PDA

View Full Version : Every footage released has been PC...


LedBetter
09-29-2011, 11:56 AM
People need to stop with the misinformation. They have shown PC footage. Every single video they have released for this game had PC prompts. Number keys for weapons, E to interact, etc.

The game has been confirmed to have larger textures on PC.

Source: http://www.geforce.com/News/articles/eurogamer-2011-discover-how-rage-takes-advantage-of-your-high-end-gpu

Watch that video. It scales with how much VRam your GPU has.

The game also has mod tools and the interface is different from the console version.

People need to stop hating on id just because they are a multi plat company now. The game is a PC game. It's not a port.

Here is the latest trailer that just came out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSNtIeLxcMg

Notice the PC prompts.

Just wanted to clear some of the lies that were spreading on these forums and others from butt hurt PC gamers who think that ANYTHING that's multi platform is a fail.

mochabootysweat
09-29-2011, 12:04 PM
why no 1080p footage?

incidentally, here are some hi res PC screens:


http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/7/1/2/6/1/1280Rage_E32011_Dead_City.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/4/8/6/1/shot00777.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/5/0/8/6/5/Rage2011BFG_11.jpg.jpg

enemyofportal
09-29-2011, 12:10 PM
unfortunately, people don't even read the detail of article. they assume that the game is console port without clue. sad. all this happen just ruined by ♥♥♥♥ing console. I hate console.

mochabootysweat
09-29-2011, 12:11 PM
unfortunately, people don't even read the detail of article. they assume that the game is console port without clue. sad. all this happen just ruined by ♥♥♥♥ing console. I hate console.

I think you can blame Jesse Pinkman for that

emperorcleon
09-29-2011, 01:42 PM
i think id should just shut up about how good rage looks on pc because it does not.

looks at bulletstorm, crysis 2 and bf3 and then look at rage with baked lighting

Nitronumber9
09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
i think id should just shut up about how good rage looks on pc because it does not.

looks at bulletstorm, crysis 2 and bf3 and then look at rage with baked lighting
Bulletstorm was ugly, Crysis 2 was visually worse than its older brother and BF3 is a joke, I can't even tell the difference between the console version and the Pc version its that unimpressive.

Rage is visually, one of the best shooters I've seen in my however many years I've been Pc gaming, I lost count after Mechwarrior 2(which is actually not a bad looking game)

phillibl
09-29-2011, 03:27 PM
It is true that they have been showing PC footage although it as been set to the graphical settings of consoles (eg 720p)

Atomic Hamster
09-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Bulletstorm was ugly, Crysis 2 was visually worse than its older brother and BF3 is a joke, I can't even tell the difference between the console version and the Pc version its that unimpressive.

Rage is visually, one of the best shooters I've seen in my however many years I've been Pc gaming, I lost count after Mechwarrior 2(which is actually not a bad looking game)

What? Bulletstorm was ugly? It looks great, as does Crysis 2 and BF3 on my PC.

brimley
09-29-2011, 05:47 PM
i think id should just shut up about how good rage looks on pc because it does not.

looks at bulletstorm, crysis 2 and bf3 and then look at rage with baked lighting

have you actually played Rage or are you just going by what you've seen on videos?

you can't really judge a games graphical fidelity off of what you see on compressed youtube videos.

emperorcleon
09-29-2011, 06:27 PM
Bulletstorm was ugly, Crysis 2 was visually worse than its older brother and BF3 is a joke, I can't even tell the difference between the console version and the Pc version its that unimpressive.

Rage is visually, one of the best shooters I've seen in my however many years I've been Pc gaming, I lost count after Mechwarrior 2(which is actually not a bad looking game)

what are u smoking and how did u get that much rep???? did u get ur eyes check recently??

Iconoclast XVII
09-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Bulletstorm was ugly, Crysis 2 was visually worse than its older brother and BF3 is a joke, I can't even tell the difference between the console version and the Pc version its that unimpressive.


Ok, we get it, you want to sound cool...

