TAGES? Really???

[packetlost]

Well, another game I'll never buy, thanks for saving me the money, folks. Utilizing any kind of DRM is very off-putting, but adding TAGES with a 5 machine activation limit ( or actually ANY limit ) just makes my decision not to buy even easier. I'll just add you folks to my list of companies not to support, like UBISOFT for instance, ...ho, hum. Anyone have a recommendation on where to spend the $39.99 I would have spent on this game?

[Zombercules]

Yeah I have to admit I felt very stupid when I realized I had supported a company that implements "TAGES". It's insulting really.
Wish I could demand my money back or let Mr. Martin himself know that the game company he chose to make games based off his lore decided to tell his fans "heres your game but we don't trust you in the least you possibly dirty pirate ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s".

[Booke]

Tages is the one where, even if you do a minor upgrade like RAM or hard-drive, it'll count as another machine activation, right?

If so, thanks for the heads-up.

[tiredofpain]

To tell you the truth, I don't know what TAGES is and it doesn't actually sound like something I'd care about anyway.

What I do care about is consumers getting the shaft from this industry which seems to have a disturbingly low opinion of gamers.

I hope you find a way to get yourselves heard and get someone to take notice. You are the one with the money after all.

[mbar]

Well, another game I'll never buy, thanks for saving me the money, folks.

These people must not realize how many games I get interested in only to find out there are activation limits. Really?? Even on Steam for Pete's sake?? Or I have to have a Steam account and an account with every rinky dink developer?

There are other games that don't use TAGES or activation limits. I'm buying them instead.

I have liked Steam from day one because I can download and install games without needing disks in the drive. It's good enough for me.

[KingOfTheJuice]

It's reset every month. How many times a month do you plan on installing the same game? 2 maybe 2 times if you are having troubles. Then it resets after the month is over. It's really not intrusive at all. How many PC's are you planning to install this on BTW? Read up on the DRM before slagging this actually respectful DRM.
If you are exeeding the limit in a month you have bigger problems than this DRM. IMHO of course.

[johcar]

Why not use steam CEG instead ??????????????????????

[Vilmalith]

Tages = no buy

I'd like to thank Focus Home Interactive for saving my touchy trigger finger from the $39.99x4 purchase.

Remove Tages and I'll buy the 4 copies I was planning on buying.

[mbar]

It's reset every month. How many times a month do you plan on installing the same game? 2 maybe 2 times if you are having troubles. Then it resets after the month is over. It's really not intrusive at all. How many PC's are you planning to install this on BTW? Read up on the DRM before slagging this actually respectful DRM.
If you are exeeding the limit in a month you have bigger problems than this DRM. IMHO of course.

Are you addressing me specifically? If a game is delivered on Steam, and Steam needs to be installed in order to install and activate a game, then why does a game need another DRM layer? How much research should the average customer need to do about every unique DRM scheme before they can make an informed purchase? How many servers should the average game need to check in with before you can play your purchased product?

[tiredofpain]

How many servers should the average game need to check in with before you can play your purchased product?

Except for the fact that we aren't purchasing a product. We aren't "purchasing" anything at all. We're paying Steam for the privilege to play their games, through their site.

[MandatoryDenial]

I am with you, I almost bought it as well. I did a quick check of the DRM and I am glad I did. They can take the DRM and shove it. However if they decide to stop disrespecting their paying customers with terrible "anti piracy" (yeah right) download limits then I will definitely purchase this title.

[TazzieDevil]

Thanks for the heads up - I believe that if i buy a game on steam then i should be able to have it loaded up on my only pc with my only steam account as often as i like over as many years as i like - and as i upgrade some part of my machine at least one a year and do a re install once or twice a year - limited activations of any sort is not for me. The really sad thing about this is the pirates never have to worry, only us honest gamers who actually pay for the game...

[Shotgunmaniac]

Jesus, how often in practice does the 5 machine limit + resets/additions (I think TAGES just resets the count every 30 days for this game as stated before, but some games just give you another activation every 30/45 days) actually affect any of you significantly? Have you ever lost money because DRM stopped you from playing a game, and neither Steam nor the DRM creator no the publisher nor the developer nor possibly the 3rd party retailer could help?

