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1_Kris_1
08-30-2011, 08:32 PM
hay, steam.

you know how you have you achievement system i was going to say when you unlock an achievement there is really no point.. in it.. so i was just thinking for the next update could you add a gamer score or some like the xbox360 gamers score that goes with the achievements so when you unlock an achievement it will show a score or something so you can show off your gamer score with your friends. just thought you could put the achievements to good use


Kris.

Scared
08-30-2011, 08:41 PM
How does adding a score make achievements any less pointless?

It would be good to have a better aggregate of achievements earned on someones community page so we can see how many someone has just by quickly looking.

1_Kris_1
08-30-2011, 08:49 PM
yeah ill agree on that just that seems like a good idea just thougth it would be something to share with friends or something.. thats all

Cedge
08-30-2011, 09:02 PM
It's probably not going to happen.

The reason for this is because, unlike Xbox 360, the achievements system on Steam isn't rigidly standardized. On the 360, all games have the same number of achievements and gamerpoints. On Steam, some games have 4 achievements, and some have nearly 400. It would be impossible to fairly assign point values to all of them.

Yes, you don't get a gamerscore to boast about, but the variety that the Steam achievement systems offers is, in my opinion, well worth the trade-off (I enjoy achievements, but I really, really don't care about Gamerscore).

Shelton
08-30-2011, 09:11 PM
I don't care too much about Steam achievements, I care a lot about my 360 achievements though. One thing that I would like to see for Steam achievements is some sort of noise being played when you have unlocked one. TF2 has cheering (which is great), but that's the only instance I know of where sound is played. As it is at the moment, it's just sort of there. It pops up without any fanfare and then disappears.

Shiny-Crowbar
08-30-2011, 09:24 PM
Achievements are not pointless because they are pointless. They are pointless because they are not interesting. An achievement should not award you for playing the game and undertaking the tasks beset upon you already. But they should promote the experimentation of gameplay and exploration of levels. Long as there are achievements like 'kill <insert a number of very common enemy can be found within the game here>' exists, there can be no point in achieving it.

One example would be the Fallout NV. You get achievement for doing the major quests. Seriously what the hell? You are already bound to do them. How about giving me some commendation on my epic journey in which I either become a hero or a villain doing holy and unholy things to suspecting or unsuspecting victims could be found within the game? And they all should be hidden as well. Do that and I shall award you is rather stupid. Again axes off the experimentation.

But of course, this will never happen and whatever I'm talking here will be buried within the ion dusts of spuf database.

PELUXA1
08-30-2011, 09:29 PM
hay, steam.

you know how you have you achievement system i was going to say when you unlock an achievement there is really no point.. in it.. so i was just thinking for the next update could you add a gamer score or some like the xbox360 gamers score that goes with the achievements so when you unlock an achievement it will show a score or something so you can show off your gamer score with your friends. just thought you could put the achievements to good use


Kris.


Someone already posted about this a while ago... and my point of view is still the same.

So the answer is a big NO!





But of course, this will never happen and whatever I'm talking here will be buried within the ion dusts of spuf database.


I agree with you! the BEST part of your essay!

Goteki-45
08-30-2011, 09:44 PM
How does adding a score make achievements any less pointless?

It would be good to have a better aggregate of achievements earned on someones community page so we can see how many someone has just by quickly looking.

The SteamStats (http://dev.zr40.nl/steam/) website both assigns a point score as well as gives an aggregate view of all achievements.

It would be interesting for some sort of aggregate view to come native to the Steam community page, though part of me worries about any official "score" attached to achievements that would inevitably result in unnecessary elitism while playing multiplayer.

Skaery
08-31-2011, 02:15 AM
The SteamStats (http://dev.zr40.nl/steam/) website both assigns a point score as well as gives an aggregate view of all achievements.

It would be interesting for some sort of aggregate view to come native to the Steam community page, though part of me worries about any official "score" attached to achievements that would inevitably result in unnecessary elitism while playing multiplayer.
Other sides include
http://wonders.mine.nu/astats/
http://steam.jsarabians.com/steam/Lookup.aspx
http://steamachievementhunters.com/

Soupias
08-31-2011, 02:46 AM
Achievements are interesting for me and I always try to go after them. I even look if a game have achievements when making buying decisions. Apart from that, I would have to agree with some points made earlier.

They have to try to make more clever / meaningful achievements. I mean ok, having them awarded for completing basic parts of the game does not serve much purpose except looking the global achievemnts page and finding out how many people have reached at what level of completion. Sometimes it provides interesting stuff... like a game I was looking that (do not remember which) that only 65% had finished the 1st level. which means that 35% have bought but actually never played the title.

