a good chance.

Ubisoft could fix the problem by honoring their original DRM promise (or removing it) and patching the game for better PC support. I actually thought Ubisoft was finally coming to their senses by adapting an activation on installation only policy.

Ubisoft should just concentrate on game design and development and leave the DRM, patching and community features to Steamworks. I see no DRM complaints about R.U.S.E.

But UBIsoft are telling us to get the refund from Steam.

[Atonnis]

I have two approaches I'm going to take with FD on Steam and it's blatant misrepresentation.

Firstly I'm cancelling my other preorders on Steam. I'll go out and get games like Deus Ex: Revolution from a place that will allow me to return it.

Secondly, I am curious as to whether the laws in the UK, which clearly state that any product purchased over the internet can be returned within 14 days, apply here. It is a statutory right that cannot be overridden by any 'terms and conditions'.

EDIT: I checked up and UK Law states:

•you must be given clear information about the goods or services before you buy

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/Situationsthatcanchangeyourconsumerrights/DG_183048

The Steam store page, which I screenshotted, clearly does not state that a system requirement is an always-running internet connection, or an account with a 3rd-party provider (Ubisoft). In fact, there is no clear information as regards to this requirement.

Personally, I haven't even yet started the game, so I can also declare the product to be 'technically unsealed'. Steam can prove that I haven't run the game for any length of time.

[Netarangii]

This game is ♥♥♥♥in' ♥♥♥♥. Piece of ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥in' DRM.

[Twoframes]

In Norway, we have 14 days where you have the choice to withdraw the purchase.

We also have the right to withdraw a purchase if it is not up to the standards the seller were saying it was.

Sorry for my English, but is it not required for Steam to respect the laws before they are allowed to have their services in other countries? Their not over the law, but they sure are acting like it.

Just sent my fourth complaint about the refund to Steam. Got EXACTLY the same answers you guys got - copypaste ftw.

Waiting reply on my fourth. If they still decline, I'll talk to the consumer council in Norway.

[ParadiseDecay]

I had Ronald, but also a copy and paste job.

No reply yet from my 2nd response.

[Polodox]

Twoframes go to your local council.

[awsometeeth]

steam have become awful about refunds where they should legitimately do so. someone will need to take this further as they are not listening to us any more.

[Twoframes]

Twoframes go to your local council.

Hi!

Yeah, I just sent them an email! Waiting for a reply now. :)

[Cruiser]

But UBIsoft are telling us to get the refund from Steam.

And they are right to do so. Steam sold the game to us, so they are the ones you have a contract with. Steam should be refunding the game and then chasing Ubisoft for the money.

[Dethstar]

I hope this comes down on Ubisoft's head and it's not just Steam shouldering the burden of cleaning up the mess. Hopefully Ubisoft's lies regarding the DRM is some sort of breach that Steam can go after them for to cover costs associated with refunds.

Agree. If they lied to us I am sure they lied to Steam as well. The measure of Steam's integrity will be if they provide a refund without people having to take action to force the issue. Legally, (at least in the UK) our contract is with steam not Ubisoft. That much is clear under the sale of goods act.

[Polodox]

Here is a summary of how we all feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkL-w1lDY2c&feature=youtu.be

[City Builder]

I just put in for a refund - I'm leaving for Afghanistan in 3 weeks and I won't be able to even play the game >.>

Regardless of the outcome, I'm never buying a Ubi game again. I was very skeptical about this purchase and it looks like it could backfire right in my face. . .

New Headline?

UBIsoft takes advantage of Our men and women in the U.S. Military.

[AsciiAficionado]

My copy/paste refund denial was from Thomas as well.

[chilinux]

While it's not steams fault...

I don't see how it is not Steam's fault. As of today (Aug 20), the system requirements on the Steam store are STILL not correct. If I need an internet connection to just start the game, then that is a SYSTEM REQUIREMENT. Instead, Steam allow Ubisoft to game the system by throwing it in the legal section. Then Steam compounds the problem by setting the text gray level so low for the legal section that the contrast ratio violates the W3C WCAG 2.0 for readability. Why is it that a statement on laptop video card not being supported isn't also just a "legal" item but still part of the system requirement? Why is it that a machine that meets all of the stated system requirements (of which Internet access is NOT a stated system requirement) and still not be able to start the game?

Ubisoft knew this DRM method would impact sales so they purposely left the terms of the DRM vague. When it came time to inform the customer of the terms of the DRM, they put that information in a non-standard darkened location of the store page. And Steam is continuing to let them get away with it.