Sincerely not trolling when I say this: L2manage HDD so that you don't uninstall and reinstall the game that many times in the span of one month. If you're going to install the game on more than five computers and absolutely cannot wait for additional activations, well, either you're sharing your account with someone, stupidly wealthy enough to afford another copy of the game, or just plain stupid, tbh. (latter only applies if you actually actively use 6+ computers in one month's time, play the same set of games on all of them, and think you're somehow a big enough part of the market share for anyone to give a ♥♥♥♥)

Considering that Cyanide is a smaller developer, and Focus Interactive generally uses SecuROM, the publisher may very well have forced it on them, or as it is a licensed franchise, it may have been forced on both parties by attorneys that also demanded they regularly fax them the game's source code to ensure there would be no scandalous material. Probably the former seeing as the publisher has used SecuROM, probably the most controversial DRM aside from Origin and Ubisoft's always-on, though there's also the possibility that Cyanide just wanted to make piracy slightly more difficult.

Really, I used to get upset about DRM (though I am still miffed about Origin and BF3, but that's just EA, which is grandfathered rage) too, but then I learned that if we, as a species, can get so vocal about something that probably doesn't actually affect something we're using arbitrary money with an artificial value to purchase for our own self-indulgent entertainment, then we really don't deserve to survive. So I stopped getting angry about DRM, and now I can happily enjoy games that other people pass up on some misguided principle.

tl;dr: Jesus Christ, I wound up ranting a lot. Stop whining, and drop the pointless "moral" or personal code that ultimately only serves to prevent you from playing good games.

[tiredofpain]

"...we're using arbitrary money with an artificial value..."

Strange, my money seems pretty much constantly worth the same amount give or take a few fractions of a penny depending upon what the rest of the world is up to.

It's also rather difficult to come by in large amounts so I tend to be somewhat cautious with how I use it.

I suppose if you're living in Zimbabwe, you might feel differently about your money?

Tell you what, you don't seem to like your money very much so I'll do you a favour. Since I'm in a good mood I'll give you 5 cents for every dollar you want to get rid of...just because I'm such a nice guy.

[Baresark]

In truth, it is kind of insulting that they put DRM in like this. If we buy a license to use the software, we should have unlimited use of that software without arbitrary restrictions.

On the other hand, it's not bad DRM. I would prefer no DRM. So, here is what I often times due to not have to deal with DRM. I purchase a game, then get a pirated copy and play that one. I have purchased a license to play the game, so I get a copy that comes without restrictions to use my license for. I am aware that the EULA restricts this, but I don't actually have to agree to it with a pirated version, so I am not technically breaking the law yet. Though, I am relatively sure this will change sometime soon.

[Shotgunmaniac]

"...we're using arbitrary money with an artificial value..."

Strange, my money seems pretty much constantly worth the same amount give or take a few fractions of a penny depending upon what the rest of the world is up to.

It's also rather difficult to come by in large amounts so I tend to be somewhat cautious with how I use it.

I suppose if you're living in Zimbabwe, you might feel differently about your money?

Tell you what, you don't seem to like your money very much so I'll do you a favour. Since I'm in a good mood I'll give you 5 cents for every dollar you want to get rid of...just because I'm such a nice guy.
My comment wasn't directed towards the market value of any currency, but rather their physical and rational value. It's arbitrary because, well, you can usually piece together how much effort and time went into what you're buying, what the quality of the result is, and what you'll trade for it. It's artificial because physically, paper money can't be used for a great deal of things. Hell, even gold-backed currency has little true value - in this day and age, it's not even the best material for conductors and other technical internal things.

I realize you're trolling, but I spilled some soda on my keyboard and can't seem to get a few keys clean, so I have to type some more to get them un-stuck. I also like to hear myself type. But mainly, what I'm trying to get at is that though it's currently something you can't live without, not so long ago people would've scoffed at the fact we mostly trade paper for goods, and that we don't even barter for most of them. And now we have bit-coins, so eventually I imagine it'll become e-dollars, and "I have more money than you" will be reduced to people showing off that they have a higher amount of numbers on whatever the e-dollars are stored on using whatever the current hi-tech means of communication is.

But in regards to "not liking my money," thank god for the amazingly dependable American banks and their government backing. I didn't realize how fortunate I was until one of them decided that all the money my family deposited for safekeeping was not actually our money, and used it to pay a number of debts - all at once, without notice. So I love my money and appreciate what it does for me, now more than ever - I just find the whole system a bit silly and ultimately (though the same can be said about everything in life, depending on your outlook) pointless in the longest long run.

[Doob]

tl;dr: Stop whining, and drop the pointless "moral" or personal code that ultimately only serves to prevent you from playing good games.

QFT

PC gamers LOVE getting upset about things though. Look how many people threw a fit without even understanding what they were talking about.