JK_DC
09-29-2011, 08:25 PM
why no 1080p footage?

incidentally, here are some hi res PC screens:


http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/7/1/2/6/1/1280Rage_E32011_Dead_City.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/4/8/6/1/shot00777.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/5/0/8/6/5/Rage2011BFG_11.jpg.jpg

Ouch look at the textures on the parking garage in the first pic. Failure to stream?

Chubz123
09-29-2011, 08:57 PM
why no 1080p footage?

incidentally, here are some hi res PC screens:


http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/7/1/2/6/1/1280Rage_E32011_Dead_City.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/4/8/6/1/shot00777.jpg.jpg

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/5/0/8/6/5/Rage2011BFG_11.jpg.jpg

Touched up screenshots don't impress me. They never have and never will. Show me some high-res gameplay screenshots (HUD and all), then we'll talk.

LedBetter
09-29-2011, 09:05 PM
We have 720P footage of the freaking game and it looks gorgeous what more do you want FFS...even previews are saying it's one of the best looking games.

Lucian
09-29-2011, 09:31 PM
All the trailer are console footage... I don't know wtf u guys are talking about, but notice how the player moves. Clearly, the character is controlled by a controller, not mouse and keyboard. Unless they are playing on a PC with controller... makes no sense.

So footage, trailers, videos, 100% console so far.

Ridonk
09-29-2011, 11:48 PM
^Are you even looking at the HUD?

capsola
09-29-2011, 11:49 PM
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/jackal-canyon-rage/721570

LedBetter
09-30-2011, 01:13 AM
All the trailer are console footage... I don't know wtf u guys are talking about, but notice how the player moves. Clearly, the character is controlled by a controller, not mouse and keyboard. Unless they are playing on a PC with controller... makes no sense.

So footage, trailers, videos, 100% console so far.


When the character is next to an object he needs to interact with it says 'E.' For the weapons it has number keys.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the last time I checked 360 controllers didn't have an 'E' button or number keys and neither does the PS3 controller.

It's pretty obvious they did the movements that way for a cinematic feeling. They didn't want to whip around because the videos are supposed to be immersive.

PS: Look at the sniping as well. That is NOT the sniping of a controller. It goes over the enemy smoothly while a controller you usually tap. The aim is dead on.

PPS: I just find it so funny...PC gamers always rage about how developers don't care and everything is a console port. How they "boycott" developers that don't release mod tools, or port console interface to PC.

Well when the opportunity comes to support a developer with a rich PC history they come up with some BS excuse again.

This game has higher res textures
This game has a PC interface
This game mod tools on day one

What else do you want? I think some PC gamers are just upset about ANY game that is a multi plat game. I can guarantee you right now when Half Life 3 comes out and it's multi plat PC gamers will bombard metacritic with 0's and call it console trash. The game can earn nothing but 100's and be called the greatest FPS ever made and yet that's how they will treat it. JUST because it's a multi plat game.

Nitronumber9
09-30-2011, 01:26 AM
What? Bulletstorm was ugly? It looks great, as does Crysis 2 and BF3 on my PC.
If you like an excessive amount of bluring, sure.
Bulletstorm was riddled with low resolution textures, the effects were typical UT3 engine garbage which didn't even get dynamic lighting right, sure it had god rays and some fancy effects, but surely you noticed the simple lack of dynamic light.

Crysis 2 was blurry, had short rendering distances(and terrible pop in), and was no where near its older brother Crysis, have a look at Crysis console, the difference between that and PC Crysis is easy to spot unless your blind.

BF3... I love how people are raving on and on and on about this, why? Whats so graphically special about it? Ok I'll skip the terrible character animations bit and talk about the graphics itself, its horrible, its draw distance on grass is shorter than Flashpoints Dragon Rising, there was a video on Kokotu which showed side by side footage of the PC and console version, when you see that (I can't be asked to find it) you'll actually be surprised.

neko77025
09-30-2011, 02:37 AM
BF3... I love how people are raving on and on and on about this, why? Whats so graphically special about it? Ok I'll skip the terrible character animations bit and talk about the graphics itself, its horrible, its draw distance on grass is shorter than Flashpoints Dragon Rising, there was a video on Kokotu which showed side by side footage of the PC and console version, when you see that (I can't be asked to find it) you'll actually be surprised.