People have pointed out because of the low price of the game, it is hard to feel bad for those that got cheated. I think they are missing the point and singling this out as an individual event. If this is left uncorrected, then I see this as a method that distributors will use to game the customer again in the future. This isn't about if people lost $15 now. It is about if Steam can be trusted in the future.

Here is the message that Valve is sending by not correcting the From Dust system requirements:

- Valve is inherently warning customers to stop pre-ordering games as the marketing material can't be trusted. Even when the system requirements are incorrect, the customer can not always expect them to be corrected or a patch to be provided to bring the game into compliance with the stated system requirement.

- Valve is inherently warning customers to only buy games if they review every single word on the store page for the game (even the darken text) because the customer should not expect all of the system requirements to be consolidated in one specific area.

- Value/Ubisoft is inherently sending the message that illegit methods of getting the game provide a better experience for people only interested in offline gaming.

- As stories continue to come out that Ubisoft's own online distribution store is offering refunds, Valve is inherently sending the message that it is better to go with a distributor's own store than Steam.

Each of these are messages that Steam should not be implying to it's customers! And it isn't just the people that got ripped off by a single $15 game that suffer. One of the most interesting thing about Steam is what it provides to independent game distributors. Once people learn that Steams policies are one sided when distributors game the customers, then as people move away from Steam to other forms of getting the game then I believe it will be independent game distributors that will suffer the most from this.

[Atonnis]

I believe Steam/Valve may have to be very careful as to how they handle this situation.

Steam relies on being a platform whose digital distribution and non-intrusive DRM makes it easier for their users than being bothered to go out and buy a boxed edition.

Now that shops like Game are delivering on release day (and in some cases a day or two before) the last thing Steam/Valve should let happen is that their platform becomes recognised firstly for delivering a product that does not work, is misrepresented, and has intrusive and annoying extra DRM. Secondly they really don't want to start dismissing their customers and their concerns over a £12 game when said customers will start cancelling preorders for other games and start going elsewhere for their game shopping needs.

I know that if my query gets dismissed casually without a refund I will be cancelling my Deus Ex Revolution preorder and getting it from somewhere else...and Steam will steadily only become a platform I use for playing historical purchases and not new ones.

A poster at my workplace says 'If we don't take care of the customer, someone else will'. Well, this is Steam's chance to take care of the customer.

BTW, this morning I was riled, I'm not anymore. I'm now just ready to vote with my feet.

[AsciiAficionado]

Title of this thread needs to be changed.

[Ardbug]

A poster at my workplace says 'If we don't take care of the customer, someone else will'. Well, this is Steam's chance to take care of the customer.

Yeah if Steam had done the right thing and refunded what is obviously a bait and switch scam, they would have gained so much goodwill and trust with their customers, I will buy boxed games now, except for indies and oldies.

[AsciiAficionado]

Yeah if Steam had done the right thing and refunded what is obviously a bait and switch scam, they would have gained so much goodwill and trust with their customers, I will buy boxed games now, except for indies and oldies.

Buying a boxed copy would be just as useless, since most stores don't allow you to return software that has it's own unique cd key/serial.

[light487]

Well I got told that Steam never refunds unless it was a pre-order and I cancelled before it was released. Never. To "never" refund is against the law in this country.. but I'm not going to spend hours finding the specific phrasing in the law to get my $15AUD back.. just couldn't be bothered. Instead, I'll vote with my wallet next time Ubi releases a game and not buy it. I've already stopped buying Assassins Creed franchise.. there are plenty of other great games that Ubi don't make.

[outtro_stats_do]

Don't just do nothing, at least write a quick complaint to the ACCC: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/815323

You may think nothing will come of it, but there will be a permanent record you complained.

[sashimi_fr]

shiit, didn't know about all this, and sadly discovered this damn ubisoft DRM on first launch after downloading/installing the game through steam.

It is totally out of the question that I create a online ubisoft drm account, and it is OUT OF THE QUESTION this phone-home intrusive DRM stays any longer on my computer. Either I get a refund from steam, either I find a way to get rid of this damn malware.

[OccamsRazor]

this is a text book case of why I will never pre-order a game. I could care less about a unique gun or hat. Wait until it comes out and assess the quality and specs then. It sucks that Steam is basically ♥♥♥♥♥ing out, but they had to have known about the DRM issue before release. Dont let them fool you, this DRM issue is not news to Steam.