[Sitiret]

Hi all,
Just a short answer to the guy who asked if we had a problem with DRM which prevented to play the game that i had this kind of problem with a game using Tages. It is a game that was produced at Windows XP time, now my pc is on Windows 7 64bits, and the Tages driver for this game of course doesn't work. The game publisher will not make a patch to update the Tages driver included in the game, so now i am stuck with a non functioning game.
So, if you buy a game with DRM requiring a driver inside, it is not only a limit of install per month, it is also a limit in the game life-length, because when a new OS will arrive, you probably won't be able to play that game anymore.

[daiBai6]

It's reset every month.

Bull. If not, then please provide proof that this resets every month.

[City Builder]

Can't you go to the tages website and download the updated 64bit driver?

[tiredofpain]

I still don't know what TAGES is but I did download the game anyway.

I bought it, it downloaded into my library, I clicked play...

Not really sure what the problem is supposed to be about but I wasn't asked to input any codes or sign up or log in to anything at all. Click play...and well, play.

[DiceDuP]

I can understand people's anger at having a DRM on top of Steam, but really, Tages is probably one of the less intrusive and forgiving DRM's out there. For each activation you use you will get it back within 2 months and then every 30 days after. It's not bull like one of you claimed, and if you want proof how about YOU goto the tages support and check it out, after all it is YOU who need educated on the product.

How many of you upgrade parts on your PC 6 times within a couple of months?

[johcar]

Why not add GFW and securom as well ? Disc check ?
Hardware dongle ?

[Skuggan]

Well, another game I'll never buy, thanks for saving me the money, folks. Utilizing any kind of DRM is very off-putting, but adding TAGES with a 5 machine activation limit ( or actually ANY limit ) just makes my decision not to buy even easier. I'll just add you folks to my list of companies not to support, like UBISOFT for instance, ...ho, hum. Anyone have a recommendation on where to spend the $39.99 I would have spent on this game?

Amen!

Wonder when these companies are going to realise they're shooting themselves in the foot by forcing TAGES on us. I rather get the flu than TAGES.

If it's easier to pirate than buy, I dont buy it.

[Skuggan]

I can understand people's anger at having a DRM on top of Steam, but really, Tages is probably one of the less intrusive and forgiving DRM's out there. For each activation you use you will get it back within 2 months and then every 30 days after. It's not bull like one of you claimed, and if you want proof how about YOU goto the tages support and check it out, after all it is YOU who need educated on the product.

How many of you upgrade parts on your PC 6 times within a couple of months?

I do, but does it matter?
If I want to change computer completly 15 times per month thats up to me and not to some developer/publisher.

I simply dont trust 3rd party rootkits, and I will never allow them to enter my computer, I rather skip the game. But I still wanted to vent because if everyone shut up the developers would think everything is perfect.

If you knew anything at all about these companies you wouldnt be here defending them, unless you have certain reasons for doing so.

[Sitiret]

City Builder, actually now you reminded me about it, i remember the DRM was not Tages, it was StarForce. For Tages i tried this 64bit driver but somehow it was ♥♥♥♥ed up, but maybe it's just me, i tried on only one machine.

So you can apply what i said in my previous post to StarForce. It is written on their website to contact the publisher of the game to get the game including the last protection... Seriously.. As if the publisher would update and old game probably not even supported by their team anymore. They can say it is free or whatever, the publisher will never invest the time of his engineers to update the game for a minority of people who want to play their old game.
Here is the link that proves what i say : http://www.star-force.com/support/users/windows7/

[Skuggan]

City Builder, actually now you reminded me about it, i remember the DRM was not Tages, it was StarForce. For Tages i tried this 64bit driver but somehow it was ♥♥♥♥ed up, but maybe it's just me, i tried on only one machine.

So you can apply what i said in my previous post to StarForce. It is written on their website to contact the publisher of the game to get the game including the last protection... Seriously.. As if the publisher would update and old game probably not even supported by their team anymore. They can say it is free or whatever, the publisher will never invest the time of his engineers to update the game for a minority of people who want to play their old game.
Here is the link that proves what i say : http://www.star-force.com/support/users/windows7/

This is a perfect example of why 3rd party DRM belongs in the trashcan, along with all developers that rely on it. Like I said earlier, the only DRM entering my computer is Steam, no matter how low the price on the product with the DRM is.
It's easier to use a copy of the game without this DRM than using a copy of the game with the DRM, guess wich one I go for?