R U kidding me ? .. BF3 is the best looking / most demanding gmae their is. The game truely looks Amaziing .. all that being said only few ppl can run it as such.

For 1920x1080 45+ Fps Ultra setting you need A min of 2x 580s.

I was in Alpha and am in Beta .. the game looks OMFG. and I can not max it. I can get 45 FPS @ 1920x1200 on A mix of High/Med with my comp. (still think they need too fix the drivers more)

Window 7-U-65bit
AMD 965 @ 4.0Ghz W/ ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-R
Asus M3a79-t Deluxe
4x 2gb DDR2 @ 1033
MSI Lighting 6970
MSI T/F III P-E 6950
Creative Labs X-fi [ PCI ]
Mushkin Chronos 120GB SSD (SF-2281)
SATA III (6Gb/s) Controler Card
3x WD 750gb HD
Ultra x3 1000w
Lian Li Armorsuit PC-P50R

R_Diaz
09-30-2011, 02:52 AM
Rage doesn't look good because of its tech (which is mostly outdated), it looks good because of its artistic design. Which is absolutely awesome IMHO. Every object looks like what it's supposed to be, not just a bunch of boxes or generic models put together. Much better than slapping ultra high-res textures over horrible geometry, and having them poorly aligned. Tha same thing happens with Bulletstorm, it might not have the greatest technology, but it looked great to me.

Atomic Hamster
09-30-2011, 03:19 AM
At the end of the day I play a game because it's fun and I don't go around the game-world looking at every single texture and over analysing.

cyborg34573
09-30-2011, 07:46 AM
R U kidding me ? .. BF3 is the best looking / most demanding gmae their is. The game truely looks Amaziing .. all that being said only few ppl can run it as such.

For 1920x1080 45+ Fps Ultra setting you need A min of 2x 580s.

I was in Alpha and am in Beta .. the game looks OMFG. and I can not max it. I can get 45 FPS @ 1920x1200 on A mix of High/Med with my comp. (still think they need too fix the drivers more)

Window 7-U-65bit
AMD 965 @ 4.0Ghz W/ ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-R
Asus M3a79-t Deluxe
4x 2gb DDR2 @ 1033
MSI Lighting 6970
MSI T/F III P-E 6950
Creative Labs X-fi [ PCI ]
Mushkin Chronos 120GB SSD (SF-2281)
SATA III (6Gb/s) Controler Card
3x WD 750gb HD
Ultra x3 1000w
Lian Li Armorsuit PC-P50R

So far the 2x 580's to play the game smoothly on ultra is not true, ive seen alot of people with single 560ti/570/580 playing the beta on ultra just fine at 45+ fps. Could be the drivers slowing you down, Nvidia has released an excellent one for BF3 Beta, and i heard the AMD ones are not as good.

LedBetter
09-30-2011, 11:41 AM
So far the 2x 580's to play the game smoothly on ultra is not true, ive seen alot of people with single 560ti/570/580 playing the beta on ultra just fine at 45+ fps. Could be the drivers slowing you down, Nvidia has released an excellent one for BF3 Beta, and i heard the AMD ones are not as good.

It's been confirmed that Ultra doesn't do anything in the beta.

Just like in BC2 high res texutres and stuff weren't activated in beta.

In the alpha of BF3 you could choose high but it didn't do anything.

DICE really needs to just black out the options that don't do anything...

If you like an excessive amount of bluring, sure.
Bulletstorm was riddled with low resolution textures, the effects were typical UT3 engine garbage which didn't even get dynamic lighting right, sure it had god rays and some fancy effects, but surely you noticed the simple lack of dynamic light.

Crysis 2 was blurry, had short rendering distances(and terrible pop in), and was no where near its older brother Crysis, have a look at Crysis console, the difference between that and PC Crysis is easy to spot unless your blind.

BF3... I love how people are raving on and on and on about this, why? Whats so graphically special about it? Ok I'll skip the terrible character animations bit and talk about the graphics itself, its horrible, its draw distance on grass is shorter than Flashpoints Dragon Rising, there was a video on Kokotu which showed side by side footage of the PC and console version, when you see that (I can't be asked to find it) you'll actually be surprised.