That aside, I feel guilty because I am primarily a console gamer (80% 360, 20% PC/Mac). But I am not wearing rose shaded glasses at all. Consoles are ruining the gaming experience. So much money is generated from them that companies can afford to flip the middle finger that the OG PC crowd and get away with it financially. Its disgusting. This is just another case of that happening. Be thankful its $15, and not a full retail price. But learn from this and dont waste you money pre-ordering from Steam

[Royas]

Not really sure about you guys but with all this "im going to sue these people" you have to realize that you're not gonna get a penny trying to do so.

Last time i checked a forum manager promising you something does not equal Ubisoft promising you anything. So lose the false idea of you thinking you're going to win and just accept the fact that you payed money for something without doing proper research and suck it up.

He represents the company. He made a statement. Consumer took his statement on good faith. Said statement was, by the admission of same forum manager, passed on to be posted. It was, by any reasonable definition of the term, a representation of the product.

Therefore, it is false advertising and possibly fraud. End of sentence, period. And if Valve allowed anything on their site without correct information, they may be just as liable as the retailer.

[Polodox]

This is more than just a forum post.

According to Giant Bomb they recieved a email from a spokesmen from Ubisoft on july 28th.

Up until today, we were under the impression From Dust wasn't supposed to have DRM. Just a few weeks back--my email from Ubisoft is dated July 28--the company said From Dust would be an exception to the always-on Ubisoft DRM rule.

"I can confirm that From Dust will not require online connection to play the single player campaign and challenges," said company spokesperson Alex Monney.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/from-dust-drm-and-why-ubisoft-can-only-blame-itself/3602/

[RavN]

Ubisoft is notoriously full of it and that quote proves it. That is basically custumer fraud IMO. I am still not sure why steam does not allow refunds on games? I think you should be able to refund after a few days for a small surcharge to prevent abuse.

In the giantbomb article I found it amusing UBI said their DRM has cut down piracy while all their games are cracked for single player at least. Sounds like an obvious corporate line to me!:cool:

[Kran De Loy]

Anyone else notice that the Steam's store page system requirements didn't get updated with the video card list or the bit about laptops being excluded until some time between the night of the 18th and the morning of the 19th?

Personally I've already given up on the whole issue because I already spent close to 4 hours looking up legal information to try and get my $15 back. It's just not worth the time when the only person that will benefit from it is myself.

Instead I would rather put that time to use by spreading the word about this incident.

[PlayerOne{TS}]

Don't buy anymore Ubisoft games. They don't deserve our patronage.

[ChocoBalls]

This is a sad state of affairs, and it only adds to my growing disgust with the PC gaming industry.

Ubisoft needs to step up and start offering direct refunds to people who request them.

Steam needs to step up as a retailer and offer refunds to people who request them.

If neither Ubi or Steam are willing to show a proper response, gamers need to step up and boycott Ubisoft, and if necessary, Steam. Unfortunately, that will never happen. Ubisoft has been getting away with this kind of crap for a long time, and despite all that, gamers still refuse to stand by their laurels and actually stop buying Ubi games. Steam has always had a bad habit of denying refunds for any reason except for pre-orders, yet affected gamers continue to buy their games from Steam. We all let this happen, and it will continue to happen until consumers act a little more responsibly and actually do something about this abusive behavior.

Money talks, bull♥♥♥♥ walks.

As for myself, I'm proud to say that I haven't purchased an Ubisoft game in over three years. THQ, Activision, and Blizzard are also on my list now. Companies that don't offer proper consumer support don't deserve my money.

[Raven1417]

Buying a boxed copy would be just as useless, since most stores don't allow you to return software that has it's own unique cd key/serial.

Actually most stores do. Normally it's a 7 day grace period.

[aelp]

yeah i wish i had known before i bought it that ubi♥♥♥♥ had their finger all over it

asked for a refund and got denied :(

[Atonnis]

I received the cut-n-paste reply of:

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement

We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded.

Technical support for this title is handled by a third party support department - please follow the instructions below to contact the support provider to troubleshoot this issue:

---

I replied with:

Your terms and conditions do not override the statutory right of any UK citizen to return a product that was sold under misrepresentation. If you do not adhere to UK Law please inform me, if you believe you do adhere to UK Law please inform me. This way I can call my local Member of Parliament to look into the practices of Steam in the UK.

If you do not adhere to UK Law and will not refund me on a product I have not used despite it being within the 14-day period that covers any purchase made over the internet being refundable, please cancel my order for Deus Ex Revolution and refund my money immediately. This is unacceptable practice by any UK retailer and will not be ignored.

[Atonnis]

It seems to me that's it! Recommended to see here! Shopping discount http://is.gd/vMkQ29

Oh F**K Off, spammer. We want our money back from Steam, not some c**t like you interfering in our threads.