[Fuzzballx]

I've no idea whether this really has TAGES through steam or not...but when i launched it, i didn't see any special activation bull♥♥♥♥...it ran just like a normal steam title...so if it's there it seems invisible and i will most likely never run into it. Game's installed and running great on both my desktop and my laptop.

Think this whole thread is a bunch of BS at this point.

[Froh]

Jesus, how often in practice does the 5 machine limit + resets/additions (I think TAGES just resets the count every 30 days for this game as stated before, but some games just give you another activation every 30/45 days) actually affect any of you significantly? (...)


It affects me... a lot. I mean seriously. This and the often online DRM affecting me like twice a month.

[Skuggan]

I've no idea whether this really has TAGES through steam or not...but when i launched it, i didn't see any special activation bull♥♥♥♥...it ran just like a normal steam title...so if it's there it seems invisible and i will most likely never run into it. Game's installed and running great on both my desktop and my laptop.

Think this whole thread is a bunch of BS at this point.

Just because you cant see it doesnt equal, it doesnt exist. Tages is rootkit installed on the lowest layer in Windows, and trust me, it is there on your machine now if you bought this game.

The easier way is to not buy the game, there are other ways to cross the road.

[askabana]

Tages is rootkit installed on the lowest layer in Windows

No, it isn't. You seem to confuse earlier versions of Tages, which used to install drivers, with the activation system in this game, which does not use or install drivers at all. Not that drivers by themselves would be rootkits, as you seem to believe.

[hujikode]

Jeez, I'm glad I read this thread. Kinda getting annoyed now, there is a lot of games I have passed on for DRM reasons lately.

[Foojo]

When I installed the game, steam installed separate components like usual. On 3 of 3, I got a popup from ZoneAlarm for 'agot.exe' requesting internet access, so that was probably the Tages activation call. I didn't need to enter another key or anything. So it was fairly painless.

[daiBai6]

This thing does NOT reset every 30 days. If you don't uninstall the game properly, say goodbye to one of five installs. If you aren't able to uninstall the game five times, then you'll have to beg Focus Home to let you install your game again. Pretty stupid if you ask me. I think Focus Home is the last company to still insist on limiting the number of times you can install a game that you bought. EA and 2K have both stopped doing that.

[daiBai6]

I can understand people's anger at having a DRM on top of Steam, but really, Tages is probably one of the less intrusive and forgiving DRM's out there. For each activation you use you will get it back within 2 months and then every 30 days after. It's not bull like one of you claimed, and if you want proof how about YOU goto the tages support and check it out, after all it is YOU who need educated on the product.

How many of you upgrade parts on your PC 6 times within a couple of months?

Oh please, you make a statement claiming it's on the website and say I need to be educated but you can't provide proof. If it really is there then you should be able to provide the link a lot more easily. Otherwise, tell us oh wise and enlightened one where you read that you "get it back within 2 months and then every 30 days after" when it comes to A Game of Thrones - Genesis?

Let me help you. Official Tages website (http://www.tagesprotection.com/main.htm?page=activation.htm) says:
A time based incremental activation count can be used to re-credit the SN without requiring the end-user to bother about his activation count.


And most searches for Tages 30-days do lead back to Steam, but in cases like these they are specified on the game's page, like in the case of The Chronicles of Riddick™ Assault on Dark Athena (http://store.steampowered.com/app/9860/) where it says:
Notice: After activating the game for a third time TAGES will start a 30-day timer. After 30 days you will get that activation back up to 3 total activations.

Now, please show us an official source that states that Tages Solidshield resets the activations on A Game of Thrones - Genesis (http://store.steampowered.com/app/58550/)?

[tiredofpain]

Wow, I'd wish you guys would just be honest about why this bothers you.

It's kind of starting to sound like the pirates are jarateed off.

Forcing me to sign up to anything on top of being here at Steam is something I resent. Kind of like forcing me to sit through commercials when I've paid to go to a theatre. If I buy a game, I'm not signing up to your website and I don't want your coupons or "updates" from your site...I get that but none of it applies in this case.

It's a standard, download the game, install it and play it. No one asked me to join anything or sign anything and I honestly couldn't care less how many times they allow me to install it, I'll have played it to death and forgotten about it long, long before I get anywhere close to any imposed limits.

If, when I remember how much I enjoyed this game and go back to re-install it only to find that I am locked out...I'll make sure to write a few choice comments to the company.