Wow you have ridiculously stupid standards lol.
Rage doesn't look good because of its tech (which is mostly outdated), it looks good because of its artistic design. Which is absolutely awesome IMHO. Every object looks like what it's supposed to be, not just a bunch of boxes or generic models put together. Much better than slapping ultra high-res textures over horrible geometry, and having them poorly aligned. Tha same thing happens with Bulletstorm, it might not have the greatest technology, but it looked great to me.

How the hell is Id Tech 5 outdated...

HydrantHunter
09-30-2011, 12:07 PM
Rage doesn't look good...
The stuff I've seen for PC looks great...it's too bad you've managed to miss all the good footage out there.

...because of its tech (which is mostly outdated)...
idTech 5 is id's newest engine, and the first to support 'megatextures' over 32,76832,768 pixels (to my knowledge) - it's essentially been written from the ground up (no doubt using ideas gained from past experience). John Carmack, the maniac behind the advancing core of idTech, is renowned for pushing forward rendering technology with each new idTech engine.

...it looks good because of its artistic design...Much better than slapping ultra high-res textures over horrible geometry, and having them poorly aligned.
That level of detail is possible not just because of 'artistic design' - it's possible because idTech 5 can render that level of detail at a reasonable framerate. Don't forget that there will be NO repeating textures thanks to 'megatexture' technology in the idTech 5 engine.

So how is it that idTech 5 is outdated exactly?

LedBetter
09-30-2011, 12:10 PM
idTech 5 is id's newest engine, and the first to support 'megatextures' - it's essentially been written from the ground up (no doubt using ideas gained from past experience). John Carmack is renowned for pushing forward rendering technology with each new idTech engine - so how is that outdated exactly?

A lot of gamers like to pretend that they are experts on game engines, etc. So he's just talking out of his you know what.

Nitronumber9
09-30-2011, 12:28 PM
Wow you have ridiculously stupid standards lol.

Actually not really, I like what I call, a constant value in terms of graphics, what that means is that I like everything reasonably even in terms of graphical style.
I detest ANY! Game that hides its visuals behind some sort of blur effect, Crysis 2 failed there for me, I also hate popin (BF3 fails here) and just inconsistent visuals (Bulletstorm anyone?, Mass Effect also suffers for this) All visuals need to be is reasonably constant and no fancy blur effects to hide its short comings.

HydrantHunter
09-30-2011, 12:31 PM
A lot of gamers like to pretend that they are experts on game engines, etc. So he's just talking out of his you know what.
Agreed. Next up...OpenGL?

neko77025
10-02-2011, 01:02 PM
So far the 2x 580's to play the game smoothly on ultra is not true, ive seen alot of people with single 560ti/570/580 playing the beta on ultra just fine at 45+ fps. Could be the drivers slowing you down, Nvidia has released an excellent one for BF3 Beta, and i heard the AMD ones are not as good.

It had been Confirmed from DICE. U will Need 2x 580s for ultra.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/news/29507/
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/09/23/battlefield-3-will-need-monster-rig-to-run-on-ultra-settings

Think of running Metro 2033 with 64 ppl running around in maps that are so huge (open) jets dog fight.

The game looks like nothing else .. the only game that comes close is Metro2033 .. but ..2033 is so dark you cant see it .. this you can.

Volitions Advoc
10-02-2011, 01:20 PM
There is no law saying you can't play a FPS on pc with a controller. I have a 360 controller on my desk right now. They do make for better promotional material without the erratic mouse movement. Hardly a stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: sorry, this reply was apparently a page late.

surfrock22
10-02-2011, 01:28 PM
i think id should just shut up about how good rage looks on pc because it does not.

looks at bulletstorm, crysis 2 and bf3 and then look at rage with baked lighting

The difference is.. RAGE is a game that can easily run at 60 FPS, on PC AND console. Look at all the games running at 60 FPS on console and tell me RAGE doesn't look amazingly better. It's easily the best looking game that runs that fast on the archaic hardware found in the 360 and PS3. I believe John Carmack himself that RAGE is a 60 FPS game, and Doom 4 is a 30 FPS game.