[HahaButts]

When I first messaged them I got the copied and pasted response which everyone has gotten about refunds only for pre-orders etc. I then responded with the appropriate sections of and links to the Sales of Goods Act, the Misrepresentation Act and the Unfair Contract Terms Act and explained why I thought I was entitled to a refund, all I got in reply was;

Hello,

We will be unable to assist you with this request.

We do value feedback from the Steam community. Your comments have been forwarded on to the appropriate department.

Then some links to the forums and they closed the question so I could not reply. Now under UK law if they have fallen foul of one of these acts I am entitled to a refund within 30 days but I have no idea if I will actually recieve a reply to my question now or if this "forwarded on to the appropriate department" means what I assume it does (that I have been ignored).

Was hoping I'd at least get a response to my question explaining why they thought they do not have to refund me and not fobbed off like this.

[Polodox]

It probably means it was forwarded to a legal group of some sort. I think both Ubisoft and Valve know they have run afoul of governmental law there is probably a lot of legal work going on in the background preparing defenses in civil suits.

A governmental suit however is not something they can fight. However the question is how quickly can the government react?

[Atonnis]

It probably means it was forwarded to a legal group of some sort. I think both Ubisoft and Valve know they have run afoul of governmental law there is probably a lot of legal work going on in the background preparing defenses in civil suits.

A governmental suit however is not something they can fight. However the question is how quickly can the government react?

That and they will need to decide exactly what is in their best interests. Is the small amount refunded for a poorly delivered game that was presented under false pretences, pretences that everyone blames Ubisoft for, better than losing the money and respect Steam will themselves for siding with the scummy Ubisoft and their scam. They'll likely think it's just normal buyers rage over one product that everyone will forget about when the next game comes out.

Personally, other than the Assassin's Creed series, which I'm already invested in, I will not be buying another Ubisoft game. If Steam continue to deny my request for a refund it's also Steam's games I will no longer be purchasing.

The upshot is that the games companies won't feel the sting, as people will continue buying games from them. Steam will feel the sting as they will steadily loses purchases once it becomes widespread knowledge that their system is steadily becoming worthless...unless they start protecting and supporting their customers first.

[Polodox]

I have an easier answer for you to rent assassins creed for consoles. Costs you 5 bucks and ubisoft gets nothing. If you have to buy get it second hand at gamestop or some such place. Either way you win :)

If Ubisoft removes the DRM I will be happy to keep the game. The DRM is what I object to mainly.

[Atonnis]

It probably means it was forwarded to a legal group of some sort. I think both Ubisoft and Valve know they have run afoul of governmental law there is probably a lot of legal work going on in the background preparing defenses in civil suits.

A governmental suit however is not something they can fight. However the question is how quickly can the government react?

I have an easier answer for you to rent assassins creed for consoles. Costs you 5 bucks and ubisoft gets nothing. If you have to buy get it second hand at gamestop or some such place. Either way you win :)

If Ubisoft removes the DRM I will be happy to keep the game. The DRM is what I object to mainly.

True. Although I admit I'm on the minority side as I don't like second-hand sales...but that's a whole different debate we should stay away from in this discussion - let's not cloud the issue at hand. Even second-hand sales for that product cannot take place if people aren't buying it in the first place.

[Talcon]

Solution: Boycott Ubisoft

[RustyFirePlace]

it's funny how people (like me) who paid 15 euro or whatever currency get a worse version than the people who pirated.

I'll be going for TPB version of Ubi games in future, coming from a guy who has played pc games for 15+ years and never pirating anything.

go ♥♥♥♥ yourself ubisoft, bunch of thieves and ♥♥♥♥s.

[Twoframes]

In three
two ...
one ...

[Herodotus07]

According to the following article, Steam IS offering a refund:

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/14015/valve-offering-from-dust-refunds-over-drm-flap

[Atonnis]

According to the following article, Steam IS offering a refund:

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/14015/valve-offering-from-dust-refunds-over-drm-flap

That information was taken from the Lo-Ping website, whose report of refunds being given have been proven false by many of us in this forum. We're being refused.

[OriginalSyn]

Solution: Boycott Ubisoft

QFT... I was boycotting Ubisoft when they announced this DRM for AC2, now I have a $15 reminder why I shouldn't have trusted them, classic bait and switch, it disappoints me that Valve is complacent in this rip off.

[l4nd0fc0nfu510n]

I'm glad I tried this before buying. I didn't end up buying it.