As long as gamers remain unorganized, any effort at boycotting a company will be hit and miss at best. Now if we formed some sort of consumer bloc or a gamer's union or something, we might be able to compel their attention more effectively. Until then, it comes down to making an informed choice and to be honest, I don't think most gamers really care as long as it isn't totally invasive and in your face.

[daiBai6]

Wow, I'd wish you guys would just be honest about why this bothers you.

Because the 5-install limit is a pointless inconvenience when the game is already protected from casual piracy by Steam.

It's kind of starting to sound like the pirates are jarateed off.

Seriously doubt that. The game has already been pirated, and the pirates aren't affected by the install limit.

I honestly couldn't care less how many times they allow me to install it, I'll have played it to death and forgotten about it long, long before I get anywhere close to any imposed limits.

Good for you. Some of us do care. Why should that bother you?


If, when I remember how much I enjoyed this game and go back to re-install it only to find that I am locked out...I'll make sure to write a few choice comments to the company.
There's a possibility that Focus Home or Cyanide won't exist in the next five years, so that may be too little, too late.



As long as gamers remain unorganized, any effort at boycotting a company will be hit and miss at best. Now if we formed some sort of consumer bloc or a gamer's union or something, we might be able to compel their attention more effectively. Until then, it comes down to making an informed choice and to be honest, I don't think most gamers really care as long as it isn't totally invasive and in your face.

I'd agree with you, but EA, 2K and Ubisoft have done away with these installation limits after a lot of user complaints and negative press. Focus Home and Cyanide have probably been spared from all this press since their games serve a small niche.

[askabana]

The game has already been pirated, and the pirates aren't affected by the install limit.

Actually, pirates cannot play the game yet.

[Simbot]

The only way to send a message to the publisher is with your wallets, that is the only thing that will get them to listen. The steam version shouldn't have 3rd party DRM period.

Just wait for the game to be $10 or less, i bet they remove the pointless DRM by the time it hits that price point.

[tiredofpain]

daibai6, all of your arguments amount to "everybody else is doing it so why can't I"?

You have a problem with a download limit of 5 or 10 or 20? Why? What are you up to that makes you need to reinstall your games so often?

I would seriously like to know. I don't like anyone imposing rules on me or telling me what I can do with my own stuff but the kind of attention this issue gets just doesn't make any sense to me.

Obviously you don't owe me anything but I would like to know all the same.

[daiBai6]

daibai6, all of your arguments amount to "everybody else is doing it so why can't I"?

My argument is that the limitation serves no purpose except to inconvenience people who actually buy the game.


You have a problem with a download limit of 5 or 10 or 20? Why? What are you up to that makes you need to reinstall your games so often?

You are limited to installing the game five times. If you properly uninstall the game, then you are able to get those installs back.

If you install the game to three of your computers, and through bad luck are unable to uninstall the game properly from those three computers because of theft, damaged hardware or a natural disaster, then you have only two chances left to install the game again.

How is that acceptable for a game that you've purchased?

You might be able to beg for more chances to install if you run out of them, but what happens when Focus Home or Tages shut down? Based on how Focus Home has handled previous titles, they don't really release patches over a year after their game is released, nor do they remove DRM.

I would seriously like to know. I don't like anyone imposing rules on me or telling me what I can do with my own stuff but the kind of attention this issue gets just doesn't make any sense to me.

It's not a big deal to you, fine. That doesn't make our opinions on the issue any less valid than yours. You choose to passively accept a restriction you dislike, we choose to air our grievances in hopes that maybe it will get enough attention and get Focus Home to either change their ways or get more people to vote with their wallets.

Obviously you don't owe me anything but I would like to know all the same.

Yeah I don't, but I was courteous enough to respond. I'd appreciate if you'd be courteous enough not to insinuate that anyone who has problems with these install limits is up to no good. I've been a PC gamer since 1986, and have paid for over 1000 titles. The last time I "tried" a game that didn't have an official demo was in 2003. If there's a game I really like that imposes a limit which makes it difficult for me to play, I'd rather not have to rely on a 3rd-party executable because of bull-headed publishers.

[slovenian89]

Thanks for the info, was about to buy this...glad I checked the forums first!

[bizmok]

nevermind

[Booke]

I would seriously like to know. I don't like anyone imposing rules on me or telling me what I can do with my own stuff but the kind of attention this issue gets just doesn't make any sense to me.

You just might not be a gaming enthusiast.

I've been burned by SecuROM limited activations numerous times in the past. All because I like to play with my hardware. It turns out that with some of these DRMs (and sadly, you usually don't know until it's too late) tweaking something as stupid as the clock multiplier on your CPU, or RAM timings eat up activations each time you do them. If the DRM thinks the hardware has changed enough to brand it a new machine, it will. I've easily gone past 5 reboots trying to set up the perfect OC profile for the new Witcher 2 2.0.

Am I going to gamble with a limited activation DRM and just hope my tinkering doesn't eat up my activations? Am I going to make sure I uninstall every time before I make a hardware adjustment? Am I going to e-mail the developer/publishers and ask for some more activations?

No. I let Steam handle DRM. That's what it's there for.

[TazzieDevil]

Jesus, how often in practice does the 5 machine limit + resets/additions (I think TAGES just resets the count every 30 days for this game as stated before, but some games just give you another activation every 30/45 days) actually affect any of you significantly? Have you ever lost money because DRM stopped you from playing a game, and neither Steam nor the DRM creator no the publisher nor the developer nor possibly the 3rd party retailer could help?


I got hit by a 5 activation limit about 6 months ago when i tried to install COD modern warfare on my new Win 7 machine. Took nearly a week to work out so i got an extra install - so no money lost. But it did colour my opinion of activation limits - as i had installed it on basically the same computer 5 times before my most recent install.

Can you point me to the source of you information please? If it renews every 30 days etc - i have no problem with that - as obviously i'm never going to be affected by it. But i'd like to double check before i pay for it... But thanks for the information...

[Foojo]

This past weekend, I had blue screen when playing CoD - UO while downloading another game from steam, and it really messed up steam. I had to re-install steam (basically delete everything in the steam folder but steam.exe and the steamapps folder). It was a pain to get this game to run again, and I couldn't successfully uninstall it either. So I ended up doing two installs, and install count could very well be 3 at this point and it has really only been installed on this one machine for under a week.

That's what bad luck can get you on these stupid install limitations. I've never had something like that happen before.

[daiBai6]

...

Can you point me to the source of you information please? If it renews every 30 days etc - i have no problem with that - as obviously i'm never going to be affected by it. But i'd like to double check before i pay for it... But thanks for the information...

I think there is no source. The guy assumed, like many, that there was a 30-day reset without actually checking.

[jimgnarkill]

When will they realise that these DRm activations ONLY penalise the people that buy the games. They do not stop people cracking or pirating the games, just annoy the legitimate customers.

Whats the bet I can find GOT on certain websites, have it dld and instaled wihin the hour, with no care about activaations etc.

Im entirely against game piracy, not music since these albums take the pop merchants 2 weeks write and record, and then 10 million on advertising/marketing, but games take years and millions to just develop, and personally I cant be stealing such work. I do sometimes in order to try games out that dont come with demos. The other thing is games released on steam come with probably the best security in the steam/works system, so why oh why do they insist on yet another useless and annoying level of security?

It doesnt work!

I play Lock On still (an old UBI game), and that has STARFORCE on it, and everytime I reinstall it I have to battle aginst it, update here, download and install this for win7 64, then set this because of new HD, then restart, then update again etc etc. OR I could just DL it from Pirate Bay and have NONE of these problems. WAKE UP YOU IDIOTS


WAKE UUUUUP

[askabana]

When will they realise that these DRm activations ONLY penalise the people that buy the games. They do not stop people cracking or pirating the games, just annoy the legitimate customers.


Actually, pirates cannot play the game yet.

[TazzieDevil]

I think there is no source. The guy assumed, like many, that there was a 30-day reset without actually checking.


Thanks for the update - i looked up the home page of Tages - it's all about how they can use parts of your hard drive to encrypt multiple levels of the game etc.

Not a single word on how it really works from a Players point of view, Just great diatribe of how it stops pirates in their tracks for developers. Which i understand - but when it stops the people who honestly buy the game in their tracks -- i don't understand...

especially as there is a method of installing Tages listed on their site that is un uninstallable... I can only hope it is removed if you uninstall the game...

[daiBai6]

Thanks for the update - i looked up the home page of Tages - it's all about how they can use parts of your hard drive to encrypt multiple levels of the game etc.

Not a single word on how it really works from a Players point of view, Just great diatribe of how it stops pirates in their tracks for developers. Which i understand - but when it stops the people who honestly buy the game in their tracks -- i don't understand...

especially as there is a method of installing Tages listed on their site that is un uninstallable... I can only hope it is removed if you uninstall the game...

The version installed in A Game of Thrones - Genesis, called Tages Solidshield is supposed to be less intrusive than the older variant. Their current website (http://www.solidshield.com/), claims to be all about the user.

As I understand it, the version included in AGoT - Genesis is removed automatically when you uninstall the game. If you are unable to uninstall the game however, you lose an activation. If you run out of activations, you have to beg Focus Home for more. The activations do not reset after 30 days for this game.

[daiBai6]

Actually, pirates cannot play the game yet.

I doubt that.

[oPatJRo]

Tage stop those Chinese owned internet cafe who purchased one game and install it on 50 computers.

[daiBai6]

Tage stop those Chinese owned internet cafe who purchased one game and install it on 50 computers.

The game can only be run on one Steam account at a time, so the install limit isn't necessary from that point of view. The game has already been pirated and is probably already being played in internet cafés, maybe even without any purchased copies at all. The only one affected by these install limits are the people who actually paid for the game.

[askabana]

I doubt that.

Well, you can believe anything you want. Fact is, there is no working pirate version yet.

[Graham_Gibbons]

According to the forum rules stating that i have used or promote piracy is a ban-able offense.

So .. in the spirit of not inciting a moderator to ban my account.

1. There is a working pirate version of this game.
2. My evidence is based on watching a person play on a machine that may or may not be similar to my own private set up.
3. After testing the pirate version ... the pirate version was removed ... and did convince said non descriptive person to purchase the legitimate software ... to support the developer ...

Ok ... so yes there is a working pirate version without the DRM ... so the DRM is somewhat pointless ......

PS: Pirate-bay is not the only site to find such software .... however i do not condone .. cough ... such action ... that may or may not be considered to be copyright breaches .

[askabana]

Ok ... so yes there is a working pirate version without the DRM ... so the DRM is somewhat pointless ......


Sorry, Graham_Gibbons, but you are obviously trying to disinform people. There is no working pirate version yet. A search on any of those websites you seem to hold in high esteem will show you that all of the pirate versions so far can not be played because there is no crack yet.

[yadayada]

Sorry, Graham_Gibbons, but you are obviously trying to disinform people. There is no working pirate version yet. A search on any of those websites you seem to hold in high esteem will show you that all of the pirate versions so far can not be played because there is no crack yet.

Even assuming that there's no pirate version yet, the fact is there will be one soon, likely within a month. As soon as that happens, the DRM becomes useless. And yet years from now, that DRM will still be causing grievance to legitimate customers. Sounds like a pretty short-sighted plan to me.

[askabana]

Even assuming that there's no pirate version yet, the fact is there will be one soon, likely within a month. As soon as that happens, the DRM becomes useless. And yet years from now, that DRM will still be causing grievance to legitimate customers. Sounds like a pretty short-sighted plan to me.

You should read this article: Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-30-how-bad-is-pc-piracy-really-article?page=3)

Keeping a crack-free window as long as possible does result in meaningful increases in revenue, especially in the first 30 days.

[yadayada]

You should read this article: Eurogamer
Interesting read, especially this:

When a DRM has been defeated, being able to remove DRM for all customers - because at that point you are only harming the legitimate customer - is an important ability to have.
DRM as a temporary compromise I can live with. It's when DRM is a permanent disability that it becomes pointless and unacceptable.

[daiBai6]

DRM as a temporary compromise I can live with. It's when DRM is a permanent disability that it becomes pointless and unacceptable.

Therein lies the rub. Focus Home, the game's publisher, released two games October last year with a similar 5-install activation limit but with SecuROM. As of today, the 5-install activation limit has not been removed from Cities XL 2011 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/58510/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1) and Blood Bowl Legendary Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/58520/?snr=1_234_234__13).

[Graham_Gibbons]

A search on any of those websites you seem to hold in high esteem.

Never stated i hold copy right infringement or the sites that support such use in high esteem.

However .. i feel the need to remind you that as of the time of the post .. there was a working cracked version.

Believing me or not .. being ale to check the validity of my claim or not is mute.

And in fairness to yourself Askabana ... i should not of raised the issue.

The thread is about the D.R.M. itself .. and the availability of getting around it now or in the future is not the topic .. rather should the D.R.M. itself even be an option for developers at all.

On this topic i have the following suggestions and points.

(1)Depending on how the D.R.M. decides a certain pc counts towards an install or not ... D.R.M. can be a very inept way of handling Copy Right Protection.

At present ... can anyone actually confirm what parts of your pc are logged with the intention
of identifying the hardware?

Ie: Is it the CPU ? Is it the Graphics card ? By Brand or model ?

There above are legitimate questions to ask.

IF I am to purchase product X ... and the product's D.R.M. decides that my CPU is the key to identifying my pc .. and i latter choose to remove that and install another CPU .. perhaps edit the BIOS settings from V to M .... does this also count towards an install?

The argument i put forward relating to the fair usage of D.R.M. is the said D.R.M. should not either directly or by inference penalize a customer for updating their system via hardware changes .... Operating systems .... Bios updates etc ...

Any Digital Rights Management needs to allow for the possablity of numerous installs relating to fair and legal use of the customers own hardware and operating system requirements for not just the product installed which includes the D.R.M. but for any potential future needs that are fair and likely to occur. AKA: Hardware upgrades.

Considering that any hardware upgrade can run into numerous install issues , conflict-ions with existing programs etc .... it is not at all unlikely that a certain software may be directly targeted for uninstall ... or bundled together with other software for deletion / uninstall in the case of a O.S. update , Bios edit etc.

[askabana]

However .. i feel the need to remind you that as of the time of the post .. there was a working cracked version.

Please stop lying. There is no working crack yet.

If you feel like you must, you can PM me and send me hints as to where one would be referenced. I would be more than glad to admit my mistake then, but until then you are just a liar who uses fake strawman arguments.

[Graham_Gibbons]

Please stop lying. There is no working crack yet.

If you feel like you must, you can PM me and send me hints as to where one would be referenced. I would be more than glad to admit my mistake then, but until then you are just a liar who uses fake straw man arguments.

I think your missing the issue here.

(1) Promoting the usage of piracy sites can in effect get my account revoked. So i am hardly going to do pm you a link to such material.

Your ability to find such material or not withstanding as it may be ... I do understand that the burden of proof is on me to provide the example i claim aka: Cracked version of GOTG
However as previously explained ... in doing so i can expect a banned account courtesy of the steam forums rules of conduct... so i will pass .. thank you.

And for the sake of debate .. i will confer that at this time i am unable or unwilling to provide the evidence to support my claim .... This however does not make me a liar ... as my reason for not providing the link can be substantiated above..

(2) Straw man arguments ? Allow me to copy and paste the actual definition of a straw man argument ... and please feel free to quote me exactly where any of my comments fit within this scope ...
"A straw man is a component of an argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument) and is an informal fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy) based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#cite_note-book-0) To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position"

So ... where have i used a straw man argument ? Where i have mis quoted you ? Or stated your position for you and then taken the time to defeat it ? ....... please please ...
Enlighten me ...

(3) You however have not addressed my point of contention being ... that with or without a cracked version of the software being available for general download ..... the D.R.M. TAGS is only an issue if the system can mistake system upgrades and reboots as FRESH INSTALLS ON A NEW PC.

My question in the above post " At present ... can anyone actually confirm what parts of your pc are logged with the intention of identifying the hardware? " shows my main point ....

You have yet to answer the question ... and i would hazard a guess ... You do not know extactly what counts as a FRESH INSTALL .... or what HARDWARE / OS information is collected for the purpose of deciding such.

The above by the way ... is a guess .... not a straw man ... but feel free to rebut with your normal accuracy.

[SirGCal]

Tages = no buy

I'd like to thank Focus Home Interactive for saving my touchy trigger finger from the $39.99x4 purchase.

Remove Tages and I'll buy the 4 copies I was planning on buying.

Ditto... I have my personal multiple gaming rigs and sometimes do updates to them within weeks of each other... I buy nothing with activation limits.. I got one as a gift once but... I want this game; but not with activation limits... I spend WAY too much $ on games and hardware... Especially with the STEAM's already preventative measures against stealing... Heck, just require the account be logged in to play. Many do that already. Fine, but activation limit, no thanks...

[johcar]

This past weekend, I had blue screen when playing CoD - UO while downloading another game from steam, and it really messed up steam. I had to re-install steam (basically delete everything in the steam folder but steam.exe and the steamapps folder). It was a pain to get this game to run again, and I couldn't successfully uninstall it either. So I ended up doing two installs, and install count could very well be 3 at this point and it has really only been installed on this one machine for under a week.

That's what bad luck can get you on these stupid install limitations. I've never had something like that happen before.

The activation data is stored here:
C:\ProgramData\Solidshield\
So not on steam folder.

[Meowthemouse]

Thanks for having TAGES in the game so I don't have to think about buying it.