This game was not made to be graphics first. It was supposed to be easily played on many different machines and still look great, which it does.

Doom 4 will end all the ♥♥♥♥♥ing and unleash ID Tech 5's power.

Wigg1es
10-02-2011, 01:44 PM
i think id should just shut up about how good rage looks on pc because it does not.

looks at bulletstorm, crysis 2 and bf3 and then look at rage with baked lighting
Agree to disagree. The art style is a matter of personal taste (which I'm loving), but the panoramic environments and attention to detail blow the hell out of Bulletstorm for sure.

As for Crysis and BF3, stylized versus hyper-realistic is apples and oranges.

RAGE looks better than Bulletstorm, better than Fallout, better than Borderlands by a mile, better than Dead Island, etc. etc. etc.

Wigg1es
10-02-2011, 01:47 PM
It had been Confirmed from DICE. U will Need 2x 580s for ultra.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/news/29507/
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/09/23/battlefield-3-will-need-monster-rig-to-run-on-ultra-settings

Think of running Metro 2033 with 64 ppl running around in maps that are so huge (open) jets dog fight.

The game looks like nothing else .. the only game that comes close is Metro2033 .. but ..2033 is so dark you cant see it .. this you can.
Too bad the gameplay, as it stands in Beta, isn't nearly as well done as the lolgraphics...

surfrock22
10-02-2011, 01:47 PM
RAGE looks better than Bulletstorm, better than Fallout, better than Borderlands by a mile, better than Dead Island, etc. etc. etc.

Completely agreed. No one said RAGE was going to have the best graphics ID Tech 5 is capable of. But it still looks tons better than 90% of the horse♥♥♥♥ released on a daily bases.

HydrantHunter
10-02-2011, 02:01 PM
RAGE looks better than Bulletstorm, better than Fallout, better than Borderlands by a mile, better than Dead Island, etc. etc. etc.
Agreed.

schism84
10-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Comparing Rage to Bulletstorm is fair. Comparing it to Borderlands is semi-fair, but ok. Dead Island and Fallout are completely different beasts though. I do agree it looks like an outstanding game for those who like what it offers.

surfrock22
10-02-2011, 02:08 PM
Comparing Rage to Bulletstorm is fair. Comparing it to Borderlands is semi-fair, but ok. Dead Island and Fallout are completely different beasts though. I do agree it looks like an outstanding game for those who like what it offers.

Eh, they are all a part of the FPS genre. Their technologies are comparable, in many ways.

schism84
10-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Dead Island is not really a FPS, Fallout 3 certainly is not. The gunplay in Fallout is way too horrible to view it as a FPS... It's a RPG with a first person view, through and through.

JK_DC
10-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Agree to disagree. The art style is a matter of personal taste (which I'm loving), but the panoramic environments and attention to detail blow the hell out of Bulletstorm for sure.

As for Crysis and BF3, stylized versus hyper-realistic is apples and oranges.

RAGE looks better than Bulletstorm, better than Fallout, better than Borderlands by a mile, better than Dead Island, etc. etc. etc.

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/7/1/2/6/1/1280Rage_E32011_Dead_City.jpg.jpg

surfrock22
10-02-2011, 03:15 PM
Dead Island is not really a FPS, Fallout 3 certainly is not. The gunplay in Fallout is way too horrible to view it as a FPS... It's a RPG with a first person view, through and through.

Sure they are. They just aren't pure FPSs; it's not so black and white. Whether or not a game is good has nothing to do with its genre classification.

All of those games are comparable in many ways, graphically.

ljbade
10-02-2011, 03:30 PM
There is no law saying you can't play a FPS on pc with a controller. I have a 360 controller on my desk right now. They do make for better promotional material without the erratic mouse movement. Hardly a stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: sorry, this reply was apparently a page late.

I agree. I believe they are using the 360 controller on the PC at 1280x720 for their videos. As for why the HUD doesn't automatically detect you are using a controller I do not know. Most games change HUD when controller is plugged in.