Also they have to come up with a way to make achievements more meaningful and relevant. A gamerscore is a way but I would prefer something else.

haharofl
08-31-2011, 02:49 AM
Oh! It's this thread again! :eek:

1. Please use search.
2. Use Suggestion/Ideas forum for suggestions.

GirlPower23
08-31-2011, 02:50 AM
hay, steam.

you know how you have you achievement system i was going to say when you unlock an achievement there is really no point.. in it.. so i was just thinking for the next update could you add a gamer score or some like the xbox360 gamers score that goes with the achievements so when you unlock an achievement it will show a score or something so you can show off your gamer score with your friends. just thought you could put the achievements to good use


Kris.

What does a pointless gamer score do? A Gamer score is as pointless as the achievement, except for self gratification.

Pikazul
08-31-2011, 02:56 AM
One example would be the Fallout NV. You get achievement for doing the major quests. Seriously what the hell? You are already bound to do them.


To be honest these achievement are there just for data mining purposes "how many people finished the game" "how many people took this path" "where people had the most difficulties" etc. They would be there no matter how much "purposeful achievement" the developer wants to add because they provide unbiased feedback on the game without any sneaky invisible online communication between the game and the developer.


Also, no, I really don't think that we need more encouragement for the people that takes games and gaming skill way too seriously.

Insanic1
08-31-2011, 03:08 AM
games are pointless, they are not even real, its all in a virtual world just a waste of time, POINTLESS i tell you


Sorry but to some of us, getting achievements in games and knowing that 100% of the game is completed does serve a purpose and through achievements there is a representation of it.

Pikazul
08-31-2011, 03:23 AM
games are pointless, they are not even real, its all in a virtual world just a waste of time, POINTLESS i tell you


Sorry but to some of us, getting achievements in games and knowing that 100% of the game is completed does serve a purpose and through achievements there is a representation of it.

If you think that games are pointless I respect your opinion but I have to disagree, games are a form of art and entertainment and thus have a very real and important purpose.

What I think is insane is the thought that games are so universally important, not as a form of entertainment but as a personal skill, that you can actually brag about having a "bigger gamer score" and that having spent more time on games makes you a better, smarter, more sophisticated person than those who didn't. I really don't think this line of thinking should be encouraged.

Remember that we are not talking about Achievements (against which I have nothing) but about systems like gamerscores which only serve the purpose to more easily brag about them.

brisse96
08-31-2011, 04:27 AM
achievements is just a fun thing to have ;P

Blue Thunder
08-31-2011, 07:35 AM
just thought you could put the achievements to good use

lolwut? achievements do already have a quite good use...
Adding additional gameplay time by the challenges the user has to do so he/she obtains them. You can already show off just with that... no need for anything else.

Travis182
08-31-2011, 11:32 AM
Some of you are surprisingly threatened by the idea of a gamerscore. I liked the idea when microsoft came up with it and I like it now. Maybe steam shouldn't emphasize the score like xbox does but there are ways steam could further enhance how achievements are displayed in one's profile. Right now they don't have as big a role as i'd like to see.

xX_Rip_Fang_Xx
09-01-2011, 09:00 AM
Personally I love the way Steam has achievements set up. For Xbox gamers, gamerscore is basically the measure of time spent, and the number of games you've played. It is in no way a measure of skill. My buddy has a gamerscore of 10k, but he has like 150 something games... Steam is set up to compare each individual game. No total score.

But I still feel like achievements don't really mean anything. There are tons of super easy achievements (yay! I beat the tutorial!!) and there are super epic moments that aren't on the preset list of epic things to do (I totally just killed 50 people in mid-air with a single snipershot to an explosive barrel that launched a buzz-saw blade off a 2x4 catapult and decapitated an entire room)...granted...that last one probably can't happen in any game ever, but I think it illustrates my point.

Teh_Guy
09-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Also they have to come up with a way to make achievements more meaningful and relevant. A gamerscore is a way but I would prefer something else.

If I slap a number on a cake I don't think it becomes any more relevant.
Sticking numbers on a "you took 3 steps" sort of achievement, then there still is no point to it. Which is why I agreed to parts of this:
Achievements are not pointless because they are pointless. They are pointless because they are not interesting. An achievement should not award you for playing the game and undertaking the tasks beset upon you already. But they should promote the experimentation of gameplay and exploration of levels. Long as there are achievements like 'kill <insert a number of very common enemy can be found within the game here>' exists, there can be no point in achieving it.