Brandon Spikes
10-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Bulletstorm was ugly, Crysis 2 was visually worse than its older brother and BF3 is a joke, I can't even tell the difference between the console version and the Pc version its that unimpressive.

Rage is visually, one of the best shooters I've seen in my however many years I've been Pc gaming, I lost count after Mechwarrior 2(which is actually not a bad looking game)

Bf3 is in BETA, and if you cant tell the different you're blind, I played it on Xbox 360 and PC@ Ultra, and it looks like a different game.

ljbade
10-02-2011, 11:12 PM
I played it on Xbox 360 and PC@ Ultra, and it looks like a different game.

Ultra does not do anything in the Beta (same quality as high) so when the final game ships with the real Ultra you will blow your load. But you will need 2x NVIDIA 580s to get that at 40FPS (according to the devs). :cool:

Brandon Spikes
10-02-2011, 11:32 PM
Ultra does not do anything in the Beta (same quality as high) so when the final game ships with the real Ultra you will blow your load. But you will need 2x NVIDIA 580s to get that at 40FPS (according to the devs). :cool:

Well, that proves my point, Beta is Beta

veelckoo
10-03-2011, 07:00 AM
Well, that proves my point, Beta is Beta

That proves that you are blind and ignorant - nothing else.

Wigg1es
10-03-2011, 08:58 AM
Well, that proves my point, Beta is Beta

Beta definitely isn't beta when the game is a month from release...

R_Diaz
10-03-2011, 09:47 AM
That level of detail is possible not just because of 'artistic design' - it's possible because idTech 5 can render that level of detail at a reasonable framerate. Don't forget that there will be NO repeating textures thanks to 'megatexture' technology in the idTech 5 engine.

So how is it that idTech 5 is outdated exactly?

Because all the engine does is spitting out textured polygons. With a huge texture, yes, but everything is baked onto it. Even John Carmack has admitted their dynamic lighting implementation is quite primitive. That doesn't mean the game doesn't look good (in fact it looks downright amazing to me). But it's all in the artists' magic. The technology isn't advanced, at all. It's effective (performance wise), but not advanced.

And that said, I prefer efectiveness, and I really like the fact that there's an engine which can make things look so good at sixty frames per second, even if it's all static.

Nickj360
10-03-2011, 09:50 AM
People need to stop with the misinformation. They have shown PC footage. Every single video they have released for this game had PC prompts. Number keys for weapons, E to interact, etc.

The game has been confirmed to have larger textures on PC.

Source: http://www.geforce.com/News/articles/eurogamer-2011-discover-how-rage-takes-advantage-of-your-high-end-gpu

Watch that video. It scales with how much VRam your GPU has.

The game also has mod tools and the interface is different from the console version.

People need to stop hating on id just because they are a multi plat company now. The game is a PC game. It's not a port.

Here is the latest trailer that just came out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSNtIeLxcMg

Notice the PC prompts.

Just wanted to clear some of the lies that were spreading on these forums and others from butt hurt PC gamers who think that ANYTHING that's multi platform is a fail.

Wonder what amount of GPU Vram is optimal for this game. Obviously "more is better" but what is optimal.

Quakeworld TF
10-03-2011, 09:57 AM
I'm not here to call anyone out, far be it for me to insult a man or woman's vision, but for those saying RAGE is visually well-beyond Crysis 2, BF3 or even Bulletstorm are not using their eyes or brains. This game will look good, it will not be blowing anyone away.

m_bisson
10-03-2011, 09:58 AM
I think The Witcher 2 is really pretty. Why are all these other games lagging behind?

R_Diaz
10-03-2011, 10:01 AM
Hmmm... Crysis 2 looked like crap to me, no matter how advanced its engine is... and Bulletstorm might have higher resolution textures, but that's pretty much all about it in the graphics department (even though I think that game looks nice).

I believe a game with nice artistic design looks much better than one with poor design and 4096x4096 textures everywhere...

Nickj360
10-03-2011, 10:15 AM
I think you can blame Jesse Pinkman for that

Breaking Bad reference? Lol