Adding additional gameplay time by the challenges the user has to do so he/she obtains them
again, not when the majority is stuff like "you completed the first level, have 1K points" When it's stuff like
I totally just killed 50 people in mid-air with a single snipershot to an explosive barrel that launched a buzz-saw blade off a 2x4 catapult and decapitated an entire room
then I find them to be worthwhile

iSmile
09-01-2011, 11:55 PM
hay, steam.

you know how you have you achievement system i was going to say when you unlock an achievement there is really no point.. in it.. so i was just thinking for the next update could you add a gamer score or some like the xbox360 gamers score that goes with the achievements so when you unlock an achievement it will show a score or something so you can show off your gamer score with your friends. just thought you could put the achievements to good use


Kris.

hay, kris.

Your sentence makes no sense.

1_Kris_1
09-02-2011, 04:18 PM
hay, kris.

Your sentence makes no sense.

what i was trying to say is this...

However you feel about achievements, they are by far one of the largest additions to gaming that we've seen in the last decade. Achievements extend the play time on games, and give us that warm feeling inside whenever 'ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED' pops up.

I'd be the first to admit that Xbox achievements and PS3 trophies are a huge deal in my everyday gaming, and have affected by play style considerably. For example, I used to play games on either Easy or Normal difficulty, since I had no reason to test myself with Hard mode. Now the majority of games offer extra achievement points for completing the game on the toughest difficulty, and I'm more than willing to go that extra mile for another 100G.

Yet while I'm madly in love with both Xbox achievement points and PSN trophies, there is one type of achievement that doesn't interest me at all - Steam achievements. Awarded during certain PC games available via Steam, they mean absolutely nothing to me, and are really quite pointless.

There's so much wrong with Steam achievements that it's hard to know where to begin. First up, the Steam community service is such a royal mess that it's hard to know where to find your unlocked achievements in the first place! There is no single place where they are collected together, and instead you need to view your games list, then scroll down until you find the specific game you want.

Once you've found the achievements you're looking for, there's no way to measure how well you're actually doing. Steam achievements have no worth, and instead your specific game will simply state that you have unlocked X number of achievements out of a total of Y. It's not at all interesting, and doesn't make me want to jump into the game and achieve the rest.

It's also an utter pain to compare your unlocked achievements to that of a friend, and even when you finally manage to do so, it doesn't exactly make great reading, as the issue of worth rears its head again - since none of the achievements have points attached to them, you're simply looking at a string of boxes and text.

This is the main problem - there is no overall score you're supplied with. While Xbox has your gamer score, and Playstation gives you a level based on your trophies, Steam doesn't bother with anything. Hence, you have nothing to show for your hard work, and no total score to feel all warm and fuzzy over.

It doesn't help that Steam achievements aren't available on the majority of games. While both Microsoft and Sony make it mandatory for developers to implement achievements and trophies in their games, Valve doesn't push this feature, meaning the majority of games don't even have anything to unlock. When only a handful of games on the service actually use the achievement system, is there really any point in it at all?

In all fairness, Steam does have one decent feature in the achievements department - the ability to check out global statistics. Checking which achievements have been unlocked by players of the game and which are rarities is enjoyable reading, and it's clever that you're also able to compare your own achievements to the global totals.

Other than this, the entire system just feels utterly hopeless and in dire need of a reboot. Steam has a huge userbase, and it's essential that it provides proper achievements that players will actually want to engage with. Achievements not only prolong the life of a game but also act as an extra selling point when a player is considering a purchase.

The following steps need to be taken. Firstly, the 'Steam Rating', which is currently based on how many hours you've played in the last two weeks (and is yet another completely pointless feature) needs to be replaced by an achievement score, based on how many achievements a player has unlocked. This way friends will be able to visit your Steam profile and see how skilled you are (or simply how many games you've got!).

Valve then need to push the bigger developers to include Steam achievements with their games. It would be silly to ask every single developer to include achievements, as this would potentially put smaller indie outfits off releasing their games via Steam. However, huge releases happen on Steam all the time, and every single one of these should come with achievements, no exceptions.

As it stands, there is no real reason to care at all about Steam achievements, and in fact you'll find that certain gamers will buy a multi-format game on a console rather than PC just so they can bag the achievements available. Surely this is reason enough for Valve to make the necessary changes to their currently broken system.

http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/blog/5951/achievements.PNG

the full stroy:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MichaelRose/20100910/5951/Whats_the_Point_of_Steam_Achievements_Anyway.php

JupiterSWarrior
09-02-2011, 04:51 PM
A quick search brought me this (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1748769). If I wanted gamer score, I'll play on my